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SPEAKER FORUMS >> ERR /ERRx >> ERR Setup
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Message started by Yama Bushi on 07/20/09 at 02:40:20

Title: ERR Setup
Post by Yama Bushi on 07/20/09 at 02:40:20

Greetings to the EER group. I am new to this forum having just received my ERR's on Friday. Since I have no experience with radial speakers I was wondering if there are any general setup suggestion (distance between speakers, toe in etc)? I am driving my ERRs with a First Watt F5 and B1 combo. Thanks in advance!

Title: Re: ERR Setup
Post by Lon on 07/20/09 at 03:02:32

Welcome!

It all depends on your room. I find in my listening rooms the Radials like to be out in the room. I have them about one third of the way into the room from the back wall and each is about a quarter of the way into the room from the side walls.

In this manner I get great depth and the frequency balance is pretty on target.

Each room I'm sure is different, as well as tonal balance taste. I have mine with no toe in or toe out because I find the RL2s to be a bit hot on the top end for my purposes (with digital at least). Experiment and see what you think.

How do you like them so far? I will have a pair in the future (probably not the near future, seems long waiting time for me!) :)

Title: Re: ERR Setup
Post by Yama Bushi on 07/20/09 at 05:19:51

Lon - Thanks for the reply. So far I really like the ERRs. They take a bit of getting use to as compared to my Magnepan 1.6s. Overall I am very impressed. My listening room is 11X14. I currently have them 1/3 of the way out on 14X side. I am currently playing around with the toe in etc. I am also experimenting with changing the resistors....I think I have settled on the 6 ohm for now.

Title: Re: ERR Setup
Post by Gmad on 07/20/09 at 16:23:21

Funny, my 1.5's are also 1/3 from back wall and spaced just 4 feet apart to give me about a 36 degree listening angle which may seem narrow but it is what works for me with this system. Also I've worked my way down to 18ohm resistors for the tweeters now...

Title: Re: ERR Setup
Post by Lon on 07/20/09 at 16:58:40

Glad you're enjoying them.

Me, I use 100 ohm resistors!

Title: Re: ERR Setup
Post by Gmad on 07/20/09 at 18:21:42

100 ohms wow....with the 1.5's, 18ohm seems to give a balanced response right at the speakers. However, one of the many great things about the radial design is that the sound seems to warms up as you move back towards the listening position. Also the Attraction DAC I use has a warm and natural timbre...

Title: Re: ERR Setup
Post by Lon on 07/21/09 at 15:10:58

Yeah, with any speaker I've had in the last twenty years I've needed to pad down the treble or toe the speakers out. . . the price I pay for listening to digital I've come to believe.

My hearing has NOT been decreased in the high frequency range, and I'm very sensitive to treble grain and glare. I have a very good pair of digital front ends right now that have less of the grain and glare than the ZCD for example, and I'm pretty happy, but I do need the flexibility that the Radials offer to get the frequency balance right for me, and I enjoy the treble dampening circuit that Steve installed in my Torii Mark II and my Integrated, that really lets me get the best sound.

Also I've lived in pier and beam houses the last twenty plus years and I think that's a factor. I'm not one who wants to live in room treatment (and don't want to have a "dedicated listening room"--- I want to live with my system) and so I yam what I yam.

Title: Re: ERR Setup
Post by Gmad on 07/21/09 at 21:32:10

Lon, you sound like a candidate for a non oversampling DAC. Interesting that Steve is currently developing one...

Title: Re: ERR Setup
Post by Lon on 07/21/09 at 23:07:02

I was talking to Bob about that today. Probably won't be getting one right away though unless I sell some of the items on my stockpile. :)

I have one inside the Peachtree Audio "Decco" hybrid integrated amp I have in my bedroom; I run it as a tubed preamp into my Decware Integrated and powering the Peachtree Audio speakers. Quite nice. I've had it in use in the living room system too.

I must say though that the new ES Series Sony SACD player I bought is in fact a superior sounding machine, and does not have a NOS dac within, but does use DSD. It's an amazing player. Better to my ears than the ZCD.

Title: Re: ERR Setup
Post by Yama Bushi on 07/26/09 at 23:40:10

Well after a week of moving the my speakers around in space and time I have finally landed on placing them 4 feet apart just short of the middle of the room. In this configuration it is quite amazing. In 26 + years of HiFi I have never had a pair of speakers simply "vanish" like the ERRs. I am sold this is cool. Now I am looking at the Zen redbook player saying Hmmmmmmm. ;D

Title: Re: ERR Setup
Post by Lon on 07/27/09 at 03:26:34

I'd wait for the Zen DAC.

Title: Re: ERR Setup
Post by Doorman on 07/28/09 at 05:35:07

Lon: If any of your "stockpile" items includes a Decware amp or 2, let me know. I'm looking for another! :)
Don

Title: Re: ERR Setup
Post by Lon on 07/28/09 at 11:34:31

The stockpile contains a set of Decware EL34 Monoblocks, but I'm not sure I'm ready to part with them. . . ..

Title: Re: ERR Setup
Post by Doorman on 07/28/09 at 15:30:48

Lon: Let me know if you do. I may be in the market.(they'd be going to a good home!) :)
Don

Title: Re: ERR Setup
Post by Lon on 07/28/09 at 16:18:34

Will do. Sort of keeping them on hand in case I need them in the future. . .I will probably need a larger house in the future, and my gal is a music lover (yeah!) and I'm going to wnt to be sure we hae nough good stereos! :)

Title: Re: ERR Setup
Post by Lon on 07/30/09 at 16:07:12

In the middle of the room huh? I can't do that unless I dispense with a dining room table, but yeah, I bet they sound good there.

I remember from over a dozen years ago reading about setting up speakers half way into the room and getting really excellent results.

Title: Re: ERR Setup
Post by Yama Bushi on 07/31/09 at 04:04:46

Zen DAC??? I this in the works??? Could be worth the wait.

Title: Re: ERR Setup
Post by Lon on 07/31/09 at 12:19:27

Steve revealed that here:

https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1246245501/0

Title: Re: ERR Setup
Post by Yama Bushi on 08/16/09 at 04:12:54

Ok - so it has been quite some time since I have log on. I am at the point with ERRs where I would like to play around with the resistors and the capacitors to really dial them in, yet I am not sure what I am doing? My assumption is that if my ERRs sound a little "bright" then I need to increase the resistance for each speaker? Any guidance would be much appreciated!

Title: Re: ERR Setup
Post by Lon on 08/16/09 at 16:07:06

I don't have ERR or any experience with them, but I believe yes, the answer is a higher resister leads to "less brightness." The higher ohmage would represent more resistance/restriction of the tweeter output.

Title: Re: ERR Setup
Post by Gmad on 08/16/09 at 23:04:16

my radial 1.5's came with a 5 ohm resistor installed, but I tried a mundorf 18 ohm and found that the balance is better. It may sound a bit warm at first, but that is the nature of the radial design.

Title: Re: ERR Setup
Post by Yama Bushi on 08/20/09 at 05:00:51

Thanks for the advice - my ERRs came with the 3 ohm installed. I am running the 5 ohm's now. This has reduced the "brightness". 18 ohm??? That seems like it huge leap in resistance? Why the Mundorf? Thanks!

Title: Re: ERR Setup
Post by Yama Bushi on 08/20/09 at 05:04:35

Are these the ones you are running?

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=356_86_415&products_id=8423

Title: Re: ERR Setup
Post by Gmad on 08/21/09 at 00:21:51

Yes, those are the ones I use. I chose them because they were closest to the value I thought would work best, Madisound stocks them and has fair shipping charges, and they are supposed to be good quality. However, according to Steve the ERR's are 1db more efficient than the 1.5's so you might want to try 15-16 ohm? The radial design lends itself to a warm tonality so at first it may seem slightly dark, but as your ears adjust and the drivers loosen up you will probably appreciate this approach. This will make for a balanced "direct" sound and a warm "reflected" sound. With omni and dipole type speakers the brain is usually better able to distinguish the direct from the reflected sound if the they are properly set up. Anyway, That's what works for me. --Greg

Title: Re: ERR Setup
Post by Gmad on 08/21/09 at 00:30:26

Fyi: with the radial tweeter, 3ohm -4db, 5ohm -6db, 15ohm -12db.

15-18 ohm would have seemed like a lot to me in the beginning, but just let your speakers break in and your ears/brain adjust.

--Greg

Title: Re: ERR Setup
Post by Yama Bushi on 08/22/09 at 03:06:06

Thanks Greg!!!!

Part are on order, I'll let you know the outcome.

Best regards,

Bill :)

Title: Re: ERR Setup
Post by musgofasa on 08/29/09 at 00:01:43

Good evening!

reading through this post I was thinking how we seemed to like the ERRs set up closer to the center and fairly close together. It really did make them vanish in the room where I got to listen to them.

As for the resistor, my first thought was a 16ohm. The tweeters are crossed over very high so you cutting down the brightness on a low level sound at a gradual slope. It sounds like a lot, but realistically, you could put a 300ohm resistor on them and they could still be listenable. the difference from 3 to 5 ohms probably won't make much difference, but going up to 15, 16, 18, or maybe 24 should be noticeable. Depending on the cap itself, you could hear a difference too. I know Ziggy has his preferences for caps as do I and everyone else. The Mundorf is a good cap and I am betting you like what you get from that. Depending on how much "too bright" you think they are, an email to Bob or Steve might be the best way to get started.

Enjoy your new speakers! I know I can't wait to convert my current office into a listening room!

Take care,
Robert