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Message started by Steve Deckert on 10/16/07 at 01:50:53

Title: ZEN OPEN BAFFLES
Post by Steve Deckert on 10/16/07 at 01:50:53

There is a thread in the speaker builders forum I started some months back regarding an Open Baffle speaker design that is completely unique. I'm just really excited right now with the rather positive results of this project as it enters part II of it's development cycle.

If anyone is interested the articles are here:

PART I - https://www.decware.com/paper92.htm

PART II - https://www.decware.com/paper93.htm

Plans for this speaker will become available at the end of its development cycle.

Steve

Title: Re: ZEN OPEN BAFFLES
Post by Brian on 10/16/07 at 01:55:21

Wonderful! What an exciting speaker!

Title: Re: ZEN OPEN BAFFLES
Post by bo on 11/01/07 at 13:55:39

WOW, just what I’ve been waiting for!

I still have my Select and love it but I fell in love with a friends Alon One’s which are partly open baffle and unfortunately the Select can’t drive them. I have a second amp (15wpc SET) that drives them surprisingly well and use my Parkers with the custom Select. I’m not buying my buddies Alons but will eventually buy ones just like them or something similar.

These sound like something I’ll want to hear.

This is a shot of my new audio den. Theses a big 1080i Panny 50” plasma going up above the fireplace. Its once of the best sounding systems and rooms I’ve had so far.

BTW: To my old friends here, nice too be back. I’ve been busy getting divorced. Who knew how much work it is. Its been the music that’s got me through most of it (and a new GF doesn’t hurt ;-) )

Thanks’ Steve for your consistent efforts to make us happy.

Be good all,
Steve (aka; boead)

Title: Re: ZEN OPEN BAFFLES
Post by Lon on 11/01/07 at 14:59:24

Welcome back Bo!

Title: Re: ZEN OPEN BAFFLES
Post by Gexter on 11/02/07 at 00:43:04

Nice!
boy its nice to have Bo back.
I wuz wondering fer awhile

Title: Re: ZEN OPEN BAFFLES
Post by Hotsauce on 11/02/07 at 02:17:42

Boead:

I might steal an idea I see in your room. The wooden shutters over the window.

John C.

Title: Re: ZEN OPEN BAFFLES
Post by bo on 11/02/07 at 05:01:52

You guys are the best on the web!

Yeah, really got my life back on track. Got back into shape, both in body and mind. Attracting all sorts of beautiful women and found a great one! Wow, life’s exciting again. Well, it was always somewhat exciting but now its very exciting, its amazing what new kitty will do to you after 15 years! Spent a part of the summer on my buddies 34’ sailboat out in Montauk, building a new audio system and getting into TV program producing and editing. I’ve been busy. I might have not been posting but I’ve been checking in now and zen.

John, the shutters work well. Also the walls are thick wood with lots of surface texture, works great for diffusion. The room has no sonex so far and I don’t think it needs much, maybe just some corner bass traps. I always had this big HiDef CRT in-between the speakers which I never liked. Now I have the fireplace which is much better. Now if I just get this damn Panasonic Plasma already!! It’s all ready to go. I hope the fireplace doesn’t F it up.

The amp (a McAlister SE32) is very good. I have a first off model with this new iron peter built and used. He had Paul Candy from 6Moons hear MY amp prior to shipping it to me and Paul was extremely impressed, so much so he bought one from Peter after just a short listen. He’s replacing his Belles 150A’s with it. He also has Peters PL10 preamp which I also own. Wonderful synergy. Its 16wpc using 4 sweep tubes and a pair of 12SN7’s for input, the rest are for the poser supply section that’s unique to Peter, tube rectified. It can EASILY drive the Alons which are rated at 86db. Not bad for 16 watts. Gives a Rogue Stereo90 a good hard run with a fraction of the ‘watts’ ! If the first watt sucks…

Here is a cool article; http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/silverfi2/silverfi.html The photo at the end shows Peter and Paul at Paul’s place.

Still the Decware Select I have is amazing, especially with the Parkers 95sigs. Loads of detail with that signature Decware sound that’s so alluring. I may sell the Custom Select I have (built and voiced by both Ed Vaughn and Steve D.) and the Parkers (built by Zigi), let someone else enjoy them. I like what Steve builds and will certainly buy product from him again. Likely those OB’s when they are done! Just needed a change for a while.

Hey Steve; how about a Zen USB DAC??!! I like my Scott Nixon a lot but something tells me I’d like yours better.

Look forward to hearing from many of you.

Title: Re: ZEN OPEN BAFFLES
Post by Brian on 11/02/07 at 16:24:25

That's a handsome den Bo.
Best wishes for your personal life. I hate for anyone to have troubles.

Title: Re: ZEN OPEN BAFFLES
Post by fintail66 on 11/14/07 at 22:42:01

Dear Mr. Decker,

I am new to this forum, motivated to join it by your fascinating Zen open baffle essays... I love the open baffle sound, and I think your remedy for their main deficiency is brilliant. I am eager to build some version of your design, but imagine that the precise details - particularly the design of the resonator throat and its associated capacitor - are critical.

Could you reveal a little more detail about these elements of the design?

I would like to build a workhorse version of your design with interchangeable baffles for 6", 8", 10" and (perhaps even 12") drivers using spruce tonewood for the resonant cavity. I am building a collection of field coil full-range drivers that I would like to test in this device, both as a learning experience, and to find a speaker for my mono system that I can settle down with for the long term.

Thank you for sharing the fruits of your fascinating labors,

Sincerely,

Aron Branscomb

Title: Re: ZEN OPEN BAFFLES
Post by paulc on 11/14/07 at 23:07:19

Welcome Aron.

I have listened to many of the currently popular OB speakers and own a set. After hearing the Zen Open Baffles, I feel Mr. Deckert may need to visit the patent office.

dennis

Title: Re: ZEN OPEN BAFFLES
Post by darkelf on 11/14/07 at 23:24:19

fintail66 wrote on 11/14/07 at 22:42:01:

Mis-quote: We don't need no stinking cap.Scotty
Mark me down for the 2nd set of open baffle speakers
you build (Decware).[1]
I am not sure but I just measured the low end
of the music room and I seem to have 50 to 70 Hz
peaking.[2]In my case a low bass level may be a good
thing.The open baffle looks like a killer design[3]
better than other lowish cost speakers.
I just hope it is not more than 14 1/2 inches wide
as that is all the room I have for speakers in my apartment.

[1]I am tempted to cancel my NFX order
and just wait for the Open Baffle.Of course the 1st
set is Decware's working protypes.
[2] I can't tell if it room bounce or too big a box for my speakers.
[3] Everything is bookcase speakers it seems
on the market about 120HZ+. (Fostex drivers)

Title: Re: ZEN OPEN BAFFLES
Post by Yoda on 11/14/07 at 23:59:34

I've been following this one and am looking forward to its refinement and permutations. One thought I have been wondering about is using 2 drivers in the panel - a DFR-8 and a higher Qts bass specific driver (on a separate amp) w/ resonator similar to this design to extend the lower range. Of course, there goes the beauty of the single full range....

Its hard to tear apart my system now that it sounds so good w/ the HDT's that I'm still playing with!

Title: Re: ZEN OPEN BAFFLES
Post by opnly_bafld on 11/15/07 at 00:40:20

Yoda wrote on 11/14/07 at 23:59:34:

IMO the beauty of this design is that it opens up many options for supplementing the bass since it plays so low on its own.
A separate small baffle (or 2) with a high qts bass driver can be used or if you already have a good musical sub you can use it.
Stereo or mono can be a matter of personal choice instead of necessity because the "bass helper" drivers have to play so high.

These speakers do everything you expect from a single driver speaker and from an open baffle speaker,
the only problem is they do something you don't expect from a single driver open baffle speaker,
they have decent bass. ;)

Lin

Title: Re: ZEN OPEN BAFFLES
Post by darkelf on 11/15/07 at 01:50:51

opnly_bafld wrote on 11/15/07 at 00:40:20:

These speakers do everything you expect from a single driver speaker and from an open baffle speaker,
the only problem is they do something you don't expect from a single driver open baffle speaker,
they have decent bass. ;)

Lin

I rather think of decware's speakers as speakers done right.
In my quest for Hi-Fi stereo I am finding out how BAD speakers
can be or should I say were. The only two places that discuss
quality audio is here and Nutshell High Fidelity. Both places are
people that build speakers and don't lie like used car salesmen
when it comes to what their speakers do or don't do.
I am not sure just what real BASS is, but it has to be better than AM radio and that is around as guess 100Hz to 4Khz.

Title: Re: ZEN OPEN BAFFLES
Post by Brian on 11/16/07 at 00:15:36

Darkelf,
The acoustic capacitor is explained in paper 92.

Title: Re: ZEN OPEN BAFFLES
Post by Jet-Lee on 11/16/07 at 14:03:54

I'm anxious for plans.

Title: Re: ZEN OPEN BAFFLES
Post by Steve Deckert on 02/23/08 at 16:56:20

An update is in order:

Since my last posts I have had some rather incredible listening sessions. The last one was with the new Zen Triode Monoblocks and left a memorable impression. Since then I have not listened to them. The plan being to let the proud papa syndrome wear off and jump back into it in 6 months to see if I still like them as much. That means I'll be listening to them again this Spring and making any final design decisions then. Don't want to put out the plans until I know for sure there will be no more changes.

Steve

Title: Re: ZEN OPEN BAFFLES
Post by Steve Deckert on 03/01/08 at 06:16:20

Well, the proud papa syndrome did in fact wear off and I took a Neal Diamond CD that had absolutely no bass and hooked up the speakers and decided for sure at that moment that by themselves without a sub or broadcast system that these will not fly. Of course they were never intended to, however because they sound so damn good on top drawer analogue recordings, they fool you into an infatuated state of total acceptance.

So, what I am going to do, ... stuck my ear back on the port of the resonant cavity and listened to the cleanest and richest bass and went right back to square one - we have to get the sound inside this box out into the room, just that simple. It's just too good, it has to be heard.

Back to the broadcast system. Tonight I spent some time assembling the broadcast system using HDT's as the broadcast speakers. I made a critical discovery about how to specifically incorporate the microphones and one channel at a time I got the system on line.

All I can say is: un- f#cking believable.

There are things happening hear that so far surpass not only the frequency balance but also imaging of any box speaker that I'm going to have to pull my Acoustats down and have an A/B comparison - it's that good. At this point I am firmly convinced that this could become the flagship set up of all time only comparable to my personal pair of Acoustats. The holographic imaging is insane, far better than the acoustats because I can walk all around the room, sit or stand, and the music just sounds real - no speakers present at all. Imaging doesn't flinch. The bass and midbase and midrange is simply in ground breaking territory. Biggest sound stage, most holographic to date. As good as everything I have is, this is clearly creaming all of it.

So, I'm back on it. Back to the original design intent -as it should be - and I'll let you know when I've completed it in a way that can be easily replicated or purchased. There will be plans, and there will be turn-key product.

Steve :)

Title: Re: ZEN OPEN BAFFLES
Post by opnly_bafld on 03/01/08 at 14:04:21

8-)
Let us know when it is ready for an audition!

Thanks,
Lin

Title: Re: ZEN OPEN BAFFLES
Post by Steve Deckert on 03/02/08 at 04:45:03

Well, consider this - the broadcast electronics are all solid state and nothing to get excited about - to be replaced with tubes. However, for the concept to be valid it should work even with this sub par set up - and it does.

It's night two, and I made a critical discovery about imaging / an epiphany that has gelled at least 10 years of pondering - have to write a paper now...

Anyway, night two and all I can say is OMG!

Steve [smiley=icqlite14.png]

Title: Re: ZEN OPEN BAFFLES PART III
Post by Steve Deckert on 04/01/08 at 02:47:21

Here is a link to part III of the Zen Open Baffle Project:

https://www.decware.com/paper94.htm

ZOBA !

Title: Re: ZEN OPEN BAFFLES
Post by kbsp on 04/01/08 at 10:36:03

Hi Steve,

What about using the DFR-65 instead of the DFR-8?

Title: Re: ZEN OPEN BAFFLES
Post by 60_and_up on 04/01/08 at 18:24:59

4 speakers, 4 channel amp, 2 x so,imps, a mic ......

when you get time steve, can you design and build an sq 'boombox' battery operated.

for us folk that like things simple.

please. :)

Title: Re: ZEN OPEN BAFFLES
Post by musgofasa on 04/02/08 at 12:56:25

Hey Steve,

I see that the speaker chosen for the broadcast side is the HDT. I also see you have it reproducing most of a signal. Have you tried just using the HDT or HDT 2 cab with the driver only and not the tweeter or the full range DFR8 or did you use the full range version? Either way, do you think one might be better than the other?

I am building a set of HDTIIs now and wondering what it might be like to build the ZOBs and add the 4 channel amp/ mic etc later on. Sounds like "reference" could be the word for it by the time it is done.

Keep us posted.

Robert

Title: Re: ZEN OPEN BAFFLES
Post by Steve Deckert on 04/02/08 at 23:43:48

Robert,

It remains to be seen which one will be chosen based on further listening tests. I have been using the HDT MK II's so far for the evaluation. It will indeed be interesting to see which I prefer. The HDT's would have the same drivers as used in the ZOB. You would assume that the HDT would likely be the choice and it probably will, however the warmth of the MK II's could be complimenting the ZOB so we shall see.

As for the top end response, on the MK II the tweeter was left hooked up, and sound does come out of it, although you have to listen for it at close range to tell it's even on. Nevertheless I have learned that very quiet things in the music can be the turning point in it's presentation so I'm not quick to unhook the tweeters and anxious to try the HDT's.

Title: Re: ZEN OPEN BAFFLES
Post by gexter on 04/03/08 at 02:51:03

I have not been around all that much but I always have my thread favs that I have to stop by and read. the Decware OB's were exciting from the start and after reading the paper the excitement continues.

Well off to re read it

Thanks Steve.

Title: Re: ZEN OPEN BAFFLES
Post by musgofasa on 04/03/08 at 12:53:00

That's kinda what I expected Steve,

Conosidering the design goals, I expected the HDT MKIIs to be the better compliment becuase of the fact that most reviews seem to say they are more forgiving. Add that to the "air" that the tweeters you use seem to add to everything I have heard them on, I would think they would work best full range. I can picture myself with three sets of different HDT cabs doing marathon listening sessions and swapping out cabs to see what worked best.

Keep us posted on the results and can't wait for part IV~!

Hey gex!

Take care,
Robert