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OLDER DECWARE GEAR SUPPORT >> The ZEN TABOO >> taboo tubes but ehh
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Message started by kyrill on 01/29/08 at 15:06:40

Title: taboo tubes but ehh
Post by kyrill on 01/29/08 at 15:06:40

hi

I read in the TABOO websiteunder "TUBES:" https://www.decware.com/newsite/TABOO.htm The input tube is a single
6N1P,
6922
6DJ8 (ECC88, E188CC, E288CC, 6922, CV2493, CV2492, 7308, CCa, 6H23)
- your choice. 6N1P's have the warmest tone, 6922's have the best dynamics, 6DJ8's have the most air and micro-detail with a touch less bass. Again, a powerful tool for voicing your amplifier to your particular tastes.

Above family around the 6dj8 are interchangeable

but above that paragraph of the TABOO is this message:
Signal tube 12AX7 or 12AT7 or 12AU7

But this is a different family, not compatible with the above?

I am a bit confused..

Title: Re: taboo tubes but ehh
Post by DaveCan on 01/29/08 at 17:00:36

Perhaps its a mistake and the info got mixed up with the other amps? My Taboo didn't get shipped with a NOS SV83 and also didn't come with a 5U4G rectifier.. Seeings how the Taboo was designed around the 5Y3, I doubt it comes shipped now with the 5U4G as it seems in the info, probably things got mixed up with the info for the other amps.. Dave :)

Title: Re: taboo tubes but ehh
Post by Scotty on 01/29/08 at 19:55:39

I don't have one, but I'm certain this info from the owner's manual https://www.decware.com/newsite/SE84TSowners%20manual.pdf is correct:

The SE84TS is designed to use your choice of
three different input (or signal) tubes.
12AX7 - Most Gain
12AT7 - Medium Gain
12AU7 - Low Gain
Each of these tubes will lend a different signature
to the overall sound of the amplifier. If
you are using a standard 2 volt source like a CD
player with NO preamp, you will probably find
the 12AU7 to have not enough gain. With a
preamp, it could become your favorite tube.

The SE84TS is designed around the 5Y3GT rectifier
tube. It is however, compatible with the
following alternatives - each having a subtle effect
on the overall sound characteristics of the
amp.
◊ 5U4
◊ 5AR4
◊ GZ34
◊ 274B
The different ratings and efficiencies of these
rectifiers will effect the operating voltage points
throughout the amplifier which is why they can
have an effect on the sound. You will find that
even different brands of the same tube will
sound different. This is true with any vacuum
tube.

Hope that helps.

Title: Re: taboo tubes but ehh
Post by Steve Deckert on 01/29/08 at 23:06:34

Ironically, I stumbled on this very misprint yesterday before seeing this thread... I have corrected the web page to reflect the correct tube compliment.

I've been shipping the Taboo's with some premium NOS Russian 6P14P-EV output tubes (EL84) and the JJ 12AX7 with a Sovtek 5Y3GT

Sorry about that!

Steve

Title: Re: taboo tubes but ehh
Post by kyrill on 01/29/08 at 23:24:31

I lost my confusion
:D

Title: Re: taboo tubes but ehh
Post by DaveCan on 01/29/08 at 23:38:45

Just took a look at the Taboo page, and the info is still wrong as of this post... Dave :)

Title: Re: taboo tubes but ehh
Post by gni on 02/01/08 at 02:32:43

I have been researching the Taboo amplifier for some time now and had
concluded that the Taboo was able to bridge mono:

The following is the statement
taken from:https://www.decware.com/newsite/mainmenu.htm?/newsite/TABOO.htm&intro

If you own speakers that you love and are afraid this may not drive them understand two things: A) It will drive them louder then you're expecting and B) you can bridge these amps into mono blocks. Because of the power increase into lower ohms, you will net 6dB of additional power. Same thing as doubling your power... twice.

Does this mean that the Taboo will bridge mono to a 24 watt mono amplifier? I read in the owners manual
that the Taboo isn't designed to be bridged." I just wasn't sure why the statement about bridging mono is
is in the web while the owners manual say the opposite!

Title: Re: taboo tubes but ehh
Post by DaveCan on 02/01/08 at 03:33:44

gni wrote on 02/01/08 at 02:32:43:

I believe that statement is part of what would be correct for the Zen and Select amp models and got mixed up with the info for the Taboo. Same thing with the ''Tubes'' section, not the correct info still ,and also it says it comes with a 5U4 etc.....

I'm using my Taboo with 90db drivers and a cd player that puts out 2volts, and it gets loud enough for my listening habits... I totally can back up the statement about out of body experiences when late night listening, or even day time listening for that matter, its just an excellent amp and I'm proud to have one. Dave :)

Title: Re: taboo tubes but ehh
Post by kyrill on 02/01/08 at 08:38:04

yes tha Taboo is a world class amp
i have one too, so i wondered about the "new"tube possibilities

but i am getting old, must be. I bought a NOS
5755 RAYTHEON ( input/driver) TUBE and now wonder why as the taboo is the only tube amp i have... [smiley=gasp.gif]

Title: Re: taboo tubes but ehh
Post by DaveCan on 02/01/08 at 18:40:00

I've used an nos RCA 5965 (12AV7) with excellent results in my Taboo, and lately using a new issue Tung Sol 12AX7.. I can't answer about the 5755 so hopefully Steve or someone will chime in soon for ya... Dave :)

Title: Re: taboo tubes but ehh
Post by Steve Deckert on 02/01/08 at 23:35:19

Woops, [smiley=simp48.gif]

Missprint. The page has been corrected now. Thanks for finding it!

Steve

Title: Re: taboo tubes but ehh
Post by Steve Deckert on 02/01/08 at 23:36:18

BTW,

Welcome to the forums Gni!!

Steve

Title: Re: taboo tubes but ehh
Post by gni on 07/11/08 at 04:54:12

Thank you Steve. . .look forward to a purchase in the next two years.
Still dealing with the "wife factor." Every two weeks I take a fresh
look into tube amplifier and always come back to Decware. . . something
in my gut says that these amps are honest and not overstated. I'm still
not 100% decided on the SE84TS or the SE34I.2. . .

Title: Re: taboo tubes but ehh
Post by gni on 07/31/08 at 05:51:27

I've been checking out the new web page. . .looks great. . .

BUT,

The Taboo page still states in one location that is can use 6N1P tubes:

TUBES:

This amp is shipped with graded premium quality N.O.S. 6P15P-EV output tubes rated at 5000 hours. These Russian military spec tubes are the top grade of what we came to know in this country as the SV83. You can also use EL84's without adjustments of any kind. You'll find the SV83's to be unparallel in speed and detail - in part because it is a video tube with much wider bandwidth then a normal audio tube. We think these are the best sounding most transparent tubes available today. The EL84 (6BQ5) is a bit warmer sounding giving the amp a different signature by just switching output tubes.

The input tube is a single 6N1P, 6922 or 6DJ8 - your choice. 6N1P's have the warmest tone, 6922's have the best dynamics, 6DJ8's have the most air and micro-detail with a touch less bass. Again, a powerful tool for voicing your amplifier to your particular tastes.

The rectifier is a 5U4G and can be substituted with a 5AR4 or compatible rectifier. Many owners of this amp like using the 274B. Each rectifier change will also make audible differences in the sound and performance of the amplifier.

I would like to see the Taboo with a 6N1P front end. . . .I think it would
be a great amp. . .and since most of the Decware amps start off with
the 6N1P is would seem logical. Is there a way to convert the Taboo
to a 6N1P or is Steve going to make an update to the Taboo?

The Taboo uses the 12AX7 family of tubes simply because the extra gain of a 12AX7 is required when running the amp directly from a CD player (2 volt source). When running a preamp, or a DAC with higher output, the 12AT7 and 12AU7 make for better balance.

The Taboo really shines with a good preamp that boosts the signal up to about 4 volts. The power and the weight of the amp is stunning at that point.

A 6N1P would be equivalent to the 12AU7, however being a different family of tubes the pins are wired differently so it won't work in a stock Taboo.

I have made taboo's work with the 6N1P family of tubes for certain customers who were driving it with a preamp. It's just a matter of re-wiring the heater pins - no other parts change.

Steve

Title: Re: taboo tubes but ehh
Post by kyrill on 07/31/08 at 09:17:38

is the 12xx family really less sounding than the 6xx series?
There are world famous amps with the 12xx as inputters ;)

Title: Re: taboo tubes but ehh
Post by gni on 10/24/08 at 05:21:08

I think I'm getting caught up in specs instead
of listening. The 12AX7 can be a good clean
preamp or phase splitter. The Taboo is
still in the running.

Title: Re: taboo tubes but ehh
Post by Steve Deckert on 10/25/08 at 01:08:28

For what it's worth, I have over the years built so many amplifiers that I have realized you can make almost any tube sound simply stunning based on how you design and voice the amplifier. Since that time I don't get caught up in the current of "what's the best sounding tube" because I understand there isn't one. The same tube will sound different in every single amplifier so it's really the amplifier that is responsible for making the tube sound great, not the other way around.

Steve

Title: Re: taboo tubes but ehh
Post by gni on 10/26/08 at 03:33:22

Steve,

Thank you for that reply. I am learning!

Chris

Title: Re: taboo tubes but ehh
Post by Jeff on 11/11/08 at 21:52:44

i just got an original Taboo and I'm running a CSP1 in front of it.
i was coming from all solid state stuff. adcom gfa-1a power amp and NAD1020B preamp. cd player is an old NAD a 530 maybe, i forget exactly, it's old. doesn't even have a remote sensor but I like the sound of it ok.

ok, the speakers are some one pi speakers i got used, they are spec'd at 95db but i put a 1ohm resistor in series in the tweeter to pad it down just a bit. i thought this made the speakers pretty balanced and made this change before i got the taboo but while i had the csp1 hooked up to the adcom.

after adding the Taboo to the CSP1, the sound is much more 3dimensional, soundstage is bigger and i like the overall presentation much better. mids sound way better, much more open and the bass sounds better controlled. one thing that i can't really describe is how everything sounds so clean and clear, maybe it's what everyone describes as airy, the idea in my mind is kinda like a perfect darkness or vacuum around the music so it gets all of your attention.

I was worried about 6 watts not being enough and i thought for a while that it wasn't.
it was loud enough but i would've liked to still have a bit more volume.
sound though was very nice. clean and detailed. i was hearing little things from the recording i've never really noticed before. this was with the 6p15pev tubes. the note the seller put in that bag was that they had 50hours.
rectifier was Mullard 5u4g and driver tube was either a 12at7 or 12au7 by Mullard as well.
in the csp1 i had EH6922 in output sections and 6n1p in driver position with Philco 5u4g rect.

so i decided to swap a few tubes. i put a philco 5y3g in the rectifier position of the csp and then i swapped some tungsram el84 tubes into the Taboo.

there it was...all the volume i wanted with no clipping. just a bit more bass but a little less detail just like Steve describes in the taboo notes. the SV83 were almost to that volume. one which i won't play very often but the el84 got there.

overall i like the EL84 better but i'm wondering if i should swap some different SV83 in there to see if maybe they have a little more output than the sv83 that started clipping...i do have a new (sovtek i think) Cryoset of sv83...still in the shrinkwrapped package...

overall i'm real happy with the sound of my stereo now.

oh yeah, the cd i was playing was Bob Dylan- Time Out of Mind which is actually a pretty nice recording.

only problem now is i was using the phono amp in the NAD 1020B preamp...now i need a phono amp.

Steve, do you have any plans to release a phono kit in the near future???

Title: Re: taboo tubes but ehh
Post by Steve Deckert on 11/12/08 at 02:22:02

Ironically I am planning to offer at least part of our ZP3 phono stage as a kit in the next couple months or sooner if time allows.

Steve

Title: Re: taboo tubes but ehh
Post by Jeff on 11/12/08 at 16:42:51

that sounds great Steve, just what i need ;)

Title: Re: taboo tubes but ehh
Post by Jeff on 12/02/08 at 17:24:18

i've rolled some of the tubes in the taboo and the csp more.

i switched out the driver tube in the taboo, had a mullard 12au7 in there which i really liked.
put a telefunken 12au7 in, mids got a little nicer while i lost some bass extension is seemed. put the mullard back in after a few days.
last night i swapped in a siemens ecc81 (12at7) that i got for real cheap off ebay in the box, that one sounds good, i think it images a little better than the mullard. i'll leave that in for a bit. noticed last night the mullard is a long plate version with the "D" getter...

i tried swapping in an rca 5v4 in the taboo (mullard 5u4g was in there), took it out after a few minutes as the bass went away some and it sounded real bright, i like that mullard.

after a while last night in the csp i replaced the philco 5y3g for a sylvania 5u4g with long black plates...just like steve said. more dynamic, i got more bass and really really like the way kick drums sound now, really impressive for just 6watts.
the other tubes in the csp right now are some old (tesla i think) that are labeled siemens.

i have some mazda el84 tubes to try in the taboo as well, got a quad of them.
i tried some nos Ei (yugoslavia) tubes and even though they were real cheap ($8 each or somthing) they too sound pretty good.
the driver tubes and the rectifier seem to make the most difference.