Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
Decware Audio Forums
05/19/19 at 15:32:26†


       



Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
Amp Impedance and speaker matching (Read 903 times)
sophie999
Verified Member
**




Posts: 7
Amp Impedance and speaker matching
02/16/19 at 02:02:34
 
Greetings,

I have Torii MK 4. Initially, I have asked for it to be wired at 4-8 Ohms.
Now, I am considering buying Spatial Triode speakers rated at 12 Ohms.
If I pull the trigger, what should I do? Use as is, send amp back and pay for rewiring to 8-16 Ohms, or use some other way of connecting it?

I am just trying to make sure nothing gets damaged/burned in the process.
Any ideas/suggestions?

Thanks much
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Donnie
Seasoned Member
****


Why does it hurt
when I pee?

Posts: 1314
Re: Amp Impedance and speaker matching
Reply #1 - 02/16/19 at 03:23:19
 
Why not just buy their regular model, the non Triode version?
Back to top
 
 

Owner of the infamous RED TORII
  IP Logged
Jeff of Arabica
Seasoned Member
****


Name the greatest of
all inventors...
Accident.

Posts: 800
Re: Amp Impedance and speaker matching
Reply #2 - 02/16/19 at 06:03:53
 
A difficult decision for sure. †

First off, have you heard these speakers? †If not, I would be hesitant to spend cash on reconfiguring your Torii. †Reason being is you have no idea if you will like the sound "personality" of these speakers. †I am intrigued by the fact that they created this "Triode" model to pair with tube amplifiers. †They could be a match made in heaven with the Torii. †But just like speakers aren't speakers, tube amps aren't tube amps so I would inquire about what tube amp they used to voice these Triode lines of speakers. †You can then compare that amp to your Torii and get a better sense of whether or not they will likely gel. †

I am all about speaker/amp matching and if that means sending the amp back to get the impedance reset to the 8/16 ohm taps to best match a particular speaker, then make it happen. †So, the real questions remain, how much do you know about this speaker manufacturer, their house sound, and the likelihood that they will mate well with the Decware Torii? †

Again, I am intrigued that they took the effort to design a speaker around tube amps. †I think that is pretty cool - even though I have no idea what benefit(s) that actually brings to the table beyond just sheer marketing fluff. †I do know that I have run several speaker types on my Torii MKIV at 4 and 8 ohms and have been beyond satisfied. †

The overall sound signature you prefer is what matters most, so regardless of this Triode, purpose-built speaker system and all that is it does to match with a tube amplifier, it may end up having a sound that just doesn't do it for you. †....or it can blow your mind. †That is the crappy thing about this situation. †You really won't know until you connect them to your unique system, in your unique room, and listen to them with your unique ears. †

If they have some type of return policy, I would get them, run them at 8 ohms just to get a sense of their sound signature. †If it is within your spectrum of aural pleasure, then send off the Torii and get it reconfigured to 8/16 ohms taps to better match the speakers for the potential to achieve greater sound quality.
Back to top
 
 

ZMA//Zen Ultra//Rachel//Super Zen//Taboo MKIII//PS Audio DirectStream DAC + Memory Player + P10//Muse Phono Stage//London Decca Reference//Dynavector DV-507 MKII//Zen Head//SonoruS Reel-to-Reel w/ tube playback pre-amp//Omega SAHOs//DM946//Oppo UDP-205
  IP Logged
sophie999
Verified Member
**




Posts: 7
Re: Amp Impedance and speaker matching
Reply #3 - 02/16/19 at 14:15:29
 
Jeff,

Thanks for the reply.

I guess another another question I was trying to get answered is this:
Will 4/8 Ohm amp paired with 12 Ohm speakers result in potential damage to the speakers or the amp?

I realize theoretically it should be easier for amp to drive higher impedance speakers as the current demand is lower, but before I try to listen to the combo, I want to make sure nothing is going to get literally fried/damaged.

Thanks
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
4krow
Seasoned Member
****


IMAGINE WHIRLLED
PEAS

Posts: 1120
Re: Amp Impedance and speaker matching
Reply #4 - 02/16/19 at 14:51:32
 
In a word, no. i have done it more than a few times.
Back to top
 
 

Decware 34I.3 integrated amp/Forte' 3 bass amp/Velodyne SMS-1 bass mngmnt system/Decware ZOB speakers/Audio Nirvana 8" bass drivers/Xiang Seng DAC/ LR Audio Computer/Rega Apollo R CDP/Emotiva ERC3 CDP/BPT 3.0 power cond.
  IP Logged
Jeff of Arabica
Seasoned Member
****


Name the greatest of
all inventors...
Accident.

Posts: 800
Re: Amp Impedance and speaker matching
Reply #5 - 02/16/19 at 15:05:23
 
Running those 12 ohm Spatial Triodes will absolutely NOT damage your amp.  And to be honest, they may better match the 4/8 ohm taps on your Torii than if you replaced them with the 8/16 taps.  The impedance fluctuates at various frequencies.  So a speaker is never really just 12 ohm, or 8 ohm, etc.  Speaker and amp pairing is not an exact science and there is no substitute for hooking them up and letting your ears make the call.
Back to top
 
 

ZMA//Zen Ultra//Rachel//Super Zen//Taboo MKIII//PS Audio DirectStream DAC + Memory Player + P10//Muse Phono Stage//London Decca Reference//Dynavector DV-507 MKII//Zen Head//SonoruS Reel-to-Reel w/ tube playback pre-amp//Omega SAHOs//DM946//Oppo UDP-205
  IP Logged
sophie999
Verified Member
**




Posts: 7
Re: Amp Impedance and speaker matching
Reply #6 - 02/16/19 at 15:29:18
 
Thanks everyone for replies. I got the answer I was looking for.

"Why not try their regular non-triode version"?
I may well do so. But I am looking for possible deal on used gear as well. If a triode version comes up for sale locally, I would consider it as well, as long as I know it is safe to run. That is why I asked the question.

Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
orangecrush
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 274
Re: Amp Impedance and speaker matching
Reply #7 - 02/19/19 at 18:27:31
 
I have 16ohm Zu Superflys. I had my Torri mk3 built with 8 and 16 ohm taps. They both sound really good. No need to worry. There is a difference, but it can be easily addressed via tube rolling. Tube rolling makes much more of an impact the the impedance switch.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
MMac
Verified Member
**




Posts: 8
Re: Amp Impedance and speaker matching
Reply #8 - 02/28/19 at 18:38:05
 
Hi Orangecrush,

Do you feel your zu superflys need the power of the torriÖ I have zu soul supremes and have considerd the 25th anniversary amp.  I know there is another thread discussing this, but I was wondering what you opinion is.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
orangecrush
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 274
Re: Amp Impedance and speaker matching
Reply #9 - 03/12/19 at 06:15:49
 
Hard to say. I usually like to listen at 70 to 80db and that means a touch over a quarter of the stepped volume knob. †

I wanted to buy a "lifetime amp" when I purchased the Torii and so having the extra headroom was important.  I am still happy with the Torii, in fact now more then ever as it pairs so nicely with my newish ANK DAC 4.1 LE (NOS, Voltage regulated, tube output stage, no digital filters, C-Core transformer output with very low impedance of 13 ohm. The Torii seems to love this.

IMO, the ZUs benefit greatly from the treble and bass controls on the Torii. They can be too forward and just too much in "some" rooms. †I love the ZUs best in a near field listening triangle possible (currently my room allows for 8ft) and an aggressive toe in pointing directly at the listener.  Thatís when I get the best transparency, tone and intimacy. †With the speakers out about three feet from the wall, I can turn the bass controls all the way up, and back off quite a bit on the treble knobs. With 0D3ís the bass is absolutely perfect and the mid range and highs beautifully clear.

I can listen to this combo for hours and never get listening fatigue.

I am sure 2 watts will drive the Zu's with no problem, but canít comment on the synergy as I have only used the ZUs with the Torii. While I would love to hear the new stuff Steve is making, it won't happen, as I live too far away!
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Cuff
Verified Member
**




Posts: 10
Re: Amp Impedance and speaker matching
Reply #10 - 03/18/19 at 01:28:14
 
Sophie, I don't know if you've pulled the trigger on the Spatials yet, but I just saw this thread and wanted to share my experience. I have a pair of the Spatial Hologram M3 Turbo S speakers (not the newer Triode Masters). They're rated at 4 ohms, but have been reported to have a couple of 100-ohm peaks, one at 30 Hz and another around the 1-2 kHz range (see this thread - https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=149584.140). I have the M3s paired with a Decware SE34I.5. Overall I'm happy with this combo, especially after tweaking things via tube rolling. However, my listening room is large enough that I wondered what more watts might give me.

Last fall I snagged a used Torii MkIV with the 4-8 ohm taps. To my surprise, the Torii-Spatial M3 combo was utterly disappointing. It sounded like an AM radio--weak bass and thin in the midrange. Since the speakers sound good with the SE34I.5, I gave Steve Deckert a call to get his thoughts. He doesn't have first-hand experience with Spatial speakers, but he indicated that it may just be a bad pairing, and said that the Zen triode amps are better at handling challenging loads. I didn't find the AudioCircle thread that I linked above until weeks later, but the location of the spikes in the graph in that thread correspond with the frequencies at which the Spatials sound anemic with the Torii.

I opted to try a different pair of speakers with the Torii rather than springing for the upgrade to the Spatial Triode Masters. I've tried Zu Omen Dirty Weekends (12 ohms) and Decware DM945s (6 ohms) with both of my Decware amps, and they both sound great considering the $1,000 price point of these speakers. For now, I'm keeping the SE34I.5 in my main listening room with the Spatials and the Torii in a second system with the DM945s. At some point I may replace the Spatials with something else, but open baffles sound better in my main room than any conventional speaker I've tried. YMMV--I'm dealing with some acoustical challenges in that room that are fairly unusual due to the architecture of the house.

Given that you already have a Torii and just need to find a set of speakers that are a good match for that amp, I'd stay away from the Spatial M3s, especially if you're buying used and will not be able to evaluate or return them. I'm not knocking Spatial speakers or the Torii at all. I'm happy with both the speakers and the amp--just not in the same system. Wink

Dave
Back to top
 
 

RPi/DigiOne/Volumio>Schiit Gungnir MB>Schiit Freya>Decware SE34I.5>Spatial Hologram M3 Turbo S & Rythmik F25 sub
  IP Logged
Pages: 1
Send Topic Print