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Would like to Start a Discussion & Hear Thoughts (Read 455 times)
ScottNC
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Would like to Start a Discussion & Hear Thoughts
01/10/19 at 19:51:18
 
Ahhh...
 Well to begin, there is nothing so satisfying as getting a phone call from Sarah telling you that one of your orders is built and ready to ship!
 My 25th modded ZROCK2 shipped yesterday, my Torii MKIV is at the Mothership getting modded and my ZTPRE is only 10 units away from hitting the bench, and my ZLC is too far down the list to count, things are popping at DecWare High Fidelity Engineering Company!!
 Last Friday I had the pleasure of receiving hernia surgery so after a few days of moaning and pain pills I have had the chance to just sit and contemplate my next moves in my system. I continue to get more and more attached to my DNA2's, I worked in some home brew isolation bases for them and am liking the results even through the temporary Sony HAP1s (actually really glad I have it at this point). I'm very satisfied with my Small Green Computer sonicTransport i7, ultraRendo & MyTek Brooklyn DAC+, the Woo Audio WA6 with Sennheiser HD660s serves it's purpose well, although at some point I can see a Taboo MKIV w/25th working in there, with some upgrade Headphones.
 So all that brings me to thinking about adding a turntable, cartridge, phono amp, and then starting all over collecting, rather expensive, vinyl. I know I would enjoy doing that although I just can't get my head wrapped around what the cost of having even a rather modest collection would be. It seems that digital media and gear just keeps getting better and I think purchasing CD Masters etc to rip (since I already have a great transport in the sonic) makes more sense than throwing what I'm sure would be more than $5k in a table and cart etc.
 My next option is moving to a ZMA 25th, but I just really think with the ZROCK, ZBIT and ZTPRE I'll get what I want as far as weight and power for the DNA2's. That I don't want to see happen unless I absolutely have to, would be pretty costly to move from the MKIV.
 That brings me to...trying to figure out a way to add a Sub or more likely pair of Subs, to get me to that "Holy Shit that is Amazing!" factor I'm truly after. I don't want to muck-up the system, but surely there is a way to accomplish this without doing that. My thoughts are powered subs, it would seem to take a bit of demand off the MKIV while giving me the chest thumping that I occasionally crave and still maintain the amazing sound of all this amazing DecWare gear in synergy.
 Am I fooling myself to think I might be able to pull this off? How exactly do I go about driving these things, off the MKIV, off the DNA2's, or the ZTPRE, can't quite get it into my head at this point and I'm sure some of you guys have the answer or answers about how to best accomplish it.
 I'm open to being shot down, schooled, advised and whatever else you can throw my way to see if I can find a good direction to head. I know with all the years of experimenting and changing and evolving so many of this community has done I'll certainly gain way more than I can research out (which is constant) in any reasonable amount of time.
 Right now to my head, today at least the subs seem like the most reasonable, obtainable, affordable solution, but then my head goes through more changes than the weather does so who knows?
 Thanks if you even made it through the rambling and many more if you care to share thoughts, insight, advise, whatever, it will be greatly appreciated. My whole system is a result of others input, so onward and upward!
 Happy Listening...

And, oh, normally I'd be bothering Steve, but I'm pretty sure he has better things to do with his time (like get your stuff built & modded, mine too!) so I figured I go this route first then tap him when I get a little more direction. Huh

Best,
Scott
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TORII MKIV
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Lon
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Re: Would like to Start a Discussion & Hear Though
Reply #1 - 01/10/19 at 21:36:05
 
Scott, great news that you have these components done or nearly done. Your system is going to be GREAT and even GREATER once they all settle in. Take the time to smell the roses, and to enjoy the shifting sounds of "burn-in" that you will hear.  When you stop hearing changes, then you can start thinking of other changes to the system!

I'm sharing your excitement and it's giving me a glimpse of how I'll feel when my ZROCK2 is built and my Taboo Mk IV has the mods added!
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HR-1,ZP3,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SE84UFO3-25th, CSP3-25th.Taboo Mk IV+MK III;PS Audio:DMP+DSD,P10,NPC, PowerBases,Statement spkr cb, AC-12 power cds;Mapleshade:SamsonV2+V3;Oppo UDP-205;VooDoo: Cremona+Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner;headphones: Oppo PM-1,Sennheisern 800S
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Lonely Raven
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Re: Would like to Start a Discussion & Hear Thoughts
Reply #2 - 01/10/19 at 21:55:00
 

Paging Palomino, Paging Dr. Palomino!
You have a code Subwoofer!
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lazb
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Re: Would like to Start a Discussion & Hear Thoughts
Reply #3 - 01/10/19 at 22:28:01
 
Other than sheer physical size, what would be wrong with Decware ImperialSO for that solid bass and the occasional "thump" most everyone loves?
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will
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Re: Would like to Start a Discussion & Hear Though
Reply #4 - 01/10/19 at 22:53:02
 
Hey Scott. I agree with Lon. With a lot new coming in, might be good to get it all tuned to your system before deciding on a sub?

I can't say from experience, as I don't use one, but I got such a good recommendation from a guy who I trust the ears and analysis of much more than most, so I thought I should pass it on.

Conceptually, a big driver open baffle sounds compelling to me, well respected here on the forum. But if a box sub appeals, MJ Acoustics might be worth some research. The guy who I really trust the experience of, being a developer, and having heard really good systems like ours, and super high-end stuff in good rooms as well, thinks the MJ subs are really, really good. Part of this is the audio quality of course, but tied to that is relatively small size, and the ability for very good fine tuning via a smartphone app from the listening seat, and without DSP. With their subs anyway, he found this can relax specific placement issues in relation to the speakers and make a single sub work transparently if carefully dialed in.

Having room limitations for size and placement, I can't really use big driver open baffles in my current room, so I had started a conversation with Mj Acoustics quite a while ago. But I really like my bass as it is, and got caught up in other things, so research got side-tracked. That said, I found their emails very thoughtful and helpful, and they do ship from the UK, and are glad to work with us folks "across the water."

Possibly an option anyway if it comes to needing a sub or two.
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PSA P5/modified Brickwall/Shunyata Defender+more; RevolutionMacMini/Audirvana>modified Gustard x20pro DAC; DIY + Pi Audio PCs; DIY ICs, USB, speaker cables; Decware-Jupiter CSP3, Torii MKIV, HR1-all modified; DIY Zbit; feet-Madscientist, Archie's, isocups, DIY
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Tommy Freefall
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Re: Would like to Start a Discussion & Hear Thoughts
Reply #5 - 01/11/19 at 17:35:46
 
Scott, you may want to enjoy your system with the ZROCK2 for a while before going the S/W route.
I was contemplating one, but after I installed my ZROCK2, I no longer wanted a Sub.
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Palomino
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Re: Would like to Start a Discussion & Hear Though
Reply #6 - 01/11/19 at 19:53:38
 
After about 4-5 years with my Decware rig I went the route for a sub (now two), but only for below 50Hz.  From 50-250Hz is covered by the woofers in my OBs.  The subs I built are passive and are kinda of big (24X24).  I can lift them myself but its a chore.

I started with one sub on a plate amp taking the speaker level input from both channels and summing.  When I changed woofers in my OBs to run with a passive crossover, that freed up two crown amps run in bridged mode to power two subs.  In order to run the crown amps I had to build a cable with a resister in it so I could run off the speaker taps on my Rachael.  I believe this "magic cable" build is detailed in the Palomino Audio project thread.

So I like the subs because I like to feel the bass but I don't think they are a must have in my configuration.  Depending on the music I can turn them on or off.

My suggestion is to heed the advice offered here and let your new stuff arrive and burn in and then see where you want to go.
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i7 Mac Mini with LPSU/SSD running Audirvana 3, Uptone Audio Regen on LPSU, TEAC UD503, DIY Belden ICs, Torii MKIII, SE34I.32, PS Audio P5 Power Supply, PS Audio Power Cords, Vintage Western Electric 16g Speaker wires, DIY OB Speakers w/Tang Band/Augies
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ScottNC
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Re: Would like to Start a Discussion & Hear Thoughts
Reply #7 - 01/11/19 at 21:22:14
 
 I'm certainly not going to jump into anything right off, I'm looking through the responses and THANKS, gives me great food for thought. It will certainly be many months before I do any major changes or additions, just takes me some time to sort it all and rethink about 50 times, funny how things change with time. I appreciate everyone taking the time to give me different views, exactly what I was after. Hope to hear more. Having a good listen today to the speakers on  simple iso platforms I threw together, makes a nice change to not only the base but imaging and staging too.
 I do think a subtle bass boost from subs would be a lot of fun to mess with down the road, hope to hear more and do some additional research on them.
Best,
Scott
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TORII MKIV
ZBIT
ZROCK2-25th
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ZLC (inQ)
DNA2's
MyTek Brooklyn DAC+
Sonore ultraRendu-LinearPS
SGC sonicTransport APi7
Woo WA6
Sennheiser HD660s
Full Room Treatments
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DHC-1’s,DSR’s,ZENST,TriodeWireLabs
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Palomino
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Re: Would like to Start a Discussion & Hear Thoughts
Reply #8 - 01/11/19 at 21:43:39
 
Another consideration with the subs is your room.  

Prior to going open baffle, I had nulls in my room and bass was not that great.  You could literally move a foot and go from no bass to booming bass.

I do think that subs covering from only 50Hz down also helps the blend.  Its fairly non directional.
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lazb
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Re: Would like to Start a Discussion & Hear Thoughts
Reply #9 - 01/12/19 at 02:14:33
 
Scott, with my 25th Anniversary ZEN amp and DNA2 speakers I felt a bit lacking in the bass. An orchestra was not complete and full top to bottom. With the original ZROCK2 it was better but still not there. Now, with the ZROCK2 back with the 25th Anniversary mods, EVERYTHING is fuller, faster, deeper and even orchestra is more than just listenable. All of it is just M O R E !!  So, hang tight and listen a spell. You may still want a sub for the "subterranean" notes but I doubt it will be a "must have".
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Dominick
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Re: Would like to Start a Discussion & Hear Though
Reply #10 - 01/12/19 at 06:43:23
 
Scott... if you decide to go the sub route, try and audition ported and sealed enclosure subs.  You may prefer the sound of one over the other, depending on how you like your bass.  

I have had my Velodyne dual firing sub ( 10” forward firing, 12” down firing as a passive radiator) for a long time now.  It is  a sealed enclosure with a variable crossover and volume control.
For music I adjusted it below what my main speakers were capable of handling to extend the low end frequencies.  For movies....I played around with it a lot more.

After attending Decfest this past year,  I got to experience bass through the Imperial ISO’s. I now have a whole new appreciation for how bass sounds and feels.  Talk about mind blowing!!

Here is a link to sealed vs. ported subs.  Decent article for a quick reference...
https://www.audioadvice.com/content/sealed-vs-ported-subwoofers/
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Decware ERR's [Bubinga Wood], Zstage [with Beeswax caps], Zen Switch Box, Rega P2 turntable, Velodyne dual firing sub, Yamaha THX SS A/V Receiver
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Palomino
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Re: Would like to Start a Discussion & Hear Thoughts
Reply #11 - 01/12/19 at 15:51:50
 
+1 on the Imperials
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stone_of_tone
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Re: Would like to Start a Discussion & Hear Though
Reply #12 - 01/12/19 at 16:00:34
 
+2 on the Imperials (2005 & 2008 Decfest for me).

I love my Caintuck OB 15" when I want it.
I use it in an Ethereal capacity. My Acoustic Zen Adagio's (modified) are so fast and produce prodigious accurate bass....the OB 15" has its place though (once again when wanted ...never needed).

I would never want to be in a large space though. Love my dedicated Listening Room.

My large space is for mid-fi Polk 1.2 SRS SDA...... .
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Donnie
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Re: Would like to Start a Discussion & Hear Thoughts
Reply #13 - 01/12/19 at 16:24:23
 
Imperials all the way.
Right now I'm using a roll around garbage can sub in my listening room. Seems to work pretty well.
I'll build a pair of Imperials sometime.
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stone_of_tone
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Re: Would like to Start a Discussion & Hear Thoughts
Reply #14 - 01/12/19 at 16:45:58
 
Donnie, you always bring levity to our crazy fun sometimes obsessive Hobby! Grin
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Sony TPort
Illuminati D60
Shunyata Z-Alpha DigPcord
Decware ZDSD DAC
Kimber Select KS1030
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Decware ZMA/25th Mods
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ScottNC
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Re: Would like to Start a Discussion & Hear Thoughts
Reply #15 - 01/12/19 at 17:11:40
 
 I've been doing my research, I have a couple more for you guys, one, the Imperials seem like they'd be the ultimate, but man, talk big, they're big.
 Does anyone know what the dimensions are, I can't tell online from the diagram it can't be read off the sheet?
 Is it feasible to think one or are a pair the only way?
 I'm pretty handy but I don't have the shop or tools to build these, I wonder if Bob would do the cutting and ship them unassembled? That'd be a solution.
 I also have started working through the MJ Acoustics site, they seem to have a good story, and a viable option if I can't swing the Imperials either because of size or getting them built.
 This should be a fun journey, thanks for the perspectives so far can't wait to see the Brown Truck Monday (ZROCK@), then in a few weeks my modded MKIV.
 Hope to hear some more, Thanks again for taking the time, Happy Listening...

Best,
Scott
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TORII MKIV
ZBIT
ZROCK2-25th
ZTPRE(inQ)
ZLC (inQ)
DNA2's
MyTek Brooklyn DAC+
Sonore ultraRendu-LinearPS
SGC sonicTransport APi7
Woo WA6
Sennheiser HD660s
Full Room Treatments
Dedicated 10g Line Feed
DHC-1’s,DSR’s,ZENST,TriodeWireLabs
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Donnie
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Re: Would like to Start a Discussion & Hear Thoughts
Reply #16 - 01/12/19 at 17:26:10
 
Think refrigerator size. A old small single door refrigerator.
And I wan't kidding about my garbage can sub.
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stone_of_tone
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Re: Would like to Start a Discussion & Hear Thoughts
Reply #17 - 01/12/19 at 17:56:29
 
Yes, I should not have doubted it Donnie! That is so cool and rolling it around the room, so true! Cool
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Sony TPort
Illuminati D60
Shunyata Z-Alpha DigPcord
Decware ZDSD DAC
Kimber Select KS1030
XLOProPcord
Decware ZMA/25th Mods
Kimber Select KS6063
Acoustic Zen Adagio/Modified
Kimber PK10 Palladian from wall
to PS Audio P3
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ScottNC
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Re: Would like to Start a Discussion & Hear Thoughts
Reply #18 - 01/12/19 at 17:57:26
 
SmileyI remember seeing that "Can" in another of your posts, that thing would be pretty sharp looking with a roll walnut contact paper slapped on!
 I have one spot, (right side corner behind my TV) I could work a single Imperial if it came to that, but not a pair. Something to think on there for sure.

Best,
Scott
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TORII MKIV
ZBIT
ZROCK2-25th
ZTPRE(inQ)
ZLC (inQ)
DNA2's
MyTek Brooklyn DAC+
Sonore ultraRendu-LinearPS
SGC sonicTransport APi7
Woo WA6
Sennheiser HD660s
Full Room Treatments
Dedicated 10g Line Feed
DHC-1’s,DSR’s,ZENST,TriodeWireLabs
DIY Iso
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