Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
Decware Audio Forums
03/25/19 at 19:19:19 


       



Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print
Anniversary Mods for the ZROCK2 (Read 3164 times)
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 3613
Anniversary Mods for the ZROCK2
11/15/18 at 23:36:53
 

We have mods available for the ZROCK2.  If you have a 25th Anniversary Zen Triode Amplifier, and you want to use a ZROCK2 with it, you'll be fine when you goal is to listen to internet streaming of questionable sound quality.  However, if you plan to get in the sweet spot and do some serious listening, the ZROCK2 is not going to keep up with the insane speed of the SE84UFO25.

The mods are two fold, bypass caps on the power supply to speed it up and increase resolution, and a vacuum regulator tube that is permanently soldered into the interior and does not need replacement.  The vacuum tube filters the high voltage power giving a better result than if you had a stock unit plugged into a power regenerator.

Listening to the ZROCK2 with both of these mods is quite an experience.  The only words that keep coming to mind is "exquisite tone".  The midrange and depth is striking.

Again, this just became available and is not yet on the site or more specifically an option in the shopping cart, but can be purchased on new models with an email or phone call, or just by writing it into the comments section of the order form when you check out.

Happy Listening!

Steve


Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 15464
Re: Anniversary Mods for the ZROCK2
Reply #1 - 11/16/18 at 02:17:03
 
I'm sitting here trying to imagine how the ZROCK2 with the power supply mods and voltage regulator tube will sound. I can only imagine it will sound amazing! I've ordered one using the "add the request to the comments section of the order form" method. And it's on the Build List. The wait has begun!
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SE84UFO3-25th, CSP3-25th.Taboo Mk IV+MK III;Rega P3 w/modPS Audio:DMP+DSD,P10,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs; Mapleshade:SamsonV2+V3,double helix Plus spark cbl;Oppo UDP205;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner; headphones: PM1,HD800S,LCD-
  IP Logged
lazb
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 138
Re: Anniversary Mods for the ZROCK2
Reply #2 - 11/16/18 at 18:29:49
 
I am envious, Lon! Hard to imagine the ZROCK mods being THAT significant but, yep, I gotta have them. BUT I do not want to do without it long enough to send it in!?!?!  NOW what do I do? Man, I wish Steve had recommended that mod when I ordered mine.  :(
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 15464
Re: Anniversary Mods for the ZROCK2
Reply #3 - 11/16/18 at 18:39:08
 
I understand that Joe, but I think that these mods for the ZROCK2 may not have even been a twinkle in his eye then!

That was the dilemma I faced, whether to do without for a while or not. . . and so I ordered a new one so I can keep the old one in my system. The old one will now serve my tuner, and the new one will serve my DirectStream DAC. I know eventually I'll be tempted to send the original ZROCK2 in for the mods. It's just how we are. . . .
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SE84UFO3-25th, CSP3-25th.Taboo Mk IV+MK III;Rega P3 w/modPS Audio:DMP+DSD,P10,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs; Mapleshade:SamsonV2+V3,double helix Plus spark cbl;Oppo UDP205;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner; headphones: PM1,HD800S,LCD-
  IP Logged
pursuitofnow
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 278
Re: Anniversary Mods for the ZROCK2
Reply #4 - 11/18/18 at 03:01:31
 
I just did the same thing and placed an order for another ZROCK2 with anniversary updates. I will use existing one in the office system when the new one arrives. Will also be fun to compare the two.
Back to top
 
 

Thorens VN-150, 2M Black, ZP3, ZSTAGE
PS Audio DirectStream DAC, ZBIT, ZROCK2
SE84UFO3 (25th)
Omega Super 3 HO XRS, DeepOmega 8
Zenwave D4, ZSTYX
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 15464
Re: Anniversary Mods for the ZROCK2
Reply #5 - 11/18/18 at 12:09:17
 
The waiting has begun for us both!
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SE84UFO3-25th, CSP3-25th.Taboo Mk IV+MK III;Rega P3 w/modPS Audio:DMP+DSD,P10,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs; Mapleshade:SamsonV2+V3,double helix Plus spark cbl;Oppo UDP205;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner; headphones: PM1,HD800S,LCD-
  IP Logged
gwng8
Verified Member
**




Posts: 13
Re: Anniversary Mods for the ZROCK2
Reply #6 - 11/19/18 at 23:11:46
 
What are the prices for these upgrades?
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 15464
Re: Anniversary Mods for the ZROCK2
Reply #7 - 11/20/18 at 00:36:49
 
Here is the price listing Steve posted on another thread:
Back to top
 

45736456_555129668241765_8501612815805579264_n.jpg

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SE84UFO3-25th, CSP3-25th.Taboo Mk IV+MK III;Rega P3 w/modPS Audio:DMP+DSD,P10,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs; Mapleshade:SamsonV2+V3,double helix Plus spark cbl;Oppo UDP205;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner; headphones: PM1,HD800S,LCD-
  IP Logged
Jess
Verified Member
**




Posts: 7
Re: Anniversary Mods for the ZROCK2
Reply #8 - 11/21/18 at 06:34:42
 
Hi Steve,

Just to double confirm on what you mentioned that the moded ZROCK 2 can’t keep up with the speed of SE84UFO25.  Does it mean it is better not to have ZR2 and its mod?  Will this be true to other anniv Torii amps?
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Archie
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 1262
Re: Anniversary Mods for the ZROCK2
Reply #9 - 11/21/18 at 16:30:02
 
How I read Steve's comments is that the stock ZR2 WON'T keep up with the Anniversary amp but with Anniversary mods, the ZR2-A WILL.
Back to top
 
 

Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
HR1s (Upgrd - top & bass drivers & X-ovr)
Silver Cabling
DIY Isolation platforms under everything.
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 15464
Re: Anniversary Mods for the ZROCK2
Reply #10 - 11/21/18 at 16:50:44
 
That's how I read it too.  I think the mods will be worth it.
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SE84UFO3-25th, CSP3-25th.Taboo Mk IV+MK III;Rega P3 w/modPS Audio:DMP+DSD,P10,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs; Mapleshade:SamsonV2+V3,double helix Plus spark cbl;Oppo UDP205;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner; headphones: PM1,HD800S,LCD-
  IP Logged
gwng8
Verified Member
**




Posts: 13
Re: Anniversary Mods for the ZROCK2
Reply #11 - 11/22/18 at 21:32:12
 
How much does the by-pass mod add to the sound?
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
gwng8
Verified Member
**




Posts: 13
Re: Anniversary Mods for the ZROCK2
Reply #12 - 11/22/18 at 21:33:17
 
Where would my dollars be best spent, on upgrading the capacitors (to Type 2 or 3) or doing the bypass mod?
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 15464
Re: Anniversary Mods for the ZROCK2
Reply #13 - 11/23/18 at 01:57:25
 
gwng8 wrote on 11/22/18 at 21:32:12:
How much does the by-pass mod add to the sound?  

I think at this point only Steve can answer that as he is likely the only one responding on the forum that has heard the mods in the ZROCK2.

If they are similar to the mods done to the amplifiers and the preamplifier (both of which I have been listening to for months) then there will be a "sensation" of more power, and there will seem to be more detail and "holographic" feel to the sound.
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SE84UFO3-25th, CSP3-25th.Taboo Mk IV+MK III;Rega P3 w/modPS Audio:DMP+DSD,P10,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs; Mapleshade:SamsonV2+V3,double helix Plus spark cbl;Oppo UDP205;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner; headphones: PM1,HD800S,LCD-
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 15464
Re: Anniversary Mods for the ZROCK2
Reply #14 - 11/23/18 at 01:59:18
 
gwng8 wrote on 11/22/18 at 21:33:17:
Where would my dollars be best spent, on upgrading the capacitors (to Type 2 or 3) or doing the bypass mod?

My personal guess: spending even more money to do both--update the caps to Type 2 and do the mods. Otherwise. . . my gut tells me do the mods on the stock capacitors may be a bit better than doing the capacitor mod alone, but doing both would be really beneficial.
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SE84UFO3-25th, CSP3-25th.Taboo Mk IV+MK III;Rega P3 w/modPS Audio:DMP+DSD,P10,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs; Mapleshade:SamsonV2+V3,double helix Plus spark cbl;Oppo UDP205;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner; headphones: PM1,HD800S,LCD-
  IP Logged
gwng8
Verified Member
**




Posts: 13
Re: Anniversary Mods for the ZROCK2
Reply #15 - 11/26/18 at 19:22:51
 
Thanks for the responses.

How long does it usually take to receive a unit?
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 15464
Re: Anniversary Mods for the ZROCK2
Reply #16 - 11/26/18 at 19:30:14
 
The average lead time seems to be 8 to 10 weeks this year.
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SE84UFO3-25th, CSP3-25th.Taboo Mk IV+MK III;Rega P3 w/modPS Audio:DMP+DSD,P10,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs; Mapleshade:SamsonV2+V3,double helix Plus spark cbl;Oppo UDP205;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner; headphones: PM1,HD800S,LCD-
  IP Logged
gwng8
Verified Member
**




Posts: 13
Re: Anniversary Mods for the ZROCK2
Reply #17 - 11/26/18 at 19:45:58
 
yikes
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 15464
Re: Anniversary Mods for the ZROCK2
Reply #18 - 11/26/18 at 19:48:58
 
That's average for Decware. These are built by hand and thoroughly tested before release. This weekend there were 81 new orders placed for the Black Friday sale. . . . Good things come to those who wait. I admit I'm used to waiting for Decware products, been the case for over 20 years of my Decware using history.
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SE84UFO3-25th, CSP3-25th.Taboo Mk IV+MK III;Rega P3 w/modPS Audio:DMP+DSD,P10,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs; Mapleshade:SamsonV2+V3,double helix Plus spark cbl;Oppo UDP205;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner; headphones: PM1,HD800S,LCD-
  IP Logged
pursuitofnow
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 278
Re: Anniversary Mods for the ZROCK2
Reply #19 - 11/27/18 at 02:39:25
 
8-10 weeks isn't bad. The current waitlist seems more like 16 weeks. I know, I know, par for the course. It's just hard to not think about it when you are waiting.  ;)
Back to top
 
 

Thorens VN-150, 2M Black, ZP3, ZSTAGE
PS Audio DirectStream DAC, ZBIT, ZROCK2
SE84UFO3 (25th)
Omega Super 3 HO XRS, DeepOmega 8
Zenwave D4, ZSTYX
  IP Logged
gwng8
Verified Member
**




Posts: 13
Re: Anniversary Mods for the ZROCK2
Reply #20 - 11/27/18 at 20:49:32
 
I guess I just thought they had partially assembled models that they would then customize as required.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 15464
Re: Anniversary Mods for the ZROCK2
Reply #21 - 01/31/19 at 03:06:24
 
Well, my order from November now is the 15th new item on the build list. . . probably another three weeks to a month to go. Looking forward to hearing a ZROCK2 with the Anniversary mods.
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SE84UFO3-25th, CSP3-25th.Taboo Mk IV+MK III;Rega P3 w/modPS Audio:DMP+DSD,P10,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs; Mapleshade:SamsonV2+V3,double helix Plus spark cbl;Oppo UDP205;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner; headphones: PM1,HD800S,LCD-
  IP Logged
JOMAN
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 306
Re: Anniversary Mods for the ZROCK2
Reply #22 - 02/10/19 at 05:45:52
 
I posted earlier that I just received my modem ZR-2.  Actually I received it a couple of weeks ago but did not put it in until today.  The system is now in the new reno-ed room and the built in entertainment center.

I’ve been listening for about 6 hours so I would think that the mods still have a way to go before they’re burned in.  For those that may be wondering if the the mods are worth the money? - HELL YES! and, do both!!!

My ZR-2 is loaded including silver RCA’s and as good as it was, right from the get go the difference was, well, hard to come to terms with.

After about 30 minutes my wife who was listening on the sidelines without prompting said “everything you’ve played is very controlled, far richer and very melodic.”  She’s a non audiophile who has endured many years of my “hobby” with me.  She was right on.  It’s that obvious.

So we both sat down for the rest of the evening and just played tunes.  As the evening progressed the sound stage began to widen out in all directions.  I flipped the bypass switch two or three times to confirm what the difference was and I could only handle the bypassed version for a moment or two.

Before I had the ZR-2 I ran my ZDSD gain at -18dB.  After I got the ZR-2 I took it down to -14dB.  With the A-moded ZR-2 in place and the the ZDSD set at -14dB there is far more density, solidity and impact than when it was set at -18dB without the ZR-2 or at -14dB with the non A-moded ZR-2.

I do not like talking about the bass because that takes away from what the ZR-2 does which is much more than just bass restoration but it has to be mentioned... YES the A-moded ZR-2 pushes bass and bass head room well beyond expectations and it is a controlled bass, even at 6 hours of playing time.  I’m running Omega S3HOXRS speakers and the bass that is coming out of those speakers now with the A-moded ZR-2 has to be heard to be believed.  

My wife commented on something else that was of interest to her, she said quite genuinely, “you haven’t gone through your usual ritual of adjusting the speakers, should I get the tape measure?”  -  “No dear, I think you should refill your glass” was my reply, not really what I was thinking at that moment.  Yup the A-mods are that good and at only 6 hours. Lets see what will happen in the next 50 hours.







Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
JOMAN
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 306
Re: Anniversary Mods for the ZROCK2
Reply #23 - 02/10/19 at 05:50:03
 
Correction in the first sentence, not modem ZR-2, supposed to be A-moded ZR-2.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 15464
Re: Anniversary Mods for the ZROCK2
Reply #24 - 03/07/19 at 21:11:12
 
J, boy that post above really whetted my appetite when you wrote it and now, seemingly a half an eternity later, my ZROCK2 with the mods has shipped. No tracking number yet, but it should arrive Tuesday or so.

Really looking forward to it for two reasons: I want to experience this improved sound that is reported, even though I love the sound I have right now with the non-modded ZROCK2; secondly I really want to move my original ZROCK2 into my new audio-visual living room system, which sounds very good with CSP3-25 and Taboo MK IV-25 amp, but I KNOW a ZROCK2 will really help it to be its best, it's just lacking what the ZROCK2 will bring.
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SE84UFO3-25th, CSP3-25th.Taboo Mk IV+MK III;Rega P3 w/modPS Audio:DMP+DSD,P10,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs; Mapleshade:SamsonV2+V3,double helix Plus spark cbl;Oppo UDP205;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner; headphones: PM1,HD800S,LCD-
  IP Logged
HockessinKid
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 206
Re: Anniversary Mods for the ZROCK2
Reply #25 - 03/07/19 at 21:37:59
 
I am about 2-3 weeks out for mine. Starting to get goosebumps already ☺️.

HK
Back to top
 
 

Lonely Raven Music PC (or) TEAC PD-600H > ZDAC2 (or) Nottingham Interspace TT (heavy platter) w/ Dynavector 20X2LO + P75 MKII phono pre > CSP3-25 preamp > Zen Mystery amp > Omega SAHO XRS speakers > ZenWave Audio, TWL, & Acoustic BBQ cables.
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 15464
Re: Anniversary Mods for the ZROCK2
Reply #26 - 03/11/19 at 20:57:24
 
Mine arrived. I was immediately disappointed to see that instead of the ebony knob I requested I got a black chicken-head knob. Sigh. I'll live with it.

I've hooked it up and it's. . . tarter then my first ZROCK2, which is to be expected at this stage. I'll let it cook in overnight and listen tomorrow; my wife is home today so little listening possible anyway.

I moved my first ZROCK2 into the living room system and listened to a half a cd while Lucy was walking Fiona. Wow. That was exactly what that system needs (as I knew) and it delivers. I'll be enjoying listening to that system a lot more!
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SE84UFO3-25th, CSP3-25th.Taboo Mk IV+MK III;Rega P3 w/modPS Audio:DMP+DSD,P10,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs; Mapleshade:SamsonV2+V3,double helix Plus spark cbl;Oppo UDP205;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner; headphones: PM1,HD800S,LCD-
  IP Logged
HockessinKid
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 206
Re: Anniversary Mods for the ZROCK2
Reply #27 - 03/11/19 at 21:43:47
 
Lon, just drop a note to Sarah. I'm sure they'll mail you an ebony knob or two😀.

HK
Back to top
 
 

Lonely Raven Music PC (or) TEAC PD-600H > ZDAC2 (or) Nottingham Interspace TT (heavy platter) w/ Dynavector 20X2LO + P75 MKII phono pre > CSP3-25 preamp > Zen Mystery amp > Omega SAHO XRS speakers > ZenWave Audio, TWL, & Acoustic BBQ cables.
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 15464
Re: Anniversary Mods for the ZROCK2
Reply #28 - 03/11/19 at 21:56:12
 
I don't think I want to do the butterknife pry off thing. I'll be okay. I'm getting over my ebony knob obsession I guess. When I sent my Taboo Mk IV in for the upgrades it came back with three black knobs in place of the ebony originally on the unit. I don't like them as much (especially how they feel to the fingertips) but I'm getting used to them. inversely when I sent my CSP2+ in for the mods, it came back with the gold knob it had replaced with an ebony knob. I'm going to get off the knob merry-go-round right now.
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SE84UFO3-25th, CSP3-25th.Taboo Mk IV+MK III;Rega P3 w/modPS Audio:DMP+DSD,P10,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs; Mapleshade:SamsonV2+V3,double helix Plus spark cbl;Oppo UDP205;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner; headphones: PM1,HD800S,LCD-
  IP Logged
JOMAN
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 306
Re: Anniversary Mods for the ZROCK2
Reply #29 - 03/12/19 at 14:42:28
 
Lon, after having the A-modded ZR2 for two or three weeks I was chasing some “tartness” or “brightness” in the upper frequencies so I ended up rolling the tube in the ZR2 and in the outputs of my CSP-3 and... WOW and I mean W O W!!!!

I’m going to post the changes I made in a weeks time.  I want to let the tubes cook a little longer.  

This weekend we had friends over. One fellow brought the blue ray concert Joe Bonamassa at Carnegie Hall.  I’ve yet to experience the speed, the sheer dynamic power of music from an electronic system that resulted with all the attributes that audiophiles chase.

Afterwards he said “I heard that you had a good system but I never imagined THIS!  His wife added “Yeah, and after THIS I have to go home and listen to our transistor stuff.”  This was her first experience with a tube based system and Decware.

Stay tuned...

Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 15464
Re: Anniversary Mods for the ZROCK2
Reply #30 - 03/12/19 at 17:30:04
 
That's cool John. I really enjoy the sound with both audio and video sources with the new system I have set up, especially now that I have the original ZROCK2 in place. (I think that the fully modded ZROCK2 that just arrived would show up the shortcomings of the Oppo UDP-205 that I am using, I clearly hear its shortcomings compared to the PS Audio duo I use in the other system).

The fully modded ZROCK2 is sounding a bit better today in the main system. I will play around with gain settings of the ZTPRE and the ZBIT as this new gain stage with added caps and a regulation tube is different than the original ZROCK2 and I can hear that. I'm loathe to roll tubes. . . . The complement that I am using now is one of the few that suits all the material I toss at the system, analog and digital and I spent a long time getting here. I am pretty sure I'm hearing "break in" characteristics that will "dissolve" in the near future. I've been breaking in a lot of things lately--Taboo Mk IV with mods, CSP2+ with mods, ZLC . . . and now ZROCK2 with mods. I've also moved my main system and set up two new ones. I'm just a little too eager for a "settled in" sound. I need to just sit back and let things happen and not be so analytical right now.
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SE84UFO3-25th, CSP3-25th.Taboo Mk IV+MK III;Rega P3 w/modPS Audio:DMP+DSD,P10,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs; Mapleshade:SamsonV2+V3,double helix Plus spark cbl;Oppo UDP205;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner; headphones: PM1,HD800S,LCD-
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 15464
Re: Anniversary Mods for the ZROCK2
Reply #31 - 03/12/19 at 19:56:31
 
I definitely get the "Wow." Steve is right in the first post about the depth and speed. It's as if the original ZROCK2 cast a thin ephemeral euphonic veil over the soundstage and the spaces between notes. The modded ZROCK2 burns off that veil and cooks. Part of the "tartness" I'm hearing is that veil dispersed and the notes revealed with even more space between them and even more depth to develop and sustain. An incredible sound. . . and I think the treble reduction which I need/crave will continue to grow incrementally with use. I've no issue with vinyl, but with digital, which again is revealing of the two media. I've moved speakers some and tweaked gain from the ZTPRE and ZBIT and the rest is a matter of time and hope.

I can certainly say the mods create not a subtle difference!
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SE84UFO3-25th, CSP3-25th.Taboo Mk IV+MK III;Rega P3 w/modPS Audio:DMP+DSD,P10,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs; Mapleshade:SamsonV2+V3,double helix Plus spark cbl;Oppo UDP205;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner; headphones: PM1,HD800S,LCD-
  IP Logged
JOMAN
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 306
Re: Anniversary Mods for the ZROCK2
Reply #32 - 03/14/19 at 05:29:15
 
It hasn’t been a week but sometimes even when the burn in isn’t complete you can tell that you’ve nailed it.  Lon’s right... the ZR2, even before the A-mods, does reveal good and bad but not to the same degree as after the A-mods.  This is a very good thing because if you follow what it’s telling you, you end up with something that is so outsdanding.

Before getting the A-mods on my ZR2 I knew I would have do make some changes to the cabling, simply changing connectors did it.  Actually that started when I installed my new Co-Ax cable, actually it isn’t a Co-Ax configuration - a Boomslang (I know Lon... it doesn’t exist), and that was before the A-mods.

When I got the my A-moded ZR2, as impressive as it was, it and the UFO-25 were pointing to something else that needed ‘adjusting’.  I was using a Seimens ECC82 nickel plate in the ZR2, great tube in the right application.  I use German tubes because they can be very dynamic but do tilt to the upper frequencies, which up until I got the modded ZR2 was good for me.  Afterwords though, as the moded ZR2 continued to burn in the ‘tartness’ started to become a distraction from the really good things that were happening and that I was so impressed with

So I felt that I needed to experiment with the tube that I had in the A- moded ZR-2, but had a limited choice of tubes, a Seimens E80CC and the tube that came with the ZR2, a re branded GE 5963 long grey plate 60’s vintage.  Put the Seimens ECC80 in and the ‘tartness’ was gone.  Nice but not enough resolution for me.  So I put the original Red Tipped GE in thinking why not.  Things improved quite significantly, tartness gone,  impressive, better resolution but I wanted more life.

Next I looked at what I had in my CSP-3 outputs...  6N11’s.  These had been in for a couple of years and I new that these Could be a bit ‘hard’.  So these were the next to go.  I have a few options here and the one I chose went against my better judgment.. pair of Seimens ECC88.  I have a couple of pair and I was thinking of selling them, but I put them in the CSP-3 with the original GE 5963 in the A-modded ZR-2  and W O W!!!

Walking back to my chair I started to move to the tempo of the music and I didn’t sit down for a while.  As the tubes started to burn in I noticed a bit of haziness with some music but not all, with jazz it was great, my wife commented that it’s like being in a smokey bar.

So I got and tried an RCA 5963 blackplate and a National 5963 black plate.  Really nice but lost some life and after experiencing that I was not prepared to let it go.  Next I tried a Sylvania 5963 long grey plate and BINGO.  More resolution no ‘tartness’ and all the life is back.  I did dial the input volume level on my ZDSD back from -.5dB to -1dB.

What I mean by life is what we used to refer to as PRaT, I think that Naim started that.  Now some will argue that you can only get Pace, Rythm and Timing in a live event.  Well, I can’t keep still when I listen now, toe tapping and foot stomping galore!  Voices to die for... Yes all the audiophile stuff is there along with a huge sound stage with a large scale perspective on the musicians and vocalists.  But the sheer dynamic power of the music is just amazing.  You can clearly hear what the musicians are doing, perhaps not as much as in a live event but more than enough.  

The ZR-2 still reveals the quality of the recording, however, I’ve yet to take a disc out regardless.

As everything is burning in the PRaT remains and the sound gets better.  Let me emphasize it’s not just one tube that’s doing this it’s sum of the whole, not just the tube.  No magic bullet, just patience and perserverence.  

I have to confess, one more tube en route... Raytheon 3 hole grey plate, wind mill getter.  After that, a final selection and tube rolling is over, just need to get spares.  For now it’s the Sylvania 5963 long grey plate and GE 5963 long grey plate for me, in that close order.  I’m keeping both.  You may find you like the black plate tubes better with your set up.

Finally after many years of trial and trial, I’m there!
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 15464
Re: Anniversary Mods for the ZROCK2
Reply #33 - 03/14/19 at 11:10:28
 
Well, we're all different, and we have different rooms and setups etc. For example I am no longer using a coaxial digital cable, my transport talks to my DAC via HDMI (though a different protocol geared for I2S) and I've taken the blu-ray player that used the coaxial input from the system, and I'm not using a CSP3-25 in this system now, using a ZTPRE. I have never really found Siemens tubes to work in my system, and I couldn't handle the 6N11 at all in the components.

I've a handful of 5963 and have had some success with them before, I may try one when this new ZROCK2 settles down a bit. At the close of the day yesterday I was enjoying it more. We'll see. . . I'm not ready to dive into serious tube-rolling yet until I feel the unit is not going to undergo any more than very subtle changes. Thanks for outlining the path you took. I've had success so far with speaker adjustment and gain-riding between ZP3 and ZBIT.

Actually most of what I was hearing I think is break-in related. Vinyl playback sounds so good right now that it may be pointing me away from tube complement changes (especially as I'm very adamant that the current ones are exemplary for my needs) and towards other aspects of the digital end of the system, isolation or cabling. I'm definitely hearing the PRAT and soundstage aspects of the change, very dynamic and the soundstage has expanded and deepened. But I live in the rich tonal nuances and have to get that right.
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SE84UFO3-25th, CSP3-25th.Taboo Mk IV+MK III;Rega P3 w/modPS Audio:DMP+DSD,P10,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs; Mapleshade:SamsonV2+V3,double helix Plus spark cbl;Oppo UDP205;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner; headphones: PM1,HD800S,LCD-
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 15464
Re: Anniversary Mods for the ZROCK2
Reply #34 - 03/14/19 at 19:17:00
 
Some more experimentation with speaker positioning and gain, and some more time and the system is sounding much better with the ZROCK2. The National tube that Steve sent its the unit is sounding very good with all my other tube complements unchanged. But I've ended up with the Amperex 12AU7 I was using before after trying four other "types" and brands on hand. I'm used to it, and it has a warm touch to the midrange that I love, especially showing this with piano mid and low range notes.

The dynamics and detail that the ZROCK2 lets through makes for exciting listening, and moving listening too (Billie Holiday really moved me). . . .
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SE84UFO3-25th, CSP3-25th.Taboo Mk IV+MK III;Rega P3 w/modPS Audio:DMP+DSD,P10,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs; Mapleshade:SamsonV2+V3,double helix Plus spark cbl;Oppo UDP205;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner; headphones: PM1,HD800S,LCD-
  IP Logged
HockessinKid
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 206
Re: Anniversary Mods for the ZROCK2
Reply #35 - 03/14/19 at 20:34:01
 
Great to hear Lon. Mine is on the bench.😊

HK
Back to top
 
 

Lonely Raven Music PC (or) TEAC PD-600H > ZDAC2 (or) Nottingham Interspace TT (heavy platter) w/ Dynavector 20X2LO + P75 MKII phono pre > CSP3-25 preamp > Zen Mystery amp > Omega SAHO XRS speakers > ZenWave Audio, TWL, & Acoustic BBQ cables.
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 15464
Re: Anniversary Mods for the ZROCK2
Reply #36 - 03/16/19 at 16:51:14
 
Week after next you'll be jamming to it HK!

This is sort of the story of my life: I find something I love, stock up on it and then somehow it becomes unnecessary to have done so. In this case OD3 voltage regulation tubes.

Thanks to Juan pointing out the possibilities with the Monoblocks and that tube type I went on a spree of trying different brands and types (thank goodness they are cheap) and found that I loved the OD3W. . . and have on hand a total of nine pair in Tung-Sol (my favorite so far), Raytheon, Sylvania and Chatham. And with the OG ZROCK2 these were just the ticket to give me a full range of tonality for the music I have on hand to play. Totally dig the way the space is between the notes and the tightness and accuracy of the lower frequencies.

And then the upstart 25th Anniversary ZROCK2 arrives and everything is different. As John suggested I rolled all kinds of tubes in the ZROCK2 and even tried rolling a few tubes elsewhere, and I know it's still breaking in a bit but I just couldn't find a set up where I relaxed into the music. I even almost swapped it out with the OG ZROCK2 now living in the living-room audio/video system quite happily. But then I dawned on me to roll voltage regulation tubes for the Monoblocks and that was the ticket. I tried OB3 only to find that the only pair I kept after adding a number of tubes to the sale of my two Torii Mk IIIs and my Torii Mk II, my trusty favorite Arcturus. . . were not functional--one of the tubes just won't "ignite." So I tried OA3, of which I have five single ones (ZP3 experimentation) and two pair. I tried the Sylvania pair (sent with the amp by Steve) and realized right away this was the ticket: the modded ZROCK2 loved the OA3 so much more than the OD3W. And then I tried the other pair, GE, and there's a certain atmospheric charm these have and they've stayed in. I ordered a pair of RCA OA3 to try too as I've had great success with them in the past in the Toriis.

So now the OA3s are making everything so much better and the new ZROCK2 is inching my system up a few notches as it seasons. A bit more dynamics, a bit more detail and transient speed, and now the frequency balance is back where I need it to be. The system has been through some real changes the past six weeks and here's hoping it continues to improve as it has . . . .

And I have a lot of OD3W tubes to store. Who knows maybe another tube complement or component change will bring them back into favored status.

This audio hobby is rarely ever boring!
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SE84UFO3-25th, CSP3-25th.Taboo Mk IV+MK III;Rega P3 w/modPS Audio:DMP+DSD,P10,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs; Mapleshade:SamsonV2+V3,double helix Plus spark cbl;Oppo UDP205;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner; headphones: PM1,HD800S,LCD-
  IP Logged
HockessinKid
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 206
Re: Anniversary Mods for the ZROCK2
Reply #37 - 03/16/19 at 17:38:32
 
Always an adventure Lon. I look forward to getting the modified ZR2 and putting lots of hours on it. Since I'll be getting 25th Anniversary mods to my ZMA amp (as soon as Steve gets the new caps in), my system will undergo two big changes over the next couple months.

I figure that sometime this summer, I'll likely try some tube swapping. With Decware amps and preamps, I get the biggest change in sound by swapping in a new rectifier tube. We'll see.

HK
Back to top
 
 

Lonely Raven Music PC (or) TEAC PD-600H > ZDAC2 (or) Nottingham Interspace TT (heavy platter) w/ Dynavector 20X2LO + P75 MKII phono pre > CSP3-25 preamp > Zen Mystery amp > Omega SAHO XRS speakers > ZenWave Audio, TWL, & Acoustic BBQ cables.
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 15464
Re: Anniversary Mods for the ZROCK2
Reply #38 - 03/16/19 at 17:45:39
 
I actually think I get radical sound change from all the positions, but yeah, rectifiers are important. I've settled on the Sophia Electric Aqua 274B as my anchor rectifiers. . . they are just the most "invisible" that I've tried, and boy have I tried rectifiers, I have a drawer full! I use them as an anchor to build around. Likewise Amperex inputs. . . there's something about the Holland Amperex family sound that just works so well with my interconnects and power cabling and system as a whole. . . . That leaves me the voltage regulation tubes to play with more than the others and I thought I had that covered til yesterday, and the OA3 are sounding so good today that I guess I may have that covered too.

Tube rolling is fun, but I do love it when I feel I don't HAVE to roll. This year has seen a lot of improvements and I don't regret sending units in for modding and buying new components, but I do just want to sit back and relax and listen and I think I'm close to that point again thank goodness!

Come on summer, lots of reasons to look forward to that!
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SE84UFO3-25th, CSP3-25th.Taboo Mk IV+MK III;Rega P3 w/modPS Audio:DMP+DSD,P10,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs; Mapleshade:SamsonV2+V3,double helix Plus spark cbl;Oppo UDP205;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner; headphones: PM1,HD800S,LCD-
  IP Logged
JOMAN
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 306
Re: Anniversary Mods for the ZROCK2
Reply #39 - 03/17/19 at 00:18:39
 
Don’t know how many hours I’ve got on my A-modded ZR-2 but I am fairly well into the burn in process and I’m now starting to get my head around what is happening.  The last thing it’s about is “bass restoration”.  Not that it doesn’t do that, it’s just that it does so very much more.  

Just get that “bass restoration” out of your head and try to start with a clean slate when you get your A-edition of the ZR-2.  The A-mods make this a very different component from what it was before and if you’ve had one, from what you think you know about what you will be getting with the A-edition of the ZR-2.  Not changing your thinking is just going to get in the way.

Think... TONE AND MUSIC MACHINE!  Maybe after the A-mods it should be termed ZR-2-TMM.  As Lon said referring to tube rolling you’ll “get a radical sound change from all the positions”.  Couldn’t agree more!

Today was a ‘lazy’ Saturday for me so I turned on my system let it warm up,  I felt it was time to put on my acid test disc, Symphony a la Espanola. After it was over it started to dawn on me as to what the A-modded ZR2 was doing.  

I remembered something that Steve had said about the A-mods for the CSP-3 and looked it up... “The result is a resolution explosion combined with more juicy tone and weight.”  I firmly believe that this is also what the A-modded Tone and Music Machine is doing (formerly ZR-2, at least for me).  Sometime ago I talked with Steve about the A-Edition of the CSP-3 and I expressed the thought that I may have to go through the process of re-selecting my tube choices.  I recall him stating that the A-Edition of the CSP-3 would make the existing tubes sound better.  That’s what the Tone and Music Machine is also doing.

Although I’m rolling some of the tubes they’ve never ‘sounded’ the way they do now.  I got rid of the 6N11 in the CSP-3 because after two years I thought that they probably should be changed.  I was able to make them work before but there were always certain trade offs that I’d rather not have to deal with.  The only options I had were 6N5P-EV (think thats right), and the Seimens E88CC which I had mothballed after a very short stint in the CSP-3.  I put in the Seimens and after 10-15 hours they were nothing like what I remembered them being.  The point is that there was a “radical change” in that position.  May not be everyone’s flavour, that’s not the point, the point is there was a huge change in what they were doing along with the rest of the tube complement.

So give it time to burn in and work with it only after you re-think what you think you know.

As far as my acid test disc... It was like being in one of the first three or four rows of the event.  The tone of each instrument and the work of each musician was so evident.  Now here’s something you are not going to believe... the Kettle Drum... filled the room... never before.  I could hear and FEEL the result of the initial strike, the reverberating of the skin and the various tones of the decay after words.

Yes I know it’s only a 2.3 watt amp with fast and efficient speakers that only have 2 four inch drivers each... nevertheless, I felt it in my chest!  That’s because the A modded ZR-2 and the UFO-25 ARE Tone and Music Machines!



Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 15464
Re: Anniversary Mods for the ZROCK2
Reply #40 - 03/17/19 at 01:03:30
 
I can agree with a lot of what you are saying here. The ZROCK2 with the mods has a different nature.

The thing for me is that I NEED BASS RESTORATION. And there's less going on, at least at this point in the life of my modded ZROCK2, than there is in the original gangster ZROCK2. CONSIDERABLY less, which surprised me from moment one.

And. . . I really don't find that it's altering my original tube choices in the other components. In fact I've already this afternoon back-pedaled and put the OD3W back in the Monoblocks to control the output tubes. I rolled in a tube to the modded ZROCK that I had forgotten I had and found stuck behind a box of other tubes: one of a pair of GE 5814A. This a very accurate and very smooth tube. It takes off the treble edge I was experiencing with the other tubes and allows the OD3W to shine as it has done.

And I agree that there's more holographic info (even though my system is not really set up for that) and dynamic contrasts are more pronounced--there's just a blacker clarity still (the amps have so much!) that as you say lets the recording unfold (well, you put it that you can hear what the musicians are doing better, I prefer to think of it as there is more of the recording passed through cleanly and without time smear).

Still, I have mine cranked all the way with EQA to get the bass I need, regardless of tube complement now. I can live with that, it's just different behavior that I did not expect from my experience with the OG ZROCK2 which I did not have to turn up that high. I can move my speakers further back to the front wall corners but that gives me other imaging and sonic changes I don't want. Perhaps in time the unit will allow me a bit more lower end heft. . . maybe that will season in. . . sometimes that happens with capacitor aging. That's my fervent wish--to have the ability to back it off from full tilt. I've accepted it after four days, and as long as I get what I am getting now I'll be happy, but it is the most unexpected part of the experience for me and I was scratching my head over it for a while.

So I get that there's more resolution and more juicy subtle dynamics that give a breath of life. But the "heft" is missing from the equation in my system. I wonder if its the tube voltage mod that is making this the case for me. My system is already very well regulated by my PS Audio P10. I may have a different experience with just the capacitor mod or may need to find a way to try to plug in the modded ZROCK2 outside of the P10 (though my experience is that a component plugged outside the P10 gives less "hit"). Still, I am getting accustomed to the sound, getting some good fine-tuning accomplished, and hope that some more break-in will give me a bit more heft, allowing me to back off the knob somewhat. Time will tell.
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SE84UFO3-25th, CSP3-25th.Taboo Mk IV+MK III;Rega P3 w/modPS Audio:DMP+DSD,P10,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs; Mapleshade:SamsonV2+V3,double helix Plus spark cbl;Oppo UDP205;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner; headphones: PM1,HD800S,LCD-
  IP Logged
JOMAN
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 306
Re: Anniversary Mods for the ZROCK2
Reply #41 - 03/17/19 at 01:29:48
 
That’s interesting about the RCA 5814A, just about got one to try.  I just bought a couple of RCA 5963 Long Grey Plate.  My curiosity about the 5963’s is getting the better of me.  My life in tube rolling is very similar with all the back up inventory I’ve accumulated.  The wife issued an edict - figure it out and sell some!  She’s right.

My ZR-2 isn’t cranked in fact I can’t even get to the three o’clock position at best it’s at 2 o’clock.  The Tubes in the UFO-25 remain unchanged and I never felt that I needed to. Actually its much like yours, OA3’s, OD3W, original output tubes with the input being the exception... a TF PCC189.  This one was a surprise.  Nothing like the typical German house sound.  I think that this one is contributing to the bass and the ones in the CSP-3 driving the slam and impact.  Of course I had to get back up TF PCC189’s  ;).

Hope you can get the bass restored, I get that.  And now you’ve got me wondering about the 5189a’s.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 15464
Re: Anniversary Mods for the ZROCK2
Reply #42 - 03/17/19 at 01:43:39
 
We must have some fundamentally different things going on cabling wise or room wise or both to have such a different frequency balance going on.

I've hardly ever had any luck with NOS Telefunken, too thin and brittle sounding for me. In contrast there's a new reissue that came within the Magnum Dynalab 90T SE tuner that I have that is totally different and quite nice. But it's a new tube, and I'm not sure that it has any real resemblance to an original.

The 6N11 I could not tolerate in my system, way too bright.

The voltage regulation tubes are different in our amps. My input tubes are governed by an OA2 type, tucked inside the component on the underside of the chassis. My output tubes are regulated by the OD3W.

I too hope that that there's a little more bass. We'll see.
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SE84UFO3-25th, CSP3-25th.Taboo Mk IV+MK III;Rega P3 w/modPS Audio:DMP+DSD,P10,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs; Mapleshade:SamsonV2+V3,double helix Plus spark cbl;Oppo UDP205;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner; headphones: PM1,HD800S,LCD-
  IP Logged
JOMAN
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 306
Re: Anniversary Mods for the ZROCK2
Reply #43 - 03/17/19 at 02:46:10
 
Actually more is probably different than the same.  The system is now in the downstairs renovated area.  Over all about 13’ x 25’ With 8’ ceilings.  I didn’t consider room acoustics but probably fluked out.  Floor is Cork Floating floor with a large 9’ x 12’ Hand knotted wool area rug.  Ceilings are suspended on resilient channel with two layers of safe and sound insulation with the appropriate air spaces or standoff’s.  The fireplace sits in a jut out to the exterior that is 4’ X 2’ x 8’.  The top half of this space is closed off with a vent space across the top of about 1.25” by 4’.  I suspect that this is acting as a bass trap of sorts.

A hallway intersects the 25’ Length forming a T.  Then there’s also drops to enclose the ducting all of the drywall is 5/8 Fire Rated, very dense and heavy.  The system is set up in more of a near field way than before.  Before it was on the main floor in a 14’ x 25’ space with 9’ ceilings.  It’s going to take a lot less room treatment than I expected in the new space.  Ironically today I pushed my speakers a little more into the room, the front being 3’ away from the wall.

The cabling is all Decware; Modified DHC-1 power cords, Silver Reference IC’s, Modded Decware speaker cable.  The SPIDF between the OPPO and the ZDSD is a Snake River, Boomslang (where do these names come from), replaced my Deluxe TFA.  This cable shifted the frequency balance quite a bit along with quite a change in the character of the voices.

So there are some fundamental differences.  Interestingly, despite the differences and different components in principle I’ve been able to benefit from a lot of your feed back and also for other forum members like Will, and developed similar habits.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 15464
Re: Anniversary Mods for the ZROCK2
Reply #44 - 03/17/19 at 02:59:19
 
Yes, different rooms, different cabling. The rooms are what are against me with the bass frequencies. The OG ZROCK2 saved me in my former place for it, and my new place, the modded ZROCK2 is just barely.

I don't use coaxial in my system now! HDMI for my DAC and optical from my DVR to my Oppo downstairs. PS Audio power cabling and VooDoo cable interconnects with the exception of one pair of Take Five Audio Neotech Deluxe XLR from phono preamp to ZTPRE.  Years ago I used Decware cabling.

It's the room putting me in this situation. And I can't do treatment. Ah well. I'll try different speaker isolation tomorrow, may help. As I say I can get there but the ZROCK2 is MAXED! I think I'll be fine as time passes.
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SE84UFO3-25th, CSP3-25th.Taboo Mk IV+MK III;Rega P3 w/modPS Audio:DMP+DSD,P10,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs; Mapleshade:SamsonV2+V3,double helix Plus spark cbl;Oppo UDP205;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner; headphones: PM1,HD800S,LCD-
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 15464
Re: Anniversary Mods for the ZROCK2
Reply #45 - 03/18/19 at 14:31:51
 
Okay, two more days of break-in and playing about. The GE 5814A is proving to be a very detailed yet balanced tube and it has stayed in. I am vacillating between OA3 and OD3W regulation tubes for the power tubes. The OA3 are meaty and bouncy, maybe a bit too much so. The OD3 are beguilingly micro-dynamic and quietly detailed, but a bit lean. OB3 may be the ticket indeed--I have a pair of RCA ordered that may be here Thursday or so.

The biggest improvement was speaker isolation and positioning. I lowered the speaker height a few inches with different isolation strategies and eliminated toe-in. This has given me a more favorable tonal balance--I can park the ZROCK2 at about 22 minutes past the hour much of the time. An improvement!

The micro detail improvement with these mods is game changing, very much like an expensive component upgrade (which it can be viewed as). A totally different animal than the original ZROCK2. I think I might like it to resemble its predecessor just a bit more. We'll see what it's like in a few weeks.
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SE84UFO3-25th, CSP3-25th.Taboo Mk IV+MK III;Rega P3 w/modPS Audio:DMP+DSD,P10,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs; Mapleshade:SamsonV2+V3,double helix Plus spark cbl;Oppo UDP205;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner; headphones: PM1,HD800S,LCD-
  IP Logged
mark58
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 5417
Re: Anniversary Mods for the ZROCK2
Reply #46 - 03/18/19 at 15:10:34
 
Lon, in my ZP3, I long ago settled on RCA Triple Mica 5814s, so that's what I put in my ZROCK2s and haven't experimented further.  The Black plate GE triple Mica 5814s are almost as good as the RCA but make sure they are Black plates not the grey plates which I think are also out there...

I'm not sure what the prices are now...bought all mine fairly cheap

For the RCAs, both the white and red labels are good...I think the white labels are older
Back to top
 
 

"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils;
The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted." William Shakespeare
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 15464
Re: Anniversary Mods for the ZROCK2
Reply #47 - 03/18/19 at 15:30:37
 
I've only tried these triple mica with extra support rod grey plate, and I like them a lot so I'll hold off trying any others (if I get a ZP3 again I'll definitely try them there, never did when I had mine). The different sources seem to call out for different tube types.

This pair is really nice for the main system though an Amperex Bugle Boy Holland 12AU7 is really doing great in the ZROCK2 in my second system.
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SE84UFO3-25th, CSP3-25th.Taboo Mk IV+MK III;Rega P3 w/modPS Audio:DMP+DSD,P10,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs; Mapleshade:SamsonV2+V3,double helix Plus spark cbl;Oppo UDP205;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner; headphones: PM1,HD800S,LCD-
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 15464
Re: Anniversary Mods for the ZROCK2
Reply #48 - 03/20/19 at 20:33:32
 
Okay, more time has passed and things are sounding better as far as lower frequencies. I decided to change speaker cabling, which really helped, the PS Audio xStream Statement is in now, and putting OD3W in the amps helps to get me the wonderful openness that the Mapleshade Audio Double Helix Plus were bringing to the system, plus the cabling has a fuller bass sound that is welcome.

And Mark, I decided to order a pair of the RCA black plate triple mica 5814A you recommend. The GE grey plates are sounding so good. . . I might as well try the RCA.
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SE84UFO3-25th, CSP3-25th.Taboo Mk IV+MK III;Rega P3 w/modPS Audio:DMP+DSD,P10,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs; Mapleshade:SamsonV2+V3,double helix Plus spark cbl;Oppo UDP205;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner; headphones: PM1,HD800S,LCD-
  IP Logged
JOMAN
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 306
Re: Anniversary Mods for the ZROCK2
Reply #49 - 03/22/19 at 01:37:21
 
You may have done this already but if you haven’t try EQ B, down position.  I just did, still lots of detail and the treble is better controlled.  I was able to increase the gain on the CSP-3 calibration setting and had more usable volume and as for the bass, had to back off the setting on the ZR-2 a little on some recordings.  Definitely do not need a sub.  The manual says that in this setting you can adjust to get a nice dry hit - NO KIDDING!
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print