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ZMA Compared to TORII Monoblocks (Read 3397 times)
NormD
Seasoned Member
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Posts: 186
ZMA Compared to TORII Monoblocks
03/13/18 at 20:54:26
 
Anyone compare the ZMA to the TORII Monoblocks   Is it worth the difference in money ?
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OPPO Sonica DAC
Technics SL-1200M3D Turntable
SoundSmith The Voice cartridge
JRMedia Center running on a MacMini
Oppo 103D for video
Marantz AV8802a Pre
ZTPre & ZMA for Stereo
Rotel RMB-1585 amp
Focal Electra 1038Be speakers (93 db)
2Hsu Research ULS-15 M
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stone_of_tone
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Listen Often/Listen
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Posts: 3217
Re: ZMA Compared to TORII Monoblocks
Reply #1 - 03/13/18 at 21:05:02
 
I have been waiting like you for someone to chime in about them.
....just for fun

....I'm good with my ZMA Smiley


http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1464566312/15#15

Well, I will say, ....I want more recent reports....CoffsKids was cool... .
....and neac1976 owns them too.
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Room Treats-M.Green & mine
Sony TPort
Illuminati D60
Shunyata Z-Alpha DigPcord
Decware ZDSD DAC
Kimber Select KS1030
XLOProPcord
Decware ZMA/25th Mods
Kimber Select KS6063
Acoustic Zen Adagio/Modified
Kimber PK10 Palladian from wall
to PS Audio P3
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Archie
Seasoned Member
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Posts: 1394
Re: ZMA Compared to TORII Monoblocks
Reply #2 - 03/13/18 at 23:22:45
 
Stone, thanks for that link.  I like them much better in white.  LOL

Didn't Steve compare the Monos and ZMA in the  ZMA development thread?  I remember him saying that there wasn't a significant difference in volume (couple dbs?).  My memory says the ZMA was awfully close.  Imagine 4 big caps though!   Cheesy
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Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
HR1s (Upgrd - top & bass drivers & X-ovr)
Silver Cabling
DIY Isolation platforms under everything.
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Archie
Seasoned Member
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Posts: 1394
Re: ZMA Compared to TORII Monoblocks
Reply #3 - 03/13/18 at 23:44:25
 
http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1365130519/91#91

Quote:
I took an opportunity last night to listen to it on non-decware speakers which the amplifier is largely targeted to... i.e. $7500.00 and up loudspeakers that are the typical 86 / 87dB sensitivity. †To that effect Dave Janszen came over with his latest electrostatic hybrids and we compared the TORII MONO's to the Mystery Amp until 1:30 A.M. and both liked the Mystery Amp a bit more. †It was sweeter, a bit more organic and smoother. †We started with the TORII MKIII but it didn't match well and had some detectible distortion in the low frequencies when turned up. †The Monos made the speakers sing so we used them for most of the evening. †The Mystery amp was tried in the final hours to see what would happen and we could detect no difference in power despite it being probably close to half that of the monos.


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Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
HR1s (Upgrd - top & bass drivers & X-ovr)
Silver Cabling
DIY Isolation platforms under everything.
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NormD
Seasoned Member
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Posts: 186
Re: ZMA Compared to TORII Monoblocks
Reply #4 - 03/14/18 at 00:23:38
 
Thanks for this feedback!  I called Steve today and got pretty much the same opinion.  I'm sticking with my ZMA and will wait and see if Steve comes out with a 25th Anniversary upgrade like he did with the SE84UFO.
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OPPO Sonica DAC
Technics SL-1200M3D Turntable
SoundSmith The Voice cartridge
JRMedia Center running on a MacMini
Oppo 103D for video
Marantz AV8802a Pre
ZTPre & ZMA for Stereo
Rotel RMB-1585 amp
Focal Electra 1038Be speakers (93 db)
2Hsu Research ULS-15 M
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Archie
Seasoned Member
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Posts: 1394
Re: ZMA Compared to TORII Monoblocks
Reply #5 - 03/14/18 at 00:37:48
 
I'm curious about what the Monos offer at that price compared to the other amps at this point.  Has Steve made them obsolete or is the marginal gain just not worth it unless money is really not an issue?
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Technics 1200G TT w/ Ortofon Jubilee MC cart
ZMC1
ZP3 (25th A Mods)
ZR2 (25th A Mods)
CSP3 (25th A mods)
ZMA (25th A mods)
HR1s (Upgrd - top & bass drivers & X-ovr)
Silver Cabling
DIY Isolation platforms under everything.
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stone_of_tone
Seasoned Member
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Listen Often/Listen
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Posts: 3217
Re: ZMA Compared to TORII Monoblocks
Reply #6 - 03/14/18 at 15:51:53
 
Same here Norm.....I am sticking with the ZMA and see if Steve comes out with a 25th Anniversary upgrade like he did with the SE84UFO. Well, actually he is doing to an entry level..... .

My modified Adagio's, .... could be driven by the SE84UFO3(25th).
However, I DO NOT want to get back into that output tube or rectifier either. Lon, should have no problem driving his 92.5db @ 1 watt/1 meter HR-1's. I can see his interest and why he purchased these Mono's with Steve's bypass caps and what the original Zen topology of his can do with that output tube.

But once again, and Archie thanks for that quote, .....good reminder of what the ZMA can run/JansZen's.....and how comparable it is to the Big Mono's....as clearly stated.

Till we hear from Steve down the road about the ZMA and viable bypass (if any/or ever)....I'm looking forward to word about J of A's (Jeff's) Experiment in SPEED...found in this ZMA Forum.

Steve makes the speed issue quite clear in his reply #670 in the Development Thread/in General Forum. However, what Jeff is doing is completely reversible an could give some insight about the ZMA being enhanced (potentially) with these Mundorf....specifically created power caps. ....Film = Speed.

So why the interest, if the ZMA is so great as is...and it is...believe me and if I live with her for the rest of my days, just as she is...that is so fine.
But, Why Not? Is it not in our nature? Furthermore, in light of Steve's recent developments in bypass....why would we not want to tweak our ZMA's...from the master himself, right?

So, whether from Steve in bypass discovery or Jeff in film power caps/specifically designed for power (OR HYBRID-combining both of these by Steve).....I'm all for the potential!
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Room Treats-M.Green & mine
Sony TPort
Illuminati D60
Shunyata Z-Alpha DigPcord
Decware ZDSD DAC
Kimber Select KS1030
XLOProPcord
Decware ZMA/25th Mods
Kimber Select KS6063
Acoustic Zen Adagio/Modified
Kimber PK10 Palladian from wall
to PS Audio P3
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NormD
Seasoned Member
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Posts: 186
Re: ZMA Compared to TORII Monoblocks
Reply #7 - 03/14/18 at 16:05:59
 
What are folks using for interconnects between their upstream devices (PreAmp or other) and the ZMA?  Iím using Voodoo Evolutions but I have a pair of Morrow MA6 I can put in line. Other suggestions?
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OPPO Sonica DAC
Technics SL-1200M3D Turntable
SoundSmith The Voice cartridge
JRMedia Center running on a MacMini
Oppo 103D for video
Marantz AV8802a Pre
ZTPre & ZMA for Stereo
Rotel RMB-1585 amp
Focal Electra 1038Be speakers (93 db)
2Hsu Research ULS-15 M
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Lon
Seasoned Member
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"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 15818
Re: ZMA Compared to TORII Monoblocks
Reply #8 - 03/14/18 at 16:21:59
 
I'm using VooDoo Cable Steradivarius Cremona and Amati, both balanced and single-ended and love them. I started out with Evolution. . . going up the VooDoo Cable stable was very satisfactory.
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HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SE84UFO3-25th, CSP3-25th.Taboo Mk IV+MK III;Rega P3 w/modPS Audio:DMP+DSD,P10,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs; Mapleshade:SamsonV2+V3,double helix Plus spark cbl;Oppo UDP205;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner; headphones: PM1,HD800S,LCD-
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stone_of_tone
Seasoned Member
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Listen Often/Listen
Deep

Posts: 3217
Re: ZMA Compared to TORII Monoblocks
Reply #9 - 03/14/18 at 16:25:28
 
Norm, you're running pretty good stuff already. You can see what I prefer below, for my ears.

Very profound for me is the simpatico of the KS1030 with the all copper KS6063. Not hyperbole, to say it is stunning.

Room treatment is so extremely important too ~ in an dedicated Room.

....and yes, this particular Transport I use....and I have two new/in their boxes/on the shelf......no need for the high dollar stuff....that yes, I have had in my Listening Room.

Furthermore, great Speaker's....and you own a great pair. My modified Acoustic Zen Adagio's.....have crushed all the competition that have entered...and that has been quite a few.

....and of course, Tube Rolling the best on the Planet/still available....as you know Norm.








Listening Room:



Room Treatments from Michael Green & my Home Brew


Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)
Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC ~.5 meter


Shunyata Research Zitron Alpha Digital Power Cord to ZDSD {Significant}


Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder
***************************************************************
W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the Curb quite a few superb DAC'S
***************************************************************
(@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192)



WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030 ~.75 meter


Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
~BIASED at *56* mA~
NOS/Platinum/Mullard E188CC/7308's in my A12 an B12 Input positions Cryogenic~NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Inverter Tubes~NOS RCA 0A3's & matched Quad/Tung-Sol KT66's or 6P3S-E's




***************************************************
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades
***************************************************



Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)
.....enjoying from 8 ohm ZMA Taps


Caintuck Audio Eminence Alpha 15" OB BASS Unit
at 43Hz, with my Velodyne CHT 130 watt plate amp and 0 degree phase
Plate Amp....regen'd clean ~ plugged into P3
Auralex Subdude (a must)
(NOTE: Only needed when the recording calls for...Open Baffle Bass has been the best integration I have witnessed when needed and called on)







Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)


ZMA, updated with robust Western Electric Bias/Balance Meter's and new Resistor's ~ Feb/17

XLO Pro Power Cord to ZMA
Shunyata Research Zitron Alpha Digital Power Cord to ZDSD {Significant}
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport and ZDSD, Regenerated/*120*~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output)
System configured on Floor ~ Townshend Audio CD Seismic Sink deployed.
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Room Treats-M.Green & mine
Sony TPort
Illuminati D60
Shunyata Z-Alpha DigPcord
Decware ZDSD DAC
Kimber Select KS1030
XLOProPcord
Decware ZMA/25th Mods
Kimber Select KS6063
Acoustic Zen Adagio/Modified
Kimber PK10 Palladian from wall
to PS Audio P3
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Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 15818
Re: ZMA Compared to TORII Monoblocks
Reply #10 - 03/14/18 at 16:29:06
 
From what Steve said seems unlikely that the same methodology for the 25th Anniversary changes will be able to be implemented in the non-Zen models.

I can understand I guess wanting to stay the same with those EL34 types and not wanting to face the regulator rolling, but I'm very happy to leave the EL34 push-pull behind, it's great for speakers that need the power but sonically the single-ended SV83 amps have a magic I really missed and I love the way rectifiers influence the circuit and the changes rolling them makes. The single-ended natural organic illuminated sound has really energized me.  I have been reveling in the sound of the SEP Taboo Mk IV (fed by the ZTPRE/ZBIT/ZROCK2 combo) and can't wait to hear the 25th Anniversary SET. I know it's going to change my listening world, "way" for the better.
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HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SE84UFO3-25th, CSP3-25th.Taboo Mk IV+MK III;Rega P3 w/modPS Audio:DMP+DSD,P10,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs; Mapleshade:SamsonV2+V3,double helix Plus spark cbl;Oppo UDP205;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner; headphones: PM1,HD800S,LCD-
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stone_of_tone
Seasoned Member
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Listen Often/Listen
Deep

Posts: 3217
Re: ZMA Compared to TORII Monoblocks
Reply #11 - 03/14/18 at 16:38:45
 
The ZMA is its own animal in power and finesse....Steve will visit it one day in bypass of its own doing/(ZMA). Furthermore, their is a Mundorf power film cap experiment going on too.

If it does not work out....my ZMA is fine....and it will save me $ Smiley

....and yes, as mentioned above/with mention of you Lon...the magic of the SV83 Amps....undeniable.
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Room Treats-M.Green & mine
Sony TPort
Illuminati D60
Shunyata Z-Alpha DigPcord
Decware ZDSD DAC
Kimber Select KS1030
XLOProPcord
Decware ZMA/25th Mods
Kimber Select KS6063
Acoustic Zen Adagio/Modified
Kimber PK10 Palladian from wall
to PS Audio P3
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Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 15818
Re: ZMA Compared to TORII Monoblocks
Reply #12 - 03/14/18 at 16:46:14
 
Well, i wish you lots of patience. I think my mono blocks will have parts pulled soon. Exciting times for me!
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HR-1,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SE84UFO3-25th, CSP3-25th.Taboo Mk IV+MK III;Rega P3 w/modPS Audio:DMP+DSD,P10,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs; Mapleshade:SamsonV2+V3,double helix Plus spark cbl;Oppo UDP205;VooDoo:Cremona+Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner; headphones: PM1,HD800S,LCD-
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stone_of_tone
Seasoned Member
****


Listen Often/Listen
Deep

Posts: 3217
Re: ZMA Compared to TORII Monoblocks
Reply #13 - 03/14/18 at 16:46:24
 
Norm, I forgot to mention in my reply #9...if the P cord to your Oppo DAC is detachable... .  Upgrading it is worth the time.

I went with the Cable CO's loaner library and the Shunyata I have (now replaced by newer model)....brought Steve's ZDSD with output trannies of his topology...to another level. My 2 cents.
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Room Treats-M.Green & mine
Sony TPort
Illuminati D60
Shunyata Z-Alpha DigPcord
Decware ZDSD DAC
Kimber Select KS1030
XLOProPcord
Decware ZMA/25th Mods
Kimber Select KS6063
Acoustic Zen Adagio/Modified
Kimber PK10 Palladian from wall
to PS Audio P3
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stone_of_tone
Seasoned Member
****


Listen Often/Listen
Deep

Posts: 3217
Re: ZMA Compared to TORII Monoblocks
Reply #14 - 03/14/18 at 16:50:26
 
Yes! Awesome Lon....and I'm excited about them. I look forward to your impressions. My Speaker sensitivity is in bed with your awesome HR-1's you possess. It was many years ago I heard them at Decware.... .

I think the SE84UFO325's....are going to run them very well. I can just be jealous...and I should never say never....about a pair of them for me too.....future.
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Room Treats-M.Green & mine
Sony TPort
Illuminati D60
Shunyata Z-Alpha DigPcord
Decware ZDSD DAC
Kimber Select KS1030
XLOProPcord
Decware ZMA/25th Mods
Kimber Select KS6063
Acoustic Zen Adagio/Modified
Kimber PK10 Palladian from wall
to PS Audio P3
  IP Logged
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