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Decware SE84UFO MONO Bridge Setup (Read 9751 times)
duran599
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Decware SE84UFO MONO Bridge Setup
01/17/18 at 15:42:51
 
Greetings,

I recently ordered the Decware SE84UFO amp and have a few questions about a bridged mono setup.

Currently, I have it set to a stereo set up with two Klipsch La Scala's and a Alpha Recording System Mixer. (model 4100) I plan on buying another SE84UFO soon in order to run a monoblock setup.

My first question has to do with sound degradation. The manual states, "When you bridge this amplifier the output typically more than doubles
and gets closer to 6 waHs rather than 4 waHs due to it’s nature of
pushing out more power as the speaker ohms drop. "


What exactly does it mean by speaker ohms dropping? I completely understand the fact that it more than doubles the output...but does the ohms dropping effect my setup with the La Scala's being 8 ohms?

My second question has to do with the actual bridge mono connections.
The manual states,
"To wire the amplifier for mono two things have to happen.
1) A signal must be fed into both input jacks, usually accomplished
with a Y-Cable.


Its not very clear but I assume its talking about the RCA inputs. I have my mixer running into Source A. But since it says both do I need to run a RCA Y-Cable into source B as well.

Apologies in advance if these questions are a bit basic or stupid. Ha, I'm pretty new at this. I'm more of a record guy.... slowly learning and building a HI FI dj setup.

Thanks Mucho!
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Lon
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Re: Decware SE84UFO MONO Bridge Setup
Reply #1 - 01/17/18 at 16:43:54
 
i think that the ohm dropping is in reference to the way the amp and the speakers interact. I don't believe you'll encounter audible sonic degradation with your speakers.

And no, I think that what is meant is that if you wish to use two sources into two inputs on the amp, a Y-connector must be used with each input. If you are just using one input, your mixer, you just need to use a Y-connector with that.
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duran599
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Re: Decware SE84UFO MONO Bridge Setup
Reply #2 - 01/17/18 at 17:03:52
 
Thanks for the reply Lon,

So instead of going directly into the Inputs on the amp, I have to use an RCA Y-Connector first and then connect RCA cables from that to my mixer?
Is that correct?

If possible, can you link me with the proper Y-Connector?

Thank You!
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Lon
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Re: Decware SE84UFO MONO Bridge Setup
Reply #3 - 01/17/18 at 17:12:04
 
Right, the Y-Connector will take one channel of the mixer output and split it so that you can feed one to each of the mono blocked amps.

I don't have personal experience using high qua lity Y-connectors. . . I've only ever used them in the past in very low fidelity systems. www.audioadvisor.com offers a Pangea and an Audioquest version either of which should be okay. Perhaps others with experience using Y-connectors / Y-cabling with Decware equipment may chime in. . . .
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deucekazoo
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Re: Decware SE84UFO MONO Bridge Setup
Reply #4 - 01/17/18 at 17:28:20
 
It should be connected like this.
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amp_mono.png
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deucekazoo
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Re: Decware SE84UFO MONO Bridge Setup
Reply #5 - 01/17/18 at 17:29:52
 
Speaker connection
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amp_mono1.png
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duran599
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Re: Decware SE84UFO MONO Bridge Setup
Reply #6 - 01/17/18 at 18:58:50
 
Thanks again for all the help on this.

I think i'm understanding how to accomplish this setup. My last question is what type of cable would go from the Y connector to my mixer? The Alpha mixer has RCA outs for House and Booth. However, I would like to drive both Monoblocks into the House RCA channel.

So again, from the female out Y-Connector would I use a single male RCA cable from both Monoblocks into the red and white RCA out of the Mixers House RCA channel. Does a single male RCA cable even exist?

Please look at the quick sketch provided and if possible. Let me know if im understanding this correctly. [img][/img]

Again, thank you everyone for your time.
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Setup.jpg
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deucekazoo
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Re: Decware SE84UFO MONO Bridge Setup
Reply #7 - 01/17/18 at 19:49:55
 
The RCA cables you have right now should have a male connector on each side. Most of the better cables are not connected together. So when you buy a pair you have a cable for the right and a separate cable for the left. even if you are using the cheaper RCA cable that are glued together you can rip them apart to have two cables. Now the RCA Y cable you are going to get should have a female connector on the one side and then two male connectors on the other. Your RCA male connector should plug into the female Y connection and then the two male connections from the Y will plug into your mono block amp.
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Martindfletcher
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Re: Decware SE84UFO MONO Bridge Setup
Reply #8 - 01/17/18 at 20:23:36
 
I had steve wire mine for mono, but when I was doing research this was the only high quality y cable I could find.  There maybe more, but here is what I found:

http://morrowaudio.com/audiophile-and-home-theater/y-cables
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duran599
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Re: Decware SE84UFO MONO Bridge Setup
Reply #9 - 01/17/18 at 21:15:08
 
You guys are fantastic!!!

Thank you so much for your time and helping me through this process.
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duran599
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Re: Decware SE84UFO MONO Bridge Setup
Reply #10 - 01/18/18 at 07:12:00
 
I apologize everyone. I guess I have one more question regarding that Y Connection.

Morrow Audio has a Y connector (2 RCA male for the Y & an XLR female for the single end)

Would it be wiser to use a male to female XLR cable from the Y connector to my mixer. Its about 12 to 15 feet away from my speakers and the monoblocks. I read that XLR cables are better for longer runs.

Or would it be better to run RCA's for sound quality. Im not sure if XLR's would degrade the sound at all.

Thanks guys!

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Dave1210
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Re: Decware SE84UFO MONO Bridge Setup
Reply #11 - 01/18/18 at 11:49:34
 
For longer runs of interconnect, XLR would typically be better because of the noise rejection.

For your application, I think you're going to need an XLR-->RCA converter before going into the Y cable.  I don't have any experience with these, but I'm sure someone here could recommend a good one.  

There are folks on this forum that like Alpha Goertz cables, and it looks like they offer Y cables as well (scroll down to the bottom of the page after clicking on the link below).  This could be another high quality Y cable option.  

https://www.thecableco.com/alpha_core_goertz.html

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Re: Decware SE84UFO MONO Bridge Setup
Reply #12 - 01/18/18 at 12:51:53
 
If looking for XLR to RCA adaptors I've used four now and these in this thread are clearly superior. I believe they make them for both inputs and outputs and they are not REALLY expensive, about 45 dollars a pair. They are used by manufacturers of very expensive cables and I can see why--they are very transparent and "invisible."

http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1512236315/1#1
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seikosha
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Re: Decware SE84UFO MONO Bridge Setup
Reply #13 - 01/19/18 at 18:53:36
 
Once you bridge two UFO's, you are no longer running them as a SET amp...is that correct.  Would it be some sort of push pull configuration then?
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Lon
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Re: Decware SE84UFO MONO Bridge Setup
Reply #14 - 01/19/18 at 19:23:39
 
You're not splitting the signal and reamplifying it so no, it's not push-pull, you're still in single-ended mode. (At least that's how I understand it).
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Lonely Raven
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Re: Decware SE84UFO MONO Bridge Setup
Reply #15 - 01/19/18 at 20:01:20
 

Agreed - Push-Pull takes the sine wave and splits it - the push (positive) goes to one power tube and the pull (negative) goes to the other tube.

When you're bridging I believe you're going series or parallel depending on amp topology and how you connect it.

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seikosha
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Re: Decware SE84UFO MONO Bridge Setup
Reply #16 - 01/19/18 at 20:04:20
 
Thanks guys.  What I don't understand is why doesn't Steve make a single chassis bridged SE84.  Seems like it would sell quite well right?
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Lonely Raven
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Re: Decware SE84UFO MONO Bridge Setup
Reply #17 - 01/19/18 at 20:08:55
 

IMO - when you're bridging, there are more parts/variables in the mix. It's not the exact same sound (purity?) as the un-bridged amp. There is a point when you have to just use a bigger amp.

Next Best Thing.

http://www.decware.com/newsite/SE84UFO3.html

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Re: Decware SE84UFO MONO Bridge Setup
Reply #18 - 01/19/18 at 21:00:54
 
seikosha wrote on 01/19/18 at 20:04:20:
Thanks guys.  What I don't understand is why doesn't Steve make a single chassis bridged SE84.  Seems like it would sell quite well right?

I would never say never. As Steve has mentioned that the UFO transformers negate the sonic degradation that occurred with previous transformers he's been more favorable about bridging than he was before. With the new
"Anniversary" design and an interest in bridged pairs from many who want to drive more demanding speakers. . . it wouldn't surprise me if he thought of a bridged pair in one chassis as a new model.
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duran599
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Re: Decware SE84UFO MONO Bridge Setup
Reply #19 - 01/20/18 at 17:07:42
 
Hey Everyone,

Thanks for all the feedback on this post. I've learned a ton from it.

As I mentioned previously, I'm using the SE84UFO to amplify two Type AA Klipsch La Scala's. However, I am interested in the Decware Monoblocks (SE84UFO3) as well.

In the long run I planned on powering each La Scala with a SE84UFO at 6 watts. However, I know these are very efficient speakers.

I would like some personal opinions. Is 2.7 watts plenty of power for each La Scala? Or should I stick with my Bridged plan and go with 6 watts per La Scala? I totally believe in using the amp for its intended purpose. That being said I would rather have strict Monoblocks for each setup. But is that 6 watts a game changer for the La Scalas?

Thanks!

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mark58
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Re: Decware SE84UFO MONO Bridge Setup
Reply #20 - 01/20/18 at 17:45:58
 
I just looked up the La Scala... at 105 dB, the Monos would be fine.  I run my 2.3 WPC Monoblocks from 2008 with Zu Audio "Souls" at 99 dB and some Omegas at about 93 or 94 dB without a problem...plenty of headroom with the Souls...less with the Omegas. So the new Monoblocks at 2.7 WPC would work great.  Mark.
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Lon
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Re: Decware SE84UFO MONO Bridge Setup
Reply #21 - 01/20/18 at 17:51:13
 
I think it may depend on your current setup and impressions. Are you completely happy with the sound you have now? Do you feel you LACK power?

If you don't feel lacking in the power department then I would suggest considering bridged SE84UFOs. You'll get mostly the same sonic qualities and more headroom. If you feel that your speakers don't really need more power, then the SE84UFO3 may well be the better choice. In my experience when you don't really NEED more power more power itself isn't always a step up. The mono blocks should offer you a bit more power (and your speakers should react to a bit more power from this amp topology almost as well as three times the power--just my guess from what I've read of them) AND the mono blocks should offer you a bit more resolution/transparency. So it could be the biggest "win."

In either case if you're happy now, and seems you are, I would recommend waiting to see what the 25th anniversary models ahead would bring to the lineup. . . either choice with the new circuitry design may give you big rewards compared to the present lineup. And who knows, there may be more than two amps in the lineup that will receive 25th Anniversary redesigns. . . what if there were a bridged Zen in one chassis (like the Torii/ZMA chassis) choice, or if the Taboo were offered with this new tech? Those two could also be good contenders for your situation. . . .
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Re: Decware SE84UFO MONO Bridge Setup
Reply #22 - 01/20/18 at 17:58:08
 
We'll have to wait and see but I get the impression with all the added Caps in the 25th Anniversary designs, that the Mono's with it will greatly increase in price...hope I'm wrong.  On the bright side though, there may be a pair of UFO3s on the used market if the Monos are offered in the new design.  That's what I'm going to be looking for...love my 2008 Monos but the UFO transformers have me curious...

I think the best advise is Lon's...wait for all the new Amp offerings if you are satisfied enough with your current setup.  Every new Amp gets the introductory offer treatment giving hundreds off for being one of the first owners of new designs.  Mark
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Lon
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Re: Decware SE84UFO MONO Bridge Setup
Reply #23 - 01/20/18 at 18:29:12
 
Yes, I don't doubt that the price will have a big hike, but at least the current SE84UFO3 mono blocks come with the Jupiter caps already, one portion of a price hike possibly avoided. . . .
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Re: Decware SE84UFO MONO Bridge Setup
Reply #24 - 01/20/18 at 23:09:10
 
I'd go with Lon's advice ... if your satisfied with the volume and sound with your current Zen amp then the 25th anniversary mono's will kick it up to an even higher notch.  However if you feel you're current setup is running out of steam then a bridged pair would be better as it will give you a little headroom.

With that said ~ I'd have to say that bridged it not the best in terms of purity as a few other have mentioned on the forums and even Lonely Raven mentioned above ...

"there are more parts/variables in the mix. It's not the exact same sound (purity?) as the un-bridged amp."

So my advice ... if you have enough power trade up to the 25th mono's.  If you are running out of steam go with the bridged pair of Zens or move up to a bigger amp like the Torii Junior.
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Re: Decware SE84UFO MONO Bridge Setup
Reply #25 - 01/21/18 at 00:05:06
 
I think what you and Eric are saying WAS true. But the UFO transformers have changed that for the Zen. Look what Steve writes on the SE84UFO page:




Worried about 2 huger than life SET watts not being enough power?

The SE84UFO employs a unique floating output transformer scheme where the negative speaker wire is not tied to chassis ground. That means when the amp is bridged, both channels may either be series or parallel wired. In series, both channels work as one and transparency is preserved.

So with no sonic drawbacks to running the amps in mono, you can expect 6 dB of additional power rather then the expected 3dB. This is thanks to the power increase the amp has when it sees half the speaker load from being series bridged.
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Re: Decware SE84UFO MONO Bridge Setup
Reply #26 - 01/21/18 at 00:44:17
 
Yes, Lon.  And to add to this, I asked Steve about bridging the 25th Anniversary amps and he stated that the method of bridging, using either of the two methods, can act as a voicing tool.  That is why he prefers not to offer a factory “Mono” version of these 25th Ann amps.  

If there was a sonic degredation to running any of the UFO’d Zen amp bridged, I believe his position on this would be different.
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Re: Decware SE84UFO MONO Bridge Setup
Reply #27 - 01/21/18 at 00:47:48
 
Thanks Jeff. I think I understand what you are saying about a "voicing tool" and why that means he doesn't want to offer it as a factory model . . .but maybe not.
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Re: Decware SE84UFO MONO Bridge Setup
Reply #28 - 01/21/18 at 01:11:40
 
Rather than bridging two Zen amps, why not just get two Rachels and bridge them to mono?
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Re: Decware SE84UFO MONO Bridge Setup
Reply #29 - 01/21/18 at 01:22:45
 
Jeff of Arabica wrote on 01/21/18 at 00:44:17:
Yes, Lon.  And to add to this, I asked Steve about bridging the 25th Anniversary amps and he stated that the method of bridging, using either of the two methods, can act as a voicing tool.  That is why he prefers not to offer a factory “Mono” version of these 25th Ann amps.  

If there was a sonic degredation to running any of the UFO’d Zen amp bridged, I believe his position on this would be different.


But isn't he currently listening/voicing/testing 25th Anniversary Mono's right now? Huh  He must have sensed some advantage or had a curiosity about them or they wouldn't be playing in his rack as we speak.

Lon wrote on 01/21/18 at 00:05:06:
I think what you and Eric are saying WAS true. But the UFO transformers have changed that for the Zen. Look what Steve writes on  the SE84UFO page:

Worried about 2 huger than life SET watts not being enough power?

The SE84UFO employs a unique floating output transformer scheme where the negative speaker wire is not tied to chassis ground. That means when the amp is bridged, both channels may either be series or parallel wired. In series, both channels work as one and transparency is preserved.

So with no sonic drawbacks to running the amps in mono, you can expect 6 dB of additional power rather then the expected 3dB. This is thanks to the power increase the amp has when it sees half the speaker load from being series bridged.


But coming from the perspective of the OP ... he already has 1 amp, so if he purchases another one ~ (IMO) it should have been at the exact same time and definitely should have the exact same parts, not to mention burn in already occurring with his current amp.   I'm trying to keep an open mind, but I'll stand by Eric's statement even with UFO's I think there is a lot of parts involved that may or may not take away some purity in comparison to real mono's.
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Re: Decware SE84UFO MONO Bridge Setup
Reply #30 - 01/21/18 at 01:37:46
 
Yes, he does have a set of monos in which whe applied the 25th Ann magic. It is an existing model in which he is considering offering an upgrade using his recent discoveries.

However, when it comes to offering a brand new product, i.e. the 25th Annoversary Zen, he doesn’t see a point in offering a mono option or mono verion of this particular amp. Upgrading existing Zen monos is a separate topic and even so, my guess is there will be differences between those upgraded monos and the “made from scratch” 25th Ann Amps. I must also believe there is no sonic degradation to bridging. And, based on my communication with Steve about this, there is an added benefit of using the two different bridging methods as a “voicing tool.”
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Re: Decware SE84UFO MONO Bridge Setup
Reply #31 - 01/21/18 at 01:55:39
 
beowulf wrote on 01/21/18 at 01:22:45:
I'm trying to keep an open mind, but I'll stand by Eric's statement even with UFO's I think there is a lot of parts involved that may or may not take away some purity in comparison to real mono's.

Well, we'll disagree. I personally don't believe so and take Steve's word as is. There are circuit differences between the Monoblocks and the SE84UFO but that's not to say that a bridged SE84UFO will loose sonic quality compared to a single one, Steve says they won't.

What Steve told me about the mono blocks he's listening to right now with 25th Anniversary tech is "You'll want a pair." (Which I don't disagree with!) So he'll be offering them one way or another. . . .
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Re: Decware SE84UFO MONO Bridge Setup
Reply #32 - 01/21/18 at 02:22:28
 
Jeff of Arabica wrote on 01/21/18 at 01:37:46:
And, based on my communication with Steve about this, there is an added benefit of using the two different bridging methods as a “voicing tool.”

That's clearer, thanks Jeff. Steve would make us a pair, I know. And if I were certain 2.7 watts per channel would work for me I would. I'll definitely consider a pair when they're in production or can be ordered. I think the current model looks beautiful.
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Re: Decware SE84UFO MONO Bridge Setup
Reply #33 - 01/21/18 at 03:08:54
 
Quote:
But isn't he currently listening/voicing/testing 25th Anniversary Mono's right now?


I think there is some ambiguity in terminology being used when discussing the one-and-only, "25th Anniversary Zen Amplifier" and upgrading existing models (including the SE84UFO3 monoblocks) with some of the technology in the anniversary update.  Having followed this thread very closely, and sending Steve a direct email about offering the "25th Anniversary Zen Amplifier" with the option to have it wired in mono, I am fairly certain, this "built from the ground up" Anniversary amp will not be offered in a monoblock version.  At least there is no indication he is considering it.

There has been lots of talk about upgrading some of the existing amps in the line up with some of the new technology/methodologies recently discovered through the R&D process of the 25th Anniversary Zen.  But the SE84UFO3 monoblocks are likely NOT going to be the 25th Anniversary Zen amp, simply in monoblock form.  If he was to do this, it would increase the cost of the SE84UFO3 monoblocks to $7500! (based on the early projection price tag on the 25th Ann Zen of $3500 each).  I don't see this happening.

So while the techniques of bypassing that Steve has shared will be implemented to some degree in these upgraded amps, he has mentioned in this thread that the number of capacitors (and likely other differences) will not be exactly the same as the new 25th Anniversary amp due to cost/circuit layout.  

My guess is  the price of the upgraded monoblocks will jump from $1195 each to probably somewhere around $2000+ each (pure guess here), but I can't see it going much higher if this new technology is implemented as standard design.  From what I have read from Steve's posts, he is looking to incorporate these advancements as standard design features in select amps, the SE84UFO3 monoblocks being one of them.

If I have to make a choice between the actual 25th Anniversary Zen Amp priced at $7500 for a pair (to be bridged) or a set of SE84UFO3 monoblocks with the "new anniversary advancements" priced somewhere around $4000+ for the pair,  I will choose the 25th Anniversary Zen's and I will then bridge them in series.

My point is this.  Steve's plan to incorporate these advancements in existing amp designs is NOT the same as the 25th Anniversary Amp that he is working to release this year at around $3500 each.  If these incorporated updates to existing amps were part-for-part exactly the same, their respective cost would have to significantly increase to the point of pricing out too many customers looking for more entry level amplifiers.  Each of these upgraded amps will benefit from these recent developments, but I can't see them being on same level as the 25th Anniversary simply due to cost of parts.  There is a reason Steve is likely going to charge $3500 for this amp.  It is unreasonable to think that other amps proposed to receive some of the anniversary updates (original Zen Amp, SE84UFO3 monoblocks, etc) are going to be on par with the 25th Anniversary.  Could they sound as good?  Possibly.  Possibly not.  All I know is they will be very different amps.  They have to be.  Otherwise the design and relative price disparity would not be there.  

P.S.:  I certainly don't want to speak on Steve's behalf.  These comments are purely my observations/opinion/interpretations based on the contents of this thread and my request for Steve to make a monoblock version of the 25th Anniversary Zen amp (which the answer was "no").   And I could be completely off my rocker here - which is certainly a real possibility.  
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Re: Decware SE84UFO MONO Bridge Setup
Reply #34 - 01/21/18 at 07:11:07
 
Well I guess I may have misunderstood his post here that he was listening to mono blocks with the anniversary update.  So I guess it isn't a full update... how many things were actually changed in order to call it the anniversary update?  Perhaps there were some things left out?

I read this from Steve:

"It is very apparent even in the first hours of listening to these monos that like the stereo unit, there is simply no grain in the high voltage power supply so even unburned in the amp has over the top liquidity. That means that the coupling caps are never going to see or experience grain ever in their service lifetime so I think this is having a profound effect on the sound of the cap as a result of how it is burning in.

The immediate difference I hear between the two at this awakening state is that the mono's have more power and more headroom. I'll keep you posted as things develop."


And thought that they were sounding the same it was just that the mono's had more power and headroom than a single 25th Zen.  It led me to believe that a pair of mono's (each with it's own dedicated power supply and circuit) would excel over a single Zen amp (especially in power and headroom, but also with its dedicated power supply would give it an edge as well).

Anyways, I'll bow out on this conversation at this point as I just may be misunderstanding things, but if there was going to be mono's with the same 25th anniversary circuit I would take a dedicated pair of mono blocks over a bridged pair any day ~ unless Steve can say without any doubts that a bridged pair and dedicated mono's have no differences when it comes to performance whatsoever other than headroom and at that point I would say why even offer mono's then? Cool
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Re: Decware SE84UFO MONO Bridge Setup
Reply #35 - 01/21/18 at 07:47:43
 
Who knows. (other than Steve of course   Smiley )  Lots of speculation.  

Bottom line, I would LOVE to have a set of 25th Anniversary monoblocks!!  So, if this SE84UFO3 monoblocks with the  anniversary update puts them on par (or perhaps better in some way), then I am in!

There is at least two design differences between the SE84UFO3 with "anniversary updates" and the 25th Anniversary Zen. One is the use of a single OA3 as opposed to a dual OA3 (25th Anniversary) configuration.  But based on Steve's post of that difference, there was no advantage/disadvantage identified.  The second one is of course the monoblock configuration as opposed to stereo.  Technically, it is different.  But, if it sounds as good, different really doesn't matter.  

With 11 additional capacitors thrown at the SE84UFO3 anniversary upgrade, I am curious what the price point will be for the set - and how that will compare to the price of a pair of 25th Anniversary Zen stereo amps.  

At the end of the day, I can only speculate and everything is still early, premature, and subject to change.  However, it's sure a lot of fun drooling over it all, isn't it?   Wink

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Re: Decware SE84UFO MONO Bridge Setup
Reply #36 - 01/21/18 at 13:41:00
 
Well in part we're talking semantics and in part we are speculating from information that will likely be proven more and more incomplete as time goes on.

I agree that if one has speakers that will handle a single 25th Anniversary Zen without need for a lot of further headroom a 25th Anniversary SE84UFO3 pair, whether a full blown model or an update incorporating the design, might be better than the single 25th anniversary Zen amp alone. But if you need more power for your speakers a bridged pair of the 25th Anniversary Zens would serve you well, and in one chassis would be a great boon. In my case I'm hoping that the output of a pair of redesigned mono blocks might suit me, but I think I may need to bridge a pair of the new model Zens for the power, and according to what Steve has written a bridged pair would not compromise sound quality. We'll see what models Steve produces and what he says about sound quality. I have some testing to do with the amps I have to see which models would work for me. I know that I want that SET sound again in my system after the better part of a decade of push-pull, especially as the SEP sound of my Taboo is pleasing me so much the past few days. So like the rest of us I'm waiting for dribs and drabs of news. . . .

Have a great Sunday everyone! My Taboo Mk IV is driving my HR-1s and bringing me a new listening perspective, and I'm happy.
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Re: Decware SE84UFO MONO Bridge Setup
Reply #37 - 01/21/18 at 15:34:42
 
While I enjoy reading about Steve's newest developments, including upgraded SE84UFO mono amps, I encourage everyone to take a breather on speculation.  Let's let the Decware Design Chief (DDC) do his thing and share his observations.

I know regular posters want as much information as possible, especially related to the new 25th Anniversary amp and possible mono amp upgrades, just remember Steve is running a business.  We all know he sweats the details and employs extensive personal "listening time" + has quite a build list he and his team attend to on a daily basis.

Just a thought to keep things moving forward in a positive light, no personal criticisms intended.

HK
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Re: Decware SE84UFO MONO Bridge Setup
Reply #38 - 01/21/18 at 15:40:43
 
HK,

I personally don't think there's any harm in our speculation and discussion. It fans the flames of interest and Steve spends as much time here as he wants and we're not keeping him or the team from any of their duties.

The information he gives blooms until he gives us more and that cycle builds and actually ends up inspiring wish lists and purchases. I could be wrong and if this is hampering the operations in any way I'm sure Steve will set me straight.

That said, this thread was actually created for another purpose and "25th Anniversary" talk is better suited to the "New Development" thread.
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Re: Decware SE84UFO MONO Bridge Setup
Reply #39 - 01/21/18 at 15:51:30
 
Quote:
But if you need more power for your speakers a bridged pair of the 25th Anniversary Zens would serve you well, and in one chassis would be a great boon.
.  

That would be a nice option! If it can reduce the price AND save me the price of power cable.... count me in!  I just bought (2) Analysis Plus Ultimate Oval power cords.  Yikes!

I feel I’m sitting perfectly with my Omega Super Alnico HO’s at 97dB.  A single Super Zen can make them sing.  I have one, and have mated the two.  However, I really want to have a little extra power and headroom at my disposal.  So for me, it will be a pair of 25th Anniversaries or a set of the upgraded/redesigned monoblocks.  

And I hear you Lon.  I love my push-pulls, but there is just something about the sweet SET sound.  



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Re: Decware SE84UFO MONO Bridge Setup
Reply #40 - 01/21/18 at 16:00:37
 
Plus, there is no fun in refraining from speculation  ;)

It certainly has me now thinking I may have two viable options to choose from - a pair of 25th Anniv Zen’s, or a set of SE84UFO3’s with the anniversary “special sauce.”
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Re: Decware SE84UFO MONO Bridge Setup
Reply #41 - 01/21/18 at 16:18:12
 
You guys are just too much.  Enjoy the speculative bantering.

HK
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Re: Decware SE84UFO MONO Bridge Setup
Reply #42 - 01/21/18 at 17:12:40
 
My two cents...If you enjoy the speculation...Continue... Smiley Mark
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Re: Decware SE84UFO MONO Bridge Setup
Reply #43 - 01/21/18 at 22:34:52
 
duran599,
I am amazed that La Scalas (one of the world's most efficient speakers) are not loud enough with a single EL84 tube. Did I misunderstand? Have you not yet played these speakers with a single unbridged stereo Zen amp?

If you have used this amp and found it lacking, I would ask if you are using a Decware preamp. Or any preamp. Perhaps the lack of a driven sound, instead of a lack of absolute loudness, is what you are missing.  

Brian
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Re: Decware SE84UFO MONO Bridge Setup
Reply #44 - 01/22/18 at 13:23:28
 
As most of us I dont really know what comes out of this periode With trial and error. What i understand is that Decware have found a New topology that contains a few changes from the standard Zen, and this discovery makes a finer sounding ZEN. These changes can not be done in already build Zen amps. Also (i believe) that these changes can be made With the newish mono-Blocks. I think i read somewhere that the chassis is to small/different in the standard Zen for upgrading. I Guess most of you know that the New mono, like the ones i have, can not be bridged, its only one output tube per side, while the standard Zen har two, and With an extra zen you have two output tubes per side, and because of that bridging is possible.
Im not 100% sure i have understood these Things all the way, but it seems that the mono amps will stay 2,7w/c, but takes a step or two in terms of Fidelity. and also that the Upgrade is like a 25 ann ZEN but in two chassis instead of one, so like an  Upgrade that covers all the New topology discoveries, and not a Close enough option. Not sure about any of this though.
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Re: Decware SE84UFO MONO Bridge Setup
Reply #45 - 01/23/18 at 03:18:04
 
jorgen wrote on 01/22/18 at 13:23:28:
As most of us I dont really know what comes out of this periode With trial and error. What i understand is that Decware have found a New topology that contains a few changes from the standard Zen, and this discovery makes a finer sounding ZEN. These changes can not be done in already build Zen amps. Also (i believe) that these changes can be made With the newish mono-Blocks. I think i read somewhere that the chassis is to small/different in the standard Zen for upgrading. I Guess most of you know that the New mono, like the ones i have, can not be bridged, its only one output tube per side, while the standard Zen har two, and With an extra zen you have two output tubes per side, and because of that bridging is possible.
Im not 100% sure i have understood these Things all the way, but it seems that the mono amps will stay 2,7w/c, but takes a step or two in terms of Fidelity. and also that the Upgrade is like a 25 ann ZEN but in two chassis instead of one, so like an  Upgrade that covers all the New topology discoveries, and not a Close enough option. Not sure about any of this though.


I think our speculations are very close in line.  I'm not sure if there will be a real pair of 25th Anniversary mono's or just a 25th Ann upgrade to the current mono's in his lineup and not sure about any chassis changes.  

I'm also not sure if there will be a step up in fidelity from a single 25th Annivesary Zen amp vs mono blocks ~ just more power and headroom @ 2.7 watts.  That said the mono's "may" have an edge with it's own dedicated circuit, power supply and chassis over a bridged pair, but with the UFO transformers I may be splitting hairs.

If there's no difference in sound between a bridged pair of 25th Ann amps over a dedicated pair of mono's then there would be no real reason I could see to offer mono blocks at all other than being dedicated mono's which a person would probably use with a preamp and costs could be reduced by not having line level inputs?  However if there are going to be dedicated 25th Anniversary Mono Blocks this would be my choice over a bridged pair.

We'll have to wait until the Zen Master clarifies things a little more, but I'm with Lon and Jeff ~ it's been fun to speculate.
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Re: Decware SE84UFO MONO Bridge Setup
Reply #46 - 01/23/18 at 03:21:35
 
Quote:
However if there are going to be dedicated 25th Anniversary Mono Blocks this would be my choice over a bridged pair.


Mine too!
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Re: Decware SE84UFO MONO Bridge Setup
Reply #47 - 01/23/18 at 11:05:46
 
OK, my guess is that Steve will have the 25th Anniversary Zen and a option for the monos to get the 25th Anniversary treatment...either special order or maybe even an option on the order page.  I know when I ordered my ZP3 the beeswax caps weren't on the option page but I had been corresponding with someone who had had them put in his ZP3 and said it was worthwhile.

I think the Monos with the UFOs are already not a big seller and to make them all with the 25th Anniversary update would price them out as a choice for most buyers...so I think the monos will not come standard with the Anniversary treatment. Mark
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Re: Decware SE84UFO MONO Bridge Setup
Reply #48 - 02/01/18 at 12:54:39
 
I recently sold my SE84UFO because I'm looking for more head room.  Also, my speaker cables do accommodate the span to bridge the speaker outputs.  So perhaps it is illogical for me to continue to think about the SE84 but a thought occurred to me. Since many SE84 enthusiasts run a preamp in front of the amp, why not have an option to change the two input selector switch to a stereo/mono switch?  Then bridging the outputs is the only accommodation needed to run a bridged setup.  Wouldn't that be possible?

Chris
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