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Standard Beeswax Caps -vs -Copper Beeswax Caps (Read 1359 times)
ginny
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Standard Beeswax Caps -vs -Copper Beeswax Caps
12/19/17 at 20:48:46
 
Has anyone heard the difference between the Standard Beeswax Caps -vs -Copper Beeswax Caps in the SE84UFO and could you please elaborate?

I put in an order a couple weeks ago with the standard caps, but would upgrade to the copper caps for the right reasons.
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Oppo UDP-203 transport / Oppo Sonica / Neotech (AC) / Torii MKlV with type ll beeswax caps and Tungsol 6L6 / Brickwall power isolation / Analysis Plus black oval 9, solo crystal oval, digital crystal / Tekton Pendragon
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Lon
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Re: Standard Beeswax Caps -vs -Copper Beeswax Caps
Reply #1 - 12/19/17 at 21:24:31
 
I don't have the SE84UFO and I haven't heard the two types of Jupiter caps in the same amp but I do have both types of Jupiter caps in components that I have and I think that what Steve says in this post on the ZROCK2 forum differentiates what I hear between the two types. Steve wrote:

You start with the Film and Foil from G.E. which is already reference grade by any engineer's standard. We like this cap because it sounds good on digital.  

Normally as you go up in resolution there is a price to pay.. however in this case it is different.  The next step up is the Cryo Beeswax caps, which are aluminum foil, and with those you get a noticeable increase in resolution without any additional edge.  It's a win win. Normally the increase in resolution would come with some edge that would ruin less than great recordings.

If you increase the resolution further with the type II beeswax, which are copper foil, the only thing that happens is the liquidity goes up as well, there is no trade off.  Again a win win.

I find the sonics of the Jupiter cryo treated beeswax caps reminiscent of what a tube rectifier brings to the table when employed in a good tube amplifier. Midrange liquidity and naturalness in the bass with surprising control... for some reason we tend to think you can't have tight bass without dry bass... a misnomer that came from mid fi retail.

The VCAPS are going to be the king of resolution and HIT but with a less organic feel and several weeks of break-in where you will question your choice at least three times. Once dialed in and properly seasoned, the VCAPS are quite good and do achieve the liquidity that you have on day one with the Beeswax caps.
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HR-1,ZP3,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SE84UFO3-25th, CSP3-25th;PS Audio: Soloist SE, DMP+DSD, P10, PowerBases, XStream Statemt spk cb, AC-12 power cds; Mapleshade:SamsonV2+V3; Oppo UDP-205;VooDoo Cremona +Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner; headphones: Oppo PM-1,Audeze LCD-2
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ginny
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Re: Standard Beeswax Caps -vs -Copper Beeswax Caps
Reply #2 - 12/20/17 at 22:48:20
 
Lon,
Thanks for the input...

Please critique this logic:
I will (at least for the short term) be listening to 100% digital since my entire lifetime Album collection was ruined in a flood about 10 yrs ago.

With that being said, Steve's comment in his quote you posted - "You start with the Film and Foil from G.E. which is already reference grade by any engineer's standard. We like this cap because it sounds good on digital."

Reading this makes me believe that since i will be 100% digital, standing pat with the standard caps could/would make sense???
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Oppo UDP-203 transport / Oppo Sonica / Neotech (AC) / Torii MKlV with type ll beeswax caps and Tungsol 6L6 / Brickwall power isolation / Analysis Plus black oval 9, solo crystal oval, digital crystal / Tekton Pendragon
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Lon
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Re: Standard Beeswax Caps -vs -Copper Beeswax Caps
Reply #3 - 12/20/17 at 23:31:37
 
Well, that's one way to look at what he said. From my experience though he could have added after each of the Jupiter cap descriptions: "And we like this beeswax cap because it makes digital sound even better than the stock caps we use." Because that is at least my experience. . . .

They all sound great! There IS a progression of more resolution (that can mean more detail and dynamics, and with both Jupiter caps doesn't mean edginess or harshness added) as you move into the optional caps. They cost more. . . for a reason.
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HR-1,ZP3,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SE84UFO3-25th, CSP3-25th;PS Audio: Soloist SE, DMP+DSD, P10, PowerBases, XStream Statemt spk cb, AC-12 power cds; Mapleshade:SamsonV2+V3; Oppo UDP-205;VooDoo Cremona +Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner; headphones: Oppo PM-1,Audeze LCD-2
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alper_yilmaz
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Re: Standard Beeswax Caps -vs -Copper Beeswax Caps
Reply #4 - 12/22/17 at 15:14:10
 
Ginny,

Mine is the Type II Beeswax (copper?) which I am very happy with.  Unfortunately, I do not have experience with the other caps.  I must admit I picked the Type II not knowingly, but just with the belief that an upgrade would bring only positive sonic aspects to the table.

My previous experience with SE84 is with the CS and/or + models from way back.  Since then the amp has had significant changes including but not limited to the Hazen Grid Mod, UFO transformers, etc.  So, I am not sure about how much of the sonic improvement is due to different caps over the previously mentioned mods/upgrades, but my SE84UFO sounds extremely detailed, quite even in representing different frequencies (does that mean "colorless?"), and very pleasant to ear with no fatigue of any sort.  

So, highly recommended...  I know this does not provide a respond to your question, but just wanted to chime in still...  :)

Happy holidays...

Alper
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ginny
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Re: Standard Beeswax Caps -vs -Copper Beeswax Caps
Reply #5 - 12/23/17 at 15:05:43
 
Thx for chiming in Alper.

Well thx to Lon and a conversation with Steve Iíve recently upgraded the SE with copper beeswax caps.
Also talked to Steve about upgrading the CSP3 to cryo beeswax caps. He told me that if Iím one of those guys who will always wonder ďwhat ifĒ, then you should upgrade.
So, cryo beeswax caps for the CSP3 it is. 👍

I canít remember who it was on this forum that talked about a conversation he had with Steve where Steve used the beer reference as it pertains to volume, but he used the same beer(s) reference in our conversation and it made me chuckle.

Also decided on the Decware silver reference DSR ICís and ZSTYX silver reference speaker cables.

Got the second Oppo Sonica this past Thursday after the first one was inoperable. Setup to home wireless WiFi, installed Sonica app and Tidal subscription and all in less than 5 min music was streaming.

Merry Christmas guys!!!
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Oppo UDP-203 transport / Oppo Sonica / Neotech (AC) / Torii MKlV with type ll beeswax caps and Tungsol 6L6 / Brickwall power isolation / Analysis Plus black oval 9, solo crystal oval, digital crystal / Tekton Pendragon
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SonicSeeker
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Re: Standard Beeswax Caps -vs -Copper Beeswax Caps
Reply #6 - 12/23/17 at 16:39:03
 
You made the right choice or should I say maybe the better choice.
I am the type to say that sounds really good but I wonder what it would've sounded like if I had done X, so better to start there if you can.
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Lon
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Re: Standard Beeswax Caps -vs -Copper Beeswax Caps
Reply #7 - 12/23/17 at 16:48:16
 
ginny wrote on 12/23/17 at 15:05:43:
Thx for chiming in Alper.

Well thx to Lon and a conversation with Steve Iíve recently upgraded the SE with copper beeswax caps.
Also talked to Steve about upgrading the CSP3 to cryo beeswax caps. He told me that if Iím one of those guys who will always wonder ďwhat ifĒ, then you should upgrade.
So, cryo beeswax caps for the CSP3 it is. 👍

I canít remember who it was on this forum that talked about a conversation he had with Steve where Steve used the beer reference as it pertains to volume, but he used the same beer(s) reference in our conversation and it made me chuckle.

Also decided on the Decware silver reference DSR ICís and ZSTYX silver reference speaker cables.

Got the second Oppo Sonica this past Thursday after the first one was inoperable. Setup to home wireless WiFi, installed Sonica app and Tidal subscription and all in less than 5 min music was streaming.

Merry Christmas guys!!!


That's great news Ginny! Merry Christmas to you!
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HR-1,ZP3,ZTPRE,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SE84UFO3-25th, CSP3-25th;PS Audio: Soloist SE, DMP+DSD, P10, PowerBases, XStream Statemt spk cb, AC-12 power cds; Mapleshade:SamsonV2+V3; Oppo UDP-205;VooDoo Cremona +Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner; headphones: Oppo PM-1,Audeze LCD-2
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