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CDApS Micro-Brew Tour 2017 (Read 10184 times)
Palomino
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CDApS Micro-Brew Tour 2017
12/11/17 at 17:00:46
 
Raven and I decided to attend a Chicago Audiophile Society meeting this past Sunday.  It was in our backyard and I was curious to attend a meeting.  They have one just about every month.

Raven stopped over early to show me his new truck and give my system a listen.  I have made a number of changes since the last time he was over:  New TEAC DAC, new denser “wall” that seals off the listening area from the stairs coming down the basement, removed the desk to make it a true listening room and added the AMTs to my OBs.  Oh, and I just put together my new subwoofer and was playing that.

Raven was most complimentary of the main goal of the system which was air, ambient sound and sense of hall/room.  That is really what I was after and the AMTs really made that happen.  He also felt that the sub was pretty well integrated despite my just sticking behind one of the OBs.  The thing weighs a ton and I pretty much had trouble moving it so it went where I had room.

But he was also quick to point out the deficiencies in a round of what I call audio Touretts.  You say the first thing that comes into your head.  Usually you are right.

Anyway, he pointed out highs were a bit rolled off and vocals can still be edgy on some songs.  In response I backed off a little EQ I was doing above 12K.  Didn’t help with the rolled off highs, but did help a little with the edginess.  Don’t get me wrong.  I love the way my room/system sound right now.  But there is compromise in any speaker system and that is the compromise.  Later we agreed that it might be time to look for a different mid-range speaker to help with the edginess.  I think I am willing to live with the rolled off highs for the ambient room sound of the AMTs (I will be interested in Maddog’s impressions of these drivers).

After that, we hopped into the car and went to the meeting. It was held at a place that appears to mostly sell home theater stuff, but they are a dealer for the featured speaker – the Triton Golden Ear Reference.  I don’t think there was a tube in the store.  I can appreciate the business model though.  The guy has been around for over 20 years.

In general, the experience wasn’t too rewarding.  We first heard the Triton 1 in a fairly well treated room (absorbers).  Mids and highs were fine, but I am easily turned off by muddy bass.  My OB bass is great and even with the sub now my bass is 5X more crisp.  Soundstaging was OK.  I wanted to pull the speakers out into the room.

Then we moved to the larger, untreated room where they had the Reference speakers.  The room was a little crowded and you couldn’t get near the sweet spot so I couldn’t gauge the soundstage.  Nice highs and mids.  Bass seemed better.  They mostly played classical.  There wasn’t much conversation.  Maybe that comes later in the meeting after everyone gets a chance to hear the featured equipment.  Anyway, we decided to leave after only being there around 30 minutes or so.

So, my hall pass did not expire until around 4:15 and here is was only 1:30 or so.  What to do, what to do…

I suggested getting a beer and Raven countered with micro brew.  We started at one close to where he lives and then worked our way back to one that just a stone’s throw from my house.  Good beer and conversation plus some very attractive young people attending to our drinking needs.

I love these places even though I am not a big beer drinker.  They are all in industrial parks because they qualify as “light industry.”  The first co-owner admitted that they do distribute their beer but most of their margins come from the tap room.  I also love the dress of these young entrepreneurs.  They have the stocking cap/tattoo/Urban hip look thing going.

So, despite the audio society meeting being a disappointment, it was overall a good afternoon of feedback on my system and a few beers with El Presidente.

P.S. over the holiday break, I am going to host a CDApS meeting and I am hoping more Chicago area people can attend.  Maybe I can get Raven to bring his Direct Stream to hear the latest firmware update and his hopped up Zen amp.
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stone_of_tone
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Re: CDApS Micro-Brew Tour 2017
Reply #1 - 12/11/17 at 17:52:41
 
Hi Pal, yeah, I stopped going to my local Audio Society meetings. I can't do Speaker's with x-over's anymore! It would be interesting to hear what the Triton 1's and the new Flagship of Sandy Gross's could do after I had my guy at Midwest modify them appropriately with Mundorf MCap Supremes or Silver Oils.

Funny, no tube amps....definitely Sandy Gross's preference amplification of choice the....OTL Futterman's........ .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF3kbhvgshU

PS-Craft micro gets my vote. I'm blessed to have some of the best Craft beer brewer's in the country.....here in the Twin Cities.
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stone_of_tone
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Re: CDApS Micro-Brew Tour 2017
Reply #2 - 12/11/17 at 23:44:54
 
Clearly interesting, is the last 10 minutes of this interview..... Body language and spoken .... Sandy does not listen to solid state or stock Triton 1's or the Reference.... .

As, we do not either.
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Palomino
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Re: CDApS Micro-Brew Tour 2017
Reply #3 - 12/12/17 at 14:22:46
 
I checked out some of the interview.  Always interesting to hear from the creator.  I use SS in various applications but my main amp will always be tubey delicious.

In general, I can't see well intentioned, well funded, experienced and intelligent people saying, "let's build an elegant floorstander and give it muddy bass."

I feel solid state can help bass a lot. Those Golden Ears have a bazillion watt integrated SS amp for the subs.

So perhaps it was the environment, perhaps it was the crossover point.  Maybe the home theater guy had them too close to the corners to keep them out of the way of the screen (and they fire sideways).  I don't know what it was, but they didn't sound that great in the lower frequencies.  

I did come home wanting to compare my audio memory of the mids and highs to my rig.
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Lonely Raven
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Re: CDApS Micro-Brew Tour 2017
Reply #4 - 12/12/17 at 20:39:18
 

So this Sandy guy just napkin draws the design and sends it out to Engineers to make it happen...sounds like a quality design (sigh).

Tom made me promise not to start any fights at the audio event, so I kept myself busy and mostly out of trouble by petting the shop dog, and not saying a damn thing.



I will say, the shops interior decorator had very good taste, and the flagship Martin Logan speakers sounded great.  I'm also pretty sure I was the youngest guy there (big surprise).

I had more fun with Tom enjoying micro-brews.  Maybe he'll believe the rumor about how this Raven/Viking can quickly metabolize alcohol after I quickly enjoyed three 10%+ ABV beers and shrugged it off. Meanwhile, i drop his tipsy, lightweight ass off at his house so he can grill for the family.

Audio wise the day was Meh - but it was a great day to hang out with a majority of the CDApS members.   Grin



 



I hereby proclaim that we need to include more liquid libations in future CDApS events!  Do I have a second?
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Lonely Raven
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Re: CDApS Micro-Brew Tour 2017
Reply #5 - 12/12/17 at 20:41:17
 

Damn FB pics are ubersized.

P.S. Tom, don't forget to invite BadWolf (Aaron) to our year end meet!
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Palomino
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Re: CDApS Micro-Brew Tour 2017
Reply #6 - 12/12/17 at 22:00:48
 
Will do.

Love the ubersized bad photo of me.  Thanks for that.
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Jeff of Arabica
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Re: CDApS Micro-Brew Tour 2017
Reply #7 - 12/13/17 at 01:50:50
 
Ill second that!  Do non-members on the West Coast have voting rights?
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Lonely Raven
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Re: CDApS Micro-Brew Tour 2017
Reply #8 - 12/13/17 at 17:19:50
 
Quote:
Ill second that!  Do non-members on the West Coast have voting rights?


Well, I got voted as president before I even knew I was part of CDApS - so yeah, anything can happen!

Oh hey, I had my first cuppa today. **cheers**



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stone_of_tone
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Re: CDApS Micro-Brew Tour 2017
Reply #9 - 12/13/17 at 18:08:25
 
Yeah, definite sigh....from napkin draw to design.

Now, Sandy uses OTL Futterman's  & Line Magnetic for Amps at home and the built in plate amps for those built in Subs. Quite frankly, as I mentioned....I don't think he listens to the Triton 1 or that Flagship in that video with his Amps. Anyway, enough on that subject....I don't go to the Pavek Museum anymore for Audio Society meetings (my System wins at home). However, I do need to return and hear the big Western Electric hung Theatre Speakers again with Bing Crosby's Studio Reel to Reel!      

Guys? Anyone try a quad of 6PS3-E's in their ZMA, Rachel or Torii? Archie totally digs them. I was going to order a quad today to arrive Monday. But, will wait until after the holidays....so my box is not drop kicked into a wall 10 times (only happens 3 times the rest of the year/shipping) Grin.
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Archie
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Re: CDApS Micro-Brew Tour 2017
Reply #10 - 12/13/17 at 18:24:40
 
Stone -- you're going to be my reality check!   Smiley
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stone_of_tone
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Re: CDApS Micro-Brew Tour 2017
Reply #11 - 12/13/17 at 18:30:46
 
Oh no Archie, I bet they are quite good. I would expect them to be a little less in the headroom department (from KT66's)....but that is just fine. I look forward to putting some hours on them (once I actually get them) and tube roll, Mulls, Edi's & my 6n23n-EB's for inputs and my Tele's are my constant inverter's. RCA NOS 0A3's.
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Archie
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Re: CDApS Micro-Brew Tour 2017
Reply #12 - 12/13/17 at 18:44:05
 
My initial impression was that they had more headroom than my KT66s.  They bias differently.  I bias about 50mA which is near their top.  I think my Gold Lion KT66s biased around 52 to 56mA at a minimum.  I don't know what difference this makes for the amp or tube.  My trannies run at a reasonable temp either way.
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stone_of_tone
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Re: CDApS Micro-Brew Tour 2017
Reply #13 - 12/13/17 at 18:53:56
 
Wow, great to read. I should not assume about them.....till I bias and balance them/give them a listen (especially get them past 50 hours).
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Lon
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Re: CDApS Micro-Brew Tour 2017
Reply #14 - 12/13/17 at 19:24:08
 
Larry, I've mentioned several times that I use these tubes (in rotation with TAD KT66 and JJ 6CA7, gave up on the Tung-Sol KT66, too edgy for me) in my Torii Mk III.

I like them a lot. I found them a bit bass shy in my Torii Mk III but not too bad. With the ZROCK2 in the system that's a total non-issue.
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stone_of_tone
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Re: CDApS Micro-Brew Tour 2017
Reply #15 - 12/13/17 at 19:32:49
 
True Lon, it's been awhile since we talked about these. Good to read if I find them bass shy.....I have a ZROCK2 coming down the road.
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Archie
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Re: CDApS Micro-Brew Tour 2017
Reply #16 - 12/13/17 at 20:23:43
 
I like their bass but I'm looking forward to another ZMA user to try them.
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Lon
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Re: CDApS Micro-Brew Tour 2017
Reply #17 - 12/13/17 at 20:35:05
 
stone_of_tone wrote on 12/13/17 at 19:32:49:
True Lon, it's been awhile since we talked about these. Good to read if I find them bass shy.....I have a ZROCK2 coming down the road.

My guess is that even pre-ZROCK2 the bass will be fine in the ZMA, those extra watts and the ability to adjust bias should provide PLENTY.

The real strength of these tubes in my system is the open midrange and sweet treble.

I leant a quad of cryo'd to Eric (Lonely Raven) and he didn't like them much. . . wanted more power and more treble. But then he hasn't returned them either so maybe he's just shucking and jiving me. . . .;)
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stone_of_tone
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Re: CDApS Micro-Brew Tour 2017
Reply #18 - 12/13/17 at 22:17:58
 
Lon, Ah yes, I do remember this now....you loaned to Eric and he has not returned....hmmm?

Archie, glad they do have bass with our ZMA's....hoping you were going to say that. Look forward to ZROCK2 for recordings that need it.

I'm looking forward to their sweetness. I should have something to say come mid January.
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Archie
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Re: CDApS Micro-Brew Tour 2017
Reply #19 - 12/14/17 at 00:23:14
 
Feel free to contradict me once you've heard them.  And if they end up not working out for you, I'm always looking for a deal.   Roll Eyes
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Jeff of Arabica
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Re: CDApS Micro-Brew Tour 2017
Reply #20 - 12/14/17 at 05:44:51
 
Ive got a matched quad set that I just received from Cryoset burning-in in my ZMA right now.
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Jeff of Arabica
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Re: CDApS Micro-Brew Tour 2017
Reply #21 - 12/14/17 at 05:48:33
 
Quote:
Well, I got voted as president before I even knew I was part of CDApS - so yeah, anything can happen!

Oh hey, I had my first cuppa today. **cheers**


Haha!  Nice Eric!  Your patronage is much appreciated  :)  And most importantly, I hope you enjoy them.  Let me know if you need any brewing suggestions.  I know we talked espresso, but brewed coffee is a little different animal.  Like the espresso, make sure you have a nice fine grind.  
Cheers!
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stone_of_tone
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Re: CDApS Micro-Brew Tour 2017
Reply #22 - 12/14/17 at 15:19:23
 
Yes, the coffee looks very good. I will PM you after the New Year/site to order.

Archie, Jeff is burning in a quad!  I will get mine soon too. I will be able to put some time on them well before my ZROCK2 arrives in the mix.

I'm going to start with my 6n23n-EB's...for the first 50 hours, then on to my Cryo Plat Mullard's and Cryo Plat Edi's.
(Mulls, Edi's & my 6n23n-EB's for inputs and my Platinum Tele's are my constant inverter's. RCA NOS 0A3's).








.......here is my order of Listening (keeping each scenario in one to two weeks at a time):


ZMA direct from ZDSD with Platinum Mullard pair (Cryo'd) 7308/E188CC ....as inputs/ZMA


ZMA direct from ZDSD with Platinum Ediswan pair (Cryo'd) CV2492/6922 ....as inputs/ZMA


ARC LS-2B/single Plat' Mullard 7308/E188CC (Cryo'd) to Plat' Tungsram pair PCC88/7DJ8 ...inputs/ZMA.


.....currently running with ZDSD direct to ZMA (no Line Stage)....with 6n23n-EB pair for inputs in my ZMA. All else (below) equal/in System.



Previous Decware Amplifier's/I have owned/Purchased new: SE84CS (#76 Zen Select/you see in my original Signature below/I used for 13 years/2001 till 2014), Torii MkIII & SuperZen CKC.

Using impressive Decware PAC-S(ilver), for DishNetwork HD/DVR RCA output for SeriusXM Sat Radio & TV.



***ZMA, updated with robust Western Electric Bias/Balance Meter's and new Resistor's ~ Feb/17

***Pending Purchase: Decware Zen 25th Anniversary Amplifier




Listening Room:



Room Treatments from Michael Green & my Home Brew


Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)
Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC ~.5 meter


Shunyata Research Zitron Alpha Digital Power Cord to ZDSD {Significant}


Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder
***************************************************************
W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the Curb quite a few superb DAC'S
***************************************************************
(@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192)


WBT RCA Kimber Select KS1030 ~.5 meter


Audio Research Stereo Line Stage Amplifier w/remote volume & mute LS-2B MkII
NOS Platinum/Mullard 7308/E188CC / Cryogenic


WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030 ~.75 meter


Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
~BIASED at *56* mA~
NOS/Platinum/Mullard E188CC/7308's in my A12 an B12 Input positions Cryogenic~NOS/Platinum/Telefunken E88CC for Inverter Tubes~NOS RCA 0A3's & matched Quad/Tung-Sol KT66's

ZMA adjusted at  60-90% Gain ~ w/ARC Line Stage, running via Remote Control



***************************************************
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades
***************************************************
Kimber 8TC new/white & clear jacket/to remind me of how fluid/timbre correct and good the KS6063 are
Also Read.....the lowest noise floor you will ever witness....that a $5180 pair of speaker cables should have....and they do.....(I was fortunate to get them for $2680/Demo pair/mint, from the CableCo....worth every penny/extraordinary realism.....)



Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)
.....enjoying from 8 ohm ZMA Taps


Caintuck Audio Eminence Alpha 15" OB BASS Unit
at 53Hz, with my Velodyne CHT 130 watt plate amp and 0 degree phase.....at 1/6 volume on plate
Plate Amp....regen'd clean ~ plugged into P3
Auralex Subdude (a must)
(NOTE: Only needed when the recording calls for...Open Baffle Bass has been the best integration I have witnessed when needed and called on)







Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)


XLO Pro Power Cord to ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport, ARC Pre, and ZDSD, Regenerated/*120*~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output).


~NOS Platinum Tubes from Upscale Audio/Kevin:

(Great Britain) Mullard 7308/E188CC ~  2 pair (both pair Cryogenic)
(Germany) Telefunken 6922/E88CC ~ 1 pair (painfully expensive/worth it)
(US/Great Britain) Ediswan CV2492/6922 ~ 2 pair (one pair Cryogenic)
(Hungary) Tungsram 6922/E88CC ~ 1 pair
(Hungary) Tungsram PCC88/7DJ8 ~ 1 pair.

From Cryoset:
(Russia) 6N23N/P-EB ~ 2 pair

(Russia) 6N23P's ~ 2 pair/came with ZMA.    
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Room Treats-M.Green & mine
Sony T-Port
Illuminati D-60
Shunyata Zitron Alpha DigPcord/ZDSD
Decware ZDSD DAC/Recorder
Kimber Select KS1030
Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier/25th Mods
Kimber Select KS6063
Acoustic Zen Adagio/Modified
PS Audio P3
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Palomino
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Re: CDApS Micro-Brew Tour 2017
Reply #23 - 12/14/17 at 18:10:26
 
Targeting the 30th for the CDApS year end blowout.  Stay tuned though.  That date is subject to change.

Raven has made available his mega Zen amp and the tape machine for my use while he is out of town.  I think we will have both at the next meeting.

Aaron, you are certainly invited.  Other Chicago area (and downstate) folks are invited as well.  My room and system have never sounded better (pay no attention to el presidente's nits).

P.S. last time I was at Raven's house, his room looked like a used tube bazzar.  A lot of tubes of all shapes and sizes strewn about.  I am sure Lon's tubes are in there somewhere.

P.S.S.  I have been very happy with the 807s from Raven's tube bazzar in Rachael/Torii III but may need to branch out.
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Re: CDApS Micro-Brew Tour 2017
Reply #24 - 12/14/17 at 18:25:46
 
Wish I was a tad closer to be there Palomino.

Yes.....LR's Zen and the tape gig....will be cool to read about... .

Get those 6PS3-E's too ~ in your Rach'! Then, Eric needs to buy them or return them? ;D
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Re: CDApS Micro-Brew Tour 2017
Reply #25 - 12/15/17 at 16:41:07
 
Crap, I thought I shipped Lon's tubes back to him. They are probably still in the box with the label on them sitting in the tube stash. Sorry Lon, I'll get those back to you when I return from visiting my parents.

As for how they sounded in the ZMA - they weren't as sweet as the 807, and not as strong nor as tight of bass as the KT66. They were good for budget tubes, but I'm still on a quest for some KT66 (or I think Steve likes KT88) that are wide bandwidth, punchy tight bass, and not harsh.
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Re: CDApS Micro-Brew Tour 2017
Reply #26 - 12/15/17 at 16:59:41
 
No harm done Eric, I knew you had just forgotten those tubes.

I'm really enjoying them. The Torii isn't the ZMA I know. I enjoy them a lot more with Huron and now RedCloud than I did with Torreys so I'm glad I have two other quads as well as the ones I'm now using and those you have. A good supply, especially as I rotate output tubes often.

With the ZTPRE, ZBIT and ZROCK2, and the different "modes" on my P10, the bass and tone controls on my Mk III,and different input tubes I can make all three of the tube types I'm using work with the system and have different flavors. I'm a monogamous human but I'm promiscuous with tubes. . . .
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Re: CDApS Micro-Brew Tour 2017
Reply #27 - 12/16/17 at 01:11:10
 
Just figured I would give you hard time LR!
Eric, Steve is running KT88's in his ZMA?

Lon, I am excited for my ZROCK2. She is on the Bench! ....still awhile till I get it. Riding my gains to tame some brightness is more of the need for me than thin bass recordings. Though, I have those too.
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Re: CDApS Micro-Brew Tour 2017
Reply #28 - 12/16/17 at 01:49:59
 
I think the ZROCK2 will surprise you with the scope of what it will do. . . .
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Re: CDApS Micro-Brew Tour 2017
Reply #29 - 12/16/17 at 03:06:36
 
Quote:
Just figured I would give you hard time LR!
Eric, Steve is running KT88's in his ZMA?


Yeah, I thought Steve posted about it somewhere. He modified the bias on the shop ZMA and is running KT88. I'm pretty sure that's what he said. I'm pretty sure he was running some expensive KT88 though, like PSVane.

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Re: CDApS Micro-Brew Tour 2017
Reply #30 - 12/16/17 at 05:02:35
 
Cool Lon, I'm going to read your impressions again.

Great Eric, now I'm obsessed with Psvane Treasure KT88 Cobalt Blue Bottle Super Tube (GF-Select, Quad)......yikes $495.

......now, to send my ZMA to Steve for the Bias adjustment .....thanks a lot!!  :) Wink Grin

.....but seriously, that cobalt blue and the claimed sound....Stone want.

Now I'm eyeing the Psvane Philips Holland Metal Base Replica EL34PH quad.
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Re: CDApS Micro-Brew Tour 2017
Reply #31 - 12/16/17 at 05:44:29
 
Hi is running TJ Full Music KT88's.  At least that's what was in at Decfest.  He may have some PSVane's also.  After learning of the Full Music tubes from Steve I decided to pick up a matched quad.  They are pricey.  I Paid $550 for the set.  They bias high at 60+ ma but I checked with Steve before purchasing them, and he said it's not a problem.  They sound amazing!! But I had one tube fail after 30 days.  They have a full 1 year factory warranty, but now I have to send the matched quad back to China in order to get a replacement quad set shipped back.  Beautiful aesthetics.  They are the most solid, heavy and pretty (brass bases; gold pins) sets in my collection.  I just hope this next set lasts awhile.
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Re: CDApS Micro-Brew Tour 2017
Reply #32 - 12/16/17 at 16:10:02
 
So no in-house under the hood needed/bias hardware tweak (for KT88) from Steve and bias a little over 60 mA?   Very nice!
Expensive and sad to hear about your one tube...but nice warranty.

http://psvanetube.com/wordpress/store/products/psvane-philips-holland-metal-base...
Salivating, to maybe get these.  Been Jonesin' to try EL34 greatness in my ZMA.   .....warranty on these.....let me check...... .


Speaking of one tube? I had one tube not fail but get out of bias. My recent quad of KT66's are only 10 months old. With our bias meters I knew the culprit. I was able to replace it with one from the other channel to confirm no meter bias balance error/problem. I purposely pulled my first quad from Steve early to address such a problem if it arose. Now, the missing tube for the other channel was replaced with one from my original quad and biased and balanced perfectly with the other tube from the current quad. Now, I'm good out to 22 months or 28. I knew one of the four saved original quad/full of life yet...would match in...bias balance perfectly! ....the first one I tried, did indeed.

Now, I realize that was something you would not have on hand or would have done with your KT88 quad/expense. Once again, glad they have the 1 year warranty.
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Re: CDApS Micro-Brew Tour 2017
Reply #33 - 12/16/17 at 16:26:21
 
Stone, except for a very brief trial of the Tung Sol KT-66s that came with my Torii MK IV, I've been using these EL 34s made by RFT...they are sold under different brand names or no brand at all.  I recommend these very reliable tubes...I haven't had any go bad.  Mark.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Matched-Quad-4-NOS-NIB-RFT-Siemens-EL34-6CA7-Vacuum-Tub...
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Re: CDApS Micro-Brew Tour 2017
Reply #34 - 12/16/17 at 16:40:02
 
Thanks Mark, very nice!

I wonder, what that bid will run up to (last hour) vs. TU.
http://www.nosvacuumtubes.net/product/rft-el34/

.....and a 30 day TU warranty vs. no warranty.
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Re: CDApS Micro-Brew Tour 2017
Reply #35 - 12/16/17 at 16:44:23
 
Stone,
That's correct.  No modification necessary to the ZMA.  My KT88's bias at 64ma to be precise.  

And the warranty is pretty great.  I did not bother to research the warranty before I purchased them, so you can imagine I was a bit freaked with the tube blew in one month and they company is in China.  I was pretty sure I was hosed.  But after contacting them and being advised of the 1 year warranty, all good.  Except for some shipping cost back and the wait time of course.

Funny you mention those PSvane EL34PH's.  I have a quad set of those that I listened to in my ZMA after the KT88 blew, and before I got the Cryoset 6P3S-E's.  I originally bought the EL34PH's for my Torii MKIV, but called them to duty last week.   That is why I posted last week about using EL34's in the ZMA.  EL34's bias low in the ZMA.  Ive put two sets in and they sit at about 42-44ma on both sets.  I didn't spend a lot of time analyzing them, but those PSvane tubes sounded pretty awesome while they were in.  I plan to put them back in and do a proper evaluation at some point soon.
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Re: CDApS Micro-Brew Tour 2017
Reply #36 - 12/16/17 at 16:58:52
 
Wow, great to know and bias at 64 with KT88's!

Now, I have KT88, 6P3S-E, Psvane EL34PH's and RFT EL34's to decide on........ . Or, two out of four/I can swing.

I can wait...Jeff, do let us know more of your impressions on the Psvane EL34PH's.....meant to be/you got um......for ZMA.

Any impressions yet of the 6P's?

Jeff, I queried your last posts and did not see mention of EL34PH's. I could have missed it? ....I did see mention #198 reply in tube rolling ZMA Forum.

Acetone and I, are looking good with our ZROCKS! ....I know you have one on order too Jeff....from your experience at Decfest.
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Re: CDApS Micro-Brew Tour 2017
Reply #37 - 12/16/17 at 18:27:19
 
Stone, there are lots of those to choose from, the one I gave was just an example.  Here is a search using RFT Siemens EL 34 Quad...

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=RFT+%28Siemens%29+EL34&_osacat=0&_from=R40...
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Re: CDApS Micro-Brew Tour 2017
Reply #38 - 12/16/17 at 18:31:09
 
Thanks Mark! Pardon my ignorance not to query the whole. I scare myself some times.  ;D
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Re: CDApS Micro-Brew Tour 2017
Reply #39 - 12/29/17 at 22:42:14
 
Mark:

Can you comment on the sound of the RFT Siemens EL 34's vs. the GL KT88's, 6P3S-E's.'s or others in the ZMA?

Norm
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Re: CDApS Micro-Brew Tour 2017
Reply #40 - 12/29/17 at 22:58:09
 
Norm, I own a Torii MK IV and HR-1 speakers....not a ZMA.  I have used those Russian Tubes but an older 1960's version from the Futon Factory, not the ones everyone is commenting on.  I also own them but haven't used them.  I went with the Russian tubes when I was trying to tame my Treble...once I got new speaker cables that helped tone down the treble, I went back to the RFTs...they really are my favorite Output tubes. But I have no idea how they would sound in the ZMA but suspect they would be wonderful.  Mark.
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Re: CDApS Micro-Brew Tour 2017
Reply #41 - 12/29/17 at 23:01:05
 
Yes, well aware you don't have a ZMA...but might hear what RFT variants sound like if JD digs up a quad of what he has.
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Re: CDApS Micro-Brew Tour 2017
Reply #42 - 12/30/17 at 02:34:16
 
CDApS tomorrow.  Hopefully there will be enough parking for all
attendees.  We will have svhs tapes and the prototype 25th zen. Maybe the latest Direct Stream update.

I have been listening for a week to the 25AZPT.  Digging it.  Musical?  Yes.  PRaT?  You betcha.  Hearing things I have not heard in the ZMA or Zens I
have heard before?  Well yes, yes I am.  

More later on why I think this amp is special but the tease is it
gets notes right.
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Re: CDApS Micro-Brew Tour 2017
Reply #43 - 12/30/17 at 06:59:44
 
A quad of the RFT EL34's are scheduled to land on Tuesday.  When I get a moment to pull the 6P3S-E's and rotate in the RFT's into my ZMA, I will.  But for now, the 6P's are holding their own.  

Pal and Co., enjoy the day!  Sounds like a blast.  If I wasn't time zones away, I would love to join you gents.
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Re: CDApS Micro-Brew Tour 2017
Reply #44 - 12/31/17 at 18:18:08
 
So is there anything to report from yesterday's CDApS meeting?
Those of us that are stuck in the arctic cornfields are a curious bunch.
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Re: CDApS Micro-Brew Tour 2017
Reply #45 - 12/31/17 at 18:58:47
 
I was just typing when you posted Donnie.  I
Will keep it brief because I am still having trouble getting on the forum from my laptop so I Am on my phone.

It was a mixed bag both opinion-wise and from an equipment standpoint.

Eric thought my system sounded edgy while Aaron and I didn't feel the same way.  It could be that Aaron and I are both used to the Tang Band full ranger and Eric is running the El Caminos these days.  I do like the tweeter on those speakers. Aaron actually commented that he felt I had done a pretty good job taming the Tang Bands.

We started with my black top Rachael.  I did this on purpose because I wanted people to hear how good the 25th anniversary Zen prototype sounded.  I think there were mixed opinions on the soundstage as well but I think it's it is as good as i have heard.

One area of common ground was the bass.  My new sub build integrates well and I have solid tight bass.  Aaron didn't know I was running it.  This was dumb luck of course, as I have no idea what I am doing.  I do think that the Dayton audio sub driver I am using is very musical. I just built the cabinet to the specs they list for the flat pack they sell.  It is positioned where it is because I had room and couldn't really move it by myself so it sits where I put it together.  I know you Augies or 15a people might be saying "do I need more bass?" But the 40hz down the sub adds increases the chest feeling.  I just did it as an experiment not knowing it would integrate well and sound so tight.   Worth the $225 I spent.

Aaron did mention that he thought his multibit Schitt dac did better highs, particularly cymbals which left me curious and thinking about upgrading my bifrost.

We transitioned to the Zen and hit a technical snag.  Sounded static-y in one channel.  Once it was on a bit it seemed to snap into place.  More on the amp in the developments thread but it's a great amp and very engaging.

One of the music finds was an album Aaron and Mary recommended. Ulver the assasunation of Julius Ceasar.  Kind of trance or ambient but had great bass and melodies.

Our next snag was with the svhs tape player.  It may need to
return to the mothership if I can get the tracking right.  Only one channel played and that was static filled.  I put in another deck and it was off as well.  Finally I put in my pro deck and it played well.  The conclusion was that the Dick Hat band was the most tape like in our opinion.

We were fortunate in the both Eric and Aaron brought their significant others.  It helped to lighten things up as they made fun of our obsession.
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Re: CDApS Micro-Brew Tour 2017
Reply #46 - 01/01/18 at 15:40:19
 
Yes, the significant others provide levity to our obsessions.  8-)

Sue says: "Why do you need even more....than SS Rotel, SDA SRS 1.2's with your Pro-Ject Debut Carbon?" ....as I played BREAD, for her on the TT making breakfast..... .

.....I tell her...it's a whole other level!  Great, that she keeps the balance in my life.
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Re: CDApS Micro-Brew Tour 2017
Reply #47 - 01/01/18 at 22:02:21
 
Thread is a great read. Palomino sorry I could not make it out there during the holidays to hear your system. I will be traveling back to Illinois in February maybe we can get together. Lonely Raven, your Omega Alnico Super 8's are enjoying my Rachel. have been swapping between 807's and 5933 tubes, trying to get my room treatments done is another matter. Happy new Year to all of my Decware mates.  Brian
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Re: CDApS Micro-Brew Tour 2017
Reply #48 - 01/04/18 at 18:25:23
 

I'm super busy at work, and getting over yet another illness - so I've not had time to post or be in the forums.  

I'll wait for Tom to post an official CDApS meet - but he summed it up pretty well.  I did bring my DirectStream and Roon Server over, but with all the technical issues with the little Zen and the Tape Tour setup, we were just running out of time and didn't need to futz with setting up a whole new DAC/Server/Library.

Quote:
Thread is a great read. Palomino sorry I could not make it out there during the holidays to hear your system. I will be traveling back to Illinois in February maybe we can get together. Lonely Raven, your Omega Alnico Super 8's are enjoying my Rachel. have been swapping between 807's and 5933 tubes, trying to get my room treatments done is another matter. Happy new Year to all of my Decware mates.  Brian


I'm glad to hear that, and I'm really missing those speakers - but it helped me put a down payment on a truck that I love and gets me to and from work safely, so that's important.

You'll love those 807.  I pulled mine out of my ZMA last night and put the stock KT66 in, and while the amp got more of it's grunt back, it lost some of the lushness those 807 bring.  If I can stop getting derailed by illness and work drama, I hope to spend more time on house projects and audio projects!
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Re: CDApS Micro-Brew Tour 2017
Reply #49 - 01/09/18 at 16:42:17
 
My girlfriend and I both had a great time! Thank you Tom for hosting the meeting. The main takeaway seems to be that the bass in our room is in desperate need of help after hearing your room/system. Mary heard bass in the Ulver song that she had never heard before. This has led to increased discussions on room treatments and experiments with amps and speaker placement, including trying every possible position for the sub. Unfortunately it seems that no matter the placement the listening position is in a total low bass dead zone. I’m not even sure that can be fixed with a reasonable amount of room treatments as we are really looking for the 20hz - 35hz range, although improvement higher up is much needed as well, so we will likely start building some treatments as soon as possible.

The VHS sounded surprisingly good when there weren’t technical issues. The look of a VCR in a hifi system is pretty funny, and as it became a stack of VCRs trying to find one that could play properly was hilarious. Hopefully someone got a picture of that. Despite its sound quality I don’t see adding a VCR to my system anytime soon, but I now know if I ever do I’ll need to find a way to completely hide it.

I’ve been paying a lot of attention to the way cymbals sound since getting the Multibit as they stand out so well and sound so wonderful with it.  However I have noticed that cymbals actually sound very good on my other systems that are using non-multibit Schiits too, though not quite as good as the Multibit. Tom I’d be interested in if you notice a difference in the cymbals on the Ulver song if you used your Bifrost rather than your Teac.

The experience has really reinvigorated my interest in experimenting with and trying to improve my systems and rooms. Something that had stagnated a bit as I was thinking they were sounding pretty good.
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Zen OTL, Mini Torii II and III, “El Camino” MTM speakers, Tang Band 1808s used with SVS Sub, Schiit Gungnir Multibit, DIY "Zbit", dedicated circuits.
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