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Tekton Lore (or Uruz) versus Zu Audio Omen's (Read 760 times)
alper_yilmaz
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Tekton Lore (or Uruz) versus Zu Audio Omen's
11/27/17 at 15:57:53
 
There is a long discussion (and of course fight) on Audiogon forums for comparing these two speakers.  However, after some certain point, the discussion has turned into repetition of the same argument points without much reference to a technically description.  The link is below...

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/zu-omen-or-tekton-lore

I am enjoying my B&W DM630's (at 91dB efficiency) a lot with my SE84UFO, but I have not been able to get over the itch with trying the amp with higher efficiency speakers.

I tried it with a Zu Audio Druid mkV just last week at a friend's place, and I must admit I did not enjoy the bass response at all, but that was in a different room, with different sources and with no preamp.  The combination sounded dry, bass-shy and a bit into the face.

Now, with my B&W's which are much cheaper than the Druids, and which are pushed into the corners of my bedroom (a lot of mechanical coupling from each side), I have this strong bass response and the details, headroom, soundstage and the holographic image of music are just so right!  Then one might ask "why the itch?"  Well, I simply cannot believe that a mass-produced lower-end speaker of B&W can sound this good (I believe back in the day, they were sold for $1,500 or so, but today in the second-hand market I could not even sell them for $300).  I know even quite a number of mastering studios use high-end B&W's, but mine are really mediocre at best (or so I think).  Of course, this is not a function of how much a piece of gear is worth, but we are talking about speakers around similar price ranges (Lores are $1,000, Uruzs are $1,200 and Omen Dirty Weekends are $1,000) anyway.  

So, relying on the decency of discussions here at Decware forums, my questions are:

- Should I just stop looking around as long as I like the sound from my B&W's?
- If I were to go for either of the speakers mentioned in the Subject line Lore or Uruz, versus Omens), do you happen to have heard them and could you share with me your two cents?

Best,

Alper
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JOMAN
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Re: Tekton Lore (or Uruz) versus Zu Audio Omen's
Reply #1 - 11/27/17 at 17:28:47
 
Alper,
If only there was an ďAudiophile After BiteĒ, oh how I wish there was Cry.

Havenít heard the Lore, Uruz or Omenís so I cannot comment.

However, as to the question of looking around.  I have to admit that in order to get to where I am I have had to face the same question and then fight emotion with logic and somehow make that work (discipline).

Iím burning in a pair of Omega S3HOXRS.  At one point I was thinking about the bass response and as I was thinking about it a friend who was listening beside me said ďIs there a subwoofer in those speakers?Ē

That got me to thinking (logic, very hard for a non Vulcan).  Bass response, how many instruments extend below 40hz?  I believe 3.  Next, I know that human hearing sensitivity to frequencies below 100 hz tapers off quite significantly.  Finally, the room.

Options, different speakers - no way!  Regardless of any itch.  Z-Rock2?  Hmmm... addresses the issues that logic brings to bear.  So I ordered a Z-Rock2 because it made sense.

Might be a consideration.  Check it out with the speakers that are making you happy now and if the itch continues it can only improve whatever you decide to scratch it with if you decide to.

Cheers!
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alper_yilmaz
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Re: Tekton Lore (or Uruz) versus Zu Audio Omen's
Reply #2 - 11/27/17 at 18:52:48
 
Smiley

Thanks for the response, John.

You're right; the low E of an electric bass is at 41.204 Hz or so.  The problem is more so with the way most speaker manufacturers publish their specs.  In the bass amplification world, this is even worse; you cannot rely on any of the specs most manufacturers publish.  They say their speaker model X can go down to Y Hz, but without mentioning with how much cut in the SPL.  So, you try the speaker and it sounds thin and needs some significant support for low end.  

Actually, that is what happened with my Hoyt-Bedfords (by Omega).  With my SE34I.2+, they always sounded thin and I tended to blame the amp for it; yet even with my TORII mkII, I needed some bass enhancement.  Don't get me wrong; Omegas are great speakers, but most of the single-driver designs do not work for me at the expense of eating some of the power at the crossovers.

Coming back to my B&W's. they are down to 53Hz, and the Druids I listened to are listed for as low as 30Hz, almost close to 3/4 of an octave difference (maybe even more, I have not calculated).  Yet, the bass coming out of my B&W's is so solid and good; whereas the bass coming out of the Druids was very thin and weak.  I run my SE84UFO at home with a preamp, but even at low volumes there is enough bass.  At my friends, I tried it with a source with 2V constant output which should be enough to make the amp work at its full capacity.

Again, basing a decision under different room and source conditions and making strong judgments are not wise at all; but having spent years as a musician and having been through a lot of guitar, bass as well as audio gear, I believe I have a general gut feeling about how a speaker is likely to sound under different room conditions.  And I really cannot see the Druids cutting it for me with my SE84UFO.  

However, when I read some of the forums, and most recently the one on Audiogon on the Lores and the Omens, I thought I need to give either one of them a try despite the potential that I will really not like them.

Maybe you should send me some "logic" coupled with some chilly Ontario air, John!  :)

Cheers,

Alper
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JOMAN
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Re: Tekton Lore (or Uruz) versus Zu Audio Omen's
Reply #3 - 11/27/17 at 20:18:52
 
Cold chilly Ontario air - no problem, coming your way.  Logic well that may be a tall order.

If you want to know whether or not the Lores or the Omens are really what you envision from the reviews - only one way to know.  But that is a very steep and slippery slope to get on to and it appears that you are aware of that.  Not saying donít do it just saying consider why your doing it.

If the reason is - to scratch this itch because itís going to drive you mad - sure, why not, other than afterwards thereís that possible ďwhy did I do this, now I got to sell these things for $500.00Ē.  That happens after you get acclimatized to your new wonder speakers and you realize that they are not wonder speakers after all.  

Now, if you want to change your speakers for a specific reason and can identify that reason then thatís another matter all together.  Now you can bring all of your experience to bear (and you do have ďsomeĒ experience, probably a lot more than some of the reviewers) then add to that the relavent experience from others who have been in similar circumstances and you will start by making an informed decision, but be prepared to see it through until you reach your goal.

By the way, thereís a real nice pair of Omegas up for sale in the classifieds, little more than a thousand dollars but could be the start of something really good and youíve got a grand towards them anyway... hows that for logic.

What I can tell you is that my SE8484UFO2 with all the associated components is delivering density in spades, fills a large area no problem and the bass is really good but Iím still working on that in a no compromise manner.  Itís not the amp!  The Omega speakers that I have, have two drivers not one, so do the ones that are for sale in the classifieds and they are 97db!

Somehow I donít think this is going to help, is it?  Probably complicating the obvious... Wink






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alper_yilmaz
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Re: Tekton Lore (or Uruz) versus Zu Audio Omen's
Reply #4 - 11/27/17 at 20:27:27
 
This is great help, John; thank you...

Actually, the good thing about some of these speaker manufacturers including Zu, Spatial and Tekton is their 'no-question-asked" return policy within 30 or 60 days.  But at the same time, these are small operations with only a few people and most probably they are in the business more for the love of it than making millions out of it, and just because of this I would not like to use the policy in an abusive manner.  In other words, I would not just buy it, try it, and return in a month or so, and move on to the next alternative.  

As soon as I make up my mind about a change/upgrade, though, I will take action.

In the meantime, I will look into the Omegas as well, of course.

Best,

Alper
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whoopycat
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Re: Tekton Lore (or Uruz) versus Zu Audio Omen's
Reply #5 - 11/28/17 at 18:05:05
 
Hey Alper,

I own 3 pairs of Zu speakers: Omen DW, Soul Superfly, and DefHeads (which are the top half of the Definition IV without the subwoofers, sealed cabinets), so I can offer you my impressions.  

I haven't heard Druids but the Superflys have the same driver.  The Superfly can indeed sound a bit lean, and depending on the combo of setup/placement/amp, possibly bass shy.  I battled with mine before discovering tone controls can be your friends.  My Superflys benefited greatly first from using a vintage Sansui integrated, and now from the ZRock2.  Juicing the bass signal a bit and increasing the floor gap over what Zu recommends (I go about 5/8 to 3/4" off the floor), and now I have all the bass I need, and it is fast and textured as well.

Omen DWs are the user-friendly of the Zu line, and do not sound dry or lean.  They are warmer, with a midbass bump, and thus are more amp friendly, like Zu says on their site.  They are more "music lover" speakers as opposed to audiophile speakers, as they lose a bit of resolution in comparison to their higher-priced brothers.  That said, IMO the Omen DW is hard to beat for $999, although I highly recommend having Zu put in ClarityCaps, or ordering the ClarityCap kit from Zu down the road (which is really easy to install), which is another $100.  The ClarityCap opens up the sound a bit and smooths out the treble.  You might even prefer the Omens to the Druids you heard.

I don't have a Zen amp yet to say how it plays with Omen, but I will in a couple months when mine is built.  That said, I use a Chinese SET with my DefHeads and it's my favorite system.

Hope that helps.
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whoopycat
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Re: Tekton Lore (or Uruz) versus Zu Audio Omen's
Reply #6 - 11/28/17 at 18:07:23
 
Oh and I will also add that I once tried a Zu subwoofer but it didn't work that well in my room, and Zu was totally cool about it when I returned it.  So I wouldn't feel guilty at all if you decide to try the Omens and want to return them.
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alper_yilmaz
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Re: Tekton Lore (or Uruz) versus Zu Audio Omen's
Reply #7 - 11/28/17 at 20:03:10
 
Thank you very much!  This is very helpful information.

Best,

Alper
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jslateiv
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Re: Tekton Lore (or Uruz) versus Zu Audio Omen's
Reply #8 - 12/05/17 at 15:29:07
 
I have owned Meadowlark Osprey's, Zu Omen's and Triangle Celius 202's,..   I got the Omen's to replace the Meadowlarks AFTER buying a SE84 and needing a more efficient speaker,..  Couldn't have been happier with the purchase..  Over the years I made mods to the Omens' at Sean Casey's direction and while inexpensive, the mods completely transformed the inexpensive Omens into a serious speaker.  Most recently,  I replaced the Omen Drivers w/ the current  Druid/Def. drivers. and are getting ready to make a few more mods at Sean's suggestion mainly around some internal bracing.   These speakers (even w/original Non-nano drivers) rock and sound great,   it is /was the low, mid-low range that really drew me into them,..  so connected, deep and fast.  

The Triangles I bought to add to a HT setup in a dif room.  Good, very smooth speakers but a lil bass shy... would not trade for my Zu's,..  Have yet to find anything I would trade for them honestly.   I also had the opportunity to listen to the new Tekton's (Electron) with the 'special crossover/driver' tech that they are touting,.. A friend had bought a pair and ran them a good 100hrs. by the time I listened.   While the mid-up range did sound good,  they were horrid in the low end,..  a muddy, undefined mess.   Completely turned me off to the Tektons.  He returned them as well.

All in all,  as Whoopycat said,...   The Omens and especially the current Dirty Weeknds (that now incorporate a lot of my mods) are gonna be hard to beat at their price,..    I have also found that placement is not as super critical as is with other speakers,..  definitely makes a difference but you have a much wider range to work with..   Hope this helps,..  And if you have questions,  the Zu team is AWESOME to work with.

I should also mention that I am currently running them with a LM-219 amp,..  but they sounded great on the little ol'SE84!  Hope this helps
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alper_yilmaz
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Re: Tekton Lore (or Uruz) versus Zu Audio Omen's
Reply #9 - 12/05/17 at 16:51:42
 
Thanks jslateiv,

This is very helpful.  Unfortunately, by the time I was about to make up my mind and go for the Omen Dirty Weekend (which sold for $999 a pair), the sale is over.  I will look for another sale opportunity in the future...

Best,

Alper
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jslateiv
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Re: Tekton Lore (or Uruz) versus Zu Audio Omen's
Reply #10 - 12/05/17 at 17:25:21
 
Seems I see the DW sale relatively often (3-4 x a year)  I would bet that there is another in the 1st Qtr. of 2018.   Make sure you are on their mailing list and you will be notified as soon as they are ready to release,..   It also doesn't hurt to call them and ask if they have any Omen MkII's returned and going up for sale,..  A lot of times if you call and talk to them,  explain your situ,.. if they have something returned they may offer at a better price then they post online,..
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whoopycat
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Re: Tekton Lore (or Uruz) versus Zu Audio Omen's
Reply #11 - 12/05/17 at 18:30:08
 
jslate, how big a difference did the 16 ohm drivers make in the Omens?  I should try that sometime and pop my Superfly drivers into my Omens.  I wonder if you get the best of both worlds with the faster driver but with the copper internal wiring.
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alper_yilmaz
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Re: Tekton Lore (or Uruz) versus Zu Audio Omen's
Reply #12 - 12/05/17 at 18:55:08
 
I just talked to them and as you suggested they will look into their list and try to squeeze me in!  Thanks for the suggestion jslateiv!

One question regarding your upgrades...  Are the drivers on the Druid's compatible with the Omen's?  Usually, speaker manufacturers try to voice their enclosures in line with the specs of their drivers and I can see that the Omen and Druid boxes are quite different from each other.  Also, does your driver upgrade include the tweeters as well?

Best,

Alper
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whoopycat
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Re: Tekton Lore (or Uruz) versus Zu Audio Omen's
Reply #13 - 12/05/17 at 19:07:53
 
Alper, no it's drivers only, not tweeters.  Druid uses the Radian tweeters which are much bigger than the Eminence tweeters on the Omens... like we're talking a 2 lb tweeter vs a 15 lb tweeter.  

Although I'd be curious if you begged Zu to cut a bigger hole in an Omen cabinet to put a Radian tweeter in whether they'd do it.  They probably would if it's physically possible and you're willing to pay to ship them the speakers and have it done.  Those tweeters are amazeballs with high treble.

Zu uses the same 16 ohm driver in Superfly, Omen Def, Soul Supreme, Druid V, and Definition IV.  They are the same diameter as the 12 ohm drivers and therefore can fit in an Omen cabinet but I believe they are slightly heavier and longer.
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jslateiv
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Re: Tekton Lore (or Uruz) versus Zu Audio Omen's
Reply #14 - 12/07/17 at 17:48:09
 
Whoppycat/Alper,..  I had the 2nd version non-nano 12ohmers (flatface phase plug) from about 8 years ago,  the driver upgrade difference was night and day,..   easily the best, most noticeable upgrade to those speakers I had made (w/my current amp),...  I had toyed with the idea of upgrading to the 'Omen' nano drivers (didn't even think about the 260ND's even being an option),  but decided to talk to Zu first and run some ideas by them (Sean).  Went with the 260ND's at Sean's recommendation,..  I believe his recommendation had a lot to do with the amp I am using, (25/w SET)..  regardless,..  holy mother what an improvement,.. They are a bit different design as well,  one would surmise 'higher end' but at the cost of not being as easy to get along with (in terms of system matching).   I think that box volume is pretty similar amongst their speakers,  bigger difference being in mechanical resonance control employed between the different cabinets, and shape...   Also in my case,  the original tweeters I had were the Apt50's that have since been updated to ASD1001's,..  So I did upgrade those too,..  any new Omen/OmenDW and a few others are going to have those ASD 1001 tweets,..  and yes they were a noticeable improvement over the APT50's as well.  

All in all,  most everything that I felt was a weak spot with the originals was taken care of in spades with the new drivers.   And for anyone thinking that they (Zu) just use 'off the shelf' pro drivers from Eminence,..  they couldn't be more wrong.  Yes, emenience makes the drivers for them,  but to exacting spec's,material and layup that Zu has honed in on through a ton of R&D,..  they are far from 'off the shelf' inventory,...

I really can't say enough about working w/Sean @Zu.  Always a great experience.  You can tell that he/they love what they do and really want their customers to have the best experience, regardless of what it means to their pocket ($$),  more $ or less $...    Sorry to sound like a 'Fan Boy',  I am to a degree but really enjoy sharing the positive experience I have always had w/them,...  I can easily throw Decware in the same mix/camp as well,  and a few others such as PS Audio,...   Truly some of the more exemplarily companies out there today!
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whoopycat
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Re: Tekton Lore (or Uruz) versus Zu Audio Omen's
Reply #15 - 12/07/17 at 21:29:50
 
That's cool.  Yeah, unfortunately talking about Eminence drivers gives some haters the impression that these are kit-level speakers or something.  

You bring up a good point about system matching.  When I listen to Omen and Superfly side by side I can hear the difference in attack and resolution.  However, Omen is so eager to please that moving to Superfly really can feel like a tradeoff instead of an upgrade, especially if you aren't in love with your amp.  It's definitely a drier sound.  I need to do a driver swap and see how Omen-plus compares to Superfly.  I'm also waiting for my first Zen amp to see which sounds better to me.
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Rraymond
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Re: Tekton Lore (or Uruz) versus Zu Audio Omen's
Reply #16 - 12/08/17 at 15:13:02
 
Alper,
I have Zu Soul Superflyís and absolutely love them. Letís start off by first saying how cool they guys at Zu are and how their #1 goal is to make sure you are completely happy with your gear and sound. I bought Sean Caseyís personal speakers while at the RMAF 2016. The color is called rattlesnake which is a very cool burgundy that changes to gold or green from different angles. These replaced a pair of ERRx speakers I had and the difference to me was a nice improvement. A bit more forward, more bass and vocals to die for! †As far as the druids go, I remember Sean saying they definitely are very room dependent so that may explain the lack of bass at your friends house. When I first got the Superflyís I was running them with a Torii Jr. and no preamp. Plenty of volume and bass, typically never turned the volume past 12 and that was really rocking it out. Currently I am running them with an 8 watt SET amp by Audion. With the volume at 9, itís got every bit of punch I need to hear every detail. At 12 itís so loud I need to be in the other room. Iím just giving you an idea of how little power the Zu speakers need in order to make your ears happy. I canít beleive Zu can sell the Omens for a grand and with their liberal 60 money back guarantee, why not give it a try. Those guys at Zu are so laid back that I bet if you needed 90 days(which Iím sure you wonít), they would be fine with that.
We can all chime in our personal taste but itís your ears that need to make the decision.
Good luck,

Rick
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Audion Silver Night Special Edition 300b integrated, Zu Soul Superfly speakers, Acoustic Solid TT with Denon 103 MC cart, PS Audio NuWave phono, Zu Event MKII speaker cables with BU3 connectors.
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alper_yilmaz
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Re: Tekton Lore (or Uruz) versus Zu Audio Omen's
Reply #17 - 12/08/17 at 16:54:07
 
Thanks Rick!  Actually, I called Zu and talked to Gerrit.  He will try to get me in the line for something during this season.  If not, I will definitely look into the promotion during next time, most probably in Spring.
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jslateiv
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Re: Tekton Lore (or Uruz) versus Zu Audio Omen's
Reply #18 - 12/08/17 at 17:52:51
 
Whoopy,   I didn't notice the sound (when switching the drivers) becoming any 'drier'.  What I did notice was a big increase in resolution, attack and general smoothness across the freq. domain...  Where the orig. drivers tended to sound a bit congested and a touch 'boxy' at times,  esp. in the +/- 1K region.  The new drivers really cleared all of that up,..  way more so than I was expecting.  I also had an Ayon Spirit III in house while running a 2nd sys. for a bit,..  For what ever reason it did not jive as well with Omens,.. Sounded damn good,  but not Great as it does with the 845's.   I have also paired with a FirstWatt J2, SE34, SE84, Manley Stingray.   I have always found, as you are saying that the Zu's are a pretty synergetic dependent speaker,..  there is definitely an easily heard difference amongst other equipment,  esp. amplifiers!  Would really love to hear them with Torii or ZMA compared to my 219,..

Alper,  What amp do you plan to drive the Omens with?   When I first got mine,.. I had a SE84 as a spare, bought on a whim.. and a Manley Stingray as my main amp,..   the little SE84 saw me sell the Stingray to purchase a se34.3. I loved the 84 that much,..  The 84 sounded so good on the Omens but I wanted more..  For my tastes the 84 was sufficient for about 70-80% of my listening.   The se34, I loved as well!  but was only sufficient for about 90-95% of my listening.  Not having that last 5% was killing me.  I moved to 845 SET based power,..  covered the last 5% lol!  Still,  while I love my 845's and their respective sound signature,  they are not Decware amps,..  If you are planning on running your Torii or 34,  you most likely will be very happy with the available power (esp. w.Torii),...  While there is def. a lot of magic to the sound of the 84,  you very well may feel you want a little more at times,..

As RRaymond said,...   In  the end it all comes down to your preferences,  your room and your specific equipment in the chain,..  Let your ears be your guide!

Also,  if you talk to Gerrit again,..  tell him Johnny Upgrade said hi,..  he'll get a kick out of that!!
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alper_yilmaz
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Re: Tekton Lore (or Uruz) versus Zu Audio Omen's
Reply #19 - 12/09/17 at 08:04:57
 
Hey jslateiv,

I will be driving the Omens with my SE84UFO. †As this is my bedroom system, even now with 91dB-efficient speakers, I find the volume more than enough. †With the Omens, I expect more detail and more headroom. †My current signal chain is:

MacBook Pro or Rotel CD player or Apple TV ó> Copland DAC215 DAC/pre ó> SE84UFO ó> B&W DM630

The cabling is DH Labs and I have Stein and BlackNoise filtering...

Cheers,

Alper
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« Last Edit: 12/09/17 at 08:05:24 by alper_yilmaz »  
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jslateiv
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Re: Tekton Lore (or Uruz) versus Zu Audio Omen's
Reply #20 - 12/09/17 at 16:01:14
 
Gotcha,  you very well may be content then.   You may even love them so much they dont stay in bedroom very long,  ;D    And worst case, youíve got 60 days to try and if they just dont jive for ya you can send them back for little $ lost.   Win/Win in my book, esp. with a componet that will probably make the (or one of the) biggest difference in sound change within your system!

Best!
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Tommy Freefall
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Re: Tekton Lore (or Uruz) versus Zu Audio Omen's
Reply #21 - 12/11/17 at 18:03:44
 
Alper, on your MacBook Pro - what application are you running for your music files?
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Torii Jr., ERRx, ZBIT, Zenhead, Grado 325e
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alper_yilmaz
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Re: Tekton Lore (or Uruz) versus Zu Audio Omen's
Reply #22 - 12/11/17 at 19:36:17
 
Hi Tommy,

Currently, I am using iTunes for my own library or streaming from TIDAL.  In my other system which has a Mac Mini, I have invested in Amarra, but it seems to have too many bugs and I have not been satisfied with the user experience, so I stopped using it on that system as well.

People rave about Roon, but I do not want to spend more at this time on the interface.  Maybe that would be my next on the ToDo list.

Best,

Alper
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