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Interconnects & Power Distribution - Help (Read 1034 times)
Ron
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Interconnects & Power Distribution - Help
10/22/17 at 01:37:49
 
Looking to improve my power delivery to my equipment.

My Equipment:

- VPI Prime Scout
- ZP3
- Torii Jr
- ZROCK2
- HR-1

Currently everything is connected with Blue Jeans interconnects and stock power cords. I want to start locking in the last bit of improvements out of my system without dropping big bucks on a PS Audio regenerator.

TT -> ZP3, Decware Silver Reference wouldn't work, correct?

ZP3 -> ZROCK -> Torii Jr can all be 0.5m Decware Silver Reference?

Should I use a Decware Studio Interconnect between the ZP3 and the TT or just stick with the Blue Jeans?

Should I run DHC-1 power cords to every component including the TT or just run it to the ZP3 and Torii JR?

Power Distribution: Tripp Lite 1000VA Isolation Transformer, Torus, Shunyata Venom PS8, or PI Audio Group MiniBUSS (http://www.piaudiogroup.com/MiniBUSS.html)

Thanks again for the input, looking forward to locking these upgrades in.
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HR-1 + Torii Jr. + ZROCK2 + ZP3 + VPI Prime Scout + UberBUSS + TriodeWireLabs Seven/Ten Plus + ASC IsoThermal TubeTraps
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Acetone
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Re: Interconnects & Power Distribution - Help
Reply #1 - 10/22/17 at 06:22:14
 
Ron, such a difficult question to answer. You've got some great equipment there so yes: look into cables, clean power and...... don't forget.... room treatments. there are so many here who have spent $$$bucks on cables and power generation etc. I'd have to say you need to decide your price points max $ and work it from there, otherwise you might buy a bargains only to trade/upgrade, trade/upgrade, trade/ upgrade. A bit of what I've done ( and I am sure many others ).
I, like anyone else on the forums, can only speak from experience. ( there is a lot of that on the forums...a good thing!!).
I've seen decware cables on the forums for sale. I am sure they are awesome...but I've never tried them other that the studio grade DSR's which I loved. But I felt I needed better cables which I based on forum reviews of other $$$ cables. Earlier this year at the L.A. Audio show I was impressed with "Audio Envy" cables ( They also received awards for their cables at the show ). I've tried them and I am impressed and satisfied (Is anyone ever completely, for life, satisfied with their equipment?). So, either set the limit and try to get the best bag for the buck, or try the underdog cable and .....who knows!
power conditioners//// As you can see I have Blue Circle audio...Their mission statement interested me. I am happy with their products ( a bang for buck performer...But? is that the direction you wanna go).  Difficult questions....answers...choices.  It'd be so much easier without a budget!
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SuperZen-CKC, ZP3, Zstage, ZRock2, DM947-Monoliths, VPI-Traveler-2M black. Philips CDR-880. Decware/Audio Envy/RAC-PC's & IC's, Mapleshade Dbl Helix+ Spkr wire-jumpers, Blue Circle PLC FX2 X0e. Herbies tube dampers, tenderfoots, GIK & PI Audio, DIY room treatments
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Ron
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Re: Interconnects & Power Distribution - Help
Reply #2 - 10/22/17 at 10:24:12
 
Thanks Acetone!

As far as room treatments, that is high on my list but I have a clearer idea of what I want to do. Going to try RealTraps Corner Bass Traps + First Reflection Point + Rear Wall Absorption. I have such a small room 11x 12.4 x 10 that I don't need much diffusion.

I have a hard time spending a ton of money of power cords, which is why the Decware DHC-1 cables are a logical step for me.

Everything would be easier without a budget!

I'll keep research and report back here. Thanks again Acetone.

As an aside, I really do love this Decware forum because its such a great community and everyone just wants to help each other out! Thanks!
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HR-1 + Torii Jr. + ZROCK2 + ZP3 + VPI Prime Scout + UberBUSS + TriodeWireLabs Seven/Ten Plus + ASC IsoThermal TubeTraps
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flargosa
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Re: Interconnects & Power Distribution - Help
Reply #3 - 10/23/17 at 02:04:40
 
Sandy Gross, founder of Polk, Golden ear and I think Def tech.  Says you should split your budget into thirds, 1/3 goes to speakers, 1/3 to amp/source and 1/3 to room treatments.  I think for most of us it is 0% in room treatment and $500 - $1k in cables.  Then we hear a 1% improvement in sound and it is money well spent.  ;D
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Sources: 2Qute, Hugo, Rega P5, Marantz SACD 8005.
Amps: Decware SE84UFO2, Nelson Pass Aleph
Speakers: Klipsch Palladiums, Golden Ear Triton Two, Focal Elear.

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Ron
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Re: Interconnects & Power Distribution - Help
Reply #4 - 10/23/17 at 02:17:42
 
@flargosa

Very good point, I am happy with my investment at this time.

$50 in an Emotiva PDU, stock power cables, blue jeans cables.
The OCD in me would like to have the nice Decware Cables, but you're right, room treatment (a la RealTraps) should and will be next.

Ciao,
Ron
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HR-1 + Torii Jr. + ZROCK2 + ZP3 + VPI Prime Scout + UberBUSS + TriodeWireLabs Seven/Ten Plus + ASC IsoThermal TubeTraps
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Lon
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Re: Interconnects & Power Distribution - Help
Reply #5 - 10/23/17 at 03:30:50
 
flargosa wrote on 10/23/17 at 02:04:40:
Sandy Gross, founder of Polk, Golden ear and I think Def tech.  Says you should split your budget into thirds, 1/3 goes to speakers, 1/3 to amp/source and 1/3 to room treatments.  I think for most of us it is 0% in room treatment and $500 - $1k in cables.  Then we hear a 1% improvement in sound and it is money well spent.  ;D

I have 100% wife, so that's why there's 0% audiophile room treatment that isn't a thick rug, curtains etc.

But I have fantastic sound anyway, integrated into my living area, and I'm so grateful! Keep at it, bit by bit you'll be improving your system.
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« Last Edit: 10/23/17 at 03:32:52 by Lon »  

HR-1,ZP3,ZTPRE,Torii MkIII,ZBIT,ZROCK2,Taboo MkIV;PS Audio:Soloist SE,DMP+DSD,P10,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs,Mapleshade:Dbl Helix+,SamsonV2+V3;CambrAudi CXU;Rega RP3,TTPSU,Groovetracer upgrades,Exact2;VooDoo Cremona +Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner,Oppo PM-1,Audeze LCD-2
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Archie
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Re: Interconnects & Power Distribution - Help
Reply #6 - 10/23/17 at 19:07:56
 
Ron,

FWIW, I use the Decware Silver ICs from my ZP3 on and some shielded silver ICs between my TT, SUT and ZP3.  I notice very little difference with various ICs but some increased clarity with the silver.  I also use the Decware power cords.  I can't hear a difference with power cords.  I went with what seemed a reasonable and "safe" cable compliment without spending a huge amount of money.  My room is huge and complex and treatment isn't an option for me.  That could be a reason why I don't hear much difference in wires.  Perhaps you should look to room treatment before making any cable decisions?

I saw that you posted about TT isolation.  I think that equipment isolation is critical and even more important than room treatment since if the source isn't clean it won't improve later on.  If your Scout is on spikes (I think that's how they come) you could be getting all kinds of distortions there.  My detail improved as my isolation improved.
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Jeff1
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Re: Interconnects & Power Distribution - Help
Reply #7 - 10/23/17 at 23:50:10
 
If you don't have any room treatment at all I urge you to do that first. It will help you better evaluate your system currently and when you do any upgrades.
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Esoteric SA-50, ZMA, Legacy Sigs SE w/Metro Sub, PI Audio Uberbuss, All Cables OmegaMikro, Room treatment absorbers, diffusers and tube traps.
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Ron
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Re: Interconnects & Power Distribution - Help
Reply #8 - 10/24/17 at 01:35:41
 
Agreed, starting with room treatment and equipment isolation first is a good plan.

Looking at the following for room treatment:

Corner Bass Traps: 3x - http://realtraps.com/p_mondotrap.htm
I only have 3 useable corners, there is a door in the entry/4th corner.

First Reflection Point: 2x - http://realtraps.com/p_rfz.htm

Back Wall: 2x - http://realtraps.com/p_minitrap.htm

---

As far as equipment isolation, I have no idea where to start. I was very interested in the Segue ISO from Symposium Audio. http://www.symposiumusa.com/segueiso.html

---

Here is my current equipment rack / vinyl storage:

https://images.cb2.com/is/image/CB2/SuspendMediaConsoleAV1SHS16_16x9

Thanks for the input!

-Ron
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HR-1 + Torii Jr. + ZROCK2 + ZP3 + VPI Prime Scout + UberBUSS + TriodeWireLabs Seven/Ten Plus + ASC IsoThermal TubeTraps
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DB2
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Re: Interconnects & Power Distribution - Help
Reply #9 - 10/24/17 at 12:43:02
 
Don't know your price range, but for isolation I have had very good results using an Audio Vault rack. Here's a review at Positive Feedback:

http://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/audio-vault-usa-rack-2/
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Archie
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Re: Interconnects & Power Distribution - Help
Reply #10 - 10/24/17 at 16:15:49
 
Quote:
As far as equipment isolation, I have no idea where to start. I was very interested in the Segue ISO from Symposium Audio. http://www.symposiumusa.com/segueiso.html


Unless there is specific isolation built in, any "rack" will vibrate.  I think individual component isolation is almost always needed.  I'd start with the TT and speakers.  The audible frequency range is so wide that a combination of isolation and damping using various materials is probably the best approach.  Those Symposium platforms look interesting.  If you go that way keep us informed as to how they do.
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« Last Edit: 10/24/17 at 16:18:46 by Archie »  
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Ron
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Re: Interconnects & Power Distribution - Help
Reply #11 - 10/24/17 at 16:18:58
 
Thanks Archie,

I am going to do just that, start with TT and speakers. I want to let those HR-1 enjoy their new home!
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HR-1 + Torii Jr. + ZROCK2 + ZP3 + VPI Prime Scout + UberBUSS + TriodeWireLabs Seven/Ten Plus + ASC IsoThermal TubeTraps
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Archie
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Re: Interconnects & Power Distribution - Help
Reply #12 - 10/24/17 at 16:41:36
 
I was amazed at what isolation under my HR1s did to tighten bass.  How much do those Symposium platforms run?
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Lon
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Re: Interconnects & Power Distribution - Help
Reply #13 - 10/24/17 at 16:44:08
 
I now use Herbie's Audio Lab "Iso Cups" under my HR-1s, with the Deep Moss Quartz "balls." Awesome sound as a result and decouples the speakers from the floors.
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HR-1,ZP3,ZTPRE,Torii MkIII,ZBIT,ZROCK2,Taboo MkIV;PS Audio:Soloist SE,DMP+DSD,P10,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs,Mapleshade:Dbl Helix+,SamsonV2+V3;CambrAudi CXU;Rega RP3,TTPSU,Groovetracer upgrades,Exact2;VooDoo Cremona +Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner,Oppo PM-1,Audeze LCD-2
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RayBan
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Re: Interconnects & Power Distribution - Help
Reply #14 - 10/24/17 at 21:04:17
 
It's already been mentioned a few times by a few different folks but one of the most noticeable improvements I've heard is when I added room treatments. Even the wife took notice Smiley
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"Music Is The Answer"
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4krow
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Re: Interconnects & Power Distribution - Help
Reply #15 - 10/24/17 at 21:39:43
 
So, back to power cords and cables. You have a good idea about the path that you will be taking already. I have found used power cables to be pretty much the best bang for the buck. In my case, I found Pangea and PS Audio cables to work well. When it comes to interconnects, Decware has some great offers, but again look for used. Yah, cables can make a difference, but so much that you can't wait for the best deal.
 I was so lucky to have found a BPT power conditioner for almost nothing. It provides balanced AC power, separated by individual secondary windings. This made as much improvement as anything else that I did for my system in that respect.
 You sure have a great TT to start with. Isolation almost always improves performance unless there wasn't much of a problem in the first place.

 Lastly, it is unfortunate that your room dimensions are so closely related by their measurements. This will likely be the dragon to slay. Good though that you are on board for some reliable room treatment.
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« Last Edit: 10/24/17 at 21:40:57 by 4krow »  

Decware 34I.3 integrated amp/Forte' 3 bass amp/Velodyne SMS-1 bass mngmnt system/Decware ZOB speakers/BESL subs/Emotiva ERC3 CD player/BPT 3.0 power cond. PS Audio P500
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Palomino
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Re: Interconnects & Power Distribution - Help
Reply #16 - 10/25/17 at 21:47:48
 
I am a disciple of the Room Treatment Lord Raven so I must chime in on the treatments.  I am not sure your room is too small for diffusion, but absorbers are a good place to start.

(Where are you Raven?  A new recruit!)

I would also be remiss if I didn't mention DIY for cables.  Its not everyone's cup of tea, but I have had pretty good luck with various recipes out there.  For my main power cables though, I did go the route of used PS Audio and have never looked back.
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i7 Mac Mini with LPSU/SSD running Audirvana 2, Uptone Audio Regen on LPSU, Chord QuteHD with LPSU, DIY Belden ICs, Torii MKIII, SE34I.32, PS Audio P5 Power Supply, PS Audio Power Cords, Vintage Western Electric 16g Speaker wires, DIY Speakers
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Ron
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Re: Interconnects & Power Distribution - Help
Reply #17 - 10/26/17 at 02:11:52
 
Thanks Palomino!

Regarding Diffusion:
RealTraps said don't bother with diffusion.
GIK said to use their Alpha absorption/diffusion combo.

Q: Absorption Behind HR-1?
GIK said to put absorption directly behind speakers, RealTraps said not to.
My question is, with these being radials, is there any input on this forum regarding absorption behind the HR-1s?

I emailed ASC as well for their input on the room.

Thanks again!

Ciao,
Ron
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HR-1 + Torii Jr. + ZROCK2 + ZP3 + VPI Prime Scout + UberBUSS + TriodeWireLabs Seven/Ten Plus + ASC IsoThermal TubeTraps
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Jeff1
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Re: Interconnects & Power Distribution - Help
Reply #18 - 10/27/17 at 03:56:50
 
You may need to experiment with your acoustic treatment placement. Your earlier idea of first reflection points and rear wall and corners will cover the basics enough for you to hear an improvement. My first absorbers were fiberglass drop ceiling panels 1 or 2 thick. you can buy some inexpensive cloth wrap them and mount them with T pins. they are easy to move and depending on thickness will do a decent job in the upper range for early reflections. I think it is 8 24x48" panels perpack with cloth you may be under 100 bucks
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Esoteric SA-50, ZMA, Legacy Sigs SE w/Metro Sub, PI Audio Uberbuss, All Cables OmegaMikro, Room treatment absorbers, diffusers and tube traps.
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Palomino
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Re: Interconnects & Power Distribution - Help
Reply #19 - 10/27/17 at 17:57:22
 
I'd agree with Jeff1.  I read all the stuff out there from the various companies and then just decided to experiment.  And because I was experimenting, I did it on the cheap with DIY.

Also, I have heard the HR1s multiple times but don't know much about how they work with room treatments.  Based on what I heard, I think they do lessen the need given their Omni directional pattern.

So there are lots of opinions out there but mine is that it does matter the kind of speakers you have.  For open baffles, I find diffusion at the first reflection point to be best.

I started with two absorbers.  Through experimentation, I now have all diffusers (around 20 of various types and sizes) and use my absorber stacked together in the corner as one giant bass trap.  All except one set of Styrofoam diffusers are DIY.
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i7 Mac Mini with LPSU/SSD running Audirvana 2, Uptone Audio Regen on LPSU, Chord QuteHD with LPSU, DIY Belden ICs, Torii MKIII, SE34I.32, PS Audio P5 Power Supply, PS Audio Power Cords, Vintage Western Electric 16g Speaker wires, DIY Speakers
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Ron
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Re: Interconnects & Power Distribution - Help
Reply #20 - 11/05/17 at 09:53:19
 
Yes, the need for massive amounts of room treatment may be unnecessary however I have a challenging room. Placing bass traps is step one and that is what I am doing.

I created a whole room treatment post in the proper section of this forum. I will re-measure and post over there tomorrow.

Thanks!

-Ron
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HR-1 + Torii Jr. + ZROCK2 + ZP3 + VPI Prime Scout + UberBUSS + TriodeWireLabs Seven/Ten Plus + ASC IsoThermal TubeTraps
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