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How to get the most "clinical" sound (Read 1413 times)
roggae
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How to get the most "clinical" sound
08/14/17 at 02:43:47
 
this might be too general a question but using the tubes available to us, is there a way to create a "clinical" sounding torii?  what i mean by clinical is specifically detail oriented and dead quiet.  maybe it's my tubes, but when i listen with my ear to my speaker(i know this is insane)i hear tube static - distortion - i imagine.  anyway what i'm wondering is are there specific tube types that are known to sound more clinical or more like SS?  maybe i'm not making sense.... Grin
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roggae
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Re: How to get the most "clinical" sound
Reply #1 - 09/23/17 at 18:47:39
 
I guess this is a pretty vague question. What Iím wondering is how do you get the most pure sound from the torii? The least contoured by tube set brand make year. Just what tube numbers are best for getting a pure zen sound? In your estimation.
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Lon
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Re: How to get the most "clinical" sound
Reply #2 - 09/23/17 at 19:49:19
 
I would guess that the stock tube set would be the benchmark Zen sound. . . .

Otherwise I think room and personal taste and system synergy make it very hard to say "this is it" for anyone other than oneself. . . .
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Jeff of Arabica
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Re: How to get the most "clinical" sound
Reply #3 - 09/23/17 at 20:03:12
 
Excellent answer Lon!
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Re: How to get the most "clinical" sound
Reply #4 - 09/24/17 at 00:21:30
 
Well said.
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Lon
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Re: How to get the most "clinical" sound
Reply #5 - 09/24/17 at 02:55:01
 
If seeking a "clinical" sound in my system this is magnified/achieved (that's possibly two sides of the same coin) with the Ruby 5U4G rectifiers, Electroharmonix or Gold Lion 6922s, and Tung-Sol EL34 tubes. That's a sort of sound I find clinical in my system, and is NOT the sound I want from my system.

I'm finding a warmer, sweeter sound with RCA 5V4 rectifiers, Philips or or Mullard 6922 types, and 6CA7 or KT66 tubes.

The beauty of my Torii (which is a Mk III) is that it is a chameleon--even with a clinical tube set as mentioned I can change the nature of the sound with the "tone controls" and the bias and speaker settings. It's fascinating how I can make almost any tube complement musical. This is the genius of the design for me and what has cemented the amp as the heartbeat of my system.
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« Last Edit: 09/24/17 at 02:55:49 by Lon »  

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roggae
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Re: How to get the most "clinical" sound
Reply #6 - 09/24/17 at 04:51:32
 
hey guys.  thanks for the comments.  in my head i was thinking it was the stock tube set, but i dont really have any one to bounce these ideas off but you guys.  so i've gotta go back and try the stock tubes - and remember what those were!  my main concern here is that those tubes will have a lot of hours on them. i guess we'll find out when we find out!  the one thing i remember about the stock tube set was that i struggled with boomy bass n a room that was problematic to say the least.  cheers folks!
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will
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Re: How to get the most "clinical" sound
Reply #7 - 09/24/17 at 06:49:32
 
roggae,

What tubes are you using now? And what do you, and don't you like about the sound from that set? From there we could recommend something to help clean things up.
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roggae
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Re: How to get the most "clinical" sound
Reply #8 - 09/25/17 at 03:32:22
 
currently i am using Telefunken E88CCs stock OA3s/input regulators, and sino kt66's.  i know the kt66s are supposed to be superior - and when they were brand new my gold lions were - but these seem flabby in the bass spectrum.  for example, any bass guitar be it acoustic upright or electric just sounds like the sustain and release of the note.  i hear no attack.  does that make sense?  i have bass control switches on.  the boomy bass has always been an issue with this setup though it seems like all these components should play well together.  VPI scout>Jolida Phono Pre(modified)>Torii>Zu Audio Omens.  when i had the kt77s in the output stage the bass got tight for sure.  then i i began to wander.  i've got a lot of tubes to choose from at this point(KT77,KT66,EL 34II, 6L6, 6922, 7dj8, pcc88s,etc).  thanks for sticking with me will.  i feel like if i learn how the tubes all relate to eachother and how they work in tandum - i'll begin to figure things out more for myself.  i mean i play modular analog synthesizers so i kind of understand the synergy of electronics...sorta... Huh
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will
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Re: How to get the most "clinical" sound
Reply #9 - 09/25/17 at 14:51:52
 
roggae,

I feel for you. I have worked a lot with bass issues here also, so can help.

Those KT66 and E88CC could sound good. You can fix this I think, or at least seriously improve it.

Your problem sounds like way excessive bass buildup, mucking it up and unbalancing the sound with bass masking the bass itself, and very likely higher up too. Have you played with the impedance switch. One way should be less dense/pushy, reducing bass muddle.

Do you have bass traps?

Does it help to pull the Omens out from the wall/corner?

Do the Omens have some kind of bass porting system in the bottom? If so, you might be surprised what you can do with those. Experiment with incrementally plugging the vents...some stiffish foam, or polly fill, or even a cut up cloth...something you can adjust.

How do you like the mids and highs? Would you like them cleaner and more complex?

Where is you treble knob set?

What are your rectifiers?

The reason I am asking all these questions is that there are a lot of ways to reduce bass intensity, looseness/tightness, etc with tubes, each having different effects higher up... So trying placement and speaker tuning more specific to bass would be the best start. Then tubes will depend on how you would like to mids and highs to sounds relative to now, while reducing bass muddle.

Let me know about these things and and we can move to tubes. You can do a lot with Regulators and Rectifiers, but more information on your overall sound, and if you can tune things with the speakers would make it easier to get you just where you want to go with the least trial and error and cost.
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« Last Edit: 09/25/17 at 14:56:23 by will »  

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will
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Re: How to get the most "clinical" sound
Reply #10 - 09/25/17 at 15:00:26
 
Sorry. ICs and speaker cables can really effect bass as well. What are you using?
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roggae
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Re: How to get the most "clinical" sound
Reply #11 - 09/25/17 at 16:19:47
 
will,

so i love the overall sound - which i assume is mostly the mids - i have the speakers pulled out from the wall a way and i imaged them using a monophonic recording.  i got one speaker to sound the way i wanted it then mirrored the other.  i have sound panels all over the wall and am building more today.  i've thought about putting some on the ceiling but i'm short and not sure where to put them.  the bass porting on the omens has been addressed and should be good where it is.  i also have the speakers on some isolators i bought off audiogon.

as for the highs - they could be more complex and i feel liek i should have more spacious sound but that might be due in part by the bass saturating.  trebel knobs are set at halfway between all the way up and all the way down.  no particular reason other than i just kind of put them there, unless something is especially harsh in the upper range.  the rectifiers are whatever came stock.  they are not labeled.

thanks man!
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will
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Re: How to get the most "clinical" sound
Reply #12 - 09/25/17 at 18:36:12
 
Glad to help if I can roggae.

Quote:
the bass porting on the omens has been addressed and should be good where it is


Do you mean by the design, or did you work on them. If by design, all our components were tuned by the makers to be "right," but for whatever reasons the room and system together are creating problems.

Mirroring the speakers probably worked because the distance between the speakers worked right for attenuating or canceling the offensive wave forms depending on how much or little the wave peaks opposed one another.

I had to do a lot plinth plugging on my HR-1s and MG 944s in my room, and though not by design, it is easy, tunable, and did a lot to solve the overall problems based on many things...ending up with tight and natural bass. I don't just hear really nice attack, but fingers on strings, all aspects of the body, and fade into ambience.

If you have not done anything yourself there, and can get to them, this might really help. Or perhaps as good, and easier, if your isolators have flat panels on top, you could try symmetrically plugging the space between your speaker bottoms and your isolators, just the outside 1/2" or so...Incrementally attenuating bass this way is a valid way to test adjusting the whole of your sound, not permanent, easy, cheap, and fine-tunable fix if it works. If the outside edge thing works the way things are, I might try about half the width of the space, plugging each side of the speaker in the center of the spaces. Then add or subtract...Or maybe the whole of the back and then sides and front to tastes....If it does improve things musically, less intense tube adjustments could be used.

Panel-wise, I guess you have read up on this, but unless your room panels have diaphragms tuned to low frequencies, they are not getting close to seriously reducing the low bass, likely a lot of the problem. You can find online references that talk about the frequencies 2, 4, 6" etc of dense fiberboard or rockwool will actually effect strongly.

Space behind them can help, bouncing the waves back through the panel, so more treatment....but still, to get low is tricky and taking out too much here or there creates other problems.

I wonder, speaking of ceiling...what about making some big triangles for the corners, where the bounces back through the panel would be much more complex than a straight panel out from a flat wall, attenuating more frequencies. Maybe put some bubble wrap on the back of the panel too to effect more frequencies???

The trouble I found with absorption, is that at some point more is not better, killing too much mid and high frequencies and/or cutting too much "liveness."

I can point you to more serious bass adjusting tube work, but if you can do more with room and speakers, you might get a more powerful improvement, and then want tubes that are less intensely design to reduce bass...

I guess your turn table is not being adversely effected by vibration???

What do you think?


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« Last Edit: 09/25/17 at 18:55:03 by will »  

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roggae
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Re: How to get the most "clinical" sound
Reply #13 - 09/25/17 at 22:16:07
 
honestly i've spent hours tuning the room and speakers.  the most dramatic adjustment to the sound has been with tube changes.  although i did notice a big difference when i moved to the basement where we have lower ceilings and less reflective surfaces.  when my stereo was upstairs you could play it in one room and in another only hear these deep low bass sounds.  you didnt hear those same sounds in the room necessarily.  i really dont know what to think.  some times i want to throw up my arms.  sometimes i tinker.  mostly i just live with it.  i mean, it's not a REAL problem.  anyway i'm going to include some pics: https://imgur.com/gallery/HkBGG

sorry my camera is jacked.  wont stay in focus so i'm constantly trying to snap a pic while its focusing...
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Archie
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Re: How to get the most "clinical" sound
Reply #14 - 09/26/17 at 00:58:44
 
Quote:
when my stereo was upstairs you could play it in one room and in another only hear these deep low bass sounds.


I've been scanning/following this thread and I can't begin to compete with the great advice you've been given but based on the above, my instinct is to advise better speaker isolation. †If your structure is coupling with the bass then it's all getting muddied up together -- feedback and sound. †I saw that you had some kind of isolation device under your speakers but if †bass is going through your house structure like that, it's not working.

Edit:  I replied without seeing Will's comments directly above.  TT isolation is critical, especially if bass is coming through the structure.  Some consider room treatment essential (and it may well be) but in my opinion, you should start with isolation of every component but especially speakers and turntable.
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« Last Edit: 09/26/17 at 01:02:18 by Archie »  
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roggae
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Re: How to get the most "clinical" sound
Reply #15 - 09/26/17 at 02:33:17
 
the boominess is present with turntable or digital formats.  the first thing i did was isolate the table.  first i moved it away from the speakers then i moved all the components away from the speakers.  any benefits were outweighed by the awkwardness of that configuration.  i really appreciate you folks spitballing though!
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Re: How to get the most "clinical" sound
Reply #16 - 09/26/17 at 18:07:33
 
My journey with isolation really began when my new ZMA had horrendous feedback an higher volumes when resting directly on a very solid support.  At that time my speakers sat directly on my wood floors.  Putting the ZMA on an isolation platform removed all of the feedback.  Once my speakers were isolated, all boominess also was gone.  I isolate my TT more for the micro detail.  I've never noticed any effect of air-born vibration on my individual components but I'm sure there are subtle impacts.

Sounds like you have that problem in hand but had I not gone through my experience I wouldn't have appreciated how damaging vibration coupling can be for any component, digital or analog.
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will
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Re: How to get the most "clinical" sound
Reply #17 - 09/26/17 at 21:23:50
 
Hey roggae,

I get your frustration. It seems the Torii and source are not an easy bass fit with your speakers.

I believe you can get it though...

I see your speakers are 12 ohm. Is your Torii set up from Decware for 8-16 ohm impedance, or 4-8 ohm? I don't really understand how this works, but it seems the way the Torii mates with speakers, especially for bass, can be more of an issue with some speakers than others. Have you called Steve and asked about the your Zus with the Torii? He may have some tips.

My amp is switchable 4 and 8 ohm output and my speakers are rated at 4 ohms. As I hear it, if the output of the Torii is set for lower 4 ohm impedance (less resistance/more flow)...the sound is bigger and fuller. For 4 ohms, the impedance switch (the one just in front of the speaker cable terminals) is set toward the back of the amp. Set the switch toward the front of the amp, the higher 8 ohm setting, the sound is cleaner, less big...the bigger ohm number for amp settings does not mean bigger sound....

It could be worth double checking the impedance switch and see if it helps one way of the other. I would think toward the front would be your choice to help solve bass issues. You can switch it while playing music, and choose the setting with less bass issues for a baseline.

The pics help. It looks like there are some sort of feet holding the speakers up off the platform? I gather Zu uses an atypical porting system. And I can't really see what is underneath but there looks to be a nice space between your isolation platform and speaker base, and looking back under the speaker base, it looks relatively deep. So it looks good, and easy, for experimenting without directly messing with anything under the speaker.

That gap between the speaker base and your isolator platforms is what I am talking about plugging to see if you can musically reduce low bass. I think it is likely to sound better if you do....the speaker bass loading design looks like it is "venting" low bass out the bottom.

If you adjust with regulators tubes, this would help, and is likely necessary as well from the sound of your bass build up problems. But they reduce the push/intensity to the inputs and power tubes pretty much across the spectrum. This shows up more as reduced bass, but will change the mids and highs as well, opening them up and mellowing them a bit...This is relatively subtle done incrementally, and will probably be good for your overall sound.

But trying plugging the bass ports is limited to the problem of bass only, so a more direct and I would hope, a more powerful approach to fixing the things you don't like. Just by reducing bass masking, it would open the mids and highs too, but the intensity of the signal will stay the same. This is why I recommend trying speaker adjustments first, and you can always pull the plugs out!

I have done everything, room treatments, power, tubes, cables, and EQ, and love my sound. And judging from how bad your bass buildup is, you will likely want to do both tubes and speaker adjustments if you want to get really close to the beauty, but doing it incrementally is good learning for future refinement.

The thing I tried to remember before I became a died-in-the-wool "adjuster," is that this is your system/room. And no matter how good the designs of your components, they are creating an unbalanced problem with each other, and with your room. Together, they are messing up your musical pleasure. You should be able to get great beauty from your system/room, it just might take more work in different areas. Especially since a drone bass sound implies pretty heavy issues, you probably have to cover more areas.

So this is where I would start:

Close up that space between the isolator platform and speaker bottom, trying to calm the level of bass bass coming out the bottom of the speakers to less powerful/more musical levels. It looks like about a 1/2" vertical space. Is that about right? Some "backer rod" foam would work well, enough bigger than your space height so that it will hold well after you gently press it into the gap.

This http://www.homedepot.com/p/Sika-3-4-in-Closed-Cell-Backer-Rod-108130/202523820 might be about right...or whatever size seems good based on the actual gaps height. All building supplies carry it as far as I know, and it is cheap.

Omen specs say they they are 12" square at the bottom. Bass being soooooo powerful, I would try a fairly dramatic adjustment at first just because here, with my speakers, I had to close them down a lot. I suspect this will be similar there, but maybe not.

Not knowing how the port setup is arranged, it is hard to guess the absolute best way to go. Could be worth a call to Zu and see if they have any ideas, or if there are limitations you should be aware of.

If it is open evenly all around now, my thought would be to plug all sides evenly...leaving vent spaces in the corners, but doing substantial blocking...hopefully enough to reduce low bass nicely.

I might try 8 pieces cut to 10" long or so, one for each side, centered within the 12" width....pressing the foam in with the big side of a chop stick or dowel or something else dull and wide enough, but small enough for the job. I would start just barely pressing the foam into the gap so that the outside of the rod foam is just a little deeper than flush with the outside edge of the speaker base, the inside not directly interfering with anything. With about 1" on each outside edge open, each corner would add up to roughly 1.5" inside spaces for venting bass. Plugging one edge at a time and listening could be instructive. Starting in the backs, then sides, then front would be interesting to listen to as you go.

Too much bass cut? If the bass level is close to good, I would take it really easy. Here, the point at which it gets "just right" is an amazingly narrow window, after which, a 1/2" too much opening gets more muddy. Since the closest room corners load bass more, maybe start by opening the front space 1/2" or so, leaving the back as is? Still too much, maybe try cutting 1/2" or less off the fronts of the side pieces, opening the front corners a bit more....a little at a time...

Alternately, if the original even blocking setup with about 10" pieces is not enough bass cut, it might be intersting to totally plug the backs, filling in with a 2" piece. Then if that is still not enough, maybe slide the side pieces back enough to touch, or nearly touch the back piece...closing the back corner gaps, the front space on the sides now bigger, but the more bassy back smaller....

The thing to me would be to incrementally close the bottom, keeping tuned in to any potential problems as I go....and adjusting if need be. My thought would be to try and get to where bass is reduced to good levels while still remaining musical, and still allowing port venting.

If you were to put me on the spot to guess tubes based on your report, I would lose the OA3 first...the big voltage regulator that effects the push intensity of power tube. I use OB3s in my main room, one step toward more-open/less-bass compared to stock OA3s. But I really like OC3s (a step further into less bass/more open) using them before I got into seriously refined EQ in my main room. I still use OC3s in my Torii III in my work room. And my bass buildup was not as intense as yours sounds, so the OC3 is likely a safe bet and you might even need OD3s, the furthest into open/less-bass you can get with these Regulators.

Old Hytron OC3s are really nice, nuanced and transparent sounding...

These look good to me and wouldn't hurt too bad if they don't suit you: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tests-NOS-Date-Matched-Pair-CBS-Hytron-USA-JAN-CHY-0C3-O...

And for chilling the intensity/bass at the inputs, I heard first from Lon about Tesla OA2 equivalents....good sounding tubes that will calm the input tube intensity musically...with warmish texture. They are less pushy than your stock OC2s (the little Voltage Regulators in front), and will do a similar relaxing thing as the OC3s will do for the power tubes, but differently because the inputs have a different effect on the overall sound than the power tubes...

I suspect you may want to use both the bigger OC3, and the little OA2 together, but if one happened to be enough, having both to choose from for variations on the same theme could be a nice tuning tool. If you order both, it is not much cost/risk for the pleasure they could potentially provide.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-X-11TA31-TUBE-OA2-TUBE-0A2-TUBE-TESLA-BRAND-TUBE-NOS-2... This lot being from a big box, I would ask them for a pair that matches in construction, appearance and tests if possible.

Hope this helps! If these tubes are not enough, there is more, but rectifiers and inputs are more expensive and regulators might put you in a good place!
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« Last Edit: 09/26/17 at 22:14:34 by will »  

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roggae
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Re: How to get the most "clinical" sound
Reply #18 - 09/27/17 at 02:34:13
 
Will - Wow!  So i went through the bass porting stuff with Zu a while back and had it dialed in at one point.  they port out the bottom via slots that run about 10" on each side of the bottom.  anyway i think you were on to something with the ohms.  my amp is wired 16/8.  when i switch the impedance switch to the back i get what seems more dynamic, but it's not more dynamic it's more "airy" and at times more shrill.  it also seems to be the source of my low end issues.  i switched switch positions and the bass issues are pretty much gone.  so i'm gonna put a few hours in listening to both records and my squeezebox tonight.  got any recommendations? Cool
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roggae
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Re: How to get the most "clinical" sound
Reply #19 - 09/27/17 at 02:38:27
 
is there a "for dummies" explanation for how all these tubes work in relation to one another?  so i get the 0A tubes are regulating voltage of the outputs and the VR are regulating the inputs, right?
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will
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Re: How to get the most "clinical" sound
Reply #20 - 09/28/17 at 23:18:15
 
Glad the impedance switch helps. Since it was as bad as it was....just sustain, no attack, those were extreme bass issues, so my guess is that it sounds much better now, but could sound better again? For me this amp can make beautiful natural bass that does not mask mids.

A short answer for the VRs in a Torii III and IV. Both pair of central tubes are Voltage Regulators...VRs.

The big ones in the back center, stock, are OA3. In Steve's ingenious design, the way they are wired, OA3 filter noise while also effecting the intensity of the power tubes. The OA3 will give the most density/push across the spectrum, including the sense of bass. The rest of the big VRs will incrementally reduce push/bass, while opening the sound.

Signal intensity in descending order high to low:
OA3
OB3
OC3
OD3

The little ones near the volume, stock are OC2. OC2 filter and effect the intensity of the inputs. Like the OA3, the stock OC2 will give the most signal density/push including bass. Then OB2 are a little lower key, and OA2s are the most mellow in how they push the inputs...less intense push=less bass, more space, more apparent fine detail.

Signal intensity high to low:
OC2
OB2
OA2

So stock VRs are the most intense on both. And no two are quite alike in sound. All the OA3s I have sound different, and this can be a good tuning tool. Same with all the rest...All different makes of any given type are electronically about the same, giving a characteristic effect to the tubes that come after. But within that, like all tubes, depending on shapes, materials, design, they sound different...some more open, some more focused, some warmer, some more textured, etc......

I usually use OB3s, and 75C1s (Euro equivalent for OC2), warmer and more textured than RCA or Raytheon OC2s, yet still finely detailed. But my bass is under control from other work. I just prefer the lower key OB3s, OA3s being a little intense for my system/room most of the time. Depends what else is in there, but I very rarely use OA3s here.

Hope this helps.

Edit: Last I heard from Lon, he was liking toning things down a little the other way, using the more intense OA3, and the less intense OA2, the Tesla's mentioned above being like OA2 electronically and his current choice.

VRs are fun tubes to play with.

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« Last Edit: 09/29/17 at 18:15:44 by will »  

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Lon
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Re: How to get the most "clinical" sound
Reply #21 - 09/29/17 at 00:25:46
 
Yes, will, you have it right with my VR usage. I agree fun to play with. . . I do change things around a bit but end up with OA3 and OA2 (equivalent).
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Re: How to get the most "clinical" sound
Reply #22 - 10/02/17 at 05:08:15
 
that's very helpful will, thanks very much.  right now i've got stock oc2's, NOS GE 0A3's, the sovtek 5ar4's, and the sino kt66.  the reconstructive feedback is off and i've got the impedance set to the higher setting.  i love the control of bass, if it might even be a little lacking now.  it's definitely not giving me any of the sloppy garbage i was dealing with.  from here i feel like it could open a bit more and i could hear the attack of the bass a bit more but over all i'm very pleased with the sound.  so far i've only listened to Oliver Nelson's "Blue and the Abstract Truth", but that can be a problematic listen.  i really appreciate you taking the time to help me and do so with a genuine intention to help/educate.  thats pretty refreshing on the internet these days.  thought the decware forums are probably the most civil forums i'm on! LOL!  anyway - what are some VRs you'd recommend?  have any you'd like to unload?  thanks again! Cheesy
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Re: How to get the most "clinical" sound
Reply #23 - 10/03/17 at 15:43:35
 
Sounds like you are in a pretty good place now. Good to hear!

I wonder if it might be a good idea to settle into this new sound for a while and get more of a feel for what you would like to change after listening to more music? Or, I understand wanting to explore with tubes Wink

If the bass feels a little weak now, I wonder, do you think you can be pretty sure after such a big change? Is it possible that you got used to excess bass and that now it feels light, but could be more "right"??? Still lacking attack may indicate that there is still muddle from excess, but this could be frequency specific too. If specific, to get really fine-tuned, you may need to be able to reduce buildup areas with low going traps and/or EQ.

Or, maybe just adjustments by tuning your speakers a little further, tubes, switches, or a combination of these would do it. It sounds like you are much closer, so these general adjustments might be pretty pleasing.

Wanting more bass attack, and more openness, both could point to a lower key VR, but that would reduce bass a bit too.

This is not necessarily what it seems though. The interesting thing to me is how much the balance of bass effects what can be heard, and what is masked, and how these can effect perception of bass in general. In my room, often reducing bass "just so" can make the bass feel stronger.

Room/system dependent specific frequency buildups in the lower bass...the thickish muddle, can mush up the sound and also overwhelm higher mid-bass and low-mid attack information....Now that the bass seems tight enough, lack of attack could indicate masking is still happening, though to a less offensive degree. After tuning overwhelming frequencies into a better range here, attack can become audible again, and the bass can feel stronger.

Or it may be that attack frequencies are being cancelled, or reduced, by room....or both this and masking....More listening might make it possible to discern what is up.

There are more things to check out too. If after you get used to the sound with more recordings, the bass still feels a little light...Since the impedance switch did so much for bass reduction, leaving high impedance on, and turning the bass switch to off, could be worth a try. †

Once you have your settings tuned to the best sound you can for the range of music you listen to, then I could probably get pretty close with tube recommendations.

In that arena, your Sovtek 5AR4s are pretty nice tubes, but you could do better for bass tightness and for more openness within that tube type, and even more so, by going to a GZ32...but the best of them, Phillips/Mullard types, are most often pretty expensive.

If you are feeling a little adventurous, this tube is relatively reasonable and might take you into the direction you are craving....maybe be a nice system upgrade. If you go for it, I would ask the seller if they can do a matched pair and check shipping for both...Hopefully it might stay the same or close to the cost of shipping one.... http://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-to-50-GZ32-5AQ4-5V4G-U-S-S-R-1974-Matched-Rectifier-T...

Depending on what you need as things get more refined, I could either set you up with some VRs, or recommend some specific eBay sales. The OB2s you PM'd look like interesting tubes, and are so cheap, why not pick them up and try them! The odd tubes you pictured, none are tubes I know.

Hope this helps! Wink
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« Last Edit: 10/04/17 at 04:24:34 by will »  

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