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1 week with used Monoliths (Read 3068 times)
Tripwr1964
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1 week with used Monoliths
01/11/17 at 18:13:38
 
Need some help with these (they have 4ohm on driver, looks like midrange upgrade (plastic not aluminum), and px3.3 clarity caps)  
http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1483905937

I bought these used and received them last week.  they are very very detailed (ie bright) in my system.  to the point that my ears are fatigued in 10-15mins.  i can barely drink a beer before i am done!
see my gear below... decware pre's with ss amps.  room is 15x19 untreated.  ive tried different speaker cables, jumpers, and different input tubes on csp3 (mullards seem to fix everything...).  no luck.

bought these to dabble a bit in high eff speakers and contemplate low watt tube amp.  not getting off to a good start.  these are out there wrt to detialed/bright/forward sound.  so much so, i've got them listed to sell.  right now they are in the category of i am not changing everything in my system to make these sound right (or even get them in the ball park).  ive had a lot of different speakers in this system, in this untreated room, that have sounded avg to stellar.  Not sure whats wrong with this combo...

i've heard these at decfest a couple years in a row and they didn't sound like this at steve's place.  thats why i bought them.

in the meantime, is there anything i can do to like these?
cap change?
remove the midrange thingy and replace it with dust cap?
ideas?

steve or ziggy?
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« Last Edit: 01/11/17 at 18:23:07 by Tripwr1964 »  

CSP3, CAD 120s MKII, Sota Star Sapphire, SME309, Pulse3, ZP3 jupiter, ZMC1, Schiit bifrost multibit, CEC TL5 transport, MG1.6QR w/ ext xo & mye stands/947/betsys. herbies iso, VH audio flavor diy pwr cords, Beden 8402 IC,
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Tripwr1964
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Re: 1 week with used Monoliths
Reply #1 - 01/11/17 at 20:28:31
 
I spoke with Steve about my synergy (or rather lack of) today shortly after posting above.

We're both leaning very heavily in the direction that I am hearing my amps for the first time.  With no crossovers in the Monliths we're thinking we are getting the true sound of these amps.  i.e. nothing to buffer or roll off this signal.  So, it's a bit harsh.

One way to find out.  I'll see if I can stir up a nice tube amp somewhere to try in place of these SS amps and see what happens.

thks Steve

stay tuned....
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CSP3, CAD 120s MKII, Sota Star Sapphire, SME309, Pulse3, ZP3 jupiter, ZMC1, Schiit bifrost multibit, CEC TL5 transport, MG1.6QR w/ ext xo & mye stands/947/betsys. herbies iso, VH audio flavor diy pwr cords, Beden 8402 IC,
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Steve Deckert
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Re: 1 week with used Monoliths
Reply #2 - 01/12/17 at 01:44:45
 

If you can't find a different amp to compare, you are certainly welcome to bring your amp(s) here and make the comparison.
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Tripwr1964
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Re: 1 week with used Monoliths
Reply #3 - 02/08/17 at 12:25:16
 
well ive tried 2 amps on these speakers so far with no luck.

the odyssey khartago se++ mono's were forward, bright, and fatiguing, but listenable at very low volume.

tried cary cad 120s mkii last week and it was unlistenable.  the noise and hiss was crazy loud.  that experiment lasted about 5mins.

both of the above amps match and play beautifully on my mg1.6's.

last test, i ordered a super zen to try with the 947's and the OB's i am building.

i'll report back in couple months when i get it.
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CSP3, CAD 120s MKII, Sota Star Sapphire, SME309, Pulse3, ZP3 jupiter, ZMC1, Schiit bifrost multibit, CEC TL5 transport, MG1.6QR w/ ext xo & mye stands/947/betsys. herbies iso, VH audio flavor diy pwr cords, Beden 8402 IC,
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Matchstikman
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Re: 1 week with used Monoliths
Reply #4 - 02/08/17 at 17:04:43
 
I've never been to Steve's place but I've seen the Decfest online a few times.  Steve's room is treated to the hilt.  Everything must sound great in there.  I wonder how the Decfest would go if the systems were demo'd in a regular living room type setting.

Lots of times you are at a store in a demo room that's set for great sound.  Then you but the system, take it home, and it doesn't sound the same.  

Rooms are everything, right?
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Tripwr1964
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Re: 1 week with used Monoliths
Reply #5 - 02/09/17 at 12:07:24
 
ms, yeah the room plays a big role but i am not even in the ball park with these yet.  my room isn't bad and isn't great either, and have had many other combos of gear over the years that are in the ball park.

we'll put them on a decware set amp and see what they do.  i fully expect to hear a similar sound i've heard at steve's.

i just wanted to dabble around in the low watt/high eff speaker thing.  just have to get the low watt amp in the equation.

all the speakers i've ever run have been in the 85-89 db range so this is all a little different and new.  learning and spending $$ along the way.  haha.  oh well keeps me out of trouble!
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Matchstikman
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Re: 1 week with used Monoliths
Reply #6 - 02/09/17 at 14:02:46
 
It has been my experience that low-watt setups are marvelous for the right setting and the right music.  If you like vocals and jazz and blues for late night listening sessions, they can't be beat.  But, crank up some Zepplin and they don't measure up.  Steve has said, I believe, that the correct speakers are necessary to make them work.

That's my 2 cents.
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Tripwr1964
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Re: 1 week with used Monoliths
Reply #7 - 02/13/17 at 14:23:13
 
well fellow member DBC was very gracious and reached out to me this past weekend and invited me to bring my DM946 (just the speakers) down to his place to try in his various super zen setups and a/b with his omega's and he also has some LFOB's.  so should be a great learning experience.

Think we'll call it the first "S(Springfield)DApS" meeting.  There will be no bobsled seating at these meetings however!  lol!

Hoping these speakers come to life.  I'll report out the results next weekend.

Thks for the invite Doug!
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CSP3, CAD 120s MKII, Sota Star Sapphire, SME309, Pulse3, ZP3 jupiter, ZMC1, Schiit bifrost multibit, CEC TL5 transport, MG1.6QR w/ ext xo & mye stands/947/betsys. herbies iso, VH audio flavor diy pwr cords, Beden 8402 IC,
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Donnie
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Re: 1 week with used Monoliths
Reply #8 - 02/13/17 at 17:40:29
 
Be careful in Springfield. There are many shady folks in that town. And no matter what you do, don't drink the water!
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Owner of the infamous RED TORII
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Matchstikman
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Re: 1 week with used Monoliths
Reply #9 - 02/13/17 at 19:19:03
 
Isn't that where Homer Simpson lives?  Forget the water.  Drink DUFF!!
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Tripwr1964
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Re: 1 week with used Monoliths
Reply #10 - 02/14/17 at 14:23:11
 
donnie, i forget you are from that area too!  i'll be on the look out for the guy with the big ears!

i find great value in discussing systems/rooms/future plans with others on this forum.  i've found it very resourceful and keeps me from venturing too far down a road i don't want to be on.  saves frustration and $$$.  so when you get a chance to listen to a couple 2-3 setups and a/b some stuff... i am all in.  doesn't cost me anything but a bit of gas.



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CSP3, CAD 120s MKII, Sota Star Sapphire, SME309, Pulse3, ZP3 jupiter, ZMC1, Schiit bifrost multibit, CEC TL5 transport, MG1.6QR w/ ext xo & mye stands/947/betsys. herbies iso, VH audio flavor diy pwr cords, Beden 8402 IC,
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Tripwr1964
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946's live!
Reply #11 - 02/19/17 at 12:57:54
 
stopped by DBC's place s. of springfield yesterday an brought along my 946's (monitors only) to try in his system.

his main system is a 2ch listening/ht in main room ~16x22ish with cathedral ceiling and adjacent hall, kitchen, and another room (so fairly open).  Minimal room treatement.

equipment:
SE84CKC upgraded w/ ufo and step
oppo 105
omega super alnico monitors (sitting on iso acoustics stands on auralex pads)
custom dual eminence alpha 15" lfob's

we started with above for reference point.  i brought along some cds that i like, and 1 i didn't like.  we started with the one i didn't like (echo and the bunnymen greatest), which always sounded very thing and harsh...  well sounded great with dbc's settup!  hmmm

we did some with and without lfob's.  this seems to be the key to his setup.  the ob subs really pull everything together, takes out the harshness, provides a solid bassline to tap your toes to, and just pain supplements the omegas to bring out their best.

drum roll....
in go the decware 946's.  very similar results.  i found the ribbon tweeters to be a bit more extended than the omegas, but tolerable.

so yes i am 100% confident that with a quality low watt amp (like the super zen i have on order) these speakers will satisfy most all listeners.

and steve you were right again.  i was just hearing my amps for the first time!!!

i'll be interested to see how the monolith bases play into this??
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20170218_095014.jpg

CSP3, CAD 120s MKII, Sota Star Sapphire, SME309, Pulse3, ZP3 jupiter, ZMC1, Schiit bifrost multibit, CEC TL5 transport, MG1.6QR w/ ext xo & mye stands/947/betsys. herbies iso, VH audio flavor diy pwr cords, Beden 8402 IC,
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Tripwr1964
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Re: 1 week with used Monoliths
Reply #12 - 02/19/17 at 13:00:35
 
lfob wiring

and thank you DBC for having me down!! appreciate your time and insight.

2ch ht is for real too! Cheesy
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20170218_095023.jpg

CSP3, CAD 120s MKII, Sota Star Sapphire, SME309, Pulse3, ZP3 jupiter, ZMC1, Schiit bifrost multibit, CEC TL5 transport, MG1.6QR w/ ext xo & mye stands/947/betsys. herbies iso, VH audio flavor diy pwr cords, Beden 8402 IC,
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DBC
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Re: 1 week with used Monoliths
Reply #13 - 02/20/17 at 22:38:42
 
Hello Tripwr1964,

Thanks for coming down last weekend and bringing along the 946's with midrange option. I knew you had less than stellar results with these on other amps and didn't want to see you give up on them. For others out there it was a chance to compare the 946's to my Omega Alnico Monitors. I should mention the Omega's are twice the price.

First off I've spent the last two years perfecting my Low Frequency Open Baffle's (LoFOB's for lack of a better term). Tried many different materials and configurations to arrive at the current design. As Tripwr1964 states they just add a lot of Heft, Scale & Dimension to any monitor. Anyone wanting to know more can PM me for details.

First off I have about 1,500 CD's and they all sound great and or at least good with my Omegas being reinforced with the LoFOB's. I like a lot of meat and dynamics in my Blues and Rock & Roll. I can't remember the song but one opened with dynamic drums and tripwr1964 commented "That Startled Me."

The Omega Monitors are physically about twice the size of the 946's. Comparing both with the LoFOB's active, I thought the 946's did extremely well while pounding out just as much volume. On less than stellar recordings the Omegas were still very listenable (a bit smoother) while the 946's were a little edgier (but not unpleasant). I had to dig deep into my worst recordings to find anything that would bring out the slight edge on the 946's. I should mention we were playing everything at high volumes. At half the price I could be very happy with the 946 monitors.

Without the LoFOB's active both speakers have very tight bass and a good quantity of bass given they are monitors. Without reinforcement from the LoFOB's however the sound stage from both speakers tends to collapse between the speakers on average recordings. Hook the LoFOB's back up and the sound stage spans beyond the room walls. Should mention the LoFOB's really add dynamics to music at medium to lower listening volumes.

I also demonstrated a couple Blue-Rays for Tripwr1964, he was particularly interested in the dialogue clarity from two-channel. Even while Bombs were exploding the dialogue all came through crystal clear and you believed the words were coming from the actors mouths on the 110" screen some 3 to 4 feet above the speakers.

I've heard people say you can only do Jazz and Acoustic Guitar with 2 watts. I think Tripwr1964 would agree we Rocked without the desire for additional volume in my Largish room. The LoFOB's really disappear, there was never a time we wanted to disconnect them (quite the opposite actually) and they never called attention to themselves.

Near the end we listened to a small system Oppo 83SE, Zen Select with 12" LoFOB's I have in an 11 x 12 foot room with carpet and bare walls. I told Tripwr1964 "There Is Nothing Good About This Room, This Should Sound Like Absolute Audio Hell". We proceeded to enjoy a number of again average recordings that appeared to extend well beyond the walls of this small room.

The LoFOB's are passive meaning no extra amps and they are crossover free so no time smearing. In other words very simple to set-up. Getting them to sound so seamless has everything to do with materials, baffle configuration and stabilizing the baffle which all took a long time to get right. I'm building up a few more pair right now with some final details.
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Main System: Oppo BDP-105D, SE84UFO amp, Omega Super Alnico Monitors, Twin Custom SLAB 15's (Low Frequency Open Baffle).
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Bottlehead
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Re: 1 week with used Monoliths
Reply #14 - 06/21/17 at 07:05:11
 
Hey DBC,

I like what you are doing with your open baffle bass. I'm doing something similar, but with different wiring. I split the signal at the speaker terminals of my amp, with one set of cables going to my DM945s, and the other set going to my HSU Research sub amp, then out to my two 12" SB Acoustic woofers in open baffles. This has given my 945s a new lease on life. I would like to try your configuration, tho. It looks like you are sending the signal direct to the speakers, and then daisy chaining to the woofers from there. Is that correct? No sub amp?

Thanks for the info,
Randy
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doukhobar
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Re: 1 week with used Monoliths
Reply #15 - 06/21/17 at 18:08:35
 
I was wondering the same thing, about how your subs were wired. Thanks!
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Tripwr1964
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Re: 1 week with used Monoliths
Reply #16 - 07/25/17 at 08:28:40
 
yeah doug had them daisy chained from the 945 terminals to the alpha 15a's.
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CSP3, CAD 120s MKII, Sota Star Sapphire, SME309, Pulse3, ZP3 jupiter, ZMC1, Schiit bifrost multibit, CEC TL5 transport, MG1.6QR w/ ext xo & mye stands/947/betsys. herbies iso, VH audio flavor diy pwr cords, Beden 8402 IC,
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