Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
Decware Audio Forums
01/22/18 at 14:13:07 


 



Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
Wife's looking at old turntables (Read 9058 times)
Rraymond
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 198
Wife's looking at old turntables
03/02/16 at 20:08:37
 
So my wife suddenly decided she wanted a vintage record player. She know I'll soon be getting my Tori Junior and ERRX speakers but I'm not sure what her real reason for wanting one is. So I asked her, do you want something old and cool to just look at, or do you want something that looks vintage but also sounds decent?  At first I think she just wanted an antique looking player but now I feel she would really enjoy listening to some lp's through the new system when it arrives. So I'm wondering which direction to stear her in. Is there some turntables out there that have a cool vintage vibe that would also sound good and be somewhat reliable?  She was bidding on a 70's San Sui that she lost out on. I'm thinking her heart is in the right place but neither of us know what to look for to satisfy both the look she is after and a decent sound. Any suggestions?
Back to top
 
 

Audion Silver Night Special Edition 300b integrated, Zu Soul Superfly speakers, Acoustic Solid TT with Denon 103 MC cart, PS Audio NuWave phono, Zu Event MKII speaker cables with BU3 connectors.
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 13310
Re: Wife's looking at old turntables
Reply #1 - 03/02/16 at 21:04:53
 
Does she really want a "vintage" table? I'd recommend a new table for a number of reasons: freshness, improved technology even at entry level points, warranty.

I love my Rega. I sold my backup Rega to one of my best friends because he kept bugging me about it and for a month he's sent me an email a day professing his love for that turntable. There are many choices at many price points for new tables.

The entry level Rega RP1 is less than five hundred and has a great look imo.

http://www.rega.co.uk/rp1.html

Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 03/02/16 at 21:07:06 by Lon »  

HR-1,ZP3,ZTPRE,Torii MkIII,ZBIT,ZROCK2,Taboo MkIV;PS Audio:Soloist SE,DMP+DSD,P10,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs,Mapleshade:Dbl Helix+,SamsonV2+V3;CambrAudi CXU;Rega RP3,TTPSU,Groovetracer upgrades,Exact2;VooDoo Cremona +Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner,Oppo PM-1,Audeze LCD-2
  IP Logged
hdrider
Seasoned Member
****


On the path with
Decware.

Posts: 428
Re: Wife's looking at old turntables
Reply #2 - 03/02/16 at 21:12:36
 
I would second Lon's thoughts, but if the 500.00 puts you off, look on USAudioMart as they seem to have a lot of product go through there. Nothing cooler than vinyl played through tubes, musically speaking. Happy listening, Chris.
Back to top
 
 

Rachael, ZP3, ZMC 1, SE84CS, Oppo BDP-93, Sota Star TT w/ FR-64, Dynavector D17 mkIII Moving coil, Omega 7XRS Mk 2 walnut, DeepOmega 8 sub, Morrow Audio PH3 and MA3 IC's, Stax Lambda Signature Pro & SRM-T1 tube amp, Gamma Electrostatic phones.
  IP Logged
Archie
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 756
Re: Wife's looking at old turntables
Reply #3 - 03/03/16 at 00:17:05
 
I'm partial to direct drive TTs in which case "vintage" may be the only way to go.  They are getting harder to find cheap but have a look at the Technics 1200.  They can be upgraded into hi fidelity machines as desired but are also quite fine in the stock configuration.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Crazy Bill the Eel Killer
Seasoned Member
****


Tubes Rule !!

Posts: 141
Re: Wife's looking at old turntables
Reply #4 - 03/03/16 at 03:09:31
 
Hello Raymond,

I have a vintage Dual belt drive in the basement. It's got less than a few hundred hours on it. I'm not going into the basement now to get the actual model number, but I know it's got one of those ULM ( ultra low mass tonearms ) on it, with the original cartridge to boot. Sounded very good when I fired it up. ( though not in a league with my other very high end tables, but still very, very good ). If you are interested, I will further more detailed info.
Price approx. $ 150.00

Cheers, Crazy Bill
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Rraymond
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 198
Re: Wife's looking at old turntables
Reply #5 - 03/04/16 at 15:51:46
 
Bill,
Do you have a picture of it?  Approximately what year is it and how does it only have a few hundred hours on it?
Back to top
 
 

Audion Silver Night Special Edition 300b integrated, Zu Soul Superfly speakers, Acoustic Solid TT with Denon 103 MC cart, PS Audio NuWave phono, Zu Event MKII speaker cables with BU3 connectors.
  IP Logged
hdrider
Seasoned Member
****


On the path with
Decware.

Posts: 428
Re: Wife's looking at old turntables
Reply #6 - 03/04/16 at 16:57:23
 
Rraymond- I sold and set up a ton of Dual TT (CS5000, CS505's) in the late '80's and early 90's as ''Perfect Sound Forever'' came into play(never did in my book). Good reliable sounding tables and arms. The didn't work too well with the Grado MM carts that we sold but fine with the Audio Technica's and Ortofons. Sit tight for Bill the Eel Killer to get you some info, it would be worth the wait. Happy listening, Chris.
Back to top
 
 

Rachael, ZP3, ZMC 1, SE84CS, Oppo BDP-93, Sota Star TT w/ FR-64, Dynavector D17 mkIII Moving coil, Omega 7XRS Mk 2 walnut, DeepOmega 8 sub, Morrow Audio PH3 and MA3 IC's, Stax Lambda Signature Pro & SRM-T1 tube amp, Gamma Electrostatic phones.
  IP Logged
Rraymond
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 198
Re: Wife's looking at old turntables
Reply #7 - 03/04/16 at 20:09:10
 
Chris,
Thanks for the additional info. I'll be looking forward to Eel's response. The wifey is more interested in looks whereas I'm interested in the sound. She really seems to lean toward the ones with wood bases. She told me she would consider buying a new Rega if I could put it into a cool wood base which I could do with a little extra effort with my wood working tools.
Rick
Back to top
 
 

Audion Silver Night Special Edition 300b integrated, Zu Soul Superfly speakers, Acoustic Solid TT with Denon 103 MC cart, PS Audio NuWave phono, Zu Event MKII speaker cables with BU3 connectors.
  IP Logged
KMokc
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 123
Re: Wife's looking at old turntables
Reply #8 - 03/05/16 at 05:09:23
 
Hi Rraymond,
If you are looking for vintage TT, you should take a look at Vinyl Nirvana as he restores classic Thorens TT. And they have the wood base your wife is looking for and I hear they sound excellent.

Kevin
Back to top
 
 

Sys 1:Rachel,Blumenstein Deluxe Orcas,Teac UD-501,Regen,MacBook Pro,Silnote RCA's,Rega RP6 GT Sub-plater,CW,Dynavector 20X2H,Nova II Sys2:Torii JR,CSP3&ZP3,Omega Super Alnico Monitors w/Skylan stands,Teac UD-501,Regen,Mac Mini,VPI Prime TT w/Ortofon Black,GH Cable
  IP Logged
Rraymond
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 198
Re: Wife's looking at old turntables
Reply #9 - 03/05/16 at 16:54:15
 
Thanks Kevin. Yeah it looks like he has some nicely restored tables although I'm not sure she wants to spend that much money. If Crazy Bill has the right table that can accommodate a base that I can make, I'm sure she would be happy with that.
Rick
Back to top
 
 

Audion Silver Night Special Edition 300b integrated, Zu Soul Superfly speakers, Acoustic Solid TT with Denon 103 MC cart, PS Audio NuWave phono, Zu Event MKII speaker cables with BU3 connectors.
  IP Logged
Rraymond
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 198
Re: Wife's looking at old turntables
Reply #10 - 03/06/16 at 16:30:53
 
Well, as all woman do she is looking at most everything on the net. She's showing me old suitcase ones that need repair and then switches to new ones by Musi Hall. From what I've read, it seems as though Music Hall is similar to Rega?  She came across the Rega Queen and likes the gloss black finish on that but will she be paying an extra couple hundred bucks just for the name?  I'm guessing the Queen is an RP1 with a limited quantity made after "Queens Artwork" for those Queen lovers out there? Undecided
Back to top
 
 

Audion Silver Night Special Edition 300b integrated, Zu Soul Superfly speakers, Acoustic Solid TT with Denon 103 MC cart, PS Audio NuWave phono, Zu Event MKII speaker cables with BU3 connectors.
  IP Logged
hdrider
Seasoned Member
****


On the path with
Decware.

Posts: 428
Re: Wife's looking at old turntables
Reply #11 - 03/06/16 at 16:36:17
 
Rraymond- might as well strike while the skillet is hot. I think you are right about the Queen table, but after 35 years of my wonderful bride, if she is saying OK to a nice table roll with it. You won't be disappointed because the world of vinyl and tubes make musical bliss. Keep us posted and when whatever she decides on lands at your house please post a pic. Happy listening, Chris.
Back to top
 
 

Rachael, ZP3, ZMC 1, SE84CS, Oppo BDP-93, Sota Star TT w/ FR-64, Dynavector D17 mkIII Moving coil, Omega 7XRS Mk 2 walnut, DeepOmega 8 sub, Morrow Audio PH3 and MA3 IC's, Stax Lambda Signature Pro & SRM-T1 tube amp, Gamma Electrostatic phones.
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 13310
Re: Wife's looking at old turntables
Reply #12 - 03/06/16 at 19:17:41
 
Yes, the "Queen" seems basically the same as an RP1 to me. I have not heard Music Hall, but they are likely China made; the Rega is UK made. . . . I just love my Rega so I am trying to say that makes a difference, I don't know, the sound is what matters, and the Rega has it for my system.
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZP3,ZTPRE,Torii MkIII,ZBIT,ZROCK2,Taboo MkIV;PS Audio:Soloist SE,DMP+DSD,P10,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs,Mapleshade:Dbl Helix+,SamsonV2+V3;CambrAudi CXU;Rega RP3,TTPSU,Groovetracer upgrades,Exact2;VooDoo Cremona +Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner,Oppo PM-1,Audeze LCD-2
  IP Logged
Archie
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 756
Re: Wife's looking at old turntables
Reply #13 - 03/06/16 at 19:28:49
 
Quote:
might as well strike while the skillet is hot


You're mixing your metaphors.    ;)
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 03/06/16 at 19:32:33 by Archie »  
  IP Logged
darrwood
Senior Member
***




Posts: 62
Re: Wife's looking at old turntables
Reply #14 - 03/06/16 at 23:50:03
 
Music Hall is made in the same factory as project, mine has a project tone arm.   I have a 7.1 and sounds great with my ZP1 and UFO2  Ive never heard a Rega probably sounds nice with a ZP1
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
darrwood
Senior Member
***




Posts: 62
Re: Wife's looking at old turntables
Reply #15 - 03/06/16 at 23:53:47
 
When I think old TT I think of 1950s or 1960s old direct drive or Idler wheel.  I would like one to play 78s
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Rraymond
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 198
Re: Wife's looking at old turntables
Reply #16 - 03/07/16 at 13:18:12
 
Well the wife pulled the trigger on a Rega Queen. I'm pretty sure it's going to come before my Tori Junior and ERRx speakers...  Also had some buddies over and one of them said I'm gonna need a pre-amp for the Rega. I was hoping to go directly into the Tori Jr. We will see.
Back to top
 
 

Audion Silver Night Special Edition 300b integrated, Zu Soul Superfly speakers, Acoustic Solid TT with Denon 103 MC cart, PS Audio NuWave phono, Zu Event MKII speaker cables with BU3 connectors.
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 13310
Re: Wife's looking at old turntables
Reply #17 - 03/07/16 at 14:00:27
 
You will need a phono preamp, you cannot go directly into the Decware amp. Get something cheap. . .and save up for a ZP3.

http://www.sweetwater.com/insync/phono-preamp/
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZP3,ZTPRE,Torii MkIII,ZBIT,ZROCK2,Taboo MkIV;PS Audio:Soloist SE,DMP+DSD,P10,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs,Mapleshade:Dbl Helix+,SamsonV2+V3;CambrAudi CXU;Rega RP3,TTPSU,Groovetracer upgrades,Exact2;VooDoo Cremona +Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner,Oppo PM-1,Audeze LCD-2
  IP Logged
hdrider
Seasoned Member
****


On the path with
Decware.

Posts: 428
Re: Wife's looking at old turntables
Reply #18 - 03/07/16 at 14:05:00
 
I second Lon's comment. Get something cheap and save for a ZP3. I will never part with our ZP3, it is an amazing phonostage. Happy listening, Chris.
Back to top
 
 

Rachael, ZP3, ZMC 1, SE84CS, Oppo BDP-93, Sota Star TT w/ FR-64, Dynavector D17 mkIII Moving coil, Omega 7XRS Mk 2 walnut, DeepOmega 8 sub, Morrow Audio PH3 and MA3 IC's, Stax Lambda Signature Pro & SRM-T1 tube amp, Gamma Electrostatic phones.
  IP Logged
Rraymond
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 198
Re: Wife's looking at old turntables
Reply #19 - 03/08/16 at 00:26:26
 
Yeah she bought a $49 phono preamp made by ART. The reviews seem quite good so we will see. So, now I guess I need to convince her about the ZP3. Is it really going to make a huge difference? I'm realizing this hobbie has no end...lol
Rick
Back to top
 
 

Audion Silver Night Special Edition 300b integrated, Zu Soul Superfly speakers, Acoustic Solid TT with Denon 103 MC cart, PS Audio NuWave phono, Zu Event MKII speaker cables with BU3 connectors.
  IP Logged
darrwood
Senior Member
***




Posts: 62
Re: Wife's looking at old turntables
Reply #20 - 03/08/16 at 04:39:45
 
the Zp3 makes all the difference I have a music hall 7.1 a Zp3 and a ufo2 they play nicely together with decware shielded interconnects they make a difference. I bought them one at a time to se what difference each step made and to stay wirh a budget, took 3 years.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
hdrider
Seasoned Member
****


On the path with
Decware.

Posts: 428
Re: Wife's looking at old turntables
Reply #21 - 03/08/16 at 12:01:08
 
It does have an end (sort of if you don't count tubes) I will never change out my Rachael amp, ZP3, Omega 7XRS & Sub, Sota TT. I will add a new cartridge this year and maybe replace the DAC I sold. But we are HAPPY and CONTENT every time we turn on the system for music or movies. Happy listening, Chris.
Back to top
 
 

Rachael, ZP3, ZMC 1, SE84CS, Oppo BDP-93, Sota Star TT w/ FR-64, Dynavector D17 mkIII Moving coil, Omega 7XRS Mk 2 walnut, DeepOmega 8 sub, Morrow Audio PH3 and MA3 IC's, Stax Lambda Signature Pro & SRM-T1 tube amp, Gamma Electrostatic phones.
  IP Logged
Rraymond
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 198
Re: Wife's looking at old turntables
Reply #22 - 03/09/16 at 19:45:19
 
The Rega Queen showed up today and even though I don't have my amp or speakers yet, I was excited to plug it in and turn it on just to see it spin a record. I didn't know that you could actually hear the music from the cartridge(although it sound like a mouse singing) but I also noticed a noise from the motor. It's a small thumping/clicking sound about 4 bumps/second. Is this the normal sound of the motor or should it be pretty quiet?  I'm sure if I had it connected to a system I wouldn't even be able to hear this noise but I'm concerned that it may be an issue which may turn into a failure down the road.  :-?
Rick
Back to top
 
 

Audion Silver Night Special Edition 300b integrated, Zu Soul Superfly speakers, Acoustic Solid TT with Denon 103 MC cart, PS Audio NuWave phono, Zu Event MKII speaker cables with BU3 connectors.
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 13310
Re: Wife's looking at old turntables
Reply #23 - 03/09/16 at 21:55:49
 
I wouldn't worry myself. Hopefully you will have a phono preamp and speakers on hand and can begin enjoying records!
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZP3,ZTPRE,Torii MkIII,ZBIT,ZROCK2,Taboo MkIV;PS Audio:Soloist SE,DMP+DSD,P10,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs,Mapleshade:Dbl Helix+,SamsonV2+V3;CambrAudi CXU;Rega RP3,TTPSU,Groovetracer upgrades,Exact2;VooDoo Cremona +Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner,Oppo PM-1,Audeze LCD-2
  IP Logged
Rraymond
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 198
Re: Wife's looking at old turntables
Reply #24 - 03/10/16 at 13:08:03
 
We contacted the dealer and they said it's not normal so they will be issuing an RMA for the return and will send a replacement.
Rick
Back to top
 
 

Audion Silver Night Special Edition 300b integrated, Zu Soul Superfly speakers, Acoustic Solid TT with Denon 103 MC cart, PS Audio NuWave phono, Zu Event MKII speaker cables with BU3 connectors.
  IP Logged
Crazy Bill the Eel Killer
Seasoned Member
****


Tubes Rule !!

Posts: 141
Re: Wife's looking at old turntables
Reply #25 - 03/14/16 at 17:54:25
 
Hello Raymond,
finally got around to responding, and then noticed you got a new table.
Good luck with it.

I'll post it in the classifieds in case anyone is interested.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
jorgen
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 200
Re: Wife's looking at old turntables
Reply #26 - 03/14/16 at 21:33:10
 
I'm pretty much at the same plateau you are when it comes to audio. I had my Decware amp and Omega speakers fed by a DAC until July last year. Bought a cheapo Project phono stage to go with a cool vintage Thorens 160 with a Mission 774 arm. Planning to  upgrade the TT, there are lots easy DIY options for this TT. Now I have a good MM cartridge (2m black) and last week ordered a ZP3, which will be only and last proper RIAA. In the waiting time I will do the DIY on the TT, rewire the tonearm and buy more records. I really prefer the classic looking TT over much of today's models and I'm pretty sure if you buy a new one today it will not last 40 years.
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 03/14/16 at 21:34:44 by jorgen »  
  IP Logged
Rraymond
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 198
Re: Wife's looking at old turntables
Reply #27 - 03/17/16 at 15:13:36
 
Went to a local HiFi store yesterday and listened to an RP1 vs an RP3. Well, originally the wifey wanted to stay under $500 and was looking all over the map both newer and vintage. The difference I heard in the sound of the RP3 has me convinced to spend the extra money. Talked to the wife and she was looking to bid on a used Planar 25 that someone sawed off the lifter from the tone arm. I said to her, I don't know for sure because it's been such a very long time playing any LP's but I'm thinking it may be difficult to position the tone arm without that and besides this thing was coming from Peuorto Rico. I said unless we buy something used from a reputable person or place, who knows what we will end up with. Well, needless to say, today I'm heading back to the HiFi store to purchase the RP3!  I told the guy at the store I bought a cheap $49 phono pre and he said it likely won't sound good and was suggesting I pick up one of his Rega pre's at $179 or $399. I told him I was going to save for the ZP3 tube phono stage. He said tube stuff is usually inherently noisy. I said, well you must not know about Decware...lol
Back to top
 
 

Audion Silver Night Special Edition 300b integrated, Zu Soul Superfly speakers, Acoustic Solid TT with Denon 103 MC cart, PS Audio NuWave phono, Zu Event MKII speaker cables with BU3 connectors.
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 13310
Re: Wife's looking at old turntables
Reply #28 - 03/17/16 at 15:28:11
 
Good move! You can slowly upgrade that RP3, it'll sound great right off the bat but you can improve it steadily. And saving up for the ZP3 is the way to go. HIFI stores just don't know about Decware quality.
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZP3,ZTPRE,Torii MkIII,ZBIT,ZROCK2,Taboo MkIV;PS Audio:Soloist SE,DMP+DSD,P10,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs,Mapleshade:Dbl Helix+,SamsonV2+V3;CambrAudi CXU;Rega RP3,TTPSU,Groovetracer upgrades,Exact2;VooDoo Cremona +Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner,Oppo PM-1,Audeze LCD-2
  IP Logged
Rraymond
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 198
Re: Wife's looking at old turntables
Reply #29 - 03/17/16 at 21:39:45
 
Well Lon since I value your opinion, I just pulled the trigger on the ZP3!  Upgraded it with beeswax caps too. I figured I'll be able to save for it since there's about a 10 week wait. My ERRx speakers will be here Friday, Tori Jr should be next week. I'm getting excited!!!
Back to top
 
 

Audion Silver Night Special Edition 300b integrated, Zu Soul Superfly speakers, Acoustic Solid TT with Denon 103 MC cart, PS Audio NuWave phono, Zu Event MKII speaker cables with BU3 connectors.
  IP Logged
Archie
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 756
Re: Wife's looking at old turntables
Reply #30 - 03/18/16 at 00:09:53
 
Oooo, you're in trouble now!  Next will be an MC cart and a ZMC1.  :D
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 13310
Re: Wife's looking at old turntables
Reply #31 - 03/18/16 at 02:21:28
 
Oh boy, you're going to have a whole system of sonic wonder soon! Congrats!
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZP3,ZTPRE,Torii MkIII,ZBIT,ZROCK2,Taboo MkIV;PS Audio:Soloist SE,DMP+DSD,P10,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs,Mapleshade:Dbl Helix+,SamsonV2+V3;CambrAudi CXU;Rega RP3,TTPSU,Groovetracer upgrades,Exact2;VooDoo Cremona +Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner,Oppo PM-1,Audeze LCD-2
  IP Logged
Syd
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 1397
Re: Wife's looking at old turntables
Reply #32 - 03/18/16 at 12:27:31
 
Amazing ! It`s like well oiled cogs meshing together.
Back to top
 
 

Decware: Rachaels x 2 bridged, C. SP2+, ZP3, ZMC1, DSC i/c`s, DHC-1 pw/cbl`s Michell Orbe + SME V + M.Benz LP s , Nakamichi LX5, Lowther acoustas DX2`s, WE 16g sp/cbl`s, Isotek mains sub
  IP Logged
hdrider
Seasoned Member
****


On the path with
Decware.

Posts: 428
Re: Wife's looking at old turntables
Reply #33 - 03/18/16 at 19:08:48
 
Rraymond - good move on the ZP3! You will be going through a lot of experiences as your new gear breaks in and settles down. Just keep listening and don't make any rash decisions as things settle down. I kind of got all wrapped up in the break in thing when I got the amp and phono and finally caught myself and just said PLAY DA MUSIC. And now that closet of gear makes music magic daily. In fact I'm thinking about tonight's playlist instead of really working. bye, Chris
Back to top
 
 

Rachael, ZP3, ZMC 1, SE84CS, Oppo BDP-93, Sota Star TT w/ FR-64, Dynavector D17 mkIII Moving coil, Omega 7XRS Mk 2 walnut, DeepOmega 8 sub, Morrow Audio PH3 and MA3 IC's, Stax Lambda Signature Pro & SRM-T1 tube amp, Gamma Electrostatic phones.
  IP Logged
Pages: 1
Send Topic Print