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Palomino Audio Project (Read 43154 times)
Palomino
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #50 - 02/09/16 at 15:38:18
 
Thanks all.  I have a few homework assignments.
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DBC
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #51 - 02/09/16 at 15:54:21
 
I mentioned earlier that on my Decware SE84CS+ that there is no continuity between the negative speaker posts and the amp chassis (Earth Ground). I think this would be considered a Floating Ground.

When you attach interconnects between components the RCA jackets on both ends are typically connected to Earth Ground (RCA jackets are common to the amp chassis & earth ground). So the negative interconnect lead serves as a ground wire between the two componets helping in most cases to minimize potential for ground loop buzz.

Since you are connecting your Decware speaker level outputs to the Crown RCA inputs there may be a problem if your negative speaker outputs are Floating separate from Earth Ground. Decware Floating Ground connected to Crown Earth Ground. This could cause a voltage potential between the two amp chassis resulting in the buzz.

Attaching a test lead between the Decware chassis and Crown chassis may or may not help.

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Palomino
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #52 - 02/09/16 at 15:58:15
 
If what you say is true, then Core32's suggestion of the 50 ohm resistor could help??
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Core32
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #53 - 02/09/16 at 16:19:18
 
It may attenuate the buzz.
It's really about what the connection design inside the Crown input looks like. Kind of a black box at this point and the 50 ohm might help.
My guess is the converter your trying that is quieter but lacking has some isolation circuit that is attenuating or filtering in a way your ears can hear.
Maybe a high-pass filter.
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Palomino
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #54 - 02/09/16 at 16:22:11
 
I can give the 50 ohm a try.

Also attaching the test lead between the two amp chassis might help.  Attaching to the Crown is easy.  Not sure where to attach to the Torii??
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Core32
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #55 - 02/09/16 at 16:31:22
 
Are you trying to measure with the meter or make a common ground connection?

Edit: Just a terminology brain fart on my part. Smiley
If you know where the Torii chassis ground screw is, that would be the place.
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« Last Edit: 02/09/16 at 16:33:30 by Core32 »  
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DBC
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #56 - 02/09/16 at 18:04:14
 
Quote:
Pal wrote:

I can give the 50 ohm a try.

Also attaching the test lead between the two amp chassis might help.  Attaching to the Crown is easy.  Not sure where to attach to the Torii??




Center rear of amp is the power receptical. Center receptical prong is the Earth Ground. Ohm meter should test 0 resistance between power receptical Earth Ground prong and: RCA outer jackets, Top plate, Top plate screws & probably toggle switches. So a lead between the two amp chassis can be attached anywhere on the chassis that is common with the power receptical Earth Ground prong on each amp.

Check for continuity from power receptical Earth Ground prong to negative speaker post. If there is no continuity then speaker negative is floating separately from the AC power receptical Earth Ground.

Best to have speaker wires and interconnects removed when testing for the above.
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« Last Edit: 02/09/16 at 18:06:50 by DBC »  

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Palomino
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #57 - 02/09/16 at 19:11:07
 
Thanks.  I talked to Steve and he said it is floating ground on the Torii III.  I also found Ed's specific comment that the magic cable is designed to work with amps with a common ground only.

Steve said to see if attaching a wire to the Crown Chassis and touching a screw on a Torii transformer has an impact.  

I was in a hurry (people knocking on my office door) but I think he said a longer term solution if this works would be to attach a wire to an RCA outer jack (which is connected to the ground) to the Crown chassis via a wire.

If that doesn't pan out, then look into resistors.  He thought the el cheapo employed a resistor (like a 10K ohm) and that's why no buzz with it.
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Core32
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #58 - 02/09/16 at 19:20:19
 
If it works you could also just use a single RCA cable and connect an unused RCA INPUT on the Crown to an unused RCA INPUT on the Torii if they are available.
No harm in connecting two INPUTS together between amps.
This would have the same effect (but neater) as the wire between amp grounds.
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« Last Edit: 02/09/16 at 19:21:11 by Core32 »  
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Palomino
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #59 - 02/09/16 at 19:23:40
 
Thanks

I have an unused RCA input on the Torii, but the Crown just has one set which I am already using with the magic cables.
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Core32
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #60 - 02/09/16 at 19:29:02
 
If there is an RCA output on the Crown it could still be connected to the RCA INPUT on the Torii, as long as it's some standard signal out.
Just a thought.
Obviously no OUTPUT-to-OUTPUT connections are recommended....   Smiley
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Palomino
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #61 - 02/10/16 at 12:02:10
 
I did some of my homework. Crown RCA to chassis =0.  Connecting Crown chassis to Torii = no help.

Other findings:

It's definitely between the Torri and the crown.  I shut off and or disconnected everything and no effect except when I shut off the lpsu for the DAC.  That changed the tone and possibly the intensity of the buzz.  I have two other lpsu and shutting those off had no impact.

I also popped Rachael back in and the volume of the buzz dropped by at least half.  

Rachael was also a shout test.  With no treble shunt I wanted to see how it sounded.  I have to bump the crossover up to 250hz (from 50hz on the Torii) to get a similar level of weight in the music.  But once settled in I did not detect a high degree of shout.  Maybe I need to listen longer.

So I think another strength in this design is using the crown crossover could allow for better amp matching with the speakers.

Also the plan is for Rob to stop over on Friday to give these a listen and provide impressions.  He may bring his zen UFO.
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Core32
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #62 - 02/10/16 at 12:47:44
 
So the Crown inputs are grounded (=0) and the Torii speaker outputs are floating.
Definitely a ground loop situation feeding back to the speaker.
Can you lift the ground connections ONLY of the magic cables going back to the speaker (-) ?
So the series resistor part of the magic cable is the only connection between Crown and speaker?
Start with the volume low, just in case removing the ground reference causes the buzz to be louder in stead of quieter.
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Palomino
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #63 - 02/10/16 at 15:32:32
 
Not sure I understand.  Where does the crown get the music signal from?

Right now:  Torii L/R speaker terminals --> magic cable L/R (with resistor) --> Crown RCA input --> Crown speaker output --> Augie woofer.
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Core32
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #64 - 02/10/16 at 15:45:38
 
You leave the signal path intact. Just remove the ground wire from the magic cable.
The magic cable consists of two wires. One that has the series resistor in it (signal) and the other just goes from the outer connection to the speaker (-).
You remove the outer connection only.
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« Last Edit: 02/10/16 at 15:46:15 by Core32 »  
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Palomino
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #65 - 02/10/16 at 15:47:36
 
OK, I'll be cautious, but give it a try.  I am also going to pick up a couple 10K resistors to try on the negative as well.
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Core32
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #66 - 02/10/16 at 15:51:42
 
Leaving the ground wire off is like adding a really REALLY large value resistor......    ;)
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Palomino
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #67 - 02/10/16 at 16:29:45
 
Hey anybody got any suggestions for connecting the Tang Band W8 speaker wires?

Not sure of the sizes, but there are two different size tabs for + and - like most drivers.

In previous builds, I just put in terminals and soldered a wire between them and the driver tabs.  I'd rather not do that with these open baffles since they are, well, open and I don't need to add the extra connection.

Right now I am going direct to the tabs with 16g Western Electric wire.  The wire doesn't fit the hole in the tab, so a portion of it is jammed up into the tab and then wrapped around to meet the other part that won't fit through the hole.

I don't want to solder them because I do switch out speakers and I don't want to use the traditional quick disconnect tabs because they are such low quality.

I have looked around ebay, parts express, etc. and don't see anything of much higher quality.  Some gold plated brass quick disconnects which probably aren't bad, but the tab size seems pretty wide and I'm not sure it will have enough friction to hold the smaller tab.

Anyway any other thoughts short of putting some speaker terminals on the OBs?
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DBC
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #68 - 02/10/16 at 21:30:14
 
Pal,

Have you tried searching on amazon for "Female Spade", they have quite a few options. Available widths include: 6.3 mm = 0.25", 4.8 mm = 0.20", 2.8 mm = 0.11" I could only find 6.3 mm at Parts Express which seems strange?

The tabs on my Alpha 15A are 4.8 mm. I use the non-insulated Female Spade with shrink wrap and they look nice.

http://www.amazon.com/100Pcs-Pluggable-Terminals-Female-Connector/dp/B016WZM3S8/...
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« Last Edit: 02/10/16 at 21:32:01 by DBC »  

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Palomino
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #69 - 02/11/16 at 01:58:07
 
Thanks DBC.  Those are copper which I can live with.

Core, guess who's system is producing music with no buzz whatsoever?
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #70 - 02/11/16 at 02:07:32
 
So how did you cure the BUZZ ???
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Palomino
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #71 - 02/11/16 at 02:24:25
 
Core suggested I disconnect the negative wire on the magic cable.  I did and slowly turned up the volume with no music playing and it was dead silent.  Then I played some music and sure enough the augies were doing their thing.

So on floating ground amps, you only need the positive wire with the resistor soldered to the center pin on the RCA.  No negative wire needed.  
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DBC
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #72 - 02/11/16 at 02:38:39
 
Makes some sense. Mixing Floating Ground of Decware and Earth Ground of Crown and the two together are not happy. Great News.

Solving Grounding issues are often a lot of trial and error.
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« Last Edit: 02/11/16 at 02:41:14 by DBC »  

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Palomino
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #73 - 02/11/16 at 14:09:10
 
I have to correct myself.  This morning with the house quiet and with my ear about a foot from the W8 the same buzz was still detectable.  I had said dead quiet and it's not.  It's low enough though that I would place it in the tube swish or quieter category.  

I am going to remove the negative wire from the magic cables in case those are picking up the noise, but otherwise, I think I am satisfied the buzz has been dealt with.

Funny thing happened while I was obsessing over the buzz this past week.  The W8's broke in more and now sound significantly better.

I have controlled my glowing comments mostly to the Augies and the bass they produce, but now I am getting more of the full package and promise of this setup.

Better how?  More of a 3D space around the instruments and they are weaving a better contextual soundscape.  I used to be drawn to the bass line because it was so musical, now the rest of the composition can't be ignored.  I think I may finally be reaping the benefits of the single driver phenomenon in terms of coherency.

The timing is good with Rob stopping over to give them a listen.  He has a much better ear and vocabulary for describing what he hears.  Rob is an OB owner/fan so I think he can give me some perspective on mine, but also I think he can give me an idea of where these are among speakers, regardless of format.

Rob, if you are reading this, I listened to that rocking Buckethead song this morning - the one that I think sold you on the UFO upgrade.  My toes were tapping and I was doing the Beavis and Butthead head bob, that's for sure.  That song has been added to the demo list.

Oh, and bring the Zen.  I know we don't have a lot of time, but I'd like to pop it in to see how the UFOs sound in this rig.



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Core32
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #74 - 02/12/16 at 12:13:55
 
Glad to hear it Pal.
With the Torii's floating outputs and removing the magic cable ground connection to the Crown, the "return path" is now through the common earth ground of both amps power supplies. (The AC power cable ground.)
That is still not ideal but what it has done is removed the majority of the ground loop and thus the buzz.
I do not think there is a passive way to reduce it further and any "active" way may just color the sound to the Crown.
Maybe make sure the Torii and Crown are powered from the exact same AC circuit.
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Palomino
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #75 - 02/12/16 at 12:30:35
 
Well, here is another piece of the puzzle.

I couldn't figure out how I missed the remaining buzz.  I'm not that deaf.

So I was listening this morning and messing around with stuff, switching between songs and I actually heard it from the listening position. What? How can this be intermittent?   So I changed songs and when my DAC recognized a new song resolution, it actually changed tone.  I stopped audirvana and it stopped altogether.  

Then I remembered the reduction in buzz when I turned off the linear power supply for the DAC.  

So now I am thinking of grounding the DAC (it has a grounding post like a turntable) and/or moving it.

What should I try grounding it too?
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Core32
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #76 - 02/12/16 at 13:00:10
 
Did you say you had an AC line isolation transformer or similar that your Torii and Crown are being powered from?
If so if that has a ground lug I would do it there.
Proper grounding is such a pain in the ass for critical audio listening.
Adding a ground is just as likely to exacerbate the problem as fix it....
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Palomino
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #77 - 02/12/16 at 13:45:36
 
Yeah it's a pain.  I have t confronted this much before.

I have a ps audio power plant premiere.

The DAC has an external power supply which is plugged into the power plant.  The power chord going from the power supply to the DAC is a simple barrel connector.

When I unplug the RCAs from the DAC it goes quiet again.  
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Core32
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #78 - 02/12/16 at 13:50:12
 
The DACs external power supply, what type connection does it have to the power plant?
If it is just two prong or just a wall wart/brick that could again be a source of ground loop.
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Palomino
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #79 - 02/12/16 at 14:48:37
 
It has a good grounded inlet / power cord.
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #80 - 02/13/16 at 14:44:20
 
Rob stopped over yesterday afternoon for a mini CDApS.  We only had an hour.  We demo’d the OBs on the Torii using some of my music and some that he brought.  Then we played with the crossover point and finally, we put the Zen UFO in to see how it did.

I hope Rob will get some time to weigh in with his thoughts.  He was impressed with the speed and transparency of the Tang Bands.  He also commented that the highs were good.   He thought the bottom end was good, but felt that the Crown did not better his dual Rythmik plate amps he runs the 4 Augies in his Trios with.

We threw some pretty heavy stuff (at least heavy for me) at the OBs and all but a couple of songs, I think the Tang Bands held up and produced enjoyable music.  One song we couldn’t finish was an Alabama Shakes song.  I may give that one another try under a different gain mix as it’s a pretty hot recording.  

I think these speakers are widening my musical horizons.  Not sure I am going to become a metal head, but I dig some of the progressive rock Rob has on his playlist and even some of his metal.  I think one of Rob’s parting comments was that these speakers were very good for the kind of music I listen to.  Lots of jazz and lighter rock with some alternative rock tossed in.  He preferred the meat of the larger 15” coax driver in his Trios for more of the music he listens to.

We experimented with the crossover and both felt that the higher crossover of around 105Hz sounded better with the Torii.  I had it set at around 50hz when we started.  I punched it up to 250hz and we both agreed it sounded horrible.  I may still try high passing the Tang Bands at 250hz (like Pure Audio) rather than low passing the Augies at 250hz.

We tossed in the Zen but unfortunately, we did not get the quality of results we got with the Torii.  We did adjust the crossover up to try to give it more weight, but still the results were not as satisfying.  I got similar results with Rachael, but hoped that maybe the UFOs would come to the rescue.  Overall, my conclusion is that the Tang Bands need more juice.

Eric is next up.  We've just had difficulty connecting with our schedules lately.

After Rob left, my son came home from college.  We ate some Chinese food and had a couple glasses of wine.  I always ask him to listen to my system when he comes home and he kind of grudgingly does so.  So the agreement was he would listen to one song.  

He likes that Daft Punk Random Access Memories album so I put on a track.  Head started bobbing, foot tapping.  So we listened to another, then another and after about 30 minutes he said, “can we hook up my Macbook?”  

We listened to all kinds of stuff and had a little bonding time. We played hip hop, progressive, electronic, alternative etc.  A couple hours later, his Macbook ran out of juice so only then, we quit.  My point being that I believe these speakers to be engaging across a wide variety of music.  

BTW, it was interesting what a hit the performance took when we switched to his Macbook.  Rather than download the USB drivers, we just ran optical.   I felt pretty good about the investment in the upgrades to my Mac mini.  And for sure felt better about USB vs optical.
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #81 - 02/13/16 at 20:33:14
 
Splendid writeup Pal!  Have been using OB here for a few years now.  Gives us DIY folks a shot at making something that sounds way above it's price point.

I thank our friend Randy for the advise on the AMT Heil's.  They made the music really "pop" for me!

Dennis
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #82 - 02/13/16 at 23:30:48
 
One thing I discovered during my build is that Randy's design is deceptively simple.  The man has experience and that OB design of his is no accident.
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #83 - 02/14/16 at 03:28:23
 
Palo, How did you come up with the width? Is there Some sort of calculation for figuring it out?
I'm kicking around with the idea of an 32" width now. More for symmetry than anything.
My CAD Monkey should have me drawings Monday, I'll share my ideas with you then.
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #84 - 02/14/16 at 13:37:39
 
I just wanted at least 22" because Darrell Hawthorne said his  production baffles are that wide and Randy also suggested the wider you go the better the bass on an OB.

There are guys on that gravity of the dark Star thread that experimented with crazy widths.  

I think my next build will be thinner just to see what I lose in the bass department.   I can't have something this big in a second system.  Back a few years ago pre decware I did some with the piano hinge.  You could fold them when you were not using them.  It was a short term experiment because I could never integrate the bass properly.
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #85 - 02/14/16 at 16:18:31
 
You guys are probably already aware of this, but it appears as if the below monitor is the only finished speaker offered from Hawthorne Audio these days.  The baffle is made of marble/ceramic.  


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« Last Edit: 02/14/16 at 16:19:18 by Dave1210 »  
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Core32
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #86 - 02/14/16 at 16:24:40
 
Bet those don't come with "FREE SHIPPING!!!!"   lol
Maybe a small fork-lift!
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #87 - 02/17/16 at 01:01:40
 
Hey Palomino,

I seem to be having HUGE problems posting, so I'll try the pictures first.

Randy
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HA_Duets.JPG
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #88 - 02/17/16 at 01:06:01
 
My new favorite (and recurring) phrase on the forum: "An Error Has Occurred".

It appears that my admittedly rudimentary computer skills are worse than I had feared.
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #89 - 02/17/16 at 01:27:50
 
OK, now let me try my actual response:

I've been meaning to write to you for a week or more now, since you posted your OB project. Last summer I ran across a local guy who wanted to sell/partial trade his Hawthorne Audio Rainiers - my dream speakers. I had a couple of components that he wanted, so I was able to do a trade plus some $$, and they were mine. Great sound top to bottom w/a big, wide soundstage. Then about a week or so before you posted, I saw an ad on US Audio Mart from a guy wanting to sell his Hawthorne Audio Duets. They had 10" Sterling Silver Iris coaxial mids, w/15" Augies. He included a dbx 234XS active crossover, as he had not had passive XOs made. When they came I set them up using my Cary Audio Six Pacs on the mids, a Crown XLS 1500 sub amp that came as part of the Rainier sale on the Augies, run through the active crossover. I have to say that I was way underwhelmed. Next I switched the Crown out for a Dayton Audio SA1000 that I had, and it got marginally better, but still not what I was looking for. Then I dropped the crossover, and just went full range. YOWZA! Now we're talking. Big, room-filling sound. I'm still messing with placement, but I'm pretty happy with them - especially given what I paid. So I think that we are on parallel tracks, although now I have to think about selling some of my speaker stock, much as I don't want to. Looking like a dang retail store around here.  Some of the ones that I'm thinking of letting go: my Blumenstein Orca single drivers, my Decware Monoliths (I know!), my rosewood VMPS RM30s (in the background of the first pic above) with their killer midrange, and maybe even my beautiful blue Zu Essence MK I Bs. (Well, I'll have to think hard about those - they ROCK!!). Anyway, I'm hoping that my recent OB experiments will qualify me for BOOB status.

Happy eargasms,
Randy
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #90 - 02/17/16 at 19:11:17
 
Quote:
TubeNube wrote:

Then about a week or so before you posted, I saw an ad on US Audio Mart from a guy wanting to sell his Hawthorne Audio Duets. They had 10" Sterling Silver Iris coaxial mids, w/15" Augies. He included a dbx 234XS active crossover, as he had not had passive XOs made. When they came I set them up using my Cary Audio Six Pacs on the mids, a Crown XLS 1500 sub amp that came as part of the Rainier sale on the Augies, run through the active crossover. I have to say that I was way underwhelmed. Next I switched the Crown out for a Dayton Audio SA1000 that I had, and it got marginally better, but still not what I was looking for. Then I dropped the crossover, and just went full range. YOWZA! Now we're talking. Big, room-filling sound. I'm still messing with placement, but I'm pretty happy with them - especially given what I paid.


Similar experience with my 15" Lo Frequency Open Baffles. I run them full range, big open sound. I tried a couple of Eminence passive crossovers and it just sucked the life out of the low end (a night & day difference).
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Main System: Oppo BDP-105D, SE84UFO amp, Omega Super Alnico Monitors, Twin Custom SLAB 15's (Low Frequency Open Baffle).
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #91 - 02/17/16 at 19:22:54
 
I have reviewed your qualifications and have to agree that you do indeed qualify for BoOb status.  Congratulations

BTW, I saw that listing for the Hawthorne stuff.  Great deal.

There was somebody out east selling two Augies for $250 that was pretty tempting as well.
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #92 - 02/18/16 at 01:19:55
 
Thanks for the vote of confidence, Pal.

I already have my next project in mind, if my ship comes in. Or more correctly I should say if I can ever reinflate myself after the squashing that I took when the real estate market tanked. Anyway, if Steve is still making the FRX2 drivers, I'd like to pair those in an open baffle with a Tori Jr straight from a source. No preamp, no ZStage, no ZBit, no nuthin'. I have been finding that I'm happiest with the music when my system is the simplest. (OK, well, I do have my Regen with Curious Cables before and after in my system, so there's that). I'd also like to 3D print the baffle - but not before I do a few mockups in cheapo plywood. Never any shortage of ideas around here (just $$).

Randy
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #93 - 02/18/16 at 01:27:56
 
Funny that 3D printing was brought up. My CAD Monkey was designing some parts to be printed for my OB's today.
If he can draw it, we can print it. PFM, Pure Friggin Magic.
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #94 - 02/18/16 at 01:46:31
 
Hey Randy do you hear benefit of the curious cable before and after the regen?
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #95 - 02/18/16 at 03:02:37
 
Pal,
I do hear a difference, but it's subtle between one or the other vs. both. I would say that I get a little fuller/smoother sound w/both. But as I said, subtle. Although I would not call the difference between my regular USB cable with the solid Uptone Audio connection vs. the two Curious Cables. I'm using my MacBook Pro into either my Wadia 121 dac or my TEAC UD-501 as a source, and with the Curious Cables, it's as close as I've come to the sound that I get with either of my CD players (I have one of Steve's 200i players with the tube output and a Raysonic CD128).

Regarding my previous post, I should also mention that the OB system w/the FRX2 that I'm thinking of will be for near-to-midfield listening, for two reasons: (1) I want to get as close to what I call "unfiltered" music as I can, and (2) I have PLENTY of larger floorstanders without adding another pair.
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #96 - 02/19/16 at 17:52:24
 
Randy…I really like the idea of 3D printing the baffles.  What printing material are you planning to use and will it be anti-resonant?  

I have also been eyeing the FRX2 drivers due to treble frequency response.  I don't have a treble control on my amp to tame the high frequency increase typically present on most single driver systems.

I wonder how the FRX2 would sound in combination with an AMT driver as a super tweeter?

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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #97 - 02/20/16 at 00:41:40
 
Dave,

I really haven't looked into the printing material yet. All I know is what I've seen at a local UPS store that prints small objects - not big enough for what I want. (I'm thinking of a large bookshelf design maybe 14" wide by 16" tall, with the driver up maybe 2/3 of the vertical dimension). They have 3 materials at the store that I've seen: a softer, more porous material; a medium-density material; and then a rigid resin product, which is what I think would be best for a speaker baffle. I need something that will hold a screw, if possible. If not, it will need to be drilled out for an anchor. I'd also like to integrate the base of the baffle with the face during the printing process, with an integrated cradle at the back of the base, which would come up to support the back of the driver. I'm thinking that I would need some sort of rubberized material (like Steve puts between his DM945 and the Companion Cabinet to make his Monoliths) lining the cradle to cut out vibrations between the driver and the cradle. This is all just rolling around in my mind at this point - I haven't set pencil to drafting paper yet. And, as I said, I need to make a couple of different-sized mockups out of wood before settling on a final design, as I think the 3D printing process is still a little spendy, and I'd like to get it right the first time.

As for using the AMT in conjunction with the FRX2, I'm not planning on doing that, as I'm trying to keep my system as simple as possible. I know that overtones can add to the realism of music, but at my age, I'm not sure how much (if any) tones above the 25KHz that the FRX2 puts out are making it through to me. Sad, I know. I wish that I had gotten into this hobby years ago, but I'm enjoying it now, so what the hell.

Anyway, I think that if enough of us express an interest in the FRX2, maybe Steve will be motivated to make another batch. If I'm reading the webpage right, he builds these in blocks of 10. I'm not sure if that means that he waits until he has orders/deposits from 10 buyers before he starts a batch, or...? I guess I wouldn't blame him if that's the case. I need to sell a couple of sets of speakers and an amp or two before I get serious about this project, but when I do, I'll call Steve and get some answers to my questions. I'll post what I find out for others who might be interested.

Randy
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #98 - 02/20/16 at 03:35:39
 
It really matters what kind of 3D printer you have in regards of what kind of material you can use.
Most small "Maker Bots" are just melting what amounts to ABS plastic.
Some of the high end stuff have many different materials from hard plastic to a pliable plastic that feels like rubber.
This week I watched a printer print metal. It was slow and glitchy, but it is the future.
I've seen sand, ceramic, wax, plastic and metal printed.
I'm going to print up logo's for my new OB speakers this week, just because I can.  
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #99 - 02/20/16 at 07:44:01
 
I hear you, Donnie. I need to know a lot more about the machines, the materials, the process before I can do what I want to do. That's why I want to make wooden mockups first, so that I can be enjoying/refining the sound while I do my research. That way, if it takes a while for me to educate myself on the wonders of 3D printing, no big deal. And I've noticed that most of the "consumer grade" printers don't handle objects as large as I need, so I'll have to search out a specialty shop. And I'm guessing that that will be spendy - especially for a one-off. Good thing I won't be in a hurry.
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