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Palomino Audio Project (Read 169519 times)
Showme
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #400 - 12/04/18 at 14:53:14
 
I would like to hear those speakers! What's with the FJ---did you add a snorkel?
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #401 - 12/04/18 at 15:19:05
 
I think they are sounding pretty sweet and continue to play with placement.  I always like to get a CDApS opinion before declaring victory and should have one later this month.
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Jeff of Arabica
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #402 - 12/04/18 at 15:32:56
 
Quote:
I would like to hear those speakers! What's with the FJ---did you add a snorkel?


Looks like a new set of coil over shocks/struts.
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #403 - 12/04/18 at 17:26:07
 
The main problem with that FJ is that it isn't a Jeep!
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #404 - 12/04/18 at 17:32:36
 
Donnie = troublemaker
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Donnie
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #405 - 12/04/18 at 23:16:13
 
I like to think of myself as more of an Freelance Instigator. You want trouble, just call me!
I almost bought a FJ Cruiser on two occasions but I made the mistake of driving a Wrangler and it was all over, then I got older and smarter and starting buying Grand Cherokees.
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #406 - 12/05/18 at 02:02:20
 
Quote:
The main problem with that FJ is that it isn't a Jeep!


Or a Bronco!
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #407 - 12/08/18 at 07:13:40
 
I guess my post got deleted?
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #408 - 12/08/18 at 07:44:22
 
All posts, site-wide, after Dec. 5th are gone!  Apparently some technical issues with the server/hosting.
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #409 - 12/08/18 at 12:13:07
 
Yeah, I wrote a scathing post last night that had to be purged. It caused the entire system to crash.
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #410 - 12/08/18 at 12:41:17
 
ZEN thing...no doubt
Note:
“This is only a Test”
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #411 - 12/08/18 at 19:05:04
 
Wonder what happened!
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #412 - 12/11/18 at 15:32:07
 


I have been following this thread and enjoying the "journey" as the project has progressed  .....

Before creating my "business' website, I had a personal "hobby" website that shared some of my interests, audio projects and favorite music.
I haven't had much time to mess with that website lately, but was looking at it for a few minutes a couple of days ago.

Included on that site was a project that reminded me of this thread.
It was a "three way" open baffle project that sounded pretty good, but was a bit unusual looking.
It seemed reasonable to share it with readers of this thread .....



Larger photo found here.

The website page is here.

Obviously, offering this speaker commercially would have been a pain and I ended up with a much simpler product for the music loving public ..... but it certainly was "interesting" .....

Happy listening,
Randy

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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #413 - 12/11/18 at 16:00:27
 
Thanks for sharing.  Love the name.

As you know Randy, you are my OB-won.  

The only thing I have come up with on my own concerning this latest design is the midrange (kind of a mis-applied full range driver) and the baffle shape.  Everything else is a product of your experimentation over the years.
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #414 - 12/11/18 at 16:11:10
 
Quote:
As you know Randy, you are my OB-won.


Oh no...no no...you didn't just...(sigh)

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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #415 - 12/11/18 at 16:18:50
 
I knew you'd take the bait on that one Wink
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #416 - 12/11/18 at 22:06:16
 


Quote:
Oh no...no no...you didn't just...(sigh)


                                 

 
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #417 - 12/11/18 at 22:14:13
 
How could I resist with "Darth Baffles"
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #418 - 12/11/18 at 22:30:37
 


Quote:
How could I resist with "Darth Baffles"


Yep ..... I kind of liked that name.

Unfortunately, one of my audio buddies insisted on referring to them as the "Banjo Baffles" .....

Everyone's a comedian .....  

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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #419 - 12/11/18 at 23:24:20
 
Bad puns aside. Thanks for your help.

Those Heils are still on sale.  Tempting....
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #420 - 12/12/18 at 14:39:23
 
Quote:
Those Heils are still on sale.  Tempting....


I'm trying not to notice as well...I'm just too damn broke and too many projects going on.

Please stop with the puns, or I'll repost all my FJ photos and Anti-Jeep propaganda in your thread.
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #421 - 12/12/18 at 14:58:28
 
Deal, although  I do have an interest in your FJ adventures every this I watched that FJ history video on YouTube.
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #422 - 12/17/18 at 19:57:18
 
Finally made some sawdust this weekend.  Pulled the 15" Hawthorne drivers out of their baffles, and cut some adapter plates for the Tangbang 1808's ...

Right now I'm using my digital preamp to EQ the 1808s ... cut the treble by 3db and boost bass by 9db.  About 24 hours on them so far.  I'm absolutely STUNNED by the amount of detail I was missing out on with the Hawthornes.  And gobsmacked by how good these 1808's sound with EQ.

I have a pair of the AMTPRO4 tweeters waiting in the wings, I already cut small plates for them as well.  Waiting on crossover components to arrive in a few days.

In the meantime, WOW, I'm enjoying the music.  Thanks everyone for all the info provided in this thread!   Smiley Smiley Smiley
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #423 - 12/17/18 at 20:03:44
 
Nice job on the adapters.  

I have those for the midrange drivers when I swap them out.  But as I said before, the 1808s is where I landed.  I'll continue to look, but I get great detail/richness with the AMT/Tang Band combo.

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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #424 - 12/19/18 at 04:07:45
 

Your speaker, from the meet this weekend.

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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #425 - 12/23/18 at 19:26:13
 
JDaun, outstanding job on those adapters. Speakers look great.
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #426 - 01/09/19 at 18:32:46
 
The project continues....

I have mentioned before my addition of a sub run off a plate amp to fill in below 50hz.  By moving away from the Augies (for now) and going to the basic coil/15As woofer setup (to gain speed), it freed up my crown amps.

So I switched the sub plate amp to the crown crossed at 50hz.  Then I brought in my other 15" sub from the home theater and hooked it up to the other crown.  Both are run in bridged mode.

The subs are built using Dayton audio reference drivers, so they are pretty tight and fairly musical.  I really only want them for below 40Hz, but 50hz is the lowest the crowns go.  On the low end, these do about 25hz so I get some chest vibes.

I'd love to have those huge imperials or whatever Steve has in his room (amazing), but these provide some nice low frequency fill in and don't take up too much space.

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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #427 - 01/09/19 at 19:22:58
 
 What a great looking system (nice pic) and room, I bet it sounds amazing, those speakers with the addition of your subs has to pretty awesome. I’m working on a post right now looking for some discussion and advice, I hope you’ll chime in on it after I get it up, I’m sure you can offer some good thoughts and advice. I like the “Chest Thump” aspect you gotta be getting out of that setup, it has to be really satisfying building a lot of your own equipment that obviously ends up a success.

Best,
Scott
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #428 - 01/09/19 at 19:58:12
 
My whole setup is very much a product of all the advice I have received from forum members.  I've been at it for two years!

Happy to help where I can.
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #429 - 01/09/19 at 21:10:28
 

More than two years if you count all my poking and prodding about diffusers.  :)

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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #430 - 01/11/19 at 20:12:16
 
I went through my absorber phase then el presidente showed me the Tao of diffusion.  I remain an ardent student seeking a higher level of consciousness.

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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #431 - 01/12/19 at 19:29:47
 
Namaste.

More diffuser designs in the works! Check the DIY section!


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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #432 - 01/21/19 at 18:50:46
 
I finally got around to finishing the latest baffles.  Running my diy monoliths.  Sound really good.  Some things I like better that the OBs.

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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #433 - 01/25/19 at 17:52:26
 
Lots to like about these speakers.  The driver combo is a good one and mine does not have the waveguide on the woofer which I think helps the mids.  I can hear things in the upper mids to low highs that I really like.  More real than the OBs.

Also, these speakers actually do a better job of making the walls disappear than the OBs.  I am having trouble believing this so I will double check once the OBs return to the system.

Where the OBs clearly do better is on the low end between 50-250Hz.  I adjusted the crossover point to let the subs go higher (around 100hz xover).  While it helps, I think there is no replacement for the OBs 15" woofers displacement in moving air.
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #434 - 01/25/19 at 18:45:42
 

Maybe it's time we build you some Imperial SO?   Smiley
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #435 - 01/25/19 at 18:53:02
 
oooh oooh oooh.  Me like
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #436 - 01/25/19 at 20:08:08
 
I've got the tools, you just need to buy the plywood.

I've been trying to spend a couple hours here and there setting up the workshop better. So we'll be ready for just about anything.

Speaking of, I'm going to try and (finally) knock out that second 18" woofer box, and finish up the other sound diffuser I made that jig for. I also found some Baltic Birch "on sale" (which isn't really a sale IMHO) so I can finally build my boombox project.
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #437 - 01/25/19 at 20:26:52
 
I had some back and forth with a PE tech.  He suggested another subwoofer driver.  I haven't completed my design but it is shaping up in my head.
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #438 - 01/25/19 at 21:11:25
 
Do you guys think that Imperials would be a step up from my garbage can sub?
If it ever gets above absolute zero around here, and the wind stops wafting out of the north at 65 mph, I need to get busy on multiple projects myself.
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #439 - 01/25/19 at 21:27:42
 
Hard to tell Donnie.  Having owned that same can, I think it has excellent sonic properties, especially given your pillow stuff tactic.
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #440 - 09/30/19 at 14:27:16
 
An update on the project.  

In my OBs I have used Hawthorne Audio Augies with dual Crown Amps, a pair of 15” pulled from some Sony Speakers and Eminence 15As without additional amplification.  All sounded good.  The Augies definitely put out the bass.

But I have long had an interest in Acoustic Elegance woofers because they played low, were efficient and had good reviews.   I finally heard them at Axpona this last Spring in Vinnie Rossi’s prototype speakers and was impressed so I thought I’d like to buy a pair of the LO15s.  In late May, I got a email from John at AE saying he was going to honor the existing price until the end of the month and then increase it $100 per driver so I decided to give them a try.

Well, he had supplier problems and I only just received them recently.  

My initial concern was that they would fit my baffles.  I lucked out and they fit exactly in the cutout I had made a little bigger for the 15As.  I also just used the coil that I had to make the cross over around 250Hz.  

My second concern was that they would play loud enough without needing to use the crowns (which I now use for dual subs).   John (AE owner) had sent me a response chart showing them playing louder over more frequencies than the 15A which is rated at 97db.  Also, they are dual voice coil and I have them wired in parallel, so I think they are around 4ohms impedance.

Anyway, they seem louder than the 15As and certainly seemed to play lower.  John said in an open baffle configuration, they would play around 35hz and roll off after that.

But what these bass drivers do is something I haven’t heard in a bass driver before. They produce such defined, punchy bass that it really enhances the overall musical presentation.  The bass seems to get out of the way and allows the mid and treble to come through with more definition.  You can definitely hear the bass and follow it very closely.  Bass drum and bass guitar are clearly separated better than I have heard in any speakers.

The punch or hit of these drivers is only rivaled by the Lii audio F15 full range driver that Steve has been working with in the Betsy baffle shape.  But being a dedicated bass driver, these go lower.  I swap these speakers in and out to compare them so the next time the Betsy’s are in place should be interesting.

Here is a REW response chart showing a comparison of the two speakers.  The PAP speakers go lower and have more treble but there is a significant cost difference in terms of total driver cost.  And I’m not sure I can hear more treble extension with the PAP tweeters.  Plus the F15 drivers have such musical bass that I don’t know how much I care about the lower extension either.  Initially, I thought the PAP spearkers were less transparent, but perhaps not so with the AE bass drivers.  I’ll have to swap the Big Betsy’s back in to see where I land on that.

Soundstage of the two speakers is completely different.  Big Betsy’s are very much  “they are here” while the PAP OBs are “you are there.”  As such the PAP seem more open.

Hands down, the Big Betsy’s are more efficient and can play louder/fuller with my 25th.  I found myself taking the PAP speakers to clipping when I rarely if ever do that with the Big Betsy’s.

So I find myself with two sets of OBs that I like a lot.  One in the $2K driver/materials range and the other at $650.  I’m not sure where I will go from here, but I am interested in hearing the Lii Audio Crystal 10s at the fest.  I would likely have to use the Crowns to play the AE LO15s due to efficiency differences but I think a combination of those two drivers in an OB might be killer.

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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #441 - 10/02/19 at 15:58:26
 
I posted about this in the Big Betsy thread as well, but when I put the Big Betsy's back in, it was readily apparent that they have more punch in the 100-200hz range.  

The AE have better definition overall and as I said, go lower.  That 100-200Hz punch is rather addicting though, I must say.

Forcing me to choose between the two, I would probably go with the Big Betsys due to their simplicity, and them being better all around speakers that pair really really well with the 25th.  

I will probably be an audio glutton and keep both and possibly experiment with the Crystal 10s / AE combo if I their sound at Decfest.

I saw in another thread that Randy added a 12" Eminence to his Betsy Baffles and likes the sound so maybe I could do something similar.
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #442 - 10/02/19 at 18:12:38
 
Hey Pal,

I started out using supplemental bass with the Crystal's, but finally decided that I liked them by themselves. I don't think they need any help in the bass department.  But, you have gotten used to the Big Betsy thump, so your needs are prolly different than mine Huh  The cool thing is that you get the hear the different variations at Decfest.
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #443 - 10/02/19 at 18:16:23
 
Not sure I would want to give up the Big Betsy hit.  Originally I thought the Big Betsy and AE were pretty close, but after putting the Big Betsy's back in I realized it wasn't nearly as close.

Yeah, the listening room could be very crowded this year.  I am thinking Steve will not put all the speakers in there this year - leaving room for all the new ones.
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #444 - 10/03/19 at 02:48:35
 

I have figured out how to put all the speakers in there, and I mean all of them.  Just some hi-tech zen bass trapping using the Imperial SO makes it all possible without a hitch.  Using the corner horns for bass traps as well, like we have for the past 4 years.  Everything sounds great!

Steve
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #445 - 10/09/19 at 12:03:17
 
So I was thinking of trying Crystal 10s with a helper woofer in an OB setup.  How do I calculate the size of the inductor I need to low pass at various frequencies?

Also do you high pass your Tang Band 1808 and if so how are you high passing it?  I would consider trying the Crystal 10s both with no crossover (preferred) and with a simple high pass circuit just to hear the differences.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks,
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #446 - 10/09/19 at 12:21:25
 
Randy recommended a simple online crossover calculator tool.  I thought I had saved it in my favorites, but I don't see it there.  Google it and I think you'll find a number of them online.  The one I used might have been on the Vcap site.

Depending on bass driver, I have them playing from ~50Hz to 250Hz.  The Tang Band covers 250-1600Hz and the tweeter 1600 and up.

I also have a digital Xover in the crown amp for the subs which I vary depending on the bass driver.  Generally between 50 and 100Hz.

I am going to experiment with the Crystal 10s and anticipate running them wide open, figuring out where they dip in my baffles and then crossing the Acoustic Elegance in that range using the digital Xover in the crown amp.


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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #447 - 10/10/19 at 03:51:17
 
HDDR1 asked:  " How do I calculate the size of the inductor I need to low pass at various frequencies?"

Hello HDDR1, Is this what you need?
http://www.apicsllc.com/apics/Misc/filter1.html

Brian
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #448 - 10/10/19 at 04:01:04
 
Yes thank you both of you.
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Re: Palomino Audio Project
Reply #449 - 10/10/19 at 15:15:13
 


The one I use can be found here.

Happy listening,
Randy

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