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Ediswan 6922 (Read 47712 times)
Dave1210
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Ediswan 6922
01/17/16 at 15:31:32
 
I was just about to order another pair from Upscale and they are no longer available…bummer!
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stone_of_tone
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #1 - 01/17/16 at 22:26:46
 
I wonder if Kevin pulled them because they were canabalizing other 6922's?

Or, he did run out (except for private stock of his own).

One hell of a tube .... I'm running a cryogenic pair and reg pair of them right now. If I can't get any more my ZMA WILL be for sale.

I will stick with my front end and Headphones.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #2 - 01/18/16 at 15:53:59
 
damn really?

i like those too.  currently run ediswan or ampres 7308 in the input of my csp3.  like them both a bunch.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #3 - 01/18/16 at 18:30:58
 
I hear you trip. Major damn?!
(No way I'm selling my ZMA).

I'm shelving my Cryo pair Edi's, that only have 100 hours on them. Keep the 700 hour pair in my ZMA Inputs.

I figure if they truly hang for 4500 hours....what? .....3 to 4 years on one pair then the other... .

Ordering some NOS Platinum ampres 7308 too....before they go the way of the Dodo bird.  

I also have some Cryoset 6N23N-EB's....that I enjoy very much in my ZMA Inputs.....they have also gone the way of the Dodo bird!
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #4 - 01/18/16 at 18:41:52
 
Oh, don't confuse the 6N23P's that came with the ZMA....with 6N23N-EB's Cryogenic from Cryoset....totally different internal structure to the Tube....glad I snapped them up ASAP in Feb of  2014.

Wonderful ~ wonderful tube....almost like the Ediswan's, sitting on the inside texture of the hollow body guitar... . But, the Edi's got the special ~ special in the low end ....so well defined....freakin' mind blowing.... .
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« Last Edit: 01/18/16 at 18:46:21 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #5 - 01/18/16 at 19:11:31
 
So, I'm covered for 12-16 years.....timed out for the Methane release from the Polar Ice Cap melt!  Smoke um' if you got um' ....game over.
Shocked Shocked Shocked
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #6 - 01/18/16 at 20:10:24
 
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #7 - 01/18/16 at 20:58:37
 
Yup, those are the ones/6N23P's, Steve sent out with the ZMA (not Cryogenic).

The matched Cryogenic Quad I bought (from Cryoset) for $100. ($25 each)....were the 6N23N-EB's. (....now would go for 35 to $50 each).

Different inards too/I like the EB's better. Maybe it's just the Cryo....but they surpass the EV's.
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« Last Edit: 01/18/16 at 21:03:16 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #8 - 01/18/16 at 21:19:03
 
Hold the presses!

I have the 6H23N-EB's (matched Quad).
Once again, not to be confused with the 6N23P-EV. Totally differerent inards.....I own both types...and the EB's sound WAY WAY better. I USE THE EV's for "bitch" duty....Phase Inverter's.

I bought from Cryoset Feb 2014.

You can still get them if you call Kevin by calling. BUT AS HE WRITES: "THEY ARE ALMOST GONE FOREVER".
http://www.upscaleaudio.com/6h23-6922-type-3/


NOT, by any means/are the EB's....Ediswan's (NOS Platinum/brand new)...but a damn good tube.....thus, you must call Kevin to get any of them now....what he has left.
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« Last Edit: 01/18/16 at 21:23:24 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #9 - 01/21/16 at 16:02:37
 
.....besides my thoughts in my first post, Kevin, might have pulled the Edi's for sale/with diminishing quantities....and one would have to call/qualify and inquire for a Pair.

Anyway, glad I have 2 Pair. ....getting some Bell 6922's!

NOS Rules!
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« Last Edit: 01/21/16 at 16:03:01 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #10 - 01/21/16 at 18:35:01
 
Stone, if those Bel's are anything like my Ameprex Holland made white label 6922s...you should love them.  Never heard the Bel's but have read the Holland made are better but maybe not worth the extra cash. Let us know how they compare to the Edwisans.  Mark.
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« Last Edit: 01/21/16 at 18:35:43 by mark58 »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #11 - 01/22/16 at 04:51:11
 
Will do. The extended highs have me intrigued. I trust the reviews on the BELS too. Real Philips SQ.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #12 - 01/26/16 at 15:15:48
 
Right now, I'm running Cryogenic Ediswan 6922's (pair) out of my CSP3, in to a pair of Cryoset 6H23N-EB's....for Inputs of ZMA. Absolutely stunning.



Bringing in a Pair of these guys too.

http://www.upscaleaudio.com/mullard-e188cc-7308/



NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 /Inputs = ZMA are breathtaking.............. .

*Also: Cryoset 6H23N-EB's, rotated in and out of Inputs/ZMA*
(Way different internal guts/halo/getter...they are NOT 6N23P-EV's)

NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Input Tube/CSP3 ~ not taken for granted neither......... .

NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 /PRE Outputs of CSP3, running  into ZMA Inputs with Ediswan's = revelatory!
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« Last Edit: 01/26/16 at 15:19:17 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #13 - 01/28/16 at 21:13:00
 

Are these anything like the Eds you were talkinga bout?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1Pc-CV5358-6922-ECC88-EDISWAN-Audio-Tube-/201031165576

I didn't pick any up because I was super broke, and I'm kinda regretting it now. I've really worn out all my tubes, and some of my NOS went microphonic on me. Those Nationals I got where Meh at best.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #14 - 01/28/16 at 21:26:25
 
Yeah, I sold my National's.

Those Edi's in Mumbai, look like the same guts/getter/halo to halo. However, it's a risky proposition. Maybe not, Ediswan's CV2492/6922.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #15 - 02/22/16 at 17:26:50
 
I picked up a set of cryo'd 6H23N-EB's of inputs on the Torii.  Still early, but after about 20 hours, they are very nice.  Smooth, big soundstage.

Still to come (if they ever get here): Reflector 6n23ps - 1974, single wire getter, silver shield.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #16 - 02/22/16 at 17:38:33
 
Yes, I used to use these as inputs on the Torii and they're rather nice. I moved to 7308s however and I'm just addicted to those (Amperex brand) in the Torii. Recently I tried some of the cryo'd 6N23 in the CSP2+ and they're nice. . . but I missed the 7308s in use there too (I use an RCA ion the front and an unbranded NOS pair in the driver positions).

I find the cryo take a bit to break in and improve subtly as they break in.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #17 - 02/23/16 at 16:25:35
 
Has anyone tried the Telefunken PCC88/7DJ8 from Upscale yet? Ordered two platinum, but they only sent one......Kevin was PO'd about it, but has the second one on the way. These are going into my Torii Jr.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #18 - 02/23/16 at 18:47:18
 
Hekowee,

I have some Siemens labelled PCC88s that look like the same tube, though I am not clear on when these Telefunken labelled tubes were made by Siemens and dates/batches often matter. Mine seem to be the same construction though.

Here is an additional write up on the tube type: https://www.tubemuseum.org/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=SIEMENS-PCC88

These are bold tubes that sound very well made...fast, transparent, clear, spacious, textural, nuanced and extended. It is one of the clearer input tubes I have, a trait of many Siemens tubes I have tried (other clear ones I have: all early 60s....ECC88, E88CC and PCC88 labelled CBS).

I really like this PCC88, though it may be demanding depending on your system since they are so clear and fast. But if the system/room needs more transparency, or with the right compliment of other warmish tubes, I think it is a really good tube.

You have to be thoughtful about sellers, looking at ratings, measurements, and to be sure about the same construction/vintage when buying on Ebay, but there are many reputable and reliable tube sellers. You can occasionally find these Siemens for around 75 for a pair (plus shipping) there.
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« Last Edit: 02/23/16 at 18:51:14 by will »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #19 - 02/23/16 at 19:48:30
 
Thanks Will for the the link, and your observations. Should have #2 tube in a couple of days, and after some burn in, I'll update with my thoughts. I probably should re-post this info on the "Tube" thread since this query has nothing to do with Ediswan.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #20 - 02/23/16 at 20:35:38
 
Thanks for the responses.  I am kind of in a tube phase now that my latest speaker build is done.

Lon, I have been trying to buy some Amperex via eBay for some time now but keep losing the auctions.  I have been reluctant to pay $150 for a pair but it may come down to that.

Supposedly, the specific 6n23Ps I bought surpass the Amperex in several areas.  It's a Head-fi favorite, especially the 1975 version.  I got '74s because they were more reasonably priced and supposed to be close.

I'll dig up the link where one guy did the review, but I've also seen other positive comments about the silver shield, single wire getter 6n23ps.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #21 - 02/23/16 at 21:09:49
 
This is what I bought.  Seems they jacked up the price since I bought.  Same tubes, Same seller.  20 days and counting on the shipping.  Haven't hit the States yet as far as I can tell.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/6N23P-E88CC-6922-6DJ8-MatchedPAIR-REFLEKTOR-Single-Wire-...
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #22 - 02/23/16 at 21:12:46
 
And here is the review I referenced.  Seemed thoughtful although a strong Russian tube background.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/761078/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-730...
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #23 - 02/23/16 at 22:13:16
 
Palomino wrote on 02/23/16 at 20:35:38:
Thanks for the responses.  I am kind of in a tube phase now that my latest speaker build is done.

Lon, I have been trying to buy some Amperex via eBay for some time now but keep losing the auctions.  I have been reluctant to pay $150 for a pair but it may come down to that.

Supposedly, the specific 6n23Ps I bought surpass the Amperex in several areas.  It's a Head-fi favorite, especially the 1975 version.  I got '74s because they were more reasonably priced and supposed to be close.

I'll dig up the link where one guy did the review, but I've also seen other positive comments about the silver shield, single wire getter 6n23ps.

You know I just don't trust other reviews in other amps by others. If someone were using them in the Torii Mk III with the same speakers in a similar room. . . okay. But otherwise, big grains of salt, and I trust my own experience and those in the forum with similar equipment and tastes and not Joe or Heaphone Dude or Top  Hype Merchantman.

Really it's all about the tube complement I think. I have a pair of Arcturus OB3 that are magic in the Torii and a pair of old 5V4 bottle type that are magic in the Torii. I find that the TAD KT66 are magic in the Torii. I build my inputs around these and the Amperex 7308s I have are a head and shoulder above others, for me, period, including another pair of Amperex 7308 I use in another Torii!

So if anyone finds a particular type of tube that works for them and brings or supports the "magic" in a complement, I'm happy for them, but I don't necessarily assume they'll be the cat's meow for me. And I'm done paying big bucks for tubes, my favorites I didn't pay that much for (including the Amperex 7308s). At the right time the right tubes have appeared I guess. Luck of the draw? Or part of the magic? I don't know!
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #24 - 02/23/16 at 22:21:27
 
I am just exploring getting to the right compliment.  I intend to google your magic Torii mix.  Thanks

Still, I look for tips from anybody to try to narrow down the field.  There is a good bit of crossover of tubes discussed here and those on his list.

I will let you know about the reflektor 6n23ps (assuming they get here).

I took the tip from the Stone-meister on the other ruskie tubes and it seems to have worked well.

And I will keep looking for the Amperex.  I just choke a little at $150+.  Timing does seem to be everything.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #25 - 02/23/16 at 22:29:43
 
Oh, and what brand are your 5V4s?
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #26 - 02/23/16 at 22:46:07
 
1940s RCA 5V4Gs. I used to use an RCA 5V4GT very happily in my Select and remembered that a year ago or so and found an old matched pair to try in the Torii. Gives just the right amount of "forgiveness" to sources for me, and great recordings (and vinyl) shine, works great with the other tubes in the complement, for me.  

I have tried other brand of rectifier and regulation tubes but somehow I end up with RCAs.
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« Last Edit: 02/23/16 at 22:48:36 by Lon »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #27 - 02/24/16 at 18:15:11
 
Top  Hype Merchantman  ;D Grin Grin Grin Grin  ....has provided me with great 6922's. Worth every penny!
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #28 - 02/24/16 at 18:35:53
 
Good on you. Not for me.
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« Last Edit: 02/24/16 at 18:36:08 by Lon »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #29 - 02/26/16 at 14:01:11
 
Below, is the Tube compliment I'm sticking with for the next 4500 hours.

4500 hours of estimated 6922 tube life  / 100 hours per month = 45 months / 12 months in a year = 3.75 years of Listening pleasure.

What do I do then? Ediswans die/gone  :'( ....Hoping Mullards work to my liking.... .

.....as for cost of a $200 pair of 6922' Tubes (Ediswans or Mullards) = worth it (+ the Telefunken).
$200 per pair.....in CSP3 and ZMA.....bringing both to their pinnacle of involvement = priceless.


Decware CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps
(NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Input Tube~NOS Platinum Ediswan Cryogenic CV2492/6922's for Output Tubes & 5U4G-C Rectifier)
****************************************************
10 of 10 for Input tube & *9* of 10 voltage for Output tubes
Volume adjustment usage at 25% to 55% from 0
****************************************************

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
~BIASED at *60* mA~
(NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 in my A12 an B12 positions~Cryoset 6H23N-EB's for Inverter Tubes~JAN Sylvania 0A3's & New Quad of Tube Depot Stealth/Tung-Sol KT66's)
ZMA adjusted at 10%, 15% to 25% max, from 0
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« Last Edit: 02/26/16 at 14:03:48 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #30 - 02/26/16 at 14:21:41
 
Did you try the Bells yet?
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #31 - 02/26/16 at 16:41:30
 
Hi Will, no I have not. I'm just buying/backing up my current Tube compliment. Once, I'm comfortable with that being done....I will get the Bel's. ....moving them around as a pair...... .
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #32 - 02/26/16 at 19:28:25
 
I have a few pair of Philips SQ which Upscale claims the Bel basically are... My SQs are all different sounding, but really good tubes...becoming harder to find reasonably though.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #33 - 02/29/16 at 01:19:58
 
Hi All! I don't post much but I'm past 2 years now with my Tori IV. I've rolled many input tubes (Ediswan CV2492, Telefunken E88CC, Amperex 7308 and Siemens Made Branded Telefunken 70J8s..and others)...and I have to say that I could live with all of them but the Telefunken 70J8s sound the best in my system/room (Zu Soul Superfly Speakers).  Sadly I read a year a half ago a post by Steve that suggest that any 70J8 in this amp would be great..and I didn't listen! Spent a lotta money on other tubes and recently purchased the 70J8s and am blown away.  So much so that I bought a second pair. Truly amazed by the upgraded sound stage...and all around incredible sound. I highly recommend at least trying these tubes especially considering the price compared to other like tubes.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #34 - 03/05/16 at 15:25:40
 
Hi Paul, cool, might have to try the Tele you're talking about.

We are using different Amps....but still close.

I recently took my CSP3 out of the chain and I'm running my ZMA direct from ZDSD. Loving it ~ the additional transparency. I might be selling my CSP3.

I also put my pair of Telefunken E88CC
http://www.upscaleaudio.com/6922-6dj8-7308-pcc88/telefunken-e88cc-6922/

in my ZMA Inputs (glad I bought a pair a lot cheaper from Upscale last year vs. this higher price). Having precise imaging and a detailed top end with these vs. the Mullard lush tone of my Ediswan's ~ in which I still love....I just switch when I want the Tele sound vs. my Mullard Edi' sound.







Listening Room:


Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew

Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)/Sandwich weighted for Isolation

Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC

Shunyata Research Ztron Alpha Digital Power Cord to ZDSD!

Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder
***************************************************************
W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the curb quite a few superb DAC'S!
***************************************************************
(@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192)


WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030


Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
~BIASED at *60* mA~
(NOS/Platinum/Telefunken E88CC/6922 in my A12 an B12 positions~Cryoset 6H23N-EB's for Inverter Tubes~JAN Sylvania 0A3's & New Quad of Tube Depot Stealth/Tung-Sol KT66's)


***************************************************
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades
***************************************************

Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)
.....from 8ohm Taps





Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)


XLO Pro Power Cord to ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport, ZDSD are Regenerated/*122*~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output)
***************************************************************************

PS: NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 /Inputs = ZMA are breathtaking.............. .

*Also: Cryoset 6H23N-EB's, rotated in and out of Inputs/ZMA*
(Way different internal guts/halo/getter...they are NOT 6N23P-EV's)

NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Input Tube/CSP3 ~ not taken for granted neither......... .

NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 /PRE Outputs of CSP3, running  into ZMA Inputs with Ediswan's = revelatory!
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« Last Edit: 03/05/16 at 15:35:21 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #35 - 03/07/16 at 13:59:58
 
I have my Cryoset 6H23N-EB's back in as phase-splitter's (I did have the Telefunken's in as splitter's for a bit) & NOS/Platinum/Ediswan CV2492/6922's in my inputs.

I do believe I like the EB's as inverter's and rotating between the Ediswan's and the NOS Platinum Telefunken E88CC's for Inputs of my ZMA.

Furthermore, I'm enjoying-running my ZMA direct from ZDSD, with these tube compliments!
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« Last Edit: 03/07/16 at 14:01:13 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #36 - 03/07/16 at 15:38:18
 
I must add, I won't be selling my CSP3 anytime soon. It is still very transparent and adds weight and dimension into/through my ZMA.

But, right now, enjoying running the ZMA direct from ZDSD....with very apparent virtue.

It's like Spring today!  I actually have a window open!
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #37 - 03/07/16 at 15:48:44
 
Yes, as I've mentioned a number of times I actually prefer my DirectStream going directly into the Torii Mk III, a better sound without the compression and shaving of detail that can occur with the CSP2+. But right now I am running the DirectStream into the CSP2+ because I find I love the sound of the ZP3 directly into the CSP2+ and as I have three sources I can only run one directly into the Torii Mk III. . .right now I choose the ZP3 because my vinyl sound is just off the charts.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #38 - 03/10/16 at 13:46:59
 
Restored my CSP3 back in the chain. Using the Tube compliments below/exactly.

I have a pair of Mullard E188CC / 7308 NOS Platinum Cryogenic coming. It will be interesting to hear if I like them in my pre outputs or ZMA inputs..... . Got to have some Mullards!!! (Real ones/true NOS).






Listening Room:


Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew

Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)/Sandwich weighted for Isolation

Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC

Shunyata Research Ztron Alpha Digital Power Cord to ZDSD!

Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder
***************************************************************
W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the curb quite a few superb DAC'S!
***************************************************************
(@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192)

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps
(NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Input Tube~NOS Platinum Ediswan Cryogenic 6922's for Output Tubes & 5U4G-C Rectifier)
****************************************************
10 of 10 for Input tube & *9* of 10 voltage for Output tubes
Volume adjustment usage at 25% to 55% from 0
****************************************************

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
~BIASED at *60* mA~
(NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 in my A12 an B12 positions~Cryoset 6H23N-EB's for Inverter Tubes~JAN Sylvania 0A3's & New Quad of Tube Depot Stealth/Tung-Sol KT66's)
ZMA adjusted at 10%, 15% to 25% max, from 0

***************************************************
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades
***************************************************

Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)
.....from 8ohm Taps




Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)


XLO Pro Power Cords to CSP3 an ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport, ZDSD an CSP3, Regenerated/*122*~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output)
***************************************************************************
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« Last Edit: 03/10/16 at 13:47:44 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #39 - 03/10/16 at 15:05:06
 
I finally received the Silver Shield Single wire getter 6n23p '74s mentioned in that review I posted.  They easily bested the 6H23N-EB's cyro's and really bring out the best in my new OBs.  The 6H23N-EB's were definitely a step up, but these are a fairly good step up beyond them.

More air, more realism, more detail.

Even though the price got jacked up, I bought another pair for the future.  After I bought another pair I saw that they jacked them up another $10.

I'd like to get some Amperex now to compare, but I've dropped too much on tubes the last two months so I will have to hold off for now.
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« Last Edit: 03/10/16 at 15:05:41 by Palomino »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #40 - 03/10/16 at 15:21:27
 
Pal,
Do you have a link to the seller you can share?
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #41 - 03/10/16 at 15:28:35
 
Just search eBay.  There are a couple of sellers.  Silver shield, single wire getter, Reflektor plant, '74 or '75.  Supposedly the gray shields are pretty good too, but not as good as the Silver Shields.

It is a bit of a gamble, I'll admit given that the people who have these tubes at a sub $200 price are in Ukraine or Russia, but I rolled the dice and it turned out OK.  I used a different seller for the second set, because they look like they are in better shape (assuming the pictures are real).

Don't expect to see these anytime fast.  I think my first set took 30 days from Ukraine.

The reviewer in that post also sells them, but he charges a significant premium but there is more peace of mind and you will get them a lot quicker.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #42 - 03/10/16 at 21:48:50
 
I've been playing around with 6N23P/6H23P types I have on hand (three matched pairs) in the CSP2+ and the Torii Mk III today. All three pairs exhibit family characteristics: a very open midrange and nice dynamic contrast. In comparison to the Amperex 7308s I generally use in both machines the treble is less controlled and the bass is both a bit looser and a bit lower in audibility. I have my favorite pair right now in the Torii and my Amperex pair of 7308s in the CSP2+ . . . good sound. . . I miss the previous set up a bit. . . I'll keep playing this and see if they settle down a bit more.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #43 - 03/10/16 at 22:04:32
 
Well that leaves me even more curious about the Amperex.

Right now, my order is (from lowest to highest or best sound):

1. Vokshod 6n1p cryo
2. 6n23p Vokshod, single wire getter, grey shield
3. 6H23N-EB's, Reflektor, grey shield cryo (60's I think, have to look)
4. 6n23p '74 Reflector, single wire getter, silver shield

I have a pair of Gold Lion 6922s and SEL 6djs as well, but those aren't even in the rotation.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #44 - 03/10/16 at 22:19:28
 
I've got a box full of tubes. . . . I'd say my favorite of the 6N/6H (H and N are really the same cyrillic letter as I see it) are a pair of Vokshod silver/single I got from ebay some time ago and the supercryo'd Reflektors from cryoset.com

I rolled out my beloved Arcturus bottle style 0B3s for a pair of Mullard straight shoulder 0A3s in the Torii and that is making things rough and ready. . . helping the super cryo'd 6N23Ps out. . . . Sort of wish I hadn't started rolling (as I'll have to stop soon and I could use more time) but oh well!
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #45 - 03/10/16 at 22:22:42
 
I shudder to think about what I have spent here.  And I haven't even moved on to rectifiers yet.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #46 - 03/10/16 at 22:31:38
 
Just think of how valuable those will be when we end up in audio debtor prison. . .we can trade them for favors to make life more bearable. Wink
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #47 - 03/11/16 at 13:59:04
 
I'm back to the tube complement I started to move away from. Yes, I'm very comfortable and familiar with the sound from this set of tubes. But they just also have the right characteristics for my system and room.

I have an untreated room, I will probably never again (or at least for a few decades) have a room dedicated to my listening and able to be "treated," so a tube complement that works for ME may well not work for someone in a room dedicated and treated for audio.

I'm going to need a new set of TAD KT66 soon. I tried the coin based Russian tubes. . . they're nice. . .but. . . I'll keep a set for back up but. . . I've become addicted to (and have set up the system around) the sound of KT66 output tubes. Otherwise until some of my tubes in use show age, I'm going to try not to spend more money on tubes!
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #48 - 03/11/16 at 15:28:01
 
I'm done with the Russian 6922 stuff.

My Mullard's come tomorrow. FedEx always delivers by 1:30pm on Saturday's.  

Rotating my two pair of Ediswan's, one Pair of Telefunken's and one pair of Mullard's.....around through my CSP3 and ZMA is where I'm at for fun (nailing down the phase inverter slots~see ZMA Thread). My hardware is set! I consider the 6922's the software.

I will be buying 7 other different pairs of tubes (6922) from Kevin this year.  I hear you about the Rectifier position too Palomino.....I'll bring in an RCA 5U4G and the Philips 5R4GYS.
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« Last Edit: 03/11/16 at 15:36:55 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #49 - 03/11/16 at 15:38:34
 
I'll probably end up selling a few pairs come Nov/Dec this year. I will list in the Classifieds here on Decware first.....then AudioGoN.




Decware CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps
(NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Input Tube~NOS Platinum Ediswan Cryogenic 6922's for Output Tubes & 5U4G-C Rectifier)
****************************************************
10 of 10 for Input tube & *9* of 10 voltage for Output tubes
Volume adjustment usage at 25% to 55% from 0
****************************************************

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
~BIASED at *60* mA~
(NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 in my A12 an B12 positions~Cryoset 6H23N-EB's for Inverter Tubes~JAN Sylvania 0A3's & New Quad of Tube Depot Stealth/Tung-Sol KT66's)
ZMA adjusted at 10%, 15% to 25% max, from 0
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« Last Edit: 03/11/16 at 16:06:26 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #50 - 03/11/16 at 21:40:31
 
I have the RCA 5U4Gs but prefer the punch of the 274Bs.  That said, I may bring them back in to see how they run with the new 6n23ps and the OBs.

I'm not sure I can articulate what I am after but smooth dynamics if there is such a thing.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #51 - 03/11/16 at 21:45:47
 
Tomorrow afternoon, I'm running:

CSP3
NOS/Platinum/Ediswan CV2492/6922 = Input Tube
NOS/Platinum/Cryogenic/Ediswan CV2492/6922 = Pair/Output Tubes

ZMA
NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC = Pair/Phase Inverter's
NOS/Platinum/Cryogenic/Mullard/E188CC/7308 = Pair/Input Tubes
~YES! I got the Mullards Cryo!~

All Tubes purchased new~NOS/Platinum tolerance/from Kevin/Upscale Audio.

Run this compliment/at least 10 days.....before switching any of them around.


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« Last Edit: 03/11/16 at 22:08:44 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #52 - 03/11/16 at 21:50:02
 
.....all are burned in except the Mullards coming in tomorrow.

Yes Pal, I like the clean phase Invert' of my Telefunken's....but like the smooth dynamics of the Ediswan's. I can't get the Edi's anymore, but the Mullards are there equal per Kevin.

I'll have all Edi's in my Pre that I would walk on broken glass for....glad I got a 2nd pair when I could and Cryo'd.

I should try the 274B again, that came with my CSP3. I just prefer the 5U4G-C rugidized. I put a new one in every 8 or 9 months.
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« Last Edit: 03/11/16 at 21:55:08 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #53 - 03/12/16 at 17:20:34
 
FedEx delivered at 8:50 am this morning!  They are the best.

Anywho, I open the box like a kid at Christmas and I behold not NOS/Platinum/Cryogenic/Mullard/E188CC/7308's!  I received NOS/Amperex/JAN/7308/Gold Pin/Green's! Well, I was going to order these next anyway.....so let's go give them a whirl.

I kept my Telefunken in the input of my CSP3 with Cryo Ediswan's for outputs....hitting up my Cryoset 6H23N-EB's for Inverter's....with the Amperex as ZMA inputs.

..............Absolutely stunning in the midband....without giving up to much on top or down below!  Glad I got these instead of the Mull's!

I'm going to stick with this Tube compliment chain, before I switch it up and get the Telefunken's back in the phase-splitter slots.

WOW!  Fun!   ....of course it is 65 degree's out and sunny.....calling to leave the glorious music. I'll try to get out there later!
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #54 - 03/12/16 at 17:56:18
 
You hear and read the talk about the best spec'd Amperex 7308's? But, until you hear them yourself.....who cares?!  

Well, they deserve the wow! Nice to have 3 distinct pair's (4, I have 2 pair of the Edi's)....doing their distinct things. The slam of the Edi's is to be witnessed for example.... .

Expensive, yeah a little. However, I'd rather pay for the best spec'd NEW/NOS that truly has 7500 to 10,000 hours of use to be had by ME, vs. the garb and fakes that are out there on the net.

Peace, happy Listening.....over and out for now. -Stone
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #55 - 03/15/16 at 19:54:23
 
Found the best place for my NOS/Amperex/JAN/7308/Gold Pin/Green's. Preamp CSP3 outputs with Telefunken input for Pre. Feeding 6H23N-EB's for phase-inverter's with Ediswan 6922 inputs of ZMA.

Beautiful detailed liquid midrange feeding my ZMA! When I want a different flavor and a little lower in the bass....my Cryogenic Ediswan 6922's go back in the CSP3 outputs.

Awesome mistake....whomever packed these at Upscale last week?! Chit happens! Thanks! I'm not sending them back. The Mull's I was to receive can wait down the road.....for purchase.

Kudos to Brooklyn and Hicksville, NY....back in the day!
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« Last Edit: 03/15/16 at 20:10:06 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #56 - 03/16/16 at 17:27:13
 
I'm going to try a pair of these next:
http://www.upscaleaudio.com/6922-6dj8-7308-pcc88/siemens-7308/

Right now though, totally digging the Amperex in my Tube combination below. Figured I'd spice it up and see how aggressive the above pair might be..... .






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***************************************************************
(@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192)

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(NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Input Tube~ NOS/Platinum/Amperex/JAN/7308/Gold Pin/Green's for Output Tubes & 5U4G-C Rectifier)
****************************************************
10 of 10 for Input tube & *9* of 10 voltage for Output tubes
Volume adjustment usage at 25% to 55% from 0
****************************************************

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
~BIASED at *60* mA~
(NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 in my A12 an B12 positions~Cryoset 6H23N-EB's for Inverter Tubes~JAN Sylvania 0A3's & New Quad of Tube Depot Stealth/Tung-Sol KT66's)
ZMA adjusted at 10%, 15% to 25% max, from 0

***************************************************
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***************************************************

Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)
.....from 8ohm Taps




Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)


XLO Pro Power Cords to CSP3 an ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport, ZDSD an CSP3, Regenerated/*122*~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output)
***************************************************************************
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #57 - 03/17/16 at 14:26:25
 
Okay, I put the Siemens 7308's on the back burner for May's purchase.

I have the Platinum Cryogenic Mull's coming! FedEx del. 3/22.
http://www.upscaleaudio.com/6922-6dj8-7308-pcc88/mullard-e188cc-7308/

However, the mistake/pair shipment of Amperex/JAN/7308/Gold Pin/Green's.....I don't want to return. I was emailed a return shipping label... . I will call Kevin and pay for them over the phone. They are simply superb.

Current Tube Lineup/CSP3:
(NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Input Tube~ NOS/Platinum/Amperex/JAN/7308/Gold Pin/Green's for Output Tubes & 5U4G-C Rectifier)

.....the Tele is a lock for input.....the JOY comes from rotating the Amperex, my other pair of Cryogenic Ediswan's and the Mullards coming on Tuesday, through the CSP3 outputs/Pre (+future pairs, the above Siemens 7308 and a few others)......each pair providing its own flavor to my settled upon Tube compliment in my ZMA.

Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
~BIASED at *60* mA~
(NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 in my A12 an B12 positions~Cryoset 6H23N-EB's for Inverter Tubes~JAN Sylvania 0A3's & New Quad of Tube Depot Stealth/Tung-Sol KT66's)


....the Mull's are to be similar to my Ediswan's...so I can move my 2nd pair of Edi's to storage ~ to replace the current Edi's in the ZMA inputs....many moons and hours down the road.

Thus, I will continue on my NOS 6922 World Tour in May....to see what can stay in my cache and is worthy of my CSP3 outputs....like the Ediswan's, Amperex and Mullards are. Footnote: I have all other tube compliment tube positions/now~sufficiently supplied/backed up.

......the Tour/Quest for the best 6922 NOS in the WORLD continue's!

Cheers.
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« Last Edit: 03/17/16 at 17:36:36 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #58 - 03/22/16 at 20:13:22
 
I have the NOS Plat Ediswan Cryo's back in my CSP3 outputs. Damn, I love this tube!  I can't get anymore. However, the Mull's coming tomorrow, are to be their match.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #59 - 03/22/16 at 21:32:36
 
By putting my 2nd pair of Ediswan's away for use 6 years from now (after the current pair wear down for 6 years), should get me 12 years out for the Polar Ice Cap melt and Methane release....and that will wrap it up for all of us?!  

These NOS Plat's, 10% tolerance should get me 7500 to 10,000 hours/each pair. So, another pair of Mull's and I got the other slots already covered....I am good!

Smoke um' if you got um'!  Great metaphor for the impending, right?!!
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #60 - 03/22/16 at 23:32:45
 
Stone

I just found: Ediswan CV2492 / 6922 pair of used tubes on Audio Asylum. They were originally from Upscale Audio, platinum grade. I have to see what all the fuss is about.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #61 - 03/22/16 at 23:56:04
 
Yes, I saw those from the late 90's he bought them from Upscale. They look to be good. Snap them up.

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #62 - 03/23/16 at 00:45:13
 
I know you guys are "been there, done that" on the 6n23ps but I think these '74 silver shield 6n23ps sound like they are in the same league.  

Stone, I'd send you a pair to try but then I'd have to part with them and I am hooked far too bad.  It's the reason I immediately bought another pair to see me through to the nuclear winter.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #63 - 03/23/16 at 14:36:31
 
Yes, 2nd pairs of your favorite Tubes are a must have.

I'm covered on my Telefunken; a lock for my CSP3 input Tube, Ediswan's, mutilple Recitfiers, multiple 0A3's, Cryoset 6H23N-EB's for phase splitter's and Mullard's (the Mull's rotated with the Edi's in the outputs of CSP3 and inputs of ZMA positions.....2nd pairs stored away).

I bet those silver shield's 74 are pretty damn good Pal..... . But, I'm so into German, American/British, American and British Tubes, made on there respective soils/and NOS Platinum Tolerance~Cryode'......I can't go back.

I do like the Russian 6H23N-EB's for phase splitter's though.....I bought these as a matched quad from Cryoset 2 years ago/and now put a pair in....blows away the stock ones as phase splitter's.

I have a pair of Siemens  and Bel's.....to get (6922)....and that will wrap it up.
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« Last Edit: 03/23/16 at 15:04:14 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #64 - 03/23/16 at 15:43:28
 
I appreciate you guys paving the way on some of these tubes ($$$).  

Being in the same family of amps helps a lot because I find that the findings are largely transferrable.

The key question I have is how much do I spend to see if I can go above these Ruskies.  If I could only convince El Presidente to buy some new tubes we could compare.

Are you still out there El Presidente?  Or did you also board a rocketship?
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #65 - 03/23/16 at 15:45:21
 
He is so busy with that new lovin'.....I suppose I can't blame the guy....not being around here and all.   Wink Wink
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #66 - 03/23/16 at 17:07:20
 
I still want to come down and visit you guys sometime this year. I certainly would bring my 6922's/stay at local Hotel. You guys are only 5.5 to 6.5 hours away.

Yes Palomino, ($$$) on my stash of 6922's. The only reason I can afford them and swing the 705's through/in here come Friday.....stems from the proceeds of my last years selling of quite a few pieces of gear and tubes. The fund is just about dry....but I will be set.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #67 - 03/24/16 at 15:12:31
 
Okay, I put 4 hours on my new NOS Plat Cyrogenic 6922 Mullards last night. Very, very nice start. I have them in my CSP3 outputs, providing a very nice signature pump in to my ZMA, Mull's are known for. Details and smooth in the midrange/never being etched. Depth too.

I like the Mullard's better than the Amperex 7308's. However, the Amperex are very good Tubes. I could see where a person with high efficient speakers/bright - would like them more than I.

The Mullard's will be in my back and forth rotation with my Cryo 6922 Ediswan's, in the CSP3 output position.

Next pair coming in:  Siemen's 7308, for ZMA inputs. They will back up rotate with my other pair of Ediswan's in this position. Driven into by the Mull's or other pair of Edi's described above/from CSP3. I have the input pos. of my CSP3 locked in with my Telefunken and phase splitter's in ZMA are Cryoset 6H23N-EB's.

Tube/6922 mission almost complete!
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« Last Edit: 03/24/16 at 15:13:08 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #68 - 03/24/16 at 15:28:56
 
Hmmm interesting comment on the Amperex.  Kind of fits my situation.  Also seems to fit Lon's situation (and thus use of these tubes) given his listening preferences.

Come on down Stone.  We are having trouble getting the band back together given el presidente's love life and Rob's silly preoccupation with, of all things, his family.  But, we may rally for Axpona and/or a visit by the Stone man.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #69 - 03/25/16 at 15:15:11
 
Yeah, Axpona coming up?!

Will need to plan something/my Adagio's do fit in my Ford Focus....and bring the 6922's of course!

Right now I'm home...doing laundry and cleaning the place up for the Easter Weekend. However, I made the mistake of firing up the Rig and the door is open. I keep getting drawn in to sit down and bask in the righteous righteousness of the E188CC 7308 Mullard's!  Damn good!  I might be damn near broke on my 6922 Quest...but, well worth it.

Polk 705's coming in today. I will put some hours on them in the SS Rig over the weekend, before moving them to the Listening Room sometime next week.

Cheers, and a great Easter Weekend to all.




Listening Room:


Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew

Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)/Sandwich weighted for Isolation

Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC

Shunyata Research Ztron Alpha Digital Power Cord to ZDSD
{Extremely Significant}

Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder
***************************************************************
W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the curb quite a few superb DAC'S!
***************************************************************
(@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192)

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps
(NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Input Tube~ NOS/Platinum/E188CC 7308 Cryogenic Mullard's for Output Tubes & 5U4G-C Rectifier)
****************************************************
10 of 10 for Input tube & *9* of 10 voltage for Output tubes
Volume adjustment usage at 25% to 55% from 0
****************************************************

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
~BIASED at *60* mA~
(NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 in my A12 an B12 positions~Cryoset 6H23N-EB's for Inverter Tubes~JAN Sylvania 0A3's & New Quad of Tube Depot Stealth/Tung-Sol KT66's)
ZMA adjusted at 20%, 30 to 35% max, from 0

***************************************************
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades
***************************************************

Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)
.....from 8ohm Taps




Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)


XLO Pro Power Cords to CSP3 an ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport, ZDSD an CSP3, Regenerated/*122*~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output)
***************************************************************************
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« Last Edit: 03/25/16 at 15:41:02 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #70 - 03/30/16 at 15:34:21
 
NOS/Platinum/E188CC 7308 Cryogenic Mullard's, continue to impress with settling in......... . They have made the rotation with my Cryo pair of Ediswan's in the CSP3 Outputs.

Next up: Siemens.....see reply #56. Flavor's and shades of flavor's, are what it's all about............ .
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« Last Edit: 03/30/16 at 15:34:56 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #71 - 04/02/16 at 20:13:25
 
Oh, how sweet it is to be loved by these Mullard's. They just continue to settle in and impress~pure liquid. The price still gives me a little agita. ...... However, = heaven though.... .

~YMMV~

I don't prefer them for inputs of my ZMA. ....For my CSP3, as outputs with a Telefunken input = magic.

ZMA has Ediswan's for inputs and 6H23N/P-EB's for inverter's.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #72 - 04/05/16 at 18:19:32
 
Well, I had to get another pair of the Mullard's. Sublime, sweet, extended, detailed, deep, timbre.....the superlative adjectives could go on. Love Kevin's tubes at Upscale Audio ~ period.

See Tube compliment below. I have arrived at how they flow to one another. Tubes all backed up now, too.

I will put my Cryo Edi's in the CSP3 outputs sometimes too, for a different flavor. However, the Mull's are so exquisite feeding the ZMA...I'm hard pressed to pull them out of the Sonic Picture they pump/produce.

I need to tighten up the budget for now. I will go on another Quest again, late this year..........from Upscale.







Listening Room:


Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew

Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)/Sandwich weighted for Isolation

Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC

Shunyata Research Ztron Alpha Digital Power Cord to ZDSD
{Extremely Significant}

Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder
***************************************************************
W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the curb quite a few superb DAC'S!
***************************************************************
(@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192)

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps
(NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Input Tube~NOS/Platinum/E188CC 7308 Cryogenic Mullard's for Output Tubes & 5U4G-C Rectifier)
****************************************************
10 of 10 for Input tube & *9* of 10 voltage for Output tubes
Volume adjustment usage at 25% to 55% from 0
****************************************************

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
~BIASED at *60* mA~
(NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 in my A12 an B12 positions~Cryoset 6H23N-EB's for Inverter Tubes~JAN Sylvania 0A3's & New Quad of Tube Depot Stealth/Tung-Sol KT66's)
ZMA adjusted at 20%, 25 to 30% max, from 0

***************************************************
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades
***************************************************

Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)
.....from 8ohm Taps




Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)


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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #73 - 04/08/16 at 15:31:53
 
My other pair of NOS/Platinum/E188CC 7308 Cryogenic Mullard's are in! Two day delivery from S. Cal., free shipping~I'm impressed (USPS).

Running NOS Plat Cryogenic Mull's out of CSP3 in to the new pair of NOS Plat Cryogenic Mull's/Input's of Zen Mystery Amp. Just beautiful man, just beautiful.

Oh my aching back! I got those Polk 705 dogs out of here. The 705 Tweeter and the like, had no business being in my Listening Room against the stellar Tweeter designed inhouse and built by Mr. Lee/Acoustic Zen Adagio's. Plus, the underhung voice coil driver's in these sweet Speaker's with x-over's gone/single capped!  Bliss baby/bliss!

Cheers! Enjoy!
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #74 - 04/08/16 at 15:37:29
 
Thanks for the update Stone.  

I am having trouble keeping up with all your combos.  I know this requires some time and effort, but can you summarize your findings?
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #75 - 04/08/16 at 16:16:45
 
You bet Pal. I will summarize after some more time, doing rotations:

NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC  (1 pair)

NOS/Platinum/E188CC 7308 Cryogenic Mullard (2 pair)

NOS/Platinum/Ediswan CV2492/6922 (1 pair)

NOS/Platinum/Cryogenic Ediswan CV2492/6922 (1 pair).









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{Extremely Significant}

Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder
***************************************************************
W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the curb quite a few superb DAC'S!
***************************************************************
(@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192)

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps
(NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Input Tube~NOS/Platinum/E188CC 7308 Cryogenic Mullard's for Output Tubes & 5U4G-C Rectifier)
****************************************************
10 of 10 for Input tube & *9* of 10 voltage for Output tubes
Volume adjustment usage at 25% to 55% from 0
****************************************************

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
~BIASED at *60* mA~
(NOS/Platinum/E188CC 7308 Cryogenic Mullard's in my A12 an B12 positions~Cryoset 6H23N-EB's for Inverter Tubes~JAN Sylvania 0A3's & New Quad of Tube Depot Stealth/Tung-Sol KT66's)
ZMA adjusted at 20%, 25 to 30% max, from 0

***************************************************
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades
***************************************************

Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)
.....from 8ohm Taps




Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)


XLO Pro Power Cords to CSP3 an ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport, ZDSD an CSP3, Regenerated/*122*~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output)
***************************************************************************
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« Last Edit: 04/08/16 at 16:50:05 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #76 - 04/08/16 at 18:14:43
 
I have some 7DJ8’s on the way to see if anything can dethrone the Ediswans in the ZMA.  I ordered the tubes from Upscale Audio and made the mistake of calling to ask a few questions about tubes and a few other things.  I stumbled upon a few reviews on Yelp of folks who had a bad experience talking to Kevin on the phone but I called anyway.  Basically the negative reviews were spot on.  Kevin may know a lot about tubes but he is a condescending ass who appears to be too busy to talk to paying customers.  Probably the last time I order from them.

On a different note, I have a Tung-Sol KT-66 tube that has been going bad, or better yet, wasn’t good from the start.  So while I wait for another set of Tung-Sols to arrive, I put in a set of Gold Lion’s.    

The presentation between these two power tubes is quite different in the ZMA.  The Tung-Sols give you more of a front hall experience, while the Gold Lions are mid-hall.  Said differently the overall presentation from the Gold Lion’s is softer, less powerful and more laidback (both tubes biased to 60mA in the ZMA).  Bass on the Tung-Sol’s is tighter and more present.

Both sets of tubes are very musical and it’s easy to forget about the differences once you settle into the music.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #77 - 04/08/16 at 18:40:42
 
That is pretty much what I heard with both the Tung-Sols and the Gold Lions in my Torii Mk III. I preferred the Gold Lions, because I prefer that mid-hall presentation. The TAD seem to have the best of both of these two presentations, I've really enjoyed them and they've lasted the longest for me. Will probably get another quad soon, but may go for Gold Lion again for a change of pace. . . .(All three of the quads in the three brands were cryo'd from cryoset.com).
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #78 - 04/08/16 at 18:45:23
 
Aaaaa, Kevin's alright. He gets a little crabby...... .

I know, aren't the Ediswan's something else!  

Right now I'm running Mullard's out and in with my CSP3 and ZMA. The Mull's are special. However, I'll run my Cryogenic Edi's from CSP3 to Edi's ZMA inputs again soon!  They knock you into next week/with their tonal balance too~different flavor/with ass kicken' bass!

http://www.upscaleaudio.com/?subcats=Y&pcode_from_q=Y&pshort=Y&pfull=Y&pname=Y&p...

.....which 7DJ8's did you get Dave?
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #79 - 04/08/16 at 19:54:35
 
"He gets a little crabby......" .
Just kidding with you Kevin....you're da man.

Anyway, in the fall, I'm ordering the Philips 7DJ8, Pope 7DJ8, 7308 Siemens and the Tungsram 7DJ8.

Cheers, I just cracked open a Double IPA Summit, 30th Anniversary Brew!  

Cheers again!


http://www.upscaleaudio.com/?subcats=Y&pcode_from_q=Y&pshort=Y&pfull=Y&pname=Y&p...
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« Last Edit: 04/08/16 at 20:05:54 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #80 - 04/09/16 at 01:18:39
 
Stone...Pope and Tungsram.  According to Kevin, the Tungsram would be closest to the Ediswans.  He said he was raising the price soon so you may want to grab a couple now.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #81 - 04/09/16 at 01:23:39
 
Stone I look forward to the day you decide to sell the excess tubes in your collection!  I am not sure I can make it to the nuclear winter just yet on current stock. Roll um if you got um.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #82 - 04/09/16 at 17:23:27
 
I read you Dave. Damn price increases with supply going down. I saved $40 off the pair, when I got my Telefunken's when I did.

Pal, I need to hang on to these tubes. Worth every penny.

I'm pretty well set with 7500 estimated hours on my new NOS Platinum tubes per pair. Each pair is backed up with Platinum matched pairs.

I like my Mullard's/CSP3 to Ediswan's inputs ZMA the best.
2nd best like is, Mullard's/CSP3 to Mullard's inputs ZMA (I'm running right now).

Locked in and love: Telefunken as input CSP3 tube.
5U4G-C Rectifier (have quite a few of these).

0A3's for ZMA, have some good stock of these.
Phase inverter's, I'm using are awesome too (have those backed up).


Decware CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps
(NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Input Tube~NOS/Platinum/E188CC 7308 Cryogenic Mullard's for Output Tubes & 5U4G-C Rectifier)
****************************************************
10 of 10 for Input tube & *9* of 10 voltage for Output tubes
Volume adjustment usage at 25% to 55% from 0
****************************************************

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
~BIASED at *60* mA~
(NOS/Platinum/E188CC 7308 Cryogenic Mullard's in my A12 an B12 positions~Cryoset 6H23N-EB's for Inverter Tubes~JAN Sylvania 0A3's & New Quad of Tube Depot Stealth/Tung-Sol KT66's)
ZMA adjusted at 20%, 25 to 30% max, from 0


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« Last Edit: 04/09/16 at 17:24:22 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #83 - 04/11/16 at 19:15:53
 
Mullard's/CSP3 outputs to Mullard's inputs ZMA.....I'm pretty sure, this combo, just dethroned my Mullard's to Ediswan's ~OR~ Ediswan's to Ediswan's....combination's!!!

.....and I'm running 88 to 92db SPL, with absolute authority/LIVE realness and clarity of Tone & Timbre, that ANY Solid State at any price cannot match.

Highly recommended.....the E188CC 7308 Mull's!  They take a tad longer to warm up (from cold start up) than the Edi's.....but oh so very worth it...when they hit their stride (Mull pair to Mull pair)!
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« Last Edit: 04/11/16 at 23:43:59 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #84 - 04/11/16 at 23:47:49
 
....."ANY Solid State at any price cannot match".

I will NOT caveat this statement with IMHO. I've been doing this for 30 years and have found my System for MUSIC.

Good Luck and enjoy the Journey.


PS - of course, my Ediswan's will still be part of the equation..... . They are all so goooooood!
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« Last Edit: 04/11/16 at 23:51:43 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #85 - 04/12/16 at 01:35:59
 
Sorry if this is detailed somewhere in the thread but specifically which mullards are you talking about?  I did a Google search and came up with a few favors.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #86 - 04/12/16 at 16:12:56
 
E188CC 7308 Mullard's: This should help you out of the Fog..... . Grin Grin Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Cool Cool

https://tubeworldexpress.com/search?q=7308+Mullard

http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/6922-E88CC-Tube-Types/Mullard-E188CC-7308

http://www.tubemonger.com/Mullard_MPs_MINT_NOS_1970_80_E188CC_7308_RTC_GTBri_p/1...

http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/en/shop_Other_brands_OEM_Tubes_Preamp_doubletriodes...
These tubes are known for their amazing midrange and detailed inner resolution and have some of the highest strength and test results we have seen in any 7308 E188CC tube.
(not an idle boast)

http://audiotubes.com/6dj8.htm
MULLARD
Mullard logo
"When it comes to warmth, no other tube can top this jewel from the British crown. Silky highs, a liquid midrange, and awesome deep bass give this tube its deserved reputation for warmth and full sonics."

Price Each

Quantity in Stock


E188CC / 7308 (premium 6DJ8) Mullard made, 1970s, made in Great Britain, gold pins MATCHED PAIRS .

New Old Stock Philips Box. These are the most difficult to find in the 7308/6922 NOS family. Ultra low noise, matched triode sections, thickly plated gold pins, nice warm sound. Nice Mullard British made 7308 tubes with RTC labels (have the Mullard factory code) are very difficult to find in the USA. Made at the Mitchum, UK factory which made tubes for the British military. SINGLE TUBES, WHEN AVAILABLE, ARE $175.00

$325.00 per pair

In Stock

Brent Jesse is ridiculous at this price. Buy them from Kevin/Upscale at $236/pr. NOS Platinum Cryogenic!

http://www.upscaleaudio.com/6922-6dj8-7308-pcc88/mullard-e188cc-7308/

You can see how I use them in reply #82. They absolutely kick the piss out of the Ediswan's in every respect except the lowest bass. The Edi's can do that a little better. But, the little you give up in the bass with the Mull's.....is more than worth it....for the Mull's high's and midrange liquidity.

RUSSIAN TUBES NEED NOT APPLY.  Except, I'm pleased with them as phase inverter tubes and my power output tubes (ONLY).

PS-but make no mistake....the Ediswan's are damn good tubes. You won't find my two pair for sale ever.  They can be put in my casket with my Mullard's (and pair of Telefunken's I use for CSP3 input tube).   Cool
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« Last Edit: 04/12/16 at 16:46:31 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #87 - 04/12/16 at 16:45:50
 
Thanks Stone.  The gauntlet has been thrown down.  I'll look for a pair and compare to mother Russia!

Granted, I will be using a Torii, but once in hand, I may storm Eric's house, demand entry and access to his system.  New domestic partner be dammed.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #88 - 04/12/16 at 16:51:30
 
It is all I can ask!  :)  :)

After about 25 to 40 hours on them. If you don't like them....I will buy the pair from you.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #89 - 04/12/16 at 16:54:27
 
I doubt I will want to part with them.  I have never had  bum steer on tubes from anyone on this forum.  

I think I can actually expand that statement and say I have never had a bum steer on any audio purchase from this forum.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #90 - 04/13/16 at 15:27:32
 
I ordered the Tungsram's. One pair each of Kevin's Platinum Spec'd.

Tungsram pair to Tungsram pair will have its own Signature.

It will be fun to move them around with my Telefunken, Ediswan and Mullard pairs combinations.

I will start them out with Tungsram PCC88 pair from CSP3 outputs to Tungsram 6922 pair inputs of ZMA.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #91 - 04/13/16 at 17:36:39
 
Pal, I think you will enjoy the Mullard's in your inputs/Torii.

Well, despite the fact that I returned the Polk 705's (momentary lapse of reason there and a sore back.....not to be confused with my collector Polk SRS SDA 1.2 freaken' awesome Speaker's, in my Solid State Rig).......my IC's, Speaker Cable's, Digital Cable's, 4 Amp's, 2 Dac's, Accesories and TUBES sell off last year...... . My fund from these fund's has run-ith dry-ith.

The addition of the Tungsram's should keep me busy.

Furthermore, I find it interesting how much influence the phase inverter's have on the sound. I'm now running a pair of my Ediswan's for phase inverter's and Mullard's for input tubes/ZMA. Getting more extended bass, while maintaining the liquidity/midrange and highs of the Mullards. Very nice!

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« Last Edit: 04/14/16 at 15:20:31 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #92 - 04/17/16 at 02:30:24
 
Tungsram's are here! Putting in tomorrow with a Cup of Joe.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #93 - 04/17/16 at 14:21:24
 
Running Tungsram pair of 6922 E88CC out of my CSP3 to input pair ZMA Tung's PCC88 7DJ8.....with a fresh mug of Pete's! If first impressions are still anything just an hour in......very nice investment  for the next 7500 to 10,000 hours.

New NOS Platinum
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« Last Edit: 04/17/16 at 14:23:50 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #94 - 04/18/16 at 16:10:31
 
With only 16 hours on the Tungsram's pair's.....I think I know where they will be in my rotation:

CSP3 outputs to ZMA inputs.....
#1) Mullard's to Ediswan's
#2) Tungsram's to Tungsram's
#3) Ediswan's to Ediswan's
#4) Mullard's to Mullard's

....and I need to try the Tung's with different pairs.

Constants are: Telefunken for input tube CSP3, 5U4G-C Rectifier, JAN Sylvania 0A3's, 6H23N/P-EB's for phase inverter's and Tung-Sol KT66's.

Important: See previous posts, for exact model number's of tubes.

A little expensive? Yes. But, I wanted new NOS Platinum, with 10% or less tolerance and most of these pairs are Cryo'd too. All pairs are backed up with another pair/stored.

Worth it vs. stock tubes?   YES. Or, I would sell them (with proof of my Receipts/provided). Not selling!

Enjoy, if you decide to do it!
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #95 - 04/19/16 at 17:37:52
 
Recon intel on the Tungsram's was no BS.

These Hungarian mid 70's new NOS Plat's are like Jesus Christmas...my Mully's, Edi's and Tele's, all rolled into ONE!
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #96 - 04/19/16 at 19:03:19
 
I am just going to wait till you get the ultimate of ultimate ultimates before I buy anything to try.  I can't keep up!
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #97 - 04/20/16 at 00:34:39
 
I will tell you, tube rolling 6922 7308 7DJ8 types, is my jam now. Three week's at a time with two pair combinations. Makes the ZMA A KEEPER. No need for a PASS 30.8 or VR LIO.
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« Last Edit: 04/20/16 at 00:36:04 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #98 - 04/20/16 at 03:16:24
 
CSP3 and ZMA combo....I will say = Keeper's

Plus, adjusting the gain settings is so sweet. For example, I put my Mullard's/CSP3 outputs to Mullard's ZMA inputs in again. With the Mull's, I prefer my ZMA up at 45% gain from 0 (instead of 30% approx.). Conversely, the CSP3 gain down to 25% (instead of a 35 to 50% range from 0).

The E188CC 7308 Mullard's are King. With my gain adjustments, they are so in the pocket with midrange and even more aire....it is rediculous.
Sublime and Sweet Mullard's locked in............ .

My Ediswan and Tungsram pairs will see their rotation time. They have their get out of the way ways. The Mull's though, are top dog.
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« Last Edit: 04/20/16 at 18:09:23 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #99 - 04/21/16 at 15:11:50
 
Got the Mullards.  Listening, listening.....

By the way Stone, you have taken over the roll of enabler extraordinaire from Eric.  Don't open any letters or packages from my wife.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #100 - 04/22/16 at 12:24:02
 
OK, the Mullard tubes have a little over 20 hours on them.  That may be a little soon to judge but I think I get their sound.  

I'll get right to the point and then explain.  The Mullards are better than the '74 Single Wire Silver shield 6n23ps - for me.

Both tubes are in the same weight class.  Both offer superb air and detail.  Both offer great soundstage, although I may tip this slightly in favor of the 6n23ps.  The Russian tubes also have tighter bass (so far) but the Mullards offer fuller bass.

What divides the two tubes is the liguidity of the midrange.  The 6n23ps are no midrange slouch, but the Mullards offer better "detailed liquidity."  To some, they may seem a little more laid back.  Keep in mind also that I am 95% digital playback.

Why this is better for me though is that I am running a single driver setup that can be strident on some tracks.  The Mullards smooth that over.  But don't get me wrong, its not syrupy.  It's just smooth AND detailed.  Very nice.  This makes them more musical for me.  It makes the non-strident tracks great and really takes the edge off those that are.

I will keep breaking them in and then when I get the replacement tube for my DOA '75 Single wire, silver shield I'll do another comparo.  That tube is supposed to be noticeably better than the '74.

Great tube Stone man.  I will not be selling.

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« Last Edit: 04/22/16 at 12:25:41 by Palomino »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #101 - 04/22/16 at 14:15:00
 
Great to read Palomino. My same take on them in all aspects, as you mentioned.

When I want tighter, or a subjectively perceived lower bass....I go with my Ediswan pair from CSP3/outputs to Ediswan pair ZMA/inputs. The Edi's are no midrange slouch either, but the Mull's offer more detailed liguidity ....is so, so right! The Mullard bass is fuller, spot on. The bass with the Edi's and Mull's has definition and delineation. Owed to the tubes, Decware and room treatment to get it all right.

Yes, for me too, the way I have my Adagio's capped and crossed...discerning the difference between tubes is easy. I rarely have any stridency, with these driver's in the Adagio's and Tweeter's. Unless I grab some very early digital from my collection, circa 1983 to 1993..... .

My Tungsram's to Tungsram's, I'm still figuring out...they are not in right now.....no surprise the Mullard's are in. The Tung's might be a little more extended in the highs and are trying to do it all (Edi and Mull) combo it seems. Time will tell, when I get them back in. I like the Tung's very much.... .

I have a nice 3 double pair rotation (CSP3/outputs & ZMA/inputs): Edi's, Mull's and Tung's with my Telefunken CSP3 input tube. I even witnessed Mull's to Edi's....I need to witness that combo again. Keeping Mull's to Mull's, Edi' to Edi's or Tungsram's to Tungsram's.....seems the way to go though.

I hear you about the wife (haa)!  I will keep a lookout for any suspicious packages. I told my girlfriend this is it! I can't afford anymore. I'm just going to enjoy!  New NOS Platinum's = 7500 hours plus per pair....worth every penny!






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***************************************************************
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***************************************************************
(@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192)

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps
(NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Input Tube~NOS/Platinum/E188CC 7308 Cryogenic Mullard's for Output Tubes & 5U4G-C Rectifier)
****************************************************
10 of 10 for Input tube & *9* of 10 voltage for Output tubes
Volume adjustment usage at 25% to 55% from 0
****************************************************

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~BIASED at *60* mA~
(NOS/Platinum/E188CC 7308 Cryogenic Mullard's in my A12 an B12 positions~Cryoset 6H23N-EB's for Inverter Tubes~JAN Sylvania 0A3's & New Quad of Tube Depot Stealth/Tung-Sol KT66's)
ZMA adjusted at 20%, 25 to 30% max, from 0
Some Tube inputs, 40 to 45% max, from 0


***************************************************
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades
***************************************************

Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)
.....from 8ohm Taps




Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)


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***************************************************************************
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« Last Edit: 04/22/16 at 18:06:51 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #102 - 04/22/16 at 16:16:55
 
As a music lover and a fan, I would be remiss not to mention Prince. He was loved in the Twin Cities and was approachable....to contrary belief.

This past Saturday he was riding his bicycle, went to the Electric Fetus in Mpls, for Record Day Saturday to just stop in and chat with the owner. Tuesday night, he was at the Dakota for Lizz Wright.

Last Saturday, and not out of the ordinary party at Paisley Park. Also, accessible and a lot of fun.  

I'm glad HE WAS HOME, and being the local guy around town this week.
I LOVE when he brought the FUNK. Prince, behind the Piano solo, in voice and on the Key's.....was ALWAYS Special. He will be missed.

......there was a Rainbow over Paisley Park last evening.....how fitting.
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« Last Edit: 04/22/16 at 18:01:17 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #103 - 04/23/16 at 20:58:33
 
NOS/Platinum/E188CC 7308 Cryogenic Mullard's / CSP3 Outputs

~ to ~

NOS/Platinum/CV2492/6922 Ediswan's / ZMA Inputs

.........nough' said.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #104 - 04/26/16 at 15:57:24
 
I decided to pull my CSP3 out last evening. I wanted to revisit its absence, .....with further seasoning-from the caps in my Adagio's/increase in efficiency, to speaker cable and power cable upgrades, etc... .

I really like what I'm hearing, sans Pre! I'm not selling my Pre just yet. As good as the CSP3 resolution is and weight.....when you do remove it and run the ZMA direct from ZDSD.....now, I'm witnessing a little more of everything and maintaining the great dynamic's too.    .....time will tell...which I prefer (with or without Pre)......running different pairs of NOS input tubes/ZMA.

NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC  (1 pair)

NOS/Platinum/E188CC 7308 Cryogenic Mullard (2 pair)

NOS/Platinum/Ediswan CV2492/6922 (1 pair)

NOS/Platinum/Cryogenic Ediswan CV2492/6922 (1 pair).

NOS Platinum Tungsram 6922 (1 pair)

NOS Platinum Tungsram PCC88/7DJ8 (1 pair)





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« Last Edit: 04/26/16 at 16:01:01 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #105 - 04/26/16 at 16:08:27
 
I keep going back to running the DirectStream directly into the Torii. . . the CSP2+ is great for the ZP3 and for my universal player, but less is more for the digital source. . . . Won't part with my CSP2+ (well, I have three of them and a CSP2, will probably part with a few!) but really enjoy the "direct" approach for Redbook and my DVR.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #106 - 04/26/16 at 16:30:39
 
Lon, from what I'm hearing again this morning. I agree, the direct (no Pre), has me, now, pretty damn smitten. Having both options, makes me appreciate my Decware even more.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #107 - 04/26/16 at 16:34:23
 
Absolutely, it's nice to have both options, but I've been mentioning this last year and this year: I prefer straight in and if my Torii had three instead of two inputs I would probably use those three and the preamp would be in a closet. It's a credit to the best sources and to Steve that these amps don't need a preamp for their use. Lesser sources. . . yeah, the CSP series of preamps really can help.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #108 - 04/26/16 at 17:00:43
 
So true Lon, you have stated this. I don't think I'm going back to the Pre..... . I'm glad I waited/resisted trying again, until now. I needed to know the Pre so well (plus further seasoning of all)....now, I am able to fully discern its absence.  YES, nice testament to Decware. I want for nothing else.








Listening Room:


Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew

Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)/Sandwich weighted for Isolation

Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC

Shunyata Research Zitron Alpha Digital Power Cord to ZDSD
{Extremely Significant}

Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder
***************************************************************
W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the curb quite a few superb DAC'S!
***************************************************************
(@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192)


WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
~BIASED at *60* mA~
(NOS/Platinum/E188CC 7308 Cryogenic Mullard's in my A12 an B12 positions~Cryoset 6H23N-EB's for Inverter Tubes~JAN Sylvania 0A3's & New Quad of Tube Depot Stealth/Tung-Sol KT66's)


***************************************************
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades
***************************************************

Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)
.....from 8ohm Taps




Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)


XLO Pro Power Cords to CSP3 an ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport an ZDSD, Regenerated/*122*~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output)
***************************************************************************
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« Last Edit: 04/26/16 at 17:06:46 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #109 - 04/26/16 at 17:08:37
 
My only want is the next version of the PerfectWave Transport that PS Audio will introduce later this year. It will allow me to play SACD and Blu-Ray Audio discs through the DirectStream, which is I think the only real improvement I can expect in my system. Not sure if I can swing the cost this year (they will allow a trade in and I have two of the PWTs so can send one in). . . we'll see, will have to sell some things, but that's my one audio want beyond more and more LPs and Cds and SACDs.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #110 - 04/27/16 at 17:49:18
 
....That will be a sweet piece Lon. I know you have a SACD collection and Bluray audio via the i2s.....cool.

Back to Pre/CSP3. I am no stranger to sans PRE, for 12.5 years, I ran my SE84CSelect without one. I keep my original Signature below from May of 2001 when I joined this Forum. As an ode to the SE84CS. I still have the AA Gear listed, that I purchased new in 1995.

I know, you have been a member, since a couple years before 2001. Remember our original post counts (yours being the highest)? .....they were erased when Steve created the New Forum System...... .

Totally enjoying no Pre.....driven direct as I write!
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #111 - 04/27/16 at 18:13:50
 
I've been a forum member since '97 or '98. At one point after the forum change I accidentally deleted my profile and lost like 3000 posts.  Yes, I know you ran for quite some time without the preamp both with the previous amp and the ZMA at first correct? I used to use a Select without a preamp. . . only went to the CSP2 when I got the EL34 Monoblocks I ran for some time before the Integrated and then the Torii Mk II and then Mk IIIs. If I didn't need that third source I could be quite happy without my CSP2+. . . but since I do and will need that third source for this system I keep working on making the CSP2+ be what it can be. . . it's a very versatile machine, if you have to have a pre, one of Steve's is the one to have.
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« Last Edit: 04/27/16 at 18:25:48 by Lon »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #112 - 04/28/16 at 14:04:09
 
.......where does the time go. Yes, I did run the ZMA for a couple months....without the CSP3. Had it on order and received early April 2014. So, I have a good 2 years with her.

Enjoying having the CSP3 out of the chain. But, like you said Lon, if you have to have one, Steve's is it. I don't see myself getting rid of it anytime soon. .....will rotate her back in, now and again. Nice for the 2nd source/as you stated and what the P3 can bring to the party with little or no detriment. I don't want to regret getting rid of this seasoned beauty/CSP3.

Now, back to Tube Rolling! I have my: NOS Platinum Telefunken E88CC pair in my ZMA Inputs. ....simply Stellar!


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~BIASED at *60* mA~
(NOS/Platinum/E88CC Telefunken's in my A12 an B12 input positions~Russian Cryoset 6H23N/P-EB's for Inverter Tubes~JAN Sylvania 0A3's & New Quad of Tube Depot Stealth/Tung-Sol KT66's)
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« Last Edit: 04/28/16 at 14:05:02 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #113 - 04/28/16 at 15:33:12
 
Stone, I am starting to think maybe the Mullards are a bit warm sounding.  I can do some tweaks to adjust.  Not sure I want to roll to something else and lose the liquidity.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #114 - 04/29/16 at 14:17:08
 
Yes, they are tad warm. But the liquidity! So, I can ignore (when I have them in for 4 or 5 days at a time).....the not so extended highs that my tweeter's love with the Ediswan's and Telefunken's I have in right now. The Ediswan's perceived lower bass is something too.

So for me, I have found my Flavor's: 4 or 5 days at a time, (especially with my Preamp out of the chain).....Telefunken pair in ZMA inputs right now.....then Cryogenic Edi's next week, then Cryo Mullard's.....then Tungsram 6922's after Mull's....then the PCC88 Tungsram's.

Never a dull moment. With everything in my chain now seasoned in....I'm loving the ZDSD direct to ZMA with these NOS Platinum Input Tube Pairs!
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« Last Edit: 04/29/16 at 14:20:22 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #115 - 04/29/16 at 16:24:58
 
I can tweek a bit with the Torii III.

I flipped the bias switch and it was already better, but I didn't lose the liquidity.  I can also tweak the treble shunt and go back to the 274Bs.  Bass sounded a little loose this morning, but I can tweak there as well.

I think these tubes are worth building around.  Already considering another set, but I think they are rated for like 10K hours or something crazy.

I am going to put the '74 6n23p's tubes back in for a comparo this weekend if I get a chance.  Oh, and my replacement '75 SWG Silver Shield is on its way from the Russian dealer who made good on his promise to replace the DOA tube.  It just took a while for him to find a matched tube.  The '75s are fairly rare.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #116 - 04/29/16 at 19:18:35
 
I have three pairs of Mullard made E188CC, bought at good prices over the last 5 or 6 years I guess. Two are Phillips labelled SQs and one RTC labelled with 80' on the box, but these tubes were made in the early 70's at Blackburn and labelled by RTC in the 80s.

The RTCs can still be gotten relatively inexpensively from the right Ebay sellers. I got mine for 80 some years ago when a big bunch first came on the scene. And though rarer now, I saw an auction recently, sold inexpensively, and from a seller with very high satisfaction, though from Eastern Europe. No problem for me, I have gotten some very nice tubes inexpensively from several long-term, highly rated sellers in the area.

Anyway, all of these particular Mullard made tubes are the same construction. And they also fit the unusual category of requiring extra long burnin, just like the Telefunken E88CC from upscale. Like all the burnin issues I have had with tubes, caps and amps, the bass is slowest to tighten up and develop good timbre, while the mids and highs tend to be more rigid. With refinement the sound becomes more open, textured, better ambient info...the finally developed fine detail softening and awakening everything.

That said, with mine burned in, they all sound a little different (different productions times), one pair quite open, one fairly warm, and the other in the middle. All are nice tubes that I occasionally like to use.
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« Last Edit: 04/29/16 at 20:03:57 by will »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #117 - 04/29/16 at 19:32:21
 
The single wire 6n23ps and the Mullards are my first foray into >$100 tubes.  

Well worth it in my mind even though it took me some time to pull the trigger.  Having the best year I've had since the downturn and making my last college tuition payment (for now) helped me try them.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #118 - 04/29/16 at 20:49:31
 
I am enjoying this thread guys!  

I just rolled into the ZMA four Tungsram PCC88/7DJ8's.  It's too early to report on SQ as the tubes need to warm up/break in.

I may have to get a set of Mullard's to experience the liquidity you guys keep referring to.

Have a great weekend!
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #119 - 05/01/16 at 15:10:20
 
Like Will said Pal, give them time to burn in an settle in. Don't go over tweak yet.

Dave, cool, I have a pair of the Tungsram PCC88's too. I could not resist, I put my Tungsram NOS Plat' 6922's (ZMA Inputs) in this morning from Kevin. Great stuff from Hungary mid 70's. I did put 30 hours on them in my CSP3 Outputs....they are shaping up nice.....in Inputs/ZMA.

.....I'll get to my Tung' PCC88's in a few weeks......... .

The main thing in this tube rolling, I guess I'm stating the obvious, but....enjoy the differences in your Tube Pairs!

.....My Tung's are not my Telefunken's, which are not my Ediswan's ....which are not my Mullard's.     ENJOY!
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« Last Edit: 05/01/16 at 16:25:25 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #120 - 05/01/16 at 15:50:35
 
Not hyperbole....."Old production SWEET, extended, and stays quiet." & "Dead nuts quiet. Superb detail and dynamics... "

http://www.upscaleaudio.com/6922-6dj8-7308-pcc88/tungsram-6922/

Enjoying with my 2nd cup of Peet's Coffee, Congo Organic KIVU.
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« Last Edit: 05/01/16 at 16:22:53 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #121 - 05/01/16 at 16:37:44
 
ive wondered about those tungsrams...  like them huh
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #122 - 05/02/16 at 01:18:00
 
Hi Trip, yes, after putting about 30 hours on them in my Pre. I've ditched the Pre and are running them direct input. Very nice 5 disc session this morning.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #123 - 05/06/16 at 21:08:10
 
Ahhhh, CSP3 back in baby!  I missed her!

The dynamic muscle that this UL ZMA needs....the CSP3 deliver's. I don't care if you're running balanced from your DAC/direct....I'm walking all over that anemia with my set up........ .

YMMV (to maintain transparency/resolution), for your wires, tubes, acoustic room treatment and absence of the Shunyata Zitron Alpha Digital power cord   Wink....... .

This weekends Tube Entre':
I'm running 3, NOS/Platinum/E188CC 7308 Cryogenic Mullard's in my CSP3.....with my pair of NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC's for inputs of ZMA.  .....rest of see below.

The Friday afternoon party has commenced!!!

This Tube compliment is all soooooooo gooooood!






Listening Room:


Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew

Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)/Sandwich weighted for Isolation

Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC

Shunyata Research Ztron Alpha Digital Power Cord to ZDSD
{Extremely Significant}

Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder
***************************************************************
W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the curb quite a few superb DAC'S!
***************************************************************
(@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192)

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps
(NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Input Tube~NOS/Platinum/E188CC 7308 Cryogenic Mullard's for Output Tubes & 5U4G-C Rectifier)
****************************************************
10 of 10 for Input tube & *9* of 10 voltage for Output tubes
Volume adjustment usage at 25% to 55% from 0
****************************************************

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
~BIASED at *60* mA~
(NOS/Platinum/E188CC 7308 Cryogenic Mullard's in my A12 an B12 positions~Russian Cryoset 6H23N/P-EB's for Inverter Tubes~JAN Sylvania 0A3's & New Quad of Tube Depot Stealth/Tung-Sol KT66's)
ZMA adjusted at 20%, 25 to 30% max, from 0


***************************************************
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades
***************************************************

Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)
.....from 8ohm Taps




Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)


XLO Pro Power Cords to CSP3 an ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport, ZDSD an CSP3, Regenerated/*122*~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output)
****************************************************************************
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« Last Edit: 05/06/16 at 22:23:57 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #124 - 05/06/16 at 21:19:16
 
I'm listening to the CSP preamp too. . . but feeding the Torii glorious vinyl. It does great for vinyl, but try as I might, it's better without for my DirectStream. (The CSP makes it more "HifFi" but not better.) But the system works well this way for my three inputs so I'm just leaving it as is and enjoying the music immensely.

God bless the ZP3.
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« Last Edit: 05/06/16 at 21:39:27 by Lon »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #125 - 05/06/16 at 21:24:37
 
No one can argue a ZP3 for Vinyl....I would bet.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #126 - 05/06/16 at 21:54:49
 
I'm sure you can do better. But I'd hate to see what you would have to pay.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #127 - 05/06/16 at 22:22:03
 
Ditto on that.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #128 - 05/06/16 at 23:28:04
 
Stone,

Nice that you have her back! Got a great listening session going and rising early to catch some stripers that are running. Not sure if you are fishing this spring but glad its the season!!!

JD
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #129 - 05/17/16 at 02:53:26
 
Rob and I got together at his place on Sunday for a mini-CDApS meeting.  Mostly to hear his Gungnir multi-bit upgrade.  But we ended up doing a little tube swapping.

We listened to his 6n1ps (standard Zen issue), my mallards and the 74 silver shield single wire 6n23ps.  To cut to the chase, the 6n23ps clearly sounded the best on his system.  The music cam alive.  The mallards were too dark and the 6n1ps were too slow.

So as you guys know, its a synergy thing with the whole system.

I came home and stuck the 6n23ps in and they sounded good, but bright to me.  Then I went back to the mullards and it was just right.

Rob continues to make strides on his system.  I really think the 6n23ps really made it shine.  It was hard for me to tell the impact of the Gungnir, with all the tube swapping but I did hear things I never heard before and his soundstage was significantly better no matter which tube we had in.

He sent me home with his DAC but I can't seem to get it to work with my SDIF converter.  Don't know what's up with that, but I'm bummed that I am not getting the in home demo I hoped for.

Anyway CDApS rules.  We never fail to make another discovery.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #130 - 05/18/16 at 02:11:22
 
Great summary Palomino.  I had cooled on the tube swapping idea having tried various input tubes (Russian Type 3, Miniwatt Dario, Matsushita National 7DJ8) and having the stock 6N1P clearly beat them all.  But the '74/'75 6N23Ps making a clear improvement in presence and detail, with no other obvious drawbacks, I was re-energized!!  These are so great, and made me forget about my "issues" with my speakers.  The whole system had never sounded better.

CDAPS has been very educational.  Things would not be the same without it.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #131 - 05/18/16 at 14:50:38
 
Yes, the Mullard E188CC's are great. The Mat National's NO. Fortunately, I've had good luck with my Mull's to Mull's, Mull's to Ediswan's, Ediswan's to Ediswan's and last but not least-Tungsram 6922's from my CSP3 to Tungsram PCC88's-ZMA Inputs.

I backed up the Mull's and the Edi's with another pair each so I can run them as describes above, .....plus I have two Telefunken's.....the best tube ever in my Input CSP3 position. Simply spectacular.

I'm done buying NOS Tubes. Have all I need; Kevin does not have any others I want.

Running CSP3 Mull's to ZMA Ediswan's.....right now. Liquid-liquid-liquid. The Mull E188CC synergy with the Amer/Brit Ediswan's is no joke or surprise.
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« Last Edit: 05/18/16 at 14:53:07 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #132 - 05/18/16 at 15:18:58
 
But have you tried the mallards??? Grin Guess I should edit that.

Got Rob's DAC to work.  First via optical, then with my SPDIF converter and allowed me to use his coax as well.  I don't think this was a Schitt issue.  I think it was a Mac/SPDIF converter issue.

Also, coincidently I got my replacement '75 6n23p in the mail.  At first I thought it too was bad, but after a little time in the amp, it seems fine - and better than the '74s as suggested in that review I posted.  Still a little bright with the OBs, but I am still tweaking a little.  I used those tubes in my evaluations.  These are not NOS so I feel they are fully broken in.

Big difference between DACs.  Each DAC has its strong points.  The Chord is more spacious and punchy (I think, output levels between the DACs were hard to match).  The Gunny was more detailed and tonally true - plus more analog sounding and just easier to listen to.  I didn't discern a difference in imaging in terms of placement, just the perceived differences in the space the instruments occupied.  The Chord seemed to exaggerate the reverberation.  The Gunny maybe under emphasized it.  As a result, the size of soundstage was significant between the two DACs.  Not sure which is truer to the original master, but I would tilt it in the Gunny's favor.  Just seemed a little too artificial in the Chord.

I like a big sound and probably would not invest in the Gunny, but it has its strong points.  It just seemed a little contained to me to drop the additional coin.

I think the Gunny does better with brighter tubes.  Tonight I will try the Mullards (or mallards).  I think it will make the Chord more liquid and easier to listen to and make the Gunny sound dull.  They sure did on Rob's Zen UFO.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #133 - 05/19/16 at 15:03:18
 
Nothing wrong with Mallard's   Grin .

Oh yeah, this tube compliment or that one?! I try not to let it drive me nuts. Especially, since I'm running a Pre too.

I find the Mullard's to be best with my CSP3 out of the chain and having the Mull's in the Inputs/ZMA only. However, I love my CSP3 and Mull's to Mull's or Edi's to Edi's are awesome. Right now running Tungsram 6922 out of CSP3 to Ediswan's input ZMA.....just perfect in density and detail. ..........Tone, Tone and more Tone.

Seriously considering the Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE....so I can stick with just running my 6922 NOS tube collection in my ZMA! Most notably too, I want volume and balance control also....via REMOTE!


http://6moons.com/audioreviews/wyred2/preamp.html

"Alas, the STP is far from just another preamplifier......

....plugged in very much describes the intensity of energy transmission at work here. It's a function of speed and color. Usually 'fast' and 'saturated' are core qualities with a number of associated attributes which conflict. They tend to refuse to go hand in hand. The audiophile becomes perennially involved with strategically voicing between components for just the right overall balance. Tone versus speed. Transparency versus density. Here the ideal balance seems built in. It's really quite the wicked combination."

https://wyred4sound.com/products/pre-amps/stp-se

Its been in production for 7 years....the Standard SE version is what was used (see Manufacturer's comment at the end of the 6 Moons read). The Standard SE version is all that is needed. We all don't like 10% restocking fee's (+ shipping to and from). However, I'm compelled to have this STP-SE in my Listening Room, driving my ZMA.
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« Last Edit: 05/19/16 at 16:00:31 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #134 - 05/19/16 at 16:39:42
 
I emailed Tony just 30 mins. ago!  Great service! ....I had questions about the Outputs. All solved.

Hi Larry,

Thanks for the interest! The STP-se will output to whatever cables are connected to it. It has 2 balanced and 2 unbalanced pairs of outputs, giving you plenty of flexibility. Choose whichever output you wish, or even multiples as it will output simultaneously.
--

Tony Holt
Wyred 4 Sound

support@wyred4sound.com
Ph: +1 (805) 466-9973

Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE vs. CSP3.....will commence soon!

It will be interesting: Couple of things for starter's....solid state rectification vs. Tube ~and~ voltage adjustment/hallmark of the CSP3 vs. the STP passive/active hybrid...................... .
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« Last Edit: 05/19/16 at 16:48:37 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #135 - 05/20/16 at 02:39:02
 
Input impedance of the ZMA is okay. But, Maximum Output Voltage: 9V RMS....for the STP....not good. Oh well.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #136 - 05/20/16 at 15:44:44
 
Pardon my digression, with my Preamp exploration. 9V max output of the W4S STP.....is not nearly enough to drive the ZMA appropriately. You want to keep your ZMA in the volume/gain zone that you use when driving it direct from Source (I do drive it direct from ZDSD with my Mullard E188CC's/Input's ~ ZMA).

Then, for added density, definition/resolution and maintaining speed and transparency.....the CSP3 or new ZTPRE are wanted and needed. CSP3 goes to 30V output (ZTPRE at 35V). I prefer 24V and 27V out. ZMA at the sweet spot of 30 or 35% of volume/gain from 0.

If I want Remote Volume (and to get away from Tube Rectification)....I need the ZTPRE. I love my CSP3 so much and need the exercise anyway!  I will run my ZMA exclusively with Decware Pre's only. Other's need not enter the Room!

Now, back to 6922 tube types of this thread. Hijack has finished. Roll Eyes Grin






Listening Room:


Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew

Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)/Sandwich weighted for Isolation

Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC

Shunyata Research Ztron Alpha Digital Power Cord to ZDSD
{Extremely Significant}

Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder
***************************************************************
W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the curb quite a few superb DAC'S!
***************************************************************
(@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192)

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps
(NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Input Tube~NOS/Platinum/Tungsram 6922/E88CC's for Output Tubes & 5U4G-C Rectifier)
****************************************************
10 of 10 for Input tube & *9* of 10 voltage for Output tubes
Volume adjustment usage at 25% to 55% from 0
****************************************************

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
~BIASED at *60* mA~
(NOS/Platinum/Ediswan CV2492/6922 Cryogenic in my A12 an B12 positions~Russian Cryoset 6H23N/P-EB's for Inverter Tubes~JAN Sylvania 0A3's & New Quad of Tube Depot Stealth/Tung-Sol KT66's)
ZMA adjusted at 25%, 30 to 35% max, from 0


***************************************************
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades
***************************************************

Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)
.....from 8ohm Taps




Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)


XLO Pro Power Cords to CSP3 an ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport, ZDSD an CSP3, Regenerated/*122*~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output)
****************************************************************************
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« Last Edit: 05/20/16 at 16:00:46 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #137 - 06/02/16 at 13:37:50
 
Ah yes! E188CC NOS Platinum Cryogenic Mullard's back in my CSP3 outputs with Telefunken input. Feeding Ediswan pair for ZMA inputs....does not get any better!

Hey, I have a NAD M51, coming in to challenge my ZDSD for Red Book play. The best way for me to get Volume/gain control from my Listening Chair. Supposedly, without truncating bits.

I'm also intrigued to play some Blu-ray Audio with it. I like a dozen Titles from elusivedisc.

I will eventually, try running it direct to my ZMA. However, my NOS 6922 tubes I run out of my CSP3 an into my ZMA, can't be beat for me. Plus, my gain structures: ZMA at 25% up from 0 volume, with CSP3 at 45% up from 0 volume....allowing me to attenuate with the M51....should be heaven.

However, the ZDSD's output stage Steve designed, is going to be hard to beat.

The M51 comes today. Let the Games begin (RIO)! Umm, ah, I mean NAD and ZDSD output stage challenge!   Grin
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« Last Edit: 06/02/16 at 13:40:59 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #138 - 06/02/16 at 18:46:42
 
Nice DAC. After I got my gain(s) adjusted. The ZMA stays at 25% from 0/remaining rock solid (under and on the cusp of clipping). The CSP3 needed to go from 45% from 0 to 70%. This way, the M51 can be attenuated beautifully at a range of -4db to +2db! I HAVE REMOTE VOLUME ~ YAAAAAA!

I like what I'm hearing a lot. Need to give the output stage 100+ hours to season in. Right now, Steve's Output Tranny's are just a tad more organic. Not to say the M51 is not detailed and analog sounding-it is, with a spot on tonal balance. And the control and weight density, driving through the CSP3 at 27 output volts per channel, at 84 to 93.5db SPL peaks (+1 or +2db, from the Remote) is all there and no fatigue-very musical!  I have a hunch the output stage of the M51 will come along nicely (and soundstage is already there with great imaging like the ZDSD). Or, I'll call Steve and see if he can put his Output Tranny's in it.

Happy Listening!
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« Last Edit: 06/02/16 at 19:22:32 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #139 - 06/02/16 at 19:21:24
 
Stone,

The M51 is a great DAC. I had one a few years ago. My memory is not good enough to say how it stacks up against the ZDSD which I also have. You could easily add Steve's output stage by using a Zbit and using the balanced outputs of the M51. I have had good results with the Zbit and various combinations of gear.
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ZMA, ZTpre, VPI Scout 1.1 & Soundsmith Zepher Cart, Janszen zA2.1 Speakers, PS Audio DSD, Berkeley Audio Alpha USB, PS Audio P10, Win 8 & J River app, Morrow Cables Triode Wire Labs #7 & Lessloss PC, voodoo AES
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #140 - 06/02/16 at 19:25:06
 
Cool. Thanks lLance, I completely forgot about the Zbit!

But, ultimately, I'd like it in the chassis (the M51 has the room like the Tascam 3000) and coupled.

The Shunyata Alpha Digital powercord to the M51 like the ZDSD....is not to be underestimated.
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« Last Edit: 06/02/16 at 19:38:05 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #141 - 06/07/16 at 14:03:04
 
No worries about the M51. She has seasoned in at about 38 to 42 hours now. I'm loving the output stage. Running her as described a couple of posts above. She is a keeper and I have volume control straight thru my CSP3 voltage gain! Just simply awesome tone, sound stage and imaging!

The ZDSD is her equal with Steve's output stage. I could live with her for good. However, I adjust volume gain just enough here and there, that the M51/wins the tie breaker.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #142 - 06/07/16 at 20:14:42
 
Ah no, the M51 does not win the tie breaker for having volume control.

I put my ZDSD back in (comparing Red Book to Red Book) and it has better tone/timbre, slight digital sheen that the M51 has is GONE, deeper resolute bass from the ZDSD as well. Micro inner detail of guitar strings and piano, that is accompanying the great timbre of the ZDSD is all back too. Overall way better with the ZDSD.

I will continue to put 100 hours on the M51. So far, ZDSD wins. I will live without remote volume control..... .
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #143 - 06/07/16 at 22:24:02
 
@ stone - or just get the ZTPRE with volume control and be done with it! Grin
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« Last Edit: 06/07/16 at 22:24:42 by beowulf »  
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #144 - 06/09/16 at 17:13:06
 
Going to give the M51 a fair shot. However, the ZDSD is the one for me....the way it is going down..... .

Nope, on the new ZTPRE. Not that I don't want it?! I'm so locked in with my CSP3 and NOS Platinum tube rolling; my System below is the Bomb! I just don't need to adjust the volume that much and the CSP3 has plenty of power/volts to drive my ZMA/Adagio's.

Last night, I put my Kimber KS6063, downstairs in my Big Rig/Polk SDA SRS 1.2 Speaker's. The command, improved shaded timbre and transparency was more than subtle. ..........Running Kimber 8TC exquisitely, in the Listening Room now too!

The Stone of Tone.......Decware.





Listening Room:


Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew

Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)/Sandwich weighted for Isolation

Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC

Shunyata Research Ztron Alpha Digital Power Cord to ZDSD
{Extremely Significant}

Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder
***************************************************************
W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the curb quite a few superb DAC'S!
***************************************************************
(@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192)

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps
(NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Input Tube~NOS/Platinum/Tungsram 6922/E88CC's for Output Tubes & 5U4G-C Rectifier)
****************************************************
10 of 10 for Input tube & *9* of 10 voltage for Output tubes
Volume adjustment usage at 25% to 55% from 0
****************************************************

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
~BIASED at *60* mA~
(NOS/Platinum/Ediswan CV2492/6922 Cryogenic in my A12 an B12 positions~Russian Cryoset 6H23N/P-EB's for Inverter Tubes~JAN Sylvania 0A3's & New Quad of Tube Depot Stealth/Tung-Sol KT66's)
ZMA adjusted at 25%, 30 to 35% max, from 0


New Kimber 8TC/5ft pair/banana
***************************************************
KS6063 moved to SS Big Rig/Polk SDA SRS 1.2 Speaker's
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades
***************************************************

Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)
.....from 8ohm Taps




Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)


XLO Pro Power Cords to CSP3 an ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport, ZDSD an CSP3, Regenerated/*122*~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output)
****************************************************************************
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« Last Edit: 06/09/16 at 17:16:54 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #145 - 06/15/16 at 19:21:04
 
8TC is a great neutral musical cable. However, the KS6063, better's the TC in every way. 6063 is back in the Listening Room. 8TC is great in my Rig downstairs~love it. But, the ZMA is the Amp that shows the 6063's live performance qualities/even truer of timbre with liquidity. 8TC is pretty damn true....but not in the league of the KS6063.

I'm really locked in to Mullard's (CSP3 outputs) to Ediswan's (ZMA inputs) too.
......Then, Edi's to Edi's.....probably is a tie.

I took the Pangea out of my System. It was running from the wall to my P3. Improvement now, with this dark sounding Pcord out. However, I need to ABA it some more..... .
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« Last Edit: 06/16/16 at 15:33:48 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #146 - 06/21/16 at 18:17:35
 
Okay, as much as I like the NEW 8TC, once again, the KS6063 wins in realism of more tone and air for all instrumentations. How close is the 8TC(?) = very close, that is how good it is.

TUBES and Happy Summer Solstice!

Favorites (in order):
Telefunken, always as Input Tube for CSP3
Ediswan pair (CSP3 Outputs) to Ediswan (ZMA Inputs)
Mullards to Mullards
Tungsram 6922's to Tungsram PCC88's

Enjoy the heat! Then, cool down with Decware/Tunes!
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #147 - 06/21/16 at 19:01:20
 
I live in Phoenix and we are lovin' the heat.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #148 - 07/14/16 at 21:08:58
 
Using my Telefunken NOS Plat' E88CC pair in my ZMA Inputs. The slam and majesty........... .

Had my Buttery detailed peddle flower with tight bass NOS Plat' Mullard's in for almost 4 weeks.

Nice change to the Tele's.




Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
~BIASED at *60* mA~
(NOS/Platinum/Telefunken E88CC's in my A12 an B12 positions~Russian Cryoset 6H23N/P-EB's for Inverter Tubes~New NOS RCA 0A3's & New Quad of Tube Depot Stealth/Tung-Sol KT66's)





NOS Platinum Tube Rotations in my ZMA,

(matched pairs/from Upscale Audio/Kevin):

(Germany) Telefunken E88CC ~ 1 pair
(Great Britain) Mullard 7308/E188CC ~  2 pair (both pair Cryogenic)
(US/Great Britain) Ediswan CV2492/6922 ~ 2 pair (one pair Cryogenic)
(Hungary) Tungsram 6922/E88CC ~ 1 pair
(Hungary) Tungsram PCC88/7DJ8 ~ 1 pair
(Russian) Cryoset 6N23N/P-EB ~ 2 pair

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« Last Edit: 07/14/16 at 21:13:20 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #149 - 07/31/16 at 15:30:02
 
NOS Platinum Ediswan's back in for ZMA Input Tubes. Simply put....just a musical cornucopia.

ARC LS17 SE.....continues to break in and is just sublime with the ZMA, with a control and dimensionality, not had alone with the ZMA. All the transparency is there now too.....the LS17 has delivered!

Furthermore, my 6063's are over on A-gon. I've been rotating the 8TC in the last couple of months....... .
Kimber 8TC, New clear jacket ~ 5 ft. Pair/Banana Plugs.
(The detail/imaging/definition and soundstage with the KS1030 IC's, 8TC and the addition of the LS17 SE Pre ~ bests the 6063).



Listening till noon....then outside....to nice to be in. Drive down the St. Croix River/Mississippi, this afternoon and dinner in Hastings.








Listening Room:


Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew

Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)/Sandwich weighted for Isolation

Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC

Shunyata Research Ztron Alpha Digital Power Cord to ZDSD
{Extremely Significant}

Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder
***************************************************************
W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the curb quite a few superb DAC'S!
***************************************************************
(@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192)


WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030


***Audio Research LS17 SE Preamplifier*** ~ w/stock 6H30's

.....will upgrade to: DR
http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/6H30-Tube-Types/Russian-6H30P-DR


WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030


Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
~BIASED at *60* mA~
(NOS/Platinum/Ediswan CV2492/6922 in my A12 an B12 positions~NOS Russian Cryoset 6N23N/P-EB for Inverter Tubes~NOS RCA 0A3's & New Quad of Tube Depot Stealth/Tung-Sol KT66's)
ZMA adjusted at 50 to 60% ~ from 0 Gain/with ARC LS17 SE


Kimber 8TC, New clear jacket ~ 5 ft. Pair/Banana Plugs
(The detail/imaging/definition and soundstage with the KS1030 IC's, 8TC and the addition of the LS17 SE Pre ~ bests the 6063)


Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)
.....from 8ohm Taps





Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)


XLO Pro Power Cords to ARC LS17 SE an ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport, ZDSD an ARC LS17 SE, Regenerated/*120*~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output)



NOS Platinum Tube Rotations in my ZMA,

(matched pairs/from Upscale Audio/Kevin):

(Germany) Telefunken E88CC ~ 1 pair
(Great Britain) Mullard 7308/E188CC ~  2 pair (both pair Cryogenic)
(US/Great Britain) Ediswan CV2492/6922 ~ 2 pair (one pair Cryogenic)
(Hungary) Tungsram 6922/E88CC ~ 1 pair
(Hungary) Tungsram PCC88/7DJ8 ~ 1 pair
(Russian) Cryoset 6N23N/P-EB ~ 2 pair
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« Last Edit: 07/31/16 at 17:06:32 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #150 - 08/01/16 at 20:16:56
 
Have the opportunity today to listen while doing some other business, etc...around the place here. So, I did another/take the Pre out of the chain....driving the ZMA direct from ZDSD. I have to say their is just an "je ne sais quoi", to the ZMA being driven direct. The Decware Tone just comes fully through.

Having the Pre in (ARC LS17 SE), I "get it". It is different and a good "different", as described in my previous post. I could see where quite a few whom might hear it (with Pre to ZMA), say they prefer how it manipulates the ZMA and where can they order a ZMA for their ARC Pre! However, me and the rest of the Room, would say, "you're all nuts....the ZMA is best driven alone by your DAC or ZDSD!"

I'm still going to rotate the LS17 SE in and out for a couple more months before I let her go. ARC, is pushing their new thing ~ let it break-in for 600 hours ~ not just 120   Roll Eyes.  She probably is going.....ZMA rules on her own. I think the caps and power tranny's + output tranny's have seasoned in some more or something..... . I am loving the ZMA sans Preamp now.

Also, as mentioned in above post, I'm running white & clear jacket 8TC for Speakers and is absolutely stunning. I'm in the camp that it beats the old blue & black jacket 8TC, for more detail retrieval, without being etched....and with a big soundstage and accurate deep bass...as low as your System allows (sans Subs).
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« Last Edit: 08/02/16 at 17:16:34 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #151 - 08/09/16 at 15:41:17
 
I tested the water's on Agon, to sell my KS6063 and ARC Pre. Glad I kept getting low balled/I canceled the posts. Going forward, I will rotate the LS17 SE in and rotate Speaker Cables too.

The LS17 is really starting to open up (huge caps). It has replaced my CSP3 very nicely....when I want her/Pre, in the chain.

Ediswan's rule man (inputs)! I have my Telefunken's in as phase inverter's.....absolutely awesome...even blacker more detailed musical presentation....locked in seat. LS17 SE & KS6063 in right now too....sweet!

If you can find some Edi's testing well....get them.

My Mullard's are stellar too. However, they are the one's alone...that I prefer driving direct from ZDSD to ZMA.....the most/I should say....a delicacy, I would call it. The rest, I love the dynamic killer drive and weight density (commanding the ZMA) of the LS17 SE......bigger soundstage too.




NOS Platinum Tube Rotations in my ZMA,

(matched pairs/from Upscale Audio/Kevin):

(Germany) Telefunken E88CC ~ 1 pair
(Great Britain) Mullard 7308/E188CC ~  2 pair (both pair Cryogenic)
(US/Great Britain) Ediswan CV2492/6922 ~ 2 pair (one pair Cryogenic)
(Hungary) Tungsram 6922/E88CC ~ 1 pair
(Hungary) Tungsram PCC88/7DJ8 ~ 1 pair
(Russian) Cryoset 6N23N/P-EB ~ 2 pair

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« Last Edit: 08/09/16 at 15:52:06 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #152 - 08/09/16 at 21:01:14
 
I looked up KS6063 online and holy s***.  And to think I use some no-name Monster knock-off that's curled up under the cabinet.  Wow.

I saw your ARC on Audiogon and I thought long and hard about it.  Then I saw some guy selling them new for a bit more than yours.  Then I thought about the warranty.  Too much thinking.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #153 - 08/09/16 at 21:35:19
 
Hey Match, I know I would love your System. But, to do the refinement and squeeze more fidelity and timbre.....the rabbit hole is there....and I'm down in it.

Not in a million years would I pay the full list for the KS6063. I paid $110 below the half price for these. They were mint from thecableco. I own 8TC, and have owned 3033, 3035 for extended periods. The 6063 deliver. However, Kimber has made the new clear jacket 8TC so good...it can canabalize the product line a little bit so. But, the 6063 deliver's on some Disc's with jaw dropping timbre and deep imaging. Ah, let me rephrase this...it deliver's/gets out of the way on everything. What it lacks in just a little detail it makes up for in TREBLE extension refinement....that will make you piss your pants and cry. The definition and refinement, for example in Floor Toms......must be heard and the rest of the Timbre spectrum for that matter..... .

The ARC LS17 SE can be had for a little more than I was asking for it. I decided to keep it....I have the full warranty on it!  With 8TC and especially the KS6063.....ARC's moniker of High Definition is no idle boast/with my ZMA.....no boat anchor negative feedback tube amps need apply for the job.  ....but this ARC Pre bests my CSP3 easily. It has the LS27 proprietary Caps in it/Ref3 stuff too. At its height of production it sold for $4800 with the upgrade to SE version. Then listed at $5500 for awhile. They new to discontinue....it tended to canabalize the upper line....with its high value. (ARC blinked in 2011, with a DOW below 11000 pts. ....made this guy for 4 years ~ this SE version is just about unbeatable.....except for maybe an 5SE).

Anyway, I'm glad I got low-balled and canceled both listings.....best of both worlds....ARC world class Pre....and 6063 and switch out to no Pre with ZMA and my Mullard's for input tubes/ZMA....heaven running two Systems in one............ .

Oh, and ARC Pre's don't break....and if they do? ....They pride themselves on being able to fix all their stuff for 46 years back except for CD Transports....so yup, my circuit(s) will be on the shelf waiting in 10 years if ever needed for a reasonable cost and top notch service.
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« Last Edit: 08/09/16 at 21:57:20 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #154 - 08/09/16 at 23:22:13
 
Those Kimber cables must be amazing.  I've been reading reviews and I've yet to find anyone that doesn't like them.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #155 - 08/10/16 at 00:55:39
 
Kimber cables may be my new obsession.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #156 - 08/10/16 at 15:07:42
 
Worth pursuing Match....long as the rest in the chain is up to the task...I love Steve's output stage of the ZDSD and the Ztron Alpha digital power cord is a must.....I use Kimber 1030 IC's, etc....clean power...... .

Anyway, to wrap up my thoughts on this....to be specific I got the KS6063's 8ft with Silver WBT Spades for $2680 and the LS17 SE for $2848....delivered and full warranty/registered....(new/sealed box)....from Paragon.

So, can't complain....worth every penny. So, why sell? Well, I could live with the ZDSD running direct to my ZMA with NOS tubes and 8TC......but after getting low balled for the 6063's and LS17 SE....(unlike the success I had last year selling 9k of stuff)....both are to good as described above to let go.....glad I came to my senses.....and at the prices I got both at..... .
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« Last Edit: 08/10/16 at 15:09:19 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #157 - 08/10/16 at 15:30:39
 
Stone, I think your gear is a keeper.

I've looked at Kimber and while the KS6063 is not congruent with my current setup the 8TC I think might be.  So, I'll put that on my short list for my current setup.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #158 - 08/10/16 at 15:33:04
 
I'd like to "keep" Stone's gear  ;)
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #159 - 08/11/16 at 15:17:18
 
I'd like to keep Stone's gear, too.

So, stone, I did some checks on Kimber and most of it is beyond my means at the moment; however, the 4PR seems to be within reach.  I mean, it has to be better than Monster knock-off, right?
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #160 - 08/12/16 at 02:52:22
 
8VS would be a good choice.  Forgiving + still the Truth.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #161 - 08/12/16 at 22:41:07
 
If you go with the Kimber 4PR I suggest evaluating at the same time the Golden Helix from Mapleshade records. If you are trying the 8TC match it against Steve's Silver Reference.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #162 - 08/17/16 at 15:46:51
 
Well, like I said in Reply #156 guys.....I can live with the ZDSD direct to ZMA with 8TC.....running that again this morning....can't get anything else done.....must force self to get in shower.....meet daughter with loaded truck to move in to College...in a couple hours! Second year, she got a House with the rest of her crew.....out of the Dorms.

So much so, I have the ARC and KS6063....back on the market. Win ~ win. If I don't get what I want for them ~ they stay as part of my, in and out of the chain rotation...very nice.

However, if they sell? More Decware?  Yeah, the new Mono's....why not! I almost bought the original tube regulated pair when they were available.... . The new ones Steve has described.....sound very nice....have that Pentode in Triode rotating in (again)......oh yeah.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #163 - 08/17/16 at 15:54:51
 
stone, will the new monos require a pre-amp?
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #164 - 08/17/16 at 18:02:00
 
That's a good question. I think they will.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #165 - 08/17/16 at 20:49:04
 
Yes, so we're clear.....I do mean the new/new Mono's:
http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1471401401

.....not the 6C33C Mono's.

So, yes, they should have gain.

.....and $2500 for the pair............. .
??   Roll Eyes

They won't supplant my ZMA.....just need to bring back in Pentode's in Triode again too (tube regulated).    8-)






Listening Room:


Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew

Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)/Sandwich weighted for Isolation

Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC

Shunyata Research Ztron Alpha Digital Power Cord to ZDSD
{Extremely Significant}

Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder
***************************************************************
W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the curb quite a few superb DAC'S!
***************************************************************
(@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192)



WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030


Audio Research LS17 SE Preamplifier ~ w/stock 6H30's

~ OR ~ NO PRE....run ZDSD Direct to ZMA



WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030


Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
~BIASED at *60* mA~
(NOS/Platinum/Ediswan CV2492/6922 in my A12 an B12 Input positions non-Cryo Pair~NOS/Platinum/Telefunken E88CC for Inverter Tubes~NOS RCA 0A3's & New Quad of Tube Depot Stealth/Tung-Sol KT66's)
ZMA adjusted at 30% to 40-60% max ~ from 0 Gain


***************************************************
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades
***************************************************
~ OR ~
Kimber Clear Jacket 8TC Banana Plugs


Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)
.....from 8ohm Taps






Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)


XLO Pro Power Cords to ARC LS17 SE an ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport, ZDSD an ARC LS17 SE, Regenerated/*120*~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output)



NOS Platinum Tube Rotations in my ZMA,

(matched pairs/from Upscale Audio/Kevin):

(Germany) Telefunken E88CC ~ 1 pair
(Great Britain) Mullard 7308/E188CC ~  2 pair (both pair Cryogenic)
(US/Great Britain) Ediswan CV2492/6922 ~ 2 pair (one pair Cryogenic)
(Hungary) Tungsram 6922/E88CC ~ 1 pair
(Hungary) Tungsram PCC88/7DJ8 ~ 1 pair
(Russian) Cryoset 6N23N/P-EB ~ 2 pair
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« Last Edit: 08/17/16 at 21:15:43 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #166 - 08/17/16 at 23:09:09
 
Stone, I bought a pair of the original Zen Signature Monoblocks from a forum member maybe a couple years ago.  Mine are originally built in 2008 and had been sent in for a couple upgrades.  They do sound sweet.  I can guarantee the new ones will be much more than $2500.

This replacement of the OA3 with an OD3 sounds intriguing.  I wonder how it would change the sound.  I use a pair of Zu Audio Soul speakers that are 99 dB so I don't need the extra watts.

PS...the ones tgarden talks about in the posts below are the ones I own.  Also there is an owner's manual.

http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?board=newmonos
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« Last Edit: 08/17/16 at 23:13:17 by mark58 »  

"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils;
The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted." William Shakespeare
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #167 - 08/18/16 at 01:04:21
 
I know that thread well. Thus, my rolling eye's.....$2795.00 is fair for the newer version.  We wil read how they pan out....and pan out at Decfest.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #168 - 08/18/16 at 01:26:07
 
So, you know where you can shove your guarantee Mark  ;D Shocked Cool
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« Last Edit: 08/18/16 at 01:29:03 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #169 - 08/18/16 at 03:25:57
 
Stone, you're right $2800 sounds fair but it IS more than $2500. You'll have to give us a review.  Do you plan on buying a pair?  I love mine.  No shoving going on here....LOL...Mark.



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« Last Edit: 08/18/16 at 03:26:43 by mark58 »  

"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils;
The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted." William Shakespeare
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #170 - 08/18/16 at 13:27:39
 
Ha! LOL, Yes 2800 is more than 2500. Pardon the shove it talk....just messing with you.

Yes, I am interested. I miss my SE84CS sometimes. Having these Mono's to swap in from ZMA would be fun and insightful sound. Of course, within reason SPL's. How I have my Adagio's single capped, should be just fine....... .

I'm selling a couple things, or at least one of the two....I should be able to swing it. Will see how it shakes down from the master Steve. The 0D3 does sound intriguing. UFO output tranny's too.
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« Last Edit: 08/18/16 at 13:45:47 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #171 - 08/18/16 at 17:35:02
 
For those of you who have been intimidated by pricing on "legend" tubes, I thought I should post that there are some NOS Mullard E88CC/6922 gold pins on sale at partconnexion just now. For me, they are a go-to place for DIY parts etc, with nice sales and bulk order pricing going regularly. BTW, with tubes there, I think you need to specify if you want matched pairs, and it adds $5.
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« Last Edit: 08/18/16 at 17:39:13 by will »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #172 - 08/21/16 at 20:54:32
 
So, I purchased a set of 4PR Kimber cables.  They arrived yesterday.  I spent this morning installing them.  So far, honestly, not much of a difference.  However, isn't auditory memory the most frail memory of all?  I chose the Kimber because of their twisted pair technology which I believe makes sense.  For now, these cables are in congruence with the rest of the system.  I've had the system on for a couple of hours.  Let's see what I hear late at night which is when I listen the most.  Maybe after some burn-in time they'll bloom into something better than what I had which was Monster knock-off string.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #173 - 08/22/16 at 15:14:36
 
Speaking of Mullard's Will..... . I'm running Cryogenic E188CC/7308's...matched pair. Man, I love these tubes for inner detail and pure smooth beauty. Using my Telefunken's for phase splitter's. The Tele's will stay as inverter's while I will continue to tube roll the input position with Ediswan's, Tungsram's and the Mullard's.

I sold my ARC Pre! NO PRE's allowed in Listening Room anymore. ZDSD direct to ZMA = period. Kept my KS6063 Speaker cable. Wonderfully sublime with more air around instrument images and better dynamic's are allowed through too. The 6063's inner detail of instruments is all there too. I can't part with them!













Listening Room:


Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew

Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)/Sandwich weighted for Isolation

Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC

Shunyata Research Ztron Alpha Digital Power Cord to ZDSD
{Extremely Significant}

Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder
***************************************************************
W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the curb quite a few superb DAC'S!
***************************************************************
(@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192)


WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030


Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
~BIASED at *60* mA~
(NOS/Platinum/Mullard E188CC/7308's in my A12 an B12 Input positions Cryo Pair~NOS/Platinum/Telefunken E88CC for Inverter Tubes~NOS RCA 0A3's & New Quad of Tube Depot Stealth/Tung-Sol KT66's)
ZMA adjusted at 20% to 30-40% max ~ from 0 Gain


***************************************************
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades
***************************************************


Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)
.....from 8ohm Taps






Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)


XLO Pro Power Cord to ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport and ZDSD, Regenerated/*120*~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output)



NOS Platinum Tube Rotations in my ZMA,

(matched pairs/from Upscale Audio/Kevin):

(Germany) Telefunken E88CC ~ 1 pair
(Great Britain) Mullard 7308/E188CC ~  2 pair (both pair Cryogenic)
(US/Great Britain) Ediswan CV2492/6922 ~ 2 pair (one pair Cryogenic)
(Hungary) Tungsram 6922/E88CC ~ 1 pair
(Hungary) Tungsram PCC88/7DJ8 ~ 1 pair
(Russian) Cryoset 6N23N/P-EB ~ 2 pair  
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« Last Edit: 08/22/16 at 15:20:35 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #174 - 09/21/16 at 16:44:36
 
Tough to take my Mullard's out of the Input positions. They are so sweet and Tone Rich. However, it was time today to put the NOS/Platinum ~ Tungsram PCC88/7DJ8's in. What a wonderful pair these are! A little deeper on the soundstage and tightness of image with superb Timbre. Very, very nice. ....I think it is worth buying the best (NOS/Plat)....to maximize your 7500 potential + hours per pair.

All else equal as listed above........(except Tungsram's are now in for a month +).

Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
~BIASED at *60* mA~
(NOS/Platinum/Tungsram PCC88/7DJ8's in my A12 an B12 Input positions~NOS/Platinum/Telefunken E88CC for Inverter Tubes~NOS RCA 0A3's & New Quad of Tube Depot Stealth/Tung-Sol KT66's)
ZMA adjusted at 20% to 30-40% max ~ from 0 Gain

Enjoy.
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« Last Edit: 09/21/16 at 16:46:21 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #175 - 09/21/16 at 16:56:10
 

I need power tubes - your bump of this thread made me check Tube Depot to see what they have, and I stumbled into this:

https://www.tubedepot.com/products/eat-kt88-diamond-power-vacuum-tube-matched-qu...

I see that JJ has some "Black Sable" 6L6 I've never seen before.

Almost looks like a resurgence of higher end tubes now that NOS seems to be disappearing and/or so expensive.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #176 - 09/21/16 at 17:13:24
 
Wow! NOS Plat 6922 tube types are a bargain compared to those Diamond KT88's....did not catch those before. I wait for Tube Depots 10% off email and then look around through their site/it has been awhile.... .

I did get 22 months on my original quad from Steve/KT66's. This new Quad went in NOV/2015.....so should get 22 months total on them. I'm enjoying rotating NOS Input Tubes..... .

I am tempted and eventually will try a nice Quad of 6L6 someday.
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« Last Edit: 09/21/16 at 17:20:27 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #177 - 09/21/16 at 18:02:23
 
LR, I can't find per search the thread/post (I can't remember the tube number's). But, Steve mentioned an output quad he was using in the ZMA.  A quad not listed for use I think/but he was using? Do you recall this/read it or seen it. Maybe Steve will mention here.



......I want to add: the Telefunken E88CC's pair, are a LOCK for my Phase Inverter tube positions period. They are so damn clean/neutral and allow each pair of my Input 6922 tubes to shine in there own light....it is mesmerizing. I swear no hyperbole....just joy man.
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« Last Edit: 09/21/16 at 18:44:20 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #178 - 09/22/16 at 00:24:56
 
Eric, if you're still looking for tubes, let me recommend these that sound fantastic in the Torii, and I bet would sound equally good in the ZMA. They're only 50 or 60 a matched quad, which is a good price indeed. I was skeptical but good ears here liked these and I tried some and after burn in they are very balanced, detailed but sweet.

http://www.cryoset.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=335&osCsid=d9c6f1f7d...
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #179 - 09/22/16 at 04:03:04
 
At that price I'm going to try those. I like Cryoset....have my password right here. I bought a matched quad of 6N23N/P-EB's and rotate a pair in the inputs. Gives me Steve's original signature. Cool.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #180 - 09/23/16 at 01:12:10
 
I have 2 quads of these that I bought from a Ukrainian seller on eBay.  I keep putting them back in my ZMA after trying my Gold Lion KT66s again (for about the third time).  I think Lon used the right word when he described them as "sweet."  Cryoset's price is really good and I think I'll stock up on another quad from them.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #181 - 09/23/16 at 15:56:02
 
"LR, I can't find per search the thread/post (I can't remember the tube number's). But, Steve mentioned an output quad he was using in the ZMA.  A quad not listed for use I think/but he was using? Do you recall this/read it or seen it. Maybe Steve will mention here. "

I don't recall seeing that - I'd like to know what they are. I have a used pair of Gold Lion KT-66 as an emergency backup in case my stock KT-66 fail, but they are noticeably tired. Sound passable, but not as dynamic or involving. I find myself turning up the volume more than usual.

"Eric, if you're still looking for tubes, let me recommend these that sound fantastic in the Torii, and I bet would sound equally good in the ZMA. They're only 50 or 60 a matched quad, which is a good price indeed. I was skeptical but good ears here liked these and I tried some and after burn in they are very balanced, detailed but sweet.

http://www.cryoset.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=335&osCsid=d9c6f1f7d...."

Those are neat, and the price is right...but 6L6 almost feels like a downgrade compared to KT-66. I'd have to see what Steve says - they could be a good holdover till I can find and afford some nice KT-66.

I'm taking a break from playing with input tubes till I get my power tubes replaced. I don't feel I'm really hearing what's capable. But those $11 tubes mentioned in another thread have my attention.

Lot's to ask Steve about during Zenfest if I can get a few minutes with him. I try not to bother him much during Zenfest since I have much easier access to him than most the rest of the year. Besides, I've learned not to tug on Superman's cape when he's busy.  :)
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #182 - 09/23/16 at 16:04:27
 
Do you think that quad of output tubes might be the 807s that he is shown as tubes in his Rachael drawer?

I was addicted to KT-66 too for a few years. . . and I do know what you mean. At least in the Torii these coin-based and the JJ 6CA7 engage the "Hazen Grid Mod" and after a few years not listening to tubes that do do so I welcome this change whole-heartedly. I recently put KT-66 back in for a spell (TAD) and I took them out. Too much like Mrs. Butterworth's syrup compared to real syrup from a maple area town. I'll send you a new quad to try if you want, I have one from overseas via ebay sitting around, and two new cryo'd sets from cryoset.com and one broken in cryo'd set, all on hand.

I'm back to loving the cryo'd JJ 6CA7s. I have not yet really had the longevity problems others have and really like the sound.
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« Last Edit: 09/23/16 at 16:10:01 by Lon »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #183 - 09/23/16 at 16:08:32
 

I'd love to try them! I'll cover your shipping and promise to return them with few hours on them.

Thanks Lon!
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #184 - 09/23/16 at 16:12:19
 
Cool. Email me or PM me your address again and I'll get some out to you.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #185 - 09/23/16 at 18:11:03
 
Great info guys (Lon, Archie & Eric). Eric, please do.....ask Steve, has he found a premium pair of KT66's worth paying more for?

I feel the same Eric.....is it a downgrade to go to 6L6's or 6CA7's (especially in Power/when I want it)? I'm so enjoying my input tube rotation that manipulates the Tung-Sol reissue KT66's...... .

Eric, are you using the original stock KT66's from Steve (and obviously you don't care for the Lions)? That is my impression/you wrote. I got 22 months out of my quad from Steve. When I noticed a hint of degradation....I got a new fresh quad....now 10 months in.  

I also replaced my stock 0A3's with NOS RCA about 3 months ago.

NOS/Platinum/Ediswan CV2492/6922 in my A12 an B12 Input positions Cryogenic Pair~NOS/Platinum/Telefunken E88CC for Inverter Tubes~NOS RCA 0A3's & New Quad of Tube Depot Stealth/Tung-Sol KT66's

......yeah   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes, I only had my Tungsram PCC88/7DJ8's in for two days! But, I had the itch to put my Cryo pair of Ediswan's in after having my gold pin Mullard's in for a month (speaking of SWEET input to the KT66's~the Mull's RULE.....had them in for over a month straight). I'm rockin' right now to the Edi's!  
......don't get me wrong: the Tungsram's are very good...they just need more burn in....and I wanted to pound a few tunes today....and the Edi's are the ones for that!
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« Last Edit: 09/23/16 at 19:10:13 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #186 - 09/23/16 at 18:44:51
 
Da, I'm moving to fast today. Lon, yes, maybe it was the 807.... . All be damned if I can find where he wrote he used it in the ZMA?! Maybe I should search again....slow down a n d read Larry....... .

Plus, look forward to your impressions of the tubes Lon is sending you Eric and picking Steve's brains/KT66, 6L6 and 6CA7's....... .

......and the 807 if that was it in the ZMA?

....just say to Steve....Stone saw it in a dream or did you experiment with an output quad in the ZMA not listed......?   Shocked Shocked Shocked
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« Last Edit: 09/23/16 at 18:47:06 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #187 - 09/23/16 at 20:48:33
 

Larry, I do have trouble keeping up with your posts sometimes. LOL

Yes, I'm on my original KT66 - Steve said they were tired when I brought my ZMA in for a repair last year when a vintage Pre-amp Tube popped taking some resistors out with it. I've not used my ZMA as much this year as I did last year, but they are the same tubes.

The Gold Lion KT66 I picked up (used but good quad) are OK. I got them cheap because they were well used, but to my ear they just didn't have as much dynamic punch as the stock T-S.  I should probably swap them in again and see how they fair when compared to really tired Tung-Sol.

Either way, preamp and inverter tubes have Wow'd me when swapping, while the KT66 are either Good or OK, nothing's really wow'd me yet on the power tube side. That could just be how this amp is - especially with the big caps helping with dynamics. It's part of why I've been focusing on room acoustics again. The ZMA is consistently good, and so is my DirectStream, so I can focus on other stuff.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #188 - 09/23/16 at 20:55:12
 
You'll have the Russian coin-based (cryo'd) to try out on Monday.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #189 - 09/27/16 at 17:13:04
 
Cryogenic NOS Platinum Mullard 7308/E188CC's back in my ZMA inputs.
The inner timbre and overall sweetness of presentation with dynamic's when called upon.....is my Tube.

Hope to read soon LR, about the 6L6's Lon sent you........... .

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #190 - 09/27/16 at 17:35:50
 
The 6CA7's Lon sent you........I meant.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #191 - 09/27/16 at 17:49:09
 

I figured that's what you mean. I'm eager to hear them myself. Now that I think about it, I might need to ask Steve where to dial them in on the Bias Adjustment - then fine tune by ear.

I still have some diffuser builds in the works - little by little trying to make my listening space better.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #192 - 09/27/16 at 18:00:52
 
Good point about the Bias point(s) for them. 50 or a smidge above might be the deal on these. I would check with the Zen Master.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #193 - 09/28/16 at 15:01:15
 
"I find on the ZMA, preamp tubes have a bigger impact than swapping power tubes. At least with the KT-66 tubes I've tested in my amp (not really anything rare, expensive, or exotic)".

.....I agree LR. (You mentioned the above in the Shuguang 6H1N Thread).

Also, KT66 has higher filament draw than a 6L6 or 6CA7, and can handle more power. In audio application, KT66 are smoother sounding with great texture.

Non-the-less, I still want to hear your impressions of the 6CA7's. I should just order a quad of the Cryoset coin based Cryogenic 6L6's and the Cryogenic JJ 6CA7's you're trying out. However, I think my money would be better spent on adding to my collection of the best NOS 6922 tube types.

But anyway, still pick Steve's brains too, about the best KT66's he has tried. For example: GEC, Sylvania's, VT-79 KT8C and of course RCA's....if he has tried?
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #194 - 09/28/16 at 15:33:38
 
Larry, I didn't send him any 6CA7s, I sent him Reflector 6P3S-E (cryo'd, broken in) which is more like a 6L6 (though doesn't sound quite like 6L6s I've used before).

In the Torii Mk III every tube makes a big difference! It can be maddening!
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« Last Edit: 09/28/16 at 16:08:20 by Lon »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #195 - 09/28/16 at 15:50:37
 
Oh, cool on the one's you sent him. Very good to read about those/when LR posts (since we have ZMA's). Archie has a ZMA too/with the other 6L6's.....you suggested and he loves them. So, I think you're right Lon....they have a good shot of being different and musical and to our tastes in the ZMA......(all mentioned in the last page or two).

Not to contradict what I wrote (my above post/#193).....but, yes, I want to try some different power output tubes with my stash of input and phase inverter's.

Including the one's you're mentioning, ....I'm thinking about going for these treasures:
http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/KT66-Tube-Types/Shuguang-Treasure-KT66-Z
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« Last Edit: 09/28/16 at 15:52:41 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #196 - 09/28/16 at 15:56:01
 
Those are too rich for my blood. With the flexibility of the Torii's tonal controls I don't feel I can justify this sort of expense when I can get fantastic sound (with the Hazen Grid mod in as well) with the cryo'd quads of coin-based and the JJ 6CA7 for 60 and 80 dollars a quad!
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #197 - 09/28/16 at 16:12:46
 
Yeah, I'm staying away from them. To expensive. Especially, when I have had success with NOS 6922 tube types and the Tung-Sol KT66's and could just stay pat and be content.

Curiousness and affordability of ~ I'm going to go ahead and order the 6P3S-E / 6L6's from Cryoset....like I said I was thinking of doing a few days back. Your recommendation, Archie's and I hope Eric digs them too. I need to try them for myself anyway.

I figure these 6P3S-E and a good affordable quad of EL34's, or the 6CA7 JJ's Cryogenic from Cryoset.    My curiousness should be satisfied and I might be surprised (with different combo's of my 6922 tube types)!
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« Last Edit: 09/28/16 at 16:15:18 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #198 - 09/28/16 at 16:49:01
 
Stone, I hope you like the 6P3S-E tubes.  I still use the stock input tubes so we may not get the same results.  I received a new quad from Cryoset yesterday.  I haven't given them a listen yet.  They are so reasonable priced it's hard to get over.   Cheesy
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #199 - 09/28/16 at 19:17:23
 
I got home from a road trip for work and found this little box from Lon (thanks my friend). Popped the tubes in, and since I wasn't sure where to bias them I decided to start on the low side till I heard from Steve. So I dialed them in at 45ma and gave them a listen.

Right off the bat I didn't like them all - I was listening to my music collection through ROON -> Bridge II, DS DAC, Balanced to ZMA to MG944.  I was using the ROON "Discover" feature where it selects stuff for you and I picked some CD quality Folk/Rock/Americana - I was flipping through tunes figuring maybe it was just a few albums that were recorded poorly as they all sounded detailed, but a little strained.

Then about 20 minutes into this clicking through tunes, suddenly the sound started to bloom - I guess the tubes and amp just needed to warm up a bit. I've never really paid close attention to what the Hazen mod is supposed to do, but I could clearly hear lots of micro-detail in the midrange, holographically so. The bass wasn't exciting in any way, and I seemed to have lost some of my treble extension I love so much.  The upper mids sounded a bit strident still after the tubes warmed up, and I was being called to dinner, so I powered everything off and figured I'd give them another try once Steve suggests a safe bias point. Since these aren't my tubes I don't want to experiment too much with bias, but I know Steve tries to dial in the bias on these amps to be in a generally safe range so it's unlikely to accidentally damage tubes.  Still, I'd rather be safe with someone elses stuff.

Hopefully when I get them dialed in better I'll get a little more bloom and dynamics. One thing for sure, it made me realize how tired my KT66 are, and I think I'm already seeing why people love this Hazen Grid mod.

I'll post a follow up after I hear from Steve and get more time on these tubes.
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« Last Edit: 09/28/16 at 19:19:20 by Lonely Raven »  
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #200 - 09/28/16 at 19:21:51
 
Glad they made it there okay, sure was the perfect box to use. I found them to not have enough bass at first too. They do deepen with some use, and the bass control on my Torii Mk III makes it very easy to goose more out, as the treble control makes it easy to balance out the high frequencies as well. In the Torii these are a real bargain. I hope they prove to be so in the ZMA as well when biased in properly and warmed up.
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« Last Edit: 09/28/16 at 19:22:20 by Lon »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #201 - 09/29/16 at 16:21:15
 
Hi Archie. I will get the 6P3S-E 6L6's (thanks LR, for your first impressions) and try with stock 6N23P's. I still like the 23P tubes. They are just not my favorites. My Mullard's peel back more layer's/detail/and timbre (inputs), yet are still warm and musical.

Frankly, the Treble of the Mullard 7308/E188CC/Cryogenic is to die for, without dynamic loss/sacrifice.

The single most influence are the input tubes in my opinion. I am using my Telefunken's as my phase inverter's.... .

NOS Platinum Input Tube Rotations in my ZMA,
(matched pairs/from Upscale Audio/Kevin {except for Russian Tubes}):

(Germany) Telefunken E88CC ~ 1 pair = are locked in as phase splitter's.

In order that I love:
(Great Britain) Mullard 7308/E188CC ~  2 pair (both pair Cryogenic)
(US/Great Britain) Ediswan CV2492/6922 ~ 2 pair (one pair Cryogenic)
(Hungary) Tungsram 6922/E88CC ~ 1 pair
(Russia) Cryoset 6N23N/P-EB ~ 4 pair (2 pair from Steve)
(Hungary) Tungsram PCC88/7DJ8 ~ 1 pair.



Knowing this, it is time for my next round of personally knowing what the 6P3S-E 6L6's and a good quad of EL34's (deciding which ones) might contribute/WITH my input tube rotation's. I realize, I will give up some power with these output power quad's/quite okay.  

Then, it will be "a wrap" for me......with a good tube stash/Rolling.

I will report back too. Keep your next impression's coming LR.







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« Last Edit: 09/29/16 at 17:31:50 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #202 - 09/29/16 at 16:59:00
 
LR, (or Lon)

Which tubes did Lon send you?
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #203 - 09/29/16 at 17:05:46
 
Reply #194....Lon sent LR.

PS-if the two new quad's I have coming (EL34 & 6P3S-E 6L6's) don't impress me/KT66's win (meaning ~ if I don't care to rotate them and exclusively stay with KT66's)....I will sell them in the Classified's here, before posting in AudiogoN.
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« Last Edit: 09/29/16 at 17:15:34 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #204 - 09/29/16 at 17:17:47
 
I mentioned this several times.;) A quad of these with about 200 hours on them:

http://www.cryoset.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=335&osCsid=5582737b5...
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #205 - 09/29/16 at 17:43:39
 
I've not heard back from Steve on what he recommends baising the 6P3S-E at. So I reread the ZMA manual (RTFM!) and he says to basically dial tubes in at 50, so that's what I did. I let the amp warm up for over an hour as I was struggling with my ROON server. (long story short) Roon released a version that runs on my Synology NAS, though they recommend more power, RAM, and a Solid State Disk Drive since ROON is very power and speed hungry. My Synology wasn't cutting it so I made some tweaks to try and make it run smoother - the music was occasionally hiccuping when I'm rattling the NAS drives, and the Android interface was lagging. So it took over an hour for me make changes and reinstall. Looks like I might have to just bite the bullet and build a ROON specific Windows Core PC. Still, it's a lot easier to use than Foobar2000 and all those tweaks that go along with it. Roon via Bridge II is super-simple (and it's nice to see the DirectStream Display say DOP DSD64 without me puzzling over settings)

Anyways, tubes were idling while I was doing the software, and I jumped into the Folk/Rock category and just pressed play. I was pretty quickly engrossed, and enjoying letting the software discover artists and tracks it considered Folk Rock. Which then inspired me to run down to the garage/shop and grab some of my Styro-fractal diffusers and place them around the livingroom - moving some furniture and just tweaking the sound a bit. It wasn't long before I had this huge soundstage with lots of vocal and guitar (midrange) detail.  

It was then I remembered these weren't my tubes but the ones Lon had sent me.  :D

So I sat down in the sweet spot and opened up my ears as objectively as I can. I think one of the few listening talents I have (that Steve has helped cultivate in me) is to shut off what I think and just speak about what I hear; or just "go with my first (gut instinct) thought" as it's usually right.

Pretty much the same feeling - bass just pretty much not there. Mid-range detail and microdynamics are pretty much holographic, which is just perfect for the genre I was listening to. High frequency extension that I love so much was missing. (Edit to Add) The strident upper mids seemed to have mellowed out as I totally forgot about them - letting the tubes warm up and giving them a little more juice probably took care of that)

With the styro-diffuser fort I pretty much built for myself the wall of sound was HUGE, but not deep, and except for the mids I didn't have that holographic (sharp) detail of each instrument taking up space in my room, nor being able to hear the room that the recordings were made in like I do when I'm at Palomino's place. But that's all more the fault of my room rather than the tubes or gear at all. I know my gear resolves, I just need to build a good room around it. Still, this was very involving and I listened for four hours straight last night...and I've not done that in over a year.

Thanks again, Lon. This was very much appreciated. These tubes would be nice to have that holographic midrange, but I miss the high frequency extension and bass that (IMHO) makes the music more full and involving. I'm betting I could live with these tubes better if I could figure out how to integrate my 21" subwoofer with 2000 watts behind it, Crossed from 60Hz down.


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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #206 - 09/29/16 at 17:54:34
 
Interesting. Seems different than with my Torii. In the Torii these tubes definitely don't lack high end energy, although I am in a furnished living room and not a treated room.

I also get plenty of bass when I play with the bass controls. It's not a perfect room but it's one of the best I've ever had as a listening room. So I guess I'm lucky.

Listen to them all you want and no need to hurry them back to me.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #207 - 09/29/16 at 18:04:50
 

The ZMA is very neutral, IMHO. And without any tone adjustments, you get out what you put in. I think that's why Steve, Larry, and I all lean to KT66 - they seem to cover the most ground pretty neutrally (again IMHO).

As for high frequency extension - I should clarify: I think I'm a bit more sensitive to really high frequency extension. That's part of what I loved about the original little Zen amp - those tubes Steve uses go up to 100khz if I recall, and it brought out so much harmonic detail and spacial cues that I found involving. That harmonic detail is also something I think the ZMA does as well, but again, in a very WYSIWYG way. And Lon, I know you don't dig an abundance of treble - so our preferences are different.

This weekend I'm going to swap back and forth between my tired KT66 and these 6P3S-E and see if my feelings still hold true. I'll see if I can dig out my used Golden Lion (emergency backup) KT66 tubes and make this a 3-way death match. LOL

Oh yeah, so I'm in bed and my girlfriend comes home from teaching her dance class - "so what's with the foam things all over the living room...what are they doing there?"
Me - "doing the things that styro-foamy things do" and I fell right back asleep.  ;D
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #208 - 09/29/16 at 18:10:10
 
Well, have fun with them. Too bad they aren't as effective for you as they are for me as the price is excellent.

I like the KT66 a lot but I'm not giving up that Hazen Grid thang for a long spell.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #209 - 09/29/16 at 20:21:32
 
hey Lon....

I was just perusing through this thread and read about the Reflector 6P3S-E/6L6GC/5881 tubes at Cryoset.  I think you and I have very similar Torii's.  I have JJ 6CA7's(2 sets), Tung-Sol EL34b's from Decware, GL KT-66's.  About any of them can produce "acceptable" sound when paired with appropriate input tubes.  But I "optimize" based on what source/cables/preamp I'm using from time to time.  Ain't tube equipment "flexibility" great?  But it can be a "curse" too!  :)
I did however "settle" a year or so ago on NOS RCA 5U4G's, OA3's and OC2's.

Anyhow... a guy just can't have enough tubes to roll can he?  Especially when they're this cheap!  So I just ordered some of these too.  I couldn't find anything "bad" about the 'E' version of these in print anywhere - they must be at least relatively good sounding or people would be complaining.  I saw that LR didn't like them in his ZMA.... interesting - though that amp is a "different" beast than the Torii.  I've had my Torii III w/Jupiters for over three years now.  I haven't heard anything driving crossover-less, wide-banders, that is better yet to my ears.  Now... for more conventional, multi-driver speakers with passive crossover's... I have heard better synergy than my Torii.  I guess that's why I have 6 amps and 4 preamps.  I really, really need to get to "one" setup.  I'm hoping my visit to Zenfest this year will help me become more decisive and get me settled on one setup.  I realize we "philes" be a fickle bunch - but I still have hope..!!!  ;D
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #210 - 09/29/16 at 20:23:03
 
Quote:
I like the KT66 a lot but I'm not giving up that Hazen Grid thang for a long spell.


I do see what the allure of that is now. That's why I'm going to do a death match between types of tubes this weekend. Hell, if I really wanted to I could probably pull tubes out of my guitar amps to add more contestants to the death match.  LOL. Two problems with that is I typically don't use guitar amps over 50 watts (which means only pairs of tubes) and I doubt they are sorted and matched as well as audiophile tubes.  I have been curious what my current favorite (hard rock/metal)  KT77 tubes sound like in the ZMA...but I'm pretty sure I only have a pair.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #211 - 09/29/16 at 20:26:44
 
Quote:
I saw that LR didn't like them in his ZMA.... interesting


I wouldn't say I don't like them...I had a great listening session last night. I'd say I don't like them as much as KT66.

Now that I'm thinking about guitar amps, I'm wondering if these 6P3S-E would sound good in guitar amps.  :)

(not that I've played guitar at all lately - ugh)
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #212 - 09/29/16 at 20:34:36
 
Why I love the Torii is I can make almost any quad of tubes compatible work tonally with the HR-1s with the tone controls and bias and speaker settings, and the differences are in soundstage, imaging and texture, and damn. . . I think there are three or four types that work well and it's hard to prefer one to another. . . the Hazen Grid thing is something I miss when it's not there though. So I think I'll stick to those tubes and the JJ 6CA7 for now. KT66 are seductive but lack a certain something.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #213 - 09/29/16 at 20:41:27
 
Quote:
KT66 are seductive but lack a certain something.


I think I understand that lack now. Let's see how I feel this weekend after doing some tube swapping.

Wow, I just realized a week from tomorrow is Zenfest!
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #214 - 09/29/16 at 20:43:10
 
maddog, yes we have nearly identical amps with the same caps bought about the same time. Love this amp. . . you can have all my guns (oh wait, don't have or want any) but this will be pried only from my cold dead hand (at least that is how I've felt for a while.)

I think you'll like these tubes. They take a while to bloom. But when they do it's a very cool thing.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #215 - 09/30/16 at 01:31:16
 
Lon, thanks for the clarification.  That's what I though but with all of the number and letter designations I got confused!   Tongue

LR, I am not bass shy at all with these tubes but I am also running a very different front end than you, including a CSP3.  As far as high frequency extension goes, I like what I hear.  Or more to the point, I like what I CAN hear!   Undecided  (I need a deaf guy emoticon.)
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« Last Edit: 09/30/16 at 01:38:33 by Archie »  
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #216 - 09/30/16 at 02:56:46
 
So Lon. I think you are saying that 6L6 types use the Hazen mod? Or is it specifically the 6P3S-Es? Is this correct?

I have not used the 6P3S-Es in my MKIV in quite a while, but liked a lot about them when I did...clear and fresh with some sweet richness if I recall....sort of between EL34 Types and KT66s...the openness and richness of EL34s but with pleasantly softer high-highs, and some of the tight body tonal density of KT66s. Sound right? I need to put some in and check them out again.



Stone, The 807 talk was a Rachael thread.

http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1474193899/0
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #217 - 09/30/16 at 05:17:19
 
I don't know about all 6L6 Will, but I read on this board that these do access the Hazen Grid Mod and they certainly sound that way to me.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #218 - 09/30/16 at 16:28:51
 
my quad of Reflector 6P3S-E from Cryoset are due to arrive Monday.  Hopefully I'll have a chance to give them at least a little listening time before heading off to Zenfest next Friday morning.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #219 - 10/14/16 at 16:19:34
 
Decided to hold off on the 6L6 power output tubes.

I'm in bliss with my favorite tube compliment of:

~NOS/Platinum/Mullard E188CC/7308's in my A12 an B12 Input positions Cryogenic
~NOS/Platinum/Telefunken E88CC for Inverter Tubes
~NOS RCA 0A3's
~& New Quad of Tube Depot/Tung-Sol KT66's.

Single capping my Adagio's is probably the best thing I have ever done (18 months ago).


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++ ZDSD DAC, kicked to the Curb: Auralic Vega, PS Audio PWT & PWD, PS Audio Direct Stream DAC, Chord Qute, NAD M51 (twice) & Schiit Yggdrasil.


~NOS Platinum Tubes from Upscale Audio/Kevin:

(Great Britain) Mullard 7308/E188CC ~  2 pair (both pair Cryogenic)
(Germany) Telefunken E88CC ~ 1 pair
(US/Great Britain) Ediswan CV2492/6922 ~ 2 pair (one pair Cryogenic)
(Hungary) Tungsram 6922/E88CC ~ 1 pair
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« Last Edit: 10/14/16 at 16:20:10 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #220 - 10/14/16 at 17:15:44
 
Quote:
Stone, The 807 talk was a Rachael thread.

http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1474193899/0



After talking with Steve, he said I probably wouldn't mind the 807, and they aren't too expensive to experiment with, *after* you purchase the socket adapters to make them work.  So I have a set of adapters coming on the slow-boat from China, and a quad of Westinghouse 807 from Canada.


I've also stumbled into a great deal on some real GEC KT66, but I don't have $400 to grab them. Hell, even if I didn't like them, I could easily flip them for twice what I'd into them. So I'm trying to schedule some side jobs to see if I can scratch up $400 in Pay Pal to grab them.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #221 - 10/14/16 at 17:47:18
 
Quote:
So Lon. I think you are saying that 6L6 types use the Hazen mod? Or is it specifically the 6P3S-Es? Is this correct?


I just looked up the tube data on the 6P3S, and it looks like pins 1 and 8 are internally connected, just like on the 6L6, so they *don't* work with the Hazen Grid Mod.

I'll double check by finding another tube data chart, but they seem to be internally wired like 6L6.

Here - I found an image describing what I'm talking about:



On EL34, the Suppressor Grid goes to Pin 1 on the tube and nothing else. The Hazen Mod puts a small cap between Pin 1 and Pin 8 (cathode) to do it's magic.  Most of the common audio tubes we use have an internal connection between the grid and cathode, so that cap does nothing when we put those tubes in.  The 6L6 is this way, and so it appears the 6P3S-E are as well since they are basically a Russian 6L6.

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« Last Edit: 10/14/16 at 20:26:53 by Lonely Raven »  
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #222 - 10/14/16 at 17:59:08
 
Thanks Eric. I wasn't sure, but believe I have read here that they do utilize the Grid. Whatever is happening, in my amp there's a wider level of detail so to speak than with the KT66. This is especially evident when you take out the KT66 and put these in, which led me to believe perhaps the mod was in play. I don't want to do without it now.
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« Last Edit: 10/14/16 at 18:11:20 by Lon »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #223 - 10/14/16 at 18:03:46
 
Tonight I'll take a multi-meter to the tubes you let me borrow and see if I get a connection between pins 1 and 8. And I'll double check this with a pair of EL34 from one of my guitar amps.

There is a chance that the tube data from these Russian tubes is wrong. People could simply be cutting and pasting pin-outs for 6L6 when internally they could be open like the EL34. Steve would know for sure I'm betting, but I'll see if I can meter it myself.
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« Last Edit: 10/14/16 at 18:05:12 by Lonely Raven »  
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #224 - 10/14/16 at 18:58:38
 
Thanks, would be nice to know.

I'm really digging the JJ 6CA7s now. Working great for me.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #225 - 10/14/16 at 21:30:29
 
Cool experiment LR curious to see how it turns out. I love my RFT EL-34 in my Torii. I think the Shugang 6ca7t (i believe) are also sleepers in the Torii. I prefer both those types over the KT66 I've tried. To me the KT66 although clear and tight were just a little sterile for my liking.

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #226 - 10/14/16 at 22:10:16
 
RFT EL34 are also in my top 5 guitar amp tubes. They absolutely rock.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #227 - 10/15/16 at 18:50:54
 
Will... anybody who's interesed

I got my 6PS3-E's from Cryoset right before Zenfest, but am just now getting around to plugging them in.

If the CCE/Hazen Grid Mod requires "pin 1" to function, then it DOES NOT work with these 6PS3-E's, because they don't even have a Pin 1 out at all.

Only have about an hour on them, nothing stands out, as being extraordinarily bad or good yet.  They're certainly not "bad".  Considering their cost, one might even adjudge them to be a "great value" even right out of the box.  
But I wouldn't expect the inherent sonic character of a brand new tube to reveal itself in the first hour of use either.....
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #228 - 10/15/16 at 21:08:25
 
Thanks for verifying the "non-Hazen Grid Mod" status.

I like those tubes, especially for the price. With the controls on the Torii I can make them sing, and they have a lot of detail to offer. I'll be interested to hear what you say after they break in. My cryo'd quad took quite some time to be all they could be.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #229 - 10/16/16 at 04:14:45
 
Quote:
If the CCE/Hazen Grid Mod requires "pin 1" to function, then it DOES NOT work with these 6PS3-E's, because they don't even have a Pin 1 out at all.


It's funny, I'm sitting here with my Multi-Meter. I dug up an old pair of EL34, my tired KT66, and Lons 6PS3....and I grab the 6PS3 and...no pin. LOL

That said, if I jam my Fluke multi-meter's probe into where pin 1 should be, it seems to have internal connectivity with Pin 5. So that's a non-starter as well.

I wish there was a goot KT tube that worked with the Hazen Mod. I think that would get me more of the holographic sound I'm looking for.

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« Last Edit: 10/16/16 at 04:18:42 by Lonely Raven »  
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #230 - 10/16/16 at 04:23:35
 
Yes, that would be good; doesn't seem to be the case though.

So far the best compromise for me is the JJ 6CA7.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #231 - 10/16/16 at 20:09:49
 
Lon, did you get those JJ 6CA7 tubes from Cryoset?  Just to clarify, they are an exact replacement for the EL34 and take advantage of the Hazen Grid mod?
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #232 - 10/17/16 at 00:57:16
 
Yes.
Yes. Not all 6CA7s do take advantage of the Hazen Grid Mod, these do.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #233 - 10/18/16 at 20:00:41
 
Hmmm, real KT66, milspec even!

https://tubedepot.com/products/kt66-gec

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #234 - 10/18/16 at 20:39:33
 
Oh, so tempting. I saw these a few days back. Stop it LR. 😫 Pleasssse stop!  LOL

Look forward to your 807 impressions when you get those adapters..... .
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« Last Edit: 10/18/16 at 20:58:22 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #235 - 10/18/16 at 21:00:34
 
I have an itchy mouse finger and I might just use it! LOL


..... Then I looked at bills and that drop kicked me back into reality.
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« Last Edit: 10/19/16 at 14:54:42 by stone_of_tone »  

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Lonely Raven
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #236 - 10/19/16 at 17:04:47
 
I'm so broke, I can't even pay attention....so yeah, I feel ya.

And I had a chance to pick up these tubes for $400 and totally missed out on it.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #237 - 11/03/16 at 19:38:44
 
LR, how is it going with the 807's and the adapter's? How about anymore thoughts on the tubes Lon sent you?

I'm in the Camp....Steve chose the reissue Tung-Sol KT 66's for the ZMA for a reason. They do cover it all; top highs to lows and midrange.

IMO, NOS input and inverter tubes derive better sonic pleasures. Not to say, I won't some day roll some different power output tubes in my ZMA-just, not right now.  I'm having to much fun with the inputs and inverter's.

~NOS/Platinum/Mullard E188CC/7308's in my A12 an B12 Input positions Cryogenic
~NOS/Platinum/Telefunken E88CC/6922 for Inverter Tubes
~NOS RCA 0A3's
~& Quad of Tung-Sol KT66's (almost 12 months in on 2nd quad ~ original quad I retired at 22 months old)

.....had my Ediswan's in for 10 days....but missed my Mullard's in the inputs.......... . Edi's might have a little more slam....but they fall just a little short of the magic of the Mull's....on up in the spectrum.

Looking forward to my MicroZOTL2.0 next week! I will put it through its paces for a couple weeks and see if it is as transparent, dynamic and micro subtle with bloom of timbre and soul, as has been reported.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #238 - 11/03/16 at 19:47:55
 

I haven't had a lot of time with any of the tubes lately - one of these nights when I'm not stuck doing projects till the wee hours, I plan on siting down with the amp warmed up and just go from tube sets to tube sets. Also, i can't swing it now, but I'm hoping to add some EL34 or JJ 6CA7 to the mix to see how the Hazen Mod sounds comparatively.

I've got:

Lon's Russian tubes
Used but decent Tung Sol KT66 (cryo)
Used but decent Golden Lion (cryo)
NOS (Canadian) Westinghouse 807 with Adapters
and my really, really tired stock Tung Sol KT66

If I can swing some Cryo JJ 6CA7 I think I could do a proper listen for all the options.

Offhand I will say that I'm currently back to the Tung Sol KT66 (newer set, not my tired stock). They aren't as refined at Lon's russian tubes or the 807, but the KT66 seem to cover a wider frequency and work well with the ZMAs neutrality.  Again, that's just offhand, but my gut impressions tend to be pretty on par.

Again it's making me wish there was a KT tube that used the Hazen Grid, i think that would be the best of both worlds.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #239 - 11/03/16 at 20:29:17
 
Cool.

I found room in my Christmas budget to me for the Linear Tube Audio ZOTL2.0 (no guarantee it's staying~15 day trial is fair~he asked to burn it in for me for 4 days~I said please do-then ship it to me).

I'm going to get a good quad of EL34's too. Heck, I did not know you can get the Hazen Grid mod mojo with them in our ZMA's? I did not think I was reading that correctly in the previous posts here?
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« Last Edit: 11/03/16 at 20:32:56 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #240 - 11/03/16 at 23:47:12
 
Okay, I read Steve's Hazen Grid Mod Paper from May 2009. I never sent my SE84CS in for the mod because I loved it just the way it was and was scared to change it.

Works in Triode and Pentode except Mini Torii.....

Makes sense, like the pentode Torii ll in the paper it is in the ZMA .....importance of the suppressor grid with the film cap mod/adjustment.....cool.

Less power with the EL34's.....worth checking it out though. When I mention power, you need more power for UL pentode... Not an issue for pentode run in Triode....thus my interest in the new UFO Mono's SE84 to own too.
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« Last Edit: 11/03/16 at 23:54:34 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #241 - 11/04/16 at 00:56:11
 
I recently found a good deal on a new cartridge that was a bit of an upgrade from my current cart -- sort of a next generation.  I've been preferring my Russian 6P3S-E tubes to the KT66 with my old cart but I found I liked the KT66s with the new.  As soon as I went back to my old cart I switched back to the Russian tubes.  So, maybe no surprise, but tube choice for me is source dependent.
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