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Ediswan 6922 (Read 47724 times)
Palomino
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #100 - 04/22/16 at 12:24:02
 
OK, the Mullard tubes have a little over 20 hours on them.  That may be a little soon to judge but I think I get their sound.  

I'll get right to the point and then explain.  The Mullards are better than the '74 Single Wire Silver shield 6n23ps - for me.

Both tubes are in the same weight class.  Both offer superb air and detail.  Both offer great soundstage, although I may tip this slightly in favor of the 6n23ps.  The Russian tubes also have tighter bass (so far) but the Mullards offer fuller bass.

What divides the two tubes is the liguidity of the midrange.  The 6n23ps are no midrange slouch, but the Mullards offer better "detailed liquidity."  To some, they may seem a little more laid back.  Keep in mind also that I am 95% digital playback.

Why this is better for me though is that I am running a single driver setup that can be strident on some tracks.  The Mullards smooth that over.  But don't get me wrong, its not syrupy.  It's just smooth AND detailed.  Very nice.  This makes them more musical for me.  It makes the non-strident tracks great and really takes the edge off those that are.

I will keep breaking them in and then when I get the replacement tube for my DOA '75 Single wire, silver shield I'll do another comparo.  That tube is supposed to be noticeably better than the '74.

Great tube Stone man.  I will not be selling.

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« Last Edit: 04/22/16 at 12:25:41 by Palomino »  

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stone_of_tone
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #101 - 04/22/16 at 14:15:00
 
Great to read Palomino. My same take on them in all aspects, as you mentioned.

When I want tighter, or a subjectively perceived lower bass....I go with my Ediswan pair from CSP3/outputs to Ediswan pair ZMA/inputs. The Edi's are no midrange slouch either, but the Mull's offer more detailed liguidity ....is so, so right! The Mullard bass is fuller, spot on. The bass with the Edi's and Mull's has definition and delineation. Owed to the tubes, Decware and room treatment to get it all right.

Yes, for me too, the way I have my Adagio's capped and crossed...discerning the difference between tubes is easy. I rarely have any stridency, with these driver's in the Adagio's and Tweeter's. Unless I grab some very early digital from my collection, circa 1983 to 1993..... .

My Tungsram's to Tungsram's, I'm still figuring out...they are not in right now.....no surprise the Mullard's are in. The Tung's might be a little more extended in the highs and are trying to do it all (Edi and Mull) combo it seems. Time will tell, when I get them back in. I like the Tung's very much.... .

I have a nice 3 double pair rotation (CSP3/outputs & ZMA/inputs): Edi's, Mull's and Tung's with my Telefunken CSP3 input tube. I even witnessed Mull's to Edi's....I need to witness that combo again. Keeping Mull's to Mull's, Edi' to Edi's or Tungsram's to Tungsram's.....seems the way to go though.

I hear you about the wife (haa)!  I will keep a lookout for any suspicious packages. I told my girlfriend this is it! I can't afford anymore. I'm just going to enjoy!  New NOS Platinum's = 7500 hours plus per pair....worth every penny!






Listening Room:


Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew

Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)/Sandwich weighted for Isolation

Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC

Shunyata Research Ztron Alpha Digital Power Cord to ZDSD
{Extremely Significant}

Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder
***************************************************************
W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the curb quite a few superb DAC'S!
***************************************************************
(@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192)

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps
(NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Input Tube~NOS/Platinum/E188CC 7308 Cryogenic Mullard's for Output Tubes & 5U4G-C Rectifier)
****************************************************
10 of 10 for Input tube & *9* of 10 voltage for Output tubes
Volume adjustment usage at 25% to 55% from 0
****************************************************

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
~BIASED at *60* mA~
(NOS/Platinum/E188CC 7308 Cryogenic Mullard's in my A12 an B12 positions~Cryoset 6H23N-EB's for Inverter Tubes~JAN Sylvania 0A3's & New Quad of Tube Depot Stealth/Tung-Sol KT66's)
ZMA adjusted at 20%, 25 to 30% max, from 0
Some Tube inputs, 40 to 45% max, from 0


***************************************************
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades
***************************************************

Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)
.....from 8ohm Taps




Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)


XLO Pro Power Cords to CSP3 an ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport, ZDSD an CSP3, Regenerated/*122*~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output)
***************************************************************************
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« Last Edit: 04/22/16 at 18:06:51 by stone_of_tone »  

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stone_of_tone
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #102 - 04/22/16 at 16:16:55
 
As a music lover and a fan, I would be remiss not to mention Prince. He was loved in the Twin Cities and was approachable....to contrary belief.

This past Saturday he was riding his bicycle, went to the Electric Fetus in Mpls, for Record Day Saturday to just stop in and chat with the owner. Tuesday night, he was at the Dakota for Lizz Wright.

Last Saturday, and not out of the ordinary party at Paisley Park. Also, accessible and a lot of fun.  

I'm glad HE WAS HOME, and being the local guy around town this week.
I LOVE when he brought the FUNK. Prince, behind the Piano solo, in voice and on the Key's.....was ALWAYS Special. He will be missed.

......there was a Rainbow over Paisley Park last evening.....how fitting.
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« Last Edit: 04/22/16 at 18:01:17 by stone_of_tone »  

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stone_of_tone
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #103 - 04/23/16 at 20:58:33
 
NOS/Platinum/E188CC 7308 Cryogenic Mullard's / CSP3 Outputs

~ to ~

NOS/Platinum/CV2492/6922 Ediswan's / ZMA Inputs

.........nough' said.
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stone_of_tone
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #104 - 04/26/16 at 15:57:24
 
I decided to pull my CSP3 out last evening. I wanted to revisit its absence, .....with further seasoning-from the caps in my Adagio's/increase in efficiency, to speaker cable and power cable upgrades, etc... .

I really like what I'm hearing, sans Pre! I'm not selling my Pre just yet. As good as the CSP3 resolution is and weight.....when you do remove it and run the ZMA direct from ZDSD.....now, I'm witnessing a little more of everything and maintaining the great dynamic's too.    .....time will tell...which I prefer (with or without Pre)......running different pairs of NOS input tubes/ZMA.

NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC  (1 pair)

NOS/Platinum/E188CC 7308 Cryogenic Mullard (2 pair)

NOS/Platinum/Ediswan CV2492/6922 (1 pair)

NOS/Platinum/Cryogenic Ediswan CV2492/6922 (1 pair).

NOS Platinum Tungsram 6922 (1 pair)

NOS Platinum Tungsram PCC88/7DJ8 (1 pair)





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« Last Edit: 04/26/16 at 16:01:01 by stone_of_tone »  

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Lon
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #105 - 04/26/16 at 16:08:27
 
I keep going back to running the DirectStream directly into the Torii. . . the CSP2+ is great for the ZP3 and for my universal player, but less is more for the digital source. . . . Won't part with my CSP2+ (well, I have three of them and a CSP2, will probably part with a few!) but really enjoy the "direct" approach for Redbook and my DVR.
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stone_of_tone
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #106 - 04/26/16 at 16:30:39
 
Lon, from what I'm hearing again this morning. I agree, the direct (no Pre), has me, now, pretty damn smitten. Having both options, makes me appreciate my Decware even more.
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Lon
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #107 - 04/26/16 at 16:34:23
 
Absolutely, it's nice to have both options, but I've been mentioning this last year and this year: I prefer straight in and if my Torii had three instead of two inputs I would probably use those three and the preamp would be in a closet. It's a credit to the best sources and to Steve that these amps don't need a preamp for their use. Lesser sources. . . yeah, the CSP series of preamps really can help.
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stone_of_tone
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #108 - 04/26/16 at 17:00:43
 
So true Lon, you have stated this. I don't think I'm going back to the Pre..... . I'm glad I waited/resisted trying again, until now. I needed to know the Pre so well (plus further seasoning of all)....now, I am able to fully discern its absence.  YES, nice testament to Decware. I want for nothing else.








Listening Room:


Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew

Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)/Sandwich weighted for Isolation

Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC

Shunyata Research Zitron Alpha Digital Power Cord to ZDSD
{Extremely Significant}

Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder
***************************************************************
W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the curb quite a few superb DAC'S!
***************************************************************
(@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192)


WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
~BIASED at *60* mA~
(NOS/Platinum/E188CC 7308 Cryogenic Mullard's in my A12 an B12 positions~Cryoset 6H23N-EB's for Inverter Tubes~JAN Sylvania 0A3's & New Quad of Tube Depot Stealth/Tung-Sol KT66's)


***************************************************
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades
***************************************************

Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)
.....from 8ohm Taps




Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)


XLO Pro Power Cords to CSP3 an ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport an ZDSD, Regenerated/*122*~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output)
***************************************************************************
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« Last Edit: 04/26/16 at 17:06:46 by stone_of_tone »  

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Lon
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Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 13017
Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #109 - 04/26/16 at 17:08:37
 
My only want is the next version of the PerfectWave Transport that PS Audio will introduce later this year. It will allow me to play SACD and Blu-Ray Audio discs through the DirectStream, which is I think the only real improvement I can expect in my system. Not sure if I can swing the cost this year (they will allow a trade in and I have two of the PWTs so can send one in). . . we'll see, will have to sell some things, but that's my one audio want beyond more and more LPs and Cds and SACDs.
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stone_of_tone
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #110 - 04/27/16 at 17:49:18
 
....That will be a sweet piece Lon. I know you have a SACD collection and Bluray audio via the i2s.....cool.

Back to Pre/CSP3. I am no stranger to sans PRE, for 12.5 years, I ran my SE84CSelect without one. I keep my original Signature below from May of 2001 when I joined this Forum. As an ode to the SE84CS. I still have the AA Gear listed, that I purchased new in 1995.

I know, you have been a member, since a couple years before 2001. Remember our original post counts (yours being the highest)? .....they were erased when Steve created the New Forum System...... .

Totally enjoying no Pre.....driven direct as I write!
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Lon
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Posts: 13017
Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #111 - 04/27/16 at 18:13:50
 
I've been a forum member since '97 or '98. At one point after the forum change I accidentally deleted my profile and lost like 3000 posts.  Yes, I know you ran for quite some time without the preamp both with the previous amp and the ZMA at first correct? I used to use a Select without a preamp. . . only went to the CSP2 when I got the EL34 Monoblocks I ran for some time before the Integrated and then the Torii Mk II and then Mk IIIs. If I didn't need that third source I could be quite happy without my CSP2+. . . but since I do and will need that third source for this system I keep working on making the CSP2+ be what it can be. . . it's a very versatile machine, if you have to have a pre, one of Steve's is the one to have.
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« Last Edit: 04/27/16 at 18:25:48 by Lon »  

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stone_of_tone
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #112 - 04/28/16 at 14:04:09
 
.......where does the time go. Yes, I did run the ZMA for a couple months....without the CSP3. Had it on order and received early April 2014. So, I have a good 2 years with her.

Enjoying having the CSP3 out of the chain. But, like you said Lon, if you have to have one, Steve's is it. I don't see myself getting rid of it anytime soon. .....will rotate her back in, now and again. Nice for the 2nd source/as you stated and what the P3 can bring to the party with little or no detriment. I don't want to regret getting rid of this seasoned beauty/CSP3.

Now, back to Tube Rolling! I have my: NOS Platinum Telefunken E88CC pair in my ZMA Inputs. ....simply Stellar!


Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
~BIASED at *60* mA~
(NOS/Platinum/E88CC Telefunken's in my A12 an B12 input positions~Russian Cryoset 6H23N/P-EB's for Inverter Tubes~JAN Sylvania 0A3's & New Quad of Tube Depot Stealth/Tung-Sol KT66's)
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« Last Edit: 04/28/16 at 14:05:02 by stone_of_tone »  

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Palomino
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #113 - 04/28/16 at 15:33:12
 
Stone, I am starting to think maybe the Mullards are a bit warm sounding.  I can do some tweaks to adjust.  Not sure I want to roll to something else and lose the liquidity.
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stone_of_tone
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #114 - 04/29/16 at 14:17:08
 
Yes, they are tad warm. But the liquidity! So, I can ignore (when I have them in for 4 or 5 days at a time).....the not so extended highs that my tweeter's love with the Ediswan's and Telefunken's I have in right now. The Ediswan's perceived lower bass is something too.

So for me, I have found my Flavor's: 4 or 5 days at a time, (especially with my Preamp out of the chain).....Telefunken pair in ZMA inputs right now.....then Cryogenic Edi's next week, then Cryo Mullard's.....then Tungsram 6922's after Mull's....then the PCC88 Tungsram's.

Never a dull moment. With everything in my chain now seasoned in....I'm loving the ZDSD direct to ZMA with these NOS Platinum Input Tube Pairs!
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« Last Edit: 04/29/16 at 14:20:22 by stone_of_tone »  

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Palomino
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #115 - 04/29/16 at 16:24:58
 
I can tweek a bit with the Torii III.

I flipped the bias switch and it was already better, but I didn't lose the liquidity.  I can also tweak the treble shunt and go back to the 274Bs.  Bass sounded a little loose this morning, but I can tweak there as well.

I think these tubes are worth building around.  Already considering another set, but I think they are rated for like 10K hours or something crazy.

I am going to put the '74 6n23p's tubes back in for a comparo this weekend if I get a chance.  Oh, and my replacement '75 SWG Silver Shield is on its way from the Russian dealer who made good on his promise to replace the DOA tube.  It just took a while for him to find a matched tube.  The '75s are fairly rare.
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will
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #116 - 04/29/16 at 19:18:35
 
I have three pairs of Mullard made E188CC, bought at good prices over the last 5 or 6 years I guess. Two are Phillips labelled SQs and one RTC labelled with 80' on the box, but these tubes were made in the early 70's at Blackburn and labelled by RTC in the 80s.

The RTCs can still be gotten relatively inexpensively from the right Ebay sellers. I got mine for 80 some years ago when a big bunch first came on the scene. And though rarer now, I saw an auction recently, sold inexpensively, and from a seller with very high satisfaction, though from Eastern Europe. No problem for me, I have gotten some very nice tubes inexpensively from several long-term, highly rated sellers in the area.

Anyway, all of these particular Mullard made tubes are the same construction. And they also fit the unusual category of requiring extra long burnin, just like the Telefunken E88CC from upscale. Like all the burnin issues I have had with tubes, caps and amps, the bass is slowest to tighten up and develop good timbre, while the mids and highs tend to be more rigid. With refinement the sound becomes more open, textured, better ambient info...the finally developed fine detail softening and awakening everything.

That said, with mine burned in, they all sound a little different (different productions times), one pair quite open, one fairly warm, and the other in the middle. All are nice tubes that I occasionally like to use.
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« Last Edit: 04/29/16 at 20:03:57 by will »  

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Palomino
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #117 - 04/29/16 at 19:32:21
 
The single wire 6n23ps and the Mullards are my first foray into >$100 tubes.  

Well worth it in my mind even though it took me some time to pull the trigger.  Having the best year I've had since the downturn and making my last college tuition payment (for now) helped me try them.
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Dave1210
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #118 - 04/29/16 at 20:49:31
 
I am enjoying this thread guys!  

I just rolled into the ZMA four Tungsram PCC88/7DJ8's.  It's too early to report on SQ as the tubes need to warm up/break in.

I may have to get a set of Mullard's to experience the liquidity you guys keep referring to.

Have a great weekend!
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #119 - 05/01/16 at 15:10:20
 
Like Will said Pal, give them time to burn in an settle in. Don't go over tweak yet.

Dave, cool, I have a pair of the Tungsram PCC88's too. I could not resist, I put my Tungsram NOS Plat' 6922's (ZMA Inputs) in this morning from Kevin. Great stuff from Hungary mid 70's. I did put 30 hours on them in my CSP3 Outputs....they are shaping up nice.....in Inputs/ZMA.

.....I'll get to my Tung' PCC88's in a few weeks......... .

The main thing in this tube rolling, I guess I'm stating the obvious, but....enjoy the differences in your Tube Pairs!

.....My Tung's are not my Telefunken's, which are not my Ediswan's ....which are not my Mullard's.     ENJOY!
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« Last Edit: 05/01/16 at 16:25:25 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #120 - 05/01/16 at 15:50:35
 
Not hyperbole....."Old production SWEET, extended, and stays quiet." & "Dead nuts quiet. Superb detail and dynamics... "

http://www.upscaleaudio.com/6922-6dj8-7308-pcc88/tungsram-6922/

Enjoying with my 2nd cup of Peet's Coffee, Congo Organic KIVU.
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« Last Edit: 05/01/16 at 16:22:53 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #121 - 05/01/16 at 16:37:44
 
ive wondered about those tungsrams...  like them huh
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #122 - 05/02/16 at 01:18:00
 
Hi Trip, yes, after putting about 30 hours on them in my Pre. I've ditched the Pre and are running them direct input. Very nice 5 disc session this morning.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #123 - 05/06/16 at 21:08:10
 
Ahhhh, CSP3 back in baby!  I missed her!

The dynamic muscle that this UL ZMA needs....the CSP3 deliver's. I don't care if you're running balanced from your DAC/direct....I'm walking all over that anemia with my set up........ .

YMMV (to maintain transparency/resolution), for your wires, tubes, acoustic room treatment and absence of the Shunyata Zitron Alpha Digital power cord   Wink....... .

This weekends Tube Entre':
I'm running 3, NOS/Platinum/E188CC 7308 Cryogenic Mullard's in my CSP3.....with my pair of NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC's for inputs of ZMA.  .....rest of see below.

The Friday afternoon party has commenced!!!

This Tube compliment is all soooooooo gooooood!






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Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)/Sandwich weighted for Isolation

Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC

Shunyata Research Ztron Alpha Digital Power Cord to ZDSD
{Extremely Significant}

Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder
***************************************************************
W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the curb quite a few superb DAC'S!
***************************************************************
(@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192)

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps
(NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Input Tube~NOS/Platinum/E188CC 7308 Cryogenic Mullard's for Output Tubes & 5U4G-C Rectifier)
****************************************************
10 of 10 for Input tube & *9* of 10 voltage for Output tubes
Volume adjustment usage at 25% to 55% from 0
****************************************************

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
~BIASED at *60* mA~
(NOS/Platinum/E188CC 7308 Cryogenic Mullard's in my A12 an B12 positions~Russian Cryoset 6H23N/P-EB's for Inverter Tubes~JAN Sylvania 0A3's & New Quad of Tube Depot Stealth/Tung-Sol KT66's)
ZMA adjusted at 20%, 25 to 30% max, from 0


***************************************************
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades
***************************************************

Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)
.....from 8ohm Taps




Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)


XLO Pro Power Cords to CSP3 an ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport, ZDSD an CSP3, Regenerated/*122*~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output)
****************************************************************************
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« Last Edit: 05/06/16 at 22:23:57 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #124 - 05/06/16 at 21:19:16
 
I'm listening to the CSP preamp too. . . but feeding the Torii glorious vinyl. It does great for vinyl, but try as I might, it's better without for my DirectStream. (The CSP makes it more "HifFi" but not better.) But the system works well this way for my three inputs so I'm just leaving it as is and enjoying the music immensely.

God bless the ZP3.
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« Last Edit: 05/06/16 at 21:39:27 by Lon »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #125 - 05/06/16 at 21:24:37
 
No one can argue a ZP3 for Vinyl....I would bet.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #126 - 05/06/16 at 21:54:49
 
I'm sure you can do better. But I'd hate to see what you would have to pay.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #127 - 05/06/16 at 22:22:03
 
Ditto on that.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #128 - 05/06/16 at 23:28:04
 
Stone,

Nice that you have her back! Got a great listening session going and rising early to catch some stripers that are running. Not sure if you are fishing this spring but glad its the season!!!

JD
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #129 - 05/17/16 at 02:53:26
 
Rob and I got together at his place on Sunday for a mini-CDApS meeting.  Mostly to hear his Gungnir multi-bit upgrade.  But we ended up doing a little tube swapping.

We listened to his 6n1ps (standard Zen issue), my mallards and the 74 silver shield single wire 6n23ps.  To cut to the chase, the 6n23ps clearly sounded the best on his system.  The music cam alive.  The mallards were too dark and the 6n1ps were too slow.

So as you guys know, its a synergy thing with the whole system.

I came home and stuck the 6n23ps in and they sounded good, but bright to me.  Then I went back to the mullards and it was just right.

Rob continues to make strides on his system.  I really think the 6n23ps really made it shine.  It was hard for me to tell the impact of the Gungnir, with all the tube swapping but I did hear things I never heard before and his soundstage was significantly better no matter which tube we had in.

He sent me home with his DAC but I can't seem to get it to work with my SDIF converter.  Don't know what's up with that, but I'm bummed that I am not getting the in home demo I hoped for.

Anyway CDApS rules.  We never fail to make another discovery.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #130 - 05/18/16 at 02:11:22
 
Great summary Palomino.  I had cooled on the tube swapping idea having tried various input tubes (Russian Type 3, Miniwatt Dario, Matsushita National 7DJ8) and having the stock 6N1P clearly beat them all.  But the '74/'75 6N23Ps making a clear improvement in presence and detail, with no other obvious drawbacks, I was re-energized!!  These are so great, and made me forget about my "issues" with my speakers.  The whole system had never sounded better.

CDAPS has been very educational.  Things would not be the same without it.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #131 - 05/18/16 at 14:50:38
 
Yes, the Mullard E188CC's are great. The Mat National's NO. Fortunately, I've had good luck with my Mull's to Mull's, Mull's to Ediswan's, Ediswan's to Ediswan's and last but not least-Tungsram 6922's from my CSP3 to Tungsram PCC88's-ZMA Inputs.

I backed up the Mull's and the Edi's with another pair each so I can run them as describes above, .....plus I have two Telefunken's.....the best tube ever in my Input CSP3 position. Simply spectacular.

I'm done buying NOS Tubes. Have all I need; Kevin does not have any others I want.

Running CSP3 Mull's to ZMA Ediswan's.....right now. Liquid-liquid-liquid. The Mull E188CC synergy with the Amer/Brit Ediswan's is no joke or surprise.
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« Last Edit: 05/18/16 at 14:53:07 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #132 - 05/18/16 at 15:18:58
 
But have you tried the mallards??? Grin Guess I should edit that.

Got Rob's DAC to work.  First via optical, then with my SPDIF converter and allowed me to use his coax as well.  I don't think this was a Schitt issue.  I think it was a Mac/SPDIF converter issue.

Also, coincidently I got my replacement '75 6n23p in the mail.  At first I thought it too was bad, but after a little time in the amp, it seems fine - and better than the '74s as suggested in that review I posted.  Still a little bright with the OBs, but I am still tweaking a little.  I used those tubes in my evaluations.  These are not NOS so I feel they are fully broken in.

Big difference between DACs.  Each DAC has its strong points.  The Chord is more spacious and punchy (I think, output levels between the DACs were hard to match).  The Gunny was more detailed and tonally true - plus more analog sounding and just easier to listen to.  I didn't discern a difference in imaging in terms of placement, just the perceived differences in the space the instruments occupied.  The Chord seemed to exaggerate the reverberation.  The Gunny maybe under emphasized it.  As a result, the size of soundstage was significant between the two DACs.  Not sure which is truer to the original master, but I would tilt it in the Gunny's favor.  Just seemed a little too artificial in the Chord.

I like a big sound and probably would not invest in the Gunny, but it has its strong points.  It just seemed a little contained to me to drop the additional coin.

I think the Gunny does better with brighter tubes.  Tonight I will try the Mullards (or mallards).  I think it will make the Chord more liquid and easier to listen to and make the Gunny sound dull.  They sure did on Rob's Zen UFO.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #133 - 05/19/16 at 15:03:18
 
Nothing wrong with Mallard's   Grin .

Oh yeah, this tube compliment or that one?! I try not to let it drive me nuts. Especially, since I'm running a Pre too.

I find the Mullard's to be best with my CSP3 out of the chain and having the Mull's in the Inputs/ZMA only. However, I love my CSP3 and Mull's to Mull's or Edi's to Edi's are awesome. Right now running Tungsram 6922 out of CSP3 to Ediswan's input ZMA.....just perfect in density and detail. ..........Tone, Tone and more Tone.

Seriously considering the Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE....so I can stick with just running my 6922 NOS tube collection in my ZMA! Most notably too, I want volume and balance control also....via REMOTE!


http://6moons.com/audioreviews/wyred2/preamp.html

"Alas, the STP is far from just another preamplifier......

....plugged in very much describes the intensity of energy transmission at work here. It's a function of speed and color. Usually 'fast' and 'saturated' are core qualities with a number of associated attributes which conflict. They tend to refuse to go hand in hand. The audiophile becomes perennially involved with strategically voicing between components for just the right overall balance. Tone versus speed. Transparency versus density. Here the ideal balance seems built in. It's really quite the wicked combination."

https://wyred4sound.com/products/pre-amps/stp-se

Its been in production for 7 years....the Standard SE version is what was used (see Manufacturer's comment at the end of the 6 Moons read). The Standard SE version is all that is needed. We all don't like 10% restocking fee's (+ shipping to and from). However, I'm compelled to have this STP-SE in my Listening Room, driving my ZMA.
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« Last Edit: 05/19/16 at 16:00:31 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #134 - 05/19/16 at 16:39:42
 
I emailed Tony just 30 mins. ago!  Great service! ....I had questions about the Outputs. All solved.

Hi Larry,

Thanks for the interest! The STP-se will output to whatever cables are connected to it. It has 2 balanced and 2 unbalanced pairs of outputs, giving you plenty of flexibility. Choose whichever output you wish, or even multiples as it will output simultaneously.
--

Tony Holt
Wyred 4 Sound

support@wyred4sound.com
Ph: +1 (805) 466-9973

Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE vs. CSP3.....will commence soon!

It will be interesting: Couple of things for starter's....solid state rectification vs. Tube ~and~ voltage adjustment/hallmark of the CSP3 vs. the STP passive/active hybrid...................... .
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« Last Edit: 05/19/16 at 16:48:37 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #135 - 05/20/16 at 02:39:02
 
Input impedance of the ZMA is okay. But, Maximum Output Voltage: 9V RMS....for the STP....not good. Oh well.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #136 - 05/20/16 at 15:44:44
 
Pardon my digression, with my Preamp exploration. 9V max output of the W4S STP.....is not nearly enough to drive the ZMA appropriately. You want to keep your ZMA in the volume/gain zone that you use when driving it direct from Source (I do drive it direct from ZDSD with my Mullard E188CC's/Input's ~ ZMA).

Then, for added density, definition/resolution and maintaining speed and transparency.....the CSP3 or new ZTPRE are wanted and needed. CSP3 goes to 30V output (ZTPRE at 35V). I prefer 24V and 27V out. ZMA at the sweet spot of 30 or 35% of volume/gain from 0.

If I want Remote Volume (and to get away from Tube Rectification)....I need the ZTPRE. I love my CSP3 so much and need the exercise anyway!  I will run my ZMA exclusively with Decware Pre's only. Other's need not enter the Room!

Now, back to 6922 tube types of this thread. Hijack has finished. Roll Eyes Grin






Listening Room:


Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew

Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)/Sandwich weighted for Isolation

Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC

Shunyata Research Ztron Alpha Digital Power Cord to ZDSD
{Extremely Significant}

Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder
***************************************************************
W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the curb quite a few superb DAC'S!
***************************************************************
(@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192)

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps
(NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Input Tube~NOS/Platinum/Tungsram 6922/E88CC's for Output Tubes & 5U4G-C Rectifier)
****************************************************
10 of 10 for Input tube & *9* of 10 voltage for Output tubes
Volume adjustment usage at 25% to 55% from 0
****************************************************

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
~BIASED at *60* mA~
(NOS/Platinum/Ediswan CV2492/6922 Cryogenic in my A12 an B12 positions~Russian Cryoset 6H23N/P-EB's for Inverter Tubes~JAN Sylvania 0A3's & New Quad of Tube Depot Stealth/Tung-Sol KT66's)
ZMA adjusted at 25%, 30 to 35% max, from 0


***************************************************
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades
***************************************************

Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)
.....from 8ohm Taps




Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)


XLO Pro Power Cords to CSP3 an ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport, ZDSD an CSP3, Regenerated/*122*~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output)
****************************************************************************
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« Last Edit: 05/20/16 at 16:00:46 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #137 - 06/02/16 at 13:37:50
 
Ah yes! E188CC NOS Platinum Cryogenic Mullard's back in my CSP3 outputs with Telefunken input. Feeding Ediswan pair for ZMA inputs....does not get any better!

Hey, I have a NAD M51, coming in to challenge my ZDSD for Red Book play. The best way for me to get Volume/gain control from my Listening Chair. Supposedly, without truncating bits.

I'm also intrigued to play some Blu-ray Audio with it. I like a dozen Titles from elusivedisc.

I will eventually, try running it direct to my ZMA. However, my NOS 6922 tubes I run out of my CSP3 an into my ZMA, can't be beat for me. Plus, my gain structures: ZMA at 25% up from 0 volume, with CSP3 at 45% up from 0 volume....allowing me to attenuate with the M51....should be heaven.

However, the ZDSD's output stage Steve designed, is going to be hard to beat.

The M51 comes today. Let the Games begin (RIO)! Umm, ah, I mean NAD and ZDSD output stage challenge!   Grin
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« Last Edit: 06/02/16 at 13:40:59 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #138 - 06/02/16 at 18:46:42
 
Nice DAC. After I got my gain(s) adjusted. The ZMA stays at 25% from 0/remaining rock solid (under and on the cusp of clipping). The CSP3 needed to go from 45% from 0 to 70%. This way, the M51 can be attenuated beautifully at a range of -4db to +2db! I HAVE REMOTE VOLUME ~ YAAAAAA!

I like what I'm hearing a lot. Need to give the output stage 100+ hours to season in. Right now, Steve's Output Tranny's are just a tad more organic. Not to say the M51 is not detailed and analog sounding-it is, with a spot on tonal balance. And the control and weight density, driving through the CSP3 at 27 output volts per channel, at 84 to 93.5db SPL peaks (+1 or +2db, from the Remote) is all there and no fatigue-very musical!  I have a hunch the output stage of the M51 will come along nicely (and soundstage is already there with great imaging like the ZDSD). Or, I'll call Steve and see if he can put his Output Tranny's in it.

Happy Listening!
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« Last Edit: 06/02/16 at 19:22:32 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #139 - 06/02/16 at 19:21:24
 
Stone,

The M51 is a great DAC. I had one a few years ago. My memory is not good enough to say how it stacks up against the ZDSD which I also have. You could easily add Steve's output stage by using a Zbit and using the balanced outputs of the M51. I have had good results with the Zbit and various combinations of gear.
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #140 - 06/02/16 at 19:25:06
 
Cool. Thanks lLance, I completely forgot about the Zbit!

But, ultimately, I'd like it in the chassis (the M51 has the room like the Tascam 3000) and coupled.

The Shunyata Alpha Digital powercord to the M51 like the ZDSD....is not to be underestimated.
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« Last Edit: 06/02/16 at 19:38:05 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #141 - 06/07/16 at 14:03:04
 
No worries about the M51. She has seasoned in at about 38 to 42 hours now. I'm loving the output stage. Running her as described a couple of posts above. She is a keeper and I have volume control straight thru my CSP3 voltage gain! Just simply awesome tone, sound stage and imaging!

The ZDSD is her equal with Steve's output stage. I could live with her for good. However, I adjust volume gain just enough here and there, that the M51/wins the tie breaker.
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Illuminati D-60
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Audio Alchemy DDE 3.0
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stone_of_tone
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Posts: 2632
Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #142 - 06/07/16 at 20:14:42
 
Ah no, the M51 does not win the tie breaker for having volume control.

I put my ZDSD back in (comparing Red Book to Red Book) and it has better tone/timbre, slight digital sheen that the M51 has is GONE, deeper resolute bass from the ZDSD as well. Micro inner detail of guitar strings and piano, that is accompanying the great timbre of the ZDSD is all back too. Overall way better with the ZDSD.

I will continue to put 100 hours on the M51. So far, ZDSD wins. I will live without remote volume control..... .
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Illuminati D-60
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Audio Alchemy DDE 3.0
Kimber Select 1030
Zen Select #76
Kimber Select 3033
Polk Audio LS-90
Tri-config/TipToes & Vibropods underneath Speakers
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beowulf
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Posts: 1298
Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #143 - 06/07/16 at 22:24:02
 
@ stone - or just get the ZTPRE with volume control and be done with it! Grin
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« Last Edit: 06/07/16 at 22:24:42 by beowulf »  
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stone_of_tone
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Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #144 - 06/09/16 at 17:13:06
 
Going to give the M51 a fair shot. However, the ZDSD is the one for me....the way it is going down..... .

Nope, on the new ZTPRE. Not that I don't want it?! I'm so locked in with my CSP3 and NOS Platinum tube rolling; my System below is the Bomb! I just don't need to adjust the volume that much and the CSP3 has plenty of power/volts to drive my ZMA/Adagio's.

Last night, I put my Kimber KS6063, downstairs in my Big Rig/Polk SDA SRS 1.2 Speaker's. The command, improved shaded timbre and transparency was more than subtle. ..........Running Kimber 8TC exquisitely, in the Listening Room now too!

The Stone of Tone.......Decware.





Listening Room:


Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew

Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)/Sandwich weighted for Isolation

Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC

Shunyata Research Ztron Alpha Digital Power Cord to ZDSD
{Extremely Significant}

Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder
***************************************************************
W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the curb quite a few superb DAC'S!
***************************************************************
(@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192)

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps
(NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Input Tube~NOS/Platinum/Tungsram 6922/E88CC's for Output Tubes & 5U4G-C Rectifier)
****************************************************
10 of 10 for Input tube & *9* of 10 voltage for Output tubes
Volume adjustment usage at 25% to 55% from 0
****************************************************

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
~BIASED at *60* mA~
(NOS/Platinum/Ediswan CV2492/6922 Cryogenic in my A12 an B12 positions~Russian Cryoset 6H23N/P-EB's for Inverter Tubes~JAN Sylvania 0A3's & New Quad of Tube Depot Stealth/Tung-Sol KT66's)
ZMA adjusted at 25%, 30 to 35% max, from 0


New Kimber 8TC/5ft pair/banana
***************************************************
KS6063 moved to SS Big Rig/Polk SDA SRS 1.2 Speaker's
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades
***************************************************

Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)
.....from 8ohm Taps




Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)


XLO Pro Power Cords to CSP3 an ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport, ZDSD an CSP3, Regenerated/*122*~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output)
****************************************************************************
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« Last Edit: 06/09/16 at 17:16:54 by stone_of_tone »  

Sony as Transport
Illuminati D-60
Audio Alchemy DTI-Pro
Audio Magic Mystic Reference I2S
Audio Alchemy DDE 3.0
Kimber Select 1030
Zen Select #76
Kimber Select 3033
Polk Audio LS-90
Tri-config/TipToes & Vibropods underneath Speakers
360 degree Rm Treats
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stone_of_tone
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Posts: 2632
Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #145 - 06/15/16 at 19:21:04
 
8TC is a great neutral musical cable. However, the KS6063, better's the TC in every way. 6063 is back in the Listening Room. 8TC is great in my Rig downstairs~love it. But, the ZMA is the Amp that shows the 6063's live performance qualities/even truer of timbre with liquidity. 8TC is pretty damn true....but not in the league of the KS6063.

I'm really locked in to Mullard's (CSP3 outputs) to Ediswan's (ZMA inputs) too.
......Then, Edi's to Edi's.....probably is a tie.

I took the Pangea out of my System. It was running from the wall to my P3. Improvement now, with this dark sounding Pcord out. However, I need to ABA it some more..... .
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« Last Edit: 06/16/16 at 15:33:48 by stone_of_tone »  

Sony as Transport
Illuminati D-60
Audio Alchemy DTI-Pro
Audio Magic Mystic Reference I2S
Audio Alchemy DDE 3.0
Kimber Select 1030
Zen Select #76
Kimber Select 3033
Polk Audio LS-90
Tri-config/TipToes & Vibropods underneath Speakers
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stone_of_tone
Seasoned Member
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Posts: 2632
Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #146 - 06/21/16 at 18:17:35
 
Okay, as much as I like the NEW 8TC, once again, the KS6063 wins in realism of more tone and air for all instrumentations. How close is the 8TC(?) = very close, that is how good it is.

TUBES and Happy Summer Solstice!

Favorites (in order):
Telefunken, always as Input Tube for CSP3
Ediswan pair (CSP3 Outputs) to Ediswan (ZMA Inputs)
Mullards to Mullards
Tungsram 6922's to Tungsram PCC88's

Enjoy the heat! Then, cool down with Decware/Tunes!
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Sony as Transport
Illuminati D-60
Audio Alchemy DTI-Pro
Audio Magic Mystic Reference I2S
Audio Alchemy DDE 3.0
Kimber Select 1030
Zen Select #76
Kimber Select 3033
Polk Audio LS-90
Tri-config/TipToes & Vibropods underneath Speakers
360 degree Rm Treats
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Matchstikman
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Posts: 643
Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #147 - 06/21/16 at 19:01:20
 
I live in Phoenix and we are lovin' the heat.
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stone_of_tone
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Posts: 2632
Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #148 - 07/14/16 at 21:08:58
 
Using my Telefunken NOS Plat' E88CC pair in my ZMA Inputs. The slam and majesty........... .

Had my Buttery detailed peddle flower with tight bass NOS Plat' Mullard's in for almost 4 weeks.

Nice change to the Tele's.




Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
~BIASED at *60* mA~
(NOS/Platinum/Telefunken E88CC's in my A12 an B12 positions~Russian Cryoset 6H23N/P-EB's for Inverter Tubes~New NOS RCA 0A3's & New Quad of Tube Depot Stealth/Tung-Sol KT66's)





NOS Platinum Tube Rotations in my ZMA,

(matched pairs/from Upscale Audio/Kevin):

(Germany) Telefunken E88CC ~ 1 pair
(Great Britain) Mullard 7308/E188CC ~  2 pair (both pair Cryogenic)
(US/Great Britain) Ediswan CV2492/6922 ~ 2 pair (one pair Cryogenic)
(Hungary) Tungsram 6922/E88CC ~ 1 pair
(Hungary) Tungsram PCC88/7DJ8 ~ 1 pair
(Russian) Cryoset 6N23N/P-EB ~ 2 pair

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« Last Edit: 07/14/16 at 21:13:20 by stone_of_tone »  

Sony as Transport
Illuminati D-60
Audio Alchemy DTI-Pro
Audio Magic Mystic Reference I2S
Audio Alchemy DDE 3.0
Kimber Select 1030
Zen Select #76
Kimber Select 3033
Polk Audio LS-90
Tri-config/TipToes & Vibropods underneath Speakers
360 degree Rm Treats
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stone_of_tone
Seasoned Member
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Listen Often/Listen
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Posts: 2632
Re: Ediswan 6922
Reply #149 - 07/31/16 at 15:30:02
 
NOS Platinum Ediswan's back in for ZMA Input Tubes. Simply put....just a musical cornucopia.

ARC LS17 SE.....continues to break in and is just sublime with the ZMA, with a control and dimensionality, not had alone with the ZMA. All the transparency is there now too.....the LS17 has delivered!

Furthermore, my 6063's are over on A-gon. I've been rotating the 8TC in the last couple of months....... .
Kimber 8TC, New clear jacket ~ 5 ft. Pair/Banana Plugs.
(The detail/imaging/definition and soundstage with the KS1030 IC's, 8TC and the addition of the LS17 SE Pre ~ bests the 6063).



Listening till noon....then outside....to nice to be in. Drive down the St. Croix River/Mississippi, this afternoon and dinner in Hastings.








Listening Room:


Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew

Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)/Sandwich weighted for Isolation

Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC

Shunyata Research Ztron Alpha Digital Power Cord to ZDSD
{Extremely Significant}

Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder
***************************************************************
W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the curb quite a few superb DAC'S!
***************************************************************
(@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192)


WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030


***Audio Research LS17 SE Preamplifier*** ~ w/stock 6H30's

.....will upgrade to: DR
http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/6H30-Tube-Types/Russian-6H30P-DR


WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030


Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
~BIASED at *60* mA~
(NOS/Platinum/Ediswan CV2492/6922 in my A12 an B12 positions~NOS Russian Cryoset 6N23N/P-EB for Inverter Tubes~NOS RCA 0A3's & New Quad of Tube Depot Stealth/Tung-Sol KT66's)
ZMA adjusted at 50 to 60% ~ from 0 Gain/with ARC LS17 SE


Kimber 8TC, New clear jacket ~ 5 ft. Pair/Banana Plugs
(The detail/imaging/definition and soundstage with the KS1030 IC's, 8TC and the addition of the LS17 SE Pre ~ bests the 6063)


Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)
.....from 8ohm Taps





Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)


XLO Pro Power Cords to ARC LS17 SE an ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport, ZDSD an ARC LS17 SE, Regenerated/*120*~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output)



NOS Platinum Tube Rotations in my ZMA,

(matched pairs/from Upscale Audio/Kevin):

(Germany) Telefunken E88CC ~ 1 pair
(Great Britain) Mullard 7308/E188CC ~  2 pair (both pair Cryogenic)
(US/Great Britain) Ediswan CV2492/6922 ~ 2 pair (one pair Cryogenic)
(Hungary) Tungsram 6922/E88CC ~ 1 pair
(Hungary) Tungsram PCC88/7DJ8 ~ 1 pair
(Russian) Cryoset 6N23N/P-EB ~ 2 pair
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« Last Edit: 07/31/16 at 17:06:32 by stone_of_tone »  

Sony as Transport
Illuminati D-60
Audio Alchemy DTI-Pro
Audio Magic Mystic Reference I2S
Audio Alchemy DDE 3.0
Kimber Select 1030
Zen Select #76
Kimber Select 3033
Polk Audio LS-90
Tri-config/TipToes & Vibropods underneath Speakers
360 degree Rm Treats
  IP Logged
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