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Re: SE84ZS tube choice in my system (Read 4227 times)
Acetone
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Re: SE84ZS tube choice in my system
02/16/15 at 23:13:18
 
In my SE84CKC:  I agree and leave in the 6P15P's that came with the Zen.   Input  62' Philips-holland miniwatt SQ E88cc/6922. Rect: Philips 5R4GYS.  After 1 year + tube rolling I've settled on this arrangement..at least for more than a few months.
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fitmartin
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Re: SE84ZS tube choice in my system
Reply #1 - 02/21/15 at 18:21:38
 
Wondering what others use as their fav input tube for this amazing set amp?

So far the 6N1P black grid is best to my ears for open, detailed and high tight bass ouput

Some have said Amperex 7308?

Any other favs out there please respond?

Cheers,

Happy listening,

Martin
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« Last Edit: 02/21/15 at 18:45:24 by fitmartin »  

Decware SE84ZS, Space Tech Lab QA-115 preamp with outboard super rectifier, Arcam highly modded dual transformer Plus CDP, Cardas golden I/C's, custom ordered Blumenstein solid bamboo cabs with Alpair 10P speakers, powered 10" subwoofer
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Rivieraranch
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Re: SE84ZS tube choice in my system
Reply #2 - 02/21/15 at 18:31:46
 
I just obtained some 6N2P-EV made in 1970. They sound very open and lively in the Taboo MK III. In the CKC they have a similar sound. I removed a 1976 6N1P-EV tube that had black carbonized plates, an unusual thing. I have yet to try it out fully but it does the same thing in the CKC as it does in the Taboo.

Don't try the 6N2P in a TORII, though. I tried a couple in my TORII MK IV and they did not amplify hardly at all. I had to turn the volume way up. Then after a while they began getting noisy in the amp.
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mark58
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Re: SE84ZS tube choice in my system
Reply #3 - 02/21/15 at 18:35:42
 
I use both Amperex 7308 or Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8 in that position depending on the speakers I want to listen to.  Currently I'm running a new pair of Amperex 6922s in my Zen Signature Mono Blocks...similar to your amp but I haven't come to any conclusions yet...I think they need to burn in a bit more.  Mark.
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The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted." William Shakespeare
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fitmartin
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Re: SE84ZS tube choice in my system
Reply #4 - 02/21/15 at 18:46:21
 
Please post the differences between the two tubes on here Mark
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Decware SE84ZS, Space Tech Lab QA-115 preamp with outboard super rectifier, Arcam highly modded dual transformer Plus CDP, Cardas golden I/C's, custom ordered Blumenstein solid bamboo cabs with Alpair 10P speakers, powered 10" subwoofer
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jameskk
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Re: SE84ZS tube choice in my system
Reply #5 - 05/10/15 at 13:06:06
 
I've spent a lot of money on this . We're talking a few shelves of tubes. always went back to the 6n1p, and that's whats in there now. and so have a few others on this forum!!!
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Lord Soth
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Re: SE84ZS tube choice in my system
Reply #6 - 05/11/15 at 20:35:06
 
Hi Martin, my experience from owning 2 Decware amps is that they are designed to be like a straight wire with gain.

The philosophy behind every design is to maintain simplicity with as few parts as possible in the sonic path because more parts in the audio path means loss of audio fidelity.

The choice of input tube ( and any other tube e.g rectifier) thus has a great impact on the overall sound in any Decware amp.

This is also the reason why I have found similar sonics when tube rolling the same type of  input tube in my 2 different Decware amps.

For input tubes in the 6DJ8 or 6N1P family, I have also found "Joe's tube lore" to be very accurate. It would be a good starting point for any tube roller. Just google it.

I have always been the first to replace all Russian tubes with European ones because I have a personal preference for sonic clarity.
Russian tubes impart a wonderful  warmth to the tone but this is IMHO often at the expense of sonic clarity when compared against European Philips/Telefunken or American Amperex tubes.

The default Chinese rectifier should also be replaced with either a European or American NOS tube.
The sonics will be improved tremendously across all frequencies.

Kudos to Steve for making his amps sound fantastic with the default tubes.
However, based on my experience from owning 2 different Decware amps, switching the input and rectifier tube will turn any Decware amp from "very good" to "Great".
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ProggRob
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Re: SE84ZS tube choice in my system
Reply #7 - 06/02/15 at 15:29:30
 
I've been changing the input tubes for a month now, and think I've finally settled on the Russian Type 3 6922 from Upscale Audio.  It provides greater midrange clarity and better dynamics, IMO, vs. the standard 6N1P.  I thought I had settled on the Matsushita National 7DJ8, but over time found the additional forwardness to be fatiguing, albeit the detail was off the charts.

Now I'm playing with the rectifiers.  Tried a solid state rectifier for S&G and actually found the dynamics to be quite enjoyable.  The NOS RCA 5U4G is like bottled romance, fun for late night listening but not practical for most recordings.  To me, it is clearly coloring the sound in a way that makes modern recordings sound slurred, but older recordings sound like you've arrived Heaven's Gate.  My favorite thus far has been a cryo'd Valve Art 274B, which plays nicely with all recordings, is more lively and linear than the RCA, but a bit lean by comparison.  Seems like if I could find something that fits in between the 274B and the RCA 5U4G I'd be happy.  I've read good things about the Phillips 5R4GYS and am inclined to try it, and also the Brimar that Lord Soth has mentioned before.  Though $200 in tubes could more wisely be put towards the UFO transformer upgrade.  What's a boy to do?

Rob

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Baetis Revolution II -> HFC CT-1E Digital Cable -> Gungnir Multibit -> Triode Wire Labs Spirit IC -> SE84UFO2, 2x Rythmik A370PEQ -> WE16ga SC -> Caintuck Betsy, 4x Hawthorne Augies. Power/Room Treatment: Triode Wire Labs, PI Audio UberBUSS, Furutech, GIK Traps
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Lon
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Re: SE84ZS tube choice in my system
Reply #8 - 06/02/15 at 16:01:26
 
Consider an old RCA 5V4 type. Livelier and less romantic than the 5U4 type, and with some tube sets just right. I like the coke bottle type. I use them in my Torii Mk III and in my CSP2+ (recent addition there, usually use really old RCA 5Y3GT but the 5V4 will probably stay in in its place).
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ProggRob
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Re: SE84ZS tube choice in my system
Reply #9 - 06/02/15 at 17:51:00
 
Thanks Lon!  I see them on Brent Jessee's page for $30, might give it a shot.  The tubular shape is offered for $12.

Rob
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Baetis Revolution II -> HFC CT-1E Digital Cable -> Gungnir Multibit -> Triode Wire Labs Spirit IC -> SE84UFO2, 2x Rythmik A370PEQ -> WE16ga SC -> Caintuck Betsy, 4x Hawthorne Augies. Power/Room Treatment: Triode Wire Labs, PI Audio UberBUSS, Furutech, GIK Traps
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Lon
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Re: SE84ZS tube choice in my system
Reply #10 - 06/02/15 at 18:05:46
 
Cool. There are choices on ebay too. Listening right now to a bottle type I bought for 16 dollars total from ebay.
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HR-1,ZP3,ZTPRE,Torii MkIII,ZBIT,ZROCK2,Taboo MkIV;PS Audio:Soloist SE,DMP+DSD,P10,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs,Mapleshade:Dbl Helix+,SamsonV2+V3;CambrAudi CXU;Rega RP3,TTPSU,Groovetracer upgrades,Exact2;VooDoo Cremona +Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner,Oppo PM-1,Audeze LCD-2
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