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Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet? (Read 32833 times)
Lonely Raven
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Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
10/30/14 at 20:07:15
 
My birthday is coming up in 2 weeks - I'm thinking about getting some tubes for the ZMA to play with. Anyone do any tube rolling in the ZMA yet?

I'm thinking about some Cryoset  Super Cryo 6N1P-EV

http://www.cryoset.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=251&osCsid=8ead1fd8e...


I might be able to swing a quad of Gold Lion KT-66. But I don't think I can afford both pre- and power tubes right now. So I'm just pinging the family to see what others have had good luck with. Either way, I'll update this thread with some thoughts on tubes I've tried once their burnt in a bit, whatever I get.

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« Last Edit: 10/30/14 at 20:17:37 by Lonely Raven »  
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Lon
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #1 - 10/30/14 at 21:26:37
 
I certainly don't have the ZMA but I used those super cryo'd tubes for years and they are the best of that tube type I've ever used.

I did move to 7308s though, finally. . . .
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jsm71
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #2 - 10/30/14 at 21:33:32
 
It's funny most of us ZMA lovers are standing pat with the tubes.  I simply didn't think anything was wrong with the sound.  I also wanted to drive the quality of my preamp higher so I put nice NOS tubes in that.  The sound I'm getting now along with a couple of cable swaps is so good changing tubes on the ZMA hasn't entered my mind.

I'm open to be persuaed however.   If you try something that you really like, we are all ears. Smiley
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Lonely Raven
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #3 - 10/30/14 at 21:50:09
 

Steve mentioned he's using rare NOS Mazda Red-tips for his input tubes. He said he chose those with his tape setup, but likes other tubes with the DAC setup. I've never seen "mazda red tips" before - if anyone has a link for them I'd like to research a bit. I'm also going to research those 7308 that Lon's mentioned here and elsewhere. I've heard of them, but haven't played with them myself. I think they were a bit expensive if they are the ones I'm thinking of.
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Lonely Raven
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #4 - 10/30/14 at 22:05:09
 
I'm considering trying some of these.

http://www.upscaleaudio.com/matsushita-national-pcc88-7dj8/

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will
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #5 - 10/30/14 at 23:38:08
 
Raven,

I think I recall Steve saying 6N23P-EVs were the only tube of choice for him during development? If this is the case, and that is what you are using, it may be worth checking with him on the 6N1P, and 7DJ8 for that matter.... But the 6N1P has a different heater current or something, and in my MKIII, it was both notably quieter than a 6N23P-EV (a 6922/7308 type), but also the 6N1P distorted in my amp at not very high volume levels. Later Steve said this sometimes happened with Toriis, though most liked them.

Those 7DJ8 Nationals at Upscale are nice tubes, quite popular. Personally though there are a number of 7DJ8/PCC88s I like better in the Toriis, but I tend to like all the PCC88s I have tried, especially after adjustments, and/or balancing with other tubes. I find them, in general less edgy, more open and textured...maybe easier and friendlier, compared to most 6922 types, though I have used 7308/E188CCs and loved them. In the CSP3 now, I have an American Amperex 7308, and a pair of Phillips E188CC (the European designation of same [made by Mullard I think]). In the MKIV are some amazing early 60's Miniwatt PCC88s.

I think I have been lucky to find nice NOS pairs of 7308/E188CCs for 100-120, though I have sometimes seen Sylvania 7308s cheaper.

What tube type is that Mazda Steve likes.

How you would like to change your sound might point you one way or another. I feel for you on the cost of four inputs. That seems to make the decision for power or inputs harder.
Wink
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« Last Edit: 10/31/14 at 00:11:53 by will »  

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Lonely Raven
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #6 - 10/31/14 at 01:39:02
 

Yes, Steve did say the 6N23P-EV was the tube for the ZMA. I've already spoken with him - and he says in my case I should try out the 6N1P. Maybe some 6DJ8 as well. I don't recall all he said as when we talk in person we talk at length and tend to wander, and on the phone we're super brief and to the point - that along with my terrible memory, well, I tend to only retain key points. LOL

I've got the Nationals and the Super Cryo 6N1P on the way. If I find myself going back to stock tubes like I kept doing with the little Zen amp, then I'll flip these tubes in the forums for only a few $$ loss. It wouldn't be the first time I tried something I didn't like, only to move on. That's part of why I'm pinging the family to see what others have experienced. I really think the ZMA is great as is, I'm just curious.  :)
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #7 - 10/31/14 at 03:04:43
 
I re-post my review of NOS tubes rolling in my ZMA again here. You may already read it.

Siemens E88CC ($370 for quad), RCA 6L6GC ($380 for quad) and RCA JAN OA3 ($18 for pair).


The sound quality of ZMA with stock tubes is unquestionably superb
. But I need more in lush midrange female vocal, sparkle treble and powerful bass or bass slam.

My first plan is to burn in ZMA with stock tubes for >300 hrs first to know the sound. Then do tube rolling step by step to observe sound quality changing. But ZMA with stock tube's sound is so good that I imagine what if I put Siemens E88CC tubes in, how much is the sound improvement?  
I cannot wait, I change plan to put in Siemens E88CC tubes first 3 days ago. Midrange sound is more lush, both high end and low end extend more, more holograph sound stage. But speed is slower than stock tube.  The fun or PRAT is reduce a little. But overall sound improvement is very satisfy. I replace KT66 with RCA 6L6GC next day. There is more dense sound and more bass. Now speed come back, PRAT is same as stock tube now. But bass is little bloated, not well control. Then I put in RCA JAN OA3.
OMG, it is the last jigsaw. RCA JAN OA3 make over all sound dense, coherent and PUNCH SLAM bass!  Bloated bass disappear and very well control now.

Now I get all, lush midrange female vocal sound to die for of tube amp reputation, sparkle high and PUNCH SLAM bass!  Playing with heavy rock music, you can feel wavy air movement of bass. It is very very scare realism! If you run at 56 ma, it likes discotheque. If you run at 52 ma, it likes stadium rock live concert. The strange is that you just listen at normal SPL 80-93. It is scale down at any SPL, no need to get loud of 100 SPL to get rock live concert feel.

Remark : My ZMA capacitors are V-cap TFTF, not Jupiter HT Beewaxs caps.
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Charnwood
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #8 - 11/01/14 at 15:31:12
 
I decided to do some tube rolling and have basically followed Steve's advice in the ZMA user guide. Try a different brand of KT66's and 7DJ8's in place of the 6N23P-EV's.

I decided to go with a quad of cryo Telefunken PCC88/7DJ8's from Upscale Audio. I have a Telefunken E88CC/6922 in my Taboo Mk3 and am very happy with it. The PCC88/7DJ8's are yet to arrive and based on previous experience it will be a few weeks yet.

For the KT66's, after some deliberation, I've gone with Harma-Cryo KT66-Retro's from Watford Valves here in the UK. I suspect they're re-badged Gold Lion KT66's that have been put through a rigorous testing, grading, burn-in and matching process. They arrived this morning.

If I'd heard the Harma KT66's before I'd ordered the Telefunken PCC88's I might not have ordered the PCC88's. The Harma's sounded good straight out of the box. There was nothing wanting. A superb valve that make's the Tung-Sol's sound course and unrefined by comparison.
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Lon
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #9 - 11/01/14 at 15:43:35
 
Very cool, hadn't heard of these. If they did start off as Gold Lions they've got a great foundation, great tubes. Glad they improved the ZMA!
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Lonely Raven
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #10 - 11/01/14 at 17:28:20
 

Looks like Watford will ship to the US - so that's an option for us.

OK, so I went a little overboard, but I felt I'd treat myself at least a little for my birthday...I'll just be paying for it later.

I went with a quad Cryo Golden Lion KT66, a pair of the Super-Cryo 6N1P,  and a pair of those National 6JD8.

I also have some lightly used 6JD8 in my stash from trying them out on the Zen amp - they were a bit dry there, but worth trying in the ZMA. I just doubt they are balanced and all that, so who knows if they are a good example to put into the ZMA.

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will
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #11 - 11/01/14 at 17:48:44
 
Raven said: "a pair of the Super-Cryo 6N1P,  and a pair of those National 6JD8."  I guess that means you can run different input pairs in the ZMA, not quads?

BTW, I think the Harma KT66 look like Gold Lions too. I recall at some point that Ron at cryoset tries to get higher Ip power tubes, but don't know how his testing compares with Harma. My quad sounds good though!

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« Last Edit: 11/01/14 at 18:08:11 by will »  

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Lonely Raven
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #12 - 11/02/14 at 14:51:57
 
Re: pairs - yes - I'd need to ask Steve which does what (damn faulty memory of mine), but the outside tubes do something different than the tubes between the KT66. One set is an input tube, and the other I think is maybe a drive tube or splits the signal to the KT66 or something. Like I said, I don't recall, so don't quote me. I just know they do different things.

Plus, I couldn't afford quads of input tubes and wanted to try two different sets. So this is my compromise. I'll clarify more once I get the tubes and ask Steve what the difference between those preamp tubes is (or he'll post here to clarify).

Seriously, sometimes I wish I brought a tape recorder when I talk with Steve. He imparts so much information on me when we talk, and I'm really good with understanding concepts, but specific details often get lost. It's just the way my brain works unfortunately. If I actually had a decent memory, my IQ would jump 20 points.... Smiley
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« Last Edit: 11/02/14 at 14:52:41 by Lonely Raven »  
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will
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #13 - 11/02/14 at 16:52:10
 
Well I like that! That two tubes can be rolled in. I am such a tube lover, and have so many input pairs, that the thought of matched quads makes me squirm. I wondered if the two pair had different functions and worked in sequence rather than together.

I get the Steve talk thing. It is so fun to ramble with him through the various segues that come up, sometimes I forget to ask one of the questions I called for!
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« Last Edit: 11/02/14 at 16:53:02 by will »  

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Lonely Raven
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #14 - 11/03/14 at 02:00:54
 

Quote:
I get the Steve talk thing. It is so fun to ramble with him through the various segues that come up, sometimes I forget to ask one of the questions I called for!


LOL - yes exactly!

So, I pulled out my box of "audiophile" tubes - which is everything that isn't slated for guitar amp use. Right on top I see a pair of 6DJ8 with GE logos, but the notes with the tubes says Telefunken! So I've popped these into the position between the KT66 and it sounds great. But then my setup has sounded exceptional lately - so I can't place if the Telefunken are really making any difference. I really need to do some A/B testing at listening volume, but can't do that for a few days.
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will
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #15 - 11/03/14 at 17:35:09
 
I bet your first feeling is right. Those tubes should flavor things a little differently and I would think add quality complexity.

I have some really good sounding GE labelled Mullard made 6922 gold pins. You can sometimes find RCA labelled tubes like this also.

Looking forward to your impressions after A/B...Then you have more to come with the Nationals, 6N1Ps and Genalex! Fun for a happy birthday!
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Lonely Raven
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #16 - 11/04/14 at 02:10:27
 

Yeah, it's probably going to be a while. I forgot I'm away for 3 days for a wedding in Brianne's family this next weekend. Plus I think I need to burn some of these NOS tubes in before I can really judge them. I'm not sure how long that takes for these preamp tubes to bloom.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #17 - 11/04/14 at 23:30:37
 
Well I find that the cryo'd Russian 6 types can take a while, whereas most European 6 types, maybe 50 hours give or take. But most European 6's sound quite good within 15-20, the occasional one taking 70-100 to come all the way out. Especially 7DJ8s seem to come out pretty fast.

How's that for vague?
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« Last Edit: 11/04/14 at 23:36:50 by will »  

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Lon
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #18 - 11/04/14 at 23:39:10
 
Those cryo'd 6N1Ps are going to take quite a few hour to bloom!
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #19 - 11/04/14 at 23:48:11
 
Much to my surprise the Telefunken PCC88/7DJ8's turned up yesterday. Unfortunately they don't go well with the Harma KT66's. The problem is that both tubes have a strong bottom end which results in quite a dark sound.
On the other hand the PCC88's sound stunning with the Tung-Sol KT66's. Fast and dynamic with amazing clarity.
The Harma KT66's do very well with the 6N23P-EV's but the 6N23P-EV's lack some top end extension in my amp. I'm wondering if my 6N23P-EV's are actually up to scratch because comments I've read suggest they should have good air and extension.  
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will
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #20 - 11/05/14 at 00:16:39
 
Charnwood,

I have seen a few different Telefunken PCC88s, and suspect there are more. One is Siemens made, which I have a pair of, the other...not sure, but both of mine needed some burnin to clarify and solidify the bass, so I suppose it is possible this could be the case for yours.

Also, comparing PCC88s in general, I think you will find them more extended feeling on top than 6N23Ps. An open, detailed, and  textured sound is characteristic of PCC88/7DJ8s in my experience even though they all have their own overall character.

I have been using some Miniwatt labelled early 60's Amperex PCC88s in my Torii MKIV with Gold Lion KT66. These are pretty warm and deep for the tube type, and are sounding great here.

I do favor OB3s though, which are more open and less dense than OA3s, and there is a bass tightening/reducing switch on the Torii. No bias adjustment here though. I wonder what happens if you lower the bias on the Harmas?

The Harmas will continue to refine also based on my Genalex...
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« Last Edit: 11/05/14 at 00:17:51 by will »  

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Lonely Raven
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #21 - 11/05/14 at 15:41:52
 
I got my Gold Lion KT66 and Super-Cryo 6N1P last night. I popped the KT66 in the Mystery amp for a few tracks before I had to run out the door (got to see an early 35mm showing of Interstellar!!). The new power tubes had the typical sibilance of new tubes. With the GE (Telefunken) 6DJ8 they sounded a bit boomy on the bass. I had the KT66 dialed in at 50ma on the ZMA gauges, and it smooth out the boomy bass, but also took some life out of the sound. I'm going to burn them in some more then raise the current to see if I can get some of that life back without driving them to unpleasant distortion. No time for the 6N1P yet. Still waiting on the Nationals. Not judging anything yet - still need to burn everything in and play around. I'm just excited for new tube day!
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« Last Edit: 11/05/14 at 15:43:21 by Lonely Raven »  
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #22 - 11/05/14 at 15:47:20
 
I just ordered some National PCC88's. Thanks Charnwood, LR an will. I was told too...that these will be magic with Tong-Sol KT66's. ....extension on top that I like. I do also have a quad of the 23P's Cryo put away as well.

I have Speakers to break in and my P3 continues to burn in... . Then, I will put the National's in.

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« Last Edit: 11/05/14 at 16:33:03 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #23 - 11/05/14 at 16:38:35
 
Reading back thru this thread (good question LR/Eric)? Which pair in my ZMA can I switch into the actual preamp stage? I want to split my quad of National PCC88's/7DJ8, an put the other pair in my CSP3 left an right output channels... . Also, run the quad in the ZMA only too for comparison. I will read thru the design notes an see if I can decipher. Or, Steve might chime in...would be great.

Interstellar = Yes!  Can't wait to see it too. I am trying to hit up the 35mm of it as well. The News here carried a nice piece on the Projector and the Film 35MM. One theater here, had to look for parts an blow the dust off the beast from 1996.

*********Found it in the Manual ....the A12 an B12 are the pretubes.
.......the A11 an B11 are the phase inverters.
http://www.decware.com/newsite/ZMAmanual.pdf
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« Last Edit: 11/05/14 at 16:58:55 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #24 - 11/05/14 at 17:23:59
 
Yes I can only compare charcteristic qualities of tubes not having a ZMA. But I have done a lot of that! In this context though, there is an electronic difference between the MKIII and MKIV to the inputs, and this does seem to effect the sound of all inputs, including PCC88s. They seem bigger and fuller in general in the MKIV, but still have the open, textured quality I love.

I wonder what Steve says about PCC88 sound in the Mystery amp. It may be that the voicing choices, the power to the inputs is also different than a Torii MKIV...???

That the Telefunkens sound great with the Tungsol KT66 in Charnwood's setting, and thick with Harma/Gold Lions.....And likewise LRs first impressions with Gold Lions and GE telefunkens....seems like this could be a borderline.

I remember when I sent Steve some unburned in cryo'd 6N23Ps to check out some years ago (and me with bass issues) he said something close to: no wonder you like them, they don't have a lot of bass! On listening to them after he sent them back, I realized the bass does develop over time, as the pair I was using was the same tube but well burned in, and had more complete and musical bass. But I have not compared them directly to other types myself. Charnwood's and LR's first impressions with Gold Lions seem to support less bass from the 6N23Ps though.

Like Stone found....From the Mystery Amp manual:

"Due to the direct coupling between the two smaller tubes we recommend they be of the same type and be matched from side to side. 6N23P is a dual triode, so actually two tubes in a single bottle, which is why it’s desirable to have both halves of the tubes match. If you can’t find 4 matched tubes like this, you can get by with two matched pairs. Simply make tube location A11 and location B11 match. Then do the same for A12 and B12."

Looks like the front one, 12, is described as the input, and 11, between the power tubes, as a phase inverter. It would be interesting to try alternate tubes in one position with stock in the other, then compare them to the opposite arrangement...see what phase does and what input does!

Lots of warning about discharging the caps before tube rolling too, especially for the OA3s.

Unlike the MKIV where the OA3s filter the power to the Power tubes, and OC2s filter the inputs, best I could tell from the manual, it looks like the OA3s filter the inputs on the ZMA, also saying there are not alternatives to the OA3.

I look forward to you all's impressions and experiments with burn in!
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« Last Edit: 11/05/14 at 17:28:41 by will »  

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #25 - 11/06/14 at 14:13:45
 
Got to make it fun for sure will! ....an make sure the ZMA is fully discharged for sure.

The matched quad I'll receive of the Matsushita/National PCC88/7DJ8... .
1st - one pair in CSP3 only
2nd - try just one pair in pre of ZMA only
3rd - pair in CSP3 an ZMA
4th - the quad in ZMA only
5th scenario/Will wrote:
"It would be interesting to try alternate tubes in one position with stock in the other, then compare them to the opposite arrangement...see what phase does and what input does"!


Report what I'm hearing vs. stock tubes in the context of my System an musical tastes. ...with at least 100 hours on each scenario.
If it does not work out for my musical pleasure....ebay they go.
...on to the next matched quad....of 6922 types.
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« Last Edit: 11/06/14 at 14:22:31 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #26 - 11/06/14 at 16:00:41
 
I had some good-new/bad-news last night.

I got the Nationals in, and had an hour or two before Brianne got home, so I figured I'd play with the 6N1P and Nationals.

Well, I'm pulling the preamp tubes out of the boxes, the KT66 were already installed the other night. The Nationals slip out of their boxes no big deal, then I'm trying to pinch and pull the 6N1P out of their boxes, and one POPS on me!! It popped like it was a fragile glass Xmas ornament!

In my 30+ years of dabbling in tubes, I've never had anything like this happen...now I'm a bit clumsy, and I have strong guitar player hands...but I've never pinched a tube to death! So I quickly E-mail Ron at Cryoset - sent him a couple close up photos of the popped tube on my kitchen counter where I have enough light for a camera phone photo...and the short version, he basically said I dropped it on the granite counter, it's my problem. It sounded like a very curt piss off. I told him I'm sorry that he's probably had to deal with weirdos in the past, but I wouldn't have bothered him with this if I didn't feel this was my fault, and it's too bad he's not going to help me. The only response I got was "send them back". So we'll see how he handles this.

I've never really had cryo'd tubes before - but I understand how the process works as I've had many other things cryo'd over the years. In fact, many of the tube stores use a shop I used some 20+ years ago having Porsche parts and guitar parts cryo'd. (yes, I was way ahead of the curve there). But I don't know how glass envelops handle the cryo treatment-and asked Ron if it sometimes makes the tube fragile...no real response to this of course.

So anyways, the 6N1P are down and out and I'm sending them back tonight. I should just buy the pair in the Classifieds now and tell Ron to Piss Off, but I know he's probably just drawn out from too many idiots out there. I'm hoping we can figure this out, even if we split the cost or something. I really feel like I just got a bad tube - I mean, seriously, since when does a tube pop by hand pressure?

So the ZMA currently has the Nationals in the Input section, the stock 23P in the PI section, and the Golden Lion KT66 in the power section. Right now I don't really like what I hear - but everything is still breaking in. I'm out of town for a few days, so I'll follow up when I get back.
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« Last Edit: 11/06/14 at 16:07:58 by Lonely Raven »  
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #27 - 11/06/14 at 16:40:45
 
Wow, I'm with you, 6N1P are traditionally pretty rugged in my experience, and I think something was wonky with that one possibly. Ron has been a stellar guy for me over the years, so I hope he makes it good for you.

I've found these cryo'd 6N1P to be much better than the non-cryo'd I've used, and I've used 6N1Ps a lot over the years. Hope you get a pair in and see some improvement.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #28 - 11/06/14 at 17:20:36
 

Well it was your recommendations that lead me to go try the GL KT66 and  6N1P from Cryoset - so I'm hoping I see the same improvement that you do; though I recognize that you and I have different ultimate goals in our final sound.

I totally see where Ron is coming from, I've never had a tube pop like this, and I know he's handled it after the Cryo treatment, tested it, and documented it. I can only speak to what happened when I tried to pull it out of the box. I also made a point to tell him that I had zero damage to the packaging - which makes this even harder to believe, but it is what it is.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #29 - 11/06/14 at 18:45:53
 
We have different ultimate goals. . . and different amps! But the GL are very good tubes, I bet once they've broken in and you find the right input tubes for them you'll be really enjoying the sound. For me they really showed the Tung-Sols up.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #30 - 11/06/14 at 22:21:52
 
Well, I'm back listening to the Harma KT66's with the 6N23P's and liking what I hear. This is one smooth sounding combination, and I don't mean in the glossed over details sense.
I discovered that I have a problem with my Tung-Sol KT66's in that the bias of one of the tubes is way off. Bad enough that I can't set the correct bias on the ZMA. Not sure what I'm going to do about that.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #31 - 11/07/14 at 01:51:40
 
Well LR, I hope they burn in for you an sound good. If not you have Tong-Sol Kt's to put with Nationals. That is my approach with my 5 scenario's.

Charnwood, I will check out the Harma's. I have two quads of the 23P's.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #32 - 11/07/14 at 01:51:57
 


Quote:
I discovered that I have a problem with my Tung-Sol KT66's in that the bias of one of the tubes is way off. Bad enough that I can't set the correct bias on the ZMA. Not sure what I'm going to do about that.


Try swapping sides, and if the problem follows the tube, then it's for sure a bad tube.

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #33 - 11/08/14 at 19:22:40
 
Quote:
Try swapping sides, and if the problem follows the tube, then it's for sure a bad tube.

Yes, the problem follows the tube. Also, when I replaced the Tung-Sol's with the Harma's, one channel needed almost no bias adjustment where as the other was way off.

On a brighter note, in the last 24 hours the Harma KT66's have really opened up and it's quiet a transformation. As of this morning I'm back to pairing them with the Telefunken PCC88's and all the heaviness has gone. This pairing is now pretty well giving me everything I was hoping for.
I don't think I'll be replacing the Tung-Sol KT66's. I may, however, replace the Telefunfen PCC88's with the Telefunken E88CC's. I compared one of the PCC88's with the E88CC in my Taboo. I'll be doing that comparison again in a few weeks once the PCC88's have more time on them.
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« Last Edit: 11/08/14 at 19:28:17 by Charnwood »  

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #34 - 11/18/14 at 14:59:10
 
LR, have you tried the Nationals 7DJ8's yet? I had to get a pair in last night an I'm listening this morning. They are as Kevin described with only 11 hours on them...smooth/extended top an bottom with no exaggeration, yet very articulate and not taking away from transient attacks....an ohhh, the timbre an 3D addition of Air. I am very pleased. I am only using a pair in the Pre slots of the ZMA currently. My first of six scenario's for this tube. Let me know...I will buy them from you...if you do not like them. I am using them with the KT66 Tung-Sols...that they mate well with.

An yes, 11 hours does not make for a complete take on them. But, hopefully after a 100 hours an comparing to the 6N23P back in......will see (hear).
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« Last Edit: 11/18/14 at 15:55:04 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #35 - 11/18/14 at 20:34:09
 
LOL - I already responded to this in the other thread.

I'll report back more once I have the 6N1P in hand and I can try some swapping about.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #36 - 11/19/14 at 13:54:44
 
6N1P showed up last night. Popped them out of the boxes, popped them into the ZMA input section without incident - I think I like them better than the Nationals - but haven't really given them a chance to stretch their legs, or try with the stock KT66.

I'm off all next week, so I'll have plenty of time to listen while Brianne is at work - I should know more next week now that I have my tube lineup in hand and burning in.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #37 - 11/25/14 at 13:51:21
 
Cool Eric, glad you got that 6N1P resolved from Cyroset. I hope all went well. I am enjoying a pair of the National's (in Pre slots) with the stock KT66's. My next move is to put my other pair in the outputs of my CSP3.

Which 6N1P's did you get from Cryoset? Hope your week off is going well with Tube Rolling... .
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #38 - 11/26/14 at 15:15:43
 
Super Cryo Voshod's I assume you got. Not the GL's.

http://www.cryoset.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_24&products_id=251&osCs...

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« Last Edit: 11/26/14 at 15:18:31 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #39 - 11/27/14 at 04:11:00
 

I got the Super Cryo 6N1P - burning them in with some music and TV.

I've been super busy working on the house, and doing things for other people lately. So I'm kinda crabby and haven't done any listening since last Thursday. I tried to play some music today but couldn't get into it...just left it playing to burn in the tubes.

Hopefully tomorrow night I'll have some time to play, and I won't be in such a mood that I can't get into listening.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #40 - 11/30/14 at 07:34:50
 


I just changed Siemens E88CC 4 tubes from Europe Ebay seller to Tube Museum seller. The tubes from Tube Museum provide more than 30% sonic improvement.  It is substantial improvement. But the price of tubes from Tube Museum is more expensive than general eBay sellers of 20%.  You pay for what you get. However the tubes from Europe are much better than stock tubes.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #41 - 12/04/14 at 22:54:42
 
One of my stock Tung-Sol KT66 tubes was getting funky so I bought a matched quad of Gold Lion KT66s from Cryoset.  I don't have the aural memory or the language to describe what I hear but I'd say they are an improvement over the Tung-Sols.  One thing is that I can't bias them below 58+ ma.  They measure 36 on whatever scale is used to test while my Tung-Sols were 30 for one pair and 27 for the other.  So far the transformers are not getting over warm.  Cryoset was a pleasure to deal with and I had the tubes just a few days after ordering.  A go to place for sure!
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #42 - 12/05/14 at 16:55:06
 
I ran my ZMA with the Gold Lion KT66 tubes all day and they settled in somewhat.  The bias dropped to about 56 ma and the sound seemed more "dense" than with the Tung-Sols and also louder.  I don't know if the increase in volume is more due to the 20%+ greater tube strength than anything else?  The transformers, despite the higher bias, actually seem to be running cooler with the GLs than with the TSs.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #43 - 12/05/14 at 17:10:19
 
In the Torii Mk III and Mk II the Gold Lions (and the TADs) have made me clearly prefer them to the Tung-Sols. But the Tung-Sols still sound very good in one of my Mk IIIs; that system has Denon 100th Anniversary components as sources and they tend to be a bit thick and rich, and the Tung-Sols are a nice complement to that.

I'm so glad I tried the Gold Lions, and also glad I tried the TADs--both are fine output tubes with strong and yet refined sound.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #44 - 12/11/14 at 14:37:29
 
Has anyone tried a pair of these choices, in the Pre A12 an B12 of the ZMA?

Tungsram 6922 Platinum Grade 2 x 75. = $150
Ediswan CV2492/6922 Platinum Cryo 2 x 108. = $216.
Philips SQE88CC/6922 Platinum Grade 2 x 169. = $338.
Telefunken E88CC/6922 Platinum Grade 2 x 149. = $298.

I'm currently using a pair of Nationals in my A12 an B12 positions an enjoying the results with the stock Tung-Sol KT66's...Inverter tubes/stock 6N23P's....an 6N1P's stock in my CSP3.

I've got the Tube Rolling Bug....an "try an stop me".  ;D Cool
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« Last Edit: 12/11/14 at 14:38:43 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #45 - 12/13/14 at 13:14:16
 
stone_of_tone: I think you should consider adding a pair of Siemens A-Frame E88CC/6922 to your list.

My experience with the Harma KT66's and the Telefunken PCC88's along with the quad of Telefunken E88CC/6922's I've been using for the last 10 days or so has made me wary of tubes with a full mid-range. Both the standard tubes in the ZMA seem to me to have mid-range that's on the lean side in comparison to most of the other tubes I've tried.

I had high hopes for the Telefunken E88CC/6922, it comfortably out performs both the 6N23P and Telefunken PCC88 in my Taboo Mk3, but I've found the Telefunken E88CC's mid-range to be too full in combination with the Harma KT66's. But they may be fine with the Tung-Sol KT66's.

Fortunately, when I ordered the Telefunken E88CC's I also ordered a pair of Siemens A-frame E88CC/6922's. I'd read that the Siemens weren't so full in the mid-range, which I though might be a good thing and so it's proven.

When I first received them I put the Siemens in Pre positions 12A and 12B leaving a pair of PCC88's in positions 11A and 11B. I found the Siemens E88CC's to have excellent extension at both ends of the range. It's that lack of extension that was my main grip with the 6N23P's. The top-end extension is particularly impressive with the Siemens E88CC's.
They have a wonderfully airy and spacious sound but though they sounded a bit lean in the mid-range on some material. I then put them aside whilst I tried the Telefunken E88CC's.

Last night I decided to put the Siemens E88CC's back in, but this time I left a pair of Telefunken E88CC's in positions 11A and 11B. What a transformation! Gone was the leanness in the mid-range I detected previously. The Telefunken's wonderful mid-range made a difference. The result is an airy, open, detailed and very balanced sound.    
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« Last Edit: 12/13/14 at 13:19:59 by Charnwood »  

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #46 - 12/14/14 at 10:45:18
 
This morning I switched the position of Siemens E88CC/6922's with the Telefunken E88CC/6922's. The Siemens are now in positions 11A and 11B and the Telefunkens are in positions 12A and 12B. The Telefunkens are now the dominant tube and seems I've left the best arrangement until last. This combination brings out the best in the Telefunkens and is very seductive.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #47 - 12/15/14 at 17:11:38
 
The upfront midrange might be a bit much for me with that tube.

For now, I am enjoying the Nationals so much...I'm not rolling any others for awhile.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #48 - 12/16/14 at 02:19:11
 

The Nationals aren't doing much for me...but then, I've not tried any other configurations for two weeks due to the new El Camino speakers I'm testing out. I didn't want to muddy the water with tube changes on top of new speakers breaking in.

I have next week off, I'm hoping to get back to tube testing now that they should all have 100 or so hours on them or more.

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #49 - 12/17/14 at 16:25:42
 
Yeah, I have over 100 hours on my Nationals in the A12 an B12. I Love them...more open an relaxed with more detail/aire. Yet, great slam in the bass with extended highs.

YMMV of course, we have very different Systems for our ear brain connections.

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« Last Edit: 12/17/14 at 16:31:29 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #50 - 12/21/14 at 17:59:28
 
I replaced the Tungsol KT-66s with a matched quad of Gold Lions from Cryoset a couple weeks ago.  As I've been wandering through my vinyl I am noticing an increased resolution in song lyrics.  I assume that the increased resolution goes throughout the music.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #51 - 12/31/14 at 20:13:13
 
I'm ~NOT~ touching my Tung-Sol KT66's from Steve.  My ZMA is singing with my National's.
http://www.upscaleaudio.com/matsushita-national-pcc88-7dj8/
The whet midrange tone an clarity is to die for; while maintaining an extended timbered treble an tight defined low end delineated/bass. I've kept the 6N23P's in the Inverter stage. My CSP3 is staying with all 6N1P's.

Next up in the ZMA A12 an B12 Pre positions are:
http://www.upscaleaudio.com/telefunken-e88cc-6922/
These are not the knock off crap being reissued now. These are the real NOS deal...from the Deal.

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« Last Edit: 12/31/14 at 20:26:35 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #52 - 12/31/14 at 20:31:25
 
That's cool. I couldn't keep the Tung-Sols in the main system after hearing the Gold Lions, and then the TADs, the Tung-Sols are definiltely the ones I like least. But then I think I go for a different type of sound than you.

Isn't it great when our systems sing? I'm enjoying mine immensely this afternoon, while I can (will be away from it tonight and tomorrow damnit!)
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #53 - 12/31/14 at 20:43:36
 
Yeah, I'm out of here tonight an tomorrow too (dammit).  I don't want to shut my Rig down.

Well, we have different Amps and Cables to consider too Lon. The Nationals are a match made in heaven for the Tung-Sols. The Tele's are supposed to be too. However, I would not hesitate bringing the Gold Lion Kt66's in for the Tele's, if that is what they need.

Yes, it is great when our System's Sing! My Power Plant 3, Chord an 2nd 1030IC with the Nationals are burned in an blowing my mind.

Cheers, an Happy New Year Lon.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #54 - 12/31/14 at 20:50:08
 
Yes, different systems altogether. I just remember your comment that the PWD MK 2 did not have enough treble for you. . . and it makes my ears bleed there's so much, no DAC I've heard has not made me turn the treble down on my amp, and I praise the Lord for Steve's treble cut circuit, I can't have an amp without one (the main reason I didn't jump on the ZMA wagon).

Have a nice safe one Larry!
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #55 - 12/31/14 at 21:49:19
 
http://www.upscaleaudio.com/telefunken-e88cc-6922/

Just ordered my Tele's. Nice reviews an some Decware user's too.

Happy New Year.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #56 - 01/08/15 at 17:20:47
 
Oh boy, the Tele's came yesterday and they did not disappoint!

I put them in this morning at 6 am. They are truly beautiful an neutral. 72 hour burn from Kevin an I have 5 hours on them now. The extra special clarity, musical resolution with even more timbre while remaining tight imaged an deep, is amazing. The ZMA deserves tube rolling in the A12 an B12 inputs/pre.

Cheers, back to the Listening Room for Stone...as a snow storm rages outside. Let me know when it's May!
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #57 - 01/08/15 at 19:37:10
 


Did you replace all four, or just the front two or back two?

They are a bit expensive for me, but my GE labeled Teles that I actually got for my guitar amps sound really good. I didn't give them much time though due to the other tubes showing up.

Since I was sick for 2+ weeks straight, I didn't have any time to listen and roll tubes.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #58 - 01/09/15 at 04:14:40
 
Yeah, I hear you on being sick. I had a concussion in June an my appendix ruptured in October. Sick the first 10 days of December.

So, I treated myself to these awesome tubes from Upscale. I use a pair in the front positions A12 an B12 (see manual) inputs/pre only. I am so pleased as stated above.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #59 - 01/12/15 at 16:31:26
 
I found my combo for my CSP3 an ZMA for Pre Tubes.

I have a pair of Telefunken 6922 / CCa / 7308, for output tubes in my CSP3. In my ZMA, I have a pair of Matsushita / National PCC88 / 7DJ8, in my A12 an B12 inputs.

The absolute clean clarity neutrality of the Telefunken's putting it forth to the texture an clean grace of the National's is stunning. The System is at a whole new level of musicality.
My 2 cents, if you're tube rolling an own a CSP3 with Jupiter Caps an a Zen Mystery Amp. YMMV, due to System an Cables for sure..... .


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Footnote: The Telefunken's are to much of a good thing in my CSP3. I put the 6N1P-EV's back in. The CSP3 is perfect the way it is with Steve's tube compliment. The National's stay in the A12 an B12 inputs of my ZMA (wonderful in here).....with the rest of Steve's tube compliment = beautiful.

I will try the Tele's in my SE84CS an CKC before I sell them.
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« Last Edit: 01/12/15 at 21:14:02 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #60 - 01/20/15 at 15:24:53
 
I found the place for my Telefunken's......
http://www.upscaleaudio.com/telefunken-e88cc-6922/

...in the Input tube position of my CSP3. It is hard to mess with perfection of this Preamp (w/Jupiter Caps). However, this Telefunken (Platinum) with the 6N1P-EV's (pair for Outputs) from Steve is just brilliant running into the ZMA with his Tube Compliment. I do use Matsushita/National's (Platinum) in the Input A12 & B12 positions of my ZMA as well.
http://www.upscaleaudio.com/matsushita-national-pcc88-7dj8/

I'm sticking with this scenario for some time to come...... .


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XLO Pro Power Cords to CSP3 & ZMA
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Decware New SET Mono's pending..... .

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« Last Edit: 01/20/15 at 15:30:49 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #61 - 01/22/15 at 20:44:06
 
Happy Birthday to my ZMA! I received it one year ago today. The rest is history.

Coupled with the CSP3 (w/Jupiter Caps) and the Input Tube compliments mentioned in my above post (an System) = musical involvement!

Hey, the dooms day clock got moved to 3 minutes to midnight today. Enjoy some music with Decware.........today!
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #62 - 01/22/15 at 21:44:05
 

LOL - I did a not quite so quiet celebration of my ZMA on the 7th. Smiley

At least, I think it was the 7th I got my ZMA. I'd have to go back through that long thread where we spend pages pining over the build list.  :)
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #63 - 02/19/15 at 14:13:10
 
Stone,

What order would you recommend rolling with the ZMA/CSP3/ZP3 in order to get the most bang for the buck?

I suspect it would be working the inputs  starting with the source ZP3=>CSP3=>ZMA, only  then looking at the outputs.  Or would you roll the ZP3 inputs and outputs before moving to the CSP3/ZMA?



What is your take?

Thanks
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #64 - 02/19/15 at 18:05:50
 
I can't comment on the ZP3. I do have a Vinyl Rig though in my SS System. One day, maybe a ZP3 for me too.

I would work the inputs as you can see I have done, with the Telefunken an Nationals. I am pleased with the results. I have the ZDSD coming in to run direct to my ZMA. However, I love my CSP3 with my Telefunken as input tube. Will see how direct vs. through CSP3 sounds.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #65 - 02/20/15 at 14:02:06
 
Farmboss, I did try the pair of my Tele's (listed above) an my pair of National's in the outputs of the CSP3 an did not like the results. Those 6N1P's from Steve are awesome for outputs on this Pre. So, for me, it is the Tele for Input only on the CSP3 an my pair of National's (listed above) for Inputs A12 an B12 on my ZMA. I did try both pair's in the A12 an B12 too....but prefer the National's in the ZMA Inputs.

Kevin's Tubes at Upscale are worth it. He specializes in Input/Pre an Pre/Output for a reason...not Power Tubes. Pre tubes make the most difference for sure. But, of course it is a matter of taste/preference in that difference. The CSP3 an ZMA voiced and Tubed by Steve is wonderful as is. However, the shocking beauty an clarity of the Telefunken feeding the 6N1P's from Steve is awesome. Furthermore, the extended highs and even tighter Bass of the National's with a textured Midrange in the ZMA's A12 an B12 I love in conjunction with the Tele Tube in the CSP3 Input.
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« Last Edit: 02/20/15 at 14:06:30 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #66 - 02/20/15 at 14:21:34
 
Stone, if you like those stock Russian tubes Steve sends in the CSP3, you'll love those in the link below from a Russian Seller.  I believe they are older 1960's versions with triple Micas of the same type Steve uses.  Syd (Marky) and I both bought a pair and mine aren't going anywhere.  Shortly after, I changed the other Russian tube Steve sent to an Amperex 7308.  I can't remember which forum member turned Syd and I on to these tubes but they are great and worth the money and the wait.  Mark.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-RAREST-MATCHED-BALANCED-PAIR-6N1P-E-military-boxed-a...
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #67 - 02/20/15 at 17:39:25
 
funch turned us on to them Mark. Natural sound thats big and tries to wrap around at every opportunity if the album has great sonics, worth some experimentation in the single spot on the CSP. I`m so tube unsavvy that I thought all 3 tubes did the same job.
Now I`ve got the ZP3 down to  managable rolling combinations for now, I can address that 6dj8,7dj8,6n1p,6922 spot on the CSP.
Stones Tele is well worth a look.
On the other hand a quad would be nice as the Rachaels use them and I could free the Bugle Boys up....or just buy a B/Boy to try.
Syd
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« Last Edit: 02/20/15 at 19:11:18 by Syd »  

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #68 - 02/21/15 at 22:51:01
 
Anyone roll EL34 (6CA7) tubes yet? If so, is there a characteristic sound difference with EL34's over the stock KT66's?
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #69 - 02/25/15 at 13:37:52
 
I am using Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z's now, only because they have been rocking it out in my Rachel for the past 6 months.  

I have been following along this thread and rolled 5881s and cryoed Gold Lion KT66's as output. 5881s were dang good (russian 6P3S-E coin base), but I had high expectations for the KT's.  Not so much.  I hit reset with outputs and tried rolling the Tele's and the Nationals from Upscale as drivers.  Tele's were thin and too focused on top end for me.  To be fair, I only gave them about 40 hours, so I need to revisit.  Nationals were lush, but not a great combo with the KT66s.  Finally went back to the 6N23P and have been pretty satisfied.

I decided to retry the output rolling.  I got a matched quad of the shuguang 6CA7-Z's, and I was shocked.  They are truly amazing in the extension of both ends, as well as their clarity and presence.  No harshness on the highs.  Liquid, deep and real.  You know the moment when you exhale and just get absorbed in the music.  These tubes brought me there.  For the past week, I can't wait to turn on the ZMA each day and listen.  It is the sound I had been hoping for from the Mystery amp.

My next attempt will be the Shuguang treasure KT88-Z.  May take a few weeks to ship.

In case you're wondering about whether the setup is impacting the tubes, I'm running ZDAC to ZMA to level 3 Anticables to Klipsch KLF-30s (rebuilt Xovers and Ti tweeter diaphragm).  

Try these 6CA7-Zs out.  They're pretty awesome.

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #70 - 02/25/15 at 13:41:55
 
Cool. I have fallen in love with the KT66 sound in my Toriis so I probably won't move back to the 6CA7 sound but I bet these are good, and there's a lot of great listening with that tube type I bet in the ZMA (I know there is in the Toriis, I listened to several brands for a few years it seems).

I must say though that in my recent experiencee cryo'd Gold Lion KT66 took over 100 hours to really became what they promise to be and even more to really season and become jaw-dropping.  If you can stand to break them in further you may find they sound better than they have. If not, I bet you could sell a quad here pretty easily. . . .
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #71 - 02/25/15 at 13:54:17
 
Thanks for the recommendation, Lon.  I'll take you up on it.  Given the positive reviews all around I need to give the Gold Lions a better shot at it. After weeks of rolling, it's just hard to think about changing right now from the 6CA7s the sound is so phenomenal.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #72 - 02/25/15 at 13:57:10
 
I totally understand that! I have a great tube complement in my main system right now and am loathe to change one single part of it. I did roll a pair of Hytron OB2 tubes in place of RCA OA2 tubes and the sound was so . . . not right. . . with this complement that within 4 hours they were out and the RCA was back. It's amazing how each tube type is vital in these revealing amps, and synergy once found is hard to tamper with!
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #73 - 02/25/15 at 13:59:17
 
Wow, the ZMA has been out a year plus! What a fast year that was in so many ways. (Mine speeded up wildly the minute Lucinda stepped into my life in May). Here it is about to be bumped from "new amp" status by the Torii Mk V.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #74 - 02/25/15 at 14:03:45
 
That's great BVictor.  I'm using PSVANE 6ca7-t in my Torii III and just can't take them out.  I completely agree with your well written description.

JD
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #75 - 02/25/15 at 14:54:05
 
OK,  I'm curious...where did you buy these...russian 6P3S-E coin base.  Tell me more.  Thinking of these for a Torii mK IV.  Mark.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #76 - 02/26/15 at 01:44:02
 
Can we run KT-88's?   I though KT-77 was the limit.  Or more to the point what is available that would give max output?
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #77 - 02/26/15 at 16:40:15
 
Steve wrote KT88 as an alt tube in the ZMA manual.  

You can get the coin base 5881 (6P3S-E from Saratov plant)  from www.cryoset.com   ($32.99 for a cryoed mached pair).

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #78 - 02/26/15 at 16:44:17
 
bvictor,  after doing a google search, I found that yesterday.  If I buy them that's where I'll go.  Thanks,  Mark.
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"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils;
The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted." William Shakespeare
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #79 - 02/26/15 at 16:59:04
 
Hey Mark,  I think they are excellent tubes for the price, in fact I bought a second quad just in case they begin to run out of stock.  After hearing them a friend of mine in DC bought a quad as well.  Hope you like them.  Brian
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #80 - 02/26/15 at 17:41:51
 
Brian,  I just ordered a Quad.  There were very few available on ebay and no quads and no US sellers.  Jim McShane that used to have them according to older threads else where also has none.  I also ordered a cryoed version of the valve arts 274b that I use in my CSP3.  Mark.
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"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils;
The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted." William Shakespeare
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #81 - 02/26/15 at 19:41:51
 
Couldn`t resist it  :)
Been doing a lot of research on them.
Mainly positive.
My Tesla EL 34`s will get their r`n`r.

ps I think it`s that seller that has some with whopping great bases. Maybe not the E suffix.
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« Last Edit: 02/26/15 at 19:44:40 by Syd »  

Decware: Rachaels x 2 bridged, C. SP2+, ZP3, ZMC1, DSC i/c`s, DHC-1 pw/cbl`s Michell Orbe + SME V + M.Benz LP s , Nakamichi LX5, Lowther acoustas DX2`s, WE 16g sp/cbl`s, Isotek mains sub
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #82 - 02/26/15 at 19:48:28
 
Syd,  this time you followed me.  Let's hope they sound good.  They are circa 1980's NOS Russian Military tubes and I've found more good than bad impressions on the internet.  Prior to researching these, I was going to buy the 6L6GC reissues Lon bought from cryoset for $95 that he likes.  Hope I made the right choice because I don't think I'll be buying anymore power tubes soon.  Let me add that there will be a 50 to 100 hour burn in period before everything gels according to other users.  Mark.

PS...the ones with the coin bases are supposed to be much better sounding than the larger black bases.

PSS...Syd,  I emailed Alex, our Russian seller, to ask if he had these...he did not have any more of them.  Of course he said the two other types he had were better...yeah right!
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« Last Edit: 02/26/15 at 19:57:55 by mark58 »  

"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils;
The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted." William Shakespeare
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #83 - 02/26/15 at 20:17:41
 
Twin flying saucer getters Mark !
Thanks for the 50-100 hrs burn in info, I glossed over that.
Cant think what I fancied as a second quad. Oh thats right I was toying with the idea of KT 66`s or the ones that are ok, 77`s 88`s. I always have to refer back to the Rachael info page.
Syd.

Ps I hope you get yours by the Fall.  :)
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« Last Edit: 02/26/15 at 20:18:29 by Syd »  

Decware: Rachaels x 2 bridged, C. SP2+, ZP3, ZMC1, DSC i/c`s, DHC-1 pw/cbl`s Michell Orbe + SME V + M.Benz LP s , Nakamichi LX5, Lowther acoustas DX2`s, WE 16g sp/cbl`s, Isotek mains sub
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #84 - 02/26/15 at 20:28:27
 
LOL Syd,  in this case, with a US seller using the US Postal Service, I should get them within a week...not over two months.  I did find a Russian site that sold them for $11 but I think it's money well spent to get them Cryo treated from a US Seller for $16.50 each. Mark.

PS...when I bought the Torii MK IV, I ordered it with the Tung Sol KT-66 but when I bought a used pair of RFT EL-34s, I loved the sound so much better that they have never come out.  I have come to the conclusion that I need to give the KT-66s a fair trial someday.  I doubt they're even broken in.
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« Last Edit: 02/26/15 at 20:34:06 by mark58 »  

"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils;
The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted." William Shakespeare
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #85 - 02/26/15 at 20:58:12
 
They`ll have to be good to better the old Teslas.
Hope mine get out of the Ukraine ok.
Syd

You`ve not had a look at the Emission Labs 5u4 mesh ?
It`s on my bucket list.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #86 - 02/26/15 at 21:10:40
 
Syd,  you bought them from a Ukrainian seller?...mmm.  I've found 2 Russian sellers who sell them for 11 or 12 dollars...not on ebay.  Mark.

PS...I think I read about that rectifier in someone's "Rectifier Shoot Out"...maybe on headfi.  I won't spend that much on rectifiers.

PSS...when I initially looked on ebay, I must have used the wrong name for these tubes because when I looked just now there are lots of sellers...including many from the Ukraine.  But mine will be cryoed...hehe.
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« Last Edit: 02/26/15 at 21:59:46 by mark58 »  

"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils;
The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted." William Shakespeare
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #87 - 02/26/15 at 23:06:04
 
Well Damn,  Ron at cryoset just emailed me that they are out of the Russian tubes I ordered. He is offering a 10% discount if I order something else.  I'll have to think about this.  

Syd,  give me the link where you bought yours, please.  I may wait and see how you like them. Oh well,  that's what I get for waiting. Mark.
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"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils;
The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted." William Shakespeare
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #88 - 02/27/15 at 17:45:04
 
Hi Mark, funeral duty today, long drives + a nap when I got back.
We`re still in the ZMA thread but common tubes . I checked Rons site before I bought and thought you had bought these leaving one or two quads available.
Heres the link, double the postage of the 6n1p-E`s but twice the amount of tubes. Oh, Mark I think he`s out of them as well.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/181620057977?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=S...
says he gives 5% discount for paypal ???
Syd

He has pairs available here.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6P3S-E-6L6-6L6GT-Matched-Selected-Pair-Gold-Grid-NOS-N...

These look a good price, much better than mine, same tubes
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6P3S-E-5881-6L6GC-Tubes-Gold-Logo-Gold-Grid-Lot-of-4-P...

Says he gives 5% discount for paypal ???
Syd
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« Last Edit: 02/27/15 at 18:20:40 by Syd »  

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #89 - 02/28/15 at 00:04:39
 

That last one says LOT of 4, not really matched quad. You might have to buy a few lots and match them up yourself.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #90 - 02/28/15 at 00:29:29
 
Syd, LR,  I'm not too wild about buying from these places but if I decide I want the tubes I may have to.  I think I may buy from a Russian tube seller and ask for tests to verify that I'm getting a matched quad...I have no way to test them myself.  Ron said he had gotten 400 of the tubes originally but quite a few were not usable, so I wouldn't want to buy from a foreign seller that doesn't test and match.  I would really prefer to buy from a US seller but I don't think that's possible now.  I'll do some digging around.  Might even get something different.  A used quad of RCA Black plate 6L6GCs went for $152 recently...a bit more than I'd like to pay...those are supposed to be real nice tubes.  

Syd, looking at those sites, it seems like a lot of these tubes have sold in the last 24 hours.  Who's buying these?  Besides Syd and Brian?  Mark.
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« Last Edit: 02/28/15 at 00:31:11 by mark58 »  

"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils;
The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted." William Shakespeare
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #91 - 02/28/15 at 12:29:48
 
I really dont know Mark. I never checked for dates on the reviews I read. There might be a "buzz" floating around. Perhaps Ron at Cryoset gave a good review. I see he say`s his non-E version ( which he does have )has longer plates and is sweeter. Interesting LR mentioning the lot of four not garaunteed as matched. Got to agree there. Does the Decware self biasing match them up, and if NIB how far out could they be ?
I`ve come down to earth now I`ve bought them. Should I really be thinking £9ea V £50ea Teslas is a fair shoot out ? No I wont be comparing. It`ll be a different presentation, and at this moment in time thats as far as it goes. I`ll be running them on a cd loop daytime and taking them out in the evening. As much as I`d like to hear them burning in I cant afford giving up quality litening time.
Syd.

I`ve seen a nos pair from 1963 and a nos quad from 1981. Dont know what mine are.
The original photo you posted in `Whats spinning` is still there with sets available. I would have bought those but didn`t see them as you have to scroll down miles to the international sellers. Moldovia, Romania, etc.
I wonder what compatible  Russian tube will pop up next.
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« Last Edit: 02/28/15 at 13:08:53 by Syd »  

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #92 - 02/28/15 at 14:56:10
 
Syd, the reviews I read except for those here were from years ago...I think.  To me the difference in price means very little.  Of course there are rather arbitrary limits to what I will pay...seems to change from day to day.  Like most things, it's a matter of supply and demand...and so far the demand for the NOS 80's Russian tubes isn't high enough to have caused the supply to become scarce, at least in former USSR countries.  If you read Joe's Tube Lore you'll see some of the prices he occasionally quotes...if only we could get those tubes for the prices back then..late 90's I believe.  His review probably had a hand in popularizing and making known many of the tubes he reviewed. Even the tubes you and I bought from Alex in Russia, have gone up $6 since our purchases, maybe due to those who bought after reading our praises.

My interest in the 6L6 type power tubes was to find a warmer presentation than the RFT EL-34s.  In recent reading I was coming to realize that included in all the traits I love about these tubes there is also an extended or pronounced high end that I don't particularly enjoy with quite a few recordings.  To tell you the truth though, since my experiments with resistors in the HR-1s this issue is becoming less important.  I may cool my jets on trying new power tubes for now.  I may pop in the KT-66s I already have to see what most people here are raving about...as I've learned with time, I probably hadn't even broken them in properly.  I will await others impressions of these coin based Russian Military power tubes and would definitely try them if a US seller stocked matched Quads for a reasonable price.  Mark.

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"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils;
The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted." William Shakespeare
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #93 - 02/28/15 at 18:01:05
 
Mark, Considering your criteria of warm with less top end, this tube may just work in your MKIV. In mine, I find it is warm and wettish, but with quite open and clear mids and top...they have an open lushness that is mellower than the RFTs, smoother up top, but still lucid. The Genalex KT66s are drier, less lush and perhaps a little step further into bass warmth, but similar mids warmth. The Genalex also have a bit less liquid upper mids, even a little bit tinselly by comparison...at least in this room, with this tube set, and the treble knob wide open. Mazda GZ32, Sylvania 40s OB3, Mullard E88CC, British 75C1. This is what I searched on Ebay when I got mine.

6P3S-E

I think I will leave them in for a while to re-explore! They sound really good here.

For what it is worth, I got them from this seller in Ukraine

http://stores.ebay.com/svetlanaukraine/_i.html?rt=nc&_pgn=3&_ipg=48

The tubes were good and everything went well. I can't recall exactly, but I am pretty sure I was after 80's tubes with gold grids...maybe some review recommended them??? If the reflector diamond and numbers are dates, mine seem to be 80 and 89, but with exactly the same construction. I think they were listed as 80s and I asked for a matched quad before buying. I would guess he may be able to give you specific matched dates too. Mine were about 60 delivered. I see he has some that look to be from the 60s for more $....I wonder what those would sound like?
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« Last Edit: 02/28/15 at 18:06:45 by will »  

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #94 - 02/28/15 at 18:30:11
 
Will,  I had been researching those for a while when I posted here for some user impressions.  Brian had them and really liked them.  The day before, I knew they were available in matched cryoed quads from Cryoset but didn't pull the trigger until Brian's endorsement. Unfortunately Brian decided to buy what would turn out to be the last Quad Ron had available...the Bastard...hehe.  So now I'm reconsidering.  It is very helpful to have had fellow forum members who have bought from and had a good experience with a foreign seller.  I'm always reluctant otherwise. My exchange was in the ZMA tube rolling thread even though I have a Torii MK IV as you do. Thanks,  Mark

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« Last Edit: 02/28/15 at 19:11:08 by mark58 »  

"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils;
The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted." William Shakespeare
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #95 - 02/28/15 at 22:08:41
 
OK, I did it!  I bought the 6P3S-E tubes...  two pair of 60's tubes from the Photon Plant and a Quad of those reflectors from the Saratov plant from the 70's....from the seller Will bought from.  I hope they're good because I could have had that RCA Black Plate Quad for what I paid. The search is over...for now. Mark.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/181300188954?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STR...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/171604076434?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STR...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/171604080168?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STR...
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"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils;
The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted." William Shakespeare
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #96 - 03/01/15 at 01:42:56
 
Well that is digging in Mark! If they are similar to these 80s Reflektors, I am guessing they may be what you are after...I hope so...of the tubes I have they are similar/closest to the RFT sound, but notched back a bit, nicely so to me...sort of between the EL34s and KT66.
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« Last Edit: 03/01/15 at 01:52:19 by will »  

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #97 - 03/01/15 at 01:58:20
 
Will, the reflektors I bought are like yours only they were manufactured in '71, '77, '77 and '78...all have the same test values.  Now the others where made in the 60's in the Photon plant that preceded the Saratov Plant where the Reflektors were made.  The seller said they were better so I thought I'd give them a shot.  I tried to get him to come off his price but the best he'd do is combine shipping at $23.  We'll see how they play in the Torii but sounds like after break in they should be at least good if not great. The tubes Cryoset still has the ones with out the E and big bases, are from the late 80's and aren't supposed to be as good. I've been looking at what he has so I can take advantage of his 10% discount but don't see anything I'd want right now except the Valve Art 274B that can wait...I've got two from Steve. Mark.
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« Last Edit: 03/01/15 at 13:02:33 by mark58 »  

"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils;
The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted." William Shakespeare
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #98 - 03/01/15 at 04:13:12
 
Sounds good. Seems with tubes, earlier is very often better. Hope they fit in your system!
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #99 - 03/04/15 at 11:57:19
 
Tubes arrived today Mark. It`s noon. I`ll put them in in half hour after coffee. They look nice, shorter than EL34`s.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #100 - 03/04/15 at 12:12:54
 
Syd,  as usual you're way ahead of me.  I paid for mine on Saturday but for some reason ebay/paypal didn't use the 200+ cash in the account or my Credit Card as they usually do...they paid with an E Check from my bank that wasn't debited until Monday and who knows how many days it will take to clear to the seller.  In other words, my tubes haven't even shipped yet.

I'm eager to hear your impressions.  Mark.
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« Last Edit: 03/04/15 at 12:40:48 by mark58 »  

"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils;
The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted." William Shakespeare
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #101 - 03/04/15 at 14:00:50
 
If we`ve got the same seller he`s excellent Mark. Sent me an e-mail to say they`d shipped and a positive note with it.
I let them warm up for an hour and then remembered I should play a cd on repeat. Turned the sound off, started the cd and hit repeat.
I tentatively increased the volume untill I could just hear it, but then gave it a quick burst for 2 seconds. Sounded better than I could imagine, that is, no distortion due to being new. I turned the volume back down and left the room feeling +ve. I`ll be listening to them through burn in.
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« Last Edit: 03/04/15 at 14:01:25 by Syd »  

Decware: Rachaels x 2 bridged, C. SP2+, ZP3, ZMC1, DSC i/c`s, DHC-1 pw/cbl`s Michell Orbe + SME V + M.Benz LP s , Nakamichi LX5, Lowther acoustas DX2`s, WE 16g sp/cbl`s, Isotek mains sub
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #102 - 03/04/15 at 14:16:19
 
Syd,  I did buy from the same seller as you and Will.  If anyone still wants these tubes he's relisted the Quad ad.  Mark.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6P3S-E-6L6-6L6GT-Matched-Selected-Quad-Gold-Grid-NOS-N...
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"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils;
The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted." William Shakespeare
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #103 - 03/04/15 at 18:43:26
 

I bought some from the same seller as well. He didn't have any quads up, so I bought two pair. I figure if I don't love them in the ZMA, I have a few guitar amps that will enjoy them.  :)

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #104 - 03/04/15 at 20:39:07
 
Quote:
Syd,  I did buy from the same seller as you and Will.  If anyone still wants these tubes he's relisted the Quad ad.  Mark.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6P3S-E-6L6-6L6GT-Matched-Selected-Quad-Gold-Grid-NOS-N....


Thanks for the link.  I jumped on the band wagon and ordered a quad at $69 delivered.
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« Last Edit: 03/04/15 at 20:40:54 by Archie »  
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #105 - 03/04/15 at 21:01:46
 
You're welcome, Archie.  Mark.
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"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils;
The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted." William Shakespeare
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #106 - 03/04/15 at 21:20:16
 
Initial impressions. Very clear, bass a little polite but good. Lots of detail. Long way to go before they bloom.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #107 - 03/05/15 at 18:41:51
 
I took a TFK 12au7 out of the ZP3 which I had put in to attenuate the bass a bit, before these tubes came along, and put the previous Mullard back in. Balance restored. Eerie
I`ve put a Brimar in now. Nice

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« Last Edit: 03/05/15 at 18:48:57 by Syd »  

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #108 - 03/05/15 at 19:18:37
 
Syd,  are you talking Mullard 12AU7?  and a Brimar what?  rectifier...5R4GY?    And were talking just the ZP3? With new Russian tubes in the Torii. Mark.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #109 - 03/05/15 at 19:42:28
 
Mark, the Mullard 12au7 seemed good but I thought I might as well try the Brimar 12au7 and it was a good fit, bit more organised.

Just had a big moment. Sonny Rollins sax went distorted and so did Jim Halls guitar. I was twiddlng valves, replaced the Brimar for a miniwatt. Put it down to the new tubes burning in. Turned the record over, big lump of fluff on the needle. That was a relief.
Put the Brimar back in.
Started out with Crimson because I wanted to check the bass. The Mullard overdid it a bit.
Staying on jazz for now.
Instruments are coming out of a blacker background so it seems a bit wierder than normal. I can hear the ambience trying to get through.

Also the volume is deceptive. First thing I did was to turn  it up to compensate for the bass.  I`m still slightly higher than the EL34`s but yesterday I was getting close to maxing out. The CSP2+` pres were on max and volume around 85%. Now the CSP`s pre out is back 2 notches and the pre in back 1 notch with volume at 65%.
There was a distance aspect at first, like you were a way back and `looking` further to see the music.
It`s shifting and getting closer.

Oh thats nice. Side one of KOB sounded thin. Side two started and I just turned the volume up just a shade and everything came together.
lol I still dont know Coltrane from Adderly. I allways guess. First solo first track Coltrane ?
Flamenco Sketches, the way Davis just hints at the theme is awesome.
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« Last Edit: 03/05/15 at 21:51:59 by Syd »  

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #110 - 03/06/15 at 19:20:54
 
A 10hr loop of Aphex Twin today. Imagine being tied to the chair through that.   :-[

The tubes have 20 hrs on them. Hendrix Isle Of White : The bass is monumental Drums snappy, delicate, with air, the snare is vibrating at times, Hendrix guitar is very detailed. The next 80 hrs should be good.

Mark, your `60s and `70s sets........
Think mine are `81, if that the date written on them.

Troubador JJ Cale : Love JJ, lots of clever layers. I do like the new presentation. I dont like to say it but I`m connecting in a +ve way, expecting new details.
Syd.
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« Last Edit: 03/06/15 at 19:22:27 by Syd »  

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #111 - 03/06/15 at 19:39:11
 
Syd,  that's correct, my two quads are 60's and 70's sets.  The seller acknowledged yesterday that he had gotten notice of the payment I made on 2/28.  So mine should be shipped soon.

Your impressions sound promising.  I'm also glad that they are sounding good with as little as 20 hours on them.  Mark.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #112 - 03/06/15 at 20:22:32
 
Yes they`ve definitely turned a corner Mark. It`s good not to faff around and just enjoy. I thought they might be underpowered but my settings are now back to normal and the volume level is where I like it. They are drawing 40 ma.

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #113 - 03/06/15 at 22:44:18
 
Hey guys,  just back to this thread.  Syd, sounds like you are liking the 6P3S-E's so far.  I'm glad to read it.   I'm still digging the Shuguang Treasure 6CA7-Z's.  They're more pricey than the coin base 6P3S, but wow, great right out of the gate from the moment current hit them.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #114 - 03/07/15 at 00:22:58
 
Hi bvictor, just read a great write up for the Shuguangs. Bet they look nice in the Rachael and well worth the money. I wish all power tubes were decorated. If only they could have forseen them being on show back in the day Smiley
The 6P3S-E`s are a follow up to some tubes some of us bought for the CSP`s, a 6n1p-E, Russian made as well. They are excellent and a low price. Both have those small dish getters with a dimple ( flying saucers ) The 6P3S-E have 2 getters. Bit of a long shot, they have had good reviews and are shaping up on the right track.
I read about the detail your Shuguangs are capable of. Now that would be something if the 6P3S-E`s could get somewhere near.
Syd.

Oh, I see you have the ZMA. So you have 4 Shuguangs.
lol this is the ZMA thread. I got hijacked into here. Honest. Smiley
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« Last Edit: 03/07/15 at 00:27:14 by Syd »  

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #115 - 03/18/15 at 00:20:40
 
I received the matched quad of 6P3S-E Russian tubes today (under 2 weeks from the Ukraine -- not bad!) and I thought I'd share my first impressions.  They bias on my ZMA at a max of 60 mA whereas my cryo'd Gold Lion KT-66s biased at a minimum of not much less.  The quad seems matched well and very stable.  The seem to play much louder that the GLs but the bass seems a bit light.  I think Syd mentioned that his were a bit bass light too.  I'll keep them in for a while and see if they bloom on the bottom end.  I do like the increase in volume though.  For $69/quad they seem like a great bargain.  My GLs were $189/quad.  They will probably end up as a back up to my GLs.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #116 - 03/18/15 at 10:57:52
 
I could write a lot about them Archie, they went through a number of changes. The bass was light then warmed up but got in a muddle behind the drummer, like he had a cloak over him. 20 hrs gave them a listenable take but something was missing. 40 hrs and they got involving. I`m on about 50hrs+ and wont be taking them out. They are just starting to deliver the goods. Last night was another milestone when I played H. Wolfs Lon. Sessions. I`ve been nailed to the listening seat for a while.
As always it`s a credit to Decware that I can monitor all the improvements with confidence.
And of course Mark who flagged them up.
They are on my saved searches so I can spot a `60`s set.
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« Last Edit: 03/18/15 at 11:10:10 by Syd »  

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #117 - 03/18/15 at 16:29:06
 
Thanks for your comments Syd.  I'll be sure to give them a good burn in.  After  a few hours of listening I started to like them more.  And they do have a pretty strong blue glow!  :D
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #118 - 03/18/15 at 17:00:29
 

Still waiting on my Russian tubes. Must be coming on a slow boat from...Romania or wherever.

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #119 - 03/18/15 at 19:18:24
 
The ebay seller Yura, who goes by svetlana_ua was awesome.  Very communicative and on the ball.  Hardly took longer than ordering from Cyoset!
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #120 - 03/19/15 at 03:42:25
 
Tubes showed up today. Good, sexy midrange. Smooth treble. But you give up bass and attack compared to KT66

Not bad for the money.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #121 - 03/22/15 at 20:41:41
 
LR, is your bass coming in at all with the new tubes?  Mine seems to be or I can't remember what I had with the GL KT66s.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #122 - 03/23/15 at 18:07:59
 
Bass isn't bad, it's just not big and punchy like with the KT66. I think the attack on the KT66 is nicer, which also makes the bass better.

But for what I paid, these are pretty good tubes! And they haven't drifted after 30 hours of playback! I may have to keep these in storage, and pick up another pair for guitar amp use.

I'm already back to my stock KT66, and I put my GE Labeled Telefunkin (at least the sticker says Telefunkin on it - I have no idea what they really are). I have them in the PI section, and they really liven up the music. Everything sounds...I don't know, happier. Brighter and more airy without being edgy or piercing. I really need to figure out what these tubes are and buy a backup set! It's rare that a tube makes more than a slight difference in my system - so this is one I'd like to stock up on.
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« Last Edit: 03/23/15 at 18:08:33 by Lonely Raven »  
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #123 - 03/23/15 at 18:28:56
 
I don't recall how long the Russian 6P3S-E take to burn in, but generally for me 30 is not close for power tubes. Also I think it is always the bass that is slowest to define with the ones I have used in Toriis...EL34 and KT66/5881/6L6 types.

Not that the Russians will sound like the Tungsol KT66, they won't, but I guess you will need at least 100 to hear them fully. I have had some power tubes (when I was sort of counting) take over 200.
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« Last Edit: 03/23/15 at 18:30:38 by will »  

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #124 - 03/28/15 at 17:28:45
 
When counting hours for the purpose of breaking in tubes, do the total hours count or just the hours the amp is playing music?  My amps seem to be on 2+ times as long as I play music through them.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #125 - 03/28/15 at 20:50:36
 
Archie,

Whatever it is...signal cable, amp, cap or tube, I always think of it as music time with all its electronic variations.
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« Last Edit: 03/28/15 at 20:51:09 by will »  

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #126 - 03/29/15 at 00:48:42
 
Thanks Will. That's what I figured but I was hoping it might be differnt with tubes.  I am liking these Russian 6P3s-Es.  After a few more weeks I might try my GL KT66s again to see if I'm missing anything.  Sure doesnt' seem like it.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #127 - 03/29/15 at 16:21:26
 
I am trying out some EL34's this morning in my ZMA. They will only bias to about 38-39 on the meters. I know Steve says best between 40-50. Will this cause any problems? Hard on transformers?
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #128 - 03/29/15 at 18:29:17
 
Archie,

Sounds good. I am listening to the GL KT66 in the MKIV now. I really like that tube. For me, though I like tube sets with different overall tonal characters, my "requirements" for sound balance have become so specific, I really am glad to have selection of nice rectifiers, VRs, inputs and power tubes. You Mystery folks have two inputs and power tubes, right? Less tubes to have to own, and less adjustment potential too. But then the bias must be a nice tuning tool.

I recall the manual saying that the OA3s are not to be changed to another regulator type, like OB3 in the Mystery. But since the VR is in front of the inputs, and the input/phase tubes drive the power tubes, it would seem to me a tube that might be fun to explore. I have a number of OA3s, and they all shift the Toriis in their own ways...different. I wonder what Steve would think of trying different OA3s? If the amp ships with those pictured, they look like black based RCAs, really nice tubes, but also they have a particular flavor that is its own within the tube type.
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« Last Edit: 03/29/15 at 20:39:24 by will »  

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #129 - 03/29/15 at 19:11:57
 
lLance,

As always, when in doubt, contact Steve.  However, I've talked to him about bias before and I think we need to worry about the higher settings and not the lower.  My transformers run hotter with higher bias.  I'm running at 52 mA right now because that's as low as I can go on my Russian 6P3S-E tubes.  Steve runs his bias CONSIDERABLY higher but he admits that as the factory, he can repair his amp if he damages it.  He suggested that we could run maybe as much as 1/3 higher bias but only for a couple of hours at a time.  My transformers seem to run at about 120 F and I think their design point is over 140 F. I did install a small fan behind my ZMA to blow air over my transformers since I figure if heat was the enemy, I'd dissipate some of it.  And it helps warm my room in the winter!
 :D
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #130 - 03/29/15 at 20:44:17
 
From the Mystery Amp manual:

"This amplifier is designed to operate with a 50ma bias on each output tube.
Running higher bias currents for any length of time will overheat the power supply
transformers and could cause pre-mature failure. We recommend no more than
60ma per tube at any point. Running less is not an issue for the power supply but
doing so will reduce the power output of the tubes and change how they sound.
Some will use this technique as an esoteric voicing tool."
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #131 - 03/29/15 at 21:33:24
 
Thanks Will and Archie
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #132 - 05/05/15 at 00:49:18
 
Stone,

I have been working my way through the input sections, starting with the phono stage (using RCA triple Mica) then the preamp (http://www.upscaleaudio.com/amperex-7308-vintage-gold-pin/).  

Taking a bit of your advice I bought a pair of the nationals and put them into the preamp slots of the ZMA.

Mostly I listen to Classic 70's hard rock and big band.  I never felt I had understood the term "relaxed" before, but I totally felt that the nationals transformed the ZMA so I was experiencing the relaxed sound.  Great highs and a really wide soundstage.  The downside I experienced was that with rock I lost a lot of the PRAT.  It seemed this is a trade off that works fine with music with singers and the big band sound but is not acceptable with say ZZ Top.  

Granted I only have 10 hours of burn in on the nationals but I moved them over to the preamp in the output stage to burn in.  They actually sound pretty good there and I get a lot more PRAT out of the entire system.  I may leave the there but I will revisit moving them back to the ZMA after some more seasoning.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #133 - 05/05/15 at 02:41:17
 
Good to hear FB. I really like them in the ZMA Inputs A12 an B12. But I need to try them in the Outputs of the Pre with 6N23P's back in the A12 an B12 tomorrow. Cool.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #134 - 05/05/15 at 03:27:26
 
Quote:
Great highs and a really wide soundstage.  The downside I experienced was that with rock I lost a lot of the PRAT.


The lack of PRAT is why I didn't like the nationals. Good sound, but I lost something that the ZMA does well.

IMHO - I'm going for air and detail with silky top end. I'm still looking for that.

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #135 - 05/05/15 at 14:02:45
 
I have no lack of PRAT, especially with my Modified Adagio's. However, I use a Telefunken: http://www.upscaleaudio.com/telefunken-e88cc-6922/
for my Input Tube/CSP3 ....that is so in command of orchestrating the 6N1P-EV's from Steve-the Output Tubes of my CSP3.....it works well driving into the National's.

I have two of the Telefunken and worked them as a Pair in the Outputs of the CSP3 and Inputs on A12 an B12 of my ZMA. But, need it as the Master and Commander as an Input Tube on the CSP3 only.

I do need to put the Nationals, as I mentioned, as a pair Out-putting from my CSP3 though. I have not tried that combination.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #136 - 05/08/15 at 14:58:26
 
I've had the 6N23P's back in the A12 an B12 positions for a couple days now, with my CSP3 of course with the Tube compliment detailed above.
As great as the 6N23P's are and I will enjoy over the weekend before taking them out..........I need/enjoy more of the top air extension and deep, deep bass the Nationals produce being driven into by my CSP3. Awesome to Tube Roll!  Solid State sucks!

I am glad I have a Cryoset Quad of the 6N23P's in my On-deck Circle. Enjoy them enough to rotate in for sure.
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« Last Edit: 05/08/15 at 15:14:07 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #137 - 05/10/15 at 13:32:26
 
A pair of Ediswan CV2492 / 6922 from Upscale are coming in. I will put them in the A12 an B12/ZMA. I can't contain my lust for this Tube any longer. The textured midrange is supposed to be something. I will report back in a month or two on these babies.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #138 - 07/22/15 at 14:04:01
 
I finally put my Ediswan CV2492 / 6922 from Upscale in my A12 an B12 slots of my ZMA. I have 10 + hours on them from last night and today. No hype in my opinion from customer reviews for this tube!  I like! I will see what I think of them 100 hours from now.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #139 - 07/23/15 at 17:46:21
 
I don't mean to create confusion by using the Owner's manual number positions for the Input Tubes of the ZMA (A12 & B12). I do it, so others do not confuse them with the phase inverter tubes positions. I will just refer to them as the Input Tube positions going forward. We OWN the ZMA.  

I have enjoyed rolling 5 pair of tubes through the Inputs of the ZMA:
The shipped with 6N23P's
NOS Sovtek 6922's (True NOS)
NOS Platinum National 7DJ8's
http://www.upscaleaudio.com/matsushita-national-pcc88-7dj8/
NOS Platinum Telefunken 6922"s
http://www.upscaleaudio.com/telefunken-e88cc-6922/
NOS Platinum Ediswan 6922's
http://www.upscaleaudio.com/ediswan-cv2492-6922/

The Ediswan's are breathtaking in what they are providing to the Output!  
Stunning midrange texture while maintaining top and bottom end extension.....is NOT hyperbole!

Expensive, yeah~and worth it. Highly recommend the Ediswan's with the rest of Steve's Tube compliment shipped:
Tung-Sol KT66's (Bias at: 48 mA)
NOS 0A3 JAN Sylvania USA (or USA RCA NOS 0A3)
6N23P's as inverter's.

I use the NOS Platinum Telefunken 6922 as my Input Tube in my CSP3. Talk about the Master & Commander Tube for my 6N1P-EV's shipped from Steve with the CSP3......clarity/transparency...provided to ZMA.




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Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC

Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder (@ -20 Ref Level @ 16/176.4)

AURALiC Vega D/A processor.....coming!

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030
Decware CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps (NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC .....for Input Tube)
WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
***NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 in my A12 an B12 positions***

Kimber Select KS3033 Speaker Cable
Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)
M-CAP® Supreme Silver / Gold & Oil.....pending this Fall!

Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)

XLO Pro Power Cords to CSP3 an ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport, ZDSD an CSP3, Regenerated/120 ~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output)




Decware SE84CS (NOS Svetlana SV83's from 1980's-not the New Sensor knock-offs) ...when SE Pentodes run in Triode/Decware Style...needs to be in the System!
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« Last Edit: 07/23/15 at 18:36:13 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #140 - 07/31/15 at 19:10:31
 
Over 70 hours on the Ediswan's. Love um'.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #141 - 07/31/15 at 21:32:46
 

I've got some noise coming from my Nationals. I think I'm going back to the stock tubes.

Last I had my Amp at Decware, Steve said my tubes are looking tired...I probably should just go with a fresh set all around. I'm pretty sure I've got close to 1000 hours on the amp by now.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #142 - 08/01/15 at 17:45:09
 
Oh yeah, I have one KT66 wavering slightly. Nice, we can see that with a ZMA and its most bodacious meters! I bet I have 1500 hours plus on my ZMA.

I will replace the quad KT66's, put in my new matched cryoed/quad 6N23P's from Cryoset....get a feel for the original sound again before returning my Ediswan's back to the Input stage.

I think my 0A3's are still hardy?
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« Last Edit: 08/01/15 at 17:45:43 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #143 - 08/02/15 at 00:58:56
 
I was under the impression that the tubes generally lasted more into the 5 digit range.  What can we expect to get out of our ZMA tubes?  What's a "tired" tube look like anyway?  I know we can see the health of the power tubes from the meters so I'm refering to the others.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #144 - 08/02/15 at 17:25:22
 
I just replaced a quad of Gold Lion KT66 from Cryoset in my ZMA with the exact same tubes. This new quad of Gold Lions don't seem to bias like the last pair. Can't get them below 62ma. This will be a problem I think. I see you guys talking about the Tung Sols, maybe I go back and try them again.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #145 - 08/02/15 at 19:55:07
 
lLance, you wore out a quad of the GLs already?  Mine bias to about 56.  Steve told me that he goes into the 80s but that he runs the system hard at that point.  You can ask him but I doubt there's and issue at 62.  The transformers might run hotter but I think I read that they are good for around 145 degrees.  When I was biasing at 60 with the stock Tuns Sols my trans were under 125 degrees.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #146 - 12/16/15 at 15:18:51
 
Added a pair of Upscale Audio NOS Platinum Cryogenic Ediswan's for CSP3 Outputs (see tube sig's below). With them running into my ZMA Ediswan Inputs........no looking back!

Highly recommended. If you get them and don't like them....I will most likely buy them from you..... . PM me, I'll check back in a month or two. I would not mind having an Insurance pair (or two), 4 to 5000 hours down the road to replace one or both of the pair's I'm running.  







Listening Room:



Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew

Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)/Sandwich weighted for Isolation

Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC

****Shunyata Research ZiTron Alpha Digital Power Cord****
{you need to experience the next level it can take your DAC}

Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder
***************************************************************
W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the curb quite a few superb DAC'S!
***************************************************************
(@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192)
{also @ kept/-20 Ref Level & -.5db or -1.0 Input volume Level}


WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps
(NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Input Tube~NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 for Output Tubes & 5U4G-C Rectifier)
****************************************************
10 of 10 for Input tube & 9 of 10 voltage for Output tubes
Volume adjustment usage at 25% to 35% of usable volume
****************************************************

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
(NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 in my A12 an B12 positions~6N23P-EV's for Inverter Tubes~JAN Sylvania 0A3's & Tung-Sol KT66's)
ZMA adjusted at 25% to 30% of usable volume

***************************************************
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades
***************************************************

Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)




Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)

XLO Pro Power Cords to CSP3 an ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport, ZDSD an CSP3, Regenerated/120 ~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output)

PS=the: NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 /Inputs = ZMA are breathtaking.............. .

NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Input Tube/CSP3 ~ not taken for granted neither......... .
NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 for CSP3 Outputs = Stellar!
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« Last Edit: 12/16/15 at 15:22:54 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #147 - 12/22/15 at 15:42:21
 
I went back to my 6N1P-EV's as Output pre tubes for my CSP3. Double Ediswan's was to much of a good thing (Edi's out to Edi's in of ZMA).

But, an absolute must for my System is the NOS Platinum Telefunken I'm running for Input of my CSP3 and THE NOS Platinum Ediswan's for Input's of my Zen Mystery Amp.

I have NOS Cryogenic 6N23P-EV's (the good ones), from Cryoset....before they went extinct....and love them...and will switch them in ZMA Input's now and then going forward. .....but, the Ediswan's are my FAV's for Input's for my ZMA!!!!

....and of course now, I have a tucked away pair of NOS plat/Edi's....for 5000 hours from now.
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« Last Edit: 12/22/15 at 15:44:13 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #148 - 12/28/15 at 19:46:00
 

Stone, my power tubes are really tired - what are you using for power tubes on the ZMA?

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #149 - 12/28/15 at 20:20:28
 
LR, if I can make a suggestion I'd recommend considering the TAD KT-66 from cryoset.com I've had these for more than 2,000 hours of really great playback. Very balanced tube frequency wise, dynamic. I've had the Tung-Sol and Gold Lion KT-66 but the TAD are better in my amps.

http://www.cryoset.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=394&osCsid=96kba50l4...
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« Last Edit: 12/28/15 at 20:25:27 by Lon »  

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #150 - 12/29/15 at 15:21:05
 
Hey LR, I recently replaced mine after 22 months. I put the new matched quad in on 11/23, last month. I stuck with the Tung-Sol reissue KT66's. ......Two year anniversary for my ZMA, coming Jan/22nd.

I considered getting them from Cryoset, but decided to go un-cryo from TubeDepot.com, out of Memphis.

Nice, to put in a nice fresh quad, and because we have them, see the meters go to full bias pretty damn quick....mine were so tired too. We get to bias and balance perfectly!

I noticed something too? This new fresh quad is DEAD quiet. The quad Steve sent...they were a little noisey and one tube dragged to warm up pretty soon in on..... . It can happen. However, Tube Depot, I have loved for years and this quad is rock solid stellar!

I might someday, try the TADS Lon is suggesting. But, all research indicates INPUT Tubes make the most difference. As I stated in my post just above, loving those tubes.
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« Last Edit: 12/29/15 at 15:32:35 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #151 - 12/29/15 at 16:06:58
 
In my experience all tubes make a difference in every Deware amp or preamp I've owned. I can distinctly hear the differences in power tubes. Just saying. I liked the Tung-Sol the least of the three I've tried in my Torii Mk IIIs and Mk II. Different amps, yes. But my mileage. Others vary.
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« Last Edit: 12/29/15 at 16:07:20 by Lon »  

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #152 - 12/30/15 at 00:21:32
 
I agree with Lon. It may be true that inputs do the most...may be...but I hear notable differences with changes in any of the eight tube positions I use. Even VRs to me are pretty powerful. OA3 to OB3 is a real signature change, and even between vintages of OB3 by the same maker, one is a bit warmer and more textural, and the other more bold, articulate and dynamic, again a very good tuning tool. The ZMA OA3 sounds like you can't change to a different voltage tube, but at least in the MKIII and MKIV, different OA3 makes and shapes sound different enough to definitely prefer one over another in a given tube set.

And power tubes have more effect than VRs. To work around a given power tube, tuning to preferences with the others is no doubt a valid choice.

But that leaves out an important set of possibilities if you want to go deep. Similar in over-all sound influence to inputs (but with a different vibe since they are POWER tubes), their sound qualities not only change the amp, but effect the subtle qualities of the other tubes. I am glad to have several favorite power tubes to change things up. For example, the Ediswans in the CSP3 and Mystery being too much of a good thing could possibly be just right with a power tube that has a lot of spaciousness and inner detail. Possibly.

Right now I have winnowed down to the Valve Art KT66 (looks just like TAD, but I guess without the TAD selection system) Genalex KT66, and Tungsol 6L6G. For my preferences, to really tune the sound, I use them all at different times. Can't say now how the Tungsol KT66 would fit in there, but I preferred these tubes over it early on and the Tungsol KT66 have been in my Blue Torii since where some very open Telsa PCC88s bring them out nicely.

Long story short Stone...the way you are having fun with tuning to taste with tubes, you may enjoy a little variety of power tubes to work with. And the ZMA, with its bias tuning would make it a more powerful tuning tool I guess.
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« Last Edit: 12/30/15 at 00:51:37 by will »  

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #153 - 12/30/15 at 01:13:32
 
In my post from yesterday I said Gold Lion but meant to say Genalex.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #154 - 12/31/15 at 16:08:28
 
Neither of you own ZMA's. Input tubes matter the most as stated. So, no need to pee on the tree here, to mark your territory you don't have (read ZMA).
Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

Happy New Year, you two blowhards!  Have some fun tonight. Don't spend it on the Forum here!  

Who loves ya baby!
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #155 - 12/31/15 at 16:15:09
 
Nobody is "peeing on the tree," just offering advice on a great power tube imo, one I've preferred after using two other brands, both of whom had one fail on me early as well. I'd have a ZMA if I wanted one, I don't want one. But my guess is the TAD tubes would shine in the ZMA. I was offering that advice to Eric, not you.

Happy new year. We're going out to dinner and then staying in and have some sober fun.
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« Last Edit: 12/31/15 at 16:23:51 by Lon »  

HR-1,ZP3,ZTPRE,Torii MkIII,ZBIT,ZROCK2,Taboo MkIV;PS Audio:Soloist SE,DMP+DSD,P10,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs,Mapleshade:Dbl Helix+,SamsonV2+V3;CambrAudi CXU;Rega RP3,TTPSU,Groovetracer upgrades,Exact2;VooDoo Cremona +Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner,Oppo PM-1,Audeze LCD-2
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #156 - 12/31/15 at 17:34:31
 
You don't own a ZMA ~ so don't comment on the ZMA. It is pretty simple...... .






Listening Room:



Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew

Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)/Sandwich weighted for Isolation

Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC


Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder
***************************************************************
W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the curb quite a few superb DAC'S!
***************************************************************
(@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192)
{also @ kept/-20 Ref Level & -.5db Input volume Level}


WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps
(NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Input Tube~6N1P-EV's for Output Tubes & 5U4G-C Rectifier)
****************************************************
10 of 10 for Input tube & 8 of 10 voltage for Output tubes
Volume adjustment usage at 25% to 45% of usable volume
****************************************************

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
(NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 in my A12 an B12 positions~6N23P-EV's for Inverter Tubes~JAN Sylvania 0A3's & Tung-Sol KT66's)
ZMA adjusted at 25% to 35% of usable volume

***************************************************
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades
***************************************************

Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)




Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)

XLO Pro Power Cords to CSP3 an ZMA
All four pieces of Gear running from an: ADCOM ACE - 515 AC enhancer

PS=the: NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 /Inputs = ZMA are breathtaking.............. .
Also: Cryoset 6N23N-EB's, rotated in and out of Inputs/ZMA

NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Input Tube/CSP3 ~ not taken for granted neither......... .
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« Last Edit: 12/31/15 at 17:59:29 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #157 - 12/31/15 at 18:26:16
 
What's simple is that you have no authority over what I post, this year or next.
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« Last Edit: 12/31/15 at 18:27:44 by Lon »  

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #158 - 12/31/15 at 22:26:09
 
Stone,

Sorry you find our attempts to help people based on our rather serious experimentation as "blowing hard." Personally, I really appreciate others giving useful information based on their experience. It helps me understand better what is going on in general, and can help me get the sound I love....To me this is what this forum is about.

What we were talking about was the nature of tube sound.... and the interaction between tubes in Decware amps. As Lon said, with all Decware amps he has used, and the same for me, all tubes notably effect the sound if a system is revealing at all. In this room I have used an SE34, Rachael, Blue Torii, Torii MKIII and MKIV, Zstage, Taboo, and CSP3 and every tube makes a difference in all of those. Though I have not heard a Mystery amp, to me it defies logic that any of Steve's amps would not clearly reflect the various characters of different power tubes.

And though not necessarily my experience, even if it were true that inputs across the board brought about the most powerful sound shifts, this does not mean power tubes do not bring about powerful sound shifts also. I would be dumbfounded if Steve did not agree! Now which is the best in a given setting, who knows.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #159 - 01/03/16 at 18:18:45
 
~Bloviating~ Roll Eyes Grin







Listening Room:



Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew

Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)/Sandwich weighted for Isolation

Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC


Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder
***************************************************************
W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the curb quite a few superb DAC'S!
***************************************************************
(@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192)
{also @ kept/-20 Ref Level & -.5db Input volume Level}


WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps
(NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Input Tube~6N1P-EV's for Output Tubes & 5U4G-C Rectifier)
****************************************************
10 of 10 for Input tube & 8 of 10 voltage for Output tubes
Volume adjustment usage at 25% to 45% of usable volume
****************************************************

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
(NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 in my A12 an B12 positions~6N23P-EV's for Inverter Tubes~JAN Sylvania 0A3's & Tung-Sol KT66's)
ZMA adjusted at 25% to 35% of usable volume

***************************************************
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades
***************************************************

Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)




Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)

***************************************************************************
XLO Pro Power Cords to CSP3 an ZMA
All four pieces of Gear running from an: ADCOM ACE - 515 AC enhancer

~OR~

PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport, ZDSD an CSP3, Regenerated/120 ~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output)
***************************************************************************

PS=the: NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 /Inputs = ZMA are breathtaking.............. .
Also: Cryoset 6N23N-EB's, rotated in and out of Inputs/ZMA

NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Input Tube/CSP3 ~ not taken for granted neither......... .
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« Last Edit: 01/03/16 at 18:23:18 by stone_of_tone »  

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Posts: 300
Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #160 - 01/05/16 at 17:15:41
 
I agree with both Will and Lon.

I own the CSP3, CSP2+ and Torii Mk4.
Steve's amps are built based on the concept of a straight wire with gain.
So every tube from the input to the output will make a difference to your sound.

For those with a limited budget, your amp will still sound good with the stock tubes. But as a tube roller, I'm very certain that the sound in your Decware amp can still be improved with better NOS tubes in place.

Now, back to the concept of a straight wire with gain design.
This is the reason why Joe's tube lore has stood the test of time.
The pinched waist really does sound the best of all the 6DJ8s, except  for maybe the Stuttgart Lorenz PCC88 which I was fortunate enough to acquire.
Regardless of your particular amp, Decware or otherwise and even ZMA or otherwise, joe's tube lore is highly reliable.

As for power tubes , as someone who has tube rolled with NOS EL34s MULLARDS, Phillips BROWNbases and Philips Metalbase tubes, the metal base tubes are really worth the extra , if you can find them. I'm really fortunate to have gotten a few quads of them for my Torii Mk4, which is why I'm certain that my Decware amp is running at peak performance.
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stone_of_tone
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #161 - 01/07/16 at 16:18:18
 
Once again, IF you don't own it ~ don't comment on its Tube Fidelity.
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« Last Edit: 01/07/16 at 16:18:38 by stone_of_tone »  

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Posts: 688
Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #162 - 01/10/16 at 19:09:06
 
LR -- I've been running a quad of the Gold Lion KT66s from Cryoset and I've liked them better than the Tungsol but I also just put back in a quad of 6P3S-E - 6L6 - 6L6GT that I bought on ebay some time ago.  They are excellent and a real bargain compared to other options.  Plus they have a strong blue glow!   Wink

Let us know what you think if you decide to try some.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/171702074721?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STR...
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Posts: 13031
Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #163 - 01/10/16 at 19:30:59
 
Interesting. I ordered a quad. They're matched I assume? I hope.
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Posts: 688
Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #164 - 01/10/16 at 19:48:49
 
Mine are and the add says they are too.  I'm thinking of getting a second quad before he runs out.  If you search 6P3S-E there is a lot of chit chat on these tubes on the Forum.  I would not call them bass shy anymore as I did when I first got them.
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Posts: 688
Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #165 - 01/10/16 at 20:09:55
 
Just ordered another quad of the 6P3S-E.  I also considered the TAD KT66 but these are about a third the price and are good for me now.
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Posts: 13031
Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #166 - 01/10/16 at 20:28:51
 
Cool. I remember you and Mark and a few others talking about these. I love the TAD KT-66 and have gotten more hours out of them than any other output tubes I've had in the Torii in years. I'll be ordering another quad this year. But I'll try these too. . . . I have three Toriis so there are always a place for another quad.
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« Last Edit: 01/10/16 at 21:46:42 by Lon »  

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stone_of_tone
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #167 - 01/11/16 at 18:07:45
 
LR, did you get a new Quad? What are you biasing at (these days)?

I was using 52 mA for the longest time. I just went back to 60 mA! So much better for my Ediswan Input tubes. Better for the 0A3's and the Inverter tubes too with these Edi's. Transients are total killer now!

Torii III weenies don't get to customize their Input Tubes!

That was fun to say!   Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
Especially when Torii weenies insist on commenting about tube rolling in an Amp (ZMA).....they don't have/own.....ANY EXPERIENCE WITH. But, some people are Legends in there own minds!


INSIGHT - The two small 9 pin tubes (6N23P) that make up the input stage and
phase inverter are used to drive the output stage. These tubes have an effect on
the overall matching of a given pair of output tubes. That means you can have a
perfectly matched pair and an odd or misbehaving 6N23P could cause the tubes to
be off sightly. Of course with the Mystery Amp you can simply compensate with the
ingenious balance control.

....and since I tube roll:

NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 /Inputs = ZMA

Also: Cryoset 6N23N-EB's, rotated in and out of Inputs/ZMA

....so critical to balance.....and have the option to bias at: 50, 52, 54, 56, 58 or 60 mA.
(working "the" between the hashes, from 48 on up with subtlety).



Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 01/11/16 at 20:13:01 by stone_of_tone »  

Sony as Transport
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stone_of_tone
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Posts: 2634
Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #168 - 01/13/16 at 19:52:18
 
Try Cable Rolling!

Kimber Kable KS6063
Broad-shouldered, muscular, and hugely dynamic, KS6063 is simultaneously capable of brutal transients and the most intimate delicacy. This reference cable delivers unforgettable experiences, with effortless extensions into both extremes.

Not bull-malarkey!  .....so damn glad to have um'!!!!!!!!!

DECWARE UL RULES.......and the rest of the Market can just drool!






Listening Room:



Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew

Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)/Sandwich weighted for Isolation

Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC

Shunyata Research Zitron Alpha Digital Power Cord to ZDSD!

Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder
***************************************************************
W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the curb quite a few superb DAC'S!
***************************************************************
(@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192)

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps
(NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Input Tube~6N1P-EV's for Output Tubes & 5U4G-C Rectifier)
****************************************************
10 of 10 for Input tube & *9* of 10 voltage for Output tubes
Volume adjustment usage at 25% to 55% of usable volume
****************************************************

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
~BIASED at *60* mA~
(NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 in my A12 an B12 positions~6N23P-EV's for Inverter Tubes~JAN Sylvania 0A3's & Tung-Sol KT66's)
ZMA adjusted at 25% to 35% of usable volume

***************************************************
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades
***************************************************

Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)




Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)


XLO Pro Power Cords to CSP3 an ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport, ZDSD an CSP3, Regenerated/*122*~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output)
***************************************************************************

PS: NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 /Inputs = ZMA are breathtaking.............. .

*Also: Cryoset 6N23N-EB's, rotated in and out of Inputs/ZMA*

NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Input Tube/CSP3 ~ not taken for granted neither......... .

NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 /PRE Outputs of CSP3, running out into ZMA Inputs with Ediswan's = revelatory!
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 01/13/16 at 20:36:24 by stone_of_tone »  

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Posts: 13031
Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #169 - 01/19/16 at 00:25:05
 
Interestingly cryoset.com is now offering these Reflector 6P3S-E, and at about the same price as the foreign seller I bought a quad from. So I ordered some from cryoset as well. . . we'll see which comes first!
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 01/19/16 at 00:25:27 by Lon »  

HR-1,ZP3,ZTPRE,Torii MkIII,ZBIT,ZROCK2,Taboo MkIV;PS Audio:Soloist SE,DMP+DSD,P10,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs,Mapleshade:Dbl Helix+,SamsonV2+V3;CambrAudi CXU;Rega RP3,TTPSU,Groovetracer upgrades,Exact2;VooDoo Cremona +Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner,Oppo PM-1,Audeze LCD-2
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Lon
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Posts: 13031
Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #170 - 01/21/16 at 23:34:42
 
Well, I got these tubes in from Cryoset and tried them out. Back to the sound I had in the Torii before I moved to KT66--more upfront, more vibrant perhaps. . . but a bit light weight and missing the solidity and openness I find so appealing in the KT66, especially the TAD. A bit less "3D". . . .I had to put in some rock because jazz, especially piano, didn't sound quite right to me on these tubes (so far).

I'll keep them in and out a few days and see if the bass comes in soon. . . but I miss the TADs already!
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« Last Edit: 01/21/16 at 23:42:33 by Lon »  

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stone_of_tone
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Posts: 2634
Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #171 - 01/24/16 at 15:42:36
 
INSIGHT - The two small 9 pin tubes (6N23P) that make up the input stage and
phase inverter are used to drive the output stage. These tubes have an effect on
the overall matching of a given pair of output tubes. That means you can have a
perfectly matched pair and an odd or misbehaving 6N23P could cause the tubes to
be off sightly. Of course with the Mystery Amp you can simply compensate with the
ingenious balance control.

....and since I tube roll:

NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 /Inputs = ZMA

Also: Cryoset 6H23N-EB's, rotated in and out of Inputs/ZMA

....so critical to balance.....and have the option to bias at: 50, 52, 54, 56, 58 or 60 mA.
(working "the" between the hashes, from 48 on up with subtlety).

Back to top
 
 

Sony as Transport
Illuminati D-60
Audio Alchemy DTI-Pro
Audio Magic Mystic Reference I2S
Audio Alchemy DDE 3.0
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Posts: 13031
Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #172 - 01/26/16 at 14:31:43
 
mark58 wrote on 02/28/15 at 22:08:41:
OK, I did it!  I bought the 6P3S-E tubes...  two pair of 60's tubes from the Photon Plant and a Quad of those reflectors from the Saratov plant from the 70's....from the seller Will bought from.  I hope they're good because I could have had that RCA Black Plate Quad for what I paid. The search is over...for now. Mark.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/181300188954?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STR...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/171604076434?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STR...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/171604080168?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STR...


Seems about a year that people have been reporting on these. I have about 30 hours on my cryo'd quad (serving background and TV duty) and am listening critically now. Quite nice. In comparison to the TAD KT66 more forward and less bass impact and depth, at least so far. More detailed perhaps, but I don't feel I miss the details with the TADs. There is much less of an "open field of sound" than with the TADs and a much denser center fill, a very different soundscape.

Nice change of pace though. I know I'll miss the TADs and after about 15 months it's really time for a new quad of TADs. those 6P35s are sure cheaper though. . . by more than half. . .and I'm enjoying the change now that they've bloomed and de-sizzled a bit.
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Posts: 2634
Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #173 - 01/26/16 at 14:58:20
 
Torii III? We eat Torii III's for lunch on this Thread. You must be lost? Or, confused?!   Cheesy  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D


Further sonic pleasure improvements (Zen Mystery Amp & CSP3) have been Tube Rolling:

NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 /Inputs = ZMA are breathtaking.............. .

*Also: Cryoset 6H23N-EB's, rotated in and out of Inputs/ZMA*
(Way different internal guts/halo/getter...they are NOT 6N23P-EV's)

NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Input Tube/CSP3 ~ not taken for granted neither......... .

NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 /PRE Outputs of CSP3, running  into ZMA Inputs with Ediswan's = revelatory!  



Furthermore, customizing my Acoustic Zen Adagio's:

Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)
...........................Revelatory!

Especially when the Adagio Drivers are equipped with underhung voice coils and Neodymium magnets – a short voice coil in a long magnetic gap allows to eliminates most of the distortions and coloration.

......then with the Transmission Lines.....magnificent overacheivers!





PS: Goals in 2016/for my System:

1) Three more choice/select/NOS/Platinum pairs of 6922's from Upscale Audio.

2) I'm bringing in a PASS LABS XA 30.8 (used/demo/seasoned in), to challenge my Zen Mystery Amp. Yes, the XA 30.8.....not the XA 30.5.
(I'll probably end up keeping the 30.8 & the ZMA will be going nowhere~it stays/period).

3) Kimber Internal Silver wire or Duelund, inside Adagio's...and Upgrade Caps to Mundorf Silver Oils.








Listening Room:


Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew

Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)/Sandwich weighted for Isolation

Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC

Shunyata Research Ztron Alpha Digital Power Cord to ZDSD!

Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder
***************************************************************
W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the curb quite a few superb DAC'S!
***************************************************************
(@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192)

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps
(NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Input Tube~NOS Platinum Ediswan Cryogenic 6922's for Output Tubes & 5U4G-C Rectifier)
****************************************************
10 of 10 for Input tube & *9* of 10 voltage for Output tubes
Volume adjustment usage at 25% to 55% from 0
****************************************************

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
~BIASED at *60* mA~
(NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 in my A12 an B12 positions~6N23P-EV's for Inverter Tubes~JAN Sylvania 0A3's & Tung-Sol KT66's)
ZMA adjusted at 20% to 30% from 0

***************************************************
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades
***************************************************

Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)




Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)


XLO Pro Power Cords to CSP3 an ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport, ZDSD an CSP3, Regenerated/*122*~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output)
***************************************************************************

PS: NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 /Inputs = ZMA are breathtaking.............. .

*Also: Cryoset 6H23N-EB's, rotated in and out of Inputs/ZMA*
(Way different internal guts/halo/getter...they are NOT 6N23P-EV's)

NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Input Tube/CSP3 ~ not taken for granted neither......... .

NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 /PRE Outputs of CSP3, running  into ZMA Inputs with Ediswan's = revelatory!
Back to top
 
 

Sony as Transport
Illuminati D-60
Audio Alchemy DTI-Pro
Audio Magic Mystic Reference I2S
Audio Alchemy DDE 3.0
Kimber Select 1030
Zen Select #76
Kimber Select 3033
Polk Audio LS-90
Tri-config/TipToes & Vibropods underneath Speakers
360 degree Rm Treats
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Lon
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Posts: 13031
Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #174 - 01/26/16 at 15:03:34
 
UMMM. . . this thread does not belong to you, and that's where these tubes are discussed. See ya.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #175 - 01/26/16 at 15:06:13
 
Ummm....lost & confused.....as I suspected.   Tongue
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Illuminati D-60
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Posts: 13031
Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #176 - 01/26/16 at 15:12:05
 
Yes, apparently you are. Wink
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #177 - 01/26/16 at 15:17:07
 
Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin
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Posts: 17
Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #178 - 02/15/16 at 18:10:54
 
One of the issues I've had right from the start with my ZMA is the difficulty in achieving the recommended 50mA bias current. The Tung-Sol KT66 that came with amp couldn't quiet get there. The Harma KT66-Retro's I replaced the Tung-Sols with were better but not much better. I discovered that mains voltage has an affect on this by powering the ZMA with main re-generator with a fixed output voltage of 230v instead of the 251v I typically get at the mains socket and decided that this was the reason. I live across the road from the local substation. Subsequent research indicated that the Tung-Sol KT66 was atypical of most KT66s in that its bias current requirement was lower. Something was very wrong with my original KT66s.
My system has been out of use the last few months whilst I renovated my main listening room. Last weekend thing had reached the point where I could setup a basic system and start to have a listen and so took the opportunity to purchase a new matched quad of Tung-Sol KT66s. Ill admit that, with hind-sight, it's something I should have done from the start. The new Tung-Sol KT66s have sorted the bias adjustment issue and are sounding amazing. The subsequent listening session lead to an interesting discovery but that will the subject of another post.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #179 - 02/15/16 at 19:16:49
 
I treat the 50 mA bias as more of a target and set bias more to the tube.  The original recommendation was 60 mA.  I bias my Gold Lion KT66s at 56 mA which is a bit higher than their minimum.  I think higher bias may cause the output transformers to run hotter but mine are still way below the 140 degrees Steve said was the design run point.

One of my original Tung-Sols is funky and takes a long time to settle so I don't use them.  I don't feel like I got near the life from that Tung-Sol tube that I should have.  I really like the 6P3S-Es from Russia but I had a problem with one or two from the last quad I bought.  After running fine for weeks, I left my house for an hour and when I came back there was a very loud and awful sound coming form my speakers and the left channel meters were pegged at the top.  After powering down and back up everything seemed fine but the left tubes started acting up several days later with the meters jumping and bad sounds coming from the left speaker.  Steve told me that they would be bad when I conferred with him over the original incident.

When cash flow improves I think I'll try the TAD KT66s from Cryoset.
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Charnwood
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #180 - 02/15/16 at 22:30:03
 
It seems I'm not the only to choose a different make of KT66 when the original Tung-Sols gave problems. The new quad of Tung-Sol KT66s are in a different class when compared to the originals.

The object of my initial listening session last Saturday was to get reacquainted with the system. The input tubes were Telefunken E88CCs, the phase splitters were Telefunken PCC88s and the output tubes were the new Tung-Sol KT66s. In general I was very impressed with the system, and as far as I could recall possibly the best I'd ever heard it. However, on about a third of the tracks it seemed as if the bass was leaking into the mid-range. At the time I put this down to a need for better equipment supports and acoustic treatments.

On Sunday I decided to swap the original 6N23Ps back in to remind me what the standard configuration sounded like. After about an hour I decided I preferred what I was hearing on Saturday and so swap the input tube for not for the Telefunken E88CC but the Siemans E88CC.
The result was much more like that which I was getting the previous day but not quite and the dark mid-range was still there on some tracks. I decided to swap the phase splitter to see what difference that might make. By chance I put the Telefunken E88CC instead of the PCC88s.
So did it make a difference? Yes!, one hell of a difference. For a start, gone was the darkening of the mid-range not mention all other benefits this brought with it. It was allowing the Siemans E88CC to perform as it should. It seems the choice of phase splitter tube can be critical.  
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Marantz sa-7s1 -> Audio-GD Master 8 -> Decware ZMA -> Decware ERR.

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stone_of_tone
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #181 - 02/16/16 at 14:30:54
 
Oh yeah, getting the original quad/sent with my ZMA out after 22 months this past November....they were noisey from the start.
My new quad of KT66 Tung-Sol are quiet and awesome.

Yes, I just made the Inverter Tubes a priority. I have a pair of Cryoset Cry'ode 6H23N-EB's in. ....see my complete tubes below.

After 25 months and 2500 hours on the originals from Steve....they were slow!  Anyone out there thinking it's your Input tubes being slow on your ZMA...it might be and probably is your Phase Inverter tubes. ....and yes, with only 2500 hours on them. Being a UL Amp...I drive it hard and Listen to it at 86 to 94db SPL's....you won't get 4500 hours out of the Inverters....only about 2500.  

Chranwood, I have some Mullards, Bels coming for Input and Output.....LOVING MY EDISWANS!!!!

I should get the Telefunken E88CC .....for Inverters too!





Listening Room:


Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew

Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)/Sandwich weighted for Isolation

Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC

Shunyata Research Ztron Alpha Digital Power Cord to ZDSD!

Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder
***************************************************************
W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the curb quite a few superb DAC'S!
***************************************************************
(@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192)

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps
(NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Input Tube~NOS Platinum Ediswan Cryogenic 6922's for Output Tubes & 5U4G-C Rectifier)
****************************************************
10 of 10 for Input tube & *9* of 10 voltage for Output tubes
Volume adjustment usage at 25% to 55% from 0
****************************************************

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
~BIASED at *60* mA~
(NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 in my A12 an B12 positions~Cryoset 6H23N-EB's for Inverter Tubes~JAN Sylvania 0A3's & New Quad of Tube Depot Stealth/Tung-Sol KT66's)
ZMA adjusted at 10%, 15% to 25% max, from 0

***************************************************
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades
***************************************************

Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)
.....from 8ohm Taps




Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)


XLO Pro Power Cords to CSP3 an ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport, ZDSD an CSP3, Regenerated/*122*~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output)
***************************************************************************

PS: NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 /Inputs = ZMA are breathtaking.............. .

*Also: Cryoset 6H23N-EB's, rotated in and out of Inputs/ZMA*
(Way different internal guts/halo/getter...they are NOT 6N23P-EV's)

NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Input Tube/CSP3 ~ not taken for granted neither......... .

NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 /PRE Outputs of CSP3, running  into ZMA Inputs with Ediswan's = revelatory!
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« Last Edit: 02/16/16 at 15:50:42 by stone_of_tone »  

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Posts: 17
Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #182 - 02/16/16 at 18:19:02
 
I've decided I don't really care for the Siemans E88CC as an input tube, much preferring the Telefunken E88CC in that position, but the Siemans does make a fine phase-splitter tube along with the Telefunken E88CC.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #183 - 02/16/16 at 20:54:39
 
I'm going to have to temper my last post in regards to the Siemans E88CC as phase-splitter, simply put it's not in the Telefunken E88CC's league. I'm now running with Telefunken E88CC's for both input and phase-splitter and it's a case of "You don't know what you've got until it's gone". In this instance, a bit of looseness in the bass and a little clouding in the mid-range.
I'm not sure how much is due to running matched tubes in both positions, and how much is due to the Telefunken E88CC's abilities as a phase-splitter. It should be noted that the Telefunken also worked very well with the Siemans as the input tube. The issue I had with the Siemans was that I found it emphasised the treble a little too much. But that view may change once I install some acoustic panesl in my listening room. The room is pretty bare at the moment. It's a testament to the ERRx that the system sounds as good as it does.
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« Last Edit: 02/16/16 at 20:57:01 by Charnwood »  

Marantz sa-7s1 -> Audio-GD Master 8 -> Decware ZMA -> Decware ERR.

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Posts: 688
Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #184 - 02/28/16 at 21:07:29
 
I've been running the stock ZMA input tubes but since one or more are going bad and may need changing, I was wondering if any ZMA owners who have changed their input tubes could tell me what specific changes they heard from their specific tube?  I'm not unhappy with the stock tubes but opportunity is knocking.  I might just change a pair so if you can say if you use them in the "11" or "12" spot it would be great.

I'm hoping for fairly specific descriptions, if possible.  Much thanks!  Smiley
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« Last Edit: 02/28/16 at 21:08:05 by Archie »  
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stone_of_tone
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #185 - 03/05/16 at 18:49:17
 
Charn', I believe you. I am going to go for another pair (ouch), of the Telefunken E88CC/6922's......for my phase splitter's.





Listening Room:


Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew

Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)/Sandwich weighted for Isolation

Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC

Shunyata Research Ztron Alpha Digital Power Cord to ZDSD!

Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder
***************************************************************
W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the curb quite a few superb DAC'S!
***************************************************************
(@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192)


WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030


Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
~BIASED at *60* mA~
(NOS/Platinum/Telefunken E88CC/6922 in my A12 an B12 positions~Cryoset 6H23N-EB's for Inverter Tubes~JAN Sylvania 0A3's & New Quad of Tube Depot Stealth/Tung-Sol KT66's)


***************************************************
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades
***************************************************

Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)


Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)


XLO Pro Power Cord to ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport, ZDSD are Regenerated/*122*~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output)
***************************************************************************
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« Last Edit: 03/05/16 at 18:52:39 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #186 - 03/06/16 at 11:32:09
 
Stone, I take it that you've tried the Telefunfen E88CC's as phase-splitters and found them to be beneficial before deciding to cause your wallet more grief.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #187 - 03/06/16 at 15:30:04
 
Yes, the Telefunken E88CC's as phase-splitters with my Ediswan's for Inputs. Kevin is going to continue to raise the price on the Tele's....so I'm biting the bullet now.

E88CC phase-splitters with my other/current pair of E88CC's and Ediswan rotation for Inputs = MAGIC. I have two pair of the Edi's.
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« Last Edit: 03/06/16 at 15:33:37 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #188 - 03/06/16 at 15:43:51
 
I am so impressed by what the best 6922's can do....I can't go back.

Plus, for those that are reading and have never heard what a pair of NOS Platinum Telefunken E88CC's from 1968, as phase-splitters with Ediswan NOS Platinum CV2492/6922's for Inputs of my ZMA can do, .....I guess you will never know?!!

Plus consider the amortization.....they last 5000 to 7500 hours. ..... quite a few years.   Worth it.

....also, bringing my Platinum Tubes and some Tubes I'm selling...to a Hickok Tester in Stillwater soon.
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« Last Edit: 03/06/16 at 16:02:56 by stone_of_tone »  

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NormD
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Posts: 37
Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #189 - 11/25/17 at 02:45:17
 
It seems to be a while since this topic has been active, so I thought I'd ask for some current opinions. I'm running my year-old ZMA with a ZTPre and I love the sound. But we are always looking for a little more, no?

So I swapped out the stock 6N1P's with the National 7DJ8's in A12 and B12 and the sound stage and midrange have opened up considerably. I'm very happy.  Reading through this thread, there are favorable reviews about the Ediswans CV2492's and the Telefunken E88CC. The Ediswans are no longer on the Upscale site and we all know the Telefunken's are pricy.

Are folks still happy with the Telefunkens over the Nationals?  Other recommendations?
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Lon
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #190 - 11/25/17 at 08:03:14
 
I don't have a ZMA but I am rocking a ZTPRE in my system. One complement of tubes I run in the ZTPRE is a sextet of ECC189 that though labeled Mullard and Lorenz I believe are Philips made tubes. Very clear and focused and dynamic tubes.
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stone_of_tone
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #191 - 11/25/17 at 14:38:32
 
Hi Norm....here is my gig....the last couple years now. I go without other things, so I can afford my NOS Plat' tubes.  :D  I can't go back to low power from my ZMA and I can't go back to less than these tubes I'm running below..... . I put the Russian tubes in to remind me of the original signature and will probably sell the Tung' 6922's ~ NOT the Tung' 7DJ8's....they are the perfect yang to my ying Mullard in my Audio Research LS-2B MkII.


Probably, trying these Siemens next. Easy resale on Audiogon...if they don't work out for me....... .
https://www.upscaleaudio.com/collections/preamp-tubes/products/siemens-a-frame-e...
.....might be an even better yang, in my ZMA as inputs.....with my Mullard in my ARC Line Stage.

NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Inverter Tubes~NOS RCA 0A3's & matched new production Quad/Tung-Sol KT66's

I don't like the Tele's as inputs....but live by them for inverter's.

https://www.upscaleaudio.com/collections/preamp-tubes/products/telefunken-e88cc-...


.......here is my order of Listening (keeping each scenario in one to two weeks at a time):

ZMA direct from ZDSD with Ediswan pair (Cryo'd) CV2492/6922 ....as inputs/ZMA

ZMA direct from ZDSD with Mullard pair (Cryo'd) 7308/E188CC ....as inputs/ZMA

ARC LS-2B/single Mullard 7308/E188CC (Cryo'd) to Tungsram pair PCC88/7DJ8 ...inputs/ZMA

.....I have my best pair of Cryogenic Ediswans in right now/direct as above mentioned....Heaven.


~NOS Platinum Tubes from Upscale Audio/Kevin:

(Great Britain) Mullard 7308/E188CC ~  2 pair (both pair Cryogenic)
(Germany) Telefunken E88CC ~ 1 pair (painfully expensive/worth it)
(US/Great Britain) Ediswan CV2492/6922 ~ 2 pair (one pair Cryogenic)
(Hungary) Tungsram 6922/E88CC ~ 1 pair
(Hungary) Tungsram PCC88/7DJ8 ~ 1 pair.

From Cryoset:
(Russia) 6N23N/P-EB ~ 2 pair

(Russia) 6N23P's ~ 2 pair/came with ZMA.    
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« Last Edit: 11/25/17 at 14:42:16 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #192 - 11/26/17 at 04:01:00
 
Watching the video for the Siemens, scares me.  However, I appreciate Kevin's honesty about them. I will pass on those. I like what he has to say in the video about the Philips PCC88/7Dj8+the reviews. Probably, my next pair for solo input for ZMA and running my Line Stage in to them.

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« Last Edit: 11/26/17 at 04:03:11 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #193 - 11/26/17 at 18:01:54
 
Norm, I am not a big fan of the Matsu Nationals. I would try the Tungsram PCC88's ....I love. However, .....all subjective...maybe I have a shitty pair of the Matsu's?

For me, other than receiving my ZROCK2 and hearing if it works (for me/certain genre's/recordings).....? I have tricked out my Listening Room System to the point...tube rolling is now my option and I enjoy it/but, not much more out there for me to roll/no complaints. Done rolling Speaker's now....nothing has beat my modified Adagio's with their underhung gig/German made (to Mr. Lee's spec's) with Mundorf MCap Supremes/gutted original x-over's.....and the Adagio Tweeter's.......the Swan's Tweeter's can't compete.....end of story.

Far as Ediswans go....they pop up on the Agon' tube section. Just Vet them well. The killer expensive Telefunken's are worth it for Inverter's and the next 10,000 hours (yes think about it.....pennies per use).

Unfortunately, Kevin's Tubes are supply and demand...but worth it to me.....to get the most out of my ZMA. Some people can't hear the difference I suppose....but in my Rig and Cabling.....I sure hear the difference.







.......here is my order of Listening (keeping each scenario in one to two weeks at a time):

ZMA direct from ZDSD with Ediswan pair (Cryo'd) CV2492/6922 ....as inputs/ZMA

ZMA direct from ZDSD with Mullard pair (Cryo'd) 7308/E188CC ....as inputs/ZMA

ARC LS-2B/single Mullard 7308/E188CC (Cryo'd) to Tungsram pair PCC88/7DJ8 ...inputs/ZMA.


.....currently running with ZDSD direct to ZMA (no Line Stage)....with Cryogenic Ediswan pair for inputs in my ZMA. All else (below) equal/in System.


Previous Decware Amplifier's/I have owned/Purchased new: SE84CS (#76 Zen Select/you see in my original Signature below/I used for 13 years/2001 till 2014), Torii MkIII & SuperZen CKC.





Listening Room:



Room Treatments from Michael Green & my Home Brew


Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)
Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC ~.5 meter


Shunyata Research Zitron Alpha Digital Power Cord to ZDSD {Significant}


Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder
***************************************************************
W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the Curb quite a few superb DAC'S
***************************************************************
(@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192)


WBT RCA Kimber Select KS1030 ~.5 meter


Audio Research Stereo Line Stage Amplifier w/remote volume & mute LS-2B MkII
NOS Platinum/Mullard 7308/E188CC / Cryogenic


WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030 ~.75 meter


currently.....NOS Platinum Tungsram PCC88/7DJ8 ~ 1 pair....in for Inputs/ZMA

Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
~BIASED at *56* mA~
NOS/Platinum/Mullard E188CC/7308's in my A12 an B12 Input positions Cryogenic~NOS/Platinum/Telefunken E88CC for Inverter Tubes~NOS RCA 0A3's & matched Quad/Tung-Sol KT66's

ZMA adjusted at  60-90% Gain ~ w/ARC Line Stage, running via Remote Control



***************************************************
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades
***************************************************
Kimber 8TC new/white & clear jacket/to remind me of how fluid/timbre correct and good the KS6063 are
Also Read.....the lowest noise floor you will ever witness....that a $5180 pair of speaker cables should have....and they do.....(I was fortunate to get them for $2680/Demo pair/mint, from the CableCo....worth every penny/extraordinary realism.....)



Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)
.....enjoying from 8 ohm ZMA Taps


Caintuck Audio Eminence Alpha 15" OB BASS Unit
at 53Hz, with my Velodyne CHT 130 watt plate amp and 0 degree phase.....at 1/6 volume on plate
Plate Amp....regen'd clean ~ plugged into P3
Auralex Subdude (a must)
(NOTE: Only needed when the recording calls for...Open Baffle Bass has been the best integration I have witnessed when needed and called on)







Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)


XLO Pro Power Cord to ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport, ARC Pre, and ZDSD, Regenerated/*120*~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output).


~NOS Platinum Tubes from Upscale Audio/Kevin:

(Great Britain) Mullard 7308/E188CC ~  2 pair (both pair Cryogenic)
(Germany) Telefunken 6922/E88CC ~ 1 pair (painfully expensive/worth it)
(US/Great Britain) Ediswan CV2492/6922 ~ 2 pair (one pair Cryogenic)
(Hungary) Tungsram 6922/E88CC ~ 1 pair
(Hungary) Tungsram PCC88/7DJ8 ~ 1 pair.

From Cryoset:
(Russia) 6N23N/P-EB ~ 2 pair

(Russia) 6N23P's ~ 2 pair/came with ZMA.    

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« Last Edit: 11/26/17 at 21:58:44 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #194 - 11/26/17 at 19:36:41
 
PS-Brent Jessee, does have some tubes....I might go after....and next fall, I might put Mundorf Silver Oil's in my Adagio's. .....this will be a super painful burn in process......could be worth it.

Other than (possibly these above mentioned).....enjoy it all....and keep the wallet closed!
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #195 - 12/02/17 at 20:34:45
 
Matched/NOS/Platinum/Mullard E188CC/7308's/Cryogenic in my A12 an B12 Input positions/ZMA

.........have taken over the lead!

.....these are breath taking tubes in the ZMA..... .


Matched/NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Inverter Tubes~NOS RCA 0A3's & matched Quad/Tung-Sol KT66's.
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Posts: 37
Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #196 - 12/05/17 at 01:39:31
 
stone:

You are hard to keep up with. I had just put my Nationals in my ZMA and really liked them but now you go ahead and put Telefunkens and Mullards in your ZMA and raise the bar?  Really?  How are we supposed to keep up and not go broke? I just received my Ediswans and Telefunkens and now you change to Mullards.  Jeeze..

Thanks for leading the way.  I may make the plunge for the Mullards.  I have a soft spot in my heart for them and I like 7308's, but I will give the Ediswans a chance first. I understand that the Ediswans are similar to the Mullards. If so, I’m delighted. The bass is much deeper and full. The mods are clean and I swear the piano is in my room. The highs are crisp and clear without being brilliant. This a nice match for my speakers, which have berillium tweeters.

Where did you get your Mullards?

Norm
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« Last Edit: 12/05/17 at 03:12:14 by NormD »  

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stone_of_tone
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #197 - 12/06/17 at 13:57:12
 
Hi Norm. Yeah, I'm addicted to these Mullards.
Running one in my Audio Research Line Stage today, with Tungsrams for inputs/ZMA.....ohhh, so good!

My two pair of Mulls are from Upscale......Platinum Cryo'd.
https://www.upscaleaudio.com/collections/vacuum-tubes/products/mullard-e188cc-73...

The French OEM'd from Mullard.....are here:
http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/6922-E88CC-Tube-Types/Mullard-E188CC-7308

....couple others out there have them too.

....and yes, spot on description of the Ediswans....they will always find their way back in my ZMA. However, the little the Mulls give up in the bass....they all so make up for it in the midrange thru treble. + the hit I get out of them, from my ARC Line Stage......is so good...... . I also fly them solo as a pair in my ZMA inputs....ZDSD running them direct.
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« Last Edit: 12/06/17 at 14:04:02 by stone_of_tone »  

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Jeff of Arabica
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #198 - 12/08/17 at 06:19:50
 
Has anyone partaken in some serious/dedicated EL34 tube rolling in the ZMA?  Lots of talk about KT66's and KT77's.  Curious as to anyone's experience with various EL34's.  
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« Last Edit: 12/08/17 at 17:16:47 by Jeff of Arabica »  

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #199 - 12/08/17 at 16:25:56
 
Jeff,

I can't give you pages of prose about tube subtleties but for the last several years I've been using various quads of coin based 6PS3-E tubes in my ZMA  I also have a quad of Tug-Sol EL34s that I've used.  I have Tug-Sol and Gold Lion KT66s too but everytime I put them in I end up taking them out after a couple days.  While the EL34s are similar to the 6PS3-Es (and take advantage of the Hazen Grid mod) I always go back to the 6PS3-E.  To me they just have a "sweeter" sound.  Plus, they are very affordable.  Try a quad:  [urlhttp://www.cryoset.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=22_80&osCsid=16425415cc2f68a993098e61e59a93bd][/url]   Smiley
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #200 - 12/08/17 at 18:57:49
 
Hey you are not supposed to reveal the secret cheap source of those output tubes! Smiley

I use these in my Torii to good effect, especially with the ZROCK2 to help tailor the sound. . . . Interesting tubes.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #201 - 12/08/17 at 18:59:54
 
Don't worry Lon, Ill let you know when I purchase my set and then you can post the Blue Light for us all to look into.  Then.. Poof!  "What tubes are you referring to Lon?"
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #202 - 12/08/17 at 19:03:13
 
LOL! You'll enjoy them Jeff. Wink
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #203 - 12/08/17 at 20:47:36
 
Damn, I forgot about those coin based buggers. Thanks for the reminder.

Anyway, I grabbed a pair from my matched quad Cryoset 6H23n-EB's and put in my ZMA inputs ....running direct from ZDSD. I forgot how good they are! Glad I bought my uber expensive stuff when I did two years ago ~ yes. But, the EB's are the bargain.

Steve's uplifting holiday message was awesome! I'm still chuckling!
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« Last Edit: 12/08/17 at 20:56:04 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #204 - 12/08/17 at 23:50:56
 
I bought 2 or 3 quads from and ebay seller (Svetlana or something) with very good luck.  They may have been slightly more than the cryo'd - which came later.

But on second thought, you probably wouldn't like them.   Roll Eyes
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #205 - 12/09/17 at 15:57:19
 
Thanks Archie for bringing those back up from JofA's inquiry about 34's. I have a long road till my ZROCK2 arrives.....so checking out these coin based for sweetness will keep me busy rolling inputs with them.

My next quad of KT66's, are coming from Cryo too. Great price including Cryo.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #206 - 12/09/17 at 18:00:11
 
I thought I might mention that although I have several quads of these tubes, I don't think I've worn any out yet since they all bias very closely when swapping.  Low price and long life.
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