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Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet? (Read 174918 times)
NormD
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #650 - 04/14/19 at 23:55:50
 
I'm running 7027a's from TAD and I'm not thinking go rolling anything else at this point. Too much to do and too little time. And I retire in two weeks!
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Archie
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #651 - 04/15/19 at 00:37:12
 
Norm, have you tried a 7581A?
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NormD
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #652 - 04/15/19 at 03:02:15
 
I have tried the 7081a's and I like the 7027 better - they seem to have a more balanced range, whatever that means.
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Lon
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #653 - 04/15/19 at 03:36:45
 
NormD wrote on 04/14/19 at 23:55:50:
IAnd I retire in two weeks!

Congrats on the retirement! You're going to love it! Like me you may miss making a bit more money, but you won[t miss the necessary grind.
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Archie
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #654 - 04/15/19 at 17:07:05
 
Thanks Norm.  I guess a quad of 7027As is in my future!  I'm also looking at some NOS Tungsram for my ZMA and CSP3 based on your recommendation -- assuming you still like them.
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Archie
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #655 - 04/15/19 at 19:16:12
 
Well, I'm sort of side-stepping into more expensive NOS tubes.  I just bought 8 Tungsram PCC88 NOS tubes for $17/ea, delivered.  They will cover my ZMA and CSP3 with one spare.  I could have had matched quads but for a lot more $.  I've had good luck with other tubes by the each so hopefully I will with these as well.
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NormD
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #656 - 04/15/19 at 20:08:48
 
I’m still running the Tungstam PCC88’s in my ZMA. I also have them in my ZTPRE and haven’t decided between these and my Amperex.
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Lon
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #657 - 04/15/19 at 21:09:10
 
I just put a six pack of 6N6P in my ZTPRE in place of the Amperex 7308. Enjoying the change, a less focused, more relaxed sound.
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Archie
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #658 - 04/15/19 at 21:23:08
 
Going further in, I just bought a used quad of RCA 7027As.  Seller claims 95% of new and matched.  From the late 1960s.  Should be fun!
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Lon
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #659 - 04/15/19 at 23:16:16
 
Lon wrote on 04/15/19 at 21:09:10:
I just put a six pack of 6N6P in my ZTPRE in place of the Amperex 7308. Enjoying the change, a less focused, more relaxed sound.

And just as quickly they are out. . . too diffuse and indistinct. I put the Sixpack of red-tipped 6N5P I got from Steve, these are sounding excellent right now.
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Archie
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #660 - 04/15/19 at 23:23:39
 
Lon, that's interesting.  What was the difference between the two six packs?  Not in sound but in tube.  Was it just that Steve hand picked great tubes?
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Lon
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #661 - 04/15/19 at 23:29:07
 
Steve thoroughly tests and matches tubes, and tests for factors many other testers DON'T. The 6N6P were just a batch I bought from eBay, not tested and matched. The 6N5P were little jewels from Steve. I've determined if he carries a tube type and brand you want or use, the best examples are from him.

And these are two different (compatible) tube types: the 6N6P are larger in size, slightly different electrically.
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Archie
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #662 - 04/15/19 at 23:30:41
 
Oh, I didn't catch that they were 6N6Ps. I read them as 6N5P.
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Archie
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #663 - 04/17/19 at 16:24:06
 
Tube update:

I found a matched quad of late '60s RCA 7027As for a reasonable price that I should have in a few days.  I'll get to see if they do for me what they are doing for everyone else.   Smiley
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Archie
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #664 - 04/23/19 at 00:24:30
 
I have the RCA 7027As in and while they sound quite nice, one seems to be weak.  I've had to swing the bias adjust all the way right to match two of the tubes.  I'll be contacting the seller and likely be sending the tubes back.  I don't trust that I'll get the life out of them that would justify the price.  The three good tubes are stronger than any tube I've had in with the meters ranging from 70s to an estimated 110mA+.  I've biased toward the low end at 76mA.
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Jeff of Arabica
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #665 - 04/23/19 at 00:57:13
 
Hey Arch,
Sorry to hear that man.  I was really hoping they would work out.  Good thing is you are covered well with purchasing on eBay, even if the seller gives you hassle.  Still, the reason you purchased them in the first place was to get a solid set of 7027A's in your system.  It is worth the journey so keep trying to find that quad that will deliver the goods.

I am also concerned that the lowest they would bias is 76mA.  That seems too high for the minimum.  I generally bias around 64 but can go below 60 if I wanted.  I don't because the strength of that tube type is its ability to handle higher bias settings.  

Send it back and keep looking.
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Archie
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #666 - 04/23/19 at 01:13:07
 
I'm a bit confused by what my meters are telling me.  I swapped the weak tube to the other side and I can equalize with a little bit of margin, maybe 2 to 4 mA.  On that side my bias window is from 52 mA to 80 mA while on the other side with the tubes balancing well, my bias window is 68 mA to 96 mA.  Using the controls to "test" tube strength, the weak tube is measuring far below the other three with a much lower high and low reading.  I don't really know how to use the meters as tube testers but clearly one tube has different readings despite being well matched according to the seller's test results.  I'm biasing at 72 mA right now.  These do seem to have a nice clarity.
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NormD
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #667 - 04/23/19 at 02:29:07
 
I have my TAD 7027a's biased a 50ma.
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Archie
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #668 - 04/23/19 at 15:53:06
 
Norm, that seems pretty low for that tube.  The 35W plate dissipation lends itself to higher biasing, no?  I realize it's a different tube but I bias my 7581As at 64mA.  Heat is not an issue, especially with the anniversary mods.

Since these RCAs are 99% likely to go back, I'm considering a quad of Tung-sol 7027As.
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NormD
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #669 - 04/23/19 at 16:05:29
 
Archie:

I forget how to figure the right biasing, so I may be low. Will you please refresh my memory?

If you want to test drive a set of 7027a’s, PM me - I have a set of JJ’s.
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Archie
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #670 - 04/23/19 at 16:20:21
 
This link has a calculator.  Jeff posted his ZMA voltage a while back.  I think it was under 400V.  The A and AB are for 90% and 70% capacity.  Even with my faulty memory, 60mA+ is easily handled.

http://www.tedweber.com/webervst/tubes1/calcbias.htm


Edit:  Check out some of Jeff's posts on page 10 of this thread.  His plate voltage was 390V.
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NormD
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #671 - 04/23/19 at 16:37:53
 
Thanks for the reminder and link. I’ll move my bias up this evening.
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NormD
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #672 - 04/24/19 at 15:24:31
 
VIVA tubes has a sale. Here is a link to 7027a’s.

https://www.vivatubes.com/search.php?search_query=7027a&section=product
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Archie
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #673 - 04/25/19 at 01:08:05
 
That's a good price on the Tung-Sols.  I might jump on a quad of those.
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Jeff of Arabica
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #674 - 04/25/19 at 08:07:05
 
Norm,
Archie is right.  Get the bias up on your 7027A's.  It's a great tube type match with the ZMA and its design is robust, handling higher bias settings with ease.  Not only does it handle the higher bias, it excels with a setting of 60mA+  

64mA is where I currently have my JAN Phillips ECG 7027A's set.  They can handle more, but I have found this setting best with this specific make/model tube.  Be sure to experiment with a range of settings with your tubes and let your ears be the judge.  I would not hesitate to bias then anywhere under 70mA without an infrared thermometer to check your power transformer temps.  
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Archie
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #675 - 04/27/19 at 18:28:34
 
I sent those RCA 7027A tubes back and I bought a quad of the Tung-Sol.  This seller has a great price and 24 hr burn in.  I bought my Tung-Sol 7581As from him and have been very satisfied.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/QUAD-FOUR-Tung-Sol-FACTORY-PLATINUM-MATCHED-7027A-7027-...
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Archie
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #676 - 05/02/19 at 01:16:42
 
I received the eight NOS Tungsram PCC88s that I bought from an ebay seller in Serbia.  I'm either easy to please or these tubes are fantastic.  I have them in my CSP3 and ZMA.  I'm using them with the Tung-Sol 7581As.  An added benefit of these tubes is that my IERC shields fit on them.  The 6N1P tubes are slightly too fat.

I think I'll buy another eight as backups.  I doubt they will get cheaper with time and he gave me a decent deal.
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Archie
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #677 - 05/04/19 at 17:15:34
 
I have the new Tung-Sol 7027As in now and they are sounding quite good but not different than the 7581As.  I have them biased at 72mA right now.  I'll see how much heat is generated by the transformers but so far at 68mA and post anniversary mods and ZLC, the transformers run very cool even after 12 hours.
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Archie
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #678 - 05/05/19 at 18:20:02
 
As the tubes settle in, things are sounding spectacular.  I don't know if it's the Tungsram PC88s, the 7027As or the combination of both.  I had some Kate Wolf live playing and she sounded more pure and there than I've heard before.  Seems to be an overall tightening and focus.
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HockessinKid
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #679 - 05/05/19 at 18:47:11
 
Congrats Archie. Sounds like a great tube combination in the ZMA. You can really adjust the sound and tone of the ZMA through tube rolling. It's almost like having multiple amplifiers.  Great adaptability if you end up changing speakers sometime in the future.

HK
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #680 - 05/05/19 at 23:38:35
 
Archie, sounds like you have gotten to a great place! Your explanation makes sense to me as I imagine how those tubes could compliment one another. Both 7027As and PCC88s are similar, tending to a comparatively big spacious sound with a nice open balance...dynamic, and with good detail.

Seems the Tungsol 7027A has a particularly big, dynamic and focussed sound, bigger and more focused than many, but nicely articulate and open. Compared to its 807 sibling, my preference for some years now... American made 807s are close kin sonically, but tend to be less forceful, more complex and airy, at least in my setup...So when I use 7027s, I like to tone back the focus and power a bit.

I find the Tungsram PCC88s are one of the warmer PCC88s, while still having good fine detail and textures. Not quite as clear as some PCC88s, but having beautiful PCC88 traits in a little subtler and warmer way.... I can imagine how the Tungsrams could balance with the 7027s really nicely. The bigness and focus of the Tungsols supported by Tungsram's textures, and toned back a touch with their warmish complexity. Whatever, it sounds like you found a beauty spot!

All the adjustments you have been making with mods are probably coming to fruition too! After all my amp experiments, now about done, all tubes I try sound better. I would imagine this to be the case with the modifications Steve did for you, especially once the caps are nicely burnt in.
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