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Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet? (Read 33389 times)
stone_of_tone
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Posts: 2641
Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #150 - 12/29/15 at 15:21:05
 
Hey LR, I recently replaced mine after 22 months. I put the new matched quad in on 11/23, last month. I stuck with the Tung-Sol reissue KT66's. ......Two year anniversary for my ZMA, coming Jan/22nd.

I considered getting them from Cryoset, but decided to go un-cryo from TubeDepot.com, out of Memphis.

Nice, to put in a nice fresh quad, and because we have them, see the meters go to full bias pretty damn quick....mine were so tired too. We get to bias and balance perfectly!

I noticed something too? This new fresh quad is DEAD quiet. The quad Steve sent...they were a little noisey and one tube dragged to warm up pretty soon in on..... . It can happen. However, Tube Depot, I have loved for years and this quad is rock solid stellar!

I might someday, try the TADS Lon is suggesting. But, all research indicates INPUT Tubes make the most difference. As I stated in my post just above, loving those tubes.
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« Last Edit: 12/29/15 at 15:32:35 by stone_of_tone »  

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Lon
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #151 - 12/29/15 at 16:06:58
 
In my experience all tubes make a difference in every Deware amp or preamp I've owned. I can distinctly hear the differences in power tubes. Just saying. I liked the Tung-Sol the least of the three I've tried in my Torii Mk IIIs and Mk II. Different amps, yes. But my mileage. Others vary.
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« Last Edit: 12/29/15 at 16:07:20 by Lon »  

HR-1,ZP3,ZTPRE,Torii MkIII,ZBIT,ZROCK2,Taboo MkIV;PS Audio:Soloist SE,DMP+DSD,P10,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs,Mapleshade:Dbl Helix+,SamsonV2+V3;CambrAudi CXU;Rega RP3,TTPSU,Groovetracer upgrades,Exact2;VooDoo Cremona +Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner,Oppo PM-1,Audeze LCD-2
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will
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #152 - 12/30/15 at 00:21:32
 
I agree with Lon. It may be true that inputs do the most...may be...but I hear notable differences with changes in any of the eight tube positions I use. Even VRs to me are pretty powerful. OA3 to OB3 is a real signature change, and even between vintages of OB3 by the same maker, one is a bit warmer and more textural, and the other more bold, articulate and dynamic, again a very good tuning tool. The ZMA OA3 sounds like you can't change to a different voltage tube, but at least in the MKIII and MKIV, different OA3 makes and shapes sound different enough to definitely prefer one over another in a given tube set.

And power tubes have more effect than VRs. To work around a given power tube, tuning to preferences with the others is no doubt a valid choice.

But that leaves out an important set of possibilities if you want to go deep. Similar in over-all sound influence to inputs (but with a different vibe since they are POWER tubes), their sound qualities not only change the amp, but effect the subtle qualities of the other tubes. I am glad to have several favorite power tubes to change things up. For example, the Ediswans in the CSP3 and Mystery being too much of a good thing could possibly be just right with a power tube that has a lot of spaciousness and inner detail. Possibly.

Right now I have winnowed down to the Valve Art KT66 (looks just like TAD, but I guess without the TAD selection system) Genalex KT66, and Tungsol 6L6G. For my preferences, to really tune the sound, I use them all at different times. Can't say now how the Tungsol KT66 would fit in there, but I preferred these tubes over it early on and the Tungsol KT66 have been in my Blue Torii since where some very open Telsa PCC88s bring them out nicely.

Long story short Stone...the way you are having fun with tuning to taste with tubes, you may enjoy a little variety of power tubes to work with. And the ZMA, with its bias tuning would make it a more powerful tuning tool I guess.
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« Last Edit: 12/30/15 at 00:51:37 by will »  

PSA P5/modified Brickwall/Shunyata Defender/more; MacMini/Audirvana>Jitterbug/Regen> modified Gustard x20pro DAC; DIY + Pi Audio PCs; DIY ICs + USB; Decware-Jupiter CSP3, Torii MKIV, HR1-all modified; DIY Speaker Cables; feet-Madscientist, Archie's, isocups, DIY
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Lon
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #153 - 12/30/15 at 01:13:32
 
In my post from yesterday I said Gold Lion but meant to say Genalex.
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stone_of_tone
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #154 - 12/31/15 at 16:08:28
 
Neither of you own ZMA's. Input tubes matter the most as stated. So, no need to pee on the tree here, to mark your territory you don't have (read ZMA).
Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

Happy New Year, you two blowhards!  Have some fun tonight. Don't spend it on the Forum here!  

Who loves ya baby!
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Lon
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Posts: 13053
Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #155 - 12/31/15 at 16:15:09
 
Nobody is "peeing on the tree," just offering advice on a great power tube imo, one I've preferred after using two other brands, both of whom had one fail on me early as well. I'd have a ZMA if I wanted one, I don't want one. But my guess is the TAD tubes would shine in the ZMA. I was offering that advice to Eric, not you.

Happy new year. We're going out to dinner and then staying in and have some sober fun.
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« Last Edit: 12/31/15 at 16:23:51 by Lon »  

HR-1,ZP3,ZTPRE,Torii MkIII,ZBIT,ZROCK2,Taboo MkIV;PS Audio:Soloist SE,DMP+DSD,P10,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs,Mapleshade:Dbl Helix+,SamsonV2+V3;CambrAudi CXU;Rega RP3,TTPSU,Groovetracer upgrades,Exact2;VooDoo Cremona +Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner,Oppo PM-1,Audeze LCD-2
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stone_of_tone
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #156 - 12/31/15 at 17:34:31
 
You don't own a ZMA ~ so don't comment on the ZMA. It is pretty simple...... .






Listening Room:



Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew

Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)/Sandwich weighted for Isolation

Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC


Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder
***************************************************************
W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the curb quite a few superb DAC'S!
***************************************************************
(@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192)
{also @ kept/-20 Ref Level & -.5db Input volume Level}


WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps
(NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Input Tube~6N1P-EV's for Output Tubes & 5U4G-C Rectifier)
****************************************************
10 of 10 for Input tube & 8 of 10 voltage for Output tubes
Volume adjustment usage at 25% to 45% of usable volume
****************************************************

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
(NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 in my A12 an B12 positions~6N23P-EV's for Inverter Tubes~JAN Sylvania 0A3's & Tung-Sol KT66's)
ZMA adjusted at 25% to 35% of usable volume

***************************************************
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades
***************************************************

Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)




Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)

XLO Pro Power Cords to CSP3 an ZMA
All four pieces of Gear running from an: ADCOM ACE - 515 AC enhancer

PS=the: NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 /Inputs = ZMA are breathtaking.............. .
Also: Cryoset 6N23N-EB's, rotated in and out of Inputs/ZMA

NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Input Tube/CSP3 ~ not taken for granted neither......... .
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« Last Edit: 12/31/15 at 17:59:29 by stone_of_tone »  

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Lon
Seasoned Member
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"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 13053
Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #157 - 12/31/15 at 18:26:16
 
What's simple is that you have no authority over what I post, this year or next.
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« Last Edit: 12/31/15 at 18:27:44 by Lon »  

HR-1,ZP3,ZTPRE,Torii MkIII,ZBIT,ZROCK2,Taboo MkIV;PS Audio:Soloist SE,DMP+DSD,P10,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs,Mapleshade:Dbl Helix+,SamsonV2+V3;CambrAudi CXU;Rega RP3,TTPSU,Groovetracer upgrades,Exact2;VooDoo Cremona +Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner,Oppo PM-1,Audeze LCD-2
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will
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #158 - 12/31/15 at 22:26:09
 
Stone,

Sorry you find our attempts to help people based on our rather serious experimentation as "blowing hard." Personally, I really appreciate others giving useful information based on their experience. It helps me understand better what is going on in general, and can help me get the sound I love....To me this is what this forum is about.

What we were talking about was the nature of tube sound.... and the interaction between tubes in Decware amps. As Lon said, with all Decware amps he has used, and the same for me, all tubes notably effect the sound if a system is revealing at all. In this room I have used an SE34, Rachael, Blue Torii, Torii MKIII and MKIV, Zstage, Taboo, and CSP3 and every tube makes a difference in all of those. Though I have not heard a Mystery amp, to me it defies logic that any of Steve's amps would not clearly reflect the various characters of different power tubes.

And though not necessarily my experience, even if it were true that inputs across the board brought about the most powerful sound shifts, this does not mean power tubes do not bring about powerful sound shifts also. I would be dumbfounded if Steve did not agree! Now which is the best in a given setting, who knows.
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PSA P5/modified Brickwall/Shunyata Defender/more; MacMini/Audirvana>Jitterbug/Regen> modified Gustard x20pro DAC; DIY + Pi Audio PCs; DIY ICs + USB; Decware-Jupiter CSP3, Torii MKIV, HR1-all modified; DIY Speaker Cables; feet-Madscientist, Archie's, isocups, DIY
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stone_of_tone
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Listen Often/Listen
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Posts: 2641
Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #159 - 01/03/16 at 18:18:45
 
~Bloviating~ Roll Eyes Grin







Listening Room:



Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew

Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)/Sandwich weighted for Isolation

Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC


Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder
***************************************************************
W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the curb quite a few superb DAC'S!
***************************************************************
(@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192)
{also @ kept/-20 Ref Level & -.5db Input volume Level}


WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps
(NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Input Tube~6N1P-EV's for Output Tubes & 5U4G-C Rectifier)
****************************************************
10 of 10 for Input tube & 8 of 10 voltage for Output tubes
Volume adjustment usage at 25% to 45% of usable volume
****************************************************

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
(NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 in my A12 an B12 positions~6N23P-EV's for Inverter Tubes~JAN Sylvania 0A3's & Tung-Sol KT66's)
ZMA adjusted at 25% to 35% of usable volume

***************************************************
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades
***************************************************

Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)




Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)

***************************************************************************
XLO Pro Power Cords to CSP3 an ZMA
All four pieces of Gear running from an: ADCOM ACE - 515 AC enhancer

~OR~

PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport, ZDSD an CSP3, Regenerated/120 ~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output)
***************************************************************************

PS=the: NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 /Inputs = ZMA are breathtaking.............. .
Also: Cryoset 6N23N-EB's, rotated in and out of Inputs/ZMA

NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Input Tube/CSP3 ~ not taken for granted neither......... .
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« Last Edit: 01/03/16 at 18:23:18 by stone_of_tone »  

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Audio Alchemy DTI-Pro
Audio Magic Mystic Reference I2S
Audio Alchemy DDE 3.0
Kimber Select 1030
Zen Select #76
Kimber Select 3033
Polk Audio LS-90
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Lord Soth
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Posts: 300
Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #160 - 01/05/16 at 17:15:41
 
I agree with both Will and Lon.

I own the CSP3, CSP2+ and Torii Mk4.
Steve's amps are built based on the concept of a straight wire with gain.
So every tube from the input to the output will make a difference to your sound.

For those with a limited budget, your amp will still sound good with the stock tubes. But as a tube roller, I'm very certain that the sound in your Decware amp can still be improved with better NOS tubes in place.

Now, back to the concept of a straight wire with gain design.
This is the reason why Joe's tube lore has stood the test of time.
The pinched waist really does sound the best of all the 6DJ8s, except  for maybe the Stuttgart Lorenz PCC88 which I was fortunate enough to acquire.
Regardless of your particular amp, Decware or otherwise and even ZMA or otherwise, joe's tube lore is highly reliable.

As for power tubes , as someone who has tube rolled with NOS EL34s MULLARDS, Phillips BROWNbases and Philips Metalbase tubes, the metal base tubes are really worth the extra , if you can find them. I'm really fortunate to have gotten a few quads of them for my Torii Mk4, which is why I'm certain that my Decware amp is running at peak performance.
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stone_of_tone
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #161 - 01/07/16 at 16:18:18
 
Once again, IF you don't own it ~ don't comment on its Tube Fidelity.
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« Last Edit: 01/07/16 at 16:18:38 by stone_of_tone »  

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Audio Alchemy DDE 3.0
Kimber Select 1030
Zen Select #76
Kimber Select 3033
Polk Audio LS-90
Tri-config/TipToes & Vibropods underneath Speakers
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Archie
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Posts: 694
Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #162 - 01/10/16 at 19:09:06
 
LR -- I've been running a quad of the Gold Lion KT66s from Cryoset and I've liked them better than the Tungsol but I also just put back in a quad of 6P3S-E - 6L6 - 6L6GT that I bought on ebay some time ago.  They are excellent and a real bargain compared to other options.  Plus they have a strong blue glow!   Wink

Let us know what you think if you decide to try some.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/171702074721?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STR...
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Lon
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guts is
worthless!"
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Posts: 13053
Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #163 - 01/10/16 at 19:30:59
 
Interesting. I ordered a quad. They're matched I assume? I hope.
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HR-1,ZP3,ZTPRE,Torii MkIII,ZBIT,ZROCK2,Taboo MkIV;PS Audio:Soloist SE,DMP+DSD,P10,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs,Mapleshade:Dbl Helix+,SamsonV2+V3;CambrAudi CXU;Rega RP3,TTPSU,Groovetracer upgrades,Exact2;VooDoo Cremona +Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner,Oppo PM-1,Audeze LCD-2
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Archie
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Posts: 694
Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #164 - 01/10/16 at 19:48:49
 
Mine are and the add says they are too.  I'm thinking of getting a second quad before he runs out.  If you search 6P3S-E there is a lot of chit chat on these tubes on the Forum.  I would not call them bass shy anymore as I did when I first got them.
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Archie
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Posts: 694
Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #165 - 01/10/16 at 20:09:55
 
Just ordered another quad of the 6P3S-E.  I also considered the TAD KT66 but these are about a third the price and are good for me now.
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Lon
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"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 13053
Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #166 - 01/10/16 at 20:28:51
 
Cool. I remember you and Mark and a few others talking about these. I love the TAD KT-66 and have gotten more hours out of them than any other output tubes I've had in the Torii in years. I'll be ordering another quad this year. But I'll try these too. . . . I have three Toriis so there are always a place for another quad.
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« Last Edit: 01/10/16 at 21:46:42 by Lon »  

HR-1,ZP3,ZTPRE,Torii MkIII,ZBIT,ZROCK2,Taboo MkIV;PS Audio:Soloist SE,DMP+DSD,P10,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs,Mapleshade:Dbl Helix+,SamsonV2+V3;CambrAudi CXU;Rega RP3,TTPSU,Groovetracer upgrades,Exact2;VooDoo Cremona +Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner,Oppo PM-1,Audeze LCD-2
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stone_of_tone
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Listen Often/Listen
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Posts: 2641
Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #167 - 01/11/16 at 18:07:45
 
LR, did you get a new Quad? What are you biasing at (these days)?

I was using 52 mA for the longest time. I just went back to 60 mA! So much better for my Ediswan Input tubes. Better for the 0A3's and the Inverter tubes too with these Edi's. Transients are total killer now!

Torii III weenies don't get to customize their Input Tubes!

That was fun to say!   Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
Especially when Torii weenies insist on commenting about tube rolling in an Amp (ZMA).....they don't have/own.....ANY EXPERIENCE WITH. But, some people are Legends in there own minds!


INSIGHT - The two small 9 pin tubes (6N23P) that make up the input stage and
phase inverter are used to drive the output stage. These tubes have an effect on
the overall matching of a given pair of output tubes. That means you can have a
perfectly matched pair and an odd or misbehaving 6N23P could cause the tubes to
be off sightly. Of course with the Mystery Amp you can simply compensate with the
ingenious balance control.

....and since I tube roll:

NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 /Inputs = ZMA

Also: Cryoset 6N23N-EB's, rotated in and out of Inputs/ZMA

....so critical to balance.....and have the option to bias at: 50, 52, 54, 56, 58 or 60 mA.
(working "the" between the hashes, from 48 on up with subtlety).



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« Last Edit: 01/11/16 at 20:13:01 by stone_of_tone »  

Sony as Transport
Illuminati D-60
Audio Alchemy DTI-Pro
Audio Magic Mystic Reference I2S
Audio Alchemy DDE 3.0
Kimber Select 1030
Zen Select #76
Kimber Select 3033
Polk Audio LS-90
Tri-config/TipToes & Vibropods underneath Speakers
360 degree Rm Treats
  IP Logged
stone_of_tone
Seasoned Member
****


Listen Often/Listen
Deep

Posts: 2641
Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #168 - 01/13/16 at 19:52:18
 
Try Cable Rolling!

Kimber Kable KS6063
Broad-shouldered, muscular, and hugely dynamic, KS6063 is simultaneously capable of brutal transients and the most intimate delicacy. This reference cable delivers unforgettable experiences, with effortless extensions into both extremes.

Not bull-malarkey!  .....so damn glad to have um'!!!!!!!!!

DECWARE UL RULES.......and the rest of the Market can just drool!






Listening Room:



Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew

Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)/Sandwich weighted for Isolation

Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC

Shunyata Research Zitron Alpha Digital Power Cord to ZDSD!

Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder
***************************************************************
W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the curb quite a few superb DAC'S!
***************************************************************
(@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192)

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps
(NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Input Tube~6N1P-EV's for Output Tubes & 5U4G-C Rectifier)
****************************************************
10 of 10 for Input tube & *9* of 10 voltage for Output tubes
Volume adjustment usage at 25% to 55% of usable volume
****************************************************

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
~BIASED at *60* mA~
(NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 in my A12 an B12 positions~6N23P-EV's for Inverter Tubes~JAN Sylvania 0A3's & Tung-Sol KT66's)
ZMA adjusted at 25% to 35% of usable volume

***************************************************
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades
***************************************************

Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)




Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)


XLO Pro Power Cords to CSP3 an ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport, ZDSD an CSP3, Regenerated/*122*~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output)
***************************************************************************

PS: NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 /Inputs = ZMA are breathtaking.............. .

*Also: Cryoset 6N23N-EB's, rotated in and out of Inputs/ZMA*

NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Input Tube/CSP3 ~ not taken for granted neither......... .

NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 /PRE Outputs of CSP3, running out into ZMA Inputs with Ediswan's = revelatory!
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« Last Edit: 01/13/16 at 20:36:24 by stone_of_tone »  

Sony as Transport
Illuminati D-60
Audio Alchemy DTI-Pro
Audio Magic Mystic Reference I2S
Audio Alchemy DDE 3.0
Kimber Select 1030
Zen Select #76
Kimber Select 3033
Polk Audio LS-90
Tri-config/TipToes & Vibropods underneath Speakers
360 degree Rm Treats
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Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 13053
Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #169 - 01/19/16 at 00:25:05
 
Interestingly cryoset.com is now offering these Reflector 6P3S-E, and at about the same price as the foreign seller I bought a quad from. So I ordered some from cryoset as well. . . we'll see which comes first!
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« Last Edit: 01/19/16 at 00:25:27 by Lon »  

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Lon
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #170 - 01/21/16 at 23:34:42
 
Well, I got these tubes in from Cryoset and tried them out. Back to the sound I had in the Torii before I moved to KT66--more upfront, more vibrant perhaps. . . but a bit light weight and missing the solidity and openness I find so appealing in the KT66, especially the TAD. A bit less "3D". . . .I had to put in some rock because jazz, especially piano, didn't sound quite right to me on these tubes (so far).

I'll keep them in and out a few days and see if the bass comes in soon. . . but I miss the TADs already!
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« Last Edit: 01/21/16 at 23:42:33 by Lon »  

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stone_of_tone
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #171 - 01/24/16 at 15:42:36
 
INSIGHT - The two small 9 pin tubes (6N23P) that make up the input stage and
phase inverter are used to drive the output stage. These tubes have an effect on
the overall matching of a given pair of output tubes. That means you can have a
perfectly matched pair and an odd or misbehaving 6N23P could cause the tubes to
be off sightly. Of course with the Mystery Amp you can simply compensate with the
ingenious balance control.

....and since I tube roll:

NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 /Inputs = ZMA

Also: Cryoset 6H23N-EB's, rotated in and out of Inputs/ZMA

....so critical to balance.....and have the option to bias at: 50, 52, 54, 56, 58 or 60 mA.
(working "the" between the hashes, from 48 on up with subtlety).

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #172 - 01/26/16 at 14:31:43
 
mark58 wrote on 02/28/15 at 22:08:41:
OK, I did it!  I bought the 6P3S-E tubes...  two pair of 60's tubes from the Photon Plant and a Quad of those reflectors from the Saratov plant from the 70's....from the seller Will bought from.  I hope they're good because I could have had that RCA Black Plate Quad for what I paid. The search is over...for now. Mark.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/181300188954?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STR...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/171604076434?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STR...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/171604080168?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STR...


Seems about a year that people have been reporting on these. I have about 30 hours on my cryo'd quad (serving background and TV duty) and am listening critically now. Quite nice. In comparison to the TAD KT66 more forward and less bass impact and depth, at least so far. More detailed perhaps, but I don't feel I miss the details with the TADs. There is much less of an "open field of sound" than with the TADs and a much denser center fill, a very different soundscape.

Nice change of pace though. I know I'll miss the TADs and after about 15 months it's really time for a new quad of TADs. those 6P35s are sure cheaper though. . . by more than half. . .and I'm enjoying the change now that they've bloomed and de-sizzled a bit.
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HR-1,ZP3,ZTPRE,Torii MkIII,ZBIT,ZROCK2,Taboo MkIV;PS Audio:Soloist SE,DMP+DSD,P10,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs,Mapleshade:Dbl Helix+,SamsonV2+V3;CambrAudi CXU;Rega RP3,TTPSU,Groovetracer upgrades,Exact2;VooDoo Cremona +Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner,Oppo PM-1,Audeze LCD-2
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #173 - 01/26/16 at 14:58:20
 
Torii III? We eat Torii III's for lunch on this Thread. You must be lost? Or, confused?!   Cheesy  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D


Further sonic pleasure improvements (Zen Mystery Amp & CSP3) have been Tube Rolling:

NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 /Inputs = ZMA are breathtaking.............. .

*Also: Cryoset 6H23N-EB's, rotated in and out of Inputs/ZMA*
(Way different internal guts/halo/getter...they are NOT 6N23P-EV's)

NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Input Tube/CSP3 ~ not taken for granted neither......... .

NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 /PRE Outputs of CSP3, running  into ZMA Inputs with Ediswan's = revelatory!  



Furthermore, customizing my Acoustic Zen Adagio's:

Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)
...........................Revelatory!

Especially when the Adagio Drivers are equipped with underhung voice coils and Neodymium magnets – a short voice coil in a long magnetic gap allows to eliminates most of the distortions and coloration.

......then with the Transmission Lines.....magnificent overacheivers!





PS: Goals in 2016/for my System:

1) Three more choice/select/NOS/Platinum pairs of 6922's from Upscale Audio.

2) I'm bringing in a PASS LABS XA 30.8 (used/demo/seasoned in), to challenge my Zen Mystery Amp. Yes, the XA 30.8.....not the XA 30.5.
(I'll probably end up keeping the 30.8 & the ZMA will be going nowhere~it stays/period).

3) Kimber Internal Silver wire or Duelund, inside Adagio's...and Upgrade Caps to Mundorf Silver Oils.








Listening Room:


Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew

Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)/Sandwich weighted for Isolation

Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC

Shunyata Research Ztron Alpha Digital Power Cord to ZDSD!

Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder
***************************************************************
W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the curb quite a few superb DAC'S!
***************************************************************
(@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192)

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps
(NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Input Tube~NOS Platinum Ediswan Cryogenic 6922's for Output Tubes & 5U4G-C Rectifier)
****************************************************
10 of 10 for Input tube & *9* of 10 voltage for Output tubes
Volume adjustment usage at 25% to 55% from 0
****************************************************

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
~BIASED at *60* mA~
(NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 in my A12 an B12 positions~6N23P-EV's for Inverter Tubes~JAN Sylvania 0A3's & Tung-Sol KT66's)
ZMA adjusted at 20% to 30% from 0

***************************************************
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades
***************************************************

Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)




Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)


XLO Pro Power Cords to CSP3 an ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport, ZDSD an CSP3, Regenerated/*122*~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output)
***************************************************************************

PS: NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 /Inputs = ZMA are breathtaking.............. .

*Also: Cryoset 6H23N-EB's, rotated in and out of Inputs/ZMA*
(Way different internal guts/halo/getter...they are NOT 6N23P-EV's)

NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Input Tube/CSP3 ~ not taken for granted neither......... .

NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 /PRE Outputs of CSP3, running  into ZMA Inputs with Ediswan's = revelatory!
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Posts: 13053
Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #174 - 01/26/16 at 15:03:34
 
UMMM. . . this thread does not belong to you, and that's where these tubes are discussed. See ya.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #175 - 01/26/16 at 15:06:13
 
Ummm....lost & confused.....as I suspected.   Tongue
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #176 - 01/26/16 at 15:12:05
 
Yes, apparently you are. Wink
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #177 - 01/26/16 at 15:17:07
 
Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin
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Posts: 17
Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #178 - 02/15/16 at 18:10:54
 
One of the issues I've had right from the start with my ZMA is the difficulty in achieving the recommended 50mA bias current. The Tung-Sol KT66 that came with amp couldn't quiet get there. The Harma KT66-Retro's I replaced the Tung-Sols with were better but not much better. I discovered that mains voltage has an affect on this by powering the ZMA with main re-generator with a fixed output voltage of 230v instead of the 251v I typically get at the mains socket and decided that this was the reason. I live across the road from the local substation. Subsequent research indicated that the Tung-Sol KT66 was atypical of most KT66s in that its bias current requirement was lower. Something was very wrong with my original KT66s.
My system has been out of use the last few months whilst I renovated my main listening room. Last weekend thing had reached the point where I could setup a basic system and start to have a listen and so took the opportunity to purchase a new matched quad of Tung-Sol KT66s. Ill admit that, with hind-sight, it's something I should have done from the start. The new Tung-Sol KT66s have sorted the bias adjustment issue and are sounding amazing. The subsequent listening session lead to an interesting discovery but that will the subject of another post.
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Marantz sa-7s1 -> Audio-GD Master 8 -> Decware ZMA -> Decware ERR.

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #179 - 02/15/16 at 19:16:49
 
I treat the 50 mA bias as more of a target and set bias more to the tube.  The original recommendation was 60 mA.  I bias my Gold Lion KT66s at 56 mA which is a bit higher than their minimum.  I think higher bias may cause the output transformers to run hotter but mine are still way below the 140 degrees Steve said was the design run point.

One of my original Tung-Sols is funky and takes a long time to settle so I don't use them.  I don't feel like I got near the life from that Tung-Sol tube that I should have.  I really like the 6P3S-Es from Russia but I had a problem with one or two from the last quad I bought.  After running fine for weeks, I left my house for an hour and when I came back there was a very loud and awful sound coming form my speakers and the left channel meters were pegged at the top.  After powering down and back up everything seemed fine but the left tubes started acting up several days later with the meters jumping and bad sounds coming from the left speaker.  Steve told me that they would be bad when I conferred with him over the original incident.

When cash flow improves I think I'll try the TAD KT66s from Cryoset.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #180 - 02/15/16 at 22:30:03
 
It seems I'm not the only to choose a different make of KT66 when the original Tung-Sols gave problems. The new quad of Tung-Sol KT66s are in a different class when compared to the originals.

The object of my initial listening session last Saturday was to get reacquainted with the system. The input tubes were Telefunken E88CCs, the phase splitters were Telefunken PCC88s and the output tubes were the new Tung-Sol KT66s. In general I was very impressed with the system, and as far as I could recall possibly the best I'd ever heard it. However, on about a third of the tracks it seemed as if the bass was leaking into the mid-range. At the time I put this down to a need for better equipment supports and acoustic treatments.

On Sunday I decided to swap the original 6N23Ps back in to remind me what the standard configuration sounded like. After about an hour I decided I preferred what I was hearing on Saturday and so swap the input tube for not for the Telefunken E88CC but the Siemans E88CC.
The result was much more like that which I was getting the previous day but not quite and the dark mid-range was still there on some tracks. I decided to swap the phase splitter to see what difference that might make. By chance I put the Telefunken E88CC instead of the PCC88s.
So did it make a difference? Yes!, one hell of a difference. For a start, gone was the darkening of the mid-range not mention all other benefits this brought with it. It was allowing the Siemans E88CC to perform as it should. It seems the choice of phase splitter tube can be critical.  
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Marantz sa-7s1 -> Audio-GD Master 8 -> Decware ZMA -> Decware ERR.

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stone_of_tone
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #181 - 02/16/16 at 14:30:54
 
Oh yeah, getting the original quad/sent with my ZMA out after 22 months this past November....they were noisey from the start.
My new quad of KT66 Tung-Sol are quiet and awesome.

Yes, I just made the Inverter Tubes a priority. I have a pair of Cryoset Cry'ode 6H23N-EB's in. ....see my complete tubes below.

After 25 months and 2500 hours on the originals from Steve....they were slow!  Anyone out there thinking it's your Input tubes being slow on your ZMA...it might be and probably is your Phase Inverter tubes. ....and yes, with only 2500 hours on them. Being a UL Amp...I drive it hard and Listen to it at 86 to 94db SPL's....you won't get 4500 hours out of the Inverters....only about 2500.  

Chranwood, I have some Mullards, Bels coming for Input and Output.....LOVING MY EDISWANS!!!!

I should get the Telefunken E88CC .....for Inverters too!





Listening Room:


Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew

Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)/Sandwich weighted for Isolation

Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC

Shunyata Research Ztron Alpha Digital Power Cord to ZDSD!

Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder
***************************************************************
W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the curb quite a few superb DAC'S!
***************************************************************
(@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192)

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps
(NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Input Tube~NOS Platinum Ediswan Cryogenic 6922's for Output Tubes & 5U4G-C Rectifier)
****************************************************
10 of 10 for Input tube & *9* of 10 voltage for Output tubes
Volume adjustment usage at 25% to 55% from 0
****************************************************

WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030

Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
~BIASED at *60* mA~
(NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 in my A12 an B12 positions~Cryoset 6H23N-EB's for Inverter Tubes~JAN Sylvania 0A3's & New Quad of Tube Depot Stealth/Tung-Sol KT66's)
ZMA adjusted at 10%, 15% to 25% max, from 0

***************************************************
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades
***************************************************

Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)
.....from 8ohm Taps




Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)


XLO Pro Power Cords to CSP3 an ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport, ZDSD an CSP3, Regenerated/*122*~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output)
***************************************************************************

PS: NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 /Inputs = ZMA are breathtaking.............. .

*Also: Cryoset 6H23N-EB's, rotated in and out of Inputs/ZMA*
(Way different internal guts/halo/getter...they are NOT 6N23P-EV's)

NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Input Tube/CSP3 ~ not taken for granted neither......... .

NOS/Platinum/Ediswan's CV2492/6922 /PRE Outputs of CSP3, running  into ZMA Inputs with Ediswan's = revelatory!
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« Last Edit: 02/16/16 at 15:50:42 by stone_of_tone »  

Sony as Transport
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Audio Magic Mystic Reference I2S
Audio Alchemy DDE 3.0
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Zen Select #76
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Tri-config/TipToes & Vibropods underneath Speakers
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Posts: 17
Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #182 - 02/16/16 at 18:19:02
 
I've decided I don't really care for the Siemans E88CC as an input tube, much preferring the Telefunken E88CC in that position, but the Siemans does make a fine phase-splitter tube along with the Telefunken E88CC.
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Marantz sa-7s1 -> Audio-GD Master 8 -> Decware ZMA -> Decware ERR.

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Posts: 17
Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #183 - 02/16/16 at 20:54:39
 
I'm going to have to temper my last post in regards to the Siemans E88CC as phase-splitter, simply put it's not in the Telefunken E88CC's league. I'm now running with Telefunken E88CC's for both input and phase-splitter and it's a case of "You don't know what you've got until it's gone". In this instance, a bit of looseness in the bass and a little clouding in the mid-range.
I'm not sure how much is due to running matched tubes in both positions, and how much is due to the Telefunken E88CC's abilities as a phase-splitter. It should be noted that the Telefunken also worked very well with the Siemans as the input tube. The issue I had with the Siemans was that I found it emphasised the treble a little too much. But that view may change once I install some acoustic panesl in my listening room. The room is pretty bare at the moment. It's a testament to the ERRx that the system sounds as good as it does.
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« Last Edit: 02/16/16 at 20:57:01 by Charnwood »  

Marantz sa-7s1 -> Audio-GD Master 8 -> Decware ZMA -> Decware ERR.

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Archie
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Posts: 694
Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #184 - 02/28/16 at 21:07:29
 
I've been running the stock ZMA input tubes but since one or more are going bad and may need changing, I was wondering if any ZMA owners who have changed their input tubes could tell me what specific changes they heard from their specific tube?  I'm not unhappy with the stock tubes but opportunity is knocking.  I might just change a pair so if you can say if you use them in the "11" or "12" spot it would be great.

I'm hoping for fairly specific descriptions, if possible.  Much thanks!  Smiley
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« Last Edit: 02/28/16 at 21:08:05 by Archie »  
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stone_of_tone
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #185 - 03/05/16 at 18:49:17
 
Charn', I believe you. I am going to go for another pair (ouch), of the Telefunken E88CC/6922's......for my phase splitter's.





Listening Room:


Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew

Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)/Sandwich weighted for Isolation

Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC

Shunyata Research Ztron Alpha Digital Power Cord to ZDSD!

Decware ZDSD DAC / Recorder
***************************************************************
W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the curb quite a few superb DAC'S!
***************************************************************
(@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192)


WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030


Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
~BIASED at *60* mA~
(NOS/Platinum/Telefunken E88CC/6922 in my A12 an B12 positions~Cryoset 6H23N-EB's for Inverter Tubes~JAN Sylvania 0A3's & New Quad of Tube Depot Stealth/Tung-Sol KT66's)


***************************************************
Kimber Select KS6063 Speaker Cable 8ft WBT-0681-Ag Spades
***************************************************

Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)


Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3kHz/18dB/Octave, Linkwitz/Riley Crossovers....with all crappy parts = gone)


XLO Pro Power Cord to ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport, ZDSD are Regenerated/*122*~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output)
***************************************************************************
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« Last Edit: 03/05/16 at 18:52:39 by stone_of_tone »  

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Tri-config/TipToes & Vibropods underneath Speakers
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Posts: 17
Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #186 - 03/06/16 at 11:32:09
 
Stone, I take it that you've tried the Telefunfen E88CC's as phase-splitters and found them to be beneficial before deciding to cause your wallet more grief.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #187 - 03/06/16 at 15:30:04
 
Yes, the Telefunken E88CC's as phase-splitters with my Ediswan's for Inputs. Kevin is going to continue to raise the price on the Tele's....so I'm biting the bullet now.

E88CC phase-splitters with my other/current pair of E88CC's and Ediswan rotation for Inputs = MAGIC. I have two pair of the Edi's.
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« Last Edit: 03/06/16 at 15:33:37 by stone_of_tone »  

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Illuminati D-60
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Audio Magic Mystic Reference I2S
Audio Alchemy DDE 3.0
Kimber Select 1030
Zen Select #76
Kimber Select 3033
Polk Audio LS-90
Tri-config/TipToes & Vibropods underneath Speakers
360 degree Rm Treats
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stone_of_tone
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #188 - 03/06/16 at 15:43:51
 
I am so impressed by what the best 6922's can do....I can't go back.

Plus, for those that are reading and have never heard what a pair of NOS Platinum Telefunken E88CC's from 1968, as phase-splitters with Ediswan NOS Platinum CV2492/6922's for Inputs of my ZMA can do, .....I guess you will never know?!!

Plus consider the amortization.....they last 5000 to 7500 hours. ..... quite a few years.   Worth it.

....also, bringing my Platinum Tubes and some Tubes I'm selling...to a Hickok Tester in Stillwater soon.
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« Last Edit: 03/06/16 at 16:02:56 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #189 - 11/25/17 at 02:45:17
 
It seems to be a while since this topic has been active, so I thought I'd ask for some current opinions. I'm running my year-old ZMA with a ZTPre and I love the sound. But we are always looking for a little more, no?

So I swapped out the stock 6N1P's with the National 7DJ8's in A12 and B12 and the sound stage and midrange have opened up considerably. I'm very happy.  Reading through this thread, there are favorable reviews about the Ediswans CV2492's and the Telefunken E88CC. The Ediswans are no longer on the Upscale site and we all know the Telefunken's are pricy.

Are folks still happy with the Telefunkens over the Nationals?  Other recommendations?
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #190 - 11/25/17 at 08:03:14
 
I don't have a ZMA but I am rocking a ZTPRE in my system. One complement of tubes I run in the ZTPRE is a sextet of ECC189 that though labeled Mullard and Lorenz I believe are Philips made tubes. Very clear and focused and dynamic tubes.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #191 - 11/25/17 at 14:38:32
 
Hi Norm....here is my gig....the last couple years now. I go without other things, so I can afford my NOS Plat' tubes.  :D  I can't go back to low power from my ZMA and I can't go back to less than these tubes I'm running below..... . I put the Russian tubes in to remind me of the original signature and will probably sell the Tung' 6922's ~ NOT the Tung' 7DJ8's....they are the perfect yang to my ying Mullard in my Audio Research LS-2B MkII.


Probably, trying these Siemens next. Easy resale on Audiogon...if they don't work out for me....... .
https://www.upscaleaudio.com/collections/preamp-tubes/products/siemens-a-frame-e...
.....might be an even better yang, in my ZMA as inputs.....with my Mullard in my ARC Line Stage.

NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Inverter Tubes~NOS RCA 0A3's & matched new production Quad/Tung-Sol KT66's

I don't like the Tele's as inputs....but live by them for inverter's.

https://www.upscaleaudio.com/collections/preamp-tubes/products/telefunken-e88cc-...


.......here is my order of Listening (keeping each scenario in one to two weeks at a time):

ZMA direct from ZDSD with Ediswan pair (Cryo'd) CV2492/6922 ....as inputs/ZMA

ZMA direct from ZDSD with Mullard pair (Cryo'd) 7308/E188CC ....as inputs/ZMA

ARC LS-2B/single Mullard 7308/E188CC (Cryo'd) to Tungsram pair PCC88/7DJ8 ...inputs/ZMA

.....I have my best pair of Cryogenic Ediswans in right now/direct as above mentioned....Heaven.


~NOS Platinum Tubes from Upscale Audio/Kevin:

(Great Britain) Mullard 7308/E188CC ~  2 pair (both pair Cryogenic)
(Germany) Telefunken E88CC ~ 1 pair (painfully expensive/worth it)
(US/Great Britain) Ediswan CV2492/6922 ~ 2 pair (one pair Cryogenic)
(Hungary) Tungsram 6922/E88CC ~ 1 pair
(Hungary) Tungsram PCC88/7DJ8 ~ 1 pair.

From Cryoset:
(Russia) 6N23N/P-EB ~ 2 pair

(Russia) 6N23P's ~ 2 pair/came with ZMA.    
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« Last Edit: 11/25/17 at 14:42:16 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #192 - 11/26/17 at 04:01:00
 
Watching the video for the Siemens, scares me.  However, I appreciate Kevin's honesty about them. I will pass on those. I like what he has to say in the video about the Philips PCC88/7Dj8+the reviews. Probably, my next pair for solo input for ZMA and running my Line Stage in to them.

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« Last Edit: 11/26/17 at 04:03:11 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #193 - 11/26/17 at 18:01:54
 
Norm, I am not a big fan of the Matsu Nationals. I would try the Tungsram PCC88's ....I love. However, .....all subjective...maybe I have a shitty pair of the Matsu's?

For me, other than receiving my ZROCK2 and hearing if it works (for me/certain genre's/recordings).....? I have tricked out my Listening Room System to the point...tube rolling is now my option and I enjoy it/but, not much more out there for me to roll/no complaints. Done rolling Speaker's now....nothing has beat my modified Adagio's with their underhung gig/German made (to Mr. Lee's spec's) with Mundorf MCap Supremes/gutted original x-over's.....and the Adagio Tweeter's.......the Swan's Tweeter's can't compete.....end of story.

Far as Ediswans go....they pop up on the Agon' tube section. Just Vet them well. The killer expensive Telefunken's are worth it for Inverter's and the next 10,000 hours (yes think about it.....pennies per use).

Unfortunately, Kevin's Tubes are supply and demand...but worth it to me.....to get the most out of my ZMA. Some people can't hear the difference I suppose....but in my Rig and Cabling.....I sure hear the difference.







.......here is my order of Listening (keeping each scenario in one to two weeks at a time):

ZMA direct from ZDSD with Ediswan pair (Cryo'd) CV2492/6922 ....as inputs/ZMA

ZMA direct from ZDSD with Mullard pair (Cryo'd) 7308/E188CC ....as inputs/ZMA

ARC LS-2B/single Mullard 7308/E188CC (Cryo'd) to Tungsram pair PCC88/7DJ8 ...inputs/ZMA.


.....currently running with ZDSD direct to ZMA (no Line Stage)....with Cryogenic Ediswan pair for inputs in my ZMA. All else (below) equal/in System.


Previous Decware Amplifier's/I have owned/Purchased new: SE84CS (#76 Zen Select/you see in my original Signature below/I used for 13 years/2001 till 2014), Torii MkIII & SuperZen CKC.





Listening Room:



Room Treatments from Michael Green & my Home Brew


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***************************************************************
W/Steve's Output Transformer's/kicking to the Curb quite a few superb DAC'S
***************************************************************
(@ -20 Ref Level, 0.0 Input volume and @ 16/192)


WBT RCA Kimber Select KS1030 ~.5 meter


Audio Research Stereo Line Stage Amplifier w/remote volume & mute LS-2B MkII
NOS Platinum/Mullard 7308/E188CC / Cryogenic


WBT-0102Ag RCA Kimber Select KS1030 ~.75 meter


currently.....NOS Platinum Tungsram PCC88/7DJ8 ~ 1 pair....in for Inputs/ZMA

Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
~BIASED at *56* mA~
NOS/Platinum/Mullard E188CC/7308's in my A12 an B12 Input positions Cryogenic~NOS/Platinum/Telefunken E88CC for Inverter Tubes~NOS RCA 0A3's & matched Quad/Tung-Sol KT66's

ZMA adjusted at  60-90% Gain ~ w/ARC Line Stage, running via Remote Control



***************************************************
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.....enjoying from 8 ohm ZMA Taps


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Auralex Subdude (a must)
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PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport, ARC Pre, and ZDSD, Regenerated/*120*~ Multiwave off...ZMA on High Current Output).


~NOS Platinum Tubes from Upscale Audio/Kevin:

(Great Britain) Mullard 7308/E188CC ~  2 pair (both pair Cryogenic)
(Germany) Telefunken 6922/E88CC ~ 1 pair (painfully expensive/worth it)
(US/Great Britain) Ediswan CV2492/6922 ~ 2 pair (one pair Cryogenic)
(Hungary) Tungsram 6922/E88CC ~ 1 pair
(Hungary) Tungsram PCC88/7DJ8 ~ 1 pair.

From Cryoset:
(Russia) 6N23N/P-EB ~ 2 pair

(Russia) 6N23P's ~ 2 pair/came with ZMA.    

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« Last Edit: 11/26/17 at 21:58:44 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #194 - 11/26/17 at 19:36:41
 
PS-Brent Jessee, does have some tubes....I might go after....and next fall, I might put Mundorf Silver Oil's in my Adagio's. .....this will be a super painful burn in process......could be worth it.

Other than (possibly these above mentioned).....enjoy it all....and keep the wallet closed!
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #195 - 12/02/17 at 20:34:45
 
Matched/NOS/Platinum/Mullard E188CC/7308's/Cryogenic in my A12 an B12 Input positions/ZMA

.........have taken over the lead!

.....these are breath taking tubes in the ZMA..... .


Matched/NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC for Inverter Tubes~NOS RCA 0A3's & matched Quad/Tung-Sol KT66's.
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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #196 - 12/05/17 at 01:39:31
 
stone:

You are hard to keep up with. I had just put my Nationals in my ZMA and really liked them but now you go ahead and put Telefunkens and Mullards in your ZMA and raise the bar?  Really?  How are we supposed to keep up and not go broke? I just received my Ediswans and Telefunkens and now you change to Mullards.  Jeeze..

Thanks for leading the way.  I may make the plunge for the Mullards.  I have a soft spot in my heart for them and I like 7308's, but I will give the Ediswans a chance first. I understand that the Ediswans are similar to the Mullards. If so, I’m delighted. The bass is much deeper and full. The mods are clean and I swear the piano is in my room. The highs are crisp and clear without being brilliant. This a nice match for my speakers, which have berillium tweeters.

Where did you get your Mullards?

Norm
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« Last Edit: 12/05/17 at 03:12:14 by NormD »  

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #197 - 12/06/17 at 13:57:12
 
Hi Norm. Yeah, I'm addicted to these Mullards.
Running one in my Audio Research Line Stage today, with Tungsrams for inputs/ZMA.....ohhh, so good!

My two pair of Mulls are from Upscale......Platinum Cryo'd.
https://www.upscaleaudio.com/collections/vacuum-tubes/products/mullard-e188cc-73...

The French OEM'd from Mullard.....are here:
http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/6922-E88CC-Tube-Types/Mullard-E188CC-7308

....couple others out there have them too.

....and yes, spot on description of the Ediswans....they will always find their way back in my ZMA. However, the little the Mulls give up in the bass....they all so make up for it in the midrange thru treble. + the hit I get out of them, from my ARC Line Stage......is so good...... . I also fly them solo as a pair in my ZMA inputs....ZDSD running them direct.
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« Last Edit: 12/06/17 at 14:04:02 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #198 - 12/08/17 at 06:19:50
 
Has anyone partaken in some serious/dedicated EL34 tube rolling in the ZMA?  Lots of talk about KT66's and KT77's.  Curious as to anyone's experience with various EL34's.  
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« Last Edit: 12/08/17 at 17:16:47 by Jeff of Arabica »  

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Re: Anyone Tube Roll with the ZMA yet?
Reply #199 - 12/08/17 at 16:25:56
 
Jeff,

I can't give you pages of prose about tube subtleties but for the last several years I've been using various quads of coin based 6PS3-E tubes in my ZMA  I also have a quad of Tug-Sol EL34s that I've used.  I have Tug-Sol and Gold Lion KT66s too but everytime I put them in I end up taking them out after a couple days.  While the EL34s are similar to the 6PS3-Es (and take advantage of the Hazen Grid mod) I always go back to the 6PS3-E.  To me they just have a "sweeter" sound.  Plus, they are very affordable.  Try a quad:  [urlhttp://www.cryoset.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=22_80&osCsid=16425415cc2f68a993098e61e59a93bd][/url]   Smiley
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