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Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments? (Read 58775 times)
stone_of_tone
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Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
08/22/14 at 17:45:10
 
I know we have the Decware blog. However, I am wondering if their are any other developments Steve would care to share or give us a hint of?
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stone_of_tone
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #1 - 08/27/14 at 17:31:50
 
I know what I would like next from Steve/Decware.
Larry's Wish List.

Tung-Sol KT150 dual mono/single chassis design ....RUN in TRIODE at 16 to 20 watts/channel (single tube per channel).

Class A ~ no negative feedback
Steve's custom Jupiter Caps...an Topology
6N23, 6N1P or 6922 pre tube
0A3 Tube Regulation with Power Supply Topology of ZMA...with Rectification as done in the ZMA too. ...no Chokes, if possible.

It would fit well into his line of Amps. Plus, like each one of his Amplifiers...it would be special...tackling the 16 to 20 watt/ch in Triode range.
It would express the dynamics of the KT150 thru 16+ watts of Triode operation, into Speakers I like of 91db.

I would buy it!


The KT150 can be used in single-ended, ultralinear and triode
designs. I want it in Triode!

....and done in a way that I know, Steve could only do it!

Of course, LR would get #0000, and I would get #0001  ::) ...hehehe.

So why this Amp? I love my CKC, SE84CS, CSP3 & ZMA. So, why not I say?!  Different flavors man....different flavors. I've come to favor my CSP3/ZMA combo. Maybe I would favor this new creation.

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« Last Edit: 08/27/14 at 19:27:49 by stone_of_tone »  

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stone_of_tone
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #2 - 08/27/14 at 19:11:58
 
Maybe this has been posted elsewhere on the Forum an I missed it. However, I'll post it here as well for more coverage.

http://jupitercondenser.com/

Steve' on it.  Cool.

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #3 - 08/27/14 at 19:27:37
 

Stone, that KT150 thing...seriously, sometimes you and I are so much on the same wavelength!

Also, that Jupiter thing...nice! Dr Z and Bogner and Steve all on the same page! I love Dr Z's stuff, he really knows how to make a chimey guitar amp that cuts through the mix without biting. Great stuff!

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stone_of_tone
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #4 - 08/27/14 at 19:32:42
 
Cool LR.

Yeah, I just was thinking about something on those Caps. I go to the page an yeah, there is Steve. How cool.

Do you think we can get Steve to build us two of them?!    8-)

Ask politely maybe. I'm not above begging.  :D
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« Last Edit: 08/27/14 at 19:35:15 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #5 - 08/27/14 at 19:48:47
 

If Steve was any other builder, they'd just churn them out if there was profit to be made. But Steve wouldn't even start it, let alone sell it, unless he could voice it appropriately. And that's where I believe Steve spends the majority of his time on a build, is voicing it.

Being able to do something, doesn't mean you should. Smiley


I've not heard any KT150 amp yet...well, maybe I did at Axpona, but I wouldn't be able to tell if I did or not. I have no idea what the character of a KT150 is, and if it would be suitable for a Super-Rachel type build. I think it's such a good idea, that if I knew enough about amp building, I'd seriously try to build it myself...but I'm more of a paint by numbers guy. I could clone an amp, but not design one.  :)
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stone_of_tone
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #6 - 08/27/14 at 20:31:44
 
Good question LR, is the KT150 suitable for a Super Rachel type build? If it is....I sure would like to hear Steve's voicing of it. I speculate their is some nice dynamics an musical detail to exploit out of this Tube in SE only of course. Now, whether it has all that lit from within triode goodness of SV83 Svetlana's....with more headroom is also a good question?

Or, can it land somewhere between my beloved SV83 Svetlana tube an the Rachel's EL34 run in Triode or better (with awesome headroom afforded by the 16 - 20 watts in triode)? Also, with that beautiful compression to clipping (in triode) you can't hear...until you really go there with to much volume! With this power of 16 to 20 watts in triode...you should maintain the glory of triode musicality/listening while getting loud with it...especially with 91db efficient Speakers like I prefer (with no real crazy compression of dynamics).
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« Last Edit: 08/27/14 at 21:05:58 by stone_of_tone »  

Sony as Transport
Illuminati D-60
Audio Alchemy DTI-Pro
Audio Magic Mystic Reference I2S
Audio Alchemy DDE 3.0
Kimber Select 1030
Zen Select #76
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Polk Audio LS-90
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stone_of_tone
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #7 - 08/27/14 at 21:44:02
 
I decided to sell my Gallo 3.1 Speakers. Even though they are crossed over at 500hrtz...they are not efficient enough for the jump factor dynamics I like an the scale I prefer an need. They are better suited for Solid State.

I love my Classic sounding an dynamic Polk SDA1 Speakers. I use them in Stereo....so one tweeter an driver below that tweeter, are not used on each Speaker.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Polk+SDA1&id=E3E676694FE118C17C9A3742E036994...

They are just under 90 pounds each on provided base stands. They have the sound of monitors but with full range sound (of course). I've had four pair of Speakers in this past year, including Zu's. The SDA1's win.
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« Last Edit: 08/27/14 at 21:47:53 by stone_of_tone »  

Sony as Transport
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Audio Alchemy DDE 3.0
Kimber Select 1030
Zen Select #76
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beowulf
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #8 - 08/27/14 at 22:23:42
 
Any Decware dual mono (or mono blocks) single ended triode @ 16 watts would be a dream amp for me.  My speakers at 95dB are efficient enough for the 2 watts Super Zen and the 6 watt Taboo (with a preamp) probably 95% of the time, however there are times that I just want to have a little more headroom when watching movies.  Those extra watts would come in handy as I really want to go to the Omega Alnico drivers which is going to drop my efficiency to 93dB.

While we're at it ... here is my dream Decware Preamp with the following:

1. 4 inputs (with the option for 2 balanced).
2. 4 Outputs (with the option of 2 balanced).
3. Remote for volume and input switching.
4. Volume and Input knobs on the front of the chassis.

Make these optional (a) simple phono stage, and (b) headphone amp (since Steve already has 2 great headphone amps I just don't see the need for another one as a standard feature.)

Put it into a standard audio/video width chassis, but keep it simple with a type writer finish (the same as the other amps) and perhaps an optional wooden case that it could be slid into to match the other Decware components (sort of like how the old mac preamps and tuners have the wooden cases).

Sort of like this:


This is actually my Decware dream system (Preamp with the options above and SET @ 16 watts) and I have always been thinking of this in Steve's lineup.

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« Last Edit: 08/28/14 at 02:53:06 by beowulf »  
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #9 - 08/28/14 at 01:58:13
 
IMHO, the ZMA sounds better than the SET and has more power.  If I could have a more powerful ZMA without losing any transparency, etc...I am game (e.g. 100 watts RMS....ZMA already does 100 watt peaks).  I always feel like I want more power.  Is it a disease?

Stone said...I decided to sell my Gallo 3.1 Speakers.

Stone...did you return the Sonus Faber speakers too?  If so, what's left in the stable?  Are the Polk's still your favorite with the ZMA and CKC?

I have been throughly enjoying the ZMA with my 944's.  There is something special about this combination, for me, in my room.  I am actually hesitant to change anything at the moment because it's sounding so good.

That said, the below would be on my short list to evaluate with the ZMA:

Acoustic Zen Adagios:  The Crescendos sounded amazing at Axpona, and in a crappy room.  The Adagios are the smaller brother, and after speaking with Robert, will sound similar to the Crescendos and furthermore would be the recommended option for a smaller room.   Interestingly, the configuration is very similar to the 944's (MTM, ribbon tweeter, transmission line), but with underhung drivers, a crossover, and slightly less efficiency.  The slightly lower efficiency does hold me back a little because I like the headroom 94 dB provides for normal listening, and I like to crank it every once in a while.  The tone/timbre of these speakers was spot on, and they are known for being tube friendly (low reactance?).  

Zu Audio Druids or Soul Supreme:  The Druids sounded very dynamic, had great clarity and tone (and were being driven by a Peachtree Integrated, which is obviously no ZMA).   The latest nano tech drivers and Radian tweeter seem to be something special.  I would argue nothing like the Unions(?) you had in for a demo.  If these speakers play well with the ZMA, one would get the added benefit of 101dB efficiency, which for me would be even better than 94dB.  Actually, I know the ZMA plays well with speakers w/o crossovers b/c my 944's are crossover less, aside from the capacitor on the ribbon tweeter.  101dB is really, really tempting.

Decware Monoliths:  Weren't these the fan favorites at Decfest with the ZMA...and Steve's favorite too?  Enough said.  94dB.

OK...so after writing all of that from a speaker standpoint (and trying to stay on point with this thread), I would like 101dB speakers from Decware...no crossover on midrange driver, underhung drivers, ribbon or Radian tweeter for highs/air, transmission line or maybe an active sub in each speaker for bass down to 15 Hz.
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« Last Edit: 08/28/14 at 11:31:19 by Dave1210 »  
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Brian
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #10 - 08/28/14 at 06:46:00
 
If this is a thread for suggesting what we might like in the way of a next power amp, I think I might like single end pentode.  But instead of the Taboo Amp built on EL84 - Sv83, base it on one of the Kinkless Tetrodes; probably KT-77, but maybe KT-66 or 88, whichever sounds most like music when run in the SEP mode.  Use the Mystery amp ripple filter, but perhaps instead of a single 2200 micro farad cap, a battery of four 500s could parallel to minimise their resistances.  I don't know what the drive tube ought to be; something to exploit the lively exaggerated dynamics of single end pentode operation to help make the music come alive.  
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stone_of_tone
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #11 - 08/28/14 at 15:16:58
 
Beowulf, yes, Steve making a single ended triode @ 16 watts/ch would be added to my Decware Stable in a heartbeat.

Dave, I did return the Sonus Faber's. I agree too, I can an do, live happily with my ZMA an it equals my SETS (CKC & SE84CS) with more power. But, like I said above...I would like to see where Steve could take a tube like the 120 or 150 in SET. It could be something really special coming from him.

My Fav Speakers are Polk SDA1 (in Stereo) with my Listening Room Rig. Very musical, deep, extended, powerful, clean & detailed an textured. Yet, also very nuanced at lower volumes too. I am content going into the fall an winter enjoying my three Systems... .

Listening Room:
Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home brew
Sony as Transport
Illuminati D-60 (.5 meter)
Chord Chordette QuteHD DAC
Kimber Select KS1030 IC RCA (.75 meter)
Decware CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps
Kimber Select KS1030 IC RCA (.5 meter)
Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
Kimber Select KS3035 Speaker Cable
Vintage Polk SDA1 Speakers (in Stereo)
XLO Pro Power Cords to CSP3 & ZMA
All four units plugged into Adcom AC-Enhancer 515

Living Room System:
Sony XBR 55" 850B 4K TV (Passive 3D)
Panasonic Blu-Ray
Kimber Hero IC out of Blu-Ray
Pro-Ject Debut Carbon III w/Pro-ject Phono Box II
Audioquest Diamondback IC out of Phono Box
Dish Network DVR (if I can't be in the Listening Room...I'm playing Records or Serius Sat Radio via Dish is playing)
Kimber KCAG IC out of DVR
Rotel 1062 Preamplifier
Pangea AC-9SE Power Cord to Rotel 1062 Pre (nice P Cord for the Rotel)
Kimber Timbre IC out of Preamp to...
Emotiva XPA-2
Kimber PK10 Palladian Power Cord to XPA-2 (takes this 300 watt/ch beast of an Amp to a whole other positive level/or at least the first usable watts...I found this P Cord used for 65% off)!
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/cables/messages/11/115546.html
Kimber 8TC Speaker Cables to...
Vintage Polk SRS SDA 1.2 (using Stereo Dimensional Array=SDA)
HSU MID-BASS 12" with Bash Amp (behind Couch)

Sony as a CD Transport to Anedio D2 DAC/w/Remote Volume...directly run to XPA-2....when the Polk 1.2's need to be ROCKED!
http://www.polkaudio.com/products/sdasrs12tl
....which reminds me: I need to get XLR's to run out of the Anedio D2 to the XLR inputs of my XPA-2!

Bedroom System:
Pioneer as Transport
Illuminati D-60 Digital
Audio Alchemy DTI-Pro 32 (20 bit Dither)
Prophecy Audio Cryo Silver i2s
Audio Alchemy 3.0 Dac with Remote Wand
Kimber Silver Streak IC RCA
Decware SE84CS or Super Zen CKC
Kimber Select KS3033 Speaker Cable
Vintage Polk LS90 Speakers

Other than wanting a 16 watt SET from Steve, I'm a very happy camper.

Plus, always remember, Solid State is just to be tolerated for convenience. So, thus the reason why I won't spend more on SS/Emo an Rotel will do.....Decware does ruin you!
TUBES RULE (via Decware) ....for Music Listening Bliss... .





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« Last Edit: 08/28/14 at 23:09:32 by stone_of_tone »  

Sony as Transport
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Audio Alchemy DDE 3.0
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Lonely Raven
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #12 - 08/28/14 at 15:33:43
 

Quote:
Other than wanting a 16 watt SET from Steve, I'm a very happy camper.


Now that you've brought it up, I think we all want a 16 watt SET from Steve. LOL
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Lon
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #13 - 08/28/14 at 22:37:01
 
Lonely Raven wrote on 08/28/14 at 15:33:43:
Now that you've brought it up, I think we all want a 16 watt SET from Steve. LOL

Nah, not me. I love the Torii Mk III, it's perfect for my needs.
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stone_of_tone
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #14 - 08/28/14 at 23:14:37
 
A few are out there...spinning them out of China. Hey, but checked out in the UK before offing to the Distributor? Steve would destroy them with his voicing and quality of build.  I want one from Decware.
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Audio Alchemy DDE 3.0
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stone_of_tone
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #15 - 09/01/14 at 16:11:01
 
Cool, in the Decfest 2014 Thread, Steve mentions he is working on a new Preamp an Single Ended Triode. Awesome! Not available at the Fest, but coming in 2015. ....count me in.
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Lon
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #16 - 09/01/14 at 16:13:51
 
Maybe beowulf will get the preamp he wants them to offer! Smiley
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HR-1,ZP3,ZTPRE,Torii MkIII,ZBIT,ZROCK2,Taboo MkIV;PS Audio:Soloist SE,DMP+DSD,P10,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs,Mapleshade:Dbl Helix+,SamsonV2+V3;CambrAudi CXU;Rega RP3,TTPSU,Groovetracer upgrades,Exact2;VooDoo Cremona +Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner,Oppo PM-1,Audeze LCD-2
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stone_of_tone
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #17 - 09/01/14 at 16:14:59
 
...that is what I'm thinking too.
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Audio Alchemy DDE 3.0
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #18 - 09/01/14 at 21:53:56
 
EL156 is an interesting tube.  It is a true pentode, so it is like having a 50W EL34.  The discontinued Telefunken originals were 10 pin socket, but the Chinese modern production are octal.  
For comparison to the 50W plate dissipation, KT88 has 35W.  I think EL34 is 25W.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #19 - 09/01/14 at 23:56:17
 
@ Lon and Stone - It's been on my wish list for at least 4 years since I've first heard about Decware.  I think it's the only "real" hole in Steve's lineup ... yes there are other things that would be cool such as that 15 watt SET we've been talking about that could fit in pricewise between the Rachel and Torii MKIV, but I think that Preamp would be kickass!  

I can imagine a balanced Pre into a balanced, ZMA, SE84CKCS or 15 watt SET! Cool
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #20 - 09/02/14 at 00:51:56
 
Well, we'll see.

Or as one of my favorite artists, Fats Waller, would say "One never knows, do one?"

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« Last Edit: 09/02/14 at 09:31:21 by Lon »  

HR-1,ZP3,ZTPRE,Torii MkIII,ZBIT,ZROCK2,Taboo MkIV;PS Audio:Soloist SE,DMP+DSD,P10,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs,Mapleshade:Dbl Helix+,SamsonV2+V3;CambrAudi CXU;Rega RP3,TTPSU,Groovetracer upgrades,Exact2;VooDoo Cremona +Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner,Oppo PM-1,Audeze LCD-2
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stone_of_tone
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #21 - 09/02/14 at 14:17:18
 
Yeah Beowulf an Lon, I think I want the potential new Pre for my 2.1.1 channel TV, Phono an DVD/Blu-ray listening an viewing...via remote volume too.

Anyway, theCableCo is having free shipping for their loaner cable trials in the month of September. I have my new pair of Kimber KS1030 IC's .75 meter out for delivery today! This will complete my analog domain circuit of 1030 from QuteHD DAC to CSP3, then .5 meter of 1030 to ZMA, to KS3035 Speaker Cable. My bliss in the Listening Room! ....just something about Kimber's best IC solid core Silver that gets things so right with their 3035 Speaker Cable.

...an so good to audition/loan-in your System first....
http://www.thecableco.com/newsletter-detail.aspx?iid=5903
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Sony as Transport
Illuminati D-60
Audio Alchemy DTI-Pro
Audio Magic Mystic Reference I2S
Audio Alchemy DDE 3.0
Kimber Select 1030
Zen Select #76
Kimber Select 3033
Polk Audio LS-90
Tri-config/TipToes & Vibropods underneath Speakers
360 degree Rm Treats
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #22 - 09/02/14 at 15:04:40
 
The Cable Company is a good company. I've not really been bowled over by the Kimber I've heard, at least not for the price, but I have completed my system with VooDoo Cable Ultralinear and Evolution interconnects that I just love, most from the Cable Company or their sister company, UsedCables.com. Good people!
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HR-1,ZP3,ZTPRE,Torii MkIII,ZBIT,ZROCK2,Taboo MkIV;PS Audio:Soloist SE,DMP+DSD,P10,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs,Mapleshade:Dbl Helix+,SamsonV2+V3;CambrAudi CXU;Rega RP3,TTPSU,Groovetracer upgrades,Exact2;VooDoo Cremona +Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner,Oppo PM-1,Audeze LCD-2
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #23 - 09/02/14 at 21:57:29
 
I mostly hear good things about the Cable Co. (thus the reason I tried them) but I just did not have a good experience with them.  Initially I did when I first bought, but when I expressed an interest in exchanging a power cord for another cord, I never heard back from them.  I tried multiple times.

I ended up buying used PS Audio instead.
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i7 Mac Mini with LPSU/SSD running Audirvana 2, Uptone Audio Regen on LPSU, Chord QuteHD with LPSU, DIY Belden ICs, Torii MKIII, SE34I.32, PS Audio P5 Power Supply, PS Audio Power Cords, Vintage Western Electric 16g Speaker wires, DIY Speakers
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #24 - 09/02/14 at 22:09:26
 
Sorry, and surprised to hear that as they have always been very responsive with me.

But hey, you ended up with a great cord!
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #25 - 09/03/14 at 01:46:49
 
I'm waiting on Cable Co. to get back to me on a USB and XLR cable recommendations. We'll see what happens.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #26 - 09/13/14 at 02:57:31
 
I look forward to the new SET from Steve.

I can picture how glorius sounding one of those units would be with a pair of new production Takatsuki 300Bs in it.
Online reviews have placed it on par or better than the famous Western Electric 300Bs.

Cheers!
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #27 - 09/14/14 at 15:23:00
 
At $800 a piece for Takatsuki's?
Nope, I'll stick with Steve's Pentode's or Tetrode's....RUN in Triode.

KT150:
"The manufacturers who are developing amplifiers to use this tube have reported that the Tung-Sol KT150 sounds great in all power amplifier configurations including single-ended, triode connected and ultra-linear".

I want a 16 to 20 watt per channel SET from Steve using KT66, KT88, Tung-Sol KT120 and/or Tung-Sol KT150.


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« Last Edit: 09/14/14 at 15:35:09 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #28 - 09/15/14 at 12:18:00
 
LR...did you ever hear back from The Cable Co?
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #29 - 09/15/14 at 15:57:57
 

No, and I meant to call them on Friday and talk to them about some cables...but other stuff came up that took my limited funds away. So I've put it on hold a bit.

I also want to buy a fuse to see if the P10 or ZMA has any improvement with a good fuse.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #30 - 09/16/14 at 03:01:58
 
You got to admit, getting someone to pay $90 for something that you're supposed to blow up is pretty impressive. For the same money as a couple of audiophile fuses, you could get a fire extinguisher and hardwire your amp without a fuse. It's a pretty impressive difference compared to a stock fuse, I can tell ya, so it stands to reason if someone figured out a way to get somewhere in the middle of the two, it would be a success.  I wonder if the quantum chips or the blowmeum is the real secret?  

Smiley



 
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #31 - 09/16/14 at 03:03:37
 
As far as the single ended amp, I can tell you it will be with a superior tube to the 300B.  Superior because it's built better, sounds better, lasts longer, and costs a fraction as much.  The 6C33C is the tube that I am working with for the new single ended amp. I have decided on this tube after listening to it for three years behind the scenes.  It is my current favorite.

Here's a picture of the 6C33C in it's intended application:



Shown here as the guidance tube in a Russian Nuclear Intercontinental ballistic missile.  Also used in the Mig fighter jets as a guidance tube.

Just think... after world war III has launched the first magnet pulse bombs and the entire power grid collapses you'll be able to hook 10 car batteries up to your Decware and play it for over a year off the grid!

Not only that, but it will heat your room the entire time you use it, so nuclear winter will even be more tolerable than ever!

All good engineers work in worse case scenarios, it's part of good design.   Smiley
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #32 - 09/16/14 at 03:12:55
 
Here is what the 6C33 tubes look like in a more audiophile light...



I'm not sure how long they last yet... still trying to wear out my first set.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #33 - 09/16/14 at 03:30:51
 
You don't even have to plug 6C33 tubes in and they glow!  That's one impressive tube.  Can't wait to hear it.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #34 - 09/16/14 at 03:57:11
 
That is cool. I can see the conversation now, wow nice tube amp, what is that tube? Oh nothing special just one that is used in a Russian Nuclear Intercontinental ballistic missile.  :D
Can't wait to see this amp and hear it.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #35 - 09/16/14 at 03:57:24
 

Steve, I'd like to get in line for the new amp *now*!

I friggen LOVE those tubes! Especially after hearing what they can do in the OTL amp.

I agree with you on fuses...but so many people swear by them, it makes me curious...and a curious Eric likes to experiment and listen.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #36 - 09/16/14 at 04:14:15
 
Damnit, I still can't embed videos.

http://youtu.be/wS7dMd74YHI


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« Last Edit: 09/16/14 at 04:15:07 by Lonely Raven »  
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #37 - 09/16/14 at 04:54:35
 
LR, now wait a damn minute!

You got the #0000 last time. I want it this time....an you take the #0001!  Heheehehe  ;D.

Steve, sweet Tube. I can't wait to hear your design an voicing of it.

As Steve mentioned...missile's an aircraft. I got a kick out of the copy at The Tube Store about the Tube.
"So your MiG fighter jet's radar scope just isn't picking up bogeys like it used to? Time to re-tube the 6C33! This Russian Military 6C33C-B also works great in home stereos".
http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/Big-Power-Tubes/6C33C-B
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« Last Edit: 09/16/14 at 05:00:35 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #38 - 09/16/14 at 07:19:40
 
With those Russian tubes in place, just for laughs, I can picture myself using the same American Bendix 6106 rectifier as used in American Nike ICBMs.

Such an explosive tube combo would be quite a good conversation starter at parties! Wink
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #39 - 09/16/14 at 08:14:13
 
Steve Deckert wrote on 09/16/14 at 03:03:37:
As far as the single ended amp, I can tell you it will be with a superior tube to the 300B.  Superior because it's built better, sounds better, lasts longer, and costs a fraction as much.  The 6C33C is the tube that I am working with for the new single ended amp. I have decided on this tube after listening to it for three years behind the scenes.  It is my current favorite.


Hi Steve, sounds freakin' awesome!  Is it too early to tell how many watts and where do you see this fitting into your price structure?  I was hoping somewhere between the cost of a Zen Select and Torii MKIV???
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #40 - 09/16/14 at 13:54:06
 

I've seen single ended amps using this tube say between 8watts and 20 watts. I'm not sure why the wide variable - I never really looked into them, and I've not built any amps in many years. I really should find a tutor to teach me some basic amp building and set me loose with my own ideas.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #41 - 09/16/14 at 13:57:20
 
After seeing Steve's post about the new...to me...Russian tube, I did a search and found people already using it in SETs.  One was in Mono Block form with 20 watts per channel...others were rated at 18 wpc.  Seems that this would be competing with the Torri MK IV at about 25 wpc.  It'd be interesting to hear Steve speak to how they compare sonically and otherwise with the Torii and the current Decware version SETs.  Mark.

http://www.tubeguru.eu/poweramps/6c33c-se-mono/  this one's a beauty!

PS...I now see LR gave you the youtube clip with this builders work. The music's nice too.
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« Last Edit: 09/16/14 at 14:05:46 by mark58 »  

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #42 - 09/16/14 at 14:24:38
 

Yeah, his parts and build quality look like they are built for durability - I wonder how much goes into voicing them.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #43 - 09/16/14 at 16:19:21
 
Great Tube mark58. As witnessed by the fact that BAT http://balanced.com/products
has been using it for years....PP run.  

I considered buying the VK-55SE when considering the ZMA. I would have started off running it with my Balanced Outputs from my Anedio D2. I made the right choice buying the CSP3w/Jupiter Caps an the ZMA.

I look forward to Steve's further words an development in due time. SET from him with 6C33C is going to be Special.
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« Last Edit: 09/16/14 at 16:39:26 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #44 - 09/16/14 at 16:29:45
 
My official opinion. MEH. Smiley I love my Torii Mk IIIs, I feel as if I'm good for life, or at least another decade or more. Just astonishingly great sounding and flexible amps. Bass controls! All those tubes to roll! Heaven!

If I were to move to something else I think it woud be the DNA horns with built in amps as my second system hearbeat. But I'm far from close to considering something like that.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #45 - 09/16/14 at 16:30:28
 
http://balanced.com/p-vk-55se

Wow, what a beast! I don't see any pricing on the page - is it comparable to a ZMA? Or a ZMA plus CSP3?

I'm biased against circuit boards, but it looks like a solid machine.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #46 - 09/16/14 at 16:37:21
 
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #47 - 09/16/14 at 16:58:32
 
Ditto, I'm not a circuit board fan either. Or, auto-bias via circuit board fan.

I had a PrimaLuna Dialogue 5 in-house.

"You Senator (PrimaLuna), are NO John F. Kennedy (ZMA)".  

Granted BAT probably does it better. But, the Transparency/Musicality of the CSP3 an ZMA combo.......please..... .
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« Last Edit: 09/16/14 at 17:04:09 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #48 - 09/16/14 at 17:17:16
 
Quote:
Granted BAT probably does it better. But, the Transparency/Musicality of the CSP3 an ZMA combo.......please..... .


Yeah, that's why I've really not looked at anything else lately. I just love to see what other shops are doing for ideas...or at least to understand their design concepts. Why they chose the path they did - or are they just cribbing off others work, etc.
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« Last Edit: 09/16/14 at 17:17:54 by Lonely Raven »  
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #49 - 09/16/14 at 23:02:22
 
LR,  here's the Stereophile review for the BAT Amp...a Monster at 55wpc. He likes it! Mark.

http://www.stereophile.com/tubepoweramps/balanced_audio_technology_vk-55se_power...

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #50 - 09/25/14 at 23:50:59
 
Woohoo!  The production sample of the long awaited magic black box #001 has just been completed.  
+/- 3dB from 1/4hz ~ 100kHz. This is our balanced XLR to single-ended RCA transformer with adjustable output level.   Features a fully decoupled ground path that turns the case into a shield from your source and the volume control gets all it's grounds from the connected component. This makes the volume control work as a gain control for any amplifier that does not have one. For amplifiers that do have gain controls, this becomes a variable output used to adjust dynamics and transparency on the fly. No ground loops can occur between connected components.

Zen Balanced Input Transformer.  AKA  ZBIT.





After the fest I'll get it up on the site.  

Steve Cool
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Reply #51 - 09/26/14 at 01:24:48
 
Great news!
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DECFEST 2014 PICS
Reply #52 - 10/28/14 at 03:37:29
 
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Reply #53 - 10/28/14 at 03:49:24
 
If anyone else took pics that they would like to add to these galleries, please send them our way!

-Steve
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Reply #54 - 10/28/14 at 14:41:55
 
Thanks for posting these pics, Steve.  Sorry I missed it.
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Re: DECFEST 2014 PICS
Reply #55 - 10/28/14 at 17:53:44
 
Good fest this year.  Sorry I couldn't stay longer.

The back of my head and my boombox made the picture gallery!
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Re: DECFEST 2014 PICS
Reply #56 - 10/28/14 at 19:01:33
 

I managed to dodge all but one photo - and Brianne is nowhere to be seen! I think we did well this year.  :)

Lots of interesting stuff at Steve's shop; I'm glad someone took the time to be curious and photograph so much stuff.

I may have some photos - but I left the Nikon in the car, so all mine would be camera phone photos, mostly to help me remember stuff.
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Reply #57 - 10/28/14 at 23:05:22
 
Looks like I missed all the fun on Friday.  NEXT YEAR FOR SURE!!!

Dan
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Re: DECFEST 2014 PICS
Reply #58 - 10/29/14 at 00:23:56
 
So what's the deal with the OTL?  Was it a big enough hit for people to place many orders or can we start focusing on a more traditional and less expensive 10-15 watt SET?

aka ... one that I can actually afford Grin
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« Last Edit: 10/29/14 at 00:24:27 by beowulf »  
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Reply #59 - 10/29/14 at 00:53:18
 
I typed up this extended review of the OTL and somehow lost it on my twitchy laptop and I am too angry to re-type it.

In summary:

So is it the real deal? - yes.  Richer sound than I have ever heard. So rich in fact that I found myself unsure if I would listen to it every day.

Will it be affordable?  - Not likely.

Would I buy one?  Not in the foreseeable future.  Other financial priorities right now.

Did enough people feel that it was good enough to commit to buy?  I am not sure but it was a hit.

Do I hope Steve produces it and Raven buys it so I can listen to it occasionally?  Oh yeah Wink
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #60 - 10/29/14 at 01:33:34
 
I've decided after much thought that I will not manufacture the OTL amp due to it's impracticality and the 6C33C tubes themselves.  Since there is no real way to test these unique tubes without making a custom tube tester they are not available in matched quads, which is what you ideally want in the OTL.  Customers would never be able to find them, and I would have to buy hundreds just to get 10 matched quads if I'm lucky.  

In addition, the tubes have to be pre-baked for 24 hours before being fired for the first time. This is done by wiring both the plate and grid to the heater and running only the heaters with no high voltage present. Again, not going to happen in the real world unless customers buy tubes only from us.

Tube life is another issue. The tubes must be at the correct temperature before being turned up past 1/2 power. This takes around 45 minutes, but it my OTL, which is fan cooled, it takes 2.5 hours. Again, not going to happen in the real world.

And then there is cost, and frankly as good as it is, when compared against the ZMA (Zen Mystery Amp) there are many who would prefer the later.

WHAT WE NEED is a design that uses only 1 6C33C tube and forgiving enough that it doesn't give a shit what mood the tube is in. A pair of monos so that the tubes don't have to match, which they never will, and gain controls so you can perfectly match the volume from each amp. Something that needs no fan, so you guessed it, I am prototyping a single ended triode mono block with a single 6C33C and we'll see what happens. Be an all winter experiment I'm sure. The tube is just too cool to ignore. Word is wired with only one cathode vs. the two that is has, the sonics destroy a WE300B which is saying quite a lot.  We'll find out.

Steve

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #61 - 10/29/14 at 01:34:30
 
Btw am I the only one who thought Steve's room sounded the best it ever has this year?

Oh and my otl comments were based on the otl into the el caminos.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #62 - 10/29/14 at 01:53:02
 
Sounds like a really good idea Steve. Looking forward to the story!
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #63 - 10/29/14 at 06:04:33
 
Quote:
WHAT WE NEED is a design that uses only 1 6C33C tube and forgiving enough that it doesn't give a shit what mood the tube is in. A pair of monos so that the tubes don't have to match, which they never will, and gain controls so you can perfectly match the volume from each amp. Something that needs no fan, so you guessed it, I am prototyping a single ended triode mono block with a single 6C33C and we'll see what happens. Be an all winter experiment I'm sure. The tube is just too cool to ignore. Word is wired with only one cathode vs. the two that is has, the sonics destroy a WE300B which is saying quite a lot.  We'll find out.


I had a suspicion this is what would happen - the big amp is just too quirky for all but the most dedicated listeners. And having to support something like that sounds like you'd have to hire an extra person just for tube processing!

Too bad, because that amp really is something. But I'm perfectly fine with a pair of mono 6C33C amps - assuming I could afford them. I'd love to come by and be another set of ears when you get something built, Steve. I promise I wont (intentionally) blow them up!   Embarrassed
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #64 - 10/29/14 at 06:31:06
 
Steve Deckert wrote on 10/29/14 at 01:33:34:
I've decided after much thought that I will not manufacture the OTL amp due to it's impracticality and the 6C33C tubes themselves.  Since there is no real way to test these unique tubes without making a custom tube tester they are not available in matched quads, which is what you ideally want in the OTL.  Customers would never be able to find them, and I would have to buy hundreds just to get 10 matched quads if I'm lucky.  

In addition, the tubes have to be pre-baked for 24 hours before being fired for the first time. This is done by wiring both the plate and grid to the heater and running only the heaters with no high voltage present. Again, not going to happen in the real world unless customers buy tubes only from us.

Tube life is another issue. The tubes must be at the correct temperature before being turned up past 1/2 power. This takes around 45 minutes, but it my OTL, which is fan cooled, it takes 2.5 hours. Again, not going to happen in the real world.

And then there is cost, and frankly as good as it is, when compared against the ZMA (Zen Mystery Amp) there are many who would prefer the later.

WHAT WE NEED is a design that uses only 1 6C33C tube and forgiving enough that it doesn't give a shit what mood the tube is in. A pair of monos so that the tubes don't have to match, which they never will, and gain controls so you can perfectly match the volume from each amp. Something that needs no fan, so you guessed it, I am prototyping a single ended triode mono block with a single 6C33C and we'll see what happens. Be an all winter experiment I'm sure. The tube is just too cool to ignore. Word is wired with only one cathode vs. the two that is has, the sonics destroy a WE300B which is saying quite a lot.  We'll find out.

Steve



Wow, Steve that sounds exciting!  I hope you keep a design journal/thread on the forums like you did with the ZMA as I loved reading about the ZMA coming into fruition.

Lonely Raven wrote on 10/29/14 at 06:04:33:
But I'm perfectly fine with a pair of mono 6C33C amps - assuming I could afford them.


Assuming I can afford them too I want 000 or 001 this time! Grin
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« Last Edit: 10/29/14 at 06:35:27 by beowulf »  
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #65 - 10/29/14 at 06:48:20
 
Amen, Beowulf, on a design thread for the new 6C33C monoblocks. I hope Steve is listening. I really enjoyed following the progress on the ZMA. A lot of it goes over my head, but it's interesting nonetheless, and whets my appetite for more delicious Decware gear.
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Re: DECFEST 2014 PICS
Reply #66 - 10/29/14 at 07:32:05
 
Palomino wrote on 10/29/14 at 00:53:18:
I typed up this extended review of the OTL and somehow lost it on my twitchy laptop and I am too angry to re-type it.

In summary:

So is it the real deal? - yes.  Richer sound than I have ever heard. So rich in fact that I found myself unsure if I would listen to it every day.

Will it be affordable?  - Not likely.

Would I buy one?  Not in the foreseeable future.  Other financial priorities right now.

Did enough people feel that it was good enough to commit to buy?  I am not sure but it was a hit.

Do I hope Steve produces it and Raven buys it so I can listen to it occasionally?  Oh yeah Wink


Thanks for the overview, I bet the first one you wrote was even better! Wink

It sounds like a great amp and I'd like to hear it one day, but it's not on my wish list though (not that I could afford it anyways), but it's already close to November and it was only this week that we are now comfortable enough to turn off our A/C and open our windows here in Chula Vista ... even this afternoon I had to remind myself how expensive our bill was last month to prevent myself from turning it back on. Grin
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #67 - 10/29/14 at 13:29:21
 
Cool Steve! I hope you post a thread like you did for the ZMA too. I look forward to hearing them sometime in 2015 (road trip). 20 wpc mono's?

Good opportunity Steve, to thank you once again for such great Amplifiers that make music. Thanks! The ZMA with CSP3; I could not foresee ever replacing. Making room to add the 6C33C Mono's though = yes.

Well, we "fall back", this weekend (time change). The warm glow of Decware Tubes...........gets me to the other side of April. Cheers, an happy designing this winter, Steve.

Listening Room:
Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew
Sony as Transport
Illuminati D-60 (.5 meter)
Chord Chordette QuteHD DAC ---~or~
Audio Alchemy front-end/Prophecy Silver Cryo i2s
Kimber Select KS1030 IC RCA (.75 meter)
Decware CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps
Kimber Select KS1030 IC RCA (.5 meter)
Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
Kimber Select KS3035 Speaker Cable
ACOUSTIC ZEN ADAGIO Speakers
XLO Pro Power Cords to CSP3 & ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant

SE84CS (w/Svetlana SV83's/Original NOS) & Super Zen CKC...when SE Pentodes run in Triode/Decware Style...needs to be in the System!

Decware SET 6C33C Mono-blocks........ Pending.
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« Last Edit: 10/29/14 at 13:51:32 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #68 - 10/29/14 at 14:13:59
 
Steve wrote:

I've decided after much thought that I will not manufacture the OTL amp due to it's impracticality and the 6C33C tubes themselves.  Since there is no real way to test these unique tubes without making a custom tube tester they are not available in matched quads, which is what you ideally want in the OTL.  Customers would never be able to find them, and I would have to buy hundreds just to get 10 matched quads if I'm lucky.  

In addition, the tubes have to be pre-baked for 24 hours before being fired for the first time. This is done by wiring both the plate and grid to the heater and running only the heaters with no high voltage present. Again, not going to happen in the real world unless customers buy tubes only from us.

Tube life is another issue. The tubes must be at the correct temperature before being turned up past 1/2 power. This takes around 45 minutes, but it my OTL, which is fan cooled, it takes 2.5 hours. Again, not going to happen in the real world.

And then there is cost, and frankly as good as it is, when compared against the ZMA (Zen Mystery Amp) there are many who would prefer the later.

WHAT WE NEED is a design that uses only 1 6C33C tube and forgiving enough that it doesn't give a shit what mood the tube is in. A pair of monos so that the tubes don't have to match, which they never will, and gain controls so you can perfectly match the volume from each amp. Something that needs no fan, so you guessed it, I am prototyping a single ended triode mono block with a single 6C33C and we'll see what happens. Be an all winter experiment I'm sure. The tube is just too cool to ignore. Word is wired with only one cathode vs. the two that is has, the sonics destroy a WE300B which is saying quite a lot.  We'll find out.


Wow, with those type of issues it's no wonder that you are not considering building a stereo amp!

I love the sound of my Torii Mk IIIs after years of tube rolling and isolation and cabling and. . . I'm not interested in any other amp, that's just the plain truth. I have what works for me, and I'm not trading in for a new model, trophy wife etc. -- not that kind of guy! Not chasing the perfect sound, just the right sound for my collection and I. But glad that others have the bug, and understand Steve's need to keep exploring possibilities for the line and unique products.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #69 - 11/02/14 at 01:02:36
 
Quote:
Wow, with those type of issues it's no wonder that you are not considering building a stereo amp!

I love the sound of my Torii Mk IIIs after years of tube rolling and isolation and cabling and. . . I'm not interested in any other amp, that's just the plain truth.


That is my goal and my wish for every amplifier that I sell.

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #70 - 11/02/14 at 14:35:58
 
Quote:
That is my goal and my wish for every amplifier that I sell.


What's this you say!? You mean you don't build audio components that break down/fail after 3-5 years, and costs so much to repair that buying a replacement is the only solution...so the consumer must *consume* moar, therefor increasing your profits!? That's madness!  ;D
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #71 - 11/02/14 at 16:28:22
 
Well, I am interested in other Amps.

Other than the fuse issue I had when I first got the ZMA an noise on the ground? Both issues were worth fixing myself, because the ZMA is the Amp to beat. I am having the Rogue 100 in. I will probably keep it as well.
http://www.rogueaudio.com/Products_100.htm

I like great Speakers too. I will report back in January about my Acoustic Zen Adagio's. My new P3 is burning in nicely. It is great for my front end components an CSP3. ZMA, has no need to be on it.

Peace an Cheers, Stone.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #72 - 11/02/14 at 16:35:24
 
Steve wrote:
That is my goal and my wish for every amplifier that I sell.


You hit that goal with me with the Mk III, especially the second one you built me, with the bass controls. The other amps I'd bought from you showed me the way to this one and it has the power the others didn't, just the right amount, and the most flexibility of all of them, which helps me to enjoy my collection.

I'm so glad I found the website in '96.
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« Last Edit: 11/02/14 at 16:36:07 by Lon »  

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #73 - 11/20/14 at 15:15:53
 
Well, with much deliberation... . I don't want Pass or Rogue or Audio Research. I want another Decware creation.

Do I need anything to replace my ZMA? Heck no-not ever an could live happily ever after. Would I sell any of my Amps? No. However, with the track record Steve has for going 4 for 4 for me (SE84CS, Super Zen CKC, Zen Mystery Amplifier an CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps); I have to sit down with the 6C33C SET Mono-blocks he has in the works, in my System in my Room.

Keep us posted Steve.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #74 - 11/20/14 at 15:50:41
 
Quote:
I have to sit down with the 6C33C SET Mono-blocks he has in the works, in my System in my Room


So does this mean I can get ahead of you in line for them?  :)

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #75 - 11/20/14 at 16:57:46
 
Of course it does LR!  To funny!  ;D

#0000 an #0001 again!
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #76 - 11/20/14 at 19:52:24
 

I'm really too broke for any new purchases. And if I did, it should be speakers and room treatment, not amps. I do have the ZMA after all.

That said, let's see what Steve comes up with!
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #77 - 11/21/14 at 14:33:54
 
I'm not in the market for a new amp really.  I am enamored with what I am hearing with Raven's Zen, but I'm not ready to buy yet.

Would I buy OTL monos?  Not likely.  At least not anytime soon.  

But I have to say it was great fun sitting in that room hearing that amp.  I've been to a few high end audio dealers and attended Axpona twice now and still, I haven't busted the kind of grin I did when I heard the OTL.

So if Steve builds it and I like it (pretty good odds), I'll support the Decware R&D engine by talking about it to anyone who will listen.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #78 - 11/21/14 at 15:32:50
 

Steve's already said he's *not* doing an OTL like what we listened to at this years Decfest - but he will try out another amp using that tube.

I'm hoping it's something along the Zen amp, but in the teens wattage, using the MIG Tube. I would seriously consider one. And I think it would be a great upper-end starter amp for those looking to get into tube amps if the price is right.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #79 - 11/21/14 at 17:01:52
 
Exactly LR. ....in the vein of the SE84ZSM Mono-blocks Steve made for awhile with Tube Regulation (0A3). As you stated, with watts/ch in the high teens.
http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1215205416

Steve wrote (Reply #60):
"The tube is just too cool to ignore (6C33C). Word is wired with only one cathode vs. the two that is has, the sonics destroy a WE300B which is saying quite a lot.  We'll find out".

I'm also thinking...since it's not the OTL...the price point is more inline of what I'm thinking too.... .
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« Last Edit: 11/21/14 at 17:48:24 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #80 - 11/21/14 at 22:14:50
 
stone_of_tone wrote on 11/21/14 at 17:01:52:
Exactly LR. ....in the vein of the SE84ZSM Mono-blocks Steve made for awhile with Tube Regulation (0A3). As you stated, with watts/ch in the high teens.
http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1215205416

Steve wrote (Reply #60):
"The tube is just too cool to ignore (6C33C). Word is wired with only one cathode vs. the two that is has, the sonics destroy a WE300B which is saying quite a lot.  We'll find out".

I'm also thinking...since it's not the OTL...the price point is more inline of what I'm thinking too.... .


Those are cool, I wonder why he doesn't make them or offer them on his website anymore. Huh
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #81 - 11/22/14 at 14:17:28
 
I know this might sound a little crazy, but in my room, I don't think I would go any lower in power (40 watt ZMA) with my 94 dB speakers.  In fact, I either want more power or higher efficiency.  The ZMA isn't going anywhere, so I think the next purchase for me will be speakers.  For a smaller room, I would definitely consider a SET with power in the teens.  

If these new Zu Omen Def's sound equal or better than the 944's, that might just be my ticket (to be clear, I don't think it's going to be easy to best the 944's b/c those speakers are fantastic, especially with the ZMA)  BTW the new Zu OD's can be upgraded with the Radian 850 tweeter that comes in the Druid and Definition speakers.  I think the upgrade is $1000.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #82 - 11/22/14 at 16:18:41
 
Quote:
If these new Zu Omen Def's sound equal or better than the 944's, that might just be my ticket (to be clear, I don't think it's going to be easy to best the 944's b/c those speakers are fantastic, especially with the ZMA)  BTW the new Zu OD's can be upgraded with the Radian 850 tweeter that comes in the Druid and Definition speakers.  I think the upgrade is $1000.


I'm with you on both parts actually. With the detail and smoothness I have, I kinda find myself cranking it up a bit. The Anthony Gallo Reference 3.1 I have next to my MG944 are great...different, but not better then the 944. Zu are on my short list to try out here. Last year about this time, there were all sorts of used Zu on AudiogoN and eBay, and now they seem very few and far between. I really want to run a pair through here.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #83 - 11/23/14 at 15:56:44
 
Dave, I understand you would not go any lower in power in your room.

Those of us here that Listen with Martin Logans, Monitor Audio, Polk SDA1, Janzen's an Acoustic Zen Adagio's (coming along nicely an opening up).......in smaller Rooms.....I can use 2 watts or 38 per channel. Especially, in a well treated room...but not overly damped like an Anechoic chamber.

I can appreciate the differences between my SE84CS, CKC an my ZMA with an without my CSP3. SET magic from Steve, I revere (as I revere an would not part with his ZMA designed Amp either). So, for me...the SET Mono-blocks he is working on...are on my radar. I do believe the Mono's could do what a LineMagnetic LM219IA can do, without the complexity an the total cost.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #84 - 11/23/14 at 18:50:08
 
Stone...as you stated, my needs are specific to my main room.  I would definitely consider the SET mono-blocks for a smaller room, or with more efficient speakers.

Glad to hear the Adagio's are breaking in nicely.  How many hours do you have on them now?  Have you tried driving them with anything other than the ZMA (aside from your SS rig for break-in)?
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #85 - 11/24/14 at 20:51:24
 
I have 150+ hours on them now. They had me worried. However, I've been told they need 300. Where they are now though, I'm not worried anymore. I still need to get them to 300 hours though, before bringing them back into my Listening Room.

So, where they are at right now...no more clinical sounding. More open an relaxed. This is with SS. They make you stop an take notice at any volume! However, still SS...but I hear the improvements.

I did hook them up briefly to my SE84CS. It drove them pretty darn well. But, they clearly need the ZMA with CSP3.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #86 - 11/26/14 at 17:51:11
 
Okay, I have been really laying into the Adagio's 24/7, the last couple of days/racking further hours up on them.

I am using (for burn in purposes for the Adagio's):
Pioneer DV-563A as my Transport
Illuminati D-60 Coax
Anedio D2 DAC
Kimber Silver Streak IC RCA
Emotiva UPA-1 Mono-blocks (200 watts per channel)
Kimber Select 3033 Speaker Cable
Acoustic Zen Adagio Speakers

Listening to Odd Order Harmonics with Negative Feedback is not my thing obviously for Two Channel Music Listening (thus, I own Decware for Even Order Harmonics and no Negative Feedback-via Steve's awesome Voicing an Topology).
However, I can discern, the Adagio's are opening up! I will wait awhile yet still, to grunt an carry them back to my Decware/Listening Room. However, I like what I'm hearing.

Importantly, I am impressed with what I'm hearing from these driver's an Tweeter's...it has to be the lowering of slight colorations/distortions that is helping even with this bedroom Solid State setup/it sounds good. Not great/but good.

My only reservation is: Do they lack the inner detail an midrange presence that my SDA1's have in Spades? Time will tell.

Good news is/the Crossovers can be Mod'ed! If I chose to do so... .
http://www.stereotimes.com/post/adagio-extreme-modification-by-response-audio

Excerpts:
"Bill Baker’s goal with the Adagio EXtreme modifications is to bring more of the Adagio's sonic potential to the surface and provide a new sense of voicing. He wanted greater resolution, more inner detail retrieval, enhanced dynamic extension, and more air up top and greater slam in the lower frequencies. In regard to voicing, he was after more liveliness and realism in the midrange without sacrificing the other aspects as mentioned previously".

"As I mentioned in my previous review of the stock Adagios, the ribbon tweeters already have a very flat impedance curve and overall the Adagios have a linear frequency response. The flat impedance curves means it is an exceptional speaker to mate with tube amplifiers and the modification according to Bill Baker didn’t change any of these characteristics".

I could avoid shipping an have my guys do it here at Midwest Speaker. Also, for half the price. Still not cheap...but done just as well.
Like I mentioned, these Driver's an Tweeter's with this design are exceptional...and are screaming: "Work with me to reach my full potential"!  


Listening Room:
Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew
Sony as Transport
Illuminati D-60 (.5 meter)
Chord Chordette QuteHD DAC ---~or~
Audio Alchemy front-end/Remote Volume Wand/Revelation Audio Prophecy Cryo-Silver i2s
Kimber Select KS1030 IC RCA (.75 meter)
Decware CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps
Kimber Select KS1030 IC RCA (.5 meter)
Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
Kimber Select KS3035 Speaker Cable
Polk SDA1 Speakers in Stereo (Acoustic Zen Adagio Speakers/burning in)
XLO Pro Power Cords to CSP3 & ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Front End an CSP3 Regenerated/116, 118 an 120v are used/Multiwave off...ZMA on HC Output)

Decware SE84CS (w/NOS Svetlana SV83's from 1980's-not the New Sensor knock-offs) & Decware Super Zen CKC...when SE Pentodes run in Triode/Decware Style...needs to be in the System!
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« Last Edit: 11/26/14 at 18:47:11 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #87 - 12/01/14 at 17:53:54
 
The Adagio's are staying. No mod needed. I have them in my bedroom office with my SE84CS = HEAVEN at 78db SPL peaks. I can roll back an lean back in my chair and wow! Yes, running them with 2 watts per channel. Probably less than that with the heat loss in the crossover. I seriously don't know what I would keep, if I could only keep one Decware Amplifier. Of course, the weight and headroom of the ZMA in my Listening Room is great. However, SET is SET man! Nothing however, has come close to the SET sound, other than Steve's Zen Mystery Amplifier IMO.

Okay, enough about that. Fortunately, I can have more than one Decware Amplifier. Lets get back to the OP (Decware Developments). I found the Almarro A318A and A318B recently. However, I will hold out for Steve's design. Fun however, to read/learn about this build in the Reviews an here at the site.
http://www.almarro.com/products.html
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« Last Edit: 12/01/14 at 22:14:29 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #88 - 01/02/15 at 17:11:42
 
Happy New Year

I'm excited for new Decware designs for 2015!

See replies: #3, 4, 5 an mine at #6 in the "Christmas" thread (here in the General Forum).

A big tranny on the Bench(?)  I'm thinking the 6C33C Mono's or Preamplifier with Remote(?) is happening (or both).

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #89 - 01/02/15 at 22:34:22
 
Yeah, Steve, any word on what's going on? Or do I need to swing by on Tuesday and ask in person?  :)

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #90 - 01/02/15 at 22:52:37
 
Steve is finally building a 300B amp!













Just kidding.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #91 - 01/03/15 at 00:31:42
 
A zen style amp using 6C33C tubes would be similar to or slightly above what you can squeeze out of a 300b, at least power wise.  A few old solder slingers I know mentioned this tube, and I'm now very curious to see what Steve does with it.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #92 - 01/03/15 at 00:36:56
 
I was just funning because Steve used to mention 300B amps. I wish him luck whatever he designs,but I'm set with amps, love the ones I have and intend to stick with them for a LOOOOOOONG time!
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #93 - 01/03/15 at 04:40:27
 
I'm still considering a Line Magnetic 219ia with 300B and 845 Tube Magic!

Cost of the better Tubes though.... .
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #94 - 01/03/15 at 19:44:11
 
No for me on the Line Magnetic.

My Zen Mystery Amplifier is so good with my CSP3-only another creation from Steve will do.

My Telefunken E88CC/6922 (A12 & B12 positions in my ZMA) arrive from Upscale Jan 8/Th...just in time for the long cold weekend of warm inside Music enjoyment.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #95 - 01/11/15 at 23:45:27
 
Hi guys
I have read this topic a few times, and I'm really keen to learn what Steve is cooking. When do you guys think there will be some actual news, and what can we expect?
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« Last Edit: 01/11/15 at 23:45:58 by jorgen »  
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #96 - 01/12/15 at 18:26:09
 
Hard to say really.  It probably depends on how much time Steve had over the holidays and how successful he was (i.e. liked what he heard).  He had something on the bench when I was there in late December.  I asked and he said, yes, that's it.

You could look to the Mystery Amp thread to see what date he started it and when he said he had something he liked.  That might give you some clue.

Also, I have observed that he likes to have something new at Decfest, but that is not till October.

I would love another Mystery Amp type thread on this amp.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #97 - 01/12/15 at 21:44:55
 
I'm in Peoria today and heading home tomorrow. I'll call him tomorrow (Monday is nose to the grindstone day at Decware so I don't bother him on Mondays), and see if I can pop by for a casual visit.  :)

I wish Steve's E-mails *ever* made it to me. I can send him an E-mail and he sees it, but I never see any of his personal responses. All the Decware general E-mails with News and Coupons make it to me (like the one today about the ZMA), just no personal responses.

So I'll call tomorrow and see if anything's brewing and report back (if I'm not sworn to secrecy)

Edit to add: DAMNIT! I forgot to bring the old Zen amp down to have Steve take a look at it.
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« Last Edit: 01/12/15 at 21:45:32 by Lonely Raven »  
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #98 - 01/14/15 at 19:03:49
 
Any news to report Raven?

I did find this earlier in the thread:

I am prototyping a single ended triode mono block with a single 6C33C and we'll see what happens. Be an all winter experiment I'm sure.

Given how much I like Rachael, a pair of these could be just right for me.  Still working with the Torii though...
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #99 - 01/14/15 at 19:43:25
 
Pal,  don't forget he also said they'd be about 10 grand a pair...If I remember correctly.  I'm happy with my Torii and Signature Monoblocks.  I won't be tempted, although I was by the Mystery Amp but when Steve described who would want it versus the Torii MK IV, I knew the Torii was all I needed.  All I play is Vinyl and Redbook...Well,  Vinyl has pretty much taken over the Listening Cave.  Redbook in the Den.  Mark.
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« Last Edit: 01/14/15 at 19:48:45 by mark58 »  

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #100 - 01/14/15 at 20:26:34
 
I thought that $10k thing was about OTL amps, not single ended monos.

I was imaginting more like the Zen Select monoblocks, except using the Russian fighterplane tubes.

I'm totally guessing, but I would figure something like that would be $1200-$1500 each.

A bit rich for my blood, but those tubes could output 15 watts, plus or minus a little. So imagine single ended 15 watt monoblocks!!

Now imagine those driving Elcaminos!!


yeah, i was too busy with work to call Steve yesterday, and certainly didn't have time to swing by. Maybe next week I can call and/or visit.
I still need to have him look at my little Zen amp, which has developed a bit of a buzz. I'm hoping it's just a flaky tube, but I'm worried it's something more. I want to start using it with the Zu Omens to get a low watt feel for the speakers.
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« Last Edit: 01/14/15 at 20:27:28 by Lonely Raven »  
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #101 - 01/14/15 at 20:42:57
 
LR,  you're right...the 10K was for the OTL Amp.  On the speculated price for the new 15 WPC Monoblocks.  Steve sold the  2 WPC Zen Signature Monoblocks for $2300 a pair without options back when mine were made in 2008.  In their life they've had a few mods including bees wax caps.  Anyway,  I would think Steve's new creation would sell for much more than you think.  But if there's a relative bargain price at introduction, I might pick up a pair.  My Omega Alincos at 93dB and 8 ohms could benefit from just a bit more juice...not that I'm complaining about them when paired with the 2 wpc  SE84ZSMs.  Mark.

http://www.decware.com/newsite/monos.htm


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« Last Edit: 01/14/15 at 20:46:34 by mark58 »  

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #102 - 01/15/15 at 04:38:17
 
Ouch, yeah, that makes me think these will be closer to the $1500 each range. More then I'd want to pay, but I know I like those tubes. And if it has the SET magic Steve is known for...it would be a great crossover product.
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« Last Edit: 01/15/15 at 09:12:38 by Lonely Raven »  
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #103 - 01/15/15 at 06:18:17
 
Maybe wishful thinking on my part as well, but Steve's amps tend to go higher per wattage.  There seems to be a hole in his lineup price and wattage wise between the Mini Torii @ $1795 and Torii @ $3499 (before options of course).  If they cost more than a Torii I won't be able to swing them so I'm keeping my finger crossed.  

These are probably the perfect fit for those who have efficient speakers (but not horn efficient), such as 93db and higher and use them for more than listening to music (I use mine for music and movies) and as an example my Taboo can do music to neighbor complaining volume levels but for movies it runs out of steam a little too early for my tastes (especially quiet dialog scenes for some reason), so these are already my dream amps and I haven't even heard them yet. Grin
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #104 - 01/15/15 at 12:08:31
 
There's definitely a need for a teen-watt powered Triode SET amp, not only because of the evident amp lineup gap, but also because the speaker lineup is lacking choices on the 95-100 dB sensitivity range. A higher powered SET amp would take advantage of the otherwise excellent borderline high sensitivity speakers in Decware's offering.

The price must be consistent with this niche, of course, but I assume a scaling up (with different tubes and trannies, but same topology) of the Super Zen, may be quite affordable (i.e., just under USD 1,500).

Edit: Think of it, I underestimated the big jump from 2.3 watts and, say, 13 watts on the potential new SET. Therefore, trannies are going to be significantly larger than the original, probably pushing final price closer to USD 2,000.
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« Last Edit: 01/15/15 at 12:43:05 by Fireblade »  

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #105 - 01/15/15 at 12:16:41
 
My guess is the cost will be about 2500 for a stereo amp or pair of monoblocks. We'll see! I can see a place for it in the lineup, but it's not tempting me.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #106 - 01/16/15 at 13:08:25
 
I´d love to see a ZMA version of the SE34!! A SET mystery amp or so... not so sure I could pay it though  :)
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #107 - 01/16/15 at 22:28:34
 
I reread the thread and I don't think you will see a SET like Rachael with these MIG tubes.  Steve said earlier that there is not way to measure the tubes without building a custom contraption so matching tubes would be difficult.  Thus the monos.

The box I saw on the bench was wider than the traditional Zen monos.  Not because of the capacitors and PTP wiring necessarily.  It has a massive toroidal transformer.

I am not sure that Steve gives too much weight to how it fits into his product line based on what I have heard him say and also heard from others.  He's going to build it and if its good enough he'll release it and price it to have a margin and let the product line chips fall where they may.

As long as we are guessing, I'm going with $3K per pair.  I hope for less, but think $3K will be practical (agreeing with Fireblades comment about transformer).
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #108 - 01/17/15 at 00:27:00
 

There's been threads in several forums about making a tube tester for these tubes. If Steve got serious, I'm sure he's got the skill to build a tube tester/burner for the 6C33C.  It would cost as much, or more then building a big amp though.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/185857-6c33c-b-tube-tester.html

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #109 - 01/17/15 at 00:31:45
 
Amplitrex has a tube tester that has a 6C33C adapter, but it's an expensive unit, and I'm unsure if it burns in and tests like Steve would need. I know he's super thorough with his tube testing.

http://www.amplitrex.com/adapters.html

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #110 - 01/19/15 at 00:58:04
 
I'm ordering the pair, the day they become available.

By no means, would I sell my:  CKC, SE84CS, CSP3 an ZMA. My children can sell them when I am deceased. If, they don't keep them for themselves.
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« Last Edit: 01/19/15 at 01:10:15 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #111 - 02/05/15 at 05:30:06
 
Hi everyone,

Just an update...  I've been balls deep in development of several new things... and the light at the end of this tunnel is getting very bright!

I'm working on the 6C33C mono's having prototyped the first working model and now building the mate to it.  No, let me rephrase that.  Having prototyped the first 16 working models and doing relentless A/B testing I have found a sound that's getting me off pretty hard with just one channel.  Within a week or so I'll be listening to a matched pair to see if this is likely to become a product or not.

Right now I'm listening to the Torii MK5.  I found it impossible to improve the MK4 any further so I had to do something extreme.  The result so far is so positive I'm not sure where it puts the ZMA or the new Mono's...  it's definitely not the same old Torii!  Out of everything this is what I'm probably the most excited about because it was long overdue and pretty much unexpected.  The test equipment and tools in my lab have gotten so good that I feel empowered.  Treat your lab well and it will return the favor.

Admittedly it is also exciting to know that with the new ZDSD player/ recorder, all who purchase one will hear what a Decware amplifier is suppose to sound like.  I know this because I'm getting forgetful and have developed a bad habit of leaving my personal SD cards in the machines when I ship them out Wink

Also, I have done a winter's worth of R&D on the Decware Sound Mats that you will see soon on the site. An affordable floor bounce mat that makes a big difference in midrange quality.  Even and especially on carpet.

We've also prototyped a monoblock that weights 47 lbs and uses a single  KT150 tube as an adversary via our in house amp wars with the 6C33C mono.

It's all really quite a lot better than drugs... this hobby is Smiley

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« Last Edit: 02/05/15 at 05:36:25 by Steve Deckert »  
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #112 - 02/05/15 at 09:14:19
 
Forum updates from Steve are like drugs.. . Give a little tease and you all know we will come back for more. I thought I might be reaching for a pair of monos, but then, a new Torii..hmm this might be a difficult choice. Im calling my employer right now asking for a pay raise, i need more money to pay for my nocturnal habits
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #113 - 02/05/15 at 11:13:44
 
I'm beginning to have an adverse reaction to them! I love what I have and can't afford to upgrade and the temptations can be unsettling. Really, as much as this forum seems to be about computer audio, high efficiency speakers and rock music more and more. . . I'm less and less its target reader as I'm less interested in these things than most. When time crunches (as it will soon for me) I may be here less, which will help with the unsettling feeling I get from all of Steve's new products.

It's great that Steve is learning and growing the product line and I'm sure the sounds are amazing! I'm just glad that I have the amazing level of sound I have and know that I have to stop the carousel and enjoy the music.
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« Last Edit: 02/05/15 at 11:56:09 by Lon »  

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #114 - 02/05/15 at 14:30:42
 
I'm booking the Hampton Inn early, to be at Decfest this year.

Torii MK5
6C33C Mono's
47lb KT150 vs. 6C33C
Sound Mats


Thanks for posting Steve. Please, do leave one of your SD cards in my ZDSD player. Smiley  I so look forward to hooking it up direct to my ZMA via Transport/CD/Up-sampling/your Output Stage. Then, enlightening myself to its other capabilities in due time.
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« Last Edit: 02/05/15 at 14:35:26 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #115 - 02/05/15 at 15:01:13
 
I had written a while back about my very positive experience using Arualex isolation platforms to decouple my subs & mains from the listening room floor. I'm not sure if the Decware Floor Mat Steve mentions is similar in concept or something different ???

In any event I thought this video was a very effective demonstration of the effect of speaker isolation / decoupling:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvOjMbrJwDY
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« Last Edit: 02/05/15 at 15:11:44 by DBC »  

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #116 - 02/05/15 at 16:19:57
 
I think that I'm with Lon on this.  Although Steve is both an audio and marketing genius, there is a fine line between making someone want more and making them feel dissatisfied with what they already have.  If new and better is too frequent then why get anything new when the next new will be better?
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #117 - 02/05/15 at 16:26:40
 
I thought the mat was going to be more like a "magic rug for audiophiles." Smiley
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #118 - 02/05/15 at 16:29:04
 
I thought the mat was going to be more like a "magic rug for audiophiles." Smiley
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #119 - 02/05/15 at 16:31:57
 
Or a prayer rug to kneel on while we pray to our audio idols!
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #120 - 02/05/15 at 16:48:58
 

Damnit Steve! And - Awesome!

I may have to swing by next week and see what's going on!  :)
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #121 - 02/05/15 at 17:04:37
 
Don't be bogarting on my #0001 LR!  heheee.........

Archie & Lon, guys, I could happily live with my System below to my end of days. However, it looks pretty certain the Torii MK5 is going to happen an will see if Steve puts the 6C33C Mono-blocks out or KT150 Mono's instead. Nothing in my below System will be departing....but, one of these three will be coming in!  Sweet! Part of my rotation with my ZMA, yaaa....don't ya know... .

First, my ZDSD my friends........ .  I'm flying the friendly sky's to a warmer clim' for some time'.....so I'll report back on the ZDSD at the end of February. I won't have it in here till after the 22nd.... .


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Sony as Transport
Illuminati D-60
Chord Chordette QuteHD DAC
Decware DSD DAC / Recorder
Kimber Select KS1030 IC RCA
Decware CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps (NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922 / E88CC for input tube)
Kimber Select KS1030 IC RCA
Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier (NOS/Platinum/Matsushita / National PCC88 / 7DJ8 in A12 an B12 inputs)
Kimber Select KS3035 Speaker Cable
Vintage Polk SDA1 Speakers in Stereo (91db)
XLO Pro Power Cords to CSP3 & ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Front End an CSP3 Regenerated/116, 118 an 120v are used/Multiwave off...ZMA on HC Output)

Decware SE84CS (w/NOS Svetlana SV83's from 1980's-not the New Sensor knock-offs) & Decware Super Zen CKC...when SE Pentodes run in Triode/Decware Style...needs to be in the System!

Decware New SET Mono's pending, either 6C33C's or KT150's
Decware Torii MK5 pending too........ .
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #122 - 02/05/15 at 17:34:34
 
I'm glad you can do that Larr. I can't afford to any longer, and I'm overjoyed with what I have now. Just like I don't like to rotate people in and out of my life, I don't like rotating amps in and out of a system, or speakers, I find what I like and sit back and enjoy. (Just like tonight I'm going to sit back and enjoy being with Lucy!)

Enjoy the warmer weather!
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #123 - 02/05/15 at 19:59:15
 
Fortunately Lon, I have a few things to sell (not my Decware). Even though I might part with my CKC only. Other than the ZDSD and one of the three Amps Steve has pending....I'm out of the market for a long time. If I can't enjoy and be grateful for what I have...then shame on me.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #124 - 02/05/15 at 21:19:24
 

Yeah, I too don't have the money for any further upgrades. Unless Steve takes me up on sweeping floors or teaches me how to wire up his amps (I'm good with a soldering iron actually). I suppose I could sell another hobby to further fund this one, but I'm quite happy with the ZMA. The MK V would have to be one groundbreaking amp to lure me away.

Funny about the KT150 - I was talking with Dave L about helping me build an amp based on the KT150. I really wanted to try something like a Zen or Zen Mono with that tube.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #125 - 02/05/15 at 23:08:02
 
Don't forget guys like me who can't afford the latest and greatest, but I feed the chain by buying your used amps and giving you a down-payment on the new stuff.

I applaud new releases.  Can't wait for Decfest.  Loving my MK III right now, but when a used ZMA comes up in a year or so, I'm on it.

It's the way of the Decware eco-system.  It's great that there are ready buyers out there wanting to join.

The only problem I have is I bought a new-used MK III, but can't emotionally let go of my Rachael.  I think I need counseling.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #126 - 02/05/15 at 23:33:19
 
Dr. Marky here Pal.
   Introduce Rachael to the Mk 3. Both amps hooked up via a Decware switchbox.

Steve must be due a holiday in the sun somewhere. Up to his balls is right. Did he say 16 prototypes ?
Bounce mat lol, great name. I`m getting a pair.
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« Last Edit: 02/05/15 at 23:34:02 by Syd »  

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #127 - 02/06/15 at 05:47:29
 
Bummer, and I just got my new Torii IV...
It only got 20hrs on it yet, but I'm surprised how good the B&W 805 can actually sound! Will be interesting to hear the comparison to the ERRx I have on order.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #128 - 02/06/15 at 11:57:38
 
Exciting stuff! I still think an integrated SET with wattage in the teens would make waves in this community.  Same magic sound, more affordable and flexible device ... The Decware philosophy of yesterday?
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« Last Edit: 02/06/15 at 12:34:28 by Fireblade »  

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #129 - 02/06/15 at 14:18:35
 
I actually have two Rachael's Marky.

I legitimately "need" one for a second system.  Its the other than starts to place me in the hording camp.

I do like the idea of a switchbox for comparo
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #130 - 02/06/15 at 14:37:40
 

And here all I have is an "old" ZMA.  :)

I'm looking forward to hearing your tweaked system Palo.

Which speakers are you using? The El Camino that I broke in for you? Smiley

I think it's also time you come over for a listen on the Blue Zu.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #131 - 02/06/15 at 17:35:21
 
I think you need to trade up to one of Steve's new wunder-amps  ;)

El Caminos will be tonight now that I am done fiddlin'

I do want to hear the Blue Zu.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #132 - 02/07/15 at 19:35:27
 
Quote:
there is a fine line between making someone want more and making them feel dissatisfied with what they already have.


I'd like to speak to this...  there is a VERY fine line between making someone want more and making them feel dissatisfied with what they already have. Any time there is a new product or update for an existing product I feel lots of stress knowing this is going to be the common interpretation.

Believe it or not, updates are never planned. They are accidental discoveries that happen as a result of continual probing and wonderment.  

It's important to understand I have never once updated one of our products because I wanted to make it sound better! If I thought it could sound better, I would have never released it in the first place.

Let me use the TORII as an example...

Original TORII (blue) was updated because the original design was flawed.  It required output transformers that were matched out past 100KHz to work properly (it took two on each side) and there is no way to measure an output transformer accurately that high in frequency.  On average I had to build and test three amps just to get one that I could sell.  It wasn't worth it.

Torii MKII (black with the back lit Decware logo) solved these problems by going to a conventional transformer design, and an enlarged chassis that made it possible to improve the layout and reduce heat.

Torii MK III(white) Another few hundred amps down the road and enough was learned to further improve the amp by simplifying the ground buss which dropped the noise floor, made building it a smoother experience and made it more UPS proof by increasing the impact G load to 70G's before part leads would bend or move.

Torii MK IV(black) Was motivated by the desire to change the whole line from white (that showed scratches) to black finishes that don't scratch. Any time you make a new chassis little things are bumped around to improve spacings and accommodate any mods or features you've been wishing for like increasing the impact tolerance to 90 G's.

Of course with each revision we tried to make the sound a little better, but really the correct term is "a little faster". This is largely determined by choice of coupling caps, and since good sounding DAC's have become more affordable each year, it made it possible to increase the speed of the amps in small increments. This is of course risky because the amp can become too revealing or put another way, less forgiving risking a loss of musicality.  Slightly slower is always safer.

Our original Zen amp was upgraded a year or so into the game (1999) because so many people who purchased one were putting faster caps in it and doing other mods that frankly ruined the signature of the amp...  Something that took me over 3 years to perfect.  So I decided if they want a modded zen amp, I'll offer a modded zen amp that is done correctly, and we did.  It was called the "Select".  Was it better than the original amp which we continued to sell, no.  It was faster.  To a guy with an expensive source and cables, it was better.  To a guy with a typical mid-fi CD player it was worse.

So you see, "making someone want more" has never been the motivation for any updates. And thinking that each new model sounds so much better than the previous that you have to get one would be in error.  My advise is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

The TORII has always been a very unique amplifier. It attempts to make a non-linear pentode linear without the two requirements needed to accomplish that - which are ultra-linear output transformers or negative feedback. The penalty with this is that current follows impedance and some speakers are less compatible than others. Granted it's only about 1 in 30 pair but having built a worse case scenario speaker for the TORII as a test device I am reminded every day that the amp could be better by being compatible with more speakers.

That really means that anyone owning a TORII who has speakers that the amp likes, will see little to no benefit from updating, and would be going from a well seasoned amplifier to a brand new one that has to be burned in again.  

The TORII MKIV was tweaked as far as it could be meaning that there was nothing left I could do to make it sound any better.  It's peaked out, as we like to say.

So what was the reason to come out with a MKIV?  

The TORII has always been a little tweaky. The adjustments it has are placed there to deal with the tweaky nature of the amp relative to the speakers you paired it with. The adjustments simply make the amp more compatible with a wider range of speakers.

Having owned the ZMA for a couple years, an amp with not one adjustment to change the sound, I have noticed that I've never wanted to adjust the sound! It just sounds right all the time. Reason for this is because the ZMA is far less picky about the speakers you pair with it.

Quite by accident, which is usually the case, I discovered a way to make the TORII less picky about speakers without changing the output design of the amplifier - which is what defines it as a TORII. It's one of those things that as a designer you've been wishing you could do since the amp's inception.

To see how well the MK IV fairs in this test I currently have no adjustments of any kind on the amp and am rolling tubes to see how it behaves with each. This is as far as I've gotten with it, so no point in starting a barrage of questions about it. Let me spend some time with it to make sure it's right. I don't want a TORII MK 6!

If anyone who has received a TORII MKIV recently feels anxiety about the MKV just drop me an email and we'll see what we can work out.

Steve



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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #133 - 02/07/15 at 22:08:56
 
Steve,

Thanks for that clarification.  As always, I need to take a few deep breaths and gain some perspective.  For my system, at this point anyway, my room is the weak link.  I'm sure that I don't speak only for myself when I say that I am grateful that you continue to tweak and innovate!  
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #134 - 02/08/15 at 00:54:14
 
Steve, you're the best! Keep up with your great work and correct attitude, we welcome both!

My Mini Torii keeps amazing me, and is the only component I'm sure will always be with me. That does not rule out a Torii MK'X' some day, as a more powerful alternating companion to the Mini in my setup.
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« Last Edit: 02/08/15 at 01:01:15 by Fireblade »  

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #135 - 02/08/15 at 05:27:47
 
I am blown away by my MKIV. Part of this is that the whole system is tweaked and easily tweak able, but here the MKIV controls work great, so I don't need the amp to be more polite with speakers. And judging from the MKIII to MKIV improvements in my system, I bet you have a few other MKV tricks up the sleeve Steve!

Wink

EDIt: But it was the MKIII that made me have to learn to manage excess bass in my system/room Smiley
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« Last Edit: 02/08/15 at 15:14:03 by will »  

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #136 - 02/08/15 at 06:48:47
 
Steve,  once the Mark V is finalized, do you see being able to upgrade a MKIII to a V?

Thanks,
Greg
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #137 - 02/08/15 at 13:44:59
 
My SE84B is already the fastest amp I own. Ill be sending it in soon for upgrades and a checkover so I cant imagine a faster sound, should be interesting.  So many cool things going on here.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #138 - 02/08/15 at 16:17:47
 
I love reading Steve's posts about his making revised or upgraded product because it actually is better, not that it has a new faceplate on it. It has taken me almost 10 years since I got my first Zen SE84CS (still have it) to my new Rachael and ZP3. I got SO tired of the merry go round of components, the lusting after something better. I now have better. I have  ads posted for my speakers and other odd & ends to fund new Decware speakers and a new DAC but have spend the last four months just enjoying my Decware amp and phonostage. I like Decware progress but love opening my closet door in the morning, turning on Rachael and ZP3 and trying to find what I want to listen to. Keep up the hard work Steve and I keep up the happy listening. Best to all, Chris.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #139 - 02/11/15 at 16:59:51
 
hrider,  I second that !
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #140 - 02/13/15 at 15:26:08
 
Hd, I hear that. It took me 11.5 years to buy another Decware Amp. I too, was so happy with my SE84CS. I still am happy with it. The last 3 years I've expanded with more Decware. However, the spicket needs to be shut off soon and continue the enjoyment (only).

...after the ZDSD, I should have next week and maybe a KT150 design from Steve.....if he releases it.  

If not, I might pick up a Dennis Had (retired/Inspire) KT150. However, it looks a little weak....so maybe not.
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« Last Edit: 02/13/15 at 15:29:35 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #141 - 02/13/15 at 20:54:31
 
Quote:
Steve,  once the Mark V is finalized, do you see being able to upgrade a MKIII to a V?

Thanks,
Greg



Yes any MKIII or MKIV will be able to be updated to a MKV when it comes out.

Thanks,

Steve
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #142 - 02/13/15 at 22:50:37
 

Paging Palomino! Come in Palomino!
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #143 - 02/13/15 at 23:01:35
 
I am here enabler extraordinare.  

I am enjoying my MKIII for the moment.  I find it to be an extraordinary amp even though I'm a generation or two behind.

The only thought entering my mind is replacing the VCAPS with beeswax.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #144 - 02/14/15 at 01:27:08
 
This makes a hard choice ... the new SET monos with all it's SET qualities, but which only a handful of speakers are efficient enough for them or the new Torii which is closing the performance gap between it and the ZMA and which opens up a more broader speaker selection and also gives some over head power wise.

Considering that the Torii only lost out for the Tone Audio Amp Of The Year to its big brother the ZMA makes the choice even harder if the new Torii has really kicked it up a couple notches or more.

Either way it's good to have choices and be a part of a great audio company such as Decware!
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« Last Edit: 02/14/15 at 08:22:46 by beowulf »  
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #145 - 02/14/15 at 01:48:43
 
Speaking as one who owns both a Torii MK IV and a 2008 pair of Modified 2.3 WPC Zen Signature Monoblocks,  Go for the Torii, if you can only have one.  Like you said, with the Torii you can choose from probably a hundred speakers and with the 2 WPC SET there probably aren't more than ten companies that make compatible speakers...probably more like a half dozen.  But why choose...get both!  But if the new SET monos have 15 WPC or so...the decision becomes tougher, doesn't it.  Mark.

If I were ordering a Torii again, I'd get dual gain/volume controls.  Of course if you know you'll use a preamp, these would not be necessary.  I find being able to adjust each channel differently a value on some recordings in my room.  So I have to use a CSP3...not that this is a hardship.
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« Last Edit: 02/14/15 at 01:56:39 by mark58 »  

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #146 - 02/14/15 at 05:44:41
 
10 roger on the being able to adjust right/left levels.  I too use a preamp just for that reason... and also, just as important, so I can control the volume with a wireless remote and not by getting up & down out of my chair every 3-4 minutes when the music selection changes and the volume needs to be adjusted to get it "just right".
I went thru about an 18 month process of trying to find a preamp that I liked sonically and had the features I demanded.  Well... I never exactly found one - exactly!  So now I have three preamps.  Two SS and one all tube unit.  The interesting thing I learned during this journey, was the discovery that, by swapping tubes around in my Torii, based on which preamp I was using, I could basically arrive at the same sonic destination.  So.. I need to settle on one preamp and sell the other two.  Problem is, I have trouble parting with equipment "I like", regardless of whether or not I'm actually using it, nor if I need it!  Audiophile nervosa is terminal!  Lord help me.....

I believe I have read the Steve is working on a new preamp.  Please, please, please Steve... build it with remote control of the volume.  I don't need any other functions available on the remote, but I demand remote control of the volume.  If you want to sell a boat-load of Decware preamps - make remote volume at least an option...  I'll be the first one to "pre-order" your new preamp if it has remote volume control.

fellow Decwarians...lets stand together - perhaps we should start a thread for the new preamp and see if we can get Steve to accept our input.  What do you say?
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #147 - 02/14/15 at 09:32:49
 
maddog07 wrote on 02/14/15 at 05:44:41:
I believe I have read the Steve is working on a new preamp.  Please, please, please Steve... build it with remote control of the volume.  I don't need any other functions available on the remote, but I demand remote control of the volume.  If you want to sell a boat-load of Decware preamps - make remote volume at least an option...  I'll be the first one to "pre-order" your new preamp if it has remote volume control.

fellow Decwarians...lets stand together - perhaps we should start a thread for the new preamp and see if we can get Steve to accept our input.  What do you say?


I'm with ya ... I have been waiting for a more flexible preamp than the CSPs to come out and remote volume is most important but source switching would be cool as well.  I would also like to see a real balanced option since Steve has been offering it on his amps, with at least 4 sources and an entry level phono stage option as well while I'm wishing. Grin
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #148 - 02/14/15 at 12:52:12
 
I can see a balanced option but adding a remote and combining  a phono stage and preamp in the same box, seems like it would be counter to the whole Zen Culture where simple is better, that Steve espouses.  Mark.

PS...But I do love my remote for the Jolida 100 CD Player  ;)
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« Last Edit: 02/14/15 at 13:02:42 by mark58 »  

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #149 - 02/15/15 at 06:26:14
 
Beowoulf I used to be with you on the more affordable phono pre. but after springing for my ZP3 I cant imagine using another one along with my music hall 7.1 its amazing I am spoiled in 3D
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #150 - 02/16/15 at 03:12:45
 
@ darrwood, yes I understand that the option of a phono stage would not compete with something of the ZP3's performance.  I see that option as a selling point for those who need a preamp and don't have the budget for both a preamp and separate phono stage of the ZP3's caliber.  They could always add a ZP3 at a later date, but an internal option would get them covered until their budget replenishes.

When I chose a preamp I wanted 3 main things (other than of course to be as transparent as possible)  ... (1) enough inputs for at least 4 components, (2) a phono stage that could get me by and (3) remote for volume and input switching.  The preamp I currently have excels in all these areas and I'm lucky enough that the phono stage is excellent and on par with some external phono stages that I've heard.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #151 - 02/16/15 at 03:53:25
 
Beowulf I use a Dynaco sca35 which has a phono pre amp integrated. I used the pre amp for a number of years until I was able to upgrade to the ZP3. I am still using the Dynaco as my amp, its been worked on a few times to upgrade and keep it going. I would love to move up to a Rachael or something but you know about budgets.  I am so blessed to be where I am with My favorite toy. I would love to spend less to replace my Dynaco, looks like I will likely use it as long as it functions.  I agree that an integrated preamp unit as you describe would be Great.
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Reply #152 - 02/19/15 at 03:51:08
 
I wrote a paper on the differences between the MK4 and the new MK5 which will carry us over until a new MK5 owner's manual is written and the web page is updated.  

http://www.decware.com/newsite/MK5GUIDE.pdf

Steve

Note this paper was modified 30 days later so reading it will be like jumping ahead in this thread 30 days.
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« Last Edit: 03/15/15 at 00:04:23 by Steve Deckert »  
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #153 - 02/19/15 at 04:19:58
 
In the Triode\Pentode section you mention KT88 tubes - is that a typo?

It's a very interesting read - I'm looking forward to hearing this soon!
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #154 - 02/19/15 at 21:09:08
 
Ah, did I mention I wanted KT150 or 6C33C? Ah, scratch that. The Torii 5, ZMA, CSP3 an SE84CS will do. My CKC is a wonderful Amp. However, I prefer my SE84CS over the Hazen Grid mod, etc.... .
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« Last Edit: 02/19/15 at 21:11:08 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #155 - 02/19/15 at 23:09:25
 
With the new Torii being Triode or Pentode capable, I'm wondering if there is actually a need for another SET amp in higher wattages? (unless Steve still wants to create an amp using that MiG tube)
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« Last Edit: 02/19/15 at 23:20:42 by beowulf »  
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #156 - 02/19/15 at 23:15:13
 
My sentiments exactly.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #157 - 02/23/15 at 05:29:43
 
As soon as Steve is ready to start, I'm sending in my V-capped/Jupiter capped Mark III/IV, to be converted to the Mark V.  

I'm up for it.  

I've had a I, II, and the III and IV, may as well keep climbing  up the evolutionary ladder.

Wonderin' though, how he's going to fit the 5U4G Rectifiers in the area formerly occupied by the OA3's?  Unless he redrills the two  holes for the OA3 tube sockets,   it looks to be a very tight fit for big bottle type Rectifiers.

Any thoughts on that?

Mike in Seattle area

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #158 - 02/23/15 at 14:04:17
 
Has Steve mentioned yet the price to convert an MK3 to an MK5?
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #159 - 02/23/15 at 16:39:19
 
No mention of a price yet...
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #160 - 02/27/15 at 14:08:18
 
Look forward to seeing it tgarden. It does look tight for the 5U4's... . I like the new design.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #161 - 02/27/15 at 17:17:20
 
I just tried one of my 1940's Tung Sol top getter 5U4G's, in the OA3 position, and it fit just fine, about 1/4" away from the transformer.

So, no issue with that part of the conversion

Also, I talked with Steve this morning, and sometime in the near future, I am sending my Mark III/IV conversion to Decware, to be the customer test subject for the Mark V conversion.

The price? Who knows at this point. Whatever it is, I'll pay it anyway. Steve is always fair.  

It would ne nice to have a brand new Mark V,  but I've got over 5000 hours on my original V-Capped Mark  III;  and maybe 2000 hours on the Jupiter-capped Mark IV conversion that was done to it.  I love the effect of the V-Caps and the Jupiters working together, so this amp is a keeper.

I'm getting pretty excited about this Mark V conversion.

As soon as I hear anything from Steve, I'll update here.

Mike in Seattle area

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« Last Edit: 02/27/15 at 17:19:53 by tgarden »  
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #162 - 02/27/15 at 17:35:19
 
For sure keep us posted tgarden! Good news on the 5U4G's. Figures Steve had that covered for a fit. Upgrading your burned in IV is the way to do it for sure.  Cool.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #163 - 02/27/15 at 18:30:39
 
Hi stone_of_tone,  Yeah, For anyone who has a burned in III or IV,  upgrading seems like the way to go.

I'll keep everyone posted. I'm curious to hear how much of an upgrade the V really is.  Now they'll be another pair of tubes to roll, which can  add new flavors to the Torii amp's sonic signature

Mike in Seattle area
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #164 - 02/27/15 at 19:11:04
 
I had missed Steve's paper on the V before, just read it today.

Intriguing changes and I'd send one of my IIIs in for upgrading for use in one osf my of my systems except. . .the loss of treble and bass controls. There is not one Decware amp used in any of the six rooms I've used Decware amps since '97 that I haven't needed or wanted treble adjustment, and the one amp with the bass controls i love the most for that flexibility. Yes, one can adjust the tone in some ways by tube rolling, but from my experience this is not at all sufficient for my needs. These controls were the biggest innovation of the Decware line for me and are excellent listening tools.

I may have different hearing than others, but I need those controls and wouldn't wan tto have to buy another component and cabling to add them into the mix.

With these controls, and the flexibility of the Decware speakers in my system, my IIIs let me listen to all my many recordings comfortably, which is my goal. So I can see how this would benefit others who hear differently, but. . . they can have my place in the queue. Smiley
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #165 - 02/27/15 at 19:45:56
 
Lon, just curious, do you experience treble sensitivity with live music?  I guess non-amplified to take the amps out of that mix.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #166 - 02/27/15 at 19:55:26
 
For me it's different.  Once I had my treble control dialed in to where it sounded fine (on my MK III/IV conversion), I never touched it.

Well, actually I did revisit it, but always kept going back to the same setting.

Could it be since I only listen to analog, mainly jazz  & classical recordings?

I don't know.  I've only got about ninety hours on my new Rega RP10 with Clearaudio Maestro V2 ebony cartridge;  but 98% of what I've listened to, sounds very good to fabulous. Most of my Rock/Pop records even sound very good.   And some of the pop stuff that's not exactly a sonic blockbuster? I can always play it on my old Rega P25, that's now in a bedroom system.

I'm willing to live without the treble controls for whatever benefits the MK V conversion is supposed to offer.  Time will tell.

Mike in Seattle area
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #167 - 02/27/15 at 19:57:47
 
Lon,  I read Steve's paper when it came out and it sounds exciting and I would definitely buy one if I didn't already have the MK IV but I wouldn't want to go through another break in and all the adjustments...tube rolling etc again when I'm so close to having my main system dialed in.  It'd be starting over for me and as you've heard me say before..."The Enemy of Good is Better" or another good saying..."A bird in the hand is better than two in the bush".  I'm with you Lon, I'll read with interest about the Torii MK V but won't be getting the mod.

And on another note...Ron at cyoset not having the Tubes I ordered might be a blessing in disguise....might save me from many painful hours of break in with the new tubes.  This weekend I'll think about what to do.

Lon,  how long did the new issue 6L6 tubes you bought take to break in?  Mark.

PS...here's a question for Steve D.  or anyone else who knows.  Would I harm the Torii if I put 4 poorly matched power tubes in it.  The Russian tubes I wanted in unmatched condition are what I'm thinking of just to get an idea of what they're like.
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« Last Edit: 02/27/15 at 20:05:10 by mark58 »  

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #168 - 02/27/15 at 20:04:22
 
Mike, I don't fiddle with my controls much at all, but almost always the treble is turned down 3/4 and the bass up 1/2 to 3/4 or so, and this with high resistors in the speakers. Something may be different with my hearing. I've had it tested three times in the last seven years and I hear high into the range, by some miracle I haven't lost much high frequency range. But I don't like a lot of what comes through even on these the best amps I've ever heard at home. My doctor says there is a form of tinnitus where high frequency sounds are unpleasant and start ringing. I don't the ringing though, just the big brightness so he's not sure I have it.

It is better were I to listen to only analog but I can't, won't. I just know from past experiences with Decware amps (and sources) without controls that I need them. Too bad because the innovations in the V are certainly intriguing. Ah well, I'm happy with my IIIs!
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« Last Edit: 02/27/15 at 20:33:41 by Lon »  

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #169 - 02/27/15 at 20:07:28
 
Mark, I don't remember specifically but probably about 100 hours for all the frequencies to stabilize.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #170 - 02/27/15 at 20:47:28
 
Lon,  About twenty-five years ago, I had tinnitus, and it took several years to go away.  It was no walk in the park, believe me; it was 24/7.

Now, once in a great while, everything sounds bright and ringy. When that happens, I don't listen to music, except as background.

I meditate almost daily and my treble sensitivity seems fine.

My treble control is turned to the 1/2 (neutral?) position

Mike
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #171 - 02/27/15 at 21:14:23
 
Well, I hope the lack of the control on the V works well for you. It would give me pause if mine were set and half. But we're all different.

I'm happy to get off the upgrade wagon for a while! My turn table will be next, at one point I'm going to add the Groovetracer Reference subplatter.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #172 - 02/27/15 at 23:10:53
 
as someone pointed out earlier, Steve's link to a document on the mk.V... mentioned KT-88 output tubes as possible variants to use in the mk.V.  Did anybody ever find out from Steve if that was a typo or if the V really will be able to use KT-88's?
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #173 - 02/28/15 at 00:02:48
 
Lon,  I'm sure you'll like the Groovetracer Reference subplatter upgrade.
I did that to my Rega 25 a few years back, and it made a big difference.
It's an easy install, and it's nice to have a brand new high tolerance bearing.

Mike
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #174 - 02/28/15 at 00:07:41
 
I'm sure I will. Will get around to that soon, have a lot on my plate right now, getting ready to move, finding another place for my Dad, etc. And very little listening time!
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #175 - 02/28/15 at 03:55:49
 
Hey Lon, and others with treble sensitivity,

Have any of you looked at speakers with active (or semi-active) crossovers? I have some VMPS speakers with l-pots on the treble and mids. Normally I haven't needed to move them much, but I bought a set of Transparent Audio speaker cables recently, and they seem to accentuate the bass by quite a bit. I found myself needing to turn the treble and the mids both up to compensate. (I had them turned down when I was using Steve's silver cables, as they were a little hot). VMPS isn't around any more, as Brian Cheney died a couple of years ago, but you can still find used 626s, RM30s, RM40s around. Killer midrange, I have to say. There may be other speakers with similar setups that I don't know about. It would allow you to use amps w/o treble/bass cuts. Anyway, just a thought.

Randy
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #176 - 02/28/15 at 10:55:49
 
I'm using Decware speakers (and can't see myself moving away from these quality speakers) that have treble adjustment via resistors and also amazing midrange and bass performance. .. so I think I'm covered as far as that goes. And I STILL need the treble cut circuit in the amps, won't be able to do without them.

It's not really a problem because my Torii Mk IIIs have the flexibility i need. I'm just not able to go beyond these in the world of Decware amps should I need to as the next models don't feature the same or any controls. And that's cool now.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #177 - 03/02/15 at 04:22:23
 
Hey Lon, I thought that that would be your response - you seem to have your system so dialed in, now. I'm still experimenting a little bit, but I'm coming up to a time where I will have to make some hard choices, as I simply have too much audio gear. Gotta start the "thinning out" process. Hard to do, though.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #178 - 03/02/15 at 10:55:52
 
It sure is hard to do. I have four systems, and some stuff in the closet. When I move this summer I'll no longer need one system at all, but I bet I just find a bigger closet. Wink
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #179 - 03/15/15 at 00:05:09
 
UPDATE!

There will be no TORII MK V as scheduled.  To find out why you can read the now updated Design Notes as I've taken what was there and labeled it Part 1, and added an entire Part 2 explaining what happened and why the amp was shelved.

http://www.decware.com/newsite/MK5GUIDE.pdf

-Steve Smiley
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #180 - 03/15/15 at 00:45:03
 
Steve,  At least you attempted to improve the Mark IV.  Nothing ventured, nothing gained. I'm glad you tried.

Too bad about that 19K spent on R & D, though.

Mike in Seattle area
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #181 - 03/15/15 at 01:28:40
 
It would have been nice to see a Decware offering that used the 6SN7 tube.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #182 - 03/15/15 at 02:56:21
 
Sorry Steve...but I am guessing a lot of what is useful from this exploration will one day show up in another outrageous amp for our listening pleasure!
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #183 - 03/15/15 at 12:36:06
 
Steve,

It is really refreshing to hear someone who is so talented, dedicated and experienced admit when something doesn't work out.  One of the reasons I spend my hard earned money on Decware.  I'm sure this experience will pay dividends in the long run.

JD
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #184 - 03/15/15 at 17:39:37
 
Thanks Steve for sharing the details of this. It makes me appreciate all the work you do. Are you still continuing the Amp wars of the KT150 Mono's against 6C33C Mono's with maybe, 6SN7's?
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« Last Edit: 03/15/15 at 17:45:11 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #185 - 03/16/15 at 05:26:11
 
Thanks Steve for letting us take part in your journey of finding an improved Torii and for being willing to not just ship a product until it is perfect in all regards, not just sounding better. Since I'm using my Torii in a small room in CA I'm really grateful that the current version does not get that hot.
I hope that someday you'll find a way to bring triode mode to the Torii without any sacrifices in other areas.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #186 - 03/16/15 at 13:08:03
 
Steve, there's no merit in making something the easy way. Pushing the limits of the field makes you a pioneer, not without drawbacks, of course, but someone who leaves a legacy behind. You have proven this yourself several times already, so this is just another step in that perpetual up-stair climbing journey to perfection.

BTW, what about a Torii with watts in the teens, whether PP or Triode/Pentode configuration? A scaled down version of the excellent Torii MKIV would fill a nice niche in Decware's product range, for price and convenience (i.e., smaller listening rooms). The excellent Mini Torii and Rachael are just a bit too short on power for many applications and the available range of speaker sensitivities on offer at reasonable prices.

Thanks for your great contributions, Steve.
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« Last Edit: 03/16/15 at 13:09:06 by Fireblade »  

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #187 - 03/16/15 at 16:55:07
 
I think this kind of thing is what makes Decware so great. Thanks Steve! Luis
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #188 - 03/16/15 at 17:31:28
 
I appreciate all the kind words and support...  the audio Gods work in mysterious ways, but after twenty years I've learned that extraordinary dues must be paid to achieve anything exceptional so now I wait to see what that might be. Meanwhile I will go back to my 6C33 mono's and see if there is any promise there, as well as work on my new preamp that I am the most excited about.  Hope to have it ready by October.

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #189 - 04/20/15 at 00:54:05
 
Hi guys
Anyone familiar with any development with the new monoblock SET amplifiers? I know Steve will announce big news in the forums, but some of you guys seems to have some inside information.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #190 - 04/20/15 at 08:35:06
 
jorgen wrote on 04/20/15 at 00:54:05:
Hi guys
Anyone familiar with any development with the new monoblock SET amplifiers? I know Steve will announce big news in the forums, but some of you guys seems to have some inside information.


Steve made a mention of the new mono SETs in the UFO mod thread page 4 and there was also a picture of the prototypes posted by Lonely Raven.



Other than that, I haven't seen anything else.  I think Steve is particularly interested and focusing on getting the UFO mods and Preamp out first.
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Reply #191 - 04/20/15 at 21:02:48
 
Beowolf
Hi and thanks, not sure how I missed that post, but seems like great news. Looks exciting. Might be a noob question, but a pair of monoblocks will require a preamp?
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Reply #192 - 04/20/15 at 21:47:25
 
Unless they will have RCA or Balanced line level inputs than yes.  A perfect match for the up and coming preamp Steve is working on. Cool
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #193 - 05/03/15 at 01:47:49
 
Well after a weekend long session with these I have made great progress.  The power supply was too large (670mA, 2000uf) and the bias supply was too crude.  After getting the power supply bypassed properly everything locked into place.  I've been listening to these daily now for over a week and once a few more NOS EF86 show up I'll be doing some more serious comparisons.  Right now they're like listening to giant zen amps... go figure.

Steve
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #194 - 05/03/15 at 06:50:24
 
Thanks Steve for the update.  I've had a couple of nice days listening to my Zen as well, making it harder to consider any topology other than Single Ended Triode.  Power is nice, but transparency and accuracy is better (for me).  I'll have my eye on these with 4x Zen power, however, the requisite preamp will need to survive the bypass test.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #195 - 05/03/15 at 15:38:58
 
Cool, thanks Steve for the update on these!  

NOS EF86, researching those right now.....cool.
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« Last Edit: 05/03/15 at 21:47:35 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #196 - 05/04/15 at 19:18:38
 
I'm torn between a Super Zen with the UFO Mod and Beeswax Caps and the higher powered Torii (or eventually the Ultralinear if the transparency specs hold). I really thing power is more than enough with my current Mini Torii, and I also prefer transparency, speed and high resolution over mere power.
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Reply #197 - 05/04/15 at 21:01:51
 
Quote:
Fireblade wrote:

I also prefer transparency, speed and high resolution over mere power.


I had a Zen Select and went to Decfest a few years ago convinced I needed a Rachael (6 watts/channel). Came back and ordered the Super Zen and have never looked back. Listened to the Rachael & Super Zen on the Decware HDT's. To my ear the Super Zen played just as loud as the Rachael but the Rachael did not seem have quite the same Transparency & Resolution.

IMO the Super Zen is the Transparency/Speed/Resolution Champ compared to the other Decware amps which are all fine amps. The Super Zen with Omega 6 Monitors are a great combo. If you like Rock then add the Very Musical DeepOmega 8 or 12 for bottom end attack.

There are quite a few good speakers available today at reasonable prices that can Rock with 2 watts. My guess is that the Super Zen often gets passed over because it's only two watts.

My Super Zen / Omega Monitor / Sub combo Rock just as hard as my 220 watt Peachtree. The Peachtree can play Louder but quite frankly the Super Zen plays right on the edge of Too Loud.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #198 - 05/04/15 at 22:00:49
 
Great, DBC, thanks for the feedback.

I have Tekton Lore 2.0's @ 98 dB and 8 Ohm. The Impedance spec is my only concern with the Super Zen: The ideal for the Zen would be 4 Ohms (contrary to the Mini Torii, which prefers 8 Ohms). So, I'm not sure if the combination would work volume wise as it does with my Mini Torii. But, given your experience with the Super Zen, I'm guessing I'll have the same results.

The added advantage now is the new Zen will bring UFO Mods and Beeswax Caps, which improve on the already great little guy. This and a new Super Dupper balanced DAC plus the ZBIT may even improve things further ...

Now, what would happen if I were to beef up my Mini Torii with said mods? mmmmhh!!



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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #199 - 05/04/15 at 23:41:13
 
Fireblade,

You realize you have the option to specify 4 or 8 ohm output transformers when you order the Super Zen?

I've seen comments where supposedly the 4 ohm output transformers sound better than the 8 ohm on the Super Zen. I used my Zen Select (4 ohm transformers) to drive a pair of Klipsch RF-7's (102db, 8 ohm). I purchased the Super Zen with the 8 ohm transformers and right out of the box it sounded better and played louder than the Select on these speakers. Based on this I would think the Super Zen with 8 ohm transformers would do very well with your Lore's.

I'm currently driving my Omega 6 Monitors (93db, 8 ohm) with the Super Zen and it is really amazing how loud the combo plays. On most CD's it is capable of playing louder than you would need or want. I listen to a lot of Classic Rock.

The only weakness of the Super Zen is that it's 2 watts can leave you wanting for a bit more Bass Slam on some recordings (Classic Rock for example). This can be fully rectified by adding a very musical sub like the DeepOmega 8 or 12 from Omega. The beauty of this sub is that it can play cleanly up to about 150hz to provide substantial Mid Bass reinforcement.

I use the Hsu Mid Bass Module which is basically a poor mans DeepOmega 12. Unfortunately Hsu has discontinued production of the Mid Bass Module. I hope to upgrade to the DeepOmega 12 at some point in the future.



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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #200 - 05/05/15 at 03:19:25
 
Steve, you mentioned they sound like giant Zens. What kind of output range are you ranging for on the new Mono's?
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« Last Edit: 05/05/15 at 03:21:42 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #201 - 05/05/15 at 12:28:48
 
I was not aware of that transformer option, DBC. Thanks for the heads up!
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #202 - 05/05/15 at 15:34:11
 
Steve, I am definitely interested in purchasing these Mono's. Actually, before the new Pre. However, the new Pre probably won't follow far behind (Remote Volume).

I have my CSP3 so dialed in with my ZMA-I don't want to change anything other than the 6C33C TRIODE Tube Mono's coming in, with your Topology an Voicing! The ZMA is a masterpiece, it will be going nowhere.
Having the choice of ZDSD to CSP3, or ZDSD direct to ZMA, 6C33C Mono's or SE84CS-will be as good as it can get.

Keep the info coming. I will gladly purchase a pair when you feel they are ready.

Steve, you mentioned they sound like giant Zens. What kind of output range are you ranging for on the new Mono's? Just like the CS at 2 watts/ch......the new Mono's can sound giant @ 15, 18 or 20/ch with the 6C33C. I believe it.
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« Last Edit: 05/05/15 at 15:37:55 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #203 - 05/14/15 at 18:44:49
 
Steve, any luck with the additional NOS EF86 you were getting in?





Listening Room:
Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew
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Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier (NOS/Platinum/Matsushita/National PCC88/7DJ8.....in A12 an B12 Input Tube positions)
Kimber Select KS3033 Speaker Cable

***Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)

XLO Pro Power Cords to CSP3 an ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport, ZDSD an CSP3, Regenerated/118, 119 an 120v are used/Multiwave off...ZMA on HC Output)


Decware SE84CS (NOS Svetlana SV83's from 1980's-not the New Sensor knock-offs) ...when SE Pentodes run in Triode/Decware Style...needs to be in the System!

Pending: Decware SE TRIODE 6C33C Mono-blocks




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« Last Edit: 05/15/15 at 13:30:43 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #204 - 05/15/15 at 17:42:03
 
UFO Transformers in the new Mono's too?
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #205 - 05/15/15 at 20:15:14
 
I think the UFO transformers are the standard going forward. So, yes.

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #206 - 05/16/15 at 16:41:07
 
Makes sense, from what I read too. After he exhausts the inventory of the Tranny's.....the UFO will be standard implement.

I just sold my 3035's.....puts me just under 5k in the kitty.

Bring on the SE Triode 6C33C Mono-blocks!

Toys.....got to have toys!  I just wish they were not so damn expensive.  ;D
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« Last Edit: 05/16/15 at 16:44:16 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #207 - 05/16/15 at 23:35:02
 
Quote:
Stone said,
Toys.....got to have toys!  I just wish they were not so damn expensive.


Tell me about it!  A pair os sets capable of putting out watts into the teens are my dream amps ... I just hope that they aren't going to be so expensive as to keep me out of the market for them. Undecided
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #208 - 05/17/15 at 00:17:45
 
I guess I'm living the dream. I can't believe how great everything sounds these days. Figures I'll have to dismantle the whole system in two months!
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #209 - 05/17/15 at 01:00:13
 
@ Lon - you've been at this for a long time, quite the pioneer for sure.  I bet your system sounds absolutely amazing and really dialed in!
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #210 - 05/17/15 at 01:09:52
 
I don't know about that. . . I do know that its sound reflects how I want my playback to sound. . . but I do realize over time reading this forum and Hoffman board. . . how I want things to sound is not necessarily how others do!

But yeah, I've been tinkering with this for a few decades and I've depleted both my resources and my patience for more radical change. I'm trying to just sit pretty and listen. If I get a windfall, I'll order Steve's Zen Monos and his new preamp and be done, again. If he can squeeze a treble cut circuit in there somewhere Wink
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« Last Edit: 05/17/15 at 01:10:16 by Lon »  

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #211 - 05/17/15 at 15:16:36
 
Well, obviously I'm living the Dream. Look at my System in reply #203.
I am quite proud of it (as stated). 35 years in the making, since I started caring about how good music playback/involvement should be at age 16.

However, I so enjoy Steve's Amps....I still have my SE84CS with NOS Svetlana SV83's (purchased May/2001, #76 in Signature below). I owned and sold the Torii III & Super Zen CKC.

All six Decware Products purchased new. Two sold as stated. Three pending new purchase, starting with the new Mono's.....then the new Pre & ERRx.

I have been to Decfest in 2005 & 2008. If I could go every year.....I would be there every time!

My Modified Acoustic Zen Adagio's are so good....I canceled my ERRx order. I wanted them too, but a concussion and a Appendectomy out of pocket/portion expenses, set me back. However, I'm back on track with things I've sold to get the new Mono's.

I also have to add, I have my Jones on for the new Magnepan .7. Having them in my Room on the 4 ohm taps an switching to the 8 as well. Steve's a Maggie fan too. I think it is time I own a pair again as well.
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« Last Edit: 05/17/15 at 19:02:42 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #212 - 06/03/15 at 16:24:20
 
~Bump~

Having the choice of ZDSD to CSP3, or ZDSD direct to ZMA, 6C33C Mono's or SE84CS-will be as good as it can get (for me).

(+ my Yggdrasil coming in).

Realizing Steve, you're very busy with the UFO Mod's and Torii Junior release.....I wanted to express my continued interest and I'm sure others interest, in the Decware 6C33C Mono-blocks.




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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #213 - 06/03/15 at 20:37:04
 

I hate to say it, but those monoblocks are at the top of my list as well...even if I'm sweeping floors for Steve to pay for them.  :)

If he can pull of the Zen amp transparency, but with power in the teens.

SOLD!!


I need to invite myself over to his place and see how things are going.  :)
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #214 - 06/03/15 at 21:32:11
 
I asked Steve about the new Ultralinear: He said he's voicing it yet and there may be specs and prices in 30 days. I still think the Monos are going to be way pricey ... The ultralinear, if really resolving, may be the ticket for more affordable higher power, although I still have concerns about its transparency relative to the Torii, Rachael and even ZMA.

LR, I think you need to ask Steve over a couple beers for a ballpark date on those mono's and a hint at the ballpark price, too. It may be worth the wait in my case ... or not!
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« Last Edit: 06/03/15 at 21:34:15 by Fireblade »  

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #215 - 06/03/15 at 21:57:03
 

Unless he scraps it like the Torii V project, I think it will be worth the wait (and cost).  Everything about the design sounds awesome.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #216 - 06/03/15 at 22:59:57
 
Hi all

Just wanted to add support to fireblades' suggestion. Read someplace he was enjoying his organic beer, a couple of those, and find out if this monos will be an option for us waiting. I am contemplating if I should go for a Zen select or wait to know if the monos will be an alternative
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #217 - 06/04/15 at 12:44:00
 
I'm worried too, that the 6C33C's could get scraped, like the Torii V did.
Hoping they don't and the price of admission.....certainly wondering about as well?

6C33C Mono's, interest me like no other. I have what I need from my ZMA. I could walk away and never look back with this incredible Amp.
I have what I need from my SE84CS with NOS Svetlana SV83's.

Steve, giving me SE Triode with a Triode?!  .......should be heaven. Given his track record of SE Pentodes run in Triode.......I'm in.




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« Last Edit: 06/04/15 at 13:30:35 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #218 - 06/04/15 at 12:50:50
 
LR,

Well, it looks like you have been sent on an official forum mission, so don't forget to pick up those special brews from Wisconsin  ;)
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #219 - 06/04/15 at 13:36:05
 
Yeah, jorgen?! I should drive down to Peoria (only 7.5 hours from me), and bring some of my favorite to Steve!

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #220 - 06/04/15 at 13:59:49
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lk2Ot2YiLKc

Always fun to dig up whats out there........ .
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #221 - 06/05/15 at 07:39:49
 
Well wasn't aware of the distance, but one for the team?? Huh

And you are way closer to Peoria than I am.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #222 - 06/05/15 at 12:47:25
 
Jorgen,

I know you have a Mini Torii version 2. Could you give us some feedback on the 'Feedback adjustment' feature? Would you say it is worth having this mod performed on version 1 due to its sound benefits? Or do you think the benefits are really not improved sound quality but tone adjustment?

Thanks for any thoughts.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #223 - 06/06/15 at 10:35:39
 
Hi
I find this feature useful, and I would prefer to have that opportunity when I get my next amp, if possible. It have to be said though that I use streaming as source, that might increase the need to be able to adjust. I will get my TT soon, and maybe that changes things a little. I find Quality to be difficult to measure, but I like the variation offered by this feature, depending on recording, I can adjust presence of some qualities in each recording, depending on what I like, or what fits me ears.
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« Last Edit: 06/06/15 at 10:45:34 by jorgen »  
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #224 - 06/06/15 at 17:19:31
 
Jorgen,

I'll consider this decision some more, although I'm somewhat of a Purist when it comes to sound signal manipulation, meaning I prefer to open up the tone through the right tube complement choice rather than accepting the sound tradeoffs involved in reducing feedback from the original voicing. I may of course be wrong, and maybe I can get advantages out of this mod. I also stream my music from a Laptop via an external DAC.

Thanks so much for your valid points.
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« Last Edit: 06/06/15 at 17:20:06 by Fireblade »  

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #225 - 06/06/15 at 19:23:04
 
I can understand your motivation for keeping the signal as pure as possible. That's why I am curious what a turntable will offer. With a ZP3 there will be a whole lot less bits and pieces from source to driver.

I don't know if the feedback circuit will be in the signal path when not in use.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #226 - 06/06/15 at 22:09:43
 
With a TT you bypass all digital processing, so any distortions would be stemming only from the analog realm. The hard part is the hardware has to be really good to get good sound, which makes it much more expensive than digital, IMHO.

The feedback is fixed by the designer's voicing decision. The feedback adjustment overrides this decision and reduces it from about 6% (fixed by design in the Mini Torii) to anywhere between that and 0% feedback. The fixed design feedback is determined through voicing to obtain the best sound compromise, as the feedback trades off dynamics vs THD.

Consequently, I'm conceptually not inclined to any overriding of the optimal (fixed) feedback value, regardless of the enhancements in some of the sound characteristics, since it is actually creating higher levels of distortion.
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« Last Edit: 06/06/15 at 22:12:09 by Fireblade »  

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #227 - 06/07/15 at 20:34:45
 
I have an update regarding the 6C33C amplifiers.  

After listening to 14 different front end circuits, 9 different bias supply circuits, 2 different power supplies, a dozen different 6C33, EF86 tube combinations and literally melting a 150mA choke I have found what I was looking for...

To go into production the amp requires a sound that not only equals the fidelity of my other amps, but brings something unique to the sound that only it can offer.  It's a tall order, but I'm pleased to report that it's looking like it's going to happen.

Now I just continue listening to the final prototypes and see if the urge to change anything rears it's ugly head.  If not, and during the process of listening I'll start dreaming of the chassis design until I'm ready to draw it.



The amp uses a 650mA power supply per channel with separate heater supply and bias supply.  It consists of an EF86 wired in triode driving a triode wired SV83 (6P15P-EB) which drives the 6C33C finishing into a 600 ohm SE output transformer.  12WRMS into 8 ohm resistor, 22WRMS into 7 ohm speaker.

In the end, after everything was dialed in as perfect as was possible, it was still only equal in fidelity to our other amplifiers - the ZMA  and the UFO Zen Amp being the two reference points - However when you wire the 6C33C with only one of the two heaters and create a conjoined plate that runs both hot and cool on each respective side.  The result is high electron emission on the hot side which fades or graduates to low emission on the cool side.  The effect on the sound is fundamental and non-duplicatable with other tubes.  The price for this technique was 3WRMS into 8 ohm resistor - a cheep ticket to the moon.

So, there you have it.  Price will be largely determined by chassis design, but I'm seeing the pair come in around the ZMA price point or higher.

Steve
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #228 - 06/08/15 at 12:35:47
 
Excellent work as usual, Steve, congrats! Unfortunately, it will not be for me, given its high but I'm sure very fair price. I'll be on the fence for the Ultralinear, as this remains my only other choice before deciding to beef up my Mini Torii. Thanks!
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #229 - 06/08/15 at 15:54:08
 
Thanks Steve. I'm going to spend the rest of 2015 with my ZDSD and PCM Recordings. Plus, the Schiit Yggy......thru CSP3 & ZMA.

6C33C Mono's are definitely on my radar, 16 months from now, in Fall of 2016. Happy designing to you indeed!
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« Last Edit: 06/08/15 at 15:57:56 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #230 - 06/08/15 at 17:03:13
 

On my radar as well. I just have some other items to pay off first!

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #231 - 06/08/15 at 21:45:15
 
Even at that price I bet they are some of the best bang for the buck amplification out there.  But unfortunately I don't think I could pull off anything in the 4K range or higher as even Torii price range is a stretch for me ...

I'm bummed out, but at the same time happy to see them come into fruition and I know they will be awesome sounding! Cool
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #232 - 06/09/15 at 04:02:52
 
Hmm
My thinking at the moment: I can order a Select today if I want, for my second system in a smaller room upstairs. Or: Use my MT upstairs, it will be a very good system.. and save up for a while and have these monos in my living where I will keep playing music most of the time. It will be a pretty big stretch to afford them, and I guess a preamp is needed aswell ?..
Its very seldom i feel a need for more power, but you know, every now and then.., also the Select with my (ordered) custom alnico from Omega is getting rave reviews and probably I will never look back and regret buying that amp.

Find the monos very tempting though, and I can wait, I have music playing everyday through speakers and/or LCDs
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #233 - 06/09/15 at 12:55:00
 
Ha! Same predicaments here! I've thought about getting the Super Zen just for its incredible fidelity and resolution, but worry about lack of power. My Mini Torii is enough power for me and my listening conditions, but just enough. I was able to get some dynamic reserves by increasing the speakers' sensitivity and their impedance to 8 Ohms. Before that, the performance was kind of at the limits in terms of power and dynamics, especially with some passages in classical music.

So, I'm considering the upcoming Ultralinear's specs in about 1 month's time. In the meantime, I'll send the Mini Tori for mods anyway, I think, as it is a keeper and I want it to be its best.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #234 - 06/10/15 at 19:10:16
 
So I stopped by Decware on my way home from Peoria yesterday. Spent some time chatting with Steve, and gave a bit of a listen.

Steve was working on a JR. I really like the symmetry here.




And while we spoke, I heard good music coming from the other room. Nice, room filling music.





After a while, I sat down and Steve queued up some tapes. Which sounded good as always




So, I'm sure you're all wondering what I thought. Smiley

I have to preface this by saying the amp isn't done yet. Steve is letting it simmer - just using it, and seeing what happens, how he feels about it over time. He admits, that over time, the monos are really sinking teeth into him.

Also keep in mind, Steve builds these prototypes with "common parts" I'd call them. So this doesn't have UFO transformers, it doesn't have the choice caps, and I'm sure there are other little details that a production amp would have that a prototype wouldn't. Steve's thinking here is that if he can squeeze the best sound possible by really working the circuit, till it can go no further; then the UFO transformers and best Jupiter caps and even better layout would only elevate the amp.

Ok, so first things first. As Steve mentioned, the amp is just into the low 20 watts on an 8 ohm speaker. He has it playing through his white HR-1. And flat out, it does not sound like a little SET amp. It was big, and room filling, and had BIG bass. And this was at a casual listening level that you had to raise your voice to be heard over.  (We also eventually moved to the Monolith speakers)

As the listening progressed, he kept turning the dials up a little here and there (with me following behind and by ear adjusting the left/right levels!). We listened to several tapes, from modern blues, to Hendrix, to Madonna. I found absolutely nothing wrong with the amps.

But I also didn't hear a ZMA killer.

I told Steve this flat out. That's when he reminded me that it doesn't yet have the UFO or Jupiter caps and whatever else. Plus he pointed out the amps honesty. As we went from tape to tape, the true nature of each recording came through. No, I'm not talking super-micro-resolution or absolute transparency - just an honest reproduction of what it was given. Basically, this amp (to me) some of the ZMA's "just turn it on and don't worry about it" reliability of what was going to come out. This makes sense, because like I said...I found absolutely *nothing* wrong with these amps. I didn't feel like they were running out of steam, I didn't feel like they were lacking bass, or blurring mids, or damping high end...they just *were*.  I also noticed that they didn't sound like Zen amp. Or a typical Decware amp in general. You know how everything from the Zen to the Rachel to the Torii has some of the same DNA in them; they are Decware amps at heart.  I didn't hear that lineage with the monos - the tube and the circuit are different enough, that they are far off cousins. They do everything you expect from a Decware amp, but they don't have the core sound.  But they also aren't weird aliens from planet OTL either!

I told Steve - that to me, these amps need to keep everything he's got going on right now: the big (not boomie) bass, the SET sound that doesn't run out of steam, and the honesty that I absolutely hear in this amp....but he needs to have that transparency and resolution of the Zen amp. To this Steve nodded sagely, and turned to me with his impish grin and said "you'll have to come back in another month or so and give it another listen - we'll see if the circuit stays the same"


So there it is right now - IMHO, it's not a ZMA killer, but it's something special and right up there at the ZMA caliber. I really hope Steve has (at least) UFO  transformers  dropped in the next time I stop by. If that pulls that last bit of resolution that I was hoping to hear...DONE!

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« Last Edit: 06/10/15 at 19:13:26 by Lonely Raven »  
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #235 - 06/10/15 at 19:25:55
 
Cool. Thanks for sharing. I'm actually encouraged that it doesn't sound like other Decware amps. If I were to drop that kind of money on another amp, I'd want it to sound distinctly different.

Glad Steve seems to be happy with the results so far.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #236 - 06/10/15 at 20:25:10
 
Thanks Eric, great impression. Look forward to what you think in another month or so. Maybe, with UFO and/or Jupiter Caps, etc.... .
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #237 - 06/10/15 at 21:18:55
 
Nice summary, LR. Did you have a chance to learn anything about the Torii Junior (Ultralinear)? That would be my affordable (hopefully) other alternative and I'm sure one that will probably fit into many more budgets. Thanks!
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #238 - 06/10/15 at 21:46:56
 
Quote:
Nice summary, LR. Did you have a chance to learn anything about the Torii Junior (Ultralinear)? That would be my affordable (hopefully) other alternative and I'm sure one that will probably fit into many more budgets. Thanks!


Unfortunately no - that one in the first photo was the one I was hoping was built and ready for me to listen to. But it obviously wasn't that far built yet. I'll stop by in another month or six weeks or something, and see if Steve has made any changes to the Monos, and hopefully spend some time with JR.

After our last CDApS meet, where we had a nice lineup of Decware amps that we went through; I have a little better understanding (and appreciation) of what each amp does. And each one *does* something different or better than the others. I said this to Steve as well. I still love my Zen, but I keep running it out of steam (ProggRob's CKCS as well). If I could get that sound, scaled up in the high teens or early twenties - I'd be a very happy man, and that would rival, but not replace the ZMA. Steve  was pretty much like  well that's what I'm trying to do here with the monos.

I think Steve would agree - the ZMA is still the one to beat.

That said....

He has this old Zen on the wall in the shop - literally bolted to the wall, that he uses for testing or something. He kept saying "that turd on the wall there". LOL It was a Zen that just didn't sound right or something, a kick-around beater. Well, it has the new UFO transformers in it, and he flat out said "that turd on the wall there, is my new reference - right now I don't know what sounds better, that turd or the monos".

Boiled down - Steve is really happy with these UFO transformers. Changing his mindset has allowed him to take these amps up to another level.

Which of course brought me to asking if he could then do it for my ZMA - especially me being the detail freak that I am. And he said that he's not sure the guy who winds these (custom spec'd transformers) can even wind something that big!  Well Crap.  But then he alluded to that if the UFO uplifts everything he puts it into, he'd simply have to consider an upgraded spec transformer for the ZMA.

So, food for thought.  All I see are great amps all around, and I really like the idea of him being able to so easily make them better across the board.  
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« Last Edit: 06/10/15 at 21:49:06 by Lonely Raven »  
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stone_of_tone
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #239 - 06/10/15 at 23:24:56
 
Thanks LR, very insightful.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #240 - 06/11/15 at 00:03:54
 
LR,

Thanks for your inputs. It's all very exciting!

I'm personally amazed at how Steve can come up with designs that challenge all these preconceptions about true Triode tube SET's with Triode wiring, Push-Pull and now even Ultralinear designs that can compete at the same level. This, to me, is testament to his extraordinary design and prototyping skills.

Of course each amp has its own personality stemming from tube characteristics and how these are enhanced by clever, synergistic circuit design tweaks to accommodate the peculiar traits of the tube complements. This is part of the fun, I guess, both for Steve and us, possible in part due to all his technical knowledge, but mostly due to his great set of ears, experience and his willingness to voice things to the limit.

I'm hoping for an affordable Ultralinear design so I may be able to have two excellent flavors in my modest stable. I'm positive about beefing up the Mini, so that is a fact. I just want to wait a bit for  Ultralinear news and decide which one comes first. Steve spoke about 30 days down the road, so I can afford that wait while Yggy and the rest of the stuff gets here.

Toys, toys ...
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« Last Edit: 06/11/15 at 20:08:56 by Fireblade »  

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #241 - 06/11/15 at 04:03:15
 
It is exciting.

My SE84CS continues to deliver at 78db SPL. Pure magic.

It will be interesting to see if in a year from now the ZMA merits the UFO MOD, decided by Steve.

If the Mono's pan out to Steve's ideal; I will arrange a date to visit and bring my Speakers and Cables to hear them. Steve has my CSP3, ZMA and ZDSD on hand of course. I will bring my Transport, PS Audio P3 and Power Cables too. Probably, bring the Schiit "Yggy" Yggdrasil too....if it passes muster with me this July.

This would facilitate a few things. I get to hear his Reel to Reel. I would get to hear a "seasoned in Pair" of 6C33C Mono-blocks, with a whole lot more hours on them than I could put, with a 30 day audition with purchase. Plus, the gas and a two day stay at the Hampton Inn, would be half the cost of restocking + freight to and from (and a whole lot more fun to visit)!

An a big furthermore, I get to compare my modified Adagio's to a few pair of his Speaker's and hear the new Preamp with Volume Control. Love my CSP3, now so seasoned......hard to beat.

However, as LR wrote:
"I said this to Steve as well. I still love my Zen, but I keep running it out of steam (ProggRob's CKCS as well). If I could get that sound, scaled up in the high teens or early twenties - I'd be a very happy man, and that would rival, but not replace the ZMA. Steve  was pretty much like  well that's what I'm trying to do here with the monos".

If this does not happen.....and Steve does not release them. All is fine, when I have the Masterpiece, that is the Zen Mystery Amplifier. I too, will not be purchasing the potential 6C33C Mono's to replace my ZMA.   







Listening Room:
Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew
Sony as Transport (DVP-NS57P)/Sandwich weighted for Isolation
Illuminati D-60 Digital Coax IC

*************************************************
Decware DSD DAC / Recorder (@ -20 Ref Level @ 16/176.4)
Yggy coming! (Schiit Yggdrasil)
*************************************************

Kimber Select KS1030 IC RCA
Decware CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps (NOS/Platinum/Telefunken 6922/E88CC .....for Input Tube)
Kimber Select KS1030 IC RCA
Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier (NOS/Platinum/Matsushita/National PCC88/7DJ8.....in A12 an B12 Input Tube positions)
Kimber Select KS3033 Speaker Cable

Acoustic Zen Adagio - Black Pearl (Modified)

Acoustic Zen Adagio's x-over's Modified/Full Range with Mundorf MCap Supremes-single Cap to each Tweeter/4.5k cross
(Gutted: 3rd order Linkwitz/Riley's....with all crappy parts = gone)


XLO Pro Power Cords to CSP3 an ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3
(Transport, ZDSD an CSP3, Regenerated/118, 119 an 120v are used/Multiwave off...ZMA on HC Output)


Decware SE84CS (NOS Svetlana SV83's from 1980's-not the New Sensor knock-offs) ...when SE Pentodes run in Triode/Decware Style...needs to be in the System!
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« Last Edit: 06/11/15 at 17:22:05 by stone_of_tone »  

Sony as Transport
Illuminati D-60
Audio Alchemy DTI-Pro
Audio Magic Mystic Reference I2S
Audio Alchemy DDE 3.0
Kimber Select 1030
Zen Select #76
Kimber Select 3033
Polk Audio LS-90
Tri-config/TipToes & Vibropods underneath Speakers
360 degree Rm Treats
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #242 - 03/07/16 at 08:51:16
 
Does anybody know if anything is happening with these monoblocks?
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #243 - 03/10/16 at 04:56:01
 
I know what is happening with them...   Smiley

I am still in active R&D mode with them. The voicing is complete, the amps are spectacular sounding, competing with and depending on your taste besting everything in the Decware Line.  I am now working on a nixi tube bias meter that will show the bias of the output tubes in real time so I can see it clear across the room, and from even farther as they will change color and even blink when or if the bias drifts out of range. It's been quite a project and is about 50% complete with the circuit boards prototyped and the software written. Testing will begin late next week and the tweaking the software for however long it takes to feel natural and makes sense, a quality that completely escapes modern day young engineers.



The telling thing is that I have already decided I will have a pair for myself that are production models, vs. the ugly prototypes I presently listen to. So I have been working on the chassis design at the same time as this nixi tube current meter hoping everything could come together by fall of 2016. We'll see. I really don't care how long it takes, and I figure once I've built a pair for myself, if anyone wants a pair I'll be in a position to exactly duplicate them. Exact duplication is everything.

So yes things are progressing and if I get the chassis and the bias meters to work the way I want them to, I'll be able to offer them to the adventurous because you won't be able to buy them if you're a newbie to tubes. You'll have to have owned at least one Decware amplifier and have read and completely understood the owner's manual before you'll be allowed to buy a pair.
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« Last Edit: 03/10/16 at 04:58:43 by Steve Deckert »  
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #244 - 03/10/16 at 05:14:41
 
Here's a sketch of a possible chassis layout.  No guarantee it will stay this way... too soon to commit.  This particular design uses a glass chimney around the output tube with forced air flowing up and around the tube to keep the chassis at room temperature.  Presently the prototype is accomplishing this goal without a fan which is the ultimate goal.



So I'll keep you posted as always.

Cheers,

Steve
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #245 - 03/11/16 at 01:25:43
 
Wow Steve, this is quickly becoming my dream amp!  Is it using the UFO type transformers like the ones on the Torii Jr., etc.?
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #246 - 03/11/16 at 01:50:34
 
Give me the hole size for the tubes and I'll knock the plate out tomorrow morning! Will a water jetted cut give you a good enough finish? Lol
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #247 - 03/11/16 at 07:52:57
 
YOWZA!! I need another amp (or another pair of monoblocks) like I need another hole in my...well, you know...but these are mighty tempting. I'm afraid that when Steve quotes the price, I'll start trying to justify it.
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #248 - 03/11/16 at 09:08:12
 
Thanks to Steve for answering so quickly and with a lot of info. I guess i will want this amp aswell, and I have one amp from earlier, so i hope i will be allowed to buy one, if i find the money that is.. Im afraid it will be expensive. The good thing is the fact that i have the time to save up...

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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #249 - 07/10/16 at 23:18:10
 
What new projects are beings worked on (if any)?
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Decware ZTPRE, ZBIT, CSP3, SE84UFO, & SE84UFO2
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #250 - 07/12/16 at 04:33:26
 
I guess it's a good time to post another update... and again let me qualify what follows by stating that this is not a race to release a new product design but rather a real time view of what goes into a Decware amplifier before it's even considered for market.  As with all of our amps, they start out life as something I want to build and do build for myself. If you're new to the forums and this kind of thing sounds interesting, a similar thread can be found on the Zen Mystery Amp which gives a real time look into the process from concept to completion.

So, on with the update:

Have been listening to the Mono's against the other amps non-stop since my last post in an effort to gain perspective on the signature and gain confidence in the functionality and reliability.  All is going well.

I have done more design work on the chassis which can be seen in the pics below:





As you can see it is morphing into the same steel chassis design that I used in the ZTPRE.  A rather huge upgrade visually and it solved my cooling problem allowing the amp to remain fan-less.

What you're looking at from front to back is:  Analog bias meter, nixi-tube bias meter, EF86 triode wired, 6P15P aka SV83, and then the 6C33C inside the glass chimney followed by the output transformer.  I'd like to complete the chassis design this winter.  





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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #251 - 07/13/16 at 20:05:16
 
Hey Steve,

I'm not seeing volume control on the new monoblocks. Is that part of the design, or are you still working on that?
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #252 - 07/13/16 at 21:55:16
 
Thanks for sharing Steve!  I really dig the look and the match with the ZTPRE chassis is spot on and sexy! Cool  

Couple questions ...

1. Are these going to have UFO's or custom wound transformers (like the ZMA)?

2. Are these going to have volume controls or additional inputs or are these strictly amps at this point?

3. How much heat are we talking about?  I live in San Diego and have to sleep with my windows open even in winter time, I'm just wondering if I'm going to have to be running my AC year around ... Wink
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« Last Edit: 07/13/16 at 21:59:28 by beowulf »  
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Re: Steve/Decware & Company.....Developments?
Reply #253 - 04/08/17 at 15:59:42
 
Any update on the status release of the 6C33C blocks?
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Chain in order: TD124 mki, Denon 103R, Ortofon RS-309D, zu silver phono cable, ZMC1, Audio Art RCA, ZP3, vintage RCA 5U4G Rectifier, Gold lion signal tubes, DW silver reference, Xhadow, Bridged UFO2's, gold lion 6922, mapleshade double helix plus, zu Druid v's