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Impedance Switch (Read 7821 times)
roggae
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Impedance Switch
06/20/14 at 23:26:32
 
so i have read a few things about Impedance but i'm still really confused.  what is the optimal setting i want to use on my amp if i am using zu audio Omens as my speakers?  they are 12 ohms.  my amp is wired for 8-16 ohms.  
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mark58
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Re: Impedance Switch
Reply #1 - 06/20/14 at 23:51:49
 
I'm no technical expert but I know one of the two choices will sound better...more dynamic.  Since your speakers are right in between, I doubt their is a right answer.  Your ears will have to tell you which is right for you.  Mark.
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"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils;
The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted." William Shakespeare
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Lord Soth
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Re: Impedance Switch
Reply #2 - 06/21/14 at 03:33:49
 
Mark is right.

Just go ahead and experiment to see which setting your prefer.

Based on my own practical experience, a couple of ohms difference either way is still safe for your audio equipment.

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roggae
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Re: Impedance Switch
Reply #3 - 06/21/14 at 22:28:01
 
so the difference i'll notice is in dynamics?
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Lord Soth
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Re: Impedance Switch
Reply #4 - 06/22/14 at 06:32:08
 
At one of the settings, the bass will be tighter .

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roggae
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Re: Impedance Switch
Reply #5 - 06/26/14 at 14:23:52
 
think i got it figured out.  i have the impedance switch set for the lower ohms and the bass switches off.  now my question is about the treble adjustments.  which way is off?  also the Reconstructive Feedback Switch - is this ONLY to remedy whistling or does this affect the sound as well?  it's hard for me to tell...thanks for your info guys.
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mark58
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Re: Impedance Switch
Reply #6 - 06/26/14 at 17:24:52
 
Ro, the treble adjustment is only +/- 3dB and, like you, I have a hard time telling a difference.  I also wasn't sure how the control worked but somewhere I read that counterclockwise turns down the treble and clockwise turns it up. Straight up is neutral.  I keep mine all the way down...counterclockwise and wish I could cut it more than 3dB...maybe a +/- 10 dB control.  Lon,  what is the # of dB cut of the treble on the MK III?

The reconstructive feedback switch when on with some speakers causes whistling...not on any of mine.  I keep this feature off.  Go read the owners manual on the MK IV...I think Steve addresses all of the controls there. Anyway, hope this helps. Mark.
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« Last Edit: 06/26/14 at 17:29:48 by mark58 »  

"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils;
The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted." William Shakespeare
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Lon
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Re: Impedance Switch
Reply #7 - 06/26/14 at 17:51:49
 
Mark I don't know what the teble cut is, but I think it's more comprehensive than the Mk IV--you can I think completely remove the treble.
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roggae
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Re: Impedance Switch
Reply #8 - 06/27/14 at 15:35:20
 
what is the reconstructive feedback switch supposed to do though?
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mark58
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Re: Impedance Switch
Reply #9 - 06/27/14 at 15:57:27
 
Ro,  I haven't messed with this control much.  I have turned it on and listened for a few minutes then turned it off.  I think it's supposed to change the sound stage...make it deeper/wider? Below is what's written in the manual...it doesn't tell us what it does though.  Mark.

"Reconstructive Feedback Switch - Whistling Sound
This switch can be operated “on the fly” to turn on or off the reconstructive (positive) feedback. A rare feature to have on any amplifier because it is so difficult to define a window of stability that works on everyone’s speakers. Therefore, we do not claim this feature will work with everyone’s speakers. You’ll know if this feature is compatible with your speakers if you don’t hear the amp start to whistle when the switch is ON.
The reconstructive feedback switch has an ON and OFF. When facing the front of the amplifier, reaching over it and flipping the switch towards the back of the amplifier is ON, while the switch pointing towards the front of the amplifier is OFF. It is important to keep this switch off any time speakers are disconnected as damage could occur.
If you hear the amplifier start to whistle, turn the reconstructive feedback switch OFF until the cause has been corrected. While we don’t anticipate many if any speaker incompatibilities, if you have a pair of speakers that are not compatible with this feature just contact us and we can discuss one of several possible solutions."

http://www.decware.com/newsite/TORIIMK4.pdf
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"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils;
The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted." William Shakespeare
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Lord Soth
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Re: Impedance Switch
Reply #10 - 06/27/14 at 17:34:32
 
My experience with the reconstructive feedback switch is that it expands the soundstage.
The sound is more diffused with less weight and punch.

Like Mark, I prefer to leave it turned off.

For the Treble cut off switch, I leave mine in the neutral middle position.
In my set-up, activating this switch ( turned clockwise) seems to sweeten the highs.
This is something which I like in my set-up.

Don't be afraid to experiment!
There is no absolute right or wrong setting for the Torii Mk4.
Nobody has the exact same audio chain, so these switches allow amp owners to tweak the sound to their liking.
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« Last Edit: 06/27/14 at 17:35:00 by Lord Soth »  
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roggae
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Re: Impedance Switch
Reply #11 - 06/27/14 at 19:55:04
 
thanks guys!
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roggae
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Re: Impedance Switch
Reply #12 - 06/27/14 at 23:00:43
 
so i think i got it dialed in.  good looking out folks!
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will
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Re: Impedance Switch
Reply #13 - 06/27/14 at 23:32:56
 
I agree with all that the adjustments are about adjusting to room, system and tastes. I run mine with the treble knob higher (clockwise) than straight up most of the time, depends on the tubes. The bass switch I like off, mostly because I like how the mids are richer. With the Tungsol KT66 I like the impedance switch at 4 ohms (back), but this is my speaker rating too. With bassier power tubes I have liked it at the eight ohm setting. I did not like the Reconstructive Feedback for quite a while of the burnin finding it too diffused, lacking focus. This really changed at some point. The focus came in in a very musical way but also a really nice dose of spacial information and more complex edges. The soundstage is quite saturated while micro detail is more of the balance, more air, textures, and showing more of the space around each player as well as wider room ambient information. I can't recall how many hours it took for this to happen, but it was a pleasant surprise! I find it a little hard without it now. Actually, this has become a highlight of the amp in my system and room!
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« Last Edit: 06/27/14 at 23:34:51 by will »  

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roggae
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Re: Impedance Switch
Reply #14 - 07/07/14 at 22:34:04
 
it seems like at lower volumes the RFS really makes the amp less weighty and have less punch.  anyone else find this?
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Lord Soth
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Re: Impedance Switch
Reply #15 - 07/12/14 at 03:48:42
 
Hi Roggae,

My amp has the stepped attenuator .

In my setup, the max volume I run the amp is at the halfway point, 10 out of 20 clicks.

In such a situation, the RFS setting makes the sound diffused.
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roggae
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Re: Impedance Switch
Reply #16 - 10/17/14 at 23:10:14
 
so i've got a new room.  new house actually.  its a 15'x25' room with wood floors and a 107" bay window.  lots of reflection.  i'm playing with room treatments but also the RFS.  what is this thing supposed to do anyway???
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will
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Re: Impedance Switch
Reply #17 - 10/18/14 at 06:47:17
 
I don't know what Reconstructive Feedback does technically, but I can say what I hear in this room. This system/room, once adjusted, has great frequency balance and a live character. It has excellent complex detail throughout, with rich, tight bass that you feel, to very nice ambient information. It reveals pretty much everything and with a good soundstage.

I had not noticed this before since all the tube sets I have used have had very good complete, textural highs, and a nice openness. This is partly from my general preference for OB3s over OA3s, giving less density and more clean space to the sound. Now, with green (about 35 hours) Valve Art 350Bs in, they sounded too rigid and cool at first, so I replaced the quite open Ultron 6BQ7As with warmer RTC/Mullard E188CCs in the power positions of the CSP3 to richen things up. This has given me a very good sound for burning in the new power tubes.

When I checked it today, the effect from reconstructive feedback was there, but more subtle than I had previously heard. This is the first I have noticed the circuit depending this much on tubes. The 350Bs, having become more complex, smoother, and warmer I put the Ultrons back in the CSP. This opened and clarified things enough that the Reconstructive Feedback circuit became what I was accustomed to...a much more notable difference on and off.

Similarly, with the circuit depending on complex detail being there to begin via gear, cables, tubes, room, etc...also recordings with more openness, detail and ambience show it more. Either way it is relatively subtle in some ways, but really kind of big in others in terms of the overall feel of the music.
 
Also, if I recall correctly, it was around 350-400 hours before I started to really like it. For a long time I kept it switched off, preferring the more focused sound. But finally burnin made its previously too diffuse sound tighter, clearer, and quite tasteful in my system. Now it stays on.

The recordings with a good soundstage here are generally similarly saturated both ways, wide and deep, but the sound with reconstructive feedback is different, increasing subtle information. From note hits to fading trails, it feels sort of like it takes bits of information and divides them into more, smaller bits. The increased senses of fine detail and resolution make tones and edges smoother, more liquid and more complex at the same time. It shows best in edges, in air, and in ambience close to the instruments, and beyond, but I think is throughout. The space between and around the instruments is richer in ambient information giving a nice atmospheric quality. It also helps recording ambience seamlessly integrate with my room ambience.

Finally, I have not fully explored this, but I have noticed a number of times that reconstructive feedback can give mixes with less focus on soundstage more soundstage spaciousness and definition in this system.
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« Last Edit: 10/18/14 at 16:47:41 by will »  

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will
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Re: Impedance Switch
Reply #18 - 10/18/14 at 22:23:12
 
This is from the last page of the MKIV manual:

"The feedback switch works the opposite of
negative feedback which smears the sound. The phase angle of the
amplifier is reduced when this switch is turned on giving you even
more transparency. This is of course again TABOO territory from a
circuit perspective, but that’s why it sounds so good. The music
becomes more animated, more like it really was when recorded."
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roggae
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Re: Impedance Switch
Reply #19 - 10/20/14 at 22:54:28
 
how do we experience negative feedback as the listener?

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