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Change of Sonic Preference (Read 767 times)
Brian
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Change of Sonic Preference
06/13/14 at 03:05:17
 
Is Humanity currently undergoing a shift in our audio psychiatry from a previous preference for single end soft sound, to now liking push-pull's more crisp sound?

I ask this because when I first came to the internet, single end triode ruled the roost. Now the more lively sounding single end pentode, and push-pull, are becoming what I seem to see at every turn. A similar shift from cathode bias to the firmer sounding grid bias seems also to be occurring.  
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beowulf
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Re: Change of Sonic Preference
Reply #1 - 06/15/14 at 20:47:22
 
I'm not so sure about that.  I don't think even order harmonics of S.E.T. can be beat, there's something addictive when listening to an amp that has them.  Luckily Steve's amps have the best of both worlds, as even his higher wattage P/P amps preserve the even order harmonics  of SETs while giving the spank of P/P ... they're the best of both worlds if you think about it and I've never heard of anyone doing it until I saw the specs of Steve's amps.

If you scroll towards the bottom of the page for the Torii, you can see the graphs and explainations of it.

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will
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Re: Change of Sonic Preference
Reply #2 - 06/15/14 at 22:19:06
 
I think you are on it Beowulf. Steve has bridged the best of the two in a way, but perhaps more than that, he has followed his long held dream and long experiential research into creating something new...He is completing the development of the SE qualities of open liquidity and transparency by bringing in increased power and more dynamic guts. I think his pursuit of the best possible musical presentation has taken him there, and the names don't really matter anymore. I was in love with SE, but after joining the Torii world, I can't go back, at least not with my 944s or HR-1s.

I would love to hear the low power amps with more efficient single drivers. Also, in this room, switching from the SE34I.2 to the Torii MKIII did create serious bass issues that were a lot of work to tame.
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« Last Edit: 06/15/14 at 22:28:55 by will »  

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beowulf
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Re: Change of Sonic Preference
Reply #3 - 06/16/14 at 00:33:07
 
Ahhh, HR-1s and Torii MKIII = my dream system.  OK, so I'm coveting your system a little Grin

But right now though I have some audio bliss with my less expensive Taboo MKII and Omega single driver RS7s.  I if I was to move in any other direction (that I could reasonably afford) I would either do 2 Super Zens set up as mono blocks (I've always wanted to own that 2 watt'r)  or a previous model Torii MKIII (such as yours).
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will
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Re: Change of Sonic Preference
Reply #4 - 06/16/14 at 05:31:45
 
Funny, I think sometimes of making some Audio Nirvana high-efficiency, single driver speakers and a low wattage amp! But I would try them first with a Torii! Amazingly, I have three now. I bought Lin's Blue Torii from the forum. Great amp, and no bass issues so far! But with the big Torii's, the way I have them tuned, and with room treatment, and precision EQ, hard to imagine better! They are all great flavors of the same stream of consciousness.
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« Last Edit: 06/16/14 at 05:32:43 by will »  

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Lonely Raven
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Re: Change of Sonic Preference
Reply #5 - 06/16/14 at 16:42:34
 

Damn, if I had three Torii, I'd be using them for a surround sound setup - right from the processor to the amps.

My ZMA just kills the new Denon surround sound receiver I just got...makes me want to return the receiver and seek out a couple Torii instead!
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Lon
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Re: Change of Sonic Preference
Reply #6 - 06/16/14 at 16:54:31
 
I have three Toriis. . . but I hate the sound of surround sound. YUK! Two channel Torii with ERR or HR-1 speakers is much better sound to me.
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« Last Edit: 06/16/14 at 16:56:17 by Lon »  

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beowulf
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Re: Change of Sonic Preference
Reply #7 - 06/16/14 at 17:20:30
 
You could always go with:

(3) Zen Torii Monos paired up with (3) HR-1s for the Front Left/Center/Right Channels, and
(1) Torii MK IV paired up with (2) DM945s for the Rear Surrounds.

and of course the Oppo BDP-105.

This would be one kick ass (and purist with only the Oppo in there) surround system!

Of course if you wanted one of the best room correction software programs you could instead get a McIntosh MX151 with RoomPerfect made by Lyngdorf Audio!  Which also supposedly has a kick ass DAC in it.
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« Last Edit: 06/16/14 at 17:27:05 by beowulf »  
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will
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Re: Change of Sonic Preference
Reply #8 - 06/16/14 at 19:06:11
 
LR, I am sure the Torii addition to your surround system would be amazing. Wouldn't it be cool to find a couple blue Toriis inexpensively. I think Steve said there were only about 20 made, but they come up now and then.

Beowulf, I always enjoy your posts for pointers. Though I am not looking for DACs or stuff rather than Decware these days (highly satisfied) I enjoy reading about what you are interested in. You are such a determined and careful researcher!

I too enjoy my 2 channel for movies just fine, enough to avoid the complication of surround gear. I need one amp in the workplace, one in the house, and one for backup!@#$%^&..... I have been wanting a Blue Torii for a long time, just waiting for the right one.... Then came the MKIV and the MKIII became my good amp for the second system and backup. No regrets on the MKIV, but it made getting the blue Torii less critical. Finally the attraction overwhelmed reason and I find I use the 2nd system more often than I thought I would and more every week.... Some day I will put the MKIII back in the main system to compare. No hurry there though. I am really amazed at what the MkIV does, especially after 600 or so hours.
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stone_of_tone
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Re: Change of Sonic Preference
Reply #9 - 06/16/14 at 21:08:49
 
Yes, Surround Sound Sucks....not worth anybody's time... .  :o

You could not have put it better Will: "He (Steve) is completing the development of the SE qualities of open liquidity and transparency by bringing in increased power and more dynamic guts".

I'm buying the Torii 4 this Fall...so I have it all Winter to compare to my ZMA, SE84CS/Original Svetlana SV83's an Super Zen CKC...with an without my CSP3  8-). The comparison will be for fun....it won't ever be sold.  I know - I know another burn in....but worth every hour of the Transformation.  
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« Last Edit: 06/16/14 at 21:15:42 by stone_of_tone »  

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beowulf
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Re: Change of Sonic Preference
Reply #10 - 06/16/14 at 21:51:08
 
@ will, lon and stone ...

I agree as well in regards to 2 channel (or in my case 2.1 channel) home theater.  I had a couple decent surround sound setups.  One was a B&K Components Reference Prepro and 7 channel (125 watts per channel) Class A MOSFET amp driving Vienna Acoustic speakers/sub and then I also tried out a Pioneer Elite Reciever with the famously touted (and underwhelming) Class D ICE Amps by Bang & Olufson.  BTW the B&K MOSFET was much better and I regretted getting the Class D Pioneer.

But in both regards I feel that my movie watching has improved considerably with just my Taboo, Single Driver Omegas and C220 preamp to an extent that I doubt I will ever go with another surround sound system again (well now if I hit the lotto, I would probably be knocking on Steve's door to get a 5.1 system using all Torii Mono Blocks, HR-1s and the Zen 6 Channel Preamp, but that would be just to blow money, not because I think its neccessary to enjoy movies that way Grin).

Anyways, with just JRiver and my DAC, I can phantom channel a whole 5.1 setup with just my 2.1 setup, but I still prefer playback with only 2.1 channels.  I'm unsure if I can exactly pinpoint why I like it better, perhaps the speed of the single drivers combined with the natural sounding Taboo amplification and simplicity of it all, but I just don't don't feel surround is needed or that I'm missing anything.
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will
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Re: Change of Sonic Preference
Reply #11 - 06/17/14 at 22:30:50
 
Stone,

I am working on writing my impressions of the MKIV. I sounds really, really good here. But this is after adjusting the system with room, tubes, cables, feet...the lot...even EQ based on measurements. The EQ is associated with my player software (PureMusic), and acting directly on the error free files as they pass from the drive to the DAC. This is a phenomenally transparent  tool for sorting fine room adjustments to taste.  I got into this with the MKIII with its too deep, darkish bass in this room. Then carried on with the MKIV. That said, this MKIV is off the charts in my room! The reconstructive feedback circuit is really amazing with my Tranquility DAC. The inner detail and other fine detail expressions are so beautiful.
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« Last Edit: 06/17/14 at 22:37:47 by will »  

Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-7, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5 and Shunyata Defender, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab isocups and tube dampers...
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Mark
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Re: Change of Sonic Preference
Reply #12 - 07/04/14 at 00:42:08
 
I've been playing and listening to music critically for nigh 60 yrs., and the Decware Zen Triode hits the spot for me... 'Nuff said... (m.)
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If a rabbit defined intelligence the way man does, then the most intelligent animal would be a rabbit, followed by the animal most willing to obey the commands of a rabbit. -Robert Brault, writer (b. 1938)
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DirtDawg
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Re: Change of Sonic Preference
Reply #13 - 07/10/14 at 01:45:39
 
I think for me, it depends on how much space I have to fill with my preferred sound.

If I am just enjoying my music for my own benefit or that of a small few drinking buddies, then my three SB84Cs do fine, but shaking the floor means another approach. Shaking the floor is another story.

Party time means we set aside a few details and just party.

As far as going for maximum detail in close listening, I am not so sure that I am capable, anymore.

While my preferences have evolved, as I have matured,  I doubt that you could actually call it a change.




















Re: Change of Sonic Preference
Reply #12 - 07/03/14 at 19:42:08   I've been playing and listening to music critically for nigh 60 yrs., and the Decware Zen Triode hits the spot for me... 'Nuff said... (m.)







Yeah, this is my idea, as well.
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« Last Edit: 07/10/14 at 01:47:03 by DirtDawg »  
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