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Tube Rolling 12au7, 12ax7 (Read 2192 times)
P K
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Re: Tube Rolling 12au7, 12ax7
Reply #15 - 06/22/14 at 17:26:50
 
Mark,

I made a mistake in my post.

My ZP3 is using a pair of NOS ribbed plates "12AX7" tubes with good results.

The 12AU7 tube is a RCA NOS (a $20.00 tube), again with good results.

My preamp is an Aesthetix Calypso Signature, I am using the GE 5751 blackplate triple mica tubes in the 12AX7 slot and Amperex SQ 6922 tubes.

My tweeter amp is a Mini Torii using a pair Amperex 7316 Holland Ct1-delta 9C in the 12AU7 slot and new production Valve Art 350B in the 6V6GT slot.
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« Last Edit: 06/22/14 at 17:27:51 by P K »  
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mark58
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Re: Tube Rolling 12au7, 12ax7
Reply #16 - 06/22/14 at 18:06:39
 
Peter, your gear is very different than mine so what you are hearing may be quite different but I think generalizations should still apply. I like Black Plate 12AU7 and 12AX7 tubes...to me they seem warmer and richer in character... smooth and detailed. I tallied up what I've spent on the 5157's I've bought recently...I was a little shocked...hehe. Except for another pair of the Sylvania 5751s at a great price, I think I'm done buying tubes to roll in the ZP3. I do plan on trying a mid fifties RCA 5U4G in place of the RCA 5Y3G in there currently. Also I'll try a 1960 Tung Sol OA3 instead of a 50's RCA OA3 currently in place.

In regards to the Telfunken ribbed plate 12AX7...this is what Joe had to say...again his descriptions of the teles has discouraged me from trying them.

"Telefunken 12AX7 ribbed plates - a typical soft, unfocused 12AX7 sound with big, soft, images allied with a bright bass shy character. I was shocked when I heard these guys first hand, but the more I talked to people who knew these tubes the better I understood them. I generally associate NOS tubes with a warmer, more harmonically complex & rich sound than current production, but light and airy is the order of the day here - to the pint of brightness. The secret is that these guys are a favorite for use in a lot of old classic gear from the '50s & '60s where the transformers, wire and caps used were thick, dull sounding sonic sludge. The bright balance of this tube is great complement for this kind of gear, but drop it into current broad bandwidth tube gear (like the Thor) and you might just get sonic hell - all for just $50 to $65 a tube!"

Your original post last night has me reading through the ZP3 thread. has anyone else reading this used 5751's in the ZP3? If so I'd like your impressions. Next I'll concentrate a little on input tubes...so far I've tried the stock Russian tubes, Amperex 7308's and Amperex Bugle Boy 6DJ8's...all sound different but good. PK any favorite 6922 tube types? Keep on Rolling fellas, Mark.
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« Last Edit: 06/22/14 at 18:09:04 by mark58 »  
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mark58
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Re: Tube Rolling 12au7, 12ax7
Reply #17 - 06/22/14 at 22:37:09
 
Peter, you don't have to try a GE Blk Pl Triple Mica 5814A...I just bought two for $35 including S&H.  I suspect they'll be similar to the RCAs, which would be good because they are much cheaper.  I'll let you know how they sound.  Mark.
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P K
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Re: Tube Rolling 12au7, 12ax7
Reply #18 - 06/28/14 at 17:15:22
 
I learned the following from Steve Deckart of Decware about the tubes for the ZP3,

The first tube slot at the front in the most important tube, it is the input tube running in stereo from one tube (I am using either a GE Triple Mica Blackplate 5751 or a Tele 12ax7 ribbed plate).

The second slot for the 12ax7 tube is the output tube. This tube does NOT need to match the input tube, it may be an entirely different brand (this will drive me a little crazy, because I like to tube roll, and I have a bunch of single 12ax7 tubes sitting around).

I have found that each old stock mystery 12ax7 tube from my tube stash has a different sound.  I am in the process of picking the one with the lowest distortion while providing great sound.

The third slot for a 12au7 is a tube buffer and must be a 12au7 or equivalent like a 5814a . I am using a RCA Triple Mica Blackplate 5814a and a NOS Mullard Blackburn Factory branded Valvo in this slot.

     
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« Last Edit: 06/28/14 at 17:17:42 by P K »  
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P K
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Re: Tube Rolling 12au7, 12ax7
Reply #19 - 06/28/14 at 18:15:19
 
It looks like at the end of my testing it is NOS 12ax7 Teles at both the first 12az7 slot and the second 12ax7 slot.
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P K
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Re: Tube Rolling 12au7, 12ax7
Reply #20 - 09/01/14 at 12:37:49
 
I found a better 12au7.

Thanks to Brent Jessee.

It is a 12au7 Mazda greyplate, 1960s, made in France

From Brent Jessee:

New old stock, original and white Box. Grey plates, very similar to the very rare Mazda silver plate tubes. These are also hard to find in the USA. Excellent, 1960s vintage long lived 12AU7 types with the distinct European vintage flavor that a modern tube just cannot capture! These have the sweetness and dynamic punch typical of Mazda


Try tube rolling the 12au7, it makes a big difference in the sound.

My result:

Higher resolution and detail

Bass punch (a big difference)

Livelier
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P K
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Re: Tube Rolling 12au7, 12ax7
Reply #21 - 09/07/14 at 18:09:51
 
My Current Favorites (after a lot of tube rolling):

12ax7 (first slot from front, input tube): NOS Baldwin shiny blackplate made by Ratheyon (organ tube) from Brent Jessee for $50.00.

New Old Stock in whiteboxes. These are the genuine 1950s vintage Raytheon shiny blackplates. For a short time we have a very limited special LOW PRICE on these rare tubes made for organs, some OEM repair stock with no labels. Nothing like these are likely to ever be made again, and these have the added advantage of being factory screened for use in organ audio circuits. These beauties rival the vintage European 12AX7s, and are the best bang for the buck going in a vintage USA made.



12ax7 (middle tube or second from front, for RIAA curve): NOS Telefunken from my stash



12au7 (third from front, tube buffer): NOS Mazda (French) Grey Plate (1960's) from Brent Jessee for $80.00

New old stock, original and white Box. Grey plates, very similar to the very rare Mazda silver plate tubes. These are also hard to find in the USA. Excellent, 1960s vintage long lived 12AU7 types with the distinct European vintage flavor that a modern tube just cannot capture! These have the sweetness and dynamic punch typical of Mazda
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metropolis7
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Re: Tube Rolling 12au7, 12ax7
Reply #22 - 10/26/14 at 23:30:14
 
Anyone use a Mullard 12ax7 in the first slot? Thoughts?
I'm looking for more magic in the midrange.
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marky
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Re: Tube Rolling 12au7, 12ax7
Reply #23 - 10/27/14 at 10:51:48
 
lol, I`ve got 45mins left to run on a bid for a 1965 Mullard 12ax7 for that no1 slot on the ZP3. Highest bid at the moment (18) and I`ll go a little more. So I could give some comments this evening.

oops, getting a bit carried away. It`ll be a few days ......delivery times.
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« Last Edit: 10/27/14 at 10:55:48 by marky »  

Decware: Rachaels x 2 bridged, CSP2+, ZP3, ZMC1, DSC i/c`s, DHC-1 pw/cbl`s. Roksan Radius/Nima/high def cabl & M.Benz LP s , Rega P3,RB300 (silver Litz), Rega wall mount, DV 20XL, Nakamichi LX5, M/L aeon i`s, Townshend Isolda sp/cbl`s, Isotek mains sub
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JD
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Re: Tube Rolling 12au7, 12ax7
Reply #24 - 10/27/14 at 12:47:05
 
I am running nos mullard 12ax7 cv4004's in the first and second slot with another nos mullard 12au7 in the last spot.  They are tremendous but have also skyrocketed in price in the 2 yrs I've owned them.  I also enjoyed NOS Mazda's and a Radiotechnique in the 12au7 role but didn't give em enough time to break in.

JD
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Lon
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Re: Tube Rolling 12au7, 12ax7
Reply #25 - 10/27/14 at 15:08:12
 
In the past I've used a Mullard in all three spots, all pulled from my '59 EICO HF81. These tubes have lots of use and are probably not at their best. The sound was far too thick and rich with these in place, great for some ops but in general not the best fit. I've been using Raytheons in all positions with great success. Steve sent one with the amp and I bought two others from tgarden.
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« Last Edit: 10/27/14 at 15:08:39 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DVD-A1UDCI, Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Stradivarius, Ultra Linear+Evo ICs, Iso-Pods,Mapleshade:Double Heiix Plus,Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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marky
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Re: Tube Rolling 12au7, 12ax7
Reply #26 - 10/27/14 at 21:12:06
 
Well I won the Mullard, so looking forward to it`s arrival. The other day I bought another 12ax7 on e-bay, it`s all marked up in military print, like a Brimar I have. The seller says origin unknown, maybe Chinese, excellent sonics. He`s sold 900 nearly and has loads more. If it`s any good I`ll get some more. Dirt cheap.
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Decware: Rachaels x 2 bridged, CSP2+, ZP3, ZMC1, DSC i/c`s, DHC-1 pw/cbl`s. Roksan Radius/Nima/high def cabl & M.Benz LP s , Rega P3,RB300 (silver Litz), Rega wall mount, DV 20XL, Nakamichi LX5, M/L aeon i`s, Townshend Isolda sp/cbl`s, Isotek mains sub
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P K
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Re: Tube Rolling 12au7, 12ax7
Reply #27 - 10/27/14 at 23:29:20
 
My final tube selection for the ZP3 (after way too much tube rolling, i have now gone "Cold Turkey").

12ax7 Tube Input (front spot): NOS RAYTHEON BLACKPLATE ORGAN STOCK-BALDWIN ($50.00 from Brent Jessee)

12ax7 Tube RIAA (middle spot): NOS Telefunken (from stash)

12au7 Tube Buffer (Third spot, closest to the back (transformer): NOS  MAZDA 1960'S (From Brent Jessee).


Brent Jessee is a pleasure to deal with, he allowed me to try various tubes until I found the best, Hammond and the Mazda are amazing tubes

Brent provides a 30 day return privileged on Tubes!!!!!!!

Also I upgraded to a NOS RCA 5U4G Coke Bottle (Brent Jessee) and a Green Label on Base Coke Bottle Sylvania NOS OA3 (upgrade for OA3 from Decware).

Mazda 12au7 info;

New old stock, original and white Box. Grey plates, very similar to the very rare Mazda silver plate tubes. These are also hard to find in the USA. Excellent, 1960s vintage long lived 12AU7 types with the distinct European vintage flavor that a modern tube just cannot capture! These have the sweetness and dynamic punch typical of Mazda.
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attym
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Re: Tube Rolling 12au7, 12ax7
Reply #28 - 11/19/14 at 16:41:57
 
Has anyone compared a double mica RCA 5814A to the triple mica in the 12au7 spot?

My go to has been the RCA Long Blackplate and am looking to see if one of these betters even that.
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Acetone
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Re: Tube Rolling 12au7, 12ax7
Reply #29 - 11/19/14 at 22:22:46
 
A lot of good tube options here, so thank you all.  My ZP3 will be arriving in 2-3 weeks. I've ordered from B-Jessee nos 12AU7 cleartop rca rebranded for Conn organ & nos 5Y3GT 50's rca.  Gonna let ZP3 cook for 2 or 3 weeks before I roll in nos tubes. I also have some 0A3 RCA 1951' to try as well as some rectifiers bought for my superzen that I will experiment with as well.  Will let everyone know my findings/ liking's once this long process is finished....ahh now I need some patience!
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