Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
Decware Audio Forums
10/25/14 at 04:32:12


Pages: 1 2 3 4 
Send Topic Print
Welcome to the Mystery Amp Support Forum! (Read 3518 times)
stone_of_tone
Seasoned Member
****


Listen Often/Listen
Deep

Posts: 859
Re: Welcome to the Mystery Amp Support Forum!
Reply #30 - 07/28/14 at 21:34:28
 
I added a Kimber Select 1030 RCA IC coming from my DAC to CSP3. I already have a Select 1030 going from CSP3 to ZMA. I had a Kimber Silver Streak from DAC to Pre. It does an admirable job...but, can't do what the Select 1030 can do in holographic fidelity. ZMA then runs Kimber Select 3035.

I write this for high end Lurkers with good digital front ends and premium cables...like Kimber Select or Kubala Sosna. You can't go wrong purchasing the CSP3 an ZMA (both pieces with Steve's premium Caps). Go ahead, bring both in your Listening Room....an Listen.
Back to top
 
 

Sony as Transport
Illuminati D-60
Audio Alchemy DTI-Pro
Audio Magic Mystic Reference I2S
Audio Alchemy DDE 3.0
Kimber Select 1030
Zen Select #76
Kimber Select 3033
Polk Audio LS-90
Tri-config/TipToes & Vibropods underneath Speakers
360 degree Rm Treats
  IP Logged
Lonely Raven
Seasoned Member
****


Jack of all Trades,
Master of None

Posts: 1418
Re: Welcome to the Mystery Amp Support Forum!
Reply #31 - 07/28/14 at 22:18:08
 

Stone, do they make an XLR version of those Kimber? While I don't see me buying $1500 ICs anytime soon. I might grab something better than my $300 Morrow cables if I find a great deal somewhere.

Now that I think about it, I've not tried the DirectStream via RCA at all. Maybe I should at least give that a spin as well. The lower voltage on the DS has been slightly disappointing though....
Back to top
 
 
WWW Lonely Raven   IP Logged
stone_of_tone
Seasoned Member
****


Listen Often/Listen
Deep

Posts: 859
Re: Welcome to the Mystery Amp Support Forum!
Reply #32 - 08/12/14 at 16:37:17
 
Yes of course they make an XLR version.  ;)

Anyway, I am back from vacation....kicked it off with Sir Paul at Target Field Aug 2nd. Then I went to Miami Beach/South Beach an the Bahamas. We got lucky an had great weather (missed Bertha).

I got to spend last night with my CSP3 & ZMA. They continue to amaze me!
Back to top
 
 

Sony as Transport
Illuminati D-60
Audio Alchemy DTI-Pro
Audio Magic Mystic Reference I2S
Audio Alchemy DDE 3.0
Kimber Select 1030
Zen Select #76
Kimber Select 3033
Polk Audio LS-90
Tri-config/TipToes & Vibropods underneath Speakers
360 degree Rm Treats
  IP Logged
FarmBoss
Verified Member
**




Posts: 21
Need more
Reply #33 - 08/25/14 at 11:28:26
 
I have been breaking my system in for a while now and i still am not real happy with it.  I have Martin Logan ESL's and in addition tomthe Mystery Amp have added the phono stage ZP3 and the pre-amp csp3.  I still need more volume occasionally.  I am forced to back off the volume due,to clipping.  Given all of the tubes involved I am wondering where to start in swapping input or outputs to get the most gain.  I would appreciate any advise.  I don't want to buy new speakers.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Lonely Raven
Seasoned Member
****


Jack of all Trades,
Master of None

Posts: 1418
Re: Welcome to the Mystery Amp Support Forum!
Reply #34 - 08/26/14 at 06:42:19
 
Well, assuming you aren't dialing in the gains incorrectly, you have only three options I can think of.

#1 More efficient speakers. I know you already said no new speakers, but it's the #1 thing that changes the volume of your system.
Your ESL are 91db - the amp is ~40 watts, so.
1watt = 91db
2watt = 94db
4watt = 97db
8watt = 100db
16watt = 103db
32watt = 106db

106db is pretty loud honestly. I start disliking the volume around 98db myself.

#2 You could get a bigger amp. But to go louder, you need to double your power for every 3db (as shown in #1).

#3 And this is the one most people don't really think about - you could lower the noise floor of your listening room. Chances are, you have ambient noise, and room reflections mucking up your sound. Try to tame some of that with sound treatments, rugs, furniture, curtains. If you bring the noise floor down, the apparent volume goes up, though nothing in the system has changed except for the room. You'll simply be able to hear the music better.

Seeing as how you're easily outputting 100db with that amp into those speakers, I'm wondering if your system is really setup correctly, or your room is really that bad?

Maybe it's time to give Steve a call and look for his suggestions?

Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 08/26/14 at 06:48:24 by Lonely Raven »  
WWW Lonely Raven   IP Logged
FarmBoss
Verified Member
**




Posts: 21
Re: Welcome to the Mystery Amp Support Forum!
Reply #35 - 08/27/14 at 01:37:47
 
Raven thanks for the advise. I can not really change the room.  It is in a workshop in my garage.  I am way out in the country and play it with the garage door open.  The speakers do not have any back wall at all and I suspect I am losing a lot of sound.  If I was to close the door then sure it is pretty loud.  I guess maybe a box type speaker might be better in this situation.  I sure do love those ESLs though.  I listen to a lot of hard rock and if I were to get new speakers I would want something that had big woofers.  It seems like todays speaker designs usually have much smaller woofers than the speakers of the 70's.  I run a sub with the ESL's and dislike the disconnect of having to set the cutoff.  Thank for the chart it is pretty neat.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Lonely Raven
Seasoned Member
****


Jack of all Trades,
Master of None

Posts: 1418
Re: Welcome to the Mystery Amp Support Forum!
Reply #36 - 08/27/14 at 02:36:55
 

Oh yeah, that's a big difference when you don't have that back wall. In fact, for critical listening, as long as the out-doors doesn't drown out your music, you're probably getting better stereo imaging than I would in-doors! But you're also throwing away all that sound energy, and that's where your problem lies.

When you're seeing a live performance that's out doors, they *need* that multi-thousand watt PA since that energy is emanating out and not back at all. You've got 40 watts.

If you have a smart phone, try this out - go search for a sound meter app and install it. Play a song at your typical volume with the door open and the app measuring the sound, then do it again with the door closed. It's probably a measurable volume jump with the door closed.
Back to top
 
 
WWW Lonely Raven   IP Logged
will
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 1238
Re: Welcome to the Mystery Amp Support Forum!
Reply #37 - 08/27/14 at 16:51:26
 
Farm Boss. I am sorry I am not home to try it, but in my Torii MKIII 6N1P inputs put out a lot less volume than 6922s, 623NP, 7DJ8 or 6DJ8s. I have not compared in the CSP3 for volume, only for sound. But it may give you a hit to change the input and the outputs if they are 6N1P. If you don't have some inputs around to play with, I can check after the weekend if you are not in too big a hurry.
Back to top
 
 

Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-7, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5 and Shunyata Defender, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab isocups and tube dampers...
  IP Logged
jsm71
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 106
Re: Welcome to the Mystery Amp Support Forum!
Reply #38 - 08/28/14 at 16:12:31
 
Farmboss, the ML speakers being dipoles need wall relections to support the soundstage.  I had Magnepans and they are similar in room setup.  Given your garage setup I would consider looking at Tekton Pendragons.  They are "only" $2500/pair, have twin 10" drivers and will rock all day long since they are 98dB sensitive.  They get a lot of praise from the high efficiency crowd.  The ZMA would drive them superbly.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
FarmBoss
Verified Member
**




Posts: 21
Re: Welcome to the Mystery Amp Support Forum!
Reply #39 - 08/28/14 at 23:43:16
 
Love the suggestions.  Will I am looking into changing the output tubes on the preamp.  That seems like a pretty inexpensive option.  Any suggestions for the brand to buy?  Also I am now researching the Tekton Pendragons.  I know how this will end.  Any thoughts on this speaker vs the Zu lineup?
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
will
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 1238
Re: Welcome to the Mystery Amp Support Forum!
Reply #40 - 09/01/14 at 02:45:48
 
Farm Boss,

I am finally home and did some listening with the CSP3. I can't tell much (if any) difference in volume between 6922 and 6N1P in the output position, so I am thinking my guess was off. I don't know how it works in these circuits. The difference in the MKIII input position is notable but not in the CSP3 output.
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 09/01/14 at 02:46:32 by will »  

Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-7, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5 and Shunyata Defender, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab isocups and tube dampers...
  IP Logged
FarmBoss
Verified Member
**




Posts: 21
Re: Welcome to the Mystery Amp Support Forum!
Reply #41 - 09/02/14 at 02:15:15
 
Will, I really appreciate that you would try this out for me.  Thank you.  Great idea though.  Meanwhile I have been playing around with the two different speaker outputs.  I have now moved them to the inside terminals also I changed my speaker placement and subwoofer settings..  My sound improved dramatically especially the low end.  I think I will pass on any speaker updates for now.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
jsm71
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 106
Re: Welcome to the Mystery Amp Support Forum!
Reply #42 - 09/02/14 at 13:55:03
 
If you have fixed your speaker setup that is always preferable to shopping for new speakers.  I was trying to envision the MLs in a garage and those speakers really need some boundaries.  I'm glad you have gotten some improvements.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Lonely Raven
Seasoned Member
****


Jack of all Trades,
Master of None

Posts: 1418
Re: Welcome to the Mystery Amp Support Forum!
Reply #43 - 09/08/14 at 17:11:54
 
I'm torn between starting my own thread now that the ZMA has it's own forum, or just continuing on this one. This will be a brief post since I'm at work and only have a couple minutes while I'm on hold with support.

I picked up these speakers form Stone of Tone yesterday - got them setup, and right off the bat I knew they are something special.








As I said, I only have a minute, but here are my initial impressions of the speakers.

I quickly set them up, and right away knew I was on to something good. I had them setup just inside of my venerable MG-944, and once I realized I was hearing good things, I pushed the MG944 back to give the Gallo Reference 3.1 some room to project. I've currently have the 3.1s setup about 3' from the back wall, and pointed straight into the room, no toe-in yet (the manual said try both ways). I don't have the Reference sub amp for these speakers, so I've currently got the ZMA hooked up to the top binding posts which run the MTM + Sub all off the ZMA.

My setup, as most of you already knonw:
Lenovo Mini-PC with Windows 2012 Server in Core Mode with Audiophile Optomizer software - running Foobar2000  in a Bitperfect format (no processing). All music off my NAS, mostly FLAC rips of my own CDs, plus some DSD tracks from Blue Coast Records and Opus3.

USB from PC to PS Audio DirectStream using Pangea .5m Silver USB Cable
XLR outs (Morrow audio - whatever their $300 1m cable is) to the ZMA
My version of the Decware STyx to the Gallo Reference 3.1
Everything powered by a PS Audio P10 and Pangea or Wireworld power cables.

First off, the tweeters on these speakers are amazing. This 300 degree dispersion is very musical instrument like, much like the HR-1 radial driver, but all the way up to 50khz!

Acoustic instruments sound much more realistic and lifelike. I played several acoustic guitar pieces and violin pieces, and they were mind-bendingly realistic. I felt like I could hear the wood resonate in the room just like a real instrument would!

Mids on these speakers are only OK. While the instruments, especially acoustic ones sound amazing, sharp and solid of image, I'm finding the vocals on all recordings seem to be a little fuzzy around the edges and more in the background of the sound stage.

Bass - this is the weak link. Even with the ZMA grunt and torque, the bass is good, but not as fast and dynamic as the MG-944. While the Gallos seem to have more deeper punch due to the bigger drivers, it just feels slow on the attack. The fantastic tweeters help make the acoustic bass sound more lifelike (you hear all the high frequency bowing or slapping or fingers sliding up and down the strings), but it's not enough to make up for the lack of speed.

I'm going to play with these speakers a bit - they do some things better than the MG-944; in my L-shaped room, the 300 degree wrap around tweeters help my imaging compared to the laser beam of the 944. The life like reproduction of acoustic instruments is amazing. But the 944 are more efficient, have a better speed and attack, and simply amazing bass for an MTM design without sub. The Decware speakers in general are simply amazing for the money, that I have to go to speakers costing twice the price to only start to do things better!

Final notes: the Gallos are 88db speakers, with the ZMA I can get them to my usual listening level, which is under 100db. I'm absolutely fine with these 88db speakers on the ZMA. As mentioned, the Reference 3.1 can have a Gallo designed sub-amp hooked up directly to the subs, which I think could be the missing link to getting the bass to keep up with the MG-944 - but then again, that's extra expense, and might not do anything but make the existing bass louder for all I know. More research on this in the coming weeks. So right now these aren't replacing the venerable 944, but they are on par with them (in my room and setup), and do some things better for me.

Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 09/08/14 at 17:25:01 by Lonely Raven »  
WWW Lonely Raven   IP Logged
bvictor
Verified Member
**




Posts: 12
Re: Welcome to the Mystery Amp Support Forum!
Reply #44 - 09/09/14 at 23:25:21
 
Hey All,  just got my ZMA last night and had my first 5 hours of listening.  Running Klipsch KLF-30s.  Lots of grip on the base.  I'm looking forward to the continued burn in.

Several questions if anyone knows:

Steve notes to not remove the tubes for 8 hours after the huge caps charge.  Is that true even with speakers connected?  IOW, how long do I wait after shutting down before I can swap out tubes?  

Can I run 6N2P-EV in the driver slots?

Anyone tried Genelex KT-66  or  Reflector 6P3S-E (6L6 GC / 5881) yet?

Can I hot swap between speakers, or do I have to shut down first?

Thanks in advance for any feedback.
Back to top
 
 

DECWARE: SE34I.2, HDT; CSP2, TABOO, ZDAC-1 DSRII, Zen Styx, Klipsch Forte II; SE34I.35, Zu Libtec, Klipsch KLF-30; Almarro A205a, Zu Soul Superfly; Supra LoRad 2.5 mains
  IP Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 4 
Send Topic Print