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Torrii MKIII wow! (Read 3348 times)
vmax
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Torrii MKIII wow!
04/12/14 at 23:48:18
 
I have quite a few components hooked up in My system, which has been causing alot of grounding issues.  I finally have the systems components grounded and have balanced out those ground circuits...

For the first time I am hearing what was described in the owners manual, crystal clear limitless depth in the music wow! This amp will never leave My areas possession now...

I have a true subwoofer which is high power so it has to have a good ground to stay silent, a rotel 1098 and 4 other amps and another processor, it's been a long journey but I finally got things together, also routing power though a few 3000 watts max surge/rfi interference filters.
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will
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Re: Torrii MKIII wow!
Reply #1 - 04/13/14 at 00:17:14
 
vmax, Wow is right...that is a lot of grounding to pull together...And congratulations! I am glad you can finally hear the Torii MKIII fully!
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« Last Edit: 04/13/14 at 00:41:39 by will »  

Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-7, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5 and Shunyata Defender, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab isocups and tube dampers...
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vmax
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Re: Torrii MKIII wow!
Reply #2 - 04/13/14 at 00:35:23
 
fully is right, after over a year it was worth the wait, things just sounded abit muddled before but now crystal clear and wow the upper frequencies are where they should be, maybe a vcap upgrade will get done later on.  I like the potential I'm finally seeing, the power caps in the Torrii are going to have to season/burn in for awhile before things actually settle where they should have been..  

things should get better and better now.
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« Last Edit: 04/13/14 at 00:36:39 by vmax »  
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will
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Re: Torrii MKIII wow!
Reply #3 - 04/13/14 at 00:47:26
 
It does just get more and more refined with time.

Interesting! Was it only the grounding that made such a difference? Did you introduce any power conditioning or regeneration for the amp at the same time... or anything else?

It is amazing how good it can sound when it is not muddled for some reason(s).
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Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-7, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5 and Shunyata Defender, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab isocups and tube dampers...
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vmax
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Re: Torrii MKIII wow!
Reply #4 - 04/13/14 at 01:31:27
 
I only added the grounding , now all the components can get prooper current flow. finally the music comes through.. the 3 prong plugs in My system weren't adequate to stop the ground loops, the grounding that I just did was in addition to the standard 3 prong plugs grounding.

Things were getting worse that's why I had to get it figured out again, I actually had most of the sytem grounded  before (in addition to the standard 3 prong plug grounding), I knew an imbalance was in the system, so I added a final ground on the front side of the chain of components to open up the bottleneck that was apparently happening...
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will
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Re: Torrii MKIII wow!
Reply #5 - 04/13/14 at 02:09:12
 
Cool. Very impressive illustration of one aspect of good power! Any chance you can expand on how you did it?
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Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-7, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5 and Shunyata Defender, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab isocups and tube dampers...
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vmax
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Re: Torrii MKIII wow!
Reply #6 - 04/13/14 at 04:10:38
 
It requires electricians certification to do what I did so I can't give out any direct info.. people may end blowing up their equipment or getting  harmful or fatal electric shock(s) ... Sad
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« Last Edit: 04/13/14 at 04:30:21 by vmax »  
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Donnie
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Re: Torrii MKIII wow!
Reply #7 - 04/13/14 at 15:08:31
 
Double super secret shit!
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tom collins
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Re: Torrii MKIII wow!
Reply #8 - 04/16/14 at 00:36:39
 
With all of the hype about the newer, cooler models, it is easy to forget about the humble mk III.  i have been loving mine for about 2 years now and it does get better and better.  Stick with it V.
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Lon
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Re: Torrii MKIII wow!
Reply #9 - 04/16/14 at 00:47:57
 
AMEN. I love my Torii Mk IIIs. And the Torii Mk II I listen to every day here at my parents' is an amazing machine as well, a bit more "old school" than the Mk IIIs which can be a very good thing!

I really am grateful to both Steve and Bob for all the pleasure their creations have given me over the last years. Changed my life!
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DVD-A1UDCI, Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Stradivarius, Ultra Linear+Evo ICs, Iso-Pods,Mapleshade:Double Heiix Plus,Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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JD
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Re: Torrii MKIII wow!
Reply #10 - 04/16/14 at 01:21:20
 
Tom and Lon I cannot agree with you guys strongly enough.  Decware is a life changer.  Just had an old friend visit and listen for a few hrs and he couldn't believe it...he kept on repeating "this is vinyl?", had a hard time understanding the depth of soundstage and in the room feel.  Played him some Dianna Krall, Jobim, Beck's new album and Robbie Shankar's lesser known daughter Anoushka.

Much love,

JD
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tom collins
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Re: Torrii MKIII wow!
Reply #11 - 04/20/14 at 14:44:48
 
this amp also lets you know if your money has been well spent on sources and other upgrades.  a few of my recent changes.
1st, exchanged my very good copper speaker wires for silver from the torii to the err's.  small upgrade, better spacial balance but not a killer, the other wire was very good and very close, had to go back and forth.
2nd, silver interconnect substituted between phono pre and torii.  watch out, not even close.  the increase in clarity was easily heard, no need to switch back and forth with that.
3rd, exchanged the sme arm for the jmw 12 inch on the tnt table with delos cart.  unbelievable.  can now easily hear that the tuba is behind the trombones just like real life.  the system was always excellent spacially, but in a diffuse sort of way.  no longer.
however, this isn't a commercial for a tone arm but for the fact that the torii and the decware phono let all of this happen, no guessing.
it is revealing without being "ruthlessly revealing".
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Lon
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Re: Torrii MKIII wow!
Reply #12 - 04/20/14 at 14:57:42
 
Thanks for posting that. What cables did you move to and from? If you don't mind sharing.

I echo your observation that the Mk III lets you hear changes. I just put a Herbie's Audio Lab turntable mat on my RP3. I immediately heard a change from the felt mat that came with the table (it was a table that had been upgraded to an Exact2 cartridge and the yellow mat that matched the cartridge). I heard immediate differences. . . I like both mats, each have their own character, and can help with tailoring sound with older lps. The Mk III lets me quite clearly hear each distinctive character of the respective mats.
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DVD-A1UDCI, Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Stradivarius, Ultra Linear+Evo ICs, Iso-Pods,Mapleshade:Double Heiix Plus,Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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JD
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Re: Torrii MKIII wow!
Reply #13 - 04/20/14 at 15:18:32
 
there must be some bizarre synergy between Torii III owners cuz I just replaced my felt mat with a herbie's as well (last week) and although I was hesitant it's a definite improvement.  I also agree silver interconnects are best, i'm using Decware and one pair of grover huffman's.  I find a much better sound with silver rca connectors instead of copper.
I also just switched back to brown base early 50's rca 5r4gy's in my torii.  I still use 5u4g rca's in my zp3 and csp2+.  i know most prefer the 5u4g's over the 5r4gy's but I find with the combo of both it just tightens up a little bit.

JD
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mark58
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Re: Torrii MKIII wow!
Reply #14 - 04/20/14 at 16:11:29
 
Lon,  which Herbies  TT mat did you get?  and what size...thickness and diameter? As you know I have a Rega RP6 TT with the factory installed Exact 2 Cart, which I assume has a similar size glass platter as the RP3.  I've been meaning to replace the felt mat...just haven't gotten around to it yet.  Mark.
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« Last Edit: 04/20/14 at 16:12:38 by mark58 »  
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Lon
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Re: Torrii MKIII wow!
Reply #15 - 04/20/14 at 16:32:47
 
I ordered this one Mark, and included a note telling Steve what I had and asking him to advise me if this is not the best choice. He shipped me this one.

Way Excellent II-2mm:

Size options:
295mm (11.6") diameter. Full-size mat for most turntables.
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DVD-A1UDCI, Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Stradivarius, Ultra Linear+Evo ICs, Iso-Pods,Mapleshade:Double Heiix Plus,Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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will
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Re: Torrii MKIII wow!
Reply #16 - 04/20/14 at 16:47:56
 
I have been exploring the MKIV and MKIII together but in different rooms. Having heard a Taboo, 34SE and Rachel, I would say all Decware amps are potentially very revealing. There is something very transparent about the MKIII though in this respect of revealing changes, I agree. Its potential for bass intensity in my settings is a factor that I did not get with the other amps giving subtle changes more importance. I don't think I have ever made a change of settings, tubes, feet, cables or even subtle power tweaks that could not be perceived. Some pretty subtle, but most notable.

I hear you JD. I think it depends so much on so many things, but the tightening of the 5Y4s can be pretty useful. I go back and forth on the RCA 5U4G-ST and 5Y4GYs, particularly in the MKIII. Right now, to chill the mid bass in my new room, I am liking some GE 5Y4GYs...clean, open and tight, but also some 40s RCA 5U4G-ST. I get your silver IC thing too. My favorite interconnects have been silver for a long time. I do find differences between the silvers as much as between good copper and good silver though, and with well designed and implemented cables, it seems a synergy and taste thing finally. I do seem to find that the silver I have tried tends to bring out micro information nicely though. Right now I am using Grovers from my DAC to the CSP3 and VHAudio DIY silver from CSP to MKIV.
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Lon
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Re: Torrii MKIII wow!
Reply #17 - 04/20/14 at 16:58:13
 
I've like both silver and copper. . . and then found the best compromise in the melding of the two in these interconnects:

http://www.voodoocable.net/VEVIC.html

I'm sure there are better cables out there but these took me off the cable merry-go-round, replacing Decware and MAC silver cables. Just the right blend of musicality, detail and ease of sound for my system, and in both my old and new rooms. Took a chance on my first pair because they were used and affordable. Haven't seen a used pair again! I've bought othars at full pop, still feels worth it to me.

I have one pair of the next step up (which is no longer made), UltraLinear. If I see more used, I'll grab them, VERY nice.
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« Last Edit: 04/20/14 at 17:00:00 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DVD-A1UDCI, Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Stradivarius, Ultra Linear+Evo ICs, Iso-Pods,Mapleshade:Double Heiix Plus,Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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JD
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Re: Torrii MKIII wow!
Reply #18 - 04/20/14 at 17:57:58
 
I decided to do some more tube rolling so I've replaced my nos pair of mullard 6922 and a telefunken e88cc with a pair of nos siemens e188cc's and a amperex 7308.  I have really come to enjoy the 7308's in my input positions on my torii so why not try em all around in the csp2+.

JD
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will
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Re: Torrii MKIII wow!
Reply #19 - 04/20/14 at 18:31:35
 
Interesting Lon. How would describe the Evolutions compared to the Decware or Macs?

JD,

I too have gotten a bit of the E188CC/7308 bug. I have a long love for PCC88s though, and usually end up back there for Torii inputs. I had some bad tube trouble with my CSP3, the power tube position being noisy with anything other than 6N1P and 6QB7As and I believe compromising the tubes on the left side. Though I pulled them quick, and not in all cases, but one of a pair tried in the CSP3 died later in too many cases for me not to believe this to be the case.

This however was not the experience of many CSP2 folks or later CSP3s. I sent mine back for an adjustment that Steve said would solve it and that he was using on CSP3s made after mine. Mine is #3 I think.

All that said, it sounds like this is a non-issue in your case. I bet it sounds awesome with E188CC/7308s all around. My feet have been cold in trying 6922/6dj8 types in that position, but I need to get over it. So thanks.
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« Last Edit: 04/20/14 at 18:32:47 by will »  

Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-7, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5 and Shunyata Defender, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab isocups and tube dampers...
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Lon
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Re: Torrii MKIII wow!
Reply #20 - 04/20/14 at 19:00:51
 
will wrote on 04/20/14 at 18:31:35:
Interesting Lon. How would describe the Evolutions compared to the Decware or Macs?



I find them to have a fuller sound without losing detail or dynamics, and to have the copper warmth thing with the silver quickness if that makes any sense (?) The presentation just seems "right." The Cryoset Version 2 I used for some time almost have all these qualities except the bit of quickness the Evolution does provide. The only analog spot I don't yet have VooDoo Cable interconnects is between the ZP3 and the second CSP2+ -- I'm using an Analysis Plus cable there that is very good. But someday perhsps. . . .:)
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DVD-A1UDCI, Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Stradivarius, Ultra Linear+Evo ICs, Iso-Pods,Mapleshade:Double Heiix Plus,Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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will
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Re: Torrii MKIII wow!
Reply #21 - 04/20/14 at 19:44:33
 
Quote:
the copper warmth thing with the silver quickness if that makes any sense (?)


Thanks. That makes sense to me from a well designed blend of copper and silver. The areas that fascinate me lately are micro detail and micro dynamics, the balance of each in how they relate to the rest of detail and dynamics, and the impact on the listening experience. I think the conveyance of these is associated with speed, and also the extra information that comes along with speed... more accurate conveyance of subtle information. It shows on the beginning and ending edges of a note, but also, equally in the timbre, completing a sound with fine detail. AND the ambience! Finally it enables a delivery that is natural and logical subconsciously, and if everything else is good, a more engaging musical experience.

Like Tom says, these things can be heard with the MKIII and what a great tool that makes it, though I am presently exploring this with the MKIV and what an experience that is!
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« Last Edit: 04/20/14 at 19:56:14 by will »  

Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-7, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5 and Shunyata Defender, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab isocups and tube dampers...
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Lon
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Re: Torrii MKIII wow!
Reply #22 - 04/20/14 at 20:02:25
 
Well, if you ever get a chance to audition the VooDoo Cable line of interconnects, I'd recommend taking the opportunity. I think they may offer an avenue into what you are exploring.

I'm very happy with mine and they mate well with all my other cabling, which is also important. I've ordered a few sets of their IsoPods as well to try under my CSP2+s and ZP3. I can't use Iso-Cups there because of the AC-12 power cords, which exert too much backwards force, so I'm using Tenderfeet. But the IsoPods are suppoed to not "move" and that may mean that I can use them, and I bet they'll improve the sound in comparison to the Tenderfeet; the Tenderfeet are the weakest link I have in my isolation componentry.

Interesting the focus on microdynamics and microdetail. The dynamics aspect in particular has been something that has been noticed by my ears of late. I find this a characteristic of my PS Audio PerfectWave DAC, any shift in dynamics is noticeable and really puts a "breath of life" into the music. And then I found a similar, almost to the same extent, characteristic in an unexpected place, the California Audio Labs changer that I put into my Dad's system. Dad and I have both been surprised at the dynamic control that this player has brought to that system, where no other source has come close. With the music we are listening to there, solo piano and chamber music and orchestral pieces, this dynamic contrast in presentation really stands out and makes an involving iistening. (And this with MAC silver cabling and Decware power cables). The Torii Mk II is very capable of showing this sort of detail and sorting it all out well. I had underestimated this amp before, it's really shining lately.
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« Last Edit: 04/20/14 at 20:07:48 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DVD-A1UDCI, Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Stradivarius, Ultra Linear+Evo ICs, Iso-Pods,Mapleshade:Double Heiix Plus,Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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will
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Re: Torrii MKIII wow!
Reply #23 - 04/20/14 at 22:43:07
 
Lon,

I will keep an eye out for Voodoos.

I got Isocups to work under the CSP3, but mine is in a cabinet, and the cord runs, not down, but to the side so the power conditioner holds up one end, with one little grundbuster topped screw to gently hold it up. One of the few practical benefits of a cabinet.

I don't use tenderfeet except in double isolation. I have some under a flagstone and then some Synergistic MIGs between the stone and Zstage. No idea what the effect of the flag is, but this pile of stuff under the Zstage allows a good solid and linear sound. I had been using pieces of flagstone for weight on top of Herbies sonic stabilizers to good effect and just thought "what if."

It is great the California and MKII are so happening in you and your dad's system! I keep being amazed at how content I am with my Tranquility DAC. Folks talk a lot about advanced technology DACs and high-res, going for the smooth resolution of analog, and I sit here feeling very happy with this brilliant NOS DAC. It is tweaked with great cords, USB power isolation, tweaked PureMusic software, and a weighted and vibration isolated Mini with good settings, but the whole does a beautiful job of transforming Rebook to smooth, balanced and detailed Music! With the rest of my gear and room it is so musical and real it constantly amazes me. Well amaze is too cold a word for this feeling. I am in Love!

But this again points to the Wow of a Torii. These amazing amps make it all possible.
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« Last Edit: 04/20/14 at 22:45:13 by will »  

Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-7, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5 and Shunyata Defender, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab isocups and tube dampers...
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Lon
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Re: Torrii MKIII wow!
Reply #24 - 04/20/14 at 23:18:36
 
Hey, there are many ways to skin the audio cat! Each room is different, we all have different tastes, and I think we can all agree on one thing: not an ordinary amp or DAC can pull off what our Decware systems can if worked on for best setup and output!

The more I have delved into this hobby these decades the more I've learned that synergy is the key to system cohesiveness, and that what works for one doesn't always work for another, and vice versa.

This is a hobby that can take you through a lifetime, for the most part. . .happily.

I had to use Tenderfeet, even in a cabinet the weight of the AC-12 (this is a heavy ass cable, but works oh so wonderfully in my system) makes Iso-Cups unusable. I'm hoping the IsoPod from VooDoo Cable will work.

Regarding the CL-10: surprised the heck out of me that a fifteen year old changer would sound so good, but then every review of this I've read alludes to this being THE audiophile changer, so I shouldn't be too surprised. Only the PerfectWave DAC (Mk I or II) has bettered it in my experience in dynamic control and contrast. That's big praise for what turned out to be a very solid unit bought for 300 dollars.
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« Last Edit: 04/21/14 at 15:00:39 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DVD-A1UDCI, Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Stradivarius, Ultra Linear+Evo ICs, Iso-Pods,Mapleshade:Double Heiix Plus,Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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JD
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Re: Torrii MKIII wow!
Reply #25 - 04/21/14 at 13:55:01
 
Will, regarding post 1089 it seems we are on a similar auditory journey.  Great job putting it into words.  
I've always been interested in the epistemology of music whether it be a genre or individual note...Decware's a great tool to help on this journey.


JD
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Re: Torrii MKIII wow!
Reply #26 - 04/21/14 at 16:30:32
 
JD,  that's a new word for me.  For the others too lazy to look it up...see below.  Mark.

e·pis·te·mol·o·gy

noun PHILOSOPHY
1.
the theory of knowledge, esp. with regard to its methods, validity, and scope. Epistemology is the investigation of what distinguishes justified belief from opinion.
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« Last Edit: 04/21/14 at 16:32:09 by mark58 »  
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will
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Re: Torrii MKIII wow!
Reply #27 - 04/21/14 at 18:55:46
 
Great term! Thanks.
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« Last Edit: 04/21/14 at 18:56:17 by will »  

Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-7, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5 and Shunyata Defender, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab isocups and tube dampers...
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tom collins
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Re: Torrii MKIII wow!
Reply #28 - 04/21/14 at 19:17:45
 
Lon:  You asked me which silver cables I have.  They are the United Home Audio (the Tape Project People) Dragon and Celtic.  The speaker cables are Double Dragons.

Tom
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Re: Torrii MKIII wow!
Reply #29 - 04/21/14 at 19:21:44
 
Thanks Tom!
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DVD-A1UDCI, Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Stradivarius, Ultra Linear+Evo ICs, Iso-Pods,Mapleshade:Double Heiix Plus,Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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Re: Torrii MKIII wow!
Reply #30 - 04/26/14 at 19:50:39
 
With 7308's all around the sound was too relaxed, a little too much floating around. tried it for a week or so and it worked great on some recordings but not all.  I've put back a telefunken e88cc in the driver position of the csp2+ and I am very happy. Seems a happier medium.

JD
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Re: Torrii MKIII wow!
Reply #31 - 04/30/14 at 02:54:38
 
ok, last and final bit of info regarding a problem I've finally got beat...

I have a true subwoofer, this things life blood is the power capacitors it has inside in it's circuitry, the Torrii MKIII also has alot of power capacitors in it's cicuitry. the problem a noisy incoherent humming sound in the system, sub and the Torrii MKIII.

here's the culprit, it was the source, an older cd changer. the fix was to lube the cd mechanisms. after all those years the lithium grease became dried out.  an integral part of a cd players operation is propper tracking, add even a small amout of drag in the mechanism the cd laser rides on as it track the cd and it won't read the data properly.  It had an incoherent sound witha constant oscillation in both channels the left more than the right channel as well as the music was louder in the right channel more than the left channel.  

the constant low level oscilation had conditioned the capacitors in the sub and the TorriiMKIII to produce hum sort of like a ground loop.

I used prolong brand lube on the cd mech.  The system is dead quiet, balanced and sounding the way it should now.

If you have a mystery ground loop and an older cd player this info may be helpful  :)  .....
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« Last Edit: 04/30/14 at 03:11:07 by vmax »  
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Re: Torrii MKIII wow!
Reply #32 - 05/07/14 at 03:29:31
 
Well, since I mentioned the VooDoo Cable "Iso-Pods" above I wanted to add some info now that they have arrived.

These are very interesting. They are similar to Herbie's Iso-Cups and also Roller Blocks from Ingress Engineering or Symposium. But unlike the Roller Blocks they don't allow any noticeable latteral movement, they have a magnetic field holding them together pretty solidly.  

I was hoping I could put these under the CSP2+ and ZP3 and they wouldn't wobble or be too low that the AC-12 power cords would cause them to move or lift. Well, success there, put these under the preamps and they are solid. But. . . I didn't like the sound that much. The quick and warm bass was just gone. Puzzling. Very clear and open midbass, great treble, but bass. . . vanished. I messed about a bit with controls etc. but never quite got close to what I had before in the lower frequencies. So I put the Tenderfeet back in, there you go, the bass was back.

I have Iso-Cups under my Power Plant Premier but wasn't sure they were doing much. So I tried five of the Iso-Pods under the PPP and was very surprised. There was a more open midrange and no loss in other frequencies. And then I had freed up five Iso-Cups with Deep Moss Quartz balls and had another one in the closet so I tried them under the two preamps. This time, since they are sitting on a PowerBase, somehow they wer quite stable on the Iso-Cups, and the sound now was just great. A bit more depth to the sound with the right tonal balance and seemed a bit more revealing of dynamic changes. Okay, I stuck a fork in the mix, done. Very happy with the improvements, certainly not earth-shaking but what is?

Next I replaced the four Tenderfeet under the Rega RP3 with four of the Iso-Pods. No question, the Iso-Pods win. More depth AND more detail to the sound. I liked the Roller Blocks under the RP3 but could not live with the latteral movement when they were there, not on an turntable! No such movement with these.

So the Iso-Pods surprised me, didn't like them under my tubed preamps, really liked them under the PPP and the RP3. Interesting pieces.

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Re: Torrii MKIII wow!
Reply #33 - 05/07/14 at 05:16:33
 
Thanks Lon.
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Re: Torrii MKIII wow!
Reply #34 - 07/03/14 at 03:36:44
 
   I don't have anything technical to add to the discussion, however, I do have a Torii MKIII wow! moment to share.

   My wife and I used to do a lot of quality stereo listening back in the day on the old SS stereo rig.  Long story short, due to kids, jobs schedules not coinciding etc, we just haven't listened to the new Decware Torii MKIII, Monolith spkrs and Oppo 105 together much, (which means she rarely does).  

  Well she's got a elementary school job so is off for the summer. Today the kids were out and about and I had the tubes warmed up so asked her to sit in the sweet spot.  I had some Music Matters jazz on and she was impressed with the sound but said she missed how the old stereo imaged so well.  I said well this one can too, it's just that  the old 50's stereo recording always sound hard left/right.  So I put on the the Eagles - Hotel California sacd and selected Pretty Maids All In A Row as I know it has the players spaced out pretty well and she likes the song.

   I sat next to her and after the song was over I turned and asked what she thought.  She had tears running down her cheeks.  Pointing at them she said "that's how beautiful I think it sounds"   I have never in 15yrs with her seen her react to the music that way and she now finally gets how great this Decware gear is after having listening to me babble on and on for months about how superior it all is.

Anyways, it was a pretty cool moment and I figured I'd share it with you guys.

Greg

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« Last Edit: 07/03/14 at 03:54:07 by Greg12 »  

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Re: Torrii MKIII wow!
Reply #35 - 07/03/14 at 13:37:42
 
very cool Greg very cool, as a teacher myself there is nothing better than tubes in the summertime.

JD
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Re: Torrii MKIII wow!
Reply #36 - 07/03/14 at 23:13:05
 
Nice Greg! Thanks for the story. I have been brought to tears by the MKIII and the MkIV! Part of it for me is no doubt gratitude for Steve and Bob and crews for offering gear that can develop musical realism in our homes. But most of it is that extraordinary realism grabbing me and blowing my mind!
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« Last Edit: 07/03/14 at 23:14:04 by will »  

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Re: Torrii MKIII wow!
Reply #37 - 10/19/14 at 01:33:22
 
this could have been posted earlier but i couldn't find it it. in my opinion the valve art 274b couldn't hold a candle to my early 50's rca 5u4g rectifiers.   I tried for a couple weeks but it was letting way too much voltage get to my speakers.  I'm back to my early 50's rca 5u4g with ob3's helping out. Beautiful sound

JD
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Re: Torrii MKIII wow!
Reply #38 - 10/19/14 at 02:40:56
 
Me too. I can get great sound from the Valve Art 274B (and 5V4s, and 5Y4GYs) depending on tubes, but I most often end up right where you are...50's 5U4G-ST with OB3s.
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« Last Edit: 10/19/14 at 02:42:51 by will »  

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Re: Torrii MKIII wow!
Reply #39 - 10/19/14 at 22:26:50
 
Hi guys,

Curious about these  5U4G-ST's.  I know a few folks are using/liking them here.  I have a pair of RCA 5U4GB's but I don't use them because for me the bass is too big and undefined w/ them in my Mk III.  I currently am using RCA 5y3gt's which seems to keeps the bass controlled in my set up.  Curious how the 5U4G-ST's would compare to these other 2 types.  I'd like to try them but wouldn't if they're similar to the 5U4GB's

Thanks,

Greg
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« Last Edit: 10/19/14 at 22:36:47 by Greg12 »  

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Re: Torrii MKIII wow!
Reply #40 - 10/19/14 at 22:48:01
 
Hey Greg,

In general I've found the ST type to have a touch leaner bass and midrange in my Mk III. In between the 5Y3GT and 5U4GB of most brands and vintages. So it may well be worth trying out. Like will I have moved to OB3 tubes and the ST mates well with them. I found a pair of old Acturus OB3 tubes that just work so well with my other tube complement that I hope they last forever!

If you look at ebay often enough there are ST pairs reasonbly priced. . . I would not spend a lot til you know this is a useful type.
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Re: Torrii MKIII wow!
Reply #41 - 10/19/14 at 23:04:57
 
Edit: funny, Lon beat me on the keyboard, but here are my similar thoughts.

Greg,

RCA ST's vary depending on construction but are less bassy than GBs in my experience, GBs being the most bassy rectifier I have tried. The STs I like best for open and sweet detail, and on the less bassy side for the tube, have top/side D getters. I have found them on ebay pretty inexpensively at times.

That said, they will make you amp bassier than 5Y3s, but also more dynamic. Risky I would say if the 5y3s seem right or close to the edge on some material. You might get closer with STs and OC3, but likely more open mids too. I have never compared this equation though. And since you like your sound with bigger sounding OA3s.....I don't know if I would risk the ST.

This is why I started using EQ in my PureMusic software player, so I could use tubes that tend more toward bass.
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« Last Edit: 10/19/14 at 23:07:53 by will »  

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Re: Torrii MKIII wow!
Reply #42 - 10/20/14 at 00:16:35
 
Lon and Will,

     I think most of my bass issues stem from my small living room.  11 X 13'.  I sure wish I had a larger LR so that I could pull the Monoliths out and away from the front wall more.  I really can't get them more than 14" from the wall because they'd just intrude too much.  (we live in a 1920's bungalow, smallish rooms).  Thankfully the 5y3gt's allow me to overcome, to an extent, the room issue.

I think if I can find 5U4G-ST's cheap enough I'll get them to try.  I've got the OB3's that I could use w/ them if needed,  C's and D's too for that matter, it'd be fun to experiment.  

Anyways,  thanks for the great info.

Greg
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« Last Edit: 10/20/14 at 00:20:12 by Greg12 »  

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Re: Torrii MKIII wow!
Reply #43 - 10/20/14 at 00:25:32
 
Greg,

Have you ever trying "tuning" the ports of the Monoliths. By playing with various levels of plugging the port, I wonder if you could fine-tune to your space and taste...or at least help it. Since your speaker placement is exaggerating the bass, why not try to cut some of it?
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Re: Torrii MKIII wow!
Reply #44 - 10/20/14 at 00:42:12
 
Will,

Glad you mentioned that.  I did use some old sweatshirts in the horns back when I first got the spkrs and that seemed to help some.  I pulled them out a couple weeks ago after running the KT66's for several days.  Haven't felt the need to put them back in.  I'll play around some more next week when I'm off work for 7days. The other day my wife had bought some pillow stuffing at Michael's to restuff a couple couch pillows. The white, fibrous stuff.  May get some more and stuff a couple old flannel pillow cases we've got laying around and play with different densities to see what works best.
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« Last Edit: 10/20/14 at 00:59:27 by Greg12 »  

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Re: Torrii MKIII wow!
Reply #45 - 10/20/14 at 01:59:24
 
Nice the KT66 helped. Might it be an interesting variation to come up with a simple scheme to variably block the output port at the back of the 946???
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« Last Edit: 10/20/14 at 18:13:47 by will »  

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Re: Torrii MKIII wow!
Reply #46 - 10/20/14 at 03:22:08
 
Hmm,  like some of those plugs that some speakers come w/..  interesting idea.  I will play around over the next week or so and let you know what I come up with.  You're a smart man Mr Will.  :)

Greg
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Re: Torrii MKIII wow!
Reply #47 - 10/20/14 at 05:24:32
 
Not really sure what would work best since you want a nice fit between horn and speaker...and it would cool if you could try it just a little blocked and more if needed. Looking forward to what you come up with and the results!
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« Last Edit: 10/20/14 at 05:25:02 by will »  

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Re: Torrii MKIII wow!
Reply #48 - 10/20/14 at 15:38:34
 

Sorry for the giant pic.  Gotta figure that one out.

So did an inventory around the house.  Found a paint roller which is a plastic tube with the fuzz around it.  Cut it in half.  Figured that would narrow the port somewhat.

Used the opening song on Zep II, Whole Lotta love.  The bass riff can sound sorta plodding when cranked.   Then took different amounts of pillow batting and stuffed the tube with it until I got the bass trimmed just enough to tighten up some.  I'll keep putzing but the concept seems valid.  I know from the picture it looks like the bass would be muffled by all the stuffing, but it is just loose batting and its not in there as densely as it appears.  

Fun experiment.

Greg
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« Last Edit: 10/20/14 at 16:00:52 by Greg12 »  

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Re: Torrii MKIII wow!
Reply #49 - 10/20/14 at 17:54:32
 
That looks like a very clean solution! I was thinking about something similar but more complicated...maybe different sizes of plastic pipe or rubber couplings with something like rubber window gasket material around the outside to get them to fit pretty air tight. Interesting that this worked with some light stuffing, and the horn is still pretty active??? Nice how easy it is to adjust and pull for comparison if that seemed relevant...easy to compare a port plug to the horn outlet plug.

I really enjoy this sort of experiment. After all,  all gear is tuned to the maker's standards and using their room and placement parameters. Then if we are really lucky, we can fine-tune them to our systems and rooms to get the most from them.
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Re: Torrii MKIII wow!
Reply #50 - 10/20/14 at 23:35:29
 
" Interesting that this worked with some light stuffing, and the horn is still pretty active???"

Yeah, it didn't lower the volume of the bass, still powerful and all.  Just trimmed off some of the fat so to speak.
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« Last Edit: 10/20/14 at 23:35:51 by Greg12 »  

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Re: Torrii MKIII wow!
Reply #51 - 10/21/14 at 00:18:36
 
Great! Maybe you can get where you are not limited with Rectifiers...
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Re: Torrii MKIII wow!
Reply #52 - 10/21/14 at 00:44:05
 
That would definitely be one of the goals.  I'll have to make to trip to Home Depot in the next few days and see what they have that may be worth experimenting with.  Hopefully one of the employees there can point me to the audiophile department.   Tongue
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« Last Edit: 10/21/14 at 00:59:26 by Greg12 »  

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