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Power Regeneration & Decware Amps (Read 8644 times)
Palomino
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #50 - 05/01/14 at 15:19:09
 
I was wondering if something at the wall would help this.  What do the BPT units run?  Does PS audio offer something similar?

Edit Found BPT on the web.  Still looking for other solutions.  I may try something in between the PPP and the wall and see if it helps.  I have a tripplite isolation transformer I could stick in there.
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« Last Edit: 05/01/14 at 15:34:09 by Palomino »  

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Lonely Raven
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #51 - 05/01/14 at 15:51:15
 

I've got Triplite 1500 watt isolation transformer, 1200 watt power ocnditioner, and that PS Audio Solo which I've not installed yet. you're welcome to borrow any of them for testing - though I'm hoping to install the Solo soon, I just need a hand pulling my projection screen down and a few cuts into the wall.
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4krow
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #52 - 05/01/14 at 16:00:28
 
Yes, there may be a few options, but then considering your problem as being too high of a THD, I'm not so sure that solution would be plausible. The BPT products are very good for supplying balanced power, but in order to feed a PPP, you would need to purchase the BPT product that would be able to handle a 20 amp load, just to have that margin for the PPP. I'm really thinking that there is an issue with the PPP itself, seeing how it is reading a crazy amount of incoming THD. First step in my thinking is to get it checked out. If, after that point, you still want to provide a cleaner power from the wall Before it gets to the PPP, then perhaps a PS Audio 'Ultimate Outlet' would be more practical. It will be able to clean the incoming power and not have current limitation. I cannot think of a device that would help lower the THD Before the PP, in spite of the fact that I wonder if a balanced power unit (BPT) would help cancel the THD if it is a common mode noise sort of thing. You did mention a Tripplite isolation transformer, and I also am a big fan of these devices, but only for the proper application. By this I mean that the Tripplite is compensating mostly for the voltage variations, and the PPP is already designed to do that. Also, I am not so sure that I would like the idea of using a transformer between the wall and the PPP. Sorry if I am talking in circles here, it's just my continued train of thought W/O editing. In conclusion, I would definitely want the PP to be verified as good to go before I try solve the problem by use of additional filters, etc.
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Palomino
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #53 - 05/01/14 at 16:01:21
 
Thanks.  I may take you up on it Raven.

I've been doing some research into power standards.  I'm not sure I understand everything but it looks like about 3-5% THD is the standard.

I put a call in the ComEd and they are going to look into it.  They may even send someone out to investigate.
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« Last Edit: 05/01/14 at 16:02:58 by Palomino »  

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4krow
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #54 - 05/01/14 at 16:03:59
 
 Good thinking about the power company. In the past, I have tried to get action, but sometimes they don't respond, or BS me in a way that they think I will just accept their answer.
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Palomino
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #55 - 05/01/14 at 16:08:34
 
I hate shipping stuff.  Just a peeve of mine.

That along with the intermittent nature of it, has me thinking its still external.  I listened for over 3 hours last night with no issues.

I also saw that overnight, when I had the PPP turned off, it was on this morning, so something triggered it.

I did put the PPP on other circuits throughout the house and its the same THD reading everywhere.

Power co. says someone will give me a call to discuss before sending somebody out.
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4krow
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #56 - 05/01/14 at 17:15:24
 
 Well, I wouldn't be opposed to you trying different things to see their influence on the problem. It will give more information for you to use. I just remember that when I had such issues with my PPP, I finally decided to go another route. In fact, I have ended up with the older P500 unit with no issues so far. Having said that, I encourage you to explore all other possibilities first. If this is a doable thing, then it is well worth keeping with the PPP.
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Lon
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #57 - 05/01/14 at 17:49:49
 
To be honest, I think there's a good chance the problem is outside the PPP. Good idea to get the power company out there. I've had nothing like that happen with my PPP. Every now and then I get some clicking that lasts a few minutes and goes away for weeks.

I don't recommend those Tripplite transformers, they added a hash to my system.
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Palomino
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #58 - 05/21/14 at 14:15:34
 
Well, just an update.  The unit has been running very steady recently so I checked the THD.  It was at 3.6%, down from running consistently in the 8-10% range.

I called the Power company a couple weeks ago, but they never got back to me.  They may have sent someone out without my knowledge.

Anyway, it will be hard to part with this unit if I do end up sending it in.  My cottage system just does not sound nearly as good and I believe one significant variable is that PPP not being in the system.  The other being room treatments.  I think I need some first reflection point panels for better imaging.
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stone_of_tone
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #59 - 10/09/14 at 21:54:22
 
I'm ordering a P3 Power Plant tomorrow morning.

Pal, did you have to send your Premiere in?

LR, did you settle on using your Pangea AC-9SE from wall to PPlant? I will be using my AC-9SE from wall to P3.
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Palomino
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #60 - 10/09/14 at 22:53:32
 
I did not send my Premiere in.  Once my power stopped being completely insane, it stopped having any issues.

I've been using it at the cottage all summer without a hitch.  I am bringing it home to do more of a comparison to the P300 which I liked better.  Conventional wisdom is that I shouldn't like the P300 more...

I still have the RMA and PS Audio said I can send it in anytime before Feb and its still under warranty.  I'll use it here at home and if it hiccups, I will send it in.  Not going back to the cottage much after this weekend so I don't need two power regenerators at home.


PPP made a big difference in the cottage system sound.  I also got a lift when I brought my AC9 and AC12 up there.  I also schlep the Chord Dac up there as well.  It just sounds so much better than any of my more budget priced DACs its worth the hassle.
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will
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #61 - 10/10/14 at 01:31:55
 
Stone, I imagine you looked at this, but just in case.

I bought the P5 because the HC (high current) receptacle is regenerated. From PS Audio P3 description: "Next was power and to reduce costs the design team chose a smaller power transformer, one that would produce 80% of what a P5 will do. In order to make sure our customers could still operate an entire audio or video system with a single P3 Power Plant, engineering added a High Current zone that could power even the largest of amplifiers or projectors. The HC Zone, as it became known is not regenerated power, but rather filtered and protected only."

I think this means it is not regulated either...that it is "conditioned," and oddly, conditioners are what they are all on about the regenerators being so much better than.

Being able to set the voltage regulation was important here, not just because my house power will change a few volts many days, but because a volt or two makes a notable difference in the tone of the MKIV. Too high, too dense and full/thick for me. If I am correct on this, I was thinking it might matter to you since your system is very revealing and you are particular.

One thing that looks better on the P3 is that the IEC is separated from the first receptacle (HC). On the P5, to fit two of most AC ins in the HC receptacle (like Furutech or wattgate...the round ones) you have to have a different, narrower IEC cord end to power the P5..interestingly, just like a PSAudio IEC cord end.

I was able to squeeze by cutting the rubber tabs off a Pangea SE9 to power the P5, but it was still too tight. The PSA P12 cord works great, but I do not like it or the Pangea nearly as much as the DIY one I made. I guess I need to get a narrow aftermarket IEC, but it sounds great now so I have the MKIV alone in the HC outlet and the CSP3 in the next receptacle.

But that is irrelevant if the P3 works for your needs!
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« Last Edit: 10/10/14 at 01:46:56 by will »  

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stone_of_tone
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #62 - 10/10/14 at 15:49:03
 
Thanks will, for the heads up on all this.

I will be fine with my plug-in's to the  P3...in which two plug-in's are Hubbells; XLO Pro cords from my ZMA an CSP3. The spread does look good an I only have four to get in when using my Chord and five when using my AA gear front end. Yes, I see that they put the IEC to close on the P5 to the HC receptacles.....hello PS! Glad, the P3 is all I need where my Pangea AC-9SE will fit fine from wall to P3.

I like the fact that the HC is NOT regenerated but just filtered an protected only. Essentially, that is all my Adcom 515 is doing...and I want to compare regenerated an NOT regenerated power. Reason being, Steve built the ZMA to have clean power an the HC might sound better than the regenerated receptacle.

The P3 is all I need for my total power needs...a regenerated receptacle can handle the ZMA power consumption an my front end(s)....if I choose not to use the HC for the ZMA.

I look forward to seeing what my power reads from the wall an using the Multiwave vs. Sinewave from the remote too.

Ordered: CableCo...got to love the discount.

PS - glad to hear Pal, you have not had to send in your Premiere/hoping that continues, an the AC9 is a lift.


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....being replaced/will receive next week: PS Audio P3 Power Plant

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« Last Edit: 10/10/14 at 20:10:50 by stone_of_tone »  

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will
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #63 - 10/10/14 at 20:14:38
 
Sounds good Stone. The Toriis have power filtering, though I expect those big ZMA caps take it further. Still, all power filtering I have used can be easily heard. Since the P3 is a lot of the same circuits as the P5, I am afraid you can expect a long time to hear it at its best. The cord that feeds it is a big deal too, worth playing around with. Also, I found feet made a huge dif....My P5 was going back for a long time, but finally I had to make a leap of faith when it was still green and 30 days over. Luckily it did work out for me. I like it with the right cable and after  about 600 hours.
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« Last Edit: 10/10/14 at 20:15:44 by will »  

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Lon
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #64 - 10/10/14 at 20:18:54
 
Good advice will, I find on my PPP that power cord and feet also make a difference, which I still find surprising but hey more experimenting. . . sometimes I like that. (Sometimes I don't!)
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stone_of_tone
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #65 - 10/11/14 at 17:44:48
 
Good advice Will & Lon. I am excited about getting the P3. The last thing I'm purchasing for awhile, until I go to Steve's some time next year to hear the OTL SET he might produce an the HR-1's, Monolith an Bob's new Speaker that was at the Fest'.

What Power Cord from wall to your Power Plant are you using Will an Lon? What Cord from PPlant to Decware? ...an feet under PP.

LR & Palomino too. What are you guys using?
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« Last Edit: 10/11/14 at 17:46:21 by stone_of_tone »  

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Lon
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #66 - 10/11/14 at 18:10:49
 
Although I really like Steve's cords, I started using PS Audio's and worked my way up their line. I got one AC-12 and it was so good with anything that I plugged it into that I just over the course of time found the best deals I could and now every component I have is connected with AC-12. So I have AC-12 to the PowerBase I have the PPP on, to the PPP, to the PowerBase the Torii is on, to the Torii, etc. I just feel I have power cords and power treatment covered for a long time.

After trying several Herbie's Audio Lab footers, I'm using VooDoo Cable Iso-Pod's (the old version, not the new ones that are four times the price and look like Stillpints). They work great under the PPP and under my Rega RP3, I use Herbie's Iso-Cups under everything else.
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« Last Edit: 10/11/14 at 18:42:40 by Lon »  

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stone_of_tone
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #67 - 10/11/14 at 20:29:12
 
Yes, thanks Lon. I realize I could search this info on other past threads. But, it is nice to reiterate it here. I think it is good Karma for anyone just checking in here at the Decware Forums too.

I've had the AC-12...and I should have kept it an just sent back the Moon big Solid State Amp I had in. I will use my Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3. I have been very happy with my XLO Pro/Hubbell...one each to my ZMA an CSP3. I might experiment with those too, for others with the CableCo Cable Bank/Joe. The 9SE, I did not like to my ZMA or CSP3...but might be a good match from wall to P3.
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« Last Edit: 10/11/14 at 20:30:29 by stone_of_tone »  

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will
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #68 - 10/11/14 at 21:16:06
 
Stone. For feet under the P5, I am using Synergistic Research big MIGs I found on sale some time ago and interestingly, I used them under my Uberbuss power conditioner, not really liking them under my amp at the time...too bright there. I am using some small MIGs under my modded Oppo and like them there too. I have Herbies isocups under the Torii and CSP3 now, but they sounded pretty dead under the P5. You got me, but the MIGs have a more alive sound...better openness and fine detail, but also good body and bass within that more open sound. I would call them a good voicing foot if one needs this sound, they are good at it. I felt a great relief when I tried them under the P5 since I had a hard time getting the open micro detail I need from it. If I had not been into exploring, being a bit veiled and colored for me, it would have gone back. Plugging my DAC and computer into a modded Brickwall that is conditioned by a Shunyata Defender really helped too. They were too effected by the P5 sound but opened right up on this separate circuit.

I compared all my cables, including an AC12 with several hundred hours. The Pangea SE9 had good frequency range and detail, but was too dark/warm for me. It came down to the AC12, a Pi Audio 10 AWG with gold Furutech ends, and new 8 AWG DIY. In the big picture, the AC12 was quite good, but not much comparison between it and the DIY cable I am using now. Sort of mixing the wirewound conductor and ground twisting setup with PSAudio and Pangea conductor number and gauge variety, it has many conductors of different gauges of silver on copper teflon wire and Rhodium ends. I got lucky, but it is really good! I was impressed that I could not hear my cable. It just seemed like unrestricted, uncolored flow of everything in the music. I did hear the AC12, open and deep, but by comparison, I don't know how to describe it...maybe like it had an odd sense of differentiation of frequency areas, at least going into the P5.

I don't know if you caught the following thread, but it segues into numerous power areas including PSAudio, also including my own saga with the P5. There is a description of my cable at post 43.... I think it was about 160-70 for parts, though getting the ends on a deep sale was a big savings.

http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1400749087/30

To my amp I am using a Neotech DIY with gold plated ends and Neotech's 11 AWG cable. I watch partsconnexion for sales. I got the old style gold AC and IEC for 20 each like the Rhodiums.

http://www.partsconnexion.com/wire_ac_neotech.html

If you search there for Neotech, I think you can find the Rhodium Ends I got, now for 40 each.

I will be interested in your impressions of the P3. If it is like the P5, time and cables are bigtime, and cables a major tuning tool, more so than I have heard into anything else.
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« Last Edit: 10/12/14 at 00:38:45 by will »  

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stone_of_tone
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #69 - 10/12/14 at 15:41:23
 
Thanks will for the input an the point to these Threads. I will digest the Wireworld Thread/impressions... . The P3 allowing my System to sound its best...anytime of day that I decide to enjoy it is my goal. So, worth the Power Cord efforts going forward. Plus, burn in time for all as well.

Ultimately, the ZMA might be doing just fine with Steve's Power design for it. So, if the P3 ends up taking residents in my HT Rig 8 months from now....it will be a very good thing for that System.
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« Last Edit: 10/12/14 at 16:05:07 by stone_of_tone »  

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Lonely Raven
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #70 - 10/13/14 at 01:14:59
 
Sorry to be chiming in so late, but I've been out of town since Decfest.

I have the P10, I'm using the Pangea AC9SE between the wall and the P10, then a Wireworld Electra power cable between the P10 and the Mystery amp.

With the mystery amp, I find power products to have very little improvement. There is some, but not as much as with other amps and gear. I get a bigger lift from the DAC and other gear being on the P10 for sure. So don't limit yourself to having only the amp on a Regenerator.  

I also went one step further and wired a dedicated line from the breaker panel in the basement, up to a PS Audio Solo outlet in the music room, using basically Zen Styx 8AWG wire.  :) I did get a bigger lift from doing this (better noise floor and slightly better dynamics) then I did from any power cables. And it only cost me a couple hundred.
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« Last Edit: 10/13/14 at 01:19:23 by Lonely Raven »  
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stone_of_tone
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #71 - 10/13/14 at 16:00:24
 
Good to read Eric. I will be using my AC-9SE from wall to P3. Yes, my main intension of getting the P3 is for my Digital Front end(s) an my CSP3. The design of the ZMA lends itself to clean power. Not surprised only a minor lift noticed for ZMA.

So, I got a new toy coming for the long winter. I might put a few hundred hours on it in my HT rig first. Sony XBR 850b, DVR an Rotel etc...etc... .
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #72 - 10/22/14 at 15:39:14
 
Tracking number received for my P3. FedEx will have it here on Friday.
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #73 - 10/22/14 at 16:00:59
 
Good news! Hope it brings you the joy that my PPP brings me.
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #74 - 10/22/14 at 20:48:48
 

Has anyone tried the PS Audio re-generators in contrast to the TrippLite gear that Steve uses?
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #75 - 10/22/14 at 20:59:19
 
Yes. In my system, for years, the Tripplite was adding a hash that put an edge to the sound that Rad noticed first in his and I noticed when I replaced the Tripplites (I was using two, one each for digital and analog) with the Power Plant Premier.

In my opinion, in my then system in my house in Austin, there was no contest, the Power Plant Premier gave me considerably better sound.
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #76 - 10/22/14 at 22:32:27
 
I have a lab grade Tripp Lite Line Conditioner, and Hospital grade Isolation transformer. I've not heard the hash that Lon talks about, but then my power is unusually clean, and unusually high in my area, and the wiring to my room was already shielded (conduit), dedicated circuit with a dedicated ground. So I had a lot of things going for me.

The P10 helped me bring my power down to a proper 120v (it was typically 125v, and sometimes more!), and dropped my distortion to .1% which resulted in blacker blacks.

What the newer power regenerators are designed around though, is low impedance, and lots of instantly available current. That lower impedance makes the amp feel like it has instant access to unlimited power, which results in better/faster dynamics. But then, that's what the big caps on the Mystery Amp do as well, which is why the P10 isn't shockingly good for my amp. It does benefit all the other gear, and my home theater system though.

I wouldn't change a thing I've done though. 8AWG wires in the walls, P10, and decent (but not crazy) power cables- all made some small improvement, and give a great foundation that I don't have to worry about or fuss over.  Just like the Mystery Amp - it's rock solid, it does it's job perfectly, and now I can move on and "worry" about something else.   Grin
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« Last Edit: 10/22/14 at 22:34:47 by Lonely Raven »  
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #77 - 10/23/14 at 01:40:10
 
I should have my P3 Friday. I read about the difference or maybe improvements for the P3. I figured with the investments I made in my System this past year to get closer to my music-it was time to get a power plant.

Always something though, I have my Jones on again for the Acoustic Zen Adagio's... . I might bring them in after putting 300 hours on my P3.
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #78 - 10/23/14 at 12:05:34
 
Awesome news on the P3 Stone.  It's always exciting to pick up a new piece of gear.  I, like the others, don't even think about my power with the P5 in my setup.  It's just not something I worry about.  When I was thinking about building another system, it did have me thinking about what I was going to do for power.  I was actually considering battery powered gear (Red Wine, Vinnie Rossi)  

If you haven't heard the Acoustic Zen Adagio's I think you are in for quite a treat. Very natural and musical sounding speakers.  Great timbre, tone.  They are an easy load for tube amps.  Slightly lower in efficiency than I would like for my room, but that is minor.  In this case, I do think there is a reason these speakers got so many good reviews.   If you talk to Robert (and I suggest that you do), he might suggest you don't need to add a sub, but I would leave that open if down the road you feel as if you need a bit more 'foundation'.

Have fun!
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #79 - 10/23/14 at 16:54:40
 
No doubt Dave, the P3 coming for Friday night, will be fun to get her in my System.

The Adagio's have intrigued me for quite some time. I have reached out to Upscale (today) an I will see if Underwood Wally wants to deal... . If not, my rebuilt SDA1's are singing sweetly an concise. Man, I love the ZMA with my CSP3.
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« Last Edit: 10/23/14 at 17:47:01 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #80 - 10/23/14 at 17:41:03
 
Stone,

Post a Pic of your SDA1's if you get a chance sometime.
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #81 - 10/23/14 at 17:47:58
 
You bet, DBC, I  just did my Room up for the better. I have been meaning to post pics forever... .

On a different note-but fun: Martin Logan is making the rounds with their new CLX Art Speakers. The October Tour was Burbank 10/4, Houston 10/11, Columbia MD 10/18 an here in my City, Oakdale MN 10/25...12 to 4pm (Best Buy/Magnolia-gig). They will be run with big Mac Mono's. I need to hear um'. Seeing whom an how they are set up, should be a treat..... .
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« Last Edit: 10/23/14 at 17:48:39 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #82 - 10/24/14 at 23:31:02
 
Well, FedEx delivered my P3 right on time today/Friday, at 1:30 pm CST, matter of fact. I however, was not here as I planned to be to sign an take possession of.

I had not been feeling well since Tuesday night. I thought I might have a pulled muscle in my abdomen. I drove to the emergency room yesterday on a hunch...something is wrong? Sure enough, their was something wrong. I had my Appendix about to rupture...an off to surgery I went!  All is well, an I actually got discharged today with my drug scrips'. I write here from my desk top at home-thanks goodness. Get me out of that hospital! Great staff an a great surgeon-I just don't like hospitals-most don't right?! I follow up with my surgeon in two weeks.

Well, my P3 is out for delivery tomorrow (love FedEx considers Tuesday thru Saturday business days-Home Delivery). I can't lift it. My girlfriend Sue is a pretty hardy gal. She can help me with it tomorrow. My recovery will be some serious inert music listening an enjoyment.
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« Last Edit: 10/24/14 at 23:33:46 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #83 - 10/25/14 at 00:20:10
 
Wow Larr, glad to hear you have that behind you and are home! If you have to let the P3 sit a while do so, safety and health first right!

Glad you have your gal to help take care of you. I am so blessed to have my Lucinda, I've been lucky to have had a great woman at the center of my life so much of my life, I think women make us better, save us and strengthen us. Get completely well and enjoy the music!
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #84 - 10/25/14 at 00:46:52
 
Stone. Glad you had that feeling and got sorted out....I think hospitals are pretty scary too!

Glad you are home, and enjoy the music spell. Thank goodness for great music-making gear! Lucky, those of us who can enjoy recovery with such fine musical experiences!
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« Last Edit: 10/25/14 at 00:47:30 by will »  

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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #85 - 10/25/14 at 01:00:04
 
Stone.  Glad to hear you are feeling better and are on the road to recovery.  I wish you the best!  I am sure some great music will help keep your spirits up.  Cheers!
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #86 - 10/25/14 at 17:21:35
 
Thanks, Lon, Will & Dave...appreciate it.
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #87 - 10/27/14 at 15:49:47
 
I got the P3 in yesterday morning. I like it! After about 6 hours (6 Cd's) yesterday...she started to show the goods. I have 17+ on her now. Multiwave is on baby!

Running Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3.
Voltage from wall is 123 volts.
Multiwave on.... .
Drawing 52 watts in P3 with Transport, Chord QuteHD DAC an CSP3.
I have my ZMA into the HC (High Current) plug. I will try it in Regeneration receptacle after awhile....to see if I can hear single variable pin point change for ZMA.
At low volume I bump the voltage from 120 to 115/improves depth of soundstage at low volume-I've noticed.
I use the 5 second degaussing periodically too of course.

Well, it is nice to see a product under constant development deliver on its promise: No squashing of dynamics...or timbre an tone harm. The P3 gets out of the way an delivers more musical detail with deep-deep blacks to the background. I figured this might me the next piece for me after going all Kimber Select with the CSP3 & ZMA. It is/was. An obviously, it has some break in to go! Like 500 hours or so.

It truly lets my Polks SDA1's shine too. However, I'm a music lover an audiophile right? After I heal up from my surgery here...I'm bringing in a pair of Acoustic Zen Adagio's/Burl Maple.
Then, I'm going to chill out an just Listen for a couple of years. Yeah right, ....can you say OTL SET Decware?! ....because inquirying minds want to know an hear it! This does not mean it will replace my ZMA though.


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« Last Edit: 10/27/14 at 15:57:51 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #88 - 10/27/14 at 15:56:43
 

Oh wow, I didn't realize the High Current sockets on the P3 were only filters - on the P10, they have regeneration, and current inrush limiters to help with completely drained caps (which I would probably have to worry about with the ZMA if I didn't use it all the time.  :) )
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #89 - 10/27/14 at 16:03:32
 
Yes, I would not have bought a PS Power Plant, if they did not stop Regenerating all sockets. It was a big complaint. Because of potential dynamics squashing power to your power amp. Albeit, a huge mongo SS, or our ZMA's, in which we know my HC will be all that is needed. But, I'll see/hear when I Regenerate to the ZMA eventually.

I need to see how many watts it draws + the 52 when I decide to Regenerate to the ZMA. No worries, it will have plenty of room to work with on the P3. I'm just curious...I don't remember if Steve listed how much the ZMA draws (150 watts or so I reckon).
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« Last Edit: 10/27/14 at 16:11:13 by stone_of_tone »  

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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #90 - 10/27/14 at 16:28:55
 
Glad you are digging it! Quite a foundation for your system!
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #91 - 10/27/14 at 20:55:26
 
Yeah, the draw on the ZMA isn't much surprisingly - but I agree, it's the transients that I'd be worried about. Part of why I did the Go Big or Go Home method of power foundation. LOL

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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #92 - 10/28/14 at 04:45:17
 
I have a P5... and the manual says the "high current" outlets(zone D on the P5) are identical in function as the other outlets... including regeneration and "in addition" have an in-rush limiter which brings the full AC up slowly.

Observing the power draw meter on my P5 reveals that a Decware Torii is a "Class A" amplifier, in that it draws the same power at idle or at full volume.  I also had a large class A/B arc welder of an amp(Aragon 8008BB) which I had attached to my P5 at one time.  It only drew 25 watts at idle per the P5's meter, but as the volume knob went up, so did the draw on the P5's meter to over 400 watts at a comfortably loud listening level.  As soon as the volume went down, so did the meter on the P5.

My Torii Mk.3 shows that it draws about 150 watts whether it is just on, with no music playing, or with the volume at party levels.  Its power draw does not vary with volume - as is the case with any Class A amplifier.

So there is no need to worry about dynamic "current limiting" with the PS regenerators unless you are running class A/B 1,000 watt solid state monoblocs or something.  This is a situation that does not exist for a Class A amp of the power ratings we're talking about here.  Other than within its own circuitry, but a PS regenerator can't do anything about that.

If your PS regenerator does not trip its internal relay briefly or instantly turn on its fan when you hit the "on" switch on your Class A amp - then you're good to go - it will have no problem supplying power to your amp at any volume level or under any music dynamic conditions.  A Class A amp circuit, is by definition, making full power all the time - it either delivers that power to the load, or it is expended as heat.
 
I have an entire rack of equipment plugged into one P5.  Most all other components have constant power draw so increasing power draw as the volume goes up or under dynamic conditions is not an issue there either.

You would be stunned and amazed to know that I currently have one pre/pro, three preamplifiers, a CD player, two DACS, a Burson Buffer, a Sirius receiver, a Torii and a ClassDaudio amp all plugged into one P5 that is plugged into one dedicated 20 amp line.  "Yes"... I know the P5 doesn't have that many outlets.  I have several of the less critical components plugged into an Emotiva powerstrip that is then plugged into one outlet on the P5.
Obviously I'm not actually using all of these components at the same time(I'm doing some evaluations), but they are all plugged in and at least in their "standby" modes all the time.  Ironically or not, my older Theta Digital CD player draws 55 watts in standby and also when its "on"(its claimed to have Class A analog outputs - guess it does).  All the other components together only draw 44 additional watts.  Checking my P5 just now,  with my Torii turned off, it shows a draw of 99 watts steady as a rock.  I actually had the pre/pro on with Sirius running thru it, just no amp on.  When I switch on my Torii, the meter jumps up and bounces around too fast to read for just a second or two and then settles at 252 watts, and it stays right there whether any music is playing or if I turn up the volume until my ears scream uncle - power draw remains the same, doesn't budge a single watt.

Now I suppose... that the P5's meter does not register fast enough to reflect every little change.  But neither does the power supply in your amp - that's what the power supply capacitors do - smooth the power ebb and flow.  But given the fact that I have observed the behavior of my P5 with a few class A/B solid state amps.  And then subsequently watched how it behaved with a couple of class A tube amps, I think its safe to say "dynamic" power demands of lower power Class A tube amps, such as Decware's, is a non-issue.  And certainly 252 watts steady draw is well below the P5's capacity and well below the load that one 20 amp circuit can supply.  Having everything on one circuit also makes for one extremely quiet system, no chance of ground loops.  I have 98db efficiency speakers, and with my ear only an inch away I can barely detect any hiss or residual noise at any setting of the volume control.  I also have a pair of vintage Klipsh at 101db efficiency - still no noise.  I'm sure the P5 has something to do with this also, as inserting it into the system produces more "rez" across the frequency range, blacker backgrounds, hearing farther into the recording and ambiance in the recordings that I never noticed before along with increased dynamics, especially micro, but even macro dynamics are notably improved.  I consider the P5 an "essential" part of my system.  I had a PS Powerplant premier before this P5 and I was sold then.

LR... check the power draw of your ZMA on your P10 - I'm curious.  Typically Class A amps are only about 25% efficient.  If my P5's meter is any indication, either my Torii is less than average in efficiency, or putting out more power than its 26 watt rating Steve puts on it.
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #93 - 10/28/14 at 19:28:27
 

I'll check the draw when I get home. I'm on the road for work today.
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #94 - 10/29/14 at 21:24:56
 
Four days in on the P3, an it ain't no BS...this P3 is squeezing the musical juice out of my System. As sweetly as my folks South Texas Oranges an Tangerines from their backyard.

Next up: Stealth Audio Cables - Metacarbon IC RCA!  (between my CSP3 & ZMA)

http://www.stealthaudiocables.com/products/carbon/metacarbon.htm
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #95 - 10/29/14 at 21:35:41
 
Glad you are digging it Lar.
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #96 - 11/03/14 at 19:32:58
 
Oh yeah, the P3 will never leave!

I went an did it. I got my Adagio's!  Kevin is a cool guy. I grabbed an image picture at random of the color I got. I look forward to tube rolling my pre tubes with a quad from Kevin's choices at Upscale.

http://img.canuckaudiomart.com/uploads/large/661764-acoustic_zen_adagio_in_black...
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #97 - 11/04/14 at 01:43:14
 

Those are nice looking!
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #98 - 11/04/14 at 11:56:55
 
Wow, those look great and they are going to sound even better!  Hopefully the wait isn't too long to get them into your music room.  Do you plan to break them in a little bit on the Emo before moving them into your main system?  I bet the ZMA + Adagios = Amazing Music.  Looking forward to your impressions Stone.
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #99 - 11/04/14 at 14:40:38
 
Hi Dave, I should have them by next Monday or Tuesday. I did break in my 2nd Kimber 1030 IC recently between my Rotel an Emo. However, I am bringing the Adagio's right in to the Listening Room. I will let them burn in with me passively going in an out of the Room/clocking the hours on them. I am continuing to put some serious hours this week on my P3...so the Adagio's will be the relative newbe to tackle. I paid a very fair price for them too. To be able to run them with 10 to 100 watts/ch of Tube power with ease....is the hallmark of this Speaker! You just throw the misleading Specs out on these... .


Listening Room:
Room Treatments from Michael Green & Home Brew
Sony as Transport
Illuminati D-60 (.5 meter)
Chord Chordette QuteHD DAC ---~or~
Audio Alchemy front-end/Prophecy Cryo i2s
Kimber Select KS1030 IC RCA (.75 meter)
Decware CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps
Kimber Select KS1030 IC RCA (.5 meter)
Decware Zen Mystery Amplifier
Kimber Select KS3035 Speaker Cable
Acoustic Zen Adagio Speakers
XLO Pro Power Cords to CSP3 & ZMA
PS Audio P3 Power Plant / Pangea AC-9SE from wall to P3

Decware SE84CS (w/NOS Svetlana SV83's from 1980's-not the New Sensor knock-offs) & Decware Super Zen CKC...when SE Pentodes run in Triode/Decware Style...needs to be in the System!

Decware 6C33C SET Mono-blocks.....pending 2015
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« Last Edit: 11/04/14 at 15:05:54 by stone_of_tone »  

Sony as Transport
Illuminati D-60
Audio Alchemy DTI-Pro
Audio Magic Mystic Reference I2S
Audio Alchemy DDE 3.0
Kimber Select 1030
Zen Select #76
Kimber Select 3033
Polk Audio LS-90
Tri-config/TipToes & Vibropods underneath Speakers
360 degree Rm Treats
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