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Power Regeneration & Decware Amps (Read 4002 times)
Palomino
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Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
03/11/14 at 19:33:44
 
I wanted to offer my observations for fellow Decwarians on the addition of a power regenerator to my setup.  

I know there are differing opinions out there about power filtering versus regeneration, but I jumped into the regeneration camp after hearing Lonely Raven’s PS Audio P10 on my Rachael.  It just produced a huge improvement in soundstage, dynamics and my favorite, the bass lines.  So much more articulate.

Well, I didn’t have a spare $3-$4K sitting around so I sought out opinions on PS Audio’s smaller units and their earlier models.  I ended up with a used Power Plant Premier that had been refurb’d and came with a 12 month factory warranty.

I got nearly the same impact with this older unit and I think if you can afford one of the new models or find a reliable one used, it is definitely worth the money.

Beyond the marketing literature, I believe these units help Decware amps kind of like the way the huge caps help the ZMA.  It’s better, smoother delivery of cleaner power.  The ZMA still has more wattage to get the most out of every note, but you come closer to the ZMA with lesser power amps with good power feeding them.  And in line with the marketing hype, these units really do deliver late night listening benefits all day long.

I have found over time when my power is the worst and unfortunately it’s exactly at the time when I listen at night.  The PPP measures the THD of the incoming power and it ranges from low 6% in the early morning to a high of over 9% at 7:00 at night.  And I just looked at my home’s wiring schematic and found out that the power to my listening room is on a separate circuit!   So its that bad on essentially a dedicated circuit.  The PPP cleans up the output to .3% to .5% THD.

So maybe I see bigger benefits to the PPP because my power is just that bad.  Maybe others can weigh in on this.

Currently I am trying to figure out what power cord to run the PPP with.  I have found it is extremely sensitive to power cords and I quickly sorted out the five I have.  Two are banished from my main system forever and I am suspect of two others although one I am still using on my source.

Picking out power cords is my idea of hell, so if anyone has any suggestions, I am open.  I have had good recommendations on the PS Audio cords.  Anything above a AC5 is probably out of my budget.

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Mac Mini with Adirvana, Onkyo ND-S1 Digital Transport (modified) with linear power supply, iPod Classic, Chord QuteHD with Linear Power Supply, Signal Cable Digital Coax, Decware ICs, SE34I.32, PS Audio Power Plant Premier, PS Audio Power Cords, DIY Speakers
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Lon
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #1 - 03/11/14 at 19:47:46
 
Congrats! I'm so happy that is working out for you.

I find that swapping power cords with the PPP and after the PPP is even more influential on system sound than tube-rolling. You can drive yourself crazy! I did recommend the AC-5 if that's the top of your budget. After a LOT of crawling around and experimenting over months my conclusion is that power cords can really matter, and that putting the best one between the PPP and the wall has always worked out best for me.
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,
PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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Palomino
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #2 - 03/11/14 at 19:53:17
 
Yeah, I may have mentioned this to you in a PM, but I was not getting half the impact I heard with the P10 using one of my DIY cords between the wall and the PPP.  

When I changed out to a better cord, I got a lot closer.  I think there is more there still with the right cord.

I also think I agree with you on your power cord versus tube rolling comment.
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Mac Mini with Adirvana, Onkyo ND-S1 Digital Transport (modified) with linear power supply, iPod Classic, Chord QuteHD with Linear Power Supply, Signal Cable Digital Coax, Decware ICs, SE34I.32, PS Audio Power Plant Premier, PS Audio Power Cords, DIY Speakers
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Palomino
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #3 - 03/14/14 at 14:24:53
 
Lon, a couple more observations on the PPP.

Given the increase in fidelity the unit adds, it makes deciding between things like tubes and interconnects much easier.  Differences don't seem as subtle.

I put my KT88s back in to see what they sounded like.  Imaging really went down considerably.  So back in the EL34s went.  Maybe its the Hazen mod I can now definitively hear.

I swapped out interconnects and my non-zen's were dark with no extension at all.  Back in went the Zens.

Also, I may need to rebalance the room a bit.  More stronger bass has returned some booming on certain songs.

Anyway, I am still in my honeymoon period with the PPP but it really seems to place a different (and better) lens on my system.  

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Mac Mini with Adirvana, Onkyo ND-S1 Digital Transport (modified) with linear power supply, iPod Classic, Chord QuteHD with Linear Power Supply, Signal Cable Digital Coax, Decware ICs, SE34I.32, PS Audio Power Plant Premier, PS Audio Power Cords, DIY Speakers
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Lon
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #4 - 03/14/14 at 15:56:42
 
I experienced very similar reactions, and having the PPP made me go over the whole system and wring out even more juicy musical playback.

The next step for me would have been room treatment but then I heeded my inner call to come take care of my parents and I am going to be a renter for some years to come so a whole different set up and yet really good sound. . . I really feel the PPP is the lynchpin that holds it all together.
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,
PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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4krow
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #5 - 03/18/14 at 20:07:02
 
My experience with PS Audio power regeneraters is all good. I might be one of the few who like the P300 best. I have owned three different PS Audio regenerators in all, including the PPP, but the PPP continued to have trouble, so I got it fixed and then sold it. The fact that you are experiencing 6-9% THD tells me that you have nothing but good things to hear after it is lowered to .5% The older PS units are balanced power output which I highly regard as well. I wouldn't run a system without one in any case. Not to mention the benefit of the tube wave as well.
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Decware 34I.3 integrated amp/Forte' 3 bass amp/Velodyne SMS-1 bass mngmnt system/Decware ZOB speakers/BESL subs/Emotiva ERC3 CD player/BPT 3.0 power cond. PS Audio P500
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Lonely Raven
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #6 - 03/18/14 at 20:50:34
 

What is the "tube wave"? Maybe they call it something different on the P10?
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4krow
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #7 - 03/19/14 at 00:52:19
 
Not so sure that it exists in the new units. It is made of a pattern of AC waves that have 'tube friendly' harmonics. This is mixed with another pattern that is known as #2. Sorry if that isn't quite right, but suffice it to say that this was a combination of superimposed waves from the multi-wave II+ pack deemed to be best for tube applications.
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Decware 34I.3 integrated amp/Forte' 3 bass amp/Velodyne SMS-1 bass mngmnt system/Decware ZOB speakers/BESL subs/Emotiva ERC3 CD player/BPT 3.0 power cond. PS Audio P500
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Lon
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #8 - 03/19/14 at 01:43:51
 
I believe in the "xStream" power cords from PS Audio there is ferrite impregnated in the jacket. In the "PerfectWave" series (Jewel, AC-3. -5, -10 and -12--the Jewel and the -10 have been discontinued) there is no longer ferrite.

I have a few of the xStream Statement cables in use, both with my guitar amplification (one feeds a PS Audio Duet that my amp and my reverb head are connected to, one feeds the Fender Bassman TV Fifteen amp I use). They're pretty awesome and they make my guitar tones sing! I have xStream Premier SC, AC-5 and AC-10 cords in my second system as well as My Audio Cable Burly cables. My main system is all PerfectWave AC-12, and I don't anticipate replacing any of those, they're amazing.
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« Last Edit: 03/19/14 at 01:45:40 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,
PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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Palomino
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #9 - 03/19/14 at 14:20:45
 
Well I got my first power cord to try from the Cable Co.  An oldie, but supposedly a goodie the Synergistic Research AC Master Coupler Power Cord.  According to legend, this is the cord that put power cords on the audiophile radar.  I decided to give it a try because the sales pitch is that cord came out before copper prices ran up and used, it’s supposed to be a lot of cord for the money.  It’s actually below my budget.

The difference was immediately apparent, but not necessarily in a good way.  The cord hit like a freight train, but I found the bass too boomy and unfocused.  It also cast a nice big soundstage, but it too was not that focused.  Highs seemed rolled off as well.  I’d describe it as a warm sounding cord, probably too warm for a tube amp setup.

What I’m about to say is a power cord non-believer’s evidence of subjective hearing, but after an hour or so, this cord seemed to tighten up in the bass and the imaging seemed to improve.  How can that be?  Where there was nearly distortion before, is full, but tuneful bass.  Soundstage is still big, but there is good focus.  Highs still seem rolled off though.  Mids about the same.

So maybe I just have the powerful suggestive imagination that the anti-cord people speak of, or maybe this cord warmed up or my entire system somehow came into balance?  The amp had been on for hours and only shut off to plug/unplug for A/B comparisons.

I don’t think I will keep this cord, but I’m willing to leave it my system for a while.  I went from this “this baby is coming out today” to “hmmm, it has some redeeming qualities.”  At a minimum, its helping me learn what I want from a power cord.

So on this versus my existing DIY cord: bass slam - improvement.  Musical bass – about the same, but fuller.  Sound stage, - improvement.  Imaging – same.  Nuetrality, so far a no.
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« Last Edit: 03/19/14 at 14:21:23 by Palomino »  

Mac Mini with Adirvana, Onkyo ND-S1 Digital Transport (modified) with linear power supply, iPod Classic, Chord QuteHD with Linear Power Supply, Signal Cable Digital Coax, Decware ICs, SE34I.32, PS Audio Power Plant Premier, PS Audio Power Cords, DIY Speakers
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Lon
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #10 - 03/19/14 at 14:36:08
 
You know, I don't know why, but I do find that cords that have been not in use for some time take some hours to focus and start to "be all they can be."

Electrical engineers probably think that's impossible, but I'm not an electrical engineer and 'what I know" doesn't stop me from experiencing some things.

I used to be a skeptic about a lot of cabling and isolation and power treatment things. . . and I still am about some products and claims about them. But I've learned to esperience my experiences and make evaluations from those.

Sounds like you now have two reference points: your DIY cord, and this one. A few more cords would be even more educational perhaps. It IS sort of fun, isn't it?
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,
PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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Palomino
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #11 - 03/19/14 at 15:32:31
 
Yes it is.  My original attitude was I am going into Power Cord hell, but now I have "chillaxed" as my kids say and am enjoying the journey.

I simply don't understand how people can't hear a power cord difference.  Like I said, the changes aren't always for the better, but they change.  Thanks for helping me understand that I am not completely delusional on the change in this latest power cord.

I also hope to compare this cord to Eric's Pangea.  Cable Co. has a library of cords.  You pay shipping on the trials.
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Mac Mini with Adirvana, Onkyo ND-S1 Digital Transport (modified) with linear power supply, iPod Classic, Chord QuteHD with Linear Power Supply, Signal Cable Digital Coax, Decware ICs, SE34I.32, PS Audio Power Plant Premier, PS Audio Power Cords, DIY Speakers
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Lon
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"Love without
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #12 - 03/19/14 at 16:06:01
 
That really does seem like a reasonable way to get a base of experience with different cables. I've never used their lending program, but I have bought from them and their sister company (usedcables.com). And I have gotten good, very on target advice from Ethan who seems the one who answers the phone and emails.
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,
PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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Lonely Raven
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #13 - 03/19/14 at 16:56:22
 

You're welcome to try out the Pangea whenever you want. Keep in mind I'm out of town from early Monday morning to late Tuesday night, and I'm happy to use the factory cord (or one of my Zen Styx DIY) while you sample the Pangea I have.

I'm still looking for one power cord myself. I have Pangea between wall and P10, I need a really good cord between P10 and ZMA. Maybe something nice between P10 and Oppo as well.

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Lonely Raven
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Re: Power Regeneration & Decware Amps
Reply #14 - 03/19/14 at 16:58:06
 
I forgot to add - static is supposed to play a part in power cables. It takes a bit for all that static from shipping, and setup in your system to work it's way out. That's why you see these high end systems with wood blocks/bridges under their power and speaker cords. It's supposed to physically isolate them from the static inducing carpet. Moving/Adjusting a cable once set induces static again, and they need to "warm up" all over again.



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« Last Edit: 03/19/14 at 16:59:37 by Lonely Raven »  
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