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10/24/14 at 14:02:18


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Mini Torii sound compared to Rachael (Read 1790 times)
busterfree
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Re: Mini Torii sound compared to Rachael
Reply #15 - 02/25/14 at 01:25:50
 
Quote:
When you compare your four Decware amps, does the Rachael sound fall kind of midway between the two SE84s and the Mini Torii, or is it more similar to the two SE84s, or more similar to the Mini Torii? What do you like best about the Rachael? Do you ever use the treble cut on the MT, e.g., for streaming music?


Rachael is closer to the SE84s than the Mini Torii, but we are talking minor differences. I think speaker matching plays into it as well. The Rachael plays well with the Traps, but the SE84s are a better match. Consider that I bought the Rachael to use with a difference 8 ohm speaker that is in storage.

I do not use treble cut at all. I do not stream. At my desktop system, I only spin disks with PWT and PWD.
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busterfree
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Re: Mini Torii sound compared to Rachael
Reply #16 - 02/25/14 at 01:36:26
 
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Once in a while, we get a thread like this comparing Decware amps.  While we use words like "missing" "lacking" "better" "worse", I think it's worth reminding people that these comparisons are all relative on a small scale.  Those who own more than one these amps know that.  My SuperZen has more speed and clarity than my Torii3.  My Torii 3 has more bottom end weight and balls than the super zen.  They are both amazing sounding amps. I use my zen in a small office with trapeziums and never max out the volume. I use my tori in a large open space with HDT's and never max out the volume.  Both systems make music sound "Real" and very engaging.  Compared to many other amp brands.... the differences are bigger.

In short, these are all great amps.  It's easy to get too stuck on the relatively smaller differences.  


I totally agree. I am usually do not comment on the differences and try to enjoy the music. The differences are so small, and you sometimes feel like you are nit picking on amp that did nothing wrong.

I rather point out design differences to steer one to a particular amp. For example, I bought the mini torii for its preamp stage, dual mono, preamp out design, small footprint, tube regulation, and low heat.

I bought the SE84CKCS because my other SE84 did so well with my Traps, not because the SE84 was lacking something.
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nightsky
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Re: Mini Torii sound compared to Rachael
Reply #17 - 02/25/14 at 04:37:05
 
Thanks for your thoughts everyone. I started this thread hoping to get a better sense of how the Mini Torii sounds relative to the SE34 and SE84, and thanks to your comments, I feel like I got it.

I started reading about the Decware amps about a year ago. For a long time the Rachael was the one I wanted, mainly because it has more WPC than the others in my price range. I was thinking that with the Rachael I could probably use conventional two-way speakers with ~90 dB sensitivity, e.g., a pair of Tannoy monitors I already have, Paradigms, PSBs, etc.

Opinions about high sensitivity speakers - horns, single driver, and other designs - are mixed; they get panned for being shouty or rolled off, and this made me reluctant to try them. Getting over that hurdle took some time, but after reading a lot of positive reviews about the Omegas, as well as the Zu, Decware, and Tekton speakers, I decided to bite the bullet and order some Omegas for a tryout. I should have them in a couple weeks, and am looking forward to hearing them. Louis at Omega has warned me that they will need 80 - 100 hours of break-in before the frequency response flattens out.

When I ordered the Omegas, I had all but decided to order an SE84. But doubts about the single driver speakers possibly being tipped up started creeping in. That made me look hard at the Mini Torii, with its
treble cut and other attractive features (low heat, tube rolling options, pre-outs, and higher WPC and built in preamp for more oomph).

As attractive as the Mini Torii is though, I've decided to go with the SE84CKC, and placed an order today. Hearing those of you who have compared it with other Decware amps in your own rooms talk about how amazing it sounds decided it for me. Thanks so much for your input. Now I just have to ... wait.   Smiley

-Michael
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beowulf
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Re: Mini Torii sound compared to Rachael
Reply #18 - 02/25/14 at 05:12:16
 
Which would play better with an 8 ohm speaker?

a. The Rachel

or

b. Super Zen with the 2-6 ohm transformer (I believe its also referred to as Output Transformer A)?

I always heard that the Super Zen is voiced in particular and sounds better with the "A" transformer. But if one's speakers mostly lie within 8 ohms range how would transformer "A" perform?  Would you still try the "A" transformer?

Thanks guys!
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DBC
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Re: Mini Torii sound compared to Rachael
Reply #19 - 02/25/14 at 16:13:21
 
Quote:
Which would play better with an 8 ohm speaker?

a. The Rachel

or

b. Super Zen with the 2-6 ohm transformer (I believe its also referred to as Output Transformer A)?

I always heard that the Super Zen is voiced in particular and sounds better with the "A" transformer. But if one's speakers mostly lie within 8 ohms range how would transformer "A" perform?  Would you still try the "A" transformer?


I have a 12 year old Zen that has the original 2-6 Ohm output transformers and a 2 year old Super Zen with the 6-16 Ohm output transformers.  My Klipsch RF-7 mains are a nominal 8 Ohms but do have some dips well below that.

I went with 6-16 Ohm output transformers on the Super Zen because more speakers fall within that range. Thought this would give me more options if I ever wanted to try other speakers.

Out of the box The Super Zen clearly sounded better than my Original Zen. I was not expecting this type of obvious improvement. With use (break-in) things got better, the upgrade was a great investment.

The Super Zen also seems to have more muscle (plays louder) compared to the Original Zen with my RF-7's. May be the 6-16 Ohm output transformers with my speakers, I don't know.

I've not heard the Super Zen with 2-6 Ohm output transformers on my speakers. All I can say is that my Super Zen with 6-16 Ohm output transformers elevated the level of Transparency & Clarity in my system. As a result I have never questioned the choice to go with the 6-16 transformers.
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Oppo BDP-83SE, SE84CKC amp, Klipsch RF-7 mains, HSU MBM-12 MK2 mid bass module, HSU ULS-15 sub
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beowulf
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Re: Mini Torii sound compared to Rachael
Reply #20 - 02/25/14 at 21:53:32
 
Quote:
DBC said,
All I can say is that my Super Zen with 6-16 Ohm output transformers elevated the level of Transparency & Clarity in my system. As a result I have never questioned the choice to go with the 6-16 transformers.


Thanks DBC, it's good to know.  I think your right about the additional speaker choices using the B Transformer.  I wonder just how much difference there can be between the two.
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busterfree
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Re: Mini Torii sound compared to Rachael
Reply #21 - 02/26/14 at 02:18:37
 
Quote:
Posted by: beowulf      Posted on: Yesterday at 21:12:16
Which would play better with an 8 ohm speaker?

a. The Rachel

or

b. Super Zen with the 2-6 ohm transformer (I believe its also referred to as Output Transformer A)?

I always heard that the Super Zen is voiced in particular and sounds better with the "A" transformer. But if one's speakers mostly lie within 8 ohms range how would transformer "A" perform?  Would you still try the "A" transformer?

Thanks guys!



Great question. And, this leads me to two other questions about the speaker.

Is it a "true" 8 ohm speaker or 8 ohm for marketing purposes only?
Does the speaker have a complicated crossover robbing the amp of its power?

For a speaker like Omega, all of this is less of an issue since it is a single driver with no crossover.

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« Last Edit: 02/26/14 at 02:19:39 by busterfree »  
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kevtn8
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Re: Mini Torii sound compared to Rachael
Reply #22 - 03/03/14 at 02:36:08
 
Nightsky, I think you made a great call with the SuperZen. Please let me explain my story. I was introduced to Decware less than a year ago by my friend who owns the Torii Mk3. I was so impressed by the amp ( I had heard his system in the past with a diff amp and it sounded too sterile and clinical) that I started looking into starting a tube system built around Decware amps. After doing some research and talking to Steve, I ordered the SuperZen Select. I'm pairing this with his DM945s and although still new, the sound is just phenomenal. The detail, transparency, dynamics, and musicality exceeded my friend's system. The only thing his Torii Mk3 does better is stronger low bass and midbass. However, imo the SuperZen has better high and low end extensions and also better transparency and speed. The SuperZen really needs the right speakers to truly perform and as a result I'm having the DM945s modified/upgraded to improve the midrange and low bass. I just bought the companion horn cabinets for the 945s to augment the sub bass. Steve will also install a custom phase guide ( based on his DFR8 driver) on the Silver Flutes to augment the midrange. We'll see how all this will play out but I truly believe with the right efficient speakers , the Super Zen is the best overall Decware amplifier for the money. I'll keep everyone updated once its here.  :)
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