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PS Audio about to ... (Read 119975 times)
kana813
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Re: PS Audio about to ...
Reply #350 - 07/26/14 at 21:26:34
 
Unfortunately, PSA is no longer making I2S/HDMI cables, they're closing out 3 meter AC10s for $99.
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Dave1210
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Re: PS Audio about to ...
Reply #351 - 07/26/14 at 23:50:53
 
I am using the PSA AC-12.  It's a very transparent yet musical cable.  It's too bad these cables are being discontinued but I doubt too many folks are using the I2S connection these days.
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Lon
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Re: PS Audio about to ...
Reply #352 - 07/27/14 at 06:05:42
 
kana813 wrote on 07/26/14 at 21:26:34:
Unfortunately, PSA is no longer making I2S/HDMI cables, they're closing out 3 meter AC10s for $99.

Yes, I think it's been a few years since they discontinued these. The all silver one is awesome; the silver plated copper one is probably very good as well, haven't used these.
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Lon
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Re: PS Audio about to ...
Reply #353 - 07/27/14 at 06:18:42
 
Dave1210 wrote on 07/26/14 at 23:50:53:
I am using the PSA AC-12. It's a very transparent yet musical cable. It's too bad these cables are being discontinued but I doubt too many folks are using the I2S connection these days.


Yes, the HDMI AC12 is an awesome cable, isn't it? MIne really is the best I've used in between PWT and PWD.

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Lon
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Re: PS Audio about to ...
Reply #354 - 07/27/14 at 18:05:58
 
Eri, it's a different AC10, it's the HDMI AC10, not the Perfectwave AC-10.
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Lonely Raven
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Re: PS Audio about to ...
Reply #355 - 07/27/14 at 18:12:06
 

Yeah, I realized that when I went to their page...you must have caught that before I deleted my post...I'm really bummed, I would have been quite happy with a 10' AC-10 (power cord).

I might just have to go DIY when I finish building my new rack and moving my gear to the side of my room. No way for me to move the outlet without stumbling into another great deal on a big spool of raw Zen Styx type 8awg wire.
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Lon
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Re: PS Audio about to ...
Reply #356 - 07/28/14 at 13:57:56
 
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Re: PS Audio about to ...
Reply #357 - 07/28/14 at 16:39:15
 
Well, I ran the Chord pretty much all weekend on my cottage system.  I didn't get to listen much as I was entertaining.

But when I got home, I plugged it in and all I can say is the overused "wow."  The soundstage really had opened up height wise and the sound was so easy and smooth yet still very detailed and musical.

This itty bitty little DAC will not be everyone's cup of tea.  No switches (not even on/off), limited inputs, wall wart PS, etc.  

While last week I was not tapping my toe, this week I certainly am.  I did not feel the need for a new power supply last night.  I didn't feel the need for anything really.  I forgot I am supposed to be evaluating this thing for purchase and just listened and enjoyed the music.

I did find that I preferred Audirvana plus upsampling everything to 24/192 better than straight Redbook, but still this is a good Redbook DAC.

Very good synergy with Decware.  So natural and smooth.  I think it pumps out 3v (read that somewhere) so it adds some punch.

Raven, I found something on the upgrade price.  It's listed in pounds (not euros) but I think at todays rates its about $340.  It's for both a hardware and firmware update, so that makes it a little more palatable.  The upgrade takes it to DSD 128 and 24/384 via USB.  

We need to get this DAC in the same system as the DS for a comparo.  Unfortunately, I am in Michigan again next weekend.
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Lonely Raven
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Re: PS Audio about to ...
Reply #358 - 07/28/14 at 17:07:52
 

Dude, you can fit the Chord DAC in your pocket...just come over Wednesday night or something!

I've got some PC Repairs I'm doing in the evenings this week, but beyond that I'm pretty available in the evenings.
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Palomino
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Re: PS Audio about to ...
Reply #359 - 07/28/14 at 17:30:15
 
If I can slip out, I will.

Got to do shopping for the weekend.  12 college kids for three days...
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beowulf
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Re: PS Audio about to ...
Reply #360 - 07/28/14 at 23:18:19
 
This is pretty cool! I have been wondering about the Chord myself and it has gotten some great reviews. If it can get within the ballpark of what the DS can do, I would be very satisfied.

And yes, I agree ... it's got a mug only a mother could love. Grin A lot of people where complaining about its looks at the Hoffman forums and pretty much everyone agreed that for the cash it could have been in a nicer case, with more room to hook up cables, etc. But if you notice the rest of their lineup is all very quirky looking stuff to begin with so I doubt you can expect anything different from them any time soon.

I would also prefer Sample and Word Length Display over the color combination thing. But despite the quirkiness rant, I guess its the sound that matters and at least its small enough to put in the back of your computer or amp so it draw too much attention of itself.  So as long as it sounds good ...
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« Last Edit: 07/29/14 at 06:05:11 by beowulf »  
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Palomino
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Re: PS Audio about to ...
Reply #361 - 07/29/14 at 14:14:18
 
From what I have read, the Chord Hugo at $2400 beats the QuteHD handily and is being called "revolutionary."

Its actually a portable device, but if you are willing to put up with the small connectors, its supposed to be fantastic.  The same dealer I got the QuteHD from is supposed to get one in, so I may give it a listen once he does.

I'm waiting on a review by Computer Audiophile to see what they think of the DS because the same reviewer already reviewed the Hugo.
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Lonely Raven
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Re: PS Audio about to ...
Reply #362 - 07/29/14 at 15:38:25
 
Quote:
I'm waiting on a review by Computer Audiophile to see what they think of the DS because the same reviewer already reviewed the Hugo.


I PM'd him and didn't hear back. I basically asked if he's going to compare the DS to the Chord products.
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Palomino
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Re: PS Audio about to ...
Reply #363 - 07/29/14 at 15:42:22
 
I found a post on Computer Audiophile where he sort of implied that the DS was better than Hugo.  Or at least when somebody said it was significantly better (can't recall the exact descriptor used), he said he wouldn't say that.

He admits that he is slow to complete reviews.
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Lonely Raven
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Re: PS Audio about to ...
Reply #364 - 07/29/14 at 15:46:09
 
This DAC keeps coming up - apparently hand made with (I believe) off the shelf DAC chips. He's got different levels, and I think people are saying the tube output DAC that costs $7k is better than the DS.

http://www.lampizator.eu/newdac/lampizator/DSD_DAC.html


I'd really like to hear that - as the DS surprises me every time I fire it up. This and the ZMA are such an excellent match. I feel very fortunate to have jumped back into audio right now.

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« Last Edit: 07/29/14 at 15:48:53 by Lonely Raven »  
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Lonely Raven
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Re: PS Audio about to ...
Reply #365 - 07/29/14 at 15:47:57
 
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« Last Edit: 07/29/14 at 15:49:06 by Lonely Raven »  
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beowulf
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Re: PS Audio about to ...
Reply #366 - 07/29/14 at 20:36:11
 
@ Palomino ~ The Hugo is the best DAC they have now, but its case is so small that it effects other areas. Think of what they could do in a half or full chassis width. I believe I read somewhere that Hugo's tech will trickle up to other DACs in their lineup that have better chassis where they could improve on things such as the analog section, etc. I'm pretty sure that will be the next one will be more well rounded.

@ LR ~ the Lampizator has been around for a while, but his DSD implementation is fairly new. He has a couple DACs, but you can get a DSD only DAC from him or a combo of PCM and DSD.

I was reading that his DSD implementation very little silicon boards (and the only silicon that is used is for things such as the display, etc. or if it is combined with another PCM DAC). I'm pretty sure its balanced as well.

Point to Point:


Look at those caps!:
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« Last Edit: 07/30/14 at 06:15:50 by beowulf »  
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kana813
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Re: PS Audio about to ...
Reply #367 - 07/29/14 at 22:22:03
 
I expected to have a DS here this week.

For you DS users, how many hours does it take to burn in?
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Lon
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Re: PS Audio about to ...
Reply #368 - 07/29/14 at 22:26:54
 
On the PS Audio forum it seems that it's similar to the PWD, 300 to 500 hours or so.

The PWD I sent back should have reached PS Audio yesterday for upgrade so I'm just a week or two away. I'll be interested to read your impressions!
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Lonely Raven
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Re: PS Audio about to ...
Reply #369 - 07/30/14 at 04:13:57
 

I tried to pin Ted down on burn-in, he simply said he used really low temp parts, so he expects it will take a while for them to reach a "steady state", but wouldn't hazard a guess as to how long, or how to burn it in.

I lost count of where I'm at, probably 250+, everything sounds just a little smoother I think, maybe a little more spacious.
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kana813
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Re: PS Audio about to ...
Reply #370 - 07/30/14 at 07:05:45
 
Lon & LR,

Mahalo for your feedback.

The DS that's coming to me has about 100 hours on it, so I guess I'll have to run it for a week, before comparing it to the Pandora Signature.
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Lonely Raven
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Re: PS Audio about to ...
Reply #371 - 07/30/14 at 13:01:34
 

Also, Ted said that when the DS is in standby, it's actually still on, and basically sets itself to fully cranked (I forget how he worded it). Basically it's pegged with full signal, but the outputs are muted. He admitted he doesn't know if playing music, or letting it do it's thing in Standby mode would burn it in better/faster.

So I'm currently playing it regularly, but also letting it sit in Stand-by overnight. I'm pretty sure the DS has "leveled up" a bit after it's 250 hours of use/standby, but I'm not sure it's fully settled.

Only the first few hours were a little rough - it warms up and starts making music pretty quickly.
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Palomino
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Re: PS Audio about to ...
Reply #372 - 07/30/14 at 13:53:31
 
Raven, I had the Chord DAC in the car as I was out running errands last night but ran out of steam.

Now I think I will wait till I have the linear power supply before we compare to make it a little fairer fight with the DS.  

I did get some info from the Chord people.  The DAC will fry if you give it more than 13V.  My other DAC can go up to 14V without a problem.  The Chord will run below 11V but performance will suffer.  So with a regular 12V SLA, you'd have to be careful.  The older one I have now is still 13.2V at full charge.

I also think I figured out the Audirvana plus glitch.  It seems to do it when I run Audirvana plus with "maximum upsample."  I ran that way because I wanted to hear what everything upsampled to 24/192 sounded like.  I have played around a little and can run without upsampling or just 2X without the glitch.

Last night I played mostly DSD and thought it sounded a little thin compared to PCM.  I also think I read that in one of the reviews.  We will see how it sounds when I get the power supply.
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Lon
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Re: PS Audio about to ...
Reply #373 - 07/30/14 at 14:02:51
 
Eric, a far as what Ted said: It's the same with the PWD, it's "fully on" in standby, just has the display off and the output defeated when on "standby." BUT I found that an input really didn't get broken in unless there was signal traveling in and through and out of the input, and each input needed some break in.

So what I do is I run an input all the time, all day, all night, with my Torii on and turned down low. I've NEVER had a problem with leaving my Decware amps on for even as much as a week at a time. (Plus they continue to sound incrementally more phenomenal imo the longer they are on). And it's a good way to get break in going on an input. I found with the PWD and then when I upgraded to PWD Mk II that about 400 to 500 hours on each input brought the unit fully to where it only improved very gradually and subtly over successive months and months.
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« Last Edit: 07/30/14 at 14:21:01 by Lon »  

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stone_of_tone
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Re: PS Audio about to ...
Reply #374 - 07/30/14 at 18:42:01
 
http://www.vanityears.com/julymeet/Meet.html

This guy is a tad harsh. However, I had to agree with the loss of microdynamics. Omissions for sure all down the line for Redbook. I'm glad I took advantage of the return policy on both of my Edsel's.
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Palomino
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Re: PS Audio about to ...
Reply #375 - 07/30/14 at 19:23:10
 
Hmmm.  On headphones, right?
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Lon
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Re: PS Audio about to ...
Reply #376 - 07/30/14 at 19:28:08
 
Listening to stuff outside your system is so different. This DS could have been removed from the box an hour before, have the old firmware, etc. The PWD and its MK II version in my experience took at least 500 hours to come into its own and really sound right. It would be great if only fully broken in units were in shows, but that's unlikely.

Anyway, I guess you didn't like it, but I still have high hopes. You seemed to need more treble from the PWD Mk II and I ahve to turn my treble control down about halway or more on any source I've had. I hear lots of microdetail, though I admit it took months to really be this excellent a DAC. So we want and hear things a bit differently. Looking forward to having my upgraded unit back.

Edit to add: Just discovered that my PWD is now a DS and will be sent back to me tomorrow. Cool.
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« Last Edit: 07/30/14 at 19:39:52 by Lon »  

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Lonely Raven
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Re: PS Audio about to ...
Reply #377 - 07/30/14 at 19:51:35
 
Stone, did you ever try the new firmware? That was a game changer. The stock Firmware I thought was good, but not $6000 good.

Lon, congrats! I'm looking forward to your thoughts.

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« Last Edit: 07/30/14 at 19:51:57 by Lonely Raven »  
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Lon
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Re: PS Audio about to ...
Reply #378 - 07/30/14 at 20:32:22
 
Lonely Raven wrote on 07/30/14 at 19:51:35:
Lon, congrats! I'm looking forward to your thoughts.


Thanks. I'm looking forward to them too. Smiley
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kana813
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Re: PS Audio about to ...
Reply #379 - 07/30/14 at 21:05:07
 
marvey's negative comments are strange based on all the other published DS reviews. He also posted:

"I preferred the Hugo over the PSA DSD, but mainly because of its more agreeable tonal balance. The DSD was too tonally skewed to Paul's preferences which seem be to somewhere along the lines of the PWD1. But for technicalities, the Hugo was not nearly as good. Mediocre focus and precision. Coarser and less liquid. Just very mediocre."

Art Dudley's DS review will be in the September issue of Stereophile.
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Re: PS Audio about to ...
Reply #380 - 07/30/14 at 21:17:54
 
@ Stone ... A tad harsh? Grin

Quote:
vanityears said,
Dont be fooled by spastic bearded DAC engineers in YouTube videos.
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Re: PS Audio about to ...
Reply #381 - 07/30/14 at 21:30:47
 

I just posted that quote in the PS Audio forums. It made me laugh.
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Re: PS Audio about to ...
Reply #382 - 08/02/14 at 13:27:06
 
Lon...is that DS in your possession yet?
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Re: PS Audio about to ...
Reply #383 - 08/02/14 at 13:30:01
 
No. It may be out for delivery today, but I will likely not be home to receive it, but out in the woods at my girlfriend's house instead. So maybe on Monday.

I'm going to try to give it a hundred or more hours of use before making comments.
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Re: PS Audio about to ...
Reply #384 - 08/02/14 at 14:07:03
 

Lon, IMHO, after a few hours it started to sound like a DS, but for me it took 250+ for it to "level up". From what you and others have said, I'm figuring I still have another 250+ to go.

Also, you mentioned specific inputs/outputs. I'm doing a few hours a night on Coax, and several on USB - both out to XLR. Now that I think about it, I haven't even tried it via RCA - I should try it that way and see how the synergy is with the ZMA via RCA.
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Re: PS Audio about to ...
Reply #385 - 08/02/14 at 14:47:09
 
Never hurts to try. Cabling itself is such an interesting variable, add in a different transfer method. . . .
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Re: PS Audio about to ...
Reply #386 - 08/02/14 at 15:05:06
 
LR...agree, never hurts to try.  That said, with the RCA outputs on the DS, there isn't enough voltage to bring the ZMA to full volume.  

Lon...can't wait for your first impressions...and the eventual direct comparison vs. a seasoned PWD.
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Re: PS Audio about to ...
Reply #387 - 08/02/14 at 15:07:52
 
I probably won't do the giant pain in the ass it will take to do a direct comparison to a PWD Mk II. Tht said, my audio memory is pretty damned good, despite some perosn's theories such a thing is not possible. I'll know pretty much from just hearing it how it compares.
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Re: PS Audio about to ...
Reply #388 - 08/02/14 at 15:18:38
 
Bummer...I was hoping it would be straightforward for you to do the direct comparison.  I agree that audio memory isn't quite as short lived as most folks say, but I find that typically applies to things that make bigger changes in the system vs. something minor.  Hopefully the DS falls into the former camp, and from all the reviews, it should.  I have been debating whether I want to do the upgrade kit or a trade in, and I am leaning towards trade-in (although it would cost more) so I can do the direct comparison vs. my PWD.
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Re: PS Audio about to ...
Reply #389 - 08/02/14 at 15:24:06
 
Due to rack space it would be very hard for me to do direct comparison and I'm not likely to do so. If I love the DS more than the PWD Mk II I'll know right away, and be sure after break-in. And then I'll be set. I'll be as specific as I can about differences when I do comment if that helps others. I do remember audio details and am confident I will know the differences. I'm not a professional reviewer, nor do I play one on TV, my listening time is limited these days with my 60 plus hour a week non-paying care-giving job and my girlfriend who likes me to be out at her place in the woods, and I just don't see myself setting up direct comparisons, would really be a not-so fun to accomplish chore with little personal benefit. I'm stuck with my upgrade, though I don't think it will be a problem for me.
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« Last Edit: 08/02/14 at 17:36:58 by Lon »  

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Re: PS Audio about to ...
Reply #390 - 08/05/14 at 13:39:14
 
I hope that LR will share a bit of info about last night.

I missed delivery of my DS Saturday by fifteen minutes, I waited as long as I possibly could without incurring the ire of my Irish GF, and they of course came right after I had to leave. Should be delivered today, and I may have some time to set it up in place of the PWD Mk II.
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Re: PS Audio about to ...
Reply #391 - 08/05/14 at 15:07:10
 

Listening session is tonight actually . Monday's is "get stuff done" day, so I try not to bother them at the office. DeuceKazoo said he's never heard the OTL. I'm thinking OTL + DirectStream will be mind-melting!

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Re: PS Audio about to ...
Reply #392 - 08/05/14 at 15:15:34
 
Cool. Thanks. i'm interested to hear what he thinks of the DS. I personally think the PWD Mk III was about three times better sounding than the ZDAC-1 was, so I've high hopes for the DS. But then I've come to the conclusion that Steve likes a more high frequency oriented sound than I do.
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Re: PS Audio about to ...
Reply #393 - 08/05/14 at 15:48:33
 

Well Steve doesn't even use the ZDAC-1 anymore. DAC technology is moving so quickly, I can't imagine Decware having a DAC of their own anymore unless Steve has something Rebranded for him every couple of years, or hires a DAC Engineer like Ted.

I'm just speculating of course, it's not really something I've asked Steve about. He seems pretty happy with his TEAC, and has been really busy with R2R.

Speaking of which, I still don't believe the DS can do what my Otari could, and I'm betting Steve will say the same. But what it does do really takes digital to the next level. That, plus the ease of use factor of digital storage - and it's a no-brainer. Tape is still a special occasion treat. Smiley

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Re: PS Audio about to ...
Reply #394 - 08/05/14 at 15:54:04
 
I know he's not using the ZDAC-1 but that was what he was touting as a giant killer and a great all around DAC. And I hated the CD-1 I had, I had him add all the options and it just was the least musical of my players. I just think we have different ideas of what "neutral" should be. And/or just hear a different way the signature sound of a DAC.

And yeah I know tape decks are amazing, I've experienced quite a few early on in my audio days, but man, I just can't live with the limited yet ridiculously priced software, sorry. It's too "audiophile" to listen to a limited amount of expensive stuff just cause it sounds so good, not my thing.
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« Last Edit: 08/05/14 at 16:05:26 by Lon »  

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Re: PS Audio about to ...
Reply #395 - 08/05/14 at 16:09:36
 
Quote:
I just think we have different ideas of what "neutral" should be


I would have to agree with you there, I think we all have our own ideas of neutral (I mean besides measuring ad nauseam ). But Steve does pay attention to what people like. When I was speaker shopping at his place (when I wound up picking the MG-944) he played the HDT for me - he seemed excited to have me hear it, then one look at my face and he shut it off. Yeah, it had detail, but cripes it was high-end+++


Quote:
And yeah I know tape decks are amazing, I've experienced quite a few early on in my audio days, but man, I just can't live with the limited yet ridiculously priced software, sorry. It's too "audiophile" to listen to a limited amount of expensive stuff just cause it sounds so good, not my thing.


Agreed again, I've put a pause on tapes. I actually had my Otari sold before I realized the HR-1 weren't for me. So I still have an inexpensive deck and a huge pile of tapes, but I'm taking a break for a bit and focusing on my digital now that I have the DS. I'll come back to tape soon though, I just don't like having to hunt down media.
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Re: PS Audio about to ...
Reply #396 - 08/06/14 at 02:00:11
 
LRI hope you guys are having a great listening session this evening!
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Re: PS Audio about to ...
Reply #397 - 08/06/14 at 12:46:28
 
Lon...any changes to report on DS break-in?

LR...any notes/impressions from the listening session last evening?
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Re: PS Audio about to ...
Reply #398 - 08/06/14 at 13:12:04
 
No changes except that the treble tizziness and slight phasiness definitely burned off and are gone. Sound is pretty darned good, not that dissimilar to the PWD Mk II but the treble does seem a bit more natural (not that I would have thought it wasn't wiith the Mk II, but there's a bit more "body" without "edge") and the bass is a bit quicker, less "congested" (some would say "with less slam") and the soundstage is a bit deeper. Almost all good things. I think it will break in and be amazing.

I think if I hadn't lived with the PWT and Mk II for so long I would have been bowled over in delight. But I think the PWT and Mk II combo gets you about 85 percent of the way here, and that's heads and shoulders above almost anything else I've had in my home.
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« Last Edit: 08/06/14 at 13:16:44 by Lon »  

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Re: PS Audio about to ...
Reply #399 - 08/06/14 at 16:23:31
 
Sounds very promising so far Lon, and I agree, all of the things you mention sound like benefits.  Maybe after break-in, the % will decrease for the PWD (vs. 85% of the way there) and the value equation will change.

Are you getting a lot more detail from Redbook vs the PWD?  I feel like that comes up quite frequently on the PS Audio forums.  
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