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Torii Mk III, vs Mk IV and new Mystery amp (Read 3491 times)
Lonely Raven
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Re: Torii Mk III, vs Mk IV and new Mystery amp
Reply #15 - 01/11/14 at 05:10:20
 
Honestly, I'm not sure that's even yours, because I don't see a stepped attenuator on it...didn't you order stepped?

Maybe yours is further along and this was my #2?

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« Last Edit: 01/11/14 at 05:11:01 by Lonely Raven »  
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stone_of_tone
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Re: Torii Mk III, vs Mk IV and new Mystery amp
Reply #16 - 01/13/14 at 07:13:18
 
I hope you're right. My ZMA has to be ahead of this one.   -S
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maddog07
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Re: Torii Mk III, vs Mk IV and new Mystery amp
Reply #17 - 01/14/14 at 18:59:08
 
Valentin...

I could not tell you what to do, I can only share my experience and opinion, which is all any of can do.  I have listened to my mk.III and a IV - side-by-side, matched volume.  The IV is definitely "different" sounding.  "Better" is a judgment only you can make for yourself, with hearing being an individual perception - which it is.  And dependent on your room, speakers and other components no one can predict which you may prefer.  I for one prefer the sound of the III with Jupiter caps installed driving speakers that are similar in design to the Decware HRT’s.  I also find the "adjustment range" of its controls indispensable.  The treble control on the IV barely made a detectable difference on any of the Decware speakers I listened to it driving at the Zenfest.

I'm sure you will get lots of opinions about how the IV is "better" than the III.  I know there are many of us who disagree and prefer the III.  Nobody can make this assessment for you.  I have found that some tube rolling can take the III into the sonic territory that the IV occupies, if that is the sound you prefer.....  YMMV.

If you like your III's - just be happy.  If your curiosity overcomes you, order a IV and take advantage of the 30 day trial... I would not recommend jumping on the IV bandwagon blindly, without hearing it in your own system and your own room first.  But this goes for “any” component.. not just Decware amps.

I think there are a couple of forum members who actually own mk. III’s and are about to get or just got mk. IV’s – perhaps they can give their assessment of the difference in the sound between the two.

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Decware Torii MK3, Wyred4Sound DAC2, Theta Digital Miles, Emotiva UMC-1, Emotiva XPA-5, Aesthetix Calypso, Marsh P200b, Martin Logan Vista, Audio Nirvana 12" Alnico's, PS Audio PW P5, Goertz, Kimber, Nordost and DIY wires, PSA pwr cords, I'm outta room..
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stone_of_tone
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Re: Torii Mk III, vs Mk IV and new Mystery amp
Reply #18 - 01/14/14 at 22:25:47
 
http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1377109129
Go to page: 14
Reference reply #'s (in New Torii MKIV Thread): #202 Tgarden & #208 Rivieraranch.
For contrast: #200 maddog is keeping his III(s) like Lon.
-S

I mentioned this in reply #6 in this Thread (me shaking ma' head maddog).

...this is a good one too: with grilski & Tgarden
http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1381850776/0
I bumped it too.  -Stone
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« Last Edit: 01/14/14 at 23:03:26 by stone_of_tone »  

Sony as Transport
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Polk Audio LS-90
Tri-config/TipToes & Vibropods underneath Speakers
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Lon
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Re: Torii Mk III, vs Mk IV and new Mystery amp
Reply #19 - 01/15/14 at 00:36:19
 
Yes, even if I bought the Mystery Amp in the future, I would keep my first Torii Mk III, it's an amazing amp, so well-seasoned and deep in sound. And it has flexibliity that I feel I must have.

Upgrading to the Mk IV makes no sense to me, there is less flexibility and a similar sound. The ZMA would be the obvious upgrade for me. I'll be reading all the impressions of the ZMA to be sure, and I know how I am, I'll be wondering whether the amp WOULD bring improvement to my system. But I wouldn't buy one unless I could have the treble cut circuit installed, I've queried Steve about that, whether that circuit could be added to the ZMA. And I would have the problem of only one input. The real solution for me is a ZMA and an Ultra. That's a ten grand solution! And I'm not sure if the Ultra can have the Jupiter caps added as one of my CSP2+ have (and are the better for it). So that would be another additional cost IF they can be.

As I am giving away all my work to my parents for free and have a meager retirement income coming in, I'd have to fund such purchases selling stereo, guitars, basses and guitar amps to generate a lot of the cost. I could do that, and might, and would if I felt that there was a clear cut improvement for the system. But. . .that's hard to figure out without an in-home audition to be honest. I would love to support the company with several top of the line purchases. But I may not be able to, and if I could I may not be able to justify it financially.

So, I think that the Mk IIIs I have will be my amps for a while, and I await all the impressions from "early adopters."
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« Last Edit: 01/15/14 at 00:39:47 by Lon »  

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tom collins
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Re: Torii Mk III, vs Mk IV and new Mystery amp
Reply #20 - 01/15/14 at 19:08:58
 
keeping my III too.  kt66 tubes, upgraded rectifiers will make it sound like a different amp.  gutsy and powerful, like a great ultralinear or Mk iv?.  just don't throw away your el34's for when you want to mellow back out with that SET sound.  2 amps for the price of one, hard to beat.

treble control +5.  just brought home some silver speaker wires to test drive.  had to cut that control immediately.  the effect was just right once dialed in.  i have the option of using the silver cable with its greater detailing and air without burning my ears.

bass control - never really have figured that one out.
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maddog07
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Re: Torii Mk III, vs Mk IV and new Mystery amp
Reply #21 - 01/15/14 at 20:24:30
 

10-roger good buddy...

my Torii III is only the second tube amp I have ever actually owned... a Decware SE34i was the first tube amp I bought.  I just started tube rolling with the Torii back around the 1st of Nov.  I kinda went knuts on eBay...a whole crate of tubes to futz around with now - OMG... "the last amp you will ever want".... I'm believing it.  I can make this thing sound any freaking way I choose!  I don't have any of the stock tubes in it now, and it just keeps getting better.  The only reason I could ever imagine parting with it, is if I needed more power - like the ZMA... but the Torii's 25 watts is more than enough for the speakers I have it paired with now - party levels with power to spare.  Performers right there in front of me... satisfaction attained... stick me with a fork - I'm done....!!!
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Decware Torii MK3, Wyred4Sound DAC2, Theta Digital Miles, Emotiva UMC-1, Emotiva XPA-5, Aesthetix Calypso, Marsh P200b, Martin Logan Vista, Audio Nirvana 12" Alnico's, PS Audio PW P5, Goertz, Kimber, Nordost and DIY wires, PSA pwr cords, I'm outta room..
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Lonely Raven
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Re: Torii Mk III, vs Mk IV and new Mystery amp
Reply #22 - 01/15/14 at 20:30:44
 

Just throwing this out there, I've noticed a pattern with the long term Decware fans.

I see a lot of die hard love for the SE84C+ and Torii MK III.

I think it's like cars; they make good cars, but certain models they just really got it right.

Is there one of the Decware Preamps that fall into this "from my cold dead hands" type love?



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Lon
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Re: Torii Mk III, vs Mk IV and new Mystery amp
Reply #23 - 01/15/14 at 21:09:23
 
I think in the case of the Torii Mk III you may well be right Eric, the combination of its flexibility and it's useable power make it fit so many systems. What I like most about it is that one can set it so that all your music sounds so. . .musical is probably the best word. And if you want to explore the very edges of high fidelity on the great recordings you can drive yourself mad rolling tubes or experimenting with cabling or isoltation components, etc. I have fits and spells of both these types of stereo listening and the Mk III is so satisfying to both these selves.

You know, we hardly ever hear anything about the earlier preamps from Decware; it would be interesting to know how many ZPres etc. were sold. I jumped in with the CSP2 and even so in one of the old black chassis as I then was running SE34 monoblocks Steve no longer makes and I wanted the preamp to match. I still have that preamp in use in my father's system and I LOVE it, it's so direct and honeset and will soar in the sky or wallow in the mud. It is not quite as flexible as the CSP2+ that I have, but it's SO seasoned and always improves what I connect it to. I love my CSP2+s as well, I have three of them so I guess I must. The newest, with the Jupiter caps installed, is just so transparent and dynamic, it's the perfect partner for my Mk III. I have it connected to my PS Audio DAC Mk II and my ZP3. The other CSP2+ in the main system is connected to the other hi-res sources, my SACD player and my Blu-reay player. One day I'll probably have Jupiter caps installed in it as well.

So for me. . . I'd have to say that the newest CS2+ with the Jupiters is the one I love the most, with a huge sentimental feeling swirling around my trusty old CSP2. I think from what I see in the forum the CSP2+ preamp is the one most owned and talked about on the forum.

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« Last Edit: 01/16/14 at 04:39:49 by Lon »  

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Lord Soth
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Re: Torii Mk III, vs Mk IV and new Mystery amp
Reply #24 - 01/16/14 at 04:28:12
 
In response to LR's question, my experience with the CSP2+ and CSP3 is that system synergy is really essential.

The CSP3 introduced a sonic veil to my Torii MK4 which I found disagreeable.
On the other hand, the CSP3 increased the sonics tremendously without any detectable sonic veil when paired with my Yarland tube amp.

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tom collins
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Re: Torii Mk III, vs Mk IV and new Mystery amp
Reply #25 - 01/16/14 at 23:47:28
 
lon:  does the preamp give an improvement over just running your sources straight to the amp?  I am preampless at the moment.
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Lon
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Re: Torii Mk III, vs Mk IV and new Mystery amp
Reply #26 - 01/17/14 at 00:59:37
 
I think it would depend on the source and amp and system etc. I can speak for myself: I have been quite happy without a preamp, and there are several preamps that I have tried that have not made an improvement and or got in the way, but the CSP2 and CSP2+s that I have really do help the sound for me, adding a musicality and dynamics. The PWD Mk II that I use mostly is fine without a preamp, but the CSP2+ that I use adds a bit more ease and assuages a bit of detail-laden clinicalness. Now I'm NOT a detail hound and I like a nice musicality for a variety of source material. A detail nut may think just the opposite that I do.
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marky
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Re: Torii Mk III, vs Mk IV and new Mystery amp
Reply #27 - 01/17/14 at 10:37:18
 
I never gave a second thought when ordering Rachaels.
No volume controls just the CSP2+ to control them.
If I were the owner of another Decware amp eg torii ( or any int amp)
and had the CSP as well then I wouldn`t be able to not
think should I bypass the volume pot/s on the main amp.
I probably wouldn`t but you can see the case for.
Regardless, the CSP is synergistic with the range.

( no doubt bypassing pots isn`t as easy as I make out, so..... )
Second thought...having the volume pots wide open would amount to the same thing. What you call `riding the gain` I think.
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« Last Edit: 01/18/14 at 12:17:42 by marky »  

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will
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Re: Torii Mk III, vs Mk IV and new Mystery amp
Reply #28 - 01/30/14 at 02:13:08
 
Hey Marky. Riding the gain to me is a way to alter the tone between being amp dominant or pre dominant and any variation in between. Keeping the volume more or less the same (by ear), generally, if you ride up the pre and down the amp, you will add weight and body. If you ride up the amp, while riding down on the pre, you will lean things down a bit.

I really like this tool since so many recording are a little (or a lot) lean, and many others are too dense.
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« Last Edit: 01/30/14 at 02:14:20 by will »  

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Digger
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Re: Torii Mk III, vs Mk IV and new Mystery amp
Reply #29 - 01/30/14 at 02:41:24
 
Will,
     Good point on over driving or under driving valve amps. Very similar with guitar tube amps. I wish I had that flexibility with my amp set up but unfortunately I don't. My amp has no volume control just preamp volume control. Thank goodness the CSP3 has input and output pots they do allow me to tweak the sound a bit through the preamp and also have the master volume on it to work with for tweaking the two input and outputs. Either drive the front hard or you can jam the output side and ride the volume in between makes for some fun. Allows for a lot of tonal flexibility.



Cool
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« Last Edit: 01/30/14 at 02:42:49 by Digger »  
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