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Frustrating SET Bashers (Read 4266 times)
Lon
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Re: Frustrating SET Bashers
Reply #15 - 12/30/13 at 19:49:01
 
ski, I have done comparisons with previous wires, pretty confident of my findings. But it doesn't matter if you don't approve. I'm enjoying the benefits.

I'm done with the main system. Really enjoying how wonderful it sounds with the cabling I have.

Oh, and just to clarify: I'm an SET supporter, but I listen to push-pull.
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« Last Edit: 12/30/13 at 19:52:48 by Lon »  

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ski bum
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Re: Frustrating SET Bashers
Reply #16 - 12/30/13 at 21:41:15
 
Believer/non-believer is a false equivalence when actual evidence is available supporting one side of the debate but not the other.

I don't believe in audiophile mythology, and if you disapprove, that's ok.  I'm enjoying the benefits.  
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Lon
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"Love without
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Re: Frustrating SET Bashers
Reply #17 - 12/30/13 at 22:04:36
 
I don't believe in audiophile mythology either. I believe in what my ears tell me.

I neither approve or disapprove about objectivist/subjectivist. I just don't approve of someone telling me my ears are lying to me. Which some do.
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« Last Edit: 12/30/13 at 22:05:47 by Lon »  

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Lonely Raven
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Re: Frustrating SET Bashers
Reply #18 - 12/30/13 at 22:44:59
 

Yeah, some things.... I can't fully explain the things I hear. Maybe not everything we are doing has a defined way to quantify and measure at this time? How do you measure sound that's so "liquid" and "has weight", it's almost a fluid rushing from the speakers in a visceral sense? I've had that experience with a Decware amp and speakers, and I can barely describe it, let alone guess how to measure for it!

While I *know* I used to have above average hearing, I'm pretty sure that's going downhill pretty quickly at 42. But with the "training" I've put myself through (which is a fancy way of saying "listening and paying attention"), I've retained a lot of listening skills through my declining hearing. I can, and do still hear differences in speaker cables and interconnects and of course tubes. I've yet to hear any differences in power cords; *assuming* we aren't talking about one that's intentionally doing something to the current, or is substandard. IMHO - a cables goal is to do the least amount of damage to the signal going from point A to point B. Hell, I think that's the point of the slide-rule and scope audio guys - all equipment should send the signal unmolested from point A to point B - but I really don't think that's how bringing the music *alive* works...and that's what they aren't getting.

On the plus side, I got a great compliment form Steve at Decfest; he said something along the lines of "Eric hears things the way I hear things".



:)
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stone_of_tone
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Re: Frustrating SET Bashers
Reply #19 - 12/30/13 at 23:13:57
 
I am a Kimber Select fan.

I have found 2 pair of Speakers and now with the addition of my Gallo 3.1's...I have 3 pair of Speakers at modest efficiency that can actually play very well with my SE84CS & SuperZen CKC. It is nice to see the Martin Logan Thread and how they can play too. I know their was a gentleman using Von Swag's and of course the gentlemen with the Decware Mono Blocks with Wilson's with Kimber Select.

My point being....it is the matching of components and cables. Kimber Select is lost on Hi-Efficiency Speakers for me as an example. Plus, I just don't prefer Hi-Eff Speaks. Those that say their is no difference in cables...I can't relate to those people. My Kimber KS1030 & KS3035 in my Listening Room & Kimber Hero & KS3033 in my bedroom System are so liquid and lush' holographic with my Decware Amps and for my tastes...I could not be without them.  -S

PS-Kimber has been selling the Select Line to Music Lover's for 15 years now. From my observations, the majority of Kimber's customers are not people with "F-you money" (as that saying goes).  I don't have F-you money.....so my Select Cables have been a great investment.
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Sony as Transport
Illuminati D-60
Audio Alchemy DTI-Pro
Audio Magic Mystic Reference I2S
Audio Alchemy DDE 3.0
Kimber Select 1030
Zen Select #76
Kimber Select 3033
Polk Audio LS-90
Tri-config/TipToes & Vibropods underneath Speakers
360 degree Rm Treats
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ski bum
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Re: Frustrating SET Bashers
Reply #20 - 12/31/13 at 00:59:42
 
Lon, your ears are very likely deceiving you, believe it or not.  Don't take that as a personal criticism, it's simply human nature.  I'm not sure why you would be so testy at your engineer friend on the jazz forum, or me, on such a settled topic as the mutability of human perception.  It's basic cognitive science.  You seem as in denial about that branch of science as you are on basic electrical theory on the wire thing.

 
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« Last Edit: 12/31/13 at 01:11:01 by ski bum »  
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Lon
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"Love without
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Re: Frustrating SET Bashers
Reply #21 - 12/31/13 at 01:23:11
 
Ski bum, I didn't come to this lightly, and I've had others listening with me and apart from me that have come to similar conclusions. Sorry, I'm not taking your word, or anyone else's about what I hear or can't hear. And electrical science may not encompass all the knowledge taken to explain these differences. Regardless I respect your opinion but it is not lessening either my own experiential knowledge and conclusions, nor my enjoyment of the improvements.

The bottom line is that I don't WANT to hear improvements, but do, and I trust my own senses and experiences. I don't think "basic cognitive science" is as definitive or comprehensive as some others do.
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« Last Edit: 12/31/13 at 02:31:17 by Lon »  

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JD
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Re: Frustrating SET Bashers
Reply #22 - 12/31/13 at 06:01:49
 
Ski bum,

This forum is fantastic because people share their beliefs and musical interests.  Take from it or leave it alone no judgement either way.  Negativity is unnecessary. It's totally cool to believe in something else just don't challenge someone else's belief.  You hear what you hear...let it be.

JD
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Lonely Raven
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Re: Frustrating SET Bashers
Reply #23 - 12/31/13 at 06:44:04
 
Quote:
The bottom line is that I don't WANT to hear improvements, but do, and I trust my own senses and experiences. I don't think "basic cognitive science" is as definitive or comprehensive as some others do.


That about sums it up for me as well...I'm a huge skeptic; everything has to prove itself to me or *out it goes*.

I was really thinking those Herbie's Tube Dampers were just another toy, though I could see how they *could* work. The change was surprising enough that I put in a $340 order on other stuff to try out (which also has to prove itself or it goes back!).

Steve's Zen Styx are another product I was skeptical of...Steve said this wire is good out to 40' before it starts to affect the sound, and is otherwise the best bang for the buck in neutrality. Sure, that all sounds great, but how does it sound when the rubber meets the road in my place? yeah, I have that wire now, and started making power cables from it as well (though as I've said, not hearing power cables making a difference in my current system).

So now I'm going to see about the PS Audio Power Plant things....see if they can prove themselves to me...especially at that crazy cost that I wouldn't otherwise be paying (or affording honestly).


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jameskk
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Re: Frustrating SET Bashers
Reply #24 - 12/31/13 at 12:32:44
 
Coming up on 40 years that I have been in this Mayhem of listening to audio equipment and changing this amp or that speaker ,or those interconnects. NEVER happy with the results, driving miles and miles to hear this or that. getting false opinions from store owners , just so they could sell their equipment and make a buck. And again NEVER happy. Enter SET and single driver speakers. The same things that made those floor standing radios when I was a kid sound so good . Oh we are not here to talk about single driver speakers ,however they do go hand in hand. This is OLD technology , maybe the oldest technology. Shame on them for bashing technology that started it all. 2 watts and 95 DB drivers , Ill take that all day. Shame!!! Happy New Year  
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« Last Edit: 12/31/13 at 12:42:04 by jameskk »  
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Lon
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"Love without
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worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

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Re: Frustrating SET Bashers
Reply #25 - 12/31/13 at 13:02:28
 
Eric, Glad the Herbie's Audio Lab material has proven their usefulness to you!
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« Last Edit: 12/31/13 at 13:02:53 by Lon »  

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ski bum
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Re: Frustrating SET Bashers
Reply #26 - 12/31/13 at 14:14:26
 
Using Lon's logic, the world must be flat.  It sure doesn't look spherical, at least not from where I'm standing, so therefore science is wrong and the world is flat.  I'm going with what my eyes tell me, as I have super-human vision, and nobody will convince me otherwise!

SMH




     



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Lon
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"Love without
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Philip K. D*ck

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Re: Frustrating SET Bashers
Reply #27 - 12/31/13 at 14:27:50
 
NO, where I am it's hilly, not flat.

Nowhere do I claim I have superhuman anything. But if some others can't hear what I hear, and some others do, there could be a variation in hearing skills within the norm. That's a conclusion I can come to with logic.

Whatever ski. No offense, but logic isn't all to life, and I trust my senses in things audio. And I'm not alone. As long as we're both enjoying what we hear our lives are enriched.  I'd appreciate if you would stop mocking me.
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« Last Edit: 12/31/13 at 14:47:00 by Lon »  

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Digger
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Re: Frustrating SET Bashers
Reply #28 - 12/31/13 at 15:06:19
 
Ski bum,

    I'm by no means an authority on any thing and I plan on keeping it that way. Life is to short to argue and analyze things to death. I do like to hear others observations and can also learn something from them on occasions. Nothing is worth getting in a Pi%@# match over. I have personally heard differences in speaker wire and I don't mean $1,000 dollar wire more like Radio Shacks special wire. From different strand thicknesses to different gauge sizes. Mainly in the treble and bass and some resolution of the sound so I do believe there are audible differences in certain wire. I have no experience with super high end products do to not being worth it to me. The differences to me do not necessarily justify the cost but you shouldn't bash someone for having the ability to search and seek the available products that are out there and tell what they have learned. I'm grateful for those that do it keeps me from the need to purchase some of those things that I really can't afford personally but through them I do get to experience what they are experiencing and that is a great thing. Please I appreciate your position on what you believe but also appreciate others for what they believe.

    Its all about enjoying music or enjoying the music along with the equipment as a hobby or whatever doesn't matter. Its about the expansion of thought that a lot of us have on this sight try not to be to narrow is my feelings! As long as were here to enjoy things life is good. My father is in the hospital in bad shape that would be the other! That's the bad half of a good life.
    Hey all have a good day and keep on spinning them!

Have a Happy New Year!

Cheers,


Grin



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Lon
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"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 7687
Re: Frustrating SET Bashers
Reply #29 - 12/31/13 at 15:26:57
 
Digger, sorry to hear about your Dad, I'm struggling to keep mine out of the hospital. Hope his situation improves. Happy new year!
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