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Frustrating SET Bashers (Read 4179 times)
Lonely Raven
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Frustrating SET Bashers
12/25/13 at 04:41:04
 

So, I was doing some research, and I stumbled into this thread that I find so frustrating.

How exactly do you debate the educated, skilled, measurement types when they bash SET amps as "bad" from the get-go?

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/amps-pre-pros-receivers/72006-mysteries-set...

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Doorman
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Re: Frustrating SET Bashers
Reply #1 - 12/25/13 at 05:10:56
 
No debate necessary !
Science also states bumblebees can't possibly fly, either !!
Merry Christmas to all.
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armstdav
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Re: Frustrating SET Bashers
Reply #2 - 12/25/13 at 05:20:11
 
That thread is from almost 3 years ago, so I'm guessing they're no longer debating.   Smiley

But seriously, who cares? I love my SE34.2+, and don't really care if the measurements prove it's a "good" amp. I also love my Modwright LS-100, and most other 6SN7 preamps I've heard, despite the "non-linear" characteristics of the 6SN7. And don't even mention my Zu Druids, plenty think they couldn't possibly sound like anything but crap!

It's like arguing religion, much rhetoric but few minds are changed. Be confident in what you hear, and pick equipment that gives you a pleasing sound. Then enjoy the music, and don't look back or apologize or feel the need to defend it.

At least until the upgrade bug hits.    ;D

David
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« Last Edit: 12/25/13 at 05:21:36 by armstdav »  
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stone_of_tone
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Re: Frustrating SET Bashers
Reply #3 - 12/25/13 at 16:21:11
 
Pick your Illusion!  I choose Decware, for my ear to brain connection. It's in the Harmonics...my brain needs.

Just let the spec types Listen to their odd order Sand Amps. I have had some of the best so called Sand Amps in my Listening Room and could not wait to get them out/returned!

As Steve mentioned: let them voice their Amps with a Scope. ....that is akin to Tuning a Piano with Plunger.     -S
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Lonely Raven
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Re: Frustrating SET Bashers
Reply #4 - 12/25/13 at 16:39:29
 

I agree with you all, but it's threads and people like that which chase away real music lovers who otherwise might have found real audio nirvana.

Then again, the measurement guy doesn't have any room treatment, that's all I need to to see that he doesn't know what he's talking about...
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marky
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Re: Frustrating SET Bashers
Reply #5 - 12/25/13 at 20:11:45
 
Apprenticed to STC in the early `70`s I never even knew they had anything to do with valves. By then it was all trannys and the new IC`s. Studying all 3 was a chore but the valve diagrams always sparked the imagination more than the in/out of transistors.. They were treated as times gone by. So easy to just go with the flow, you thought transistors were better, but deep down, when it came to audio, tubes were the end game.... later on when you could catch your breath. All those electrons flowing in 3D (maybe 4). It`s like a homecoming. Definitely more fun as well, and with Steves amps its a joy.
lol It`s good it`s a `one stop shop`
for amps. No signature,reference, anniversary,etc upgrades.
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« Last Edit: 12/25/13 at 20:28:00 by marky »  

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Mark
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Re: Frustrating SET Bashers
Reply #6 - 12/27/13 at 16:30:44
 
Musicality is an elusive goal... Sometimes it's an amplifier's anomalies that make it musical... Very subjective territory for sure... But my ears don't lie... I am a pianist and long-time Hi Fi buff... And I know what instruments in the orchestra should sound like...

Also, SETs definitely add something to the recordings... Who can say exactly what... But it is pleasing to my ear... (m.)
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If a rabbit defined intelligence the way man does, then the most intelligent animal would be a rabbit, followed by the animal most willing to obey the commands of a rabbit. -Robert Brault, writer (b. 1938)
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maddog07
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Re: Frustrating SET Bashers
Reply #7 - 12/27/13 at 17:37:33
 
you get "results" for what you measure.  I purport, that the objectivists have not yet discovered "what" attribute(or at least all attributes) of sound reproduction are responsible for making our ears/brains think that the sound from tube amps is more real and lifelike sounding.  I think we know that tube amps even order harmonics are “natural” and sandamp odd-order harmonics are not…. But I suspect there is even more to it than that.  But who cares!?… let them waste time arguing about it, while I’m enjoying music!  I have chosen with my ears, and I chose Decware amps and high-sensitivity, crossoverless, full-rangers to get me the closest to “live” that I have yet experienced….

Grin
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AiDee
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Re: Frustrating SET Bashers
Reply #8 - 12/28/13 at 19:49:40
 
It's important not to confuse objectivists with science or scientists. These things are not remotely the same.

From my experiences with objectivists in the 'sound science' forum of head-fi, most confuse their subjective personality preferences (for an orderly, black/white world?) with the 'objective' frameworks they know a little bit about.

Just because - on this platform - they assert a superior position doesn't mean it is.
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subagent
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Re: Frustrating SET Bashers
Reply #9 - 12/28/13 at 23:13:43
 
I remember a time, many years ago, when measurements drove the sale of audio gear.  And measurements nearly drove the business into the ground.

Yes, the numbers are important and yes they have meaning.  All is trumped, however, by the reality that we seek to reproduce and hear (listen to) the sound of an event passed and gone.  Do not rely solely on what is measurable, because that is not the event.  

Enjoy the music, or enjoy the measurements.

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DPC
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Re: Frustrating SET Bashers
Reply #10 - 12/29/13 at 19:12:39
 
There is one undeniable truth in this hobby:  One can always find someone who feels that any component is flawed!  The internet has only served to allow us access to find/read more of those folks.
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Lon
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Re: Frustrating SET Bashers
Reply #11 - 12/29/13 at 19:38:51
 
Yeah, on a jazz board I'm trying hard not to argue with a few people (one an electrical engineer so he's sure he's talking the gospel truth) who are trying to convince everyone that wire of any kind makes no difference, and what's more they can hear no difference. If I hear a difference, I'm making it up.

It never occurs to these people that perhaps they can't hear the difference. They go through the roof if you suggest that. But we're supposed to calmly accept that we are making ourselves believe we hear differences.

I'm learning to just let them spout their stuff unchallenged. The hard way.
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DPC
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Re: Frustrating SET Bashers
Reply #12 - 12/29/13 at 20:27:45
 
Hate to admit it but I have been listening to music since five AM.  In my defense it is a gloomy, cold and blustery day outside.  My house is clean and all the laundry is done and put away.

Just poured a glass of Paso Robles Cabernet Sauvignon.  The little SET amp has seen many different artist's today.  If the recording was good the sound is excellent.

Is that not what we are looking for?
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ski bum
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Re: Frustrating SET Bashers
Reply #13 - 12/30/13 at 17:49:30
 
Yeah, just like the dogmatic defenders of prevailing engineering dogma, I find some of the magical thinking on the part of some SET proponents is equally frustrating.  Lon should try a real ABX comparison with his cherished magic wires, maybe after visiting an audiologist to confirm his super-human hearing. Roll Eyes  Good grief, man.  

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mark58
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Re: Frustrating SET Bashers
Reply #14 - 12/30/13 at 18:58:40
 
Now, Now children!  Let's play nice in the Decware Sandbox...hehe. There's room enough for everyone here...Believers and non-believers alike. Mark.

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