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Raven's Haven Cinema and Listening Room (Read 2691 times)
Lonely Raven
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Raven's Haven Cinema and Listening Room
12/01/13 at 18:50:47
 
I snapped a quick photo today. I've still not been able to start building my own 1D and 2D diffusers for the side and back walls (and eventually to be put in front of the big screen during critical listening) - But here is where I am now.



Home Theater side is an Onkyo TX-SR805 Surround Sound receiver going out to Elemental Designs Home Theater speakers (very few sets were made unfortunately). The source is primarily my Home Theater PC that I built myself with 12 Terabytes of space on hand, and a Comcast Business Grade cable supplying my link to the outside world. Also have a Sony PS3 for Blu-Ray and Games. Everything filtered by various Monster Home Theater power conditioners.

Two Channel side is currently an Oppo BDP-105 Universal Player, usually playing FLAC files from the server, or off portable hard drives. Source then goes directly to my "vintage" Zen SE84-A modified by Steve, then out to my MG944 (with built in crossover). Cabling is Decware Silver Reference IC and my own 10AWG version of the Zen Styx.

The room is roughly 25' X 15' and is unfortunately L shaped. I have several DIY bass traps including the old Decware design CWALLs, my own design super-trap (left wall), and several acoustic blankets behind the equipment racks. I have a spattering of DIY broadband absorbers, and some RPG absorbers that are slowly getting placed as I figure out where they are most effective. The ceiling has some RPG 2d diffusers, and I'm slowly adding RPG absorbers up above. The back and back-side walls (not shown) are a spattering of DYI 1d diffusers and "acoustic wallpaper tiles" - much of which will be replaced with 12" deep 1D diffusers of my own design, as soon as I get the funds and my garage back in order.

More to come!  ;)

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« Last Edit: 12/01/13 at 18:51:13 by Lonely Raven »  
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Auguie
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Re: Raven's Haven Cinema and Listening Room
Reply #1 - 12/02/13 at 22:44:48
 
Very cool LR...what are you using for a projector?
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Decware SE84CS M Monoblocks & HDT Speakers; First Sound Presence Deluxe MK I Pre Amp; Wyred 4 Sound DAC-1/Oppo 971H (as transport for now); VPI Scout/Dynavector 10X5 Cart; Phonomena II Phono Pre; Magnum Dynalab FT101A Etude Tuner; XLO/Wireworld/Signal Cables.
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Lonely Raven
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Re: Raven's Haven Cinema and Listening Room
Reply #2 - 12/03/13 at 00:44:51
 

It's a Mitsubishi HS5500 projector. I lucked into a win on a slot machine back in '08 when Brianne's parents took us to Vegas. That was the start of the home theater. The Onkyo receiver was a good deal on a refurb, and the screen I built myself - it's made of 1X3 wood frame with white countertop material pinned to it. If it wasn't this collection of good deals and DIY, I wouldn't have been able to afford it!

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beowulf
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Re: Raven's Haven Cinema and Listening Room
Reply #3 - 12/03/13 at 05:51:56
 
What a cool place, I dig all the room treatments ... did you use a measuring device before applying them?
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Lonely Raven
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Re: Raven's Haven Cinema and Listening Room
Reply #4 - 12/03/13 at 06:00:45
 
I do have an old school measurement microphone that uses phantom power (mixing board) that I used when I first setup the room, but that was mostly for when I built the 21" subwoofer with the 2000 watt amp. I tumbled the big bitch around the room and took measurments to figure out which was the least damaging in the main seating position (read, *my* chair!  ;) ).  

For general reflections and imaging I've just been doing it by ear as I have a good ear for reflections and reverberation. Back at my old apartment when I first used REW to measure the room, it was because I kept hearing this reflection that was causing distortion...turns out it was a 5ms reflection on the ceiling...I was stunned that I could hear it, but the software backed that up, and tacking a blanket to the ceiling (temporarily) resolved the issue. That's part of what got me so serious about room treatments; being able to discern a 5ms reflection reinforced how much the room plays a part in the overall sound.

If you want your soundstage to be sharp, you need to give your ears a *clear picture* of the source audio...and *then* the reflections.

After I get the ZMA paid for and in my hands, I'm going to purchase a USB measurement mic and retest the room. By then I should have the garage put back together and can start making my 1D diffusers for the sides of the room as well.

Lots of work, but it's so going to be worth it! You think you can hear a difference in the chain now, once the room is sorted out, I'll be able to drop any sort of gear in here and really give it a listen!
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« Last Edit: 12/03/13 at 06:03:05 by Lonely Raven »  
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Re: Raven's Haven Cinema and Listening Room
Reply #5 - 12/14/13 at 02:34:58
 
Lonely Raven,

      Been looking at your room diffusers and was wondering about the diffusers on the ceiling. I was wondering if there is a distance that you are using on the diffussers directly above the speakers from the front of the speaker out into the room. Looks as though your speakers are directly under the first set. I'm thinking of doing something like that on my cathedral ceiling. I believe that is my largest source for room reflections. I was hoping to maybe do it with six of them total and the ceiling height is about 7 feet above my speakers on the right channel and about four feet above my left channel speakers. The center highest point is 12 1/2 feet high by the main beam. Is there any method to my madness that I should consider for distances out in front of the speakers. Really don't want to make holes in the ceiling till I'm reasonably sure where I am putting them. I know I am not able to explain it to the point you can get a visual on the room so maybe you could give me some ideas of what I should pay the most attention to.

Thanks for your help. Shoot me something when you get a chance!



Smiley



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« Last Edit: 12/14/13 at 02:39:30 by Digger »  
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Lonely Raven
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Re: Raven's Haven Cinema and Listening Room
Reply #6 - 12/14/13 at 03:11:49
 
I have more absorbers and diffusers than I need on the ceiling right now, but that's partly because it's helping both my two channel system that I sit up close for, and my home theater, which I sit another 5 feet back from the two channel seat. So the excess is just to cover a wider use.

The key to room treatment placement is using the mirror trick.

The mirror trick is having someone run a mirror over the ceiling (or side walls etc) while you sit in your listening position. When you can see your tweeter in the mirrors reflection, that's where you put your sound treatment. From there you can adjust by ear, or use a measurement tool like REW to measure the Frequency Response of the room, and the decay (room reverberation)

Sound treatment isn't to deaden to get rid of all reflections, it's a tool to dial in frequency response, and especially control the timing of the reflections.
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« Last Edit: 12/14/13 at 03:12:37 by Lonely Raven »  
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Raymundo
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Re: Raven's Haven Cinema and Listening Room
Reply #7 - 02/21/15 at 03:52:46
 
Dear LR,

What is your opinion on having the Mitsubishi HS5500 projector, as opposed to say - a flat screen?

Thanks in advance,

Raymundo
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Lonely Raven
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Re: Raven's Haven Cinema and Listening Room
Reply #8 - 02/21/15 at 16:50:52
 
Raymundo,

I love projection - I used to install home theaters back in the day - I have lots of experience with big rear projections screens, giant CRT, and HD projectors. I'm not so well versed in current flat screen TVs as I've been running projectors myself for 11+ years now.

I enjoy projectors because I literally have a 10' diagonal screen. The image is great, and I can focus on making the audio great. It really feels like a movie theater.

Flat panels have a few advantages though - you get much blacker blacks - and contrast is really important for good image quality and dynamic range. You also don't need to muck with blackout drapes and dimming the lights all the time. I pretty much live in a cave (much to my fiance's chagrin) in order get the room dark and the contrast good on my screen. I think you actually get a better picture on a flat panel as well, sharper images due to smaller pixels. But a lot of that is dependent on how far you're seated from the screen; it doesn't make a lick of difference if your resolution is 720p or 4k if you're sitting 17' away.

I have friends jumping on the 4k bandwagon right now - they are really into movies and a couple of them are camera men, producers etc. They love the better color gamut and sharpness and all that, but none of them have a 10' screen.  :)  I will eventually move to 4k projection myself once the format is better hammered out, and the projectors drop to around $2000 or so. For now, my old Mitsu is humming right along after all these years, and looks great!
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Raymundo
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Re: Raven's Haven Cinema and Listening Room
Reply #9 - 02/21/15 at 17:54:36
 
LR,

Thanks for laying out some pros and cons.  I am in the process of designing a new home.  We plan to move out of a tiny house into a larger house to accommodate a growing teenager.

We are planning a den with doors to make a good dedicated listening room (18x12x10) and a walk-out basement area nicknamed "teen territory" that would be rough and tumble enough to mount a projector on the 9" ceiling and project onto a wall.  

This is a far as we have gotten that is being inked in.  The walls and roof are still being modified to fit the floor plan, but the project is building a little momentum on the drawing table.

I am trying to learn from the experiences of others who have been down this road.  Planning to build a system from scratch for two-channel using Decware.  The basement system will have a lot of flexibility for experimentation and assembling.  I watched Pale Rider's process with great interest.  Like he, I have a Mac mini and Synology NAS as a part of the system so far.

Any suggestions from you and other forum members are appreciated.

Raymundo
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DBC
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Re: Raven's Haven Cinema and Listening Room
Reply #10 - 02/21/15 at 19:05:01
 
Raymundo,

I've been doing front projection for as long as LR. My first projector was an NEC LT155, 780P, 4:3 and now running a Panasonic PT-AE3000U, 1080P, 16:9. As LR states a 120" image will ruin you for life. IMO the large image is so captivating, more so than sweating screen gain, black levels and all the other little things.

My last place I had a screen with the NEC projector. When I moved 5 years ago I purchased the Panasonic with every intention of purchasing a new screen. The Image quality from the NEC to Panasonic was a big step up. Even shooting directly on the wall it is great. My plan now is to paint the wall per this article rather than a screen:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/paint_perfect_screen_$100.htm?page=Finding-the-P...

Projector Central is a great resource: http://www.projectorcentral.com/

You will need to read up on Projector Throw Distance & Lens Shift to best position the projector in your room for Max performance. As I recall using the Max Throw Distance and Minimum possible Lens Shift provides the brightest and best detail.

Good Luck.
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Oppo BDP-105D, SE84CKC amp, Peachtree 220se integrated amp, Klipsch RF-7 mains, Twin HSU MBM-12 MK2 mid bass modules, Twin HSU ULS-15 subs
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Re: Raven's Haven Cinema and Listening Room
Reply #11 - 02/21/15 at 19:37:38
 
Thanks DBC,

Those resources are very valuable.

Having had the ratio, seating distance, and screen size discussion previously, I understand completely.

The painted-on screen is a beautiful example of KISS.

Thanks again.

Raymundo
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