Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
Decware Audio Forums
08/28/14 at 06:14:29


Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 
Send Topic Print
Torii MK4 - Tube Rolling and Some Observations (Read 7857 times)
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 7376
Re: Torii MK4 - Tube Rolling and Some Observations
Reply #45 - 03/22/14 at 13:46:01
 
Each room and system is different. And program material. I find that a lusher presentation works better with most of what I listen to than a more clinical presentation. For me the material rules the hardware rather than I listen to things that sound great on my hardware.

May try those, they sound really good in guitar amps (I like a lush, warm guitar sound).
Back to top
 
 

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 7376
Re: Torii MK4 - Tube Rolling and Some Observations
Reply #46 - 03/22/14 at 13:58:37
 
Just ordered a quad of TAD 6L6 from cryoset. Using the KT66 has made me want to experiment. With the bass control on the Mk III I can fix any loose bass. My recent very positive experience with cryo'd TAD EL84 in my Zen C amp has me wanting to try more TAD tubes.
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 03/22/14 at 15:00:28 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
  IP Logged
grillski2000
Verified Member
**




Posts: 19
Re: Torii MK4 - Tube Rolling and Some Observations
Reply #47 - 03/23/14 at 04:09:23
 
Hey guys, I'm using the Cryoed NOS Reflector 6L6's right now. Just put them in so they are no where near as broke in as my KT66's were. I like them though. At first fire up they gave some good pops in the speakers then they kind of came across kind of "Thin" sounding. Then as the night wore on and on to the next day they def. sounded more full and "Lush" sounding than the day before. I like the KT66's as they do sound amazing, but I'm just curious as to what other tubes would sound like. The 6L6's def. made it sound like a total different animal than before. Seems to have more of the typical warm tube kind of sound. Looking forward to them breaking in more. Steve's description of them in the MK4 page are spot on. Why use them? It's different. I really cant tell much of a power deference. Love my MK4 conversion. Decware customer service is great too! Steve is a great help. I have only played around with the preamp and power tubes. Changing the tubes really does change everything.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 7376
Re: Torii MK4 - Tube Rolling and Some Observations
Reply #48 - 03/25/14 at 02:43:42
 
I have about six hours on a matched quad of cryo'd TAD 6L6WGC-STR in my newest Mk III and I am enjoying the sound. Sort of a cross between the cry'od 6CA7 and the cryo'd Tungsol KT-66 that I have been using recently. Quite dynmic and rich sounding, not quite as big and open as the KT-66 but more so than the 6CA7 and a darker, richer sound. Very promising, let's see how they burn in. I've been quite impressed with TAD tubes, they are very well made and the EL84s I bought for the C amp in my Dad's system sound superb.
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 03/25/14 at 03:04:05 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
  IP Logged
Greg12
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 128
Re: Torii MK4 - Tube Rolling and Some Observations
Reply #49 - 03/25/14 at 05:42:37
 
Hi Lon,

Real curious on how they turn out for you.  Nice description on them at cryoset.

 "The TAD 6L6WGC-STR is the preferred choice for classic tone with warm clean and rich, sweet mids when pushed."

 That would be a plus in my mind.   I also see TAD makes an EL34 which supposedly sound a lot like Mullards per the Cryoset description ,  and they would utilize the Haazen grid mod.

I may try them out soon, question is which type..??

Greg
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 03/25/14 at 06:11:47 by Greg12 »  

Torii MkIII, DM947 speakers, Oppo 105
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 7376
Re: Torii MK4 - Tube Rolling and Some Observations
Reply #50 - 03/25/14 at 11:41:30
 
I'll keep you posted. So far, 12 hours or so in, they're doing quite well. Like the 6CA7 they impart a vintage like sound. They have plenty of power for my needs. No real sonic detributes.
Back to top
 
 

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
  IP Logged
will
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 1186
Re: Torii MK4 - Tube Rolling and Some Observations
Reply #51 - 03/25/14 at 23:14:09
 
Greg12,

I seem to recall some time ago that Ron thought the Ruby EL34 BHT had the same look and construction as the TAD 34B-STR. So I thought, a lot cheaper, though lacking whatever selection process TAD uses and I got the Rubys. I like them, but I would not call them rich per se. If they are the same now, thought you might want to check.
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 03/25/14 at 23:16:44 by will »  

Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-7, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5 and Shunyata Defender, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab isocups and tube dampers...
  IP Logged
Greg12
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 128
Re: Torii MK4 - Tube Rolling and Some Observations
Reply #52 - 03/26/14 at 02:17:34
 
Thanks Will.  I'll keep them in mind for down the road. A lot of great choices.  Of course I still really like the OEM Tung-Sols, wonder it the cryo'd version do anything better.

But, it's all kind of moot for now.  Every time I start to think about ordering more tubes, I see a record I buy instead. Smiley

Greg

P.S.  Hope you are still enjoying the Mullards I sent you.  You're probably right in that I didn't give enough time to burn in.
Back to top
 
 

Torii MkIII, DM947 speakers, Oppo 105
  IP Logged
will
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 1186
Re: Torii MK4 - Tube Rolling and Some Observations
Reply #53 - 03/26/14 at 16:24:49
 
Yes I do like those Mullards, and they did change in good ways with more burnin, mostly opening/tightening up mid-mids down to a warm, balanced detail, while smoothing and softening the hardish edges in the upper mids. When I first heard them I thought they showed a variation of many unbroken in power tubes actually....but more exaggerated in the imbalance of open/bright upper mids and too thick low mids-to-bass.

I have not tried the Tungsol EL34s except cryo'd, but would not be surprised if the "softer" quality of "raw" tubes might not be a benefit to that particular tube. It is so articulate that the subtle cleaning up, clarifying, and extension cryo tends to do may be a little over-kill for my tastes with that particular tube...just speculating though!

I have been exploring a few KT66/6L6 types but not as much as I would like...been caught by too many things that have kept me from being able to play with my system...hopefully this will change in the next weeks for the better...audio therapy is what I could use more of theses days...so I hear you on buying records!
Back to top
 
 

Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-7, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5 and Shunyata Defender, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab isocups and tube dampers...
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 7376
Re: Torii MK4 - Tube Rolling and Some Observations
Reply #54 - 04/05/14 at 16:21:26
 
Well, ultimately the cryo'd Tung-Sol KT-66 are a better fit for my Mk III than the cryo'd TAD 6L6WGC-STR. I just can't not have that wide open midrange that the Tung-Sols bring, along with the forgiving top end. The TADs are quite good, but just not quite "involving" enough at this time in that machine. I'll put them back in at some point when more broken in.

In the meantime I've put the cryo'd TAD 6L6WGC-STR in the Torii Mk II that I have in my Dad's system ast the moment. They are sounding very good there. The Mk II has a slight retro vibe to the sound in comparison to my Mk IIIs and these tubes and the ERRs both complement this well. In the opposite of what Jim quotes Steve as saying about 6L6 tubes, these have a ver upward tilt with a tight and focused bass. At least in their current status of a few hundred hours on them. I've had to dial the treble way back with the treble cut circuit, but doing so I have a very nicely balanced and dynamic presentation, well-suited for the classical music that gets spun in this system. And they are very robustly built, quite handsome tubes.
Back to top
 
 

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
  IP Logged
dalerf
Verified Member
**




Posts: 13
Re: Torii MK4 - Tube Rolling and Some Observations
Reply #55 - 04/06/14 at 02:58:09
 
I seem to have gone full circle, amp came with the KT66, then I put in RCA 6L6 black plates, now I have Svetlana EL34, the EL34 seem to have more crunch and warmer sound than the RCA and KT66. I'm having so much trouble trying to tone down my Klipsch RF7-II speakers, the horns are so overpowering, next step is to have the speaker crossovers modified by DeanG, this is my last resort. I'm don't think I would buy horn speakers again. Sensitivity of 101db is too high, can only play new and mint records, picks up everything.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
ckc527
Verified Member
**




Posts: 3
Re: Torii MK4 - Tube Rolling and Some Observations
Reply #56 - 08/02/14 at 00:40:16
 
Anyone try TAD KT66 from Cryoset in their MK4 ?

Thanks
ckc
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Lord Soth
Seasoned Member
****


I'm an American
BadAss!

Posts: 246
Re: Torii MK4 - Tube Rolling and Some Observations
Reply #57 - 08/02/14 at 08:18:14
 
Hi Dalerf,

In my setup, the Torii MK4 works well with 88-89 db speakers.

I rarely go above 10 out of 20 clicks on my volume control.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 7376
Re: Torii MK4 - Tube Rolling and Some Observations
Reply #58 - 08/02/14 at 13:15:39
 
Wow. You don't listen very loud! Smiley
Back to top
 
 

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100,Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Evo,Ultra Linear, Iso-PodMapleshade:Double Heiix Plus.Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
  IP Logged
Lord Soth
Seasoned Member
****


I'm an American
BadAss!

Posts: 246
Re: Torii MK4 - Tube Rolling and Some Observations
Reply #59 - 08/20/14 at 19:08:56
 
[PROLOGUE - NOS PHILIPS METAL BASE EL34 vs NOS GEC KT66 GRAYGLASS]

After reading about Greg's positive experience

http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1385495950/30

with the Torii MK3 and his preference of the EL34 over KT66 tubes, I just had to tube roll and finally pit my NOS Philips Holland Metal Base EL34s against my NOS GEC Grayglass KT66 power tubes.

The long and short of it is that I prefer the EL34s. Smiley

Except for the output tubes, my audio chain ( and other tubes used) is still the same ( details at the end of this post).

Reasons for liking the EL34 :-

(a)Midrange
The EL34 is known as the Queen of Midrange tubes.

It imparts a more seductive tone to the mids.

This is the primary reason for my personal preference!!!

(b)Higher Resolution

It must be the Hazen Grid being activated.

The KT66 is not veiled in any way but the EL34 just sounds much clearer.

(c) Soundstage

Again, the KT66 is not congested in any way but the EL34 expands the soundstage by quite a fair bit.

Adele's live performance of "Set Fire to the Rain" gave me an even more immersive sonic experience.


Weaknesses of the EL34 vs KT66

(a) Bass
The KT66 has tighter and more pronounced bass.

(b) Treble
The KT66 has sweeter sounding highs.

Stringed instruments sound much better using KT66 tubes.

Conclusion
I listen more to music with vocals as opposed to instrumental music.

There really is something magical about the (midrange of) metal based EL34s that makes me willing to sacrifice the better bass and treble of the KT66.

Please note that the KT66 is not lacking in any way.
It still ticks all the sonic boxes in an audiophile's checklist.

For those who are not willing to spend any extra on getting a NOS Quad of Metal base EL34s ( currently about US$1 Grand a Quad), I have the following suggestion.

I'm not affiliated with this tube seller in any way
http://psvanetube.com/wordpress/store/products/psvane-philips-holland-metal-base...

But if you want to test the waters, then I suggest giving the metal base replicas a go ( currently at US$ 350 per Quad) .

Like myself, you might actually prefer the metal base EL34s.

Cheers!

My Audio Chain consists of

Oppo BDP 95
-> Soundsilver Symmetry Interconnects
-> Torii MK 4
-> Clearday Double Shotgun Speaker Cables
-> Alesis Monitor One Mk2 (Passive) Speakers (TEC 1994 Winner)

Tubes Used (Kept Constant during input tube-rolling)

Rectifier : Brimar 5R4GY "D' Getter
VR Tubes : RCA 0A3 "D" Getter,
                RCA 0C2 "0" Getter (any "D" getter versions out there???)
Preamp Tubes : Holland Herleen Pinched Waist PCC88 "D" Getter

Output Tubes : NOS GEC KT66 Gray Glass "D" Getter
                      Vs
                      NOS Philips Holland Metal Base EL34

MK4 Settings
Speaker : 8 Ohms
Reconstructive Feedback : Off
Bass : Off
Treble : Middle Position
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 08/21/14 at 17:36:08 by Lord Soth »  
  IP Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 
Send Topic Print