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AC regeneration for Decware amps benefits (Read 12924 times)
hifitubes
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AC regeneration for Decware amps benefits
10/22/13 at 06:53:11
 
Has anyone used PS Audio regenerators to a benefit for Decware amps?

I'm overseas but have 110 on "camp", and looking at getting a Richard Gray Pro 400 for some filtering and isolation first.
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beowulf
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Re: AC regeneration for Decware amps benefits
Reply #1 - 10/22/13 at 07:42:33
 
I know Lon uses a couple of PS Audio components related to power, hopefully he'll chime in and give his opinions.  

The PerfectWave PowerBase looks pretty interesting to me, and depending on which Decware amps you use I think it's possible to put 2 components on one base.  It kind of kills to birds with one stone as it filters power and also has antivibration properties.
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Lon
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Re: AC regeneration for Decware amps benefits
Reply #2 - 10/22/13 at 12:00:21
 
h,

I have been using a Power Plant Premier for several years and I LOVE it. I read a lot about not plugging amps into power centers, but every time I unplug the Torii from this and listen for a day or so, I plug it back into the premier. In my previous home I had horrible power, and the Premier made a huge difference. I have better power now in my new place, but the Premier delivers its magic all the same.

I also use the PowerBases, and as Hans says they do kill two birds with one stone: isolation from vibrations and electrical isolation as well. I don't know how well they would operate without the Premier, but I bet well. I've been lucky to get mine all at a good discounted price.
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DVD-A1UDCI, Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Stradivarius, Ultra Linear+Evo ICs, Iso-Pods,Mapleshade:Double Heiix Plus,Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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maddog07
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Re: AC regeneration for Decware amps benefits
Reply #3 - 10/22/13 at 17:43:45
 
+1 on the PS Audio regenerators.  I used API Power Wedges to good effect for years on source components... results mixed with power amps unless the API Power Enhancers were also utilized.  When I auditioned a PS Power Plant Premier in my system - it was a revelation.  I consider them an "essential" component anymore.  About a year ago I upgraded to the new PS Perfect Wave P5 regenerator... I never A/B'd it with the old Premier... but it at least does everything sonically that the older model did, probably more.  Has lots of new useful functionality and is cosmetically much nicer.  If you can get a good buy on one - do not hesitate.  The older power plant premier's are known for becoming problematic as they age.  I can't tell you exactly what goes wrong in them, but your components transformers will start humming... like some DC is being dumped on the outputs of the power plant.  My old Premier did this and I had to send it in for repair.  Everything plugged into my P5 has remained dead silent so far - including my Decware Torii MK.III that I currently have and the SE34I.3 that I used to have... along with my Aesthetix Calypso, DAC, etc.
the performance of everything goes up when plugged into the power plant, more low level resolution, quieter backgrounds, more micro detail, clearer, cleaner, more "there" - there.
I have heard Steve discuss "power conditioners" before... what I heard was that "some" of the more costly ones actually provide benefits in his opinion, however a lot of them just produce a "difference" which in many cases is a step or two in the wrong direction away from clarity and dynamics.  I concur as I have heard this with my own ears as well.  I believe I read somewhere where Steve suggested a simple balanced power transformer for noisy power issues.  These can be obtained from companies like Tripplite for not too much $$$.  I have it on my todo list to try one of these sometime and see how it compares to the PS power plant I have... it would be a huge savings if the balanced power transformer produced the same sonic benefits as the PS regenerator does.
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Decware Torii MK3, Wyred4Sound DAC2, Theta Digital Miles, Emotiva UMC-1, Emotiva XPA-5, Aesthetix Calypso, Marsh P200b, Martin Logan Vista, Audio Nirvana 12" Alnico's, PS Audio PW P5, Goertz, Kimber, Nordost and DIY wires, PSA pwr cords, I'm outta room..
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Lon
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Re: AC regeneration for Decware amps benefits
Reply #4 - 10/22/13 at 18:21:43
 
Maddog,

I used the Tripplite transformers Steve recommended for years. NO comparison to the Premier, none whatsoever. I wouldn't bother personally.

I've had no trouble at all with my Premier, hope I don't! I can't live without it. Probably should be saving up for a P5.
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« Last Edit: 10/22/13 at 18:22:35 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DVD-A1UDCI, Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Stradivarius, Ultra Linear+Evo ICs, Iso-Pods,Mapleshade:Double Heiix Plus,Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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beowulf
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Re: AC regeneration for Decware amps benefits
Reply #5 - 10/22/13 at 20:58:49
 
Another interesting product I've read about is the Shunyata PS8 Power Distributor ($695) that delivers up to 20Amps of continuous power.  When combined with the Shunyata Defender ($195) and Shunyata Venom High Current Power Cord ($295) you have a 8 outlet Power Distribution, Power Conditioning and Surge Protection for under $1200.
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« Last Edit: 10/22/13 at 21:00:05 by beowulf »  
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maddog07
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Re: AC regeneration for Decware amps benefits
Reply #6 - 10/22/13 at 21:51:07
 
these are "passive" devices... I would encourage one to try/listen to them of course, but being passive, all they can possibly due is "filter"... like the API Power Wedges I used to use do, which BTW do have balancing transformers on each set of isolated outlets.  They did/do have an effect... mostly a removal of grunge and overall smoothing effect.  I felt it beneficial on most sources, but they had a tendency to suck the life out of power amps unless used in conjunction with API's power enhancers.  I have tried other passive conditioners over the years also, Monster, Panamax, APC, etc.  Some actually made things sound worse in my opinion, at best they were similar to the API's effects.  But I've never heard anything do what the PS Regenerators do - not even close.  Their impact is not something subtle or something you have to listen to carefully over a period of time, going back-n-forth - it's immediate and pronounced.  But I haven't heard everything either, by any stretch of the imagination.  I think power conditioner products are second only to "wire"(IC's, speaker & power) when it comes to the proliferation of snake oil, fairy dust and voodoo science... but that's a whole nother topic....caveat emptor... be careful with your $$ here and absolutely "try before you buy".
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Decware Torii MK3, Wyred4Sound DAC2, Theta Digital Miles, Emotiva UMC-1, Emotiva XPA-5, Aesthetix Calypso, Marsh P200b, Martin Logan Vista, Audio Nirvana 12" Alnico's, PS Audio PW P5, Goertz, Kimber, Nordost and DIY wires, PSA pwr cords, I'm outta room..
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hifitubes
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Re: AC regeneration for Decware amps benefits
Reply #7 - 10/23/13 at 07:01:47
 
Wow, thanks for all the replies!

I'm considering a P3 for my overseas system where I have 110v in my house on "camp" (like a base), surrounded by 240v lol. A little city running on 110v - not just my house literally.

I have a few issues here I hope the P3 will cure, rather than adding an isolation transformer, although those seem like a good option for current delivery. I have been considering a Richard Gray Pro 400 20A.

I currently own a cheaper, smaller 100w P100 AC regenerator which I can only use on my DACs as the MT and Rachel draw to much power and overload the transformer in the regenerator.

Right now, I don't have a dedicated line. But I do have a unique 20A circuit running direct to listening room from breaker - 3 outlets - so just some lights TV and HIFI.

My dishwasher was spitting a harsh buzz (like a monster ground loop) up to my tube amp. Turn off dishwasher and all is good. I re-grounded the dishwasher and it's very very very faint now when running.

In general, the power here is stable but iffy imo. A UPS will show pretty stable voltage so I'm not sure what the problem is? Surges? Light bulbs burn out all the time. When I returned from repat to the USA last year, my subwoofer had a blown cap, but no blown fuse. My neighbor just blew his MLs, and a BRAND NEW Classe preamp. And he had a 1K power strip.

My system consists of:

(2) DACs pulling 20-40 watts total
(1) 6w/ch Rachel EL34 tube amp pulls 70-90watts
(1) Mini Torii on the way
(1) 250w subwoofer with plate amp

I asked PS Audio:

Does the P3 isolate when doing its AC>DC>AC conversion? Or is my problem of bad shared ground ? going to let noise slip through and other means (dedicated line, grounding rod) are needed?

Quote:
"Unfortunately, the P3 does not offset DC coming back onto the line which the dishwasher could very well be doing.  Nor does it resolve any ground loops.

They do make cheater plugs that might work.  Contact Music Direct.  They may have a recommendation or solution if that’s the case."


So my plan was isolate but now I'm thinking of selling the small regenerator and buying P3 again, so I could run all my components on it, not sure! One of my friends uses:

Quote:
"One of the larger Signal DU-3, DU-5, or DU-7 will provide plenty of current for your amplifier. I just put a DU-3 on my amp this week, and it is doing some nice things to my soundstage already."
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« Last Edit: 10/23/13 at 07:10:25 by hifitubes »  
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hifitubes
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Re: AC regeneration for Decware amps benefits
Reply #8 - 10/23/13 at 07:56:42
 
All I have now, that I'm isolating the PC from the DAC via Adnaco Optical USB system, is some hum.

I can't hear it listening position. It's a little tube rush and hum, but I do need to test again tonight with dishwasher since I have a new DAC.

I think if I go for anything, given my system is "low-powered" and tube-based, it would be a P3.

I guess I'm just worried about getting ti all the over here and I get poor performance or more noise.

These don't create any negative harmonics themselves do they? I was a little surprised at the response from PS Audio, I figured going AC>DC>AC would have to isolate.
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beowulf
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Re: AC regeneration for Decware amps benefits
Reply #9 - 10/24/13 at 00:52:08
 
I'm not sure if you're aware, but PS Audio is running a 30% off special for the month of October.  I think it's called the Clean Out Your Closet Sale wherein you can trade in an old peice of audio gear (cables, sources, etc.) to get 30% off.

Quote:
PS Audio Newsletter,
Components can be anything hanging out in your closet from any manufacturer at any cost.  Cables can be interconnects, speaker or power cables from any audio or cable company.  

To take advantage of this offer, which includes free shipping and our unconditional 30-day in-home trial period, call us or head to our webstore, choose whatever piece or pieces of PS Audio gear you wish to own, go to the checkout page of our website and enter the discount code CABLE if you are just sending us a cable, COMPONENT if you are only planning on sending a component or COMPONENTCABLE if you are sending us both.  

Depending on which discount code you enter, you will receive either a 10%, 20% or a 30% discount on your entire order.  We'll then ship your new gear to your door via FedEx and you have a full 30 days to try it out.  We'll also send you a RMA form and when you're ready, simply return your trade-ups using the RMA number.  It's simple, easy and a great opportunity.

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« Last Edit: 10/24/13 at 00:53:31 by beowulf »  
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hifitubes
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Re: AC regeneration for Decware amps benefits
Reply #10 - 10/24/13 at 04:16:06
 
Ok, thanks, I have a lead on one for 1300 shipped.

Also, do transformers hum because of DC get dumped on the line?

Just noticed my Rachel amp is humming kind of loud. Not noticed that before.

Also hear a buzz from my Vega DAC ???
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hifitubes
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Re: AC regeneration for Decware amps benefits
Reply #11 - 10/24/13 at 07:36:02
 
Does the Shunyata stuff help with DC in the line?
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hifitubes
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Re: AC regeneration for Decware amps benefits
Reply #12 - 10/24/13 at 08:00:39
 
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« Last Edit: 10/24/13 at 10:44:38 by hifitubes »  
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hifitubes
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Re: AC regeneration for Decware amps benefits
Reply #13 - 10/24/13 at 10:44:00
 
Of, so I can get:

Used like-new PS Audio P# for 1300 shipped.
Consonance D-Linear 15 Ultra Reference Power Conditioning System for $1650 shipped.
Richard Gray RPGC 400 PRo 20A for $425 shipped brand new
Maybe one of these outlets(vs. PS Audio, Teslaplex outlet, Maestro)

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maddog07
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Re: AC regeneration for Decware amps benefits
Reply #14 - 10/25/13 at 22:36:57
 
don't know what to tell you hifitubes that hasn't already been said... you're just going to have to listen and decide for yourself with your own ears, in your own room, with your own system.  All the devices you mention here are "passive" except for the PS regenerators.  I have never heard a passive power conditioner yield what I perceive to be the improvements in sonics, that the PS regenerator does.  My experience has been that most of these products produce a "difference", i.e. have some kind of impact on the sound - sometimes a perceived improvement, sometimes not, sometimes just different.  The regenerators are the only ones that made me think OMG, holy cow, do you hear that!  The entire fidelity spectrum of my system was elevated.  I could not live without one in my system these days.  And this from the first note played via equipment plugged into them.  This impression/experience has held true for about 5 years now.  Nothing has unseated them yet in my system.  

Nobody here can tell you what to do - only relay our experiences.
Let us know what path you take and what you end up "hearing"....
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Decware Torii MK3, Wyred4Sound DAC2, Theta Digital Miles, Emotiva UMC-1, Emotiva XPA-5, Aesthetix Calypso, Marsh P200b, Martin Logan Vista, Audio Nirvana 12" Alnico's, PS Audio PW P5, Goertz, Kimber, Nordost and DIY wires, PSA pwr cords, I'm outta room..
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