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AC regeneration for Decware amps benefits (Read 11610 times)
beowulf
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Re: AC regeneration for Decware amps benefits
Reply #60 - 12/10/13 at 08:44:21
 
I'm not sure if I missed this in this thread (as it's been a while since I read the whole thing), but what about having a licensed electrician install a dedicated line to your audio system?

From what I understand, the costs could even be cheaper than a lot of the top power conditioners out there.  A dedicated line should improve both the safety and sonic output of your A/V gear.
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« Last Edit: 12/10/13 at 08:45:58 by beowulf »  
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hifitubes
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Re: AC regeneration for Decware amps benefits
Reply #61 - 12/10/13 at 11:45:18
 
I have a faux dedicated line in my house. 20A breaker going right to my room. Even after checking ground and neutral at box, I still get DC, which results in P3 buzzing and filtering. Maybe I need to move all other appliances or the same leg as my 20A circuit.
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Lonely Raven
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Re: AC regeneration for Decware amps benefits
Reply #62 - 12/10/13 at 20:34:36
 
Quote:
I'm not sure if I missed this in this thread (as it's been a while since I read the whole thing), but what about having a licensed electrician install a dedicated line to your audio system?

From what I understand, the costs could even be cheaper than a lot of the top power conditioners out there.  A dedicated line should improve both the safety and sonic output of your A/V gear.


This depends on what the issues are that your line is having. It will *help* if something noisy is on the same circuit as your audio gear, but that same "dedicated" circuit goes back to the same panel with all the rest of the noisy circuits in the house.

Line conditioners and other gear both filter out some of that noise, and protect your gear from surges, something a dedicated line doesn't do.

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Lonely Raven
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Re: AC regeneration for Decware amps benefits
Reply #63 - 12/31/13 at 01:06:47
 
Just got this from PS Audio - I still have my heart set on a P5 or P10 for my shared Home Theater/Two Channel setup.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

New MultiWave available
Beginning January 1, 2014, all P5 and P10 Power Plants shipped from the factory will have a new version of MultiWave installed called Variable MultiWave.  This new MultiWave feature has six positions of strength and the user can select which one works best for them.

This is a major feature upgrade for the Power Plants and helps connected equipment sound their best by adjusting the strength of the sine wave's timing.  If you'd like to find out more details on how this works and what it does, we've prepared a special page you can go to here.

http://www.psaudio.com/support/multiwave-firmware-update/


And the best news?  We're offering to upgrade any P5 or P10 Power Plant for free.  This can happen by you going to this page and downloading the file, loading it onto an SD card and following the instructions.  Or, you can go here and purchase a preprogrammed SD card if you're in the States.  I wish we could sell these outside the US but we haven't figured out an easy way to do this.  For those outside the US, you can simply download the files or contact your dealer for help.

http://www.psaudio.com/shop/variable-multiwave-firmware-update/

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« Last Edit: 12/31/13 at 01:10:40 by Lonely Raven »  
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beowulf
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Re: AC regeneration for Decware amps benefits
Reply #64 - 12/31/13 at 09:34:07
 
Anybody check out the Balanced Power Technologies stuff?  Their Ultra Isolators look pretty interesting.
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« Last Edit: 12/31/13 at 09:36:22 by beowulf »  
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Lonely Raven
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Re: AC regeneration for Decware amps benefits
Reply #65 - 12/31/13 at 15:46:53
 

Wow, the specs read like they really did that no-holds-barred.

For that price, I'm wondering if you shouldn't be looking into regeneration instead. There are open box P5 for about that much, and for $2990 open box P10.

IMHO - the iso-transformer needs to be massive to keep from starving the amp - I don't see the weight listed on that Ultra-Iso, but judging from the shopping list of features and options, I'm betting it's properly weighty.

The advantage of good Regeneration is that they can handle current peaks better, assuming they are designed to have big storage capabilities.

I really wish I could demo more power gear...there are so many concepts that all make sense on paper, but I want to see who really pulls it off...and honestly, if our Decware amps really even need 70 Amp peak current draw for transients!

Sorry, rambling again. Great product specs make me think out loud.
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beowulf
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Re: AC regeneration for Decware amps benefits
Reply #66 - 12/31/13 at 21:54:02
 
Even their Pure Power Center power distributor is a GREAT deal if you need to expand - the PPC @ only $299 gives the Shunyata PS8 @ $695 a serious run for the money for less than half the cost.  Although the Shunyata looks cooler, the chasis on the PPC is pure copper so I would say it is technically superior in that regard.
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« Last Edit: 12/31/13 at 21:56:48 by beowulf »  
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beowulf
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Re: AC regeneration for Decware amps benefits
Reply #67 - 12/31/13 at 22:01:16
 
Quote:
LR said,
IMHO - the iso-transformer needs to be massive to keep from starving the amp - I don't see the weight listed on that Ultra-Iso, but judging from the shopping list of features and options, I'm betting it's properly weighty.


From the picture it looks pretty massive ...
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Lonely Raven
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Re: AC regeneration for Decware amps benefits
Reply #68 - 12/31/13 at 23:27:02
 

That made me giggle like a little girl - that's awesome! LOL

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beowulf
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Re: AC regeneration for Decware amps benefits
Reply #69 - 01/01/14 at 02:21:49
 
Quote:
LR said,
For that price, I'm wondering if you shouldn't be looking into regeneration instead. There are open box P5 for about that much, and for $2990 open box P10.

The advantage of good Regeneration is that they can handle current peaks better, assuming they are designed to have big storage capabilities.


I'm not entirely convinced of Regeneration over Passive Filtration.  I think Caelin Gabriel makes a strong argument against it compared to McGowan's reasons for it.  Interestingly Gabriel's reasoning against regeneration is McGowan's reasoning for it. Grin

It also seems that there are more passive designs on the market compared to regeneration although that may be because of the associated costs of producing regeneration devices?

I'm thinking that ... how bad the power is in your area could be an important factor of which device to choose.

From what I'm understanding by reading Gabriel's comments is that - When you flat top the sine wave voltage in your home - it has more to do with either the wiring in the wall or the power transformer feeding your house is maxed out in its ability to deliver peak current. The voltage falls because there is not enough current reserve in the power system not because the voltage level needs to be adjusted.  

My thoughts right now is that the ZMA is a super powered muscle car and when you add a rengenerator on your line it's acting in a sense like an amp which is also drawing current so it is actually in competition with your other devices (i.e your ZMA) ~ I wouldn't want to starve it.  I don't know if this would be that big a problem with a little flea watt amp - but from the looks of it the ZMA is a beast.
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« Last Edit: 01/01/14 at 02:23:34 by beowulf »  
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Lon
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Re: AC regeneration for Decware amps benefits
Reply #70 - 01/01/14 at 03:33:26
 
I think there are always more than one way to skin a power circuit. And I can say that I have not felt in any way that my Torii Mk III is held back by my Power Plant Premier drawing all it wants from the wall. After all, the Premier just hoses that down and squeagies the grunge off it and then dishes it up piping hot to the Torii. It may draw a lot but it's not at all stingy about paying it forward.

There have been times when I think "Why do I have the Torii plugged in here, it has its own cleansing system?" and I plug the Torii into the wall and squirm a few days and plug it back in. Straight into the wall the Torii is brighter, zippier, pushier and not in the best ways. Plug the Torii back into the Premier and it opens up and steps back. Just right, as if a daiphonous gauze has fallen and an ease rolls out. I always prefer that Torii to the one that dances straight off the wall.

But ever since Steve mentioned isolation transformers I've been working on the power coming into the Torii and other components and the journey has been very rewarding. I've had several really satisfying configurations, but this current one just seems like Goldilock's porridge for me.
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Digger
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Re: AC regeneration for Decware amps benefits
Reply #71 - 01/01/14 at 06:35:44
 


Lonely Raven,

      I couldn't find in the specs of the ZMA any max current draw for the amp. I wouldn't think with the size of the capacitors you would need to worry to much about that that is what they are designed to do. My McIntosh amps capacitors are about twice the size of those on the mystery amp. Before I sent it back to be refurbished during heavy bass passages the lights on the circuit with it would dim with every beat of the kick drum. They replaced the two large capacitors and some other parts that needed replaced and now it will motor right through those bass passages without even causing the lights to dim or flicker. The amp is near 40 years old so it will be a long time before I will need to worry about new capacitors again hopefully. The old ones were pretty much done. I think with a new properly working amp you wouldn't need any thing close to 70 amps peak with the way Steve has designed it. It would be interesting to know what the gauge of wire is in the power cord to the mystery amp what ever the load is it will not exceed the rating of the wire. As long as your power supply has a steady current output you should be good to go!



Cool



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« Last Edit: 01/01/14 at 06:49:57 by Digger »  
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Lonely Raven
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Re: AC regeneration for Decware amps benefits
Reply #72 - 01/01/14 at 17:35:58
 

Some more interesting info.

http://www.sixmoons.com/audioreviews/bluehorizon/1.html


I have some more learning to do, but I'm developing some of my own thoughts on Isolation vs Regeneration - right now regeneration makes the most sense to me as I believe it does some things that Isolation simply can't. That said, the article I posted above puts a dent in the P10 that I'm aiming for.
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beowulf
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Re: AC regeneration for Decware amps benefits
Reply #73 - 01/03/14 at 17:19:49
 
@ LR - that defintely look like a cool device ... a little pricey though.
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Lonely Raven
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Re: AC regeneration for Decware amps benefits
Reply #74 - 01/03/14 at 17:42:23
 

Yeah, I can't even find one available - but the point of the article was that they tested it on the P10, and the P10, while providing perfect sine-wave, wasn't taking care of the radio stations and noise. You would think a $5000 device would handle that.

I've not yet reached out to Paul of PS Audio and asked him what he thought about the the P10 in the article. For all I know they have addressed this issue since then.

IMHO, a "perfect" device, would:

Have enough capacity to handle a decent sized amp, and modern sources without A/C crosstalk between devices.

Regenerate power providing a perfect sine wave 120v 60hz

Filter any extraneous noise, radio stations, and DC from the line.

Provide some sort of well of instantaneous current for big amps to draw from during dynamic passages.  

The P10 sounds like it might do all this, but I need more info.

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