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NAD M51 Direct Digital DAC (Read 7734 times)
maddog07
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Re: NAD M51 Direct Digital DAC
Reply #45 - 09/21/13 at 18:04:51
 
impossible to hear every component that comes down the pike... even if you are retired & financially independent.  I am pleased that you are satisfied with the Anedio in your system.  Satisfaction is what its all about.
By a huge overwhelming margin, there are more rave reviews on the Wyred than there are less enthralled, poor or less favorable reviews.  So what!  What does this prove?  Nothing!  Building ones system based solely on somebody else's opinion of something is a recipe for discontent and empty pockets.  Last months, "this is the greatest thing since sliced bread review" will be old news and considered less than stellar by next month.  Reviewers preferences and hearing are as varied as ours... and they have vastly different motivations for their written opinions!

"live with them for awhile" - if once broken-in (if new) and warmed up and you still have to listen hard and carefully "for awhile" to hear differences... hmmm... one may be acclimating to the sound... humans do "adapt" - make no mistake.  And perhaps there just isn't that big of a difference if you have to listen "long and hard" to hear it - which was one of my points to begin with.  I try a lot of new, latest and greatest stuff out during the course of a year... most of the new & improved, is well...ugh, just "new".  So it goes back or is passed along to the next "seeker of truth"...

I have had my Dac-2 for about a year.  The others I currently have, I have had for 2 years or more.  I've had my Theta the longest and have been a "fan boy" of Theta every since they came on the scene in my locale in the late 80's.  An older Theta DAC will hold its own with anything made today on redbook CD sourced sound.  I don't expect anyone to take my word for it - just listen for yourself if you get a chance.

Also...our "age" comes into play.  If you're the age of 25, you can't hear 20khz anymore.  If you're over 50, one would be lucky to hear much above 10-12khz.  This means... that as we age... we tend to find sound that it is tilted up in the treble more to our liking simply because we can't hear "up there" very well anymore and a system that is tilted up in those frequency ranges will sound more detailed, more resolute, more clarity to one who's hearing is less than perfect at those frequencies.  And thus... our children, and younger "philes" tend to find sound that I find well "balanced" and to my liking to be "bright" and forward.
Always a good reality check to pull out the disc with the 1/3 octave test tones on it and your SPL meter and listen at least yearly.  Adjust to comfortably loud at 1khz, and then watch the meter and run the scale from 20hz up to 20khz... the meter will tell you what you should be hearing, your brain will tell if you ears can hear it anymore - assuming the given system can reproduce the frequencies.  I like to pull my 23 yr old daughter or teenage nephews and nieces into the room when doing this occasionally... they can clearly demonstrate the limits of my hearing to me...  ;D

Anyway... Wyred DAC-2, to Aesthetic Calypso to Torii-3 to my single,full-range, high efficiency driver speakers... no darkness detectable.  I can hear Diana Krall wet her lips, sense the deflection of her head turning away from and toward the mic, I can hear musicians turn pages on the music, chairs creek as the players shift their positions and the hum of guitar amps, voice echoes off the walls of the recording studio - it's good enough - I'm there.  Lots of paths to sonic nirvana... and it sounds like you've found yours - I'm also pretty content at the moment - we should be thankful and just "enjoy the music"!

orangecrush... are you attending the fest next month?  would be a pleasure to meet you and "talk shop"...
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Decware Torii MK3, Wyred4Sound DAC2, Theta Digital Miles, Emotiva UMC-1, Emotiva XPA-5, Aesthetix Calypso, Marsh P200b, Martin Logan Vista, Audio Nirvana 12" Alnico's, PS Audio PW P5, Goertz, Kimber, Nordost and DIY wires, PSA pwr cords, I'm outta room..
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orangecrush
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Re: NAD M51 Direct Digital DAC
Reply #46 - 09/21/13 at 21:39:38
 
I wish I could attend, but I am geographically challenged. Western Canada.

I find that I am gradually increasing the treble on the Torii more and more. I think my V-Caps are still breaking in. Just around the 1000 hour mark now.

I have never heard a 'bad review' about the W4S, just preference comes into play. Have fun at Decfest.
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stone_of_tone
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Re: NAD M51 Direct Digital DAC
Reply #47 - 09/24/13 at 04:24:21
 
I take delivery on the D2 Thursday. They lowered the price! I am receiving a $222 credit off the $1470 I paid.  .....gotta like it!

This gives me a couple more nights on my M51. She is spreading her wings....with more time on her. I like the fact that NAD knew despite all the hi-rez capability....that includes HDMI input....they better make sure out of the box....plugged into Coax/SPDIF/RCA...(old School out of Transport) it better show it has something to stick around for (and burn/break it in)! IT does.

I do suspect that the Anedio D2 will be the same. It has USB, Coax & BNC....so I doubt I will be disappointed. I have BNC with my Alchemy gear.

The Mystery Amp just got posted up for PRE-ORDER. I am debating whether to order this Amp or a Pass Labs. Good problem to have...I think I will try the PASS first, because I have great sound with two of Steve's Amps....and need some muscle with the PASS when in the mood.     -Stone
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Sony as Transport
Illuminati D-60
Audio Alchemy DTI-Pro
Audio Magic Mystic Reference I2S
Audio Alchemy DDE 3.0
Kimber Select 1030
Zen Select #76
Kimber Select 3033
Polk Audio LS-90
Tri-config/TipToes & Vibropods underneath Speakers
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Lon
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Re: NAD M51 Direct Digital DAC
Reply #48 - 09/24/13 at 11:53:35
 
Really? Pass Labs? You didn't learn your lesson with the Prima Luna?  Just go Decware! Cheesy
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+(2),Torii Mk III, PS Audio PWT+PWD MkII,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100, Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable IC: Evo and UL, Mapleshade:Double Heiix Samsonv2+v3 and 4"platforms,Herbie's IsoCups+Tendft
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stone_of_tone
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Re: NAD M51 Direct Digital DAC
Reply #49 - 09/24/13 at 16:13:21
 
I know Lon, I should have my head examined!  ;D

With careful thought....I ordered a Simaudio MOON W5.3 SE Power Amplifier!
I should have it by Thursday or Friday. I will get the shipping details later today. I got it with a PS Audio 10 Power Cord too.

Anyway, I will be running my NAD M51 & Anedio D2 directly into this Behemoth... .

My SE84CS will always be used & the Super Zen CKC. However, I am going after some serious muscle in the Listening Room when I want it.

I do plan on ordering the Mystery Amp too (for serious muscle). I am going to let the early adopters "flesh it out" and I will order one in the Spring!  -Stone
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« Last Edit: 09/24/13 at 16:15:32 by stone_of_tone »  

Sony as Transport
Illuminati D-60
Audio Alchemy DTI-Pro
Audio Magic Mystic Reference I2S
Audio Alchemy DDE 3.0
Kimber Select 1030
Zen Select #76
Kimber Select 3033
Polk Audio LS-90
Tri-config/TipToes & Vibropods underneath Speakers
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Lon
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"Love without
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Philip K. D*ck

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Re: NAD M51 Direct Digital DAC
Reply #50 - 09/24/13 at 16:36:47
 
Okay. Send the Moon back and keep the AC-10. Smiley
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+(2),Torii Mk III, PS Audio PWT+PWD MkII,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100, Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable IC: Evo and UL, Mapleshade:Double Heiix Samsonv2+v3 and 4"platforms,Herbie's IsoCups+Tendft
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beowulf
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Re: NAD M51 Direct Digital DAC
Reply #51 - 09/24/13 at 22:01:22
 
Moon? I thought I read somewhere that it was only going to be Decware from now on ... oh wait that was last week and now it's this week Grin
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AiDee
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Re: NAD M51 Direct Digital DAC
Reply #52 - 09/24/13 at 23:17:14
 
^ Yep, a week is a long time in audio Grin

Stone, way back on page 1 you commented on the Parker Audio speakers. I was considering buying their 95mk2 or their 92 dB trolls. Sounds like you don't find them resolving though? Slightly O.T. but could you elaborate on their good and bad points?

Looking forward to the forthcoming D2 and M51 comparisons!

Meanwhile, the BMC puredac is going from strength to strength...possibly when Audio Addict gets his, we'll hear how it stands up to the PWD2...
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beowulf
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Re: NAD M51 Direct Digital DAC
Reply #53 - 09/25/13 at 02:58:32
 
Speaking of Speakers Wink

Has anybody heard the Verity line?  I noticed that they are a tube friendly manufacturer (which seems kind of rare these days).  Some of their line is towards the mid 90's in efficiency and they do something with the crossover that seem tube friendly too.  IMO that's not too shabby!

I know they are on the expensive side of things, but the Decware Torii review on Tone makes me think that they might play nicely with Decware.

Just curious...
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« Last Edit: 09/25/13 at 03:02:05 by beowulf »  
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stone_of_tone
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Re: NAD M51 Direct Digital DAC
Reply #54 - 09/25/13 at 14:55:07
 
.....ahhh, come on guys....the Moon W-5.3 SE will be fun...far as sand amps go!
Actually, a great value in Solid State Hi-End.
-Class A for the first 5 watts
-No overall feedback
-JFET input
-10 year warranty
-some serious muscle (read: Higher SPL-big time)

It probably won't stay long in my Listening Room....because nothing beats a SINGLE output tube per channel via the Sveltana SV83! Push Pull will always have some smearing....so it is not as transparent. But, if you need the power/and listen in a non-treated room above 76 to 82db SPL...then you need push pull. You have the best with Steve's design's with no negative feedback in push/pull.  I just have to have single tube in pentode run in triode = transparency that is not debatable....with musicality above all.

Now, back to the Moon W-5.3 SE. I will break it in with my reference cable and 3 different front ends....but ultimately, it needs to go out in the Living Room System, driven direct by either the: NAD M51, AA Gear or Anedio D2.....with my Polk SRS SDA 1.2 Speakers.  

However, as stated: I will be having the Mystery Amp in for 30 days some time next year....and willing to pay the to & from freight + restocking fee....if need be.  I hope it gets to stay?! I certainly will have the 3 front ends, SE84CS, CKC, Moon W-5.3 SE & Kimber Select to compare to and with it..... .

I will comment on the Parker's later....got to go.  -Stone
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« Last Edit: 09/25/13 at 18:43:30 by stone_of_tone »  

Sony as Transport
Illuminati D-60
Audio Alchemy DTI-Pro
Audio Magic Mystic Reference I2S
Audio Alchemy DDE 3.0
Kimber Select 1030
Zen Select #76
Kimber Select 3033
Polk Audio LS-90
Tri-config/TipToes & Vibropods underneath Speakers
360 degree Rm Treats
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stone_of_tone
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Re: NAD M51 Direct Digital DAC
Reply #55 - 09/25/13 at 19:01:44
 
I came home early today to cut the grass. While waiting for the grass to dry, I decided to spend some time A-B-A-in' the M51 against my AA front end.
I have used the M51 eight days straight and have 32 to 36 listening hrs on it and about 45 total playing. I DVR all my HBO & TV shows....allows me more time for Music.

I like my AA gear better. Their is more aire and timbre in the high's, especially with Alto & Soprano Saxophones. The overall presentation is just more musical. By comparison, the M51 sounds closer to (but better than) the PWT/PWDII PS Audio combo. ....good imaging....but synthetic sounding. Of course you need to make the comparison to hear the difference....and that is what I just did.

You could argue it needs more burn in time. I don't think so...for digital, 45 hours and counting is good (I put 80 hrs on the PWT/PWD II). Or, I am accustomed to the AA Gear? NO, I can tell blind folded, the name of at least 15 to 20 Saxophonists within 3 notes. Once again...Tone/Timbre is everything...and it is better on my AA gear, with better sound staging as well.  

Good news, tomorrow both my Anedio D2 & Moon W-5.3 SE come. I will put the 5.3 SE out in in the He-Man Rig/Living Room System for burn in. The Anedio D2 gets hooked up for the next week in the Listening Room to hit the 40 hour mark and then I will commence with an A-B-C continuation of all three DAC front ends (in the Listening Room/keeping all things equal-as I have done/except the DAC rotation).   -S

Off, to jump on my Cub Cadet! To nice to be inside right now....... .
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« Last Edit: 09/25/13 at 19:39:58 by stone_of_tone »  

Sony as Transport
Illuminati D-60
Audio Alchemy DTI-Pro
Audio Magic Mystic Reference I2S
Audio Alchemy DDE 3.0
Kimber Select 1030
Zen Select #76
Kimber Select 3033
Polk Audio LS-90
Tri-config/TipToes & Vibropods underneath Speakers
360 degree Rm Treats
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will
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Re: NAD M51 Direct Digital DAC
Reply #56 - 09/25/13 at 19:37:59
 
Thanks for keeping us up Stone.

I don't think you can categorize digital component burnin that broadly. I think any component's burn in time is dependent on the electronics present. Especially things like transformers and caps. Then look at the range of burnin for different types of caps in a signal path...probably something like 100-1000 hrs. I think I could hear differences in even the amazing Jupiter caps for quite a while...at least 100 (probably more). But also everything else...just look at ICs, power cords and speaker wires...the wires organizing with he dielectrics in time, sometimes a long time.  Subtler in shorter runs of components, but I think present.

I was pretty sure my ZDAC took 200 hours to really show up. It had a lot of caps in it. Seems it would depend on the number of parts in a circuit, but even one cap requires a certain amount of play to really come out fully.

Anyway...may be relevant to run those new DACs while you are away if you can to get the hours up before making final determinations???

Wink

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« Last Edit: 09/25/13 at 20:38:36 by will »  

Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, modded Oppo 83, TORII MkIV, MorrowAudio SP7 cables, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PI Audio Uberbuss...PI, VHaudio DIY, Neotech DIY, Cryoparts DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab feet and tube dampers
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stone_of_tone
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Re: NAD M51 Direct Digital DAC
Reply #57 - 09/25/13 at 20:11:15
 
Nope, 80 hours on Digital is plenty in my 23 years experience.

Plus, being the owner of a real relevant outboard DAC for the past 19 years....I know what I am hearing with 45 hours on the M51.

Orangecrush, your reply #13 is in agreement with me....with my comparisons.   -S
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Sony as Transport
Illuminati D-60
Audio Alchemy DTI-Pro
Audio Magic Mystic Reference I2S
Audio Alchemy DDE 3.0
Kimber Select 1030
Zen Select #76
Kimber Select 3033
Polk Audio LS-90
Tri-config/TipToes & Vibropods underneath Speakers
360 degree Rm Treats
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beowulf
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Re: NAD M51 Direct Digital DAC
Reply #58 - 09/25/13 at 20:50:51
 
Ok, so does that mean the NAD may eventually go back if the Anedio D2 comes closer to the sound your looking for with the AA gear as your set standard?
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Lon
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Re: NAD M51 Direct Digital DAC
Reply #59 - 09/25/13 at 20:59:50
 
I fall more in the camp of Will in this instance I think. I believe digital in particular takes a lot of time to bloom. My PWT and PWD Mk II duo took hundreds of hours to really be what they can be, they're very different 380 hours in than 80 hours in. My Denon 100th Anniversary players have taken hundreds of hours to really shine.

Anyway, I'm glad you're happy, and we're all different. For example, if you did not get enough 'liveliness" out of the PS Audio Duo, then your taste is not mine, as I tame the liveliness of mine down a tad, and also find it anything but synthetic sounding.

In the NAD you have a tool that can take you into new format territory, I think you'll really get gobs of enjoyment out of it. And how amazing to have that AA gear all these years!
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+(2),Torii Mk III, PS Audio PWT+PWD MkII,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DBP-A100, Denon DCD-A100, Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable IC: Evo and UL, Mapleshade:Double Heiix Samsonv2+v3 and 4"platforms,Herbie's IsoCups+Tendft
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