Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
Decware Audio Forums
12/14/17 at 06:17:03 





 



Pages: 1 2 3 4 5
Send Topic Print
New Torii MKIV (Read 35496 times)
Dominick
Seasoned Member
****


Still like that old
time Rock and Roll!!

Posts: 140
Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #50 - 08/27/13 at 04:21:34
 
Steve....thank you!!  I did not realize that I was able to do that.  AWESOME!!.This is one of the many reasons why Decware sets themselves apart from the rest.

I have to say that my new ZStage put life into my music. It not only made me realize just how good the Decware product line is, but how Solid State just sucks!!
Back to top
 
 

Decware ERR's [Bubinga Wood], Zstage [with Beeswax caps], Zbox, Velodyne dual firing sub, Yamaha THX SS A/V Receiver
  IP Logged
dalerf
Verified Member
**




Posts: 13
Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #51 - 08/27/13 at 14:31:12
 
This will be my first valve amp, waited, saved and hopefully picked one that I will love, my workmates wen't the other way! Chinese, one is going back to solid state amp, can't get any volume from his speakers (I know, he needs more sensitive) he is running old Wharfdales, the other said he has lost his bass!!!  I really hope this Decware amp will help them see the error in their ways. Already one has had to replace 4 tubes, running way to hot, had to get IT person to adjust so it runs cooler, no way would I be putting my NOS 1960's valves in something like that. They are so jealous of my Decware Mono Preamp. Hopefully this setup will last me lifetime (I'm over 50) so not to long.
Love the internet site, lots of info. Grin
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Lin
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 295
Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #52 - 08/28/13 at 12:37:24
 
dalerf, what is a Decware Mono Preamp? Huh
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
dalerf
Verified Member
**




Posts: 13
Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #53 - 08/28/13 at 13:22:19
 
Sorry, Decware model ZP3 phonostage amp. Auditioned some speakers today, Focal Chorus 836v, Jamos, and Klipsch F30 (theatre speakers) as they don't stock RF series, using Vincent hybrid amp.
Even the salesperson was surprised how much more details the Klipsch speakers were, considering they were the cheaper then the other two. No brainer, if the F30 sounds like that, then the RF7's must be better, made my mind up, never heard horn speaker before, so much more detail it leaves the other two for dead, even more bass, and tight, the Jamos sounded a bit distorted, not clear bass, and the Klipsch only needed number 2 on the volume knob, and then turned up blew the roof off, clear as, no distortion. And this was listening to sterile CD's, imagine vinyl, yum Smiley
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Rotijon
Verified Member
**




Posts: 2
Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #54 - 08/28/13 at 15:44:55
 
Hey, i read somewhere from Mr Steve (I'm 21 and from an asian country thus the slightly abnormal Mr) using the MK4 with janszens.

I'm currently considering a pair of speakers to go along with the MK4 and im stuck between the janszens or decware hr-1/ dm945. I'm not from the states so auditioning them is not a choice.

Im hoping for some brief impressions from the owners of these lovely speakers.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 13010
Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #55 - 08/28/13 at 15:49:46
 
Of the two I own a pair of HR-1s and have another pair paid for and waiting to be built. If you can afford them, they'll likely be the last pair of speakers you need to buy for a system. I love the ERRs as well, and in some ways, with some material, i love the more "out of the box" or "box less" sound the ERRs can provide. But the HR-1s have both a conventional and an unconventional sound blended together seamlessly and they are so cohesive and dynamic that they seduce you right into the listening space and the music just flows out and around you. An immersive and sensory experience. The more I've listened to them the more I've loved them.
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZP3,ZTPRE,Torii MkIII,ZBIT,ZROCK2,Taboo MkIV;PS Audio:Soloist SE,DMP+DSD,P10,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs,Mapleshade:Dbl Helix+,SamsonV2+V3;CambrAudi CXU;Rega RP3,TTPSU,Groovetracer upgrades,Exact2;VooDoo Cremona +Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner,Oppo PM-1,Audeze LCD-2
  IP Logged
maddog07
Seasoned Member
****


seeker of truth

Posts: 475
Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #56 - 08/28/13 at 18:21:15
 
I have attended the Decware Zenfest and heard all their speakers, including the HR-1's.  They are very good and if I could only have "one" pair of full-range speakers, that were "reasonable" in size(high WAF) and that pair of speakers had to be from Decware, the HR-1's would probably be it.  

However... I must say I was quite smitten by the big, smooth, holographic sound of the DM945's at last years festival also.  945's driven by a Torii, Eva Cassidy played back thru this combination, will bring tears to your eyes!  Though I don't necessarily need a monitor sized speaker, I was so impressed by their sound, that I in fact have a pair reserved with my name on them, that I will be picking up at the Decfest in a little over a month.

Don't know if you're into DIY speaker building or not, but I'll share my recent, first experience at it.  I just completed my first DIY pair of speakers, that are a single, full-range, high efficiency driver type - I used Audio Nirvana Super Cast Frame 12 inch Alnico's in a 5.6 cu/ft box, ported(think huge cabinets).  Nothing special about the cabinet, other than I made it pretty rigid(about 100lbs each) and so that I could easily remove the front and rear baffles for tweaking and experimentation by loosening dozens of socket head cap screws.  The front is covered with about a 1/2 of felt, and then covered with faux leather.  Driven by my Decware Torii MK.III... I'm not sure I've ever heard "better" sound.  There is 100% no doubt that there is some serious synergy magic between the Torii and speakers with no passive xover parts in them.  The Torii "hints" at its abilities on every speaker I've connected to it, including my Martin Logan Vista's, but when strapped to a crossoverless type - hang on - you're going for an unbelievable ride.  These speakers have "far" exceeded my expectations and they are a pure joy to listen to.  
What a speaker like the HR-1 or the ERR's will do, that a conventional forward firing box speaker will not - is give you the increased "ambiance" of the omni-directional drivers.  And this exact "characteristic" of sound has motivated me to my next DIY speaker project, which is a hybrid Hawthorne Audio Trio, which is an open-baffle speaker.

don't know what you're budget is, or the size of your room, but I don't think you would be disappointed with 945's... even if you eventually decided to obtain something more ambitious in design and cost.  You'd probably never part with the 945's.  But if you're looking for the "one", "do it all", "last" speaker purchase - you might ought to go for the HR-1's.
Back to top
 
 

Decware Torii MK3, Wyred4Sound DAC2, Theta Digital Miles, Emotiva XMC-1, Emotiva XPA-5, Aesthetix Calypso, Wyred STP-SE, Martin Logan Vista, Audio Nirvana 12" Alnico's, PS Audio PW P5, Goertz, Kimber, Nordost and DIY wires, PSA pwr cords, Cary SLI-80, DM945's.....
  IP Logged
jsm71
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 134
Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #57 - 08/28/13 at 18:57:48
 
I own the JansZen zA2.1s.  These are very different from the HR-1s but wonderful.  This question was posted in the Torii MK IV thread, and I will be getting this amp as my first Decware amp.  At 25 watts/channel it will be able to drive the JansZens to good listening levels, but not drive the speaker to its limits.  I know this going in with open eyes.  The JansZens are NOT high effeciency speakers.  That has to be understood if you are also considering a TorII MK IV.

With that out of the way, I won't trade these speakers just because I can't maximize their output with the amp.  I've gradually moved from cone speakers (Thiels) to magnetic planars (Magnepan) to Electrostatics (JansZens), each time taking realism and transparency to a higher plane.  IMHO electrostatic transducers are without peers in this regard.  Even tinkering at a hobby level almost anyone can get the correct sound from stat panels.  Designing a great ESL with good frequency range and bringing it to market is the challenge.  

After the Maggies I didn't want another large dipole planar.  The JansZens are small (38" tall) and front firing, unlike virtually all other ESLs.  They are easy to move and place for good sound.  In this respect both these and the HR-1s are good speakers to live with.  The JansZens twin woofers are very responsive and lightweight. With a simple first order crossover at 500Hz they are easy to drive and blend extremely well with the two ESL panels that are also stacked vertically in the cabinet.  

I think their sound is amazing and I expect to get even more from them with the new Torii.  My high power solid state amp actually sounds wimpy in comparison to the Torii, especially in the bass.  I did get a chance to hear the combination using a friend's Torii III, which made the buy decision a no-brainer.  Due to their 87dB sensitivity rating the Mystery amp or the big Monos will likely drive them better yielding higher output levels, but I'm going to give the MK IV a full chance to win me over.  I don't listen at high levels.

The JansZens are a bit more money than the HR-1s, but David Janszen has discounts for buyers in new geographic markets which would level that difference enough to turn it into a choice of two different approaches.  I would call David or email him directly if you have questions.
Back to top
 
 

Decware ZMA, Cary SLP-98P preamp, JansZen zA2.1 speakers with JansZen speaker cables, Marantz TT 15S1 turntable, Lyra Delos MC with Bobs Devices SUT, Marantz SA8004 SACD/CD player, Morrow level 4 ICs, Decware and Shunyata PCs.
  IP Logged
Dominick
Seasoned Member
****


Still like that old
time Rock and Roll!!

Posts: 140
Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #58 - 08/30/13 at 13:56:59
 
Well I finally made the move to buy the New Torii MK IV after reading Steve's reply.  While some of the features on the MK III are going to be eliminated, I am sure that the MK IV will be just as kick ass!!  While I will not be able to compare one vs. the other, I really like that the MK IV will have blacker backgrounds.  Needless to say I am super excited!!!

One question....do any Torii owners have an optional mono RCA output for a sub?  If so, is it worth adding when my Velodyne sub already has a line level input and output (in addition to a mono sub input)?

If adding the mono output on the Torii will alter the signal path and change the sound signature of the unit, then I will not opt for the addition.  

Dom

Back to top
 
 

Decware ERR's [Bubinga Wood], Zstage [with Beeswax caps], Zbox, Velodyne dual firing sub, Yamaha THX SS A/V Receiver
  IP Logged
maddog07
Seasoned Member
****


seeker of truth

Posts: 475
Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #59 - 08/30/13 at 17:18:58
 
drive your Velodyne sub via the "speaker level" inputs, with an extra set of cables off the binding posts of the Torii to the Velodyne.  You can read a lot of "theory" on the www about why driving a sub with speaker level inputs is "the best" way sonically - so I won't delve into it here.. just google it and be prepared to get a headache reading about it.

Now, for a practical answer for you - I have driven two Velodyne Optimum 12 subs at the same time(stereo subs), via their speaker level inputs fed from my Torii III with great success with multiple pairs of speakers.  Obviously only one pair at a time, but what I'm saying, is I've used the subs driven via their speaker level inputs from my Torii with several different speakers.  It works, and it works well - no issue at all.
Back to top
 
 

Decware Torii MK3, Wyred4Sound DAC2, Theta Digital Miles, Emotiva XMC-1, Emotiva XPA-5, Aesthetix Calypso, Wyred STP-SE, Martin Logan Vista, Audio Nirvana 12" Alnico's, PS Audio PW P5, Goertz, Kimber, Nordost and DIY wires, PSA pwr cords, Cary SLI-80, DM945's.....
  IP Logged
Dominick
Seasoned Member
****


Still like that old
time Rock and Roll!!

Posts: 140
Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #60 - 08/30/13 at 20:47:46
 
Thanks Maddog07 for the insight...it's greatly appreciated. My powered Velodyne sub is a 10" front/12" down firing.  Has nice punch and is perfect for my application. The two missing pieces are a good DAC and efficient speakers..but that  will have to come at a later point.

D
Back to top
 
 

Decware ERR's [Bubinga Wood], Zstage [with Beeswax caps], Zbox, Velodyne dual firing sub, Yamaha THX SS A/V Receiver
  IP Logged
tgarden
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 439
Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #61 - 09/03/13 at 20:55:47
 
My Torii Mark III is back at the Decware shop, for the Mark IV upgrade.  

I have zero idea what it's going to cost (keeping my fingers crossed on that) or how long it's going to take, but I hope that Steve will be able to implement most of the improvements that the IV version offers.

I was going to send it back for the Jupiter cap upgrade anyway, and I waited and waited...now I'm glad I did wait a little longer.

Really looking forward to hearing what it sounds like!

Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 13010
Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #62 - 09/03/13 at 22:15:19
 
Well, if it helps (probably doesn't) I think it cost me about 600 to have my Mk III updated with Jupiter caps. A lot of money. And worth it big time.
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 09/03/13 at 22:15:41 by Lon »  

HR-1,ZP3,ZTPRE,Torii MkIII,ZBIT,ZROCK2,Taboo MkIV;PS Audio:Soloist SE,DMP+DSD,P10,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs,Mapleshade:Dbl Helix+,SamsonV2+V3;CambrAudi CXU;Rega RP3,TTPSU,Groovetracer upgrades,Exact2;VooDoo Cremona +Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner,Oppo PM-1,Audeze LCD-2
  IP Logged
tgarden
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 439
Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #63 - 09/03/13 at 22:28:35
 
Hi Lon,  I'm sure it'll be worth it.  Just a question of how much of the upgrades Steve decides to do.

There are definitely some wiring changes, from what I see in the photo.  Some if it involves removing existing stuff, vs. adding new things.

We'll see!
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
neilwill
Verified Member
**




Posts: 24
Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #64 - 09/03/13 at 22:39:58
 
Lon, are sure it was $600?  I had my MkIII upgraded to Jupiters for $300.
Back to top
 
 

Torii MkIII w/jupiter caps, Tonian Classic 8.1 S speakers (98db, 16 ohm), BMC Audio BDCD 1.1 cd player, Synergistic Research Powercell 6 SE, Synergistic Research Tesla Accelerator IC, Synergistic Research T2 SE & T3 SE power cords, Auditorium 23 speaker cable
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 13010
Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #65 - 09/03/13 at 22:43:15
 
You got a great price. Yes. It was returned for a minor repair as well (and to be honest I'm not sure that was done, as the problem persists, and would have been warranty anyway). Mine is one of the first ones made, so that may have been a factor, I don't know.

Let's put it this way, I'm pretty sure the total was over 600 dollars, I can't remember if it was with shipping or before shipping. Reasonably sure that's the cost. But worth it to me, the amp came back sounding significantly better.
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 09/04/13 at 01:17:25 by Lon »  

HR-1,ZP3,ZTPRE,Torii MkIII,ZBIT,ZROCK2,Taboo MkIV;PS Audio:Soloist SE,DMP+DSD,P10,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs,Mapleshade:Dbl Helix+,SamsonV2+V3;CambrAudi CXU;Rega RP3,TTPSU,Groovetracer upgrades,Exact2;VooDoo Cremona +Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner,Oppo PM-1,Audeze LCD-2
  IP Logged
tgarden
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 439
Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #66 - 09/04/13 at 01:29:32
 
Not that this helps out, but the Torii III webpage "currently" shows a price of $250.00 for the Jupiters when ordered at the time of purchase, and $500 for the Vcaps.

I sent mine back to Decware last year, and paid $500 plus shipping, for the Vcap upgrade.  The shipping + box charge adds up, too.  I triple boxed mine last week, and it cost $70 to FedEx it from Seattle to Decware.

Sorry to hear you're still having a problem with your Mark III, Lon.   I hope you can get it sorted out in the near future.

Mike.



Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
jsm71
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 134
Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #67 - 09/10/13 at 18:21:23
 
It seems that many of the people sitting on the fence have jumped on the order list, if for no other reason than to hedge their bets.  I was notified that my MK IV status is now "Shipping" which is pretty exciting.   Smiley

I looked at the full build list and of the 55 orders on the list, 23 are for the Torii MK IV.  Is this the usual response when Steve releases a new product, especially if ordering now saves some money?
Back to top
 
 

Decware ZMA, Cary SLP-98P preamp, JansZen zA2.1 speakers with JansZen speaker cables, Marantz TT 15S1 turntable, Lyra Delos MC with Bobs Devices SUT, Marantz SA8004 SACD/CD player, Morrow level 4 ICs, Decware and Shunyata PCs.
  IP Logged
tgarden
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 439
Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #68 - 09/10/13 at 18:41:45
 
People do like to take advantage when Decware offers a discount on a new product.  

It sounds like you may have one of the very first MK IV's made.

You should have a lot of fun!

Mike in Seattle area
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
jsm71
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 134
Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #69 - 09/10/13 at 19:21:19
 
I'm sure Steve is keeping the first fully complete unit around for himself, but I do believe I'm getting the first one shipped to customers.  Unlike many customers I won't be able to compare it to other models as this will be my first Decware piece.  I have heard the MK III a few times, but it wasn't mine.  I'll probably check in with everyone once I get it unpacked and working just to relay initial impressions.  

Scott in Cincinnati
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 09/10/13 at 19:22:26 by jsm71 »  

Decware ZMA, Cary SLP-98P preamp, JansZen zA2.1 speakers with JansZen speaker cables, Marantz TT 15S1 turntable, Lyra Delos MC with Bobs Devices SUT, Marantz SA8004 SACD/CD player, Morrow level 4 ICs, Decware and Shunyata PCs.
  IP Logged
tgarden
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 439
Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #70 - 09/10/13 at 19:37:58
 
I'm sure you'll like the amp.  Remember to give it at least the 25? hours initial burn-in time (5 hours on, 5 hours off) before you start forming any impressions.  Things will change.

And having owned a Torii I, II, and now a III (currently being upgraded to a IV by Steve),  my experience is that it takes a few hundred hours or more before the Torii's are "mostly" broken in.

Lastly, I would use the stock tubes for a least a couple hundred hours, to get a feel for the amp, if you are planning to try out other tubes later.

Hope this helps!
Mike
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 09/10/13 at 19:39:24 by tgarden »  
  IP Logged
jsm71
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 134
Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #71 - 09/10/13 at 20:11:57
 
Mike, your advice is consistent with other accounts I have read.  I'm not that much of a tinkerer and tend to trust the designer's choices on stock setups.  I will definately put a few hundred hours on the original tubes for sure.  If I like the sound of something I tend to treat it as not broken and I'm in the camp that believes different isn't always better.  

Controls are another story however.  In some respects I like that a couple of the controls have been taken away from the MK III.  Less to drive me crazy with trying to get right.  I have both bass and tweeter controls on my speakers and even after having them about a year I still toy with the tweeter setting because it is pretty sensitive.  I have already told myself to keep my hands off everything while things are breaking in.  

Scott
Back to top
 
 

Decware ZMA, Cary SLP-98P preamp, JansZen zA2.1 speakers with JansZen speaker cables, Marantz TT 15S1 turntable, Lyra Delos MC with Bobs Devices SUT, Marantz SA8004 SACD/CD player, Morrow level 4 ICs, Decware and Shunyata PCs.
  IP Logged
will
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 1832
Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #72 - 09/10/13 at 21:35:37
 
That is exciting Scott!

The new treble knob on the MkIV might be just the thing to fine-tune your speaker treble control. Looking forward to your impressions.

Have fun!
Back to top
 
 

PSA P5/modified Brickwall/Shunyata Defender/more; MacMini/Audirvana>Jitterbug/Regen> modified Gustard x20pro DAC; DIY + Pi Audio PCs; DIY ICs + USB; Decware-Jupiter CSP3, Torii MKIV, HR1-all modified; DIY Speaker Cables; feet-Madscientist, Archie's, isocups, DIY
  IP Logged
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 3105
Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #73 - 09/13/13 at 02:12:32
 
Wohoo! The first official picture of the TORII MK IV !!!



As you can see it is now compatible and boasting a happy blue glow with the optional KT66 output tubes - recommended highly!  These hand picked Tungsol KT66's are a $100 upgrade over the stock EL34's.

We are now shipping the first ones!  Sadly for us the web site has not been updated so it is still selling the Torii MK IV at the MK III price.  Put another way, we are shipping the MK IV to all MK III orders at no additional charge despite this new amp being more expensive.


A larger image is available here:

http://www.decware.com/newsite/images/TORIIMK41900.jpg

Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 09/14/13 at 04:02:22 by Steve Deckert »  
WWW   IP Logged
hdrider
Seasoned Member
****


On the path with
Decware.

Posts: 419
Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #74 - 09/13/13 at 02:27:59
 
What the heck, just ordered the Torii MKIV. I have been lusting after this amp for way too long. Now I have some stuff to sell I think....
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 09/16/13 at 02:33:52 by hdrider »  

Rachael, ZP3, ZMC 1, SE84CS, Oppo BDP-93, Sota Star TT w/ FR-64, Shinnon Red Moving coil, Omega 7XRS Mk 2 walnut, DeepOmega 8 sub, Morrow Audio PH3 and MA3 IC's, Stax Lambda Signature Pro & SRM-T1 tube amp, Gamma Electrostatic phones.
  IP Logged
neilwill
Verified Member
**




Posts: 24
Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #75 - 09/13/13 at 02:31:36
 
Any word on the cost of the upgrade?   Smiley
Back to top
 
 

Torii MkIII w/jupiter caps, Tonian Classic 8.1 S speakers (98db, 16 ohm), BMC Audio BDCD 1.1 cd player, Synergistic Research Powercell 6 SE, Synergistic Research Tesla Accelerator IC, Synergistic Research T2 SE & T3 SE power cords, Auditorium 23 speaker cable
  IP Logged
tgarden
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 439
Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #76 - 09/13/13 at 02:32:37
 
It looks sublime!  

Now that you've officially confirmed the optional use of the KT66's, I'm going to order a quad for my Mk III to Mk IV upgraded unit.

I wonder how the cryoed Genalex KT66's would work in this new amp?

Mike in Seattle area
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 09/13/13 at 02:35:08 by tgarden »  
  IP Logged
Rivieraranch
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 1438
Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #77 - 09/13/13 at 02:48:04
 
What about the Hazen modification? I don't think it would work with a KT66.
Back to top
 
 

TORII MK IV; ZSTAGE; HR-1 SPEAKERS; TECHNICS SL1200MK5 KAB MODDED TT; AH! NJOE TJOEB CDP; MARANTZ 2226B; SENNHEISER HD-580 headphones
55   IP Logged
Damien
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 116
Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #78 - 09/13/13 at 02:57:53
 
I bet I could heat my house with that thing! Nevertheless I want one BAD! But I'd have to sell a child to come up with three grand right now Wink
Back to top
 
 

Taboo, CSP2+, ZOB's, FRX2's
WWW k919596   IP Logged
JD
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 442
Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #79 - 09/13/13 at 03:20:56
 
and i thought i was content...beautiful work Steve.

JD
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
ryandigital
Verified Member
**




Posts: 16
Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #80 - 09/13/13 at 03:33:29
 
Whats the point of using KT66 instead of EL34?
would it get more power out of the amp?
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Dominick
Seasoned Member
****


Still like that old
time Rock and Roll!!

Posts: 140
Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #81 - 09/13/13 at 04:57:53
 
Steve,

With upgrading the to the KT66 tube, I am assuming that you lose the Hazen grid mod?  How would you compare the sound of the EL34 vs. the KT66 in the new Torii?

Since this will be my first Decware amp, I have no real reference point and would love to get your input.  While I will probably swap out and try the KT66 tubes at some point, your insight would be greatly appreciated.


Dom
Back to top
 
 

Decware ERR's [Bubinga Wood], Zstage [with Beeswax caps], Zbox, Velodyne dual firing sub, Yamaha THX SS A/V Receiver
  IP Logged
will
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 1832
Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #82 - 09/13/13 at 06:00:26
 
My MkIII is sounding better than ever, and this is part of the problem. If it ever went down for repairs, I would be hurting since I listen a lot every day and can't listen to my old amp after Decware.

I am afraid I fit fully into the Decware description: "therapy for audiophiles." So I got on the MkIV list the other day. After the Torii power through my HR-1s, the Rachel is just not enough for me with demanding music. It sounds amazing, but for my music collection and preferences needs more efficient speakers. After talking with Steve, the MkIV seemed the only logical conclusion for me for my second amp. Glad to have a look at the beauty! Thanks Steve. One Torii will go with my 944s and one with the HR-1s...How lucky am I!

I will leave it to Steve to tell us about the amp sound with the EL34s and KT66s, but for a little taste of the option....

late last week Steve said the MKIV sounds great with the KT66, hazen grid aside, and compared to the EL34s (also sounding great) each creates a signature of notably different character but both very good....both up to Steve's careful listening standards is what it sounded like to me. I did catch the "recommended highly" in reference to the hand picked Tungsol KT66s in Steve's post though! Sounds pretty cool to me!!!

I am really excited!
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 09/13/13 at 06:08:42 by will »  

PSA P5/modified Brickwall/Shunyata Defender/more; MacMini/Audirvana>Jitterbug/Regen> modified Gustard x20pro DAC; DIY + Pi Audio PCs; DIY ICs + USB; Decware-Jupiter CSP3, Torii MKIV, HR1-all modified; DIY Speaker Cables; feet-Madscientist, Archie's, isocups, DIY
  IP Logged
tgarden
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 439
Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #83 - 09/13/13 at 06:07:13
 
Will,  I'm glad to hear you got on the MK IV list.  I'm uncertain what your musical listening preferences are, but I'm sure this will end up being an incredible "all around' amp for you.  And...two tube types to tailor the sound.

Musical therapy to the max!

Mike
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Dominick
Seasoned Member
****


Still like that old
time Rock and Roll!!

Posts: 140
Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #84 - 09/13/13 at 06:19:36
 
Needless to say I am super excited myself with buying a new Torii.  I added the stepped attentuator, but something is telling me that I will be in line for the KT66 tubes...esp. with that blue luminous glow.  
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 09/13/13 at 06:22:11 by Dominick »  

Decware ERR's [Bubinga Wood], Zstage [with Beeswax caps], Zbox, Velodyne dual firing sub, Yamaha THX SS A/V Receiver
  IP Logged
will
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 1832
Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #85 - 09/13/13 at 06:51:42
 
Yes the luminous glow appeals to me too Dom! And I have loads of EL34s. Can't wait.

Thanks Mike. "Therapy to the max." Decware has made my life a lot better. Having played mostly acoustic instruments for many years, I always enjoyed decent audio gear, but until Decware it never fully "caught" me. With this stuff (and equally good compatible stuff) ....the sound is so natural and real for me that even though my body won't let me play anymore, listening at this level is a really good creative alternative to playing.

Mostly I listen to old school small jazz groups from old players...the usual suspects, with a huge comfort factor lately in Chet Baker and Gerry Mulligan, and some later jazz players, like Archie Schepp (at least his chill stuff) and Patricia Barber....specific "world music" players like Ayub Ogata, Susanna Baca, Virginia Rodregues, Marta Gomez, Zap Mama...several Bosa Nova old and new...Afro-cuban, still love some of the more heart felt Irish traditional....many of the less dense and mantra-like ECM musicians like Anouar Brahem...simpler classical music, mostly baroque and often solo or maybe viol de gamba and voices...simple choral music, like Trio Mediaeval...and I still love to hear Dylan, Young, Cohen and the like...also the occasional Morphine... some more electronic like Massive Attack, Gotan project, Suba, some Bugge Wesseltoft and EST....and on and on....lots of different stuff.

Once the bass material gets big and deep, and the big compressed dynamics kick in, there is nothing like a little power with the HR-1s! Toriis are so good!
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 09/13/13 at 07:07:04 by will »  

PSA P5/modified Brickwall/Shunyata Defender/more; MacMini/Audirvana>Jitterbug/Regen> modified Gustard x20pro DAC; DIY + Pi Audio PCs; DIY ICs + USB; Decware-Jupiter CSP3, Torii MKIV, HR1-all modified; DIY Speaker Cables; feet-Madscientist, Archie's, isocups, DIY
  IP Logged
CK722
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 105
Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #86 - 09/13/13 at 16:38:35
 
Does anyone know if the wait time to upgrade our MKIII is the same as buying the new model? I am tempted to sell my MKIII and use those funds toward the MKIV but the thought of being without an amp for months is scary! I guess that will also depend on the cost to upgrade.  
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 09/13/13 at 16:39:22 by CK722 »  
  IP Logged
maddog07
Seasoned Member
****


seeker of truth

Posts: 475
Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #87 - 09/13/13 at 17:11:54
 
I'm with RoyMercer... I really, really, don't want to put my MK.3 up for sale and get in the queue for a totally new MK.4 and be without a Torii for potentially "months" - disaster! Embarrassed

Steve & Co. don't keep us existing Torii MK.3 owners waiting - or leave us out in the cold!!
How do we get "in the queue" for the upgrade? and what do you think the turn around time will be?
Maybe we can flush more details out of you at Zenfest coming up, but do you have anything you can share with us now?

Can the Torii MK.4 use EL34 "Or" KT66's interchangeably?
Back to top
 
 

Decware Torii MK3, Wyred4Sound DAC2, Theta Digital Miles, Emotiva XMC-1, Emotiva XPA-5, Aesthetix Calypso, Wyred STP-SE, Martin Logan Vista, Audio Nirvana 12" Alnico's, PS Audio PW P5, Goertz, Kimber, Nordost and DIY wires, PSA pwr cords, Cary SLI-80, DM945's.....
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 13010
Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #88 - 09/13/13 at 17:35:56
 
I'd suggest emailing Sarah about the upgrade and the logistics. . . .
Back to top
 
 

HR-1,ZP3,ZTPRE,Torii MkIII,ZBIT,ZROCK2,Taboo MkIV;PS Audio:Soloist SE,DMP+DSD,P10,PowerBases,AC-12 pcs,Mapleshade:Dbl Helix+,SamsonV2+V3;CambrAudi CXU;Rega RP3,TTPSU,Groovetracer upgrades,Exact2;VooDoo Cremona +Amati,Iso-Pods;MD90-T SE tuner,Oppo PM-1,Audeze LCD-2
  IP Logged
will
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 1832
Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #89 - 09/13/13 at 17:45:55
 
maddog said: Quote:
Can the Torii MK.4 use EL34 "Or" KT66's interchangeably?


This is what I understand to be the case. Two amps for one! From Steve's post with pic: "These hand picked Tungsol KT66's are a $100 upgrade over the stock EL34's."
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 09/13/13 at 17:46:56 by will »  

PSA P5/modified Brickwall/Shunyata Defender/more; MacMini/Audirvana>Jitterbug/Regen> modified Gustard x20pro DAC; DIY + Pi Audio PCs; DIY ICs + USB; Decware-Jupiter CSP3, Torii MKIV, HR1-all modified; DIY Speaker Cables; feet-Madscientist, Archie's, isocups, DIY
  IP Logged
jsm71
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 134
Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #90 - 09/13/13 at 18:35:39
 
Like many I am hooked by the blue glow and the shapely bottles.  That aside, I'm very curious if the KT66 brings more output.  I'll be on the fringe of acceptability with the stock 25 watts.  If different tubes can urge even a couple of watts more out of the amp that would weigh stongly in me considering them.  I'll be running with the stock EL34s for sure right out of the gate.
Back to top
 
 

Decware ZMA, Cary SLP-98P preamp, JansZen zA2.1 speakers with JansZen speaker cables, Marantz TT 15S1 turntable, Lyra Delos MC with Bobs Devices SUT, Marantz SA8004 SACD/CD player, Morrow level 4 ICs, Decware and Shunyata PCs.
  IP Logged
busterfree
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 251
Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #91 - 09/13/13 at 18:38:16
 
Yes. Call Decware...In my experience, repairs and upgrades are handled differently.

I have experienced a quick turnaround when upgrading my SE84C+ and Mini Torii.
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 09/13/13 at 18:38:51 by busterfree »  

Decware ZTPRE, ZBIT, CSP3, SE84UFO, & SE84UFO2
  IP Logged
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 3105
Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #92 - 09/13/13 at 20:31:28
 

Quote:
Any word on the cost of the upgrade?

We're doing one now and it looks like the bill is going to be around $700 not including tubes.  That will turn a MK III into a MK IV with cryo treated beeswax caps.


Quote:
What about the Hazen modification? I don't think it would work with a KT66.

The Hazen Grid Mod will have no effect on this tube.

Quote:
With upgrading the to the KT66 tube, I am assuming that you lose the Hazen grid mod?  How would you compare the sound of the EL34 vs. the KT66 in the new Torii?


The Hazen Grid Mod takes advantage of the internal construction of the EL34 to make it a better sounding tube, and it does.  With the circuit changes in the new MK IV, the KT66 is a better fit resulting in an even better sound.  The presentation is far better balanced and you get the full range of the volume control without any clipping.  Due to the increased voltage swing we introduced into the phase inverter and input stage, EL34's have more gain than they did in the MK III.  The result is an amp that is at full power with the volume control barely hitting the half way mark...  it can be a little aggressive.

Quote:
Does anyone know if the wait time to upgrade our MKIII is the same as buying the new model? I am tempted to sell my MKIII and use those funds toward the MKIV but the thought of being without an amp for months is scary! I guess that will also depend on the cost to upgrade.


Upgrades are typically a two week turnaround, however, if everyone with a MK III sent them in right away, the wait could certainly grow.

Quote:
Can the Torii MK.4 use EL34 "Or" KT66's interchangeably?


Yes, it can ship with either one.  The TORII MK IV has a new toggle switch that allows you to adjust the bass to perfection with either tube.

Quote:
This is what I understand to be the case. Two amps for one! From Steve's post with pic: "These hand picked Tungsol KT66's are a $100 upgrade over the stock EL34's."


This is absolutely correct, the MKIV is a completely different amplifier with either set of tubes and it would be like owning two different amps.

Quote:
Like many I am hooked by the blue glow and the shapely bottles.  That aside, I'm very curious if the KT66 brings more output.  I'll be on the fringe of acceptability with the stock 25 watts.  If different tubes can urge even a couple of watts more out of the amp that would weigh stongly in me considering them.  I'll be running with the stock EL34s for sure right out of the gate.


The KT66 brings a few more watts to the table, yes.  It also has less gain, meaning you have to turn the volume control to a higher position to reach the same loudness as you do with EL34.



Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 3105
Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #93 - 09/13/13 at 20:40:17
 
Some more pics of the changes...



The white knobs are the redone treble control. The effect of this control is so subtle now, that MKIII owners will think it doesn't even work.  It makes a small adjustment from about 8 kHz on up.

The silver toggle switch next to it is the new reconstructive feedback switch. Probably the coolest feature on the whole amp. Reduces the phase angle and dramatically improves presence. It's on a switch because it's success or failure is based on the speaker load. Show it the wrong load (especially with EL34's) and it will squeal like a stuck pig (osculate) For example, plugging a pair of headphones into the speaker jacks instead of speakers with this switch on would cause the osculation. Turning the switch off would stop the osculation.  

The switch directly centered behind the binding posts is the impedance switch for the speakers.  Same as always, can be configured to 4 and 8 ohm or 8 and 16 ohm speakers.

 
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 09/13/13 at 20:41:10 by Steve Deckert »  
WWW   IP Logged
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 3105
Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #94 - 09/13/13 at 20:44:50
 
Front view changes:



The toggle switches to the left and right of the volume control are the bass switches the control how tight the bass is on a given set of speakers with either set of output tubes.  On the MK III amps there will only be one switch that does both channels at the same time instead of two as shown here.

The center toggle switch between the small OC2 tubes is now the input switch allowing you to select between the two sources.

Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
jsm71
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 134
Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #95 - 09/13/13 at 20:53:31
 
Quote:
Due to the increased voltage swing we introduced into the phase inverter and input stage, EL34's have more gain than they did in the MK III.  The result is an amp that is at full power with the volume control barely hitting the half way mark...  it can be a little aggressive.


Does this imply that the EL34s are being run hard with more heat?  Also, does this mean that running without a preamp would make volume adjustments a little more touchy?

Quote:
The KT66 brings a few more watts to the table, yes.  It also has less gain, meaning you have to turn the volume control to a higher position to reach the same loudness as you do with EL34.


Care to estimate how many more watts?  Which tube works harder in this amp?  Are there any implications to one lasting longer than the other due to the way it operates?  
Back to top
 
 

Decware ZMA, Cary SLP-98P preamp, JansZen zA2.1 speakers with JansZen speaker cables, Marantz TT 15S1 turntable, Lyra Delos MC with Bobs Devices SUT, Marantz SA8004 SACD/CD player, Morrow level 4 ICs, Decware and Shunyata PCs.
  IP Logged
Steve Deckert
Administrator
*****


If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

Posts: 3105
Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #96 - 09/13/13 at 21:21:46
 
Neither tube is being run hard in the amp.  The EL34 is an easier tube to drive, that is why it develops more gain than the KT66.   The added gain of the EL34 would make using a preamp touchier than it was on a MK III, meaning smaller adjustments to the volume control to effect the same changes to level as before.

Back to top
 
 
WWW   IP Logged
tgarden
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 439
Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #97 - 09/13/13 at 21:25:23
 
I'm glad to hear the first MK III to MK IV conversion is under way.

The price of around $700 to upgrade from a MK III to a "two amps in one" MK IV, sounds very fair.  No complaints from me!

Mike in Seattle area

Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
neilwill
Verified Member
**




Posts: 24
Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #98 - 09/13/13 at 22:13:59
 
If you just got your MKIII upgraded to Jupiter caps will this lower the total cost of upgrade for your amp?
Back to top
 
 

Torii MkIII w/jupiter caps, Tonian Classic 8.1 S speakers (98db, 16 ohm), BMC Audio BDCD 1.1 cd player, Synergistic Research Powercell 6 SE, Synergistic Research Tesla Accelerator IC, Synergistic Research T2 SE & T3 SE power cords, Auditorium 23 speaker cable
  IP Logged
kana813
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 142
Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #99 - 09/14/13 at 01:55:54
 
"The chassis can now accommodate either a single volume control (as shown) or a volume control for each channel"

How do I order this option and KT-66 tubes for the MKIV on the currenet MKIII order form?
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5
Send Topic Print