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New Torii MKIV (Read 35869 times)
maddog07
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New Torii MKIV
08/21/13 at 19:18:48
 
OK... that cat's out of the bag, Steve has announced there is an impending debut of the Torii MK-IV.  So who knows anything about it?  
Anything.. its cosmetics, what's changing, etc.

Inquiring minds want/need to know.!!!
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Greg12
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #1 - 08/21/13 at 19:40:31
 
Just saw that email too.  It says there will be a sound improvement over the III,  hopefully most of the improvement will be due to the Jupitor caps which i paid extra for on my III.  If that's the case, then I'm set.  (tho something tells me there will be more to it than that.)

Greg
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maddog07
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #2 - 08/21/13 at 20:02:58
 
yeah... me too, I suspect there are more "changes" than the caps.

my Torii was built before Jupiter caps became a part of the equation...
I was hoping the next gen Torii... would have "meters" on the front, controls on the front, and the connections on the back - too.

I sent Steve a note... begging for clarification and details... and that I started a thread on the subject.  Maybe he will throw us a bone here..
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jsm71
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #3 - 08/21/13 at 21:25:40
 
I have been on the build waiting list for a couple of months now for the Torii MKIII and just noticed that my order was changed to the MK IV as was all the others on the list.

I did have a conversation with Steve early on and he indicated that I would be getting the upcoming changes.  The only two he spoke of at that time were the Jupiter caps as standard and changing over to the black top plate.  I was pretty happy about both of those so I didn't ask if there was going to be anything else.  Hopefully Steve will chime in.  

I also haven't seen any change in status for my order when many after me are almost to shipping on other products.  I know the other products may be less involved to build but the Torii orders seem to have been stalled somewhat.  Maybe that means more changes are in line?   Is this part of the "fun"?  
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maddog07
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #4 - 08/21/13 at 23:12:41
 
Steve responded to my inquiry about the MK.IV just a bit ago.  He said, "there will be more info and pics in about a week if not sooner"... so stay tuned.

also he said the MK.III will be upgradeable to MK.IV... so us current Torii owners won't get left holding the bag on our obsolete amps!   Grin
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Lon
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #5 - 08/21/13 at 23:55:02
 
Good news about the "upgradable" (though I bet my earliest one is not upgradable). Bot my Toriis have the Jupiters, so I may not need any upgrading.
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Greg12
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #6 - 08/22/13 at 00:20:23
 
FYI For anyone else looking at this thread that is not on the Decware mailing list,  Steve said the new Mark IV  will cost several hundred $$ more than the III,  but if you get your order in before he updates the site in a week or two, he'll let you have the IV for the  current MKIII's price. Pretty cool.

Greg
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« Last Edit: 08/22/13 at 00:21:52 by Greg12 »  

Torii MkIII with Jupiter caps, ZP3 with Jupiter caps, DM947 Monoliths, Oppo 105, Pro-ject Rm-5.1 Se TT. Hana SH Shibata MC Cartridge 2.0mV
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Steve Deckert
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #7 - 08/22/13 at 22:20:15
 
Here is the Torii MK III



Here is a Torii MK IV...



Here is what I have done in the Torii MK IV.  One side as pictured is completed and the amp is waiting for me to finish the other side.  As you can see I've improved the layout a bit.  Here are the changes made so far:

  • I have deleted the bias switch for the output tubes.  It never did much in the MK III and is not needed in the MK IV.
  • I have increased the gain of the input stage by about 20% giving the amp more slam and tighter control
  • I have eliminated the adjustable bass dampening control, no longer need it with problematic speakers due to the next change.
  • In place of the adjustable bass dampening control I have created a re-constructive feedback circuit that improves clarity, detail, and definition at all frequencies.  It is on a switch so that you can use it or not use it.  (everyone will likely use it)   This mod replaces the bypass caps that were on the cathode of the input stage.  Those caps eliminated the naturally occurring local negative feedback in that tube.  Instead of a bypass cap, I use the output transformer in series with a couple networks that float the output stage above ground slightly.  The result is less phase angle distortion resulting in better transparency.  This was an accident, that turned into another discovery.  It's one of the cooler things that's happened in the past couple years and it will be fun to here peoples impressions of it as they get their MK III's updated.
  • The input switch is now centered behind the volume control.  
  • The power switches are now rocker switches vs. toggle switches.
  • The chassis can now accommodate either a single volume control (as shown) or a volume control for each channel.
  • The chassis is now steel with our new textured black powder coat finish and weighs 6 pounds more than the aluminum it replaced.
  • Beeswax caps are now standard.
  • The treble control has been redone and now makes only a very slight adjustment to the treble above 5K, whereas before it was capable of cutting all the way down to 500 Hz.  The result is a bit more air.


And that's about it.  

Steve
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Lon
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #8 - 08/22/13 at 22:36:54
 
Wow, some interesting changes and some great innovations. It's going to be a killer diller and a seller!

Congrats.
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will
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #9 - 08/22/13 at 22:39:44
 
Thanks for the update Steve! Also new power supply configuration???
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« Last Edit: 08/22/13 at 22:40:39 by will »  

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Rivieraranch
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #10 - 08/22/13 at 23:52:11
 
What is the price?
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Lon
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #11 - 08/22/13 at 23:59:23
 
iF you order before the website is updated (soon I would suppose) it's the same price as the current III. Steve says he will honor that price until he launches the new web page. With the new page will be a new price. . .a larger price.
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Lonely Raven
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #12 - 08/23/13 at 01:17:59
 

Grrr, I'd have to sell several of my other "toys" to fund this, and I don't think I want to dent one hobby to fund this hobby. Time to start saving!
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tgarden
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #13 - 08/23/13 at 05:44:50
 
I'm also very glad to hear that the Mk III is upgradeable to the new MkIV.

As soon as Steve says it's ok, I'm sending my MK III in for the upgrade.
I wonder if the aluminum chassis will be swapped for the new steel one, as part of the package?

Not looking forward to hearing what the upgrade costs, but I'm sure it's worth it:)

Mike

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Lord Soth
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #14 - 08/23/13 at 05:51:31
 
Dear fellow Decware fans,

Always had my eye on the MK 3.
This is the "push" I needed.

I'm finally placing an order for the TORII MK 4! Smiley

Dear Steve,

If you are reading this, do I have to order the Beeswax caps as an extra $$$ option for the MK 3?

Or will the upgrade be done automatically, i.e. for free?

Likewise for the stepped Attenuator option?

Do I have to check every upgrade option on the MK3 order page?
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« Last Edit: 08/23/13 at 06:02:01 by Lord Soth »  
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Lon
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #15 - 08/23/13 at 11:12:39
 
LS,

Here is what Steve sent in his email that is pertinent:



The LIST so far - Price Increases
OK -  Here's how it works.   Whenever we come out with a new product, those people on our build sheet with standing orders are automatically upgraded to the new model at the old model price.

I am obligated to charge what 's listed on the web site, so until I have time to update the site, you can buy these new more expensive models at the current prices.

We are now finishing the CSP3.  This new model will likely cost a few hundred bucks more.  You can order a CSP2+ from the site now, and lock yourself into the old price.  We are still running over 8 weeks, so you'll have plenty of time to discover the options it now comes with and modify your order if need be.  Remember, we don't charge until the units are ready to ship, so you have some time to arrange funds.

The TORII MK III is days away from becoming the TORII MK IV  and this is really big, because we've figured out how to make it sound even better if you can believe that!  The new amp will come standard with beeswax caps and there will be a significant price increase.  Get your TORII ordered now before I update the web site and save yourself a few hundred bucks minimum.

The Super Zen has been a great success, but became as good or better than the Zen Select, which was designed to be and upgraded version of the Regular Zen Triode.  So we have also updated that with meters, and many internal improvements so that it is indeed a step up from the SuperZen as it should be.  Again, if you want one, order the SE84ZS and you'll automatically be upgraded to the new model without the couple hundred dollar price increase!

The main thing is to get your orders in as soon as possible before I get the site pages updated.  This will secure your position in the list and lock you in at the old price.   I can answer questions about the changes and options by e-mail or phone once your order is placed.  We can easily tweak your order to achieve the configurations you want so no need to panic about options.  I'll work with each one of you individually.
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Lord Soth
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #16 - 08/23/13 at 14:02:58
 
Hi Lon,

Thanks.

I'll just "lock in" an order for the Torii Mk 3/4 and discuss the options later with Decware.

Now the long wait begins.....

Will likely pair up the amp with some new Zu speakers too. Smiley
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Lon
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #17 - 08/23/13 at 14:49:31
 
Probably great sound.

I'm going to hang tight with the two Mk IIIs I have. . . or try to. Smiley
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Steve Deckert
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #18 - 08/23/13 at 17:51:49
 
The beeswax caps will come standard on the new Torii MK IV so you do not have to check that box on the MK III order page.

Stepped attenuator(s) will be an option on the MK IV just like on the MK III, so if you want that, you'll have to check the box.

The difference in price between the stock MK III and the stock MK IV will probably be around five hundred bucks, so right now that's what you'll be getting free.



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tgarden
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #19 - 08/23/13 at 18:40:23
 
Steve,  Many thanks for your continued work on the Torii series!  It's so nice to see a great amp being brought to an even higher level.

I just spoke with Sarah (happy birthday!) who talked to you about sending my Torrii III in, to be upgraded to the Torii IV.  I'll send it in Sept. 3, the day after Labor Day.

I look forward to the big upgrade!

Thanks again for your great work on Decware amps and speakers. Your equipment has made the quality of my life, much better.  

Mike

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Lord Soth
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #20 - 08/24/13 at 01:20:46
 
Dear Steve,

Thanks for the clarification on ordering the Torii MK 3/4.

Hope you are much better now.

I was just listening to music on my CSP2+ (with Beyer T1) way way past midnight.
I just could not pry myself from the music.

If I were listening to the new improved CSP3, I might probably be put into a trance for the rest of my life! Smiley

Thanks for making such great audiophile pieces of art affordable to the "average joe" like me.

I look forward to the same if not greater musical bliss on external speakers.
I'd think I'll put the rest of my household into a musical trance when the Torii MK 4 arrives. Wink

Cheers!
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #21 - 08/24/13 at 16:25:49
 
Lord Soth,  What Zu Audio speakers have you listened to and with which Decware Amps?  Please give your impressions. I recently bought a Taboo MK III and a pair of Audeze cans.  I ordered a pair of Zu "Souls" to pair with the Taboo plus the new CSP 3 ordered the day Steve sent his letter. I have to admit I am very close to ordering a Torii MK IV too.....what made you pull the trigger?  Thanks, Mark.
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Longbowbbs
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #22 - 08/24/13 at 22:26:34
 
So, Steve...How about a headphone jack option for the new MK IV?
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Lonely Raven
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #23 - 08/24/13 at 23:46:07
 

Anyone know if Steve charges the credit card right away, or when the amp ships?

What's the wait time typically for these amps?

I'm trying to get a feel for how quickly I'd need to get the money up for one...the more I listen to my vintage Zen amp and MG944, the more I want a little something with more Oomph!

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will
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #24 - 08/25/13 at 00:08:01
 
LR...Check Lon's post above quoting Steve's email.

From Steve:

"We are still running over 8 weeks, so you'll have plenty of time to discover the options it now comes with and modify your order if need be.  Remember, we don't charge until the units are ready to ship, so you have some time to arrange funds."
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« Last Edit: 08/25/13 at 00:08:42 by will »  

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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #25 - 08/25/13 at 01:14:57
 
This is great news! I'm definitely getting my III upgraded when available.  Anyone know how much the upgrade from III to IV would cost if you already have the jupiter cap upgrade?
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tgarden
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #26 - 08/25/13 at 01:39:10
 
Neilwill,  Steve does not have a price yet on the upgrade.

I'll be sending my V-capped Mark III to Decware in a week or two, for the Mark IV upgrade, and I'll post as soon as I find anything on the cost.

Mike
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #27 - 08/25/13 at 03:47:16
 
I don't know what the price or structure will be for the upgrade to a MK IV yet.  I still have to decide how much I want to change on a MK III.  I'll likely separate the mod into two or three parts.  That's all I know right now.
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #28 - 08/25/13 at 04:05:08
 
Steve,  Thanks for the info!

Mike
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TESTING
Reply #29 - 08/25/13 at 04:17:37
 


TESTING THE MK IV

I couldn't wipe a dirty little grin off my face tonight as I walked out of the listening room while the Torii MK IV simply kicked the crap out of a MK III.  

Sadly this was not the case 24 hours ago after my second listen, (the first one fooled me).  There was an incredible magic that the MK III had never even grazed before and now it might have to go away!  There were issues with the bass and with it's usable power that would have killed it if not for spending all day in bed meditating on all the possible solutions.  The solutions worked and tonight was all about tuning the values to achieve the desired result.  Basically, solder, lift 40 lbs amp, hook up, play, unhook, lift, solder and repeat... 42 times so far.  Remember this is actual listening room testing, not initial tuning in the bench rails.

Anyway, when you hear this mod you'll understand that no other amplifier in the world could ever sound like it, and I was desperate not to let that go, despite being in taboo territory once again with the circuit design.  The experience was kind of like finding a chunk of gold in the ground that was too big to lift out.... too good to be true.

And since the MK III was getting bested by the Mystery Amp, this has the Mystery amp pretty nervous... well see what happens in the next amp wars.
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #30 - 08/25/13 at 04:31:18
 
Very Exciting Steve. Looking forward to more reports!
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #31 - 08/25/13 at 05:06:21
 
Steve, It sounds great!  

You can do as many of the Mk. IV mods on my Mk. III, as you feel you are able to.  
I've got no problem with my amp being a guinea pig/test subject.

Sure glad to see you keep finding new ways to improve the Torii.
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #32 - 08/25/13 at 09:55:22
 
Dear Mark58,

I intend to pair up the Torii MK4 with a pair of Zu Soul Superflys (16 Ohms).

Nope, I have not heard this actual combination per se (i.e. with the Torii MK3).
What I have read from the Zu website is that these speakers were designed to be paired with tube amps, i.e. the traditional low power and high Ohm type. So in theory, it should work. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Wink

I am simply relying on the GOOD reputation of both Zu and Decware.
Will post impressions a couple of months from now when both the amp and the new speakers arrive.

As for what made me finally pull the trigger on the Torii MK4?
Some months ago, I was ready to purchase the MK3.

That is because I came across numerous posts from owners of the MK3 stating that the sonics bested anything they have heard before, and those are $$$$ rich audiophiles who play with uber expensive low power WE300B SET amps.

Now given what a progressive company Decware is, I knew that it was a matter of time before the MK4 model would turn up.

I sure that an MK5 ... 6 and so on will eventually be produced.

But in the meantime, I trust Steve / Decware's audiophile ear.
So anything that sounds as good or even better than an MK3 is a no-brainer, i.e. "must buy" audiophile item for me. Smiley
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« Last Edit: 08/25/13 at 14:30:19 by Lord Soth »  
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #33 - 08/25/13 at 16:43:14
 
I've been on the build list now for the prior MKIII for about 9 weeks and I was getting concerned when it looked like there was no activity for any of the MKIII orders.  Having heard about Steve's accident and model change brings that into focus somewhat.  Waiting still sucks.  

The new look with the black chassis really does it for me and that change I really applaud.  Steve, given that I'm the highest on the build list for the MK IV does that mean that I will be getting the first one????   Smiley

Scott
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« Last Edit: 08/25/13 at 16:46:05 by jsm71 »  

Decware ZMA, Cary SLP-98P preamp, JansZen zA2.1 speakers with JansZen speaker cables, Marantz TT 15S1 turntable, Lyra Delos MC with Bobs Devices SUT, Marantz SA8004 SACD/CD player, Morrow level 4 ICs, Decware and Shunyata PCs.
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dalerf
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #34 - 08/25/13 at 17:26:59
 
I couldn't help myself, been thinking of one for months, so price rise and new model is enough for me to jump in. Only hope the Mystery amp doesn't make sad, thinking I've gone for the wrong amp. Volume shouldn't be a problem, I'm thinking of getting Klipsch RF-7 II, at 101dB sensivity the Torii MKIV should have no problems driving them to loud volume, just hope I get some nice bass from those 10" woofers Smiley
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Steve Deckert
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If the 1st watt
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Zu Loudspeakers with Decware Amps
Reply #35 - 08/25/13 at 18:16:03
 
The North American Sales Rep for Zu loudspeakers has been using Decware amps at the shows to demonstrate the Zu speaker line...  I have yet to run into a Zu owner who didn't like the paring.

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jsm71
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #36 - 08/25/13 at 18:17:05
 
Steve, thanks for the engineering upgrade notes and the pictures (keep those coming).  Will the MK IV still retain the basic design principles?:
All class A operation
Zero feedback
PP, but no ultra linear operation
SET sound as the goal
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Decware ZMA, Cary SLP-98P preamp, JansZen zA2.1 speakers with JansZen speaker cables, Marantz TT 15S1 turntable, Lyra Delos MC with Bobs Devices SUT, Marantz SA8004 SACD/CD player, Morrow level 4 ICs, Decware and Shunyata PCs.
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Steve Deckert
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If the 1st watt
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #37 - 08/25/13 at 18:17:45
 
JSM71,

Indeed, this is what the delay was about.  Monday I plan to give the go ahead to start production on the MK IV amps, so if you're the first one on the list of upcoming Torii builds, then I guess you'll be getting the first one!

-Steve
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jsm71
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #38 - 08/25/13 at 18:23:35
 
Thanks for clarifying my questions.  I'm pretty excited.  Please excuse me, I think I just pee'd my pants. Grin
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Decware ZMA, Cary SLP-98P preamp, JansZen zA2.1 speakers with JansZen speaker cables, Marantz TT 15S1 turntable, Lyra Delos MC with Bobs Devices SUT, Marantz SA8004 SACD/CD player, Morrow level 4 ICs, Decware and Shunyata PCs.
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Donnie
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #39 - 08/25/13 at 19:15:10
 
I'm starting to get "Amp Envy".
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Longbowbbs
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #40 - 08/25/13 at 19:27:56
 
Steve, can the Torii MK IV get a headphone jack?
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Upgradeus Interruptus
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http://www.head-fi.org/t/654644/a-visit-to-decware
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Rivieraranch
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #41 - 08/25/13 at 22:14:02
 
Maybe they can make one with a red base for Donnie.
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TORII MK IV; ZSTAGE; HR-1 SPEAKERS; TECHNICS SL1200MK5 KAB MODDED TT; AH! NJOE TJOEB CDP; MARANTZ 2226B; SENNHEISER HD-580 headphones
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Longbowbbs
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #42 - 08/25/13 at 23:05:03
 
How about a red top?
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Upgradeus Interruptus
MacMini,W4S DAC-2 DSDse,Denon DVD-5900, Decware CSP2+, Taboo MK III, Sennheiser HD800's, DM945's, DefTech Supercube 3
http://www.head-fi.org/t/654644/a-visit-to-decware
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Donnie
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #43 - 08/25/13 at 23:22:58
 
A red base or top is a rattlecan away!
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Rivieraranch
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #44 - 08/26/13 at 00:18:57
 
I've never seen red wrinkle paint.
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TORII MK IV; ZSTAGE; HR-1 SPEAKERS; TECHNICS SL1200MK5 KAB MODDED TT; AH! NJOE TJOEB CDP; MARANTZ 2226B; SENNHEISER HD-580 headphones
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Dominick
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #45 - 08/26/13 at 00:55:18
 
I was hoping to see the final specs and pricing on the Mystery amp first.  I was holding out on the Torii MK IV until next year, but with the price increase and upgrades, I may just have to pull the trigger for the Torii before the website is updated.  Talk about decisions.  

Hey Steve....is there any way you can hold off on the price increase until after Decfest when you debut the Mystery Amp.  That way guys like myself who are teetering between the Torii and the Mystery Amp will get a better idea of what we will want to buy.

A recent conflict is preventing me from coming, but I will be tuning in online.  

Thanks,
Dom
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« Last Edit: 08/26/13 at 12:19:47 by Dominick »  

Decware ERR's [Bubinga Wood], Zstage [with Beeswax caps], Zbox, Velodyne dual firing sub, Yamaha THX SS A/V Receiver
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maddog07
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #46 - 08/26/13 at 20:08:49
 
Steve...

please let us know when you will be accepting MK.III's for the IV upgrade.  And also the details of the update, ie; time, cost, how do we get in the queue, etc.
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Decware Torii MK3, Wyred4Sound DAC2, Theta Digital Miles, Emotiva XMC-1, Emotiva XPA-5, Aesthetix Calypso, Wyred STP-SE, Martin Logan Vista, Audio Nirvana 12" Alnico's, PS Audio PW P5, Goertz, Kimber, Nordost and DIY wires, PSA pwr cords, Cary SLI-80, DM945's.....
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Steve Deckert
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If the 1st watt
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #47 - 08/27/13 at 01:31:40
 
Quote:
was hoping to see the final specs and pricing on the Mystery amp first.  I was holding out on the Torii MK IV until next year, but with the price increase and upgrades, I may just have to pull the trigger for the Torii before the website is updated.  Talk about decisions.  

Hey Steve....is there any way you can hold off on the price increase until after Decfest when you debut the Mystery Amp.  That way guys like myself who are teetering between the Torii and the Mystery Amp will get a better idea of what we will want to buy.

A recent conflict is preventing me from coming, but I will be tuning in online.  

Thanks,
Dom


What you may not realize is that you can place your Torii Order now and secure the current price and your position in the list.  If you decide to change the order to the Mystery amp before your Torii is built, we'll keep your place in line and build the Mystery amp instead.    Alternately if you take delivery on the Torii and decide during the 30 day trial you would rather have the Mystery amp, we'll build you one and you can keep the Torii until the Mystery amp is delivered.

Steve
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Rivieraranch
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #48 - 08/27/13 at 01:38:34
 
Talk about working with the customer; this is unprecedented! Go, Steve!
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TORII MK IV; ZSTAGE; HR-1 SPEAKERS; TECHNICS SL1200MK5 KAB MODDED TT; AH! NJOE TJOEB CDP; MARANTZ 2226B; SENNHEISER HD-580 headphones
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maddog07
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #49 - 08/27/13 at 03:19:10
 
What you may not realize is that you can place your Torii Order now and secure the current price and your position in the list.  If you decide to change the order to the Mystery amp before your Torii is built, we'll keep your place in line and build the Mystery amp instead.    Alternately if you take delivery on the Torii and decide during the 30 day trial you would rather have the Mystery amp, we'll build you one and you can keep the Torii until the Mystery amp is delivered.

Does the "order queue" mentioned above apply to those with III's updating to 4's?
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Decware Torii MK3, Wyred4Sound DAC2, Theta Digital Miles, Emotiva XMC-1, Emotiva XPA-5, Aesthetix Calypso, Wyred STP-SE, Martin Logan Vista, Audio Nirvana 12" Alnico's, PS Audio PW P5, Goertz, Kimber, Nordost and DIY wires, PSA pwr cords, Cary SLI-80, DM945's.....
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