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New Torii MKIV (Read 27565 times)
SteveC
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #135 - 09/18/13 at 19:28:14
 
I have a Torii 3 and HDT's also. So I'm very interested in this as well.

This thread covered this too: http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1363627564

In a nutshell, (If I remember correctly) the torii pushes more power into higher impedance because it's a pentode.  A Zen Triode does not.  (per Steve at decfest'12)  This is why the torii has the treble cut,.. to counter this effect.

With the KT66 being a beam tetrode, (I know nothing more about them) since it's structurally different than a pentode, it's likely to behave differently than the el34.  (my random guess).  

From Steve's comment in the torii4 thread:
"The Hazen Grid Mod takes advantage of the internal construction of the EL34 to make it a better sounding tube, and it does.  With the circuit changes in the new MK IV, the KT66 is a better fit resulting in an even better sound.  The presentation is far better balanced and you get the full range of the volume control without any clipping." ...

And I infer from "far better balanced" means the KT66 behaves more "flat" with a single driver speaker.  this is all my speculation.

I'm very interested to hear the differences and talk to you guys.  see you in Peoria soon.
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Lord Soth
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #136 - 09/18/13 at 23:55:08
 
Dear fellow Audiophiles,

There will be an audio "Clash of the Titans" shootout in a few months time.

I managed to get hold of a matched Quad of the legendary GEC Grayglass KT66 NOS power tubes. (If you google "Tubeworld KT66", you can see what they look like)

When I receive my Torii MK4, I shall pit these against my matched Quad of Philips Metal base NOS EL34s.

KT means "kink less".
The KT66 tubes were specially developed by GEC/MOV (UK) to counter the audio sonics of the equally famous power tubes by Philips (European).

I can't wait to receive my Torii MK 4 and settle this audio contest once and for all ! Smiley
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Steve Deckert
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #137 - 09/19/13 at 01:14:28
 
Quote:
So.. †your statement about the Torii's ability to drive more current into higher impedances "explains" my experience and what I'm hearing it do with my single/full-range drivers exactly. †I have "weight" in the mid bass and liquid deliciousness thru the mids and highs, while still having, at times - startling dynamics , and tons of "rez", transient snap/speed, etc. †There's really just not much to complain about. †No "sub" bass present, but that's the speakers, not the amp. †Sub-bass can be added externally.

The "gist" - my question? †Does the Torii MK.IV Retain the same impedance/drive characteristics that the III possesses? †Because I absolutely do not want to "lose" this attribute of my III.


Yes, the MK IV retains this quality. †In fact, the MKIII bass dampening control has been eliminated and replaced with a superior yet simple switch operating a completely new circuit. †The †MK III bass "tightness" control worked, however the amp as a whole sounded better with it turned clockwise vs it's tighter setting of counter clockwise. †This pits the user against controlling boomy bass on certain speakers OR a more textured, open midrange. †NOW, the MK IV uses a bass tightness switch that does exactly and only that. †Effects nothing else.  When activated, the bass is deliciously cleaner than it's ever been before.

The only thing the MK III does better is to come off slightly softer than the MK IV, but then if you use KT66's any trace of hardness is gone, so really there isn't anything the MK III does better, †there really doesn't seem to be any trade offs.

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Steve Deckert
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #138 - 09/19/13 at 01:21:07
 

Quote:
Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #121 - 09/16/13 at 11:42pm    With the risk of sounding half-witted or just plain stupid, does anyone have a photo that shows how the foam and Torii are properly situated in the Pelican case for safe shipping? I have been using my case to store tubes and donít want to risk any shipping damage sending my amp back for an upgrade.






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Steve Deckert
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #139 - 09/19/13 at 01:57:12
 

Quote:
Steve-

Sounds like the Mystery Amp will be a better match for my system, than
the Mk.4, when can I change my order.



Any time before we pull parts to build your amp.  Usually around weeks 8 to 10.  Send Sarah@decware.com an e-mail or call her at (309) 822 5255.

Base price on the Mystery Amp will be 4695.00 and we will go over any options and prices for those options prior to starting your build.

-Steve
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kana813
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #140 - 09/19/13 at 02:40:21
 
"Any time before we pull parts to build your amp.  Usually around weeks 8 to 10.  Send Sarah@decware.com an e-mail or call her at (309) 822 5255.

Base price on the Mystery Amp will be 4695.00 and we will go over any options and prices for those options prior to starting your build. -Steve"


Steve,

Thanks for the info.

I see you're using transformers on the Mystery Amp's input.

Did you know that Audience has a new line of transformers?

http://www.audience-av.com/parts/ait1_description.html

If you'd like to try them, PM me and I'll see if I can get you some samples.
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RoyMercer
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #141 - 09/19/13 at 02:56:48
 
Thanks for the photos Steve!!!
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ryandigital
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #142 - 09/21/13 at 19:21:39
 
Any new Torii mk4 users will share their impression
Thx!
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« Last Edit: 09/21/13 at 19:23:12 by ryandigital »  
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Dom
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #143 - 09/21/13 at 20:48:09
 
This is gonna sound like a crazy request, but same someone give me the exact measurements of the Torii including the height of the tubes.

My little one is in the throwing stage these days, and I am going to have to build or buy an enclosure to keep any unwanted missiles from breaking the tubes.  Unfortunately my current system rack had to be taken out and put in garage.  For the time being, the Torii is going to be situated on my dresser in the bedroom.

Not really the ideal situation and setup, but it's only temporary.

Dom
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will
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #144 - 09/21/13 at 23:35:16
 
Dom,

My MkIII has the contemporary base which is 18.5 x 13. With standard feet and Valve Art 274B rectifiers the height is a little under 8 inches. The Chatham 5R4YWG rectifiers in there now are about the same.
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« Last Edit: 09/21/13 at 23:36:48 by will »  

Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, modded Oppo 83, TORII MkIV, MorrowAudio SP7 cables, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PI Audio Uberbuss...PI, VHaudio DIY, Neotech DIY, Cryoparts DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab feet and tube dampers
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Dom
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Still like that old
time Rock and Roll!!

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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #145 - 09/22/13 at 04:51:15
 
Thanks Will.  Ideally I would love to have something constructed of glass that I could keep on permanently.  It would not only show off the beautiful nightly glow, but protect it as well.  The problem I envision would be the lack of heat dispersion and possibly causing a problem with the unit itself.  I guess Steve would be the only one who could answer that.  

When I first realized that a tube amp was the path I wanted to take....I came across the Jolida amps on a Google search.  What intrigued me was the design of this amp for its glass enclosure....

http://www.jolida.com/product/glassfx/fx10

This would be perfect fit for the Torii in my application.  Hmm....now the cogs are starting to turn.

D
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will
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #146 - 09/22/13 at 06:07:05
 
Dom,

I designed and built a lot of pottery kilns for many years, so understand the basics of heat and draft.

When you look closely at the Jolida, you see that there is an air space top and bottom on all side pieces of glass. With the heat of the tubes and transformers, heat naturally rising, a convection cycle will start passing heat out the top spaces. This is turn sets up a pull from the spaces below, drawing in cooler, room temperature air, cooling the interior air, tubes and transformers as the upper spaces vent heat.

To a degree, the higher the distance from the bottom space to the top space the better it will create an up draft. But at the same time, the jolida unit has plenty of space above the transformers and tubes to collect the greatest heat before it vents out.

The trick would be making the air space in the top big enough, and the top and bottom side glass spaces tall enough to allow good air flow, optimally cooling/venting the unit.

None-the less, since it is enclosed rather than being open, there is likely some heat build up. I suspect the Jolida instructions tell one not to put this in an enclosed space, and not to touch the glass???

The Torri has more, hotter tubes, but also a lot more horizontal surface area. I think it could work. I might think about going a little overboard with the side spaces and the air space above the transformers and tubes. Maybe make the height †3 or so inches higher than the rectifier tops and make the spaces on the bottom and top of the side glass pieces maybe 1/2 to 5/8". If you worked out a way to hold the glass in place in a secure, but somewhat temporary way, you could start with the spaces on the smaller side, and if it heated up too much, pull the glass and get it cut.

The back glass panel would have to allow for cables, and maybe you would want to look for an elbow adapter for the IEC if there is such a thing. This would upset the balance of air flow, but I imagine it could work fine with the back/bottom space two inches or so to accommodate cables while also letting in more air. Or maybe you would not have to protect the back??? leaving it without a panel.

I am guessing you would want the design to allow for lifting off the top glass and sliding out the side glass pieces for access to the inside.

I would talk with Steve about it, but these are some thoughts. Alternately, a similarly shaped stainless steel mesh box that you could easily lift off would function close to having it out in the air, and with the right design and mesh it could look cool.
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« Last Edit: 09/22/13 at 06:17:03 by will »  

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Nature Boy
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #147 - 09/23/13 at 00:14:26
 
Steve,

Congratulations to you and the Decware team on the Torii MKIV amplifier.  Two quick questions:

1) When do you expect new production units will be available given your current order flow?

2) I have seen some posts that the amp will have Jupiter caps.  Are these by chance the latest copper Jupiter caps?  Ric Schultz posted some limited info on these on Audio Circle from his discussions with Chris at Jupiter.

Thanks, have a great Decfest!

Nature Boy
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Dom
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Still like that old
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #148 - 09/23/13 at 00:56:11
 
Hey Will,

Thank you so much for your input...it's greatly appreciated!!   Since you have experience in this area, your advice will be helpful.  Whether I attempt to construct this myself, or outsource it,  i think it's something that will give me peace of mind.  

While a protective metal cage may be easier to construct,  the glass structure would just be that much nicer and add a touch of class.   I did notice the spacing in the glass panes on the top, bottom, and sides.  I am sure that the heat dissipation was taken into account.  I may need to take some surface temps of the base and the tubes themselves to get a better idea of how to proceed.

Dom

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will
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #149 - 09/23/13 at 02:26:00
 
I think a clean glass and metal box would be really nice too.
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« Last Edit: 09/23/13 at 02:26:37 by will »  

Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, modded Oppo 83, TORII MkIV, MorrowAudio SP7 cables, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PI Audio Uberbuss...PI, VHaudio DIY, Neotech DIY, Cryoparts DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab feet and tube dampers
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