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New Torii MKIV (Read 36285 times)
Steve Deckert
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If the 1st watt
sucks why continue?

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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #120 - 09/17/13 at 04:57:57
 
UPDATE: LISTENING TESTS

Evaluations don't just happen in one evening, so to be objectively fair during this contest between the MK IV and the Mystery amp I am on night three with the MK IV reviewing material I have examined dozens of times on the Mystery Amp, and frankly the MK IV is so good, it's making it almost hard to remember what the mystery amp actually sounded like.  That's what you want in a great amplifier.  Clearly the MK IV has more bodacious bass rendering with an abundance of weight and texture, when compared to the more accurate Mystery Amp, but I have to say I'm not entirely sure which amp is actually more fun to listen to.   And if I remember one of my early posts that I defined success in the inability to decide which amp I would rather listen to on a given evening, then I have to say I'm at that place.  The MK IV is a stratospheric leap above the Mk III.  Like a magnifying glass on the music.  A bar that was set my the Mystery Amp, and the ensuring sibling rivalry that followed created the MK IV.

Frankly I couldn't be more pleased with it evolution.  I believe it's now at it's summit.

It's almost ironic if not funny to remember where it all started.... taking a pair of single ended air gapped output transformers and running them in series to create a low efficiency push pull transformer.

I found out the hard way that in the TORII circuit the output transformers had to match within a phase angle of .005% up to 100,000 Hz to keep from osculating into less than desirable conditions.  It was probably the coolest sounding amp I had built to date.  Sadly I had to build four amps just to find one that was stable enough to ship. The rare few owners of these blue Torri's will tell you how nothing sounds like them. It's a long story, but it just demonstrates why nature has certain rules.   If you bend them too far, you get into the Zen Taboo, Torii Zone and it comes with a price.   The first 25 TORII's sold cost me over $50,000.00.   So You can see why after 15 years and all these revisions, including custom output transformers, I am so pleased to see it finally peak, and what a peak it is.  To even be near the level of the Mystery Amp is a huge accomplishment... and here I am after only three days and having a hard time remembering what the mystery amp sounded like, shows you that we have a serious winner on our hands!

I would say for lower volume listening the pristine but weighty texture of the TORII MK IV is probably more desirable than the Mystery Amp.

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« Last Edit: 09/17/13 at 05:01:44 by Steve Deckert »  
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RoyMercer
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #121 - 09/17/13 at 05:42:56
 
With the risk of sounding half-witted or just plain stupid, does anyone have a photo that shows how the foam and Torii are properly situated in the Pelican case for safe shipping? I have been using my case to store tubes and don’t want to risk any shipping damage sending my amp back for an upgrade.
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Velodyne SMS-1, DSPeaker Anti-mode 2.0, Decware Torii MK3, Dynaco MK3 Mono, Outlaw 7500, Modwright Oppo 95 & 105, Decware HDT's, Klipsch RC64 II, RS62 II's, QSC RMX 4050, 2 Danley Sound Labs DTS-10’s, P5 power plant, Powervar ABC3030, ABCE1440 & 30+GIK traps.
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RoyMercer
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #122 - 09/17/13 at 05:52:22
 
Reading Steve's writing is pure audiophile porn. I love it! I keep thinking to myself how does it get better than a MKIII running a pair of Siemens cca's and a quad of 50 year old EL-34's. I know it will be worth the cost and wait… although I may need to attend rehab while my Torii is gone!
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Velodyne SMS-1, DSPeaker Anti-mode 2.0, Decware Torii MK3, Dynaco MK3 Mono, Outlaw 7500, Modwright Oppo 95 & 105, Decware HDT's, Klipsch RC64 II, RS62 II's, QSC RMX 4050, 2 Danley Sound Labs DTS-10’s, P5 power plant, Powervar ABC3030, ABCE1440 & 30+GIK traps.
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Lord Soth
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #123 - 09/17/13 at 06:20:02
 
Audiophile Porn... +1

Just imagine the soft caress of music flowing from the MK4 and powered by 2 pairs of VOLUPTUOUS KT66 tubes.... Wink
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Greg12
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #124 - 09/17/13 at 12:02:21
 
I have a MK3 with the Jupiters already installed.  I emailed Sarah regarding my cost to upgrade to MK4.  $450,  does not change the top to a black plate, that would require a complete rewire job.  1-3 week turn-around.

Greg
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« Last Edit: 09/17/13 at 12:04:17 by Greg12 »  

Torii MkIII, DM947 speakers, Oppo 105
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Lonely Raven
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #125 - 09/17/13 at 15:36:54
 
I hate when you do that, Steve. I'm practically salivating thinking about how much this would improve my sound over my one-off original Zen amp!

Still saving up the $$. I'm about 1/3 the way there!

Any idea when you're going to update the web page (and bump up the price)? That's kind of my deadline for getting up at least half the money and putting my order in...
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Greg12
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #126 - 09/17/13 at 18:57:05
 
LR,  per the email steve sent out w/ pics of the mkiv on sept 12,  it won't be until after Decfest when he can update the web page w/ the new price.
Greg
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Torii MkIII, DM947 speakers, Oppo 105
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kana813
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #127 - 09/17/13 at 20:29:11
 
"I would say for lower volume listening the pristine but weighty texture of the TORII MK IV is probably more desirable than the Mystery Amp."

Does this mean that the Mystery Amp wouldn't make it into production?
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Steve Deckert
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If the 1st watt
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #128 - 09/18/13 at 03:05:16
 
kana813,

The Mystery Amp will be produced.  While I give the edge to the MK IV for lower level listening, the Mystery amp still sounds better with high resolution recordings or analog sources.

Steve
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kana813
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #129 - 09/18/13 at 03:59:09
 
Steve-

Sounds like the Mystery Amp will be a better match for my system, than
the Mk.4, when can I change my order.
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JeffS
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #130 - 09/18/13 at 05:49:59
 
Steve-

I have a MK III Torii with V-Caps.  When I have it upgraded to MK IV would I want to use those?

Jeff
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tgarden
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #131 - 09/18/13 at 06:41:18
 
No,  the Jupiters are an upgrade from the VCaps, in Decware equipment.   I changed my Decware ZSM monoblocks from VCaps to Jupiters.  A big upgrade!

Switched my ZP3 from stock caps to Jupiters in the final stage.  Another big upgrade.

My VCapped Mk III is currently being upgraded to a MK IV with Jupiters.  I am waiting with great anticipation for  that Beeswax/Jupiter HT sound in my upgraded Torii.  Other Torii III owners who have Jupiter caps, can verify this.

Mike
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« Last Edit: 09/18/13 at 14:34:06 by tgarden »  
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maddog07
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #132 - 09/18/13 at 17:17:19
 
One question for you Steve... in one of your compare and contrast posts, either between the Torii 3 and 4 or Torii 4 and Mystery Amp.. you talked about the Torii's "ability" to deliver more current into higher impedances, and something about it making your speakers sound better than they really were, having a "weightier" sound, etc.  

I have a Torii 3... since Dec. '12.  I have heard it driving several different sets of speakers, including vastly different types of speakers, including electrostats.  While the Torii's sonic goodness is apparent to some degree on just about everything I've ever heard it drive, it Was NOT until I connected it to a pair of single, full-range, high-efficiency driver based speakers with no xover at all, did I truly hear the Torii, or the rest of my system for that matter.  
This was an OMG moment, revolutionary in my 30+ years in this hobby.  This is easily the best sound I've ever had in my room, and competes with the best I've ever heard - at any price - including any and everything I've ever heard demo'd anywhere, including at RMAF.  
At first I'm thinking, must be the speakers - right?  since I'd never owned a pair of speakers like this before.  So I hooked up other amps to them... yeah... a hint of the same thing - but not even remotely close to the Torii 3 driving them.  There is an undeniable, absolute match-made-in-heaven synergy going on here.  

And... since most of the full-ranger/high-efficiency types tend to have rising impedance in their lower frequency ranges(at least the ones I have do), they typically sound a little light unless compensated for elsewhere - at least that's been my limited experience so far with these types of speakers.

So..  your statement about the Torii's ability to drive more current into higher impedances "explains" my experience and what I'm hearing it do with my single/full-range drivers exactly.  I have "weight" in the mid bass and liquid deliciousness thru the mids and highs, while still having, at times - startling dynamics , and tons of "rez", transient snap/speed, etc.  There's really just not much to complain about.  No "sub" bass present, but that's the speakers, not the amp.  Sub-bass can be added externally.

The "gist" - my question?  Does the Torii MK.IV Retain the same impedance/drive characteristics that the III possesses?  Because I absolutely do not want to "lose" this attribute of my III.

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Decware Torii MK3, Wyred4Sound DAC2, Theta Digital Miles, Emotiva UMC-1, Emotiva XPA-5, Aesthetix Calypso, Marsh P200b, Martin Logan Vista, Audio Nirvana 12" Alnico's, PS Audio PW P5, Goertz, Kimber, Nordost and DIY wires, PSA pwr cords, I'm outta room..
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RoyMercer
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #133 - 09/18/13 at 17:26:59
 
You just asked my intended question for me and a good one it is!

Steve,

I have the same concern but specifically the MKIV connected to my HDT's.
 
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Velodyne SMS-1, DSPeaker Anti-mode 2.0, Decware Torii MK3, Dynaco MK3 Mono, Outlaw 7500, Modwright Oppo 95 & 105, Decware HDT's, Klipsch RC64 II, RS62 II's, QSC RMX 4050, 2 Danley Sound Labs DTS-10’s, P5 power plant, Powervar ABC3030, ABCE1440 & 30+GIK traps.
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maddog07
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #134 - 09/18/13 at 17:56:28
 
I heard the HDT's at Decfest last year.  I was surprised to see them leave production.  The "value" speaker for Decware IMO... perhaps a new model is forthcoming, but I digress.

Yes I think the HDT's fall into that same category of "type" of speaker that I'm using my Torii 3 with... the single full-range, high-efficiency driver with no xover.  My drivers are Audio Nirvana 12", cast frame, Alnico's..  I was a skeptic for at least 3 years after discovering these types of speakers at RMAF, being driven by flea-watt SET amps that just "made music" and transported me "there".  
I finally could no longer resist what my ears were hearing and telling my brain - my cognitive dissonance was resolved.  And I hopped on this bandwagon - biggest advance in music playback in my room - ever!
Forget the objectivist and the ragged measured response of these drivers... just "listen".  I have "blown away" some local audiophile friends with my speakers and the Torii.  I have one friend who sold Andra's and Avantgarde's and BAT amps after hearing my setup.  And this particular guy can afford to own just about anything he wants!!  Money talks - BS walks.... Decware wins again!
Grin
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Decware Torii MK3, Wyred4Sound DAC2, Theta Digital Miles, Emotiva UMC-1, Emotiva XPA-5, Aesthetix Calypso, Marsh P200b, Martin Logan Vista, Audio Nirvana 12" Alnico's, PS Audio PW P5, Goertz, Kimber, Nordost and DIY wires, PSA pwr cords, I'm outta room..
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