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New Torii MKIV (Read 35212 times)
will
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #100 - 09/14/13 at 02:09:01
 
Kana,

Welcome back. Steve said earlier to order a MkIII and then MkIV build will be automatic and specifics can be sorted out later, with plenty of leed time before build time. The Jupiter caps are standard, and we know the KT66 upgrade is 100.

I would just put what you want in the message box of the order form and ask Sarah to let you know pricing details for the extra volume control as they become available along with the approximate build date so you can be sure all is well when it comes up.

This is what I would do anyway if you want to get a place in line locked in. Or call.
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« Last Edit: 09/14/13 at 02:10:49 by will »  

PSA P5/modified Brickwall/Shunyata Defender/more; MacMini/Audirvana>Jitterbug/Regen> modified Gustard x20pro DAC; DIY + Pi Audio PCs; DIY ICs + USB; Decware-Jupiter CSP3, Torii MKIV, HR1-all modified; DIY Speaker Cables; feet-Madscientist, Archie's, isocups, DIY
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kana813
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #101 - 09/14/13 at 04:05:39
 
Thanks Will.

Just submitted the order.
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Steve Deckert
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #102 - 09/15/13 at 03:35:19
 
UPDATE:  MORE LISTENING TESTS

I had an interesting evening with the TORII MK IV last night.  I played it on my corner horns, which for that amplifier are a worse case scenario when it comes to bass at high volumes. Since the amp likes to put out more current into higher impedances, horns of this design can get a touch boomy.

This very tendency of the amplifier to sound boomy on the corner horns makes the other 12 pair of speakers in our listening room sound better than they actually are…  but nevertheless, it is the worse case scenario you have to design for, so on we marched for the next four hours with the MK IV on the corner horns.  

The new MK IV bass switch really alleviates this tendency with these speakers, so it was of course on the entire time.  And after shifting to more demeaning material, the positive feedback switch was turned off, dropping the dynamics slightly and allowing me to crank the amp a bit harder. Then during the acid test, I used electronic music which has wall cracking low bass at high SPL due to massive compression, I even switched speaker taps with the speaker impedance switch to the softer setting.   These three adjustments kept things tight and clean as the evening matured and the material continued to get more and more challenging.

It is interesting to note, that after four hours I gave up on the EL34's and installed the KT66's that I designed the MK IV to favor. The TORII's tendency to get a little over the top on these speakers had now disappeared and the amplifier became as linear as if there were feedback applied. The midrange and top end and bottom end are virtually perfect now, and at any volume. Nothing changes from modest volumes to louder playback levels and there is a very apparent increase in overall headroom and power.  

Naturally, this was a real thrill as I was well into hour five and playing my challenging tracks to see how well the amplifier maintains it's usable power. Suddenly this simple tube change made everything  twice as good, and I realized I didn't need the speaker impedance switch on the softer setting anymore… so I switched it back and everything got 3dB louder, even fuller, much deeper, and without a trace of strain. It was truly a wow moment…  

Things are getting really fun now… so sucked into the recordings with this latest bust of flavor, another hour went by and I realized I didn't need the bass tighten switch on, so I turned it off. Everything was still fine, nice and tight, but now suddenly even deeper. Again not a hint of strain. It was wow moment no. 2, and I have to say that things are getting amazingly loud without sounding bad… quite the opposite in fact.  (this is btw the epitome of usable power).

Another half hour went by and I realized I hadn't turned on the positive feedback switches yet. So, without further ado, I just turned them on. This was more like a holy-crap movement where I just stood there in the sweet spot of my horns in disbelief at the presence… not to mention the room shifting dynamics that simply felt real.

Ratcheting the performance and sound up three times like that I'd have to equate the experience to a drag race, where you come out of the gate with a nice wheel stand, wind it out and then hit second gear followed by a nice long pull and then hit third gear. You get a little sideways for a moment with the meat on your face pulling back toward your ears from the aggressive pull until everything is a blur… and you then float into your out of body experience. So, clearly the TORII MK IV is a competent space ship like it's predecessors all were, but this one has gears!  

Moral of the story, Tungsol KT66 = MK IV… Just do it.
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will
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #103 - 09/15/13 at 03:58:31
 
What is this Wow/holy crap moment number 4! I'm in!
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CK722
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #104 - 09/15/13 at 04:17:23
 
Thanks for the update Steve. I spent approx. $1,500 stocking up on NOS EL-34's. Do you think there is an improvment upgrading the MK3 while still using EL-34's?
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tgarden
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #105 - 09/15/13 at 05:09:45
 
I have two matched quads of NOS Siemens EL34's for my MK III, which is in the Decware shop being transformed into a MK IV.

Looks like I'll be switching to the KT66's:)

Mike in Seattle area

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will
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #106 - 09/15/13 at 06:10:45
 
Mike,

I look forward to your impressions of the MkIV transformation. Who knows, those Siemens EL34s might be just the things for your "second" amp!!! Nice tubes, but not a particular fav of mine (I seem to like them all in the right company). So many things make up a system though so who's to know!

Right now in my room the MkIII with cryo'd Mullard EL34 reissues, Amperex orange PQ 6922s, Phillips 5R4YGS, Marconi OB3, and Raytheon OC2 is just blowing my mind...but the secret ingredient is the CSP3 with a 50s GE/RCA 5U4G-ST, Brimar 6BQ7As, and an ERA (Mullard) 6Dj8. My God, now I have 8!!! tube sets to play with.

I am not giving up on the EL34 just yet! But I have not heard the MKIV yet either!
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« Last Edit: 09/15/13 at 17:03:33 by will »  

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Dominick
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #107 - 09/15/13 at 06:39:40
 
Holy Blazing Blue Bottles Batman!! Set me up with the KT66's!!  

While I was going to run the EL34's for a while, I may just have to say screw it and add the KT66's to my order, based on Steve's post and recommendation.

Steve...that sounds like a great out of body experience.  I truly can't wait to get this beast home and enjoy my music all over again.

D
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« Last Edit: 09/15/13 at 06:56:05 by Dominick »  

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jsm71
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #108 - 09/15/13 at 13:45:38
 
These tests show that that amp still has plenty of flexibility available despite having different controls than the MK III.  That's encouraging.  Steve was doing all this playing with his corner horns, very different speakers than mine.

I wonder if any of those adjustments would be appropriate with my JansZens.  Those I'm sure give the amp a very different look.  Because of lower sensitivity I'll be working to urge the most power from the amp that I can but maximize the sound quality as well.  It looks like those KT66s will be in my future as well.  Exciting experiments await.
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CK722
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #109 - 09/15/13 at 18:52:06
 
Good point, he said that in regard to the amp with his corner horns. In an earlier post he said the Torii IV kicked the crap out of the Torii III while showing a photo of the IV with EL-34's.  I am thinking now why care. If Steve says it's better you know it will be. I wonder if the mod includes a new black chassis or if they will re-use our white ones. After seeing the black I think it looks much better. Plus it won't show dust / dirt as much.
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tgarden
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #110 - 09/15/13 at 19:08:28
 
I'm fairly certain the Mk III to Mk IV upgrade will be reusing the original white aluminum chassis, after my talk with Sarah a few weeks ago.

Mike
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« Last Edit: 09/15/13 at 19:09:34 by tgarden »  
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Steve Deckert
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #111 - 09/15/13 at 19:08:41
 
Quote:
Thanks for the update Steve. I spent approx. $1,500 stocking up on NOS EL-34's. Do you think there is an improvement upgrading the MK3 while still using EL-34's?


I think there is yes, unless you prefer a softer signature, then there would be nothing wrong with keeping the MKIII a MKIII. Beeswax or VAPS are the logical upgrades for a MK III if you want to kick things up a notch without changing what you already have.

Also, bear in mind this listening test was primarily about pushing the amp to define what it's usable power is. At more normal levels, or on regular speakers, EL34's sound wonderful in the MKIV. It's just that I prefer the KT66's slightly softer sound and more even frequency balance when I'm pushing the amp a bit.

Steve
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« Last Edit: 09/15/13 at 19:12:28 by Steve Deckert »  
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tgarden
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #112 - 09/15/13 at 19:19:10
 
Steve,  Thanks for your clarification about the EL34's!

Mike
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CK722
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #113 - 09/15/13 at 19:37:23
 
Ditto... thanks!
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #114 - 09/16/13 at 02:50:42
 
So at what point will be have a complete fact sheet on the Mk IV, I am getting kind of dizzy flipping back and forth through all the postings to ingest all this data. I have flipped back and forth between biting the bullet on a Torii or just staying put with what I have. It's not a crappy system by any means, it's just that when I put the SE84SE and it gets broken in again, it's SO BLOODY MAGICAL within it's little 2 watt window. Now that I have ordered the Torii IV and am faced with selling off my pre-amp, power amp and dac, get the new amp and get it broken in. Need to break out my old preamp for the phono section (must use my new Decware SUT which is GREAT) which will be interesting until I can order the Decware phono pre-amp. Exciting times we live in, heh??? Thank you Steve and Team Decware for all you do!!!!
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DG
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #115 - 09/16/13 at 03:16:29
 
Forgive me if I missed posts regarding what appears to be different (silver) chokes on the new MK4.  My MK3 has black chokes that match the black transformer bells.  Just curious what is different about the chokes in the photos and if there are plans to keep all the magnetics black - which I kind of prefer.  Sounds like a lot of us have some decisions to make.  
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CK722
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #116 - 09/16/13 at 04:41:25
 
That is a good question. I like the look of the non-painted coils in the back. I would be happy either way but it would be good to know how the unit comes new and what happens when a unit is sent in for upgrade.
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maddog07
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #117 - 09/16/13 at 20:09:20
 
Quote:
That is a good question. I like the look of the non-painted coils in the back. I would be happy either way but it would be good to know how the unit comes new and what happens when a unit is sent in for upgrade.


I 2nd that motion.  what are the differences between getting our 3's upgraded to 4's, versus getting a Torii that was "born" a 4 to start with?
  • Does the white top plate of the 3 get replaced with a black one in the upgrade?  
  • Are any of the transformers/chokes replaced?  
  • Does the upgrade include the new Jupiter coupling caps, or is that optional/extra costs?

give me the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

At this point I can't decide whether to upgrade my III or sell it and buy a IV.  Of course... having not heard the IV yet, only makes it that much harder to decide what course of action to take.  In reality, probably shouldn't do anything until 1) either I've heard the IV with my own ears, or 2) some other folks have had a chance to hear the III .vs. the IV and start reporting in.
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Lon
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #118 - 09/16/13 at 21:29:35
 
Steve has stated that the upgrade will include Jupiter caps. (Which is a very worthwhile upgrade for the Mk III--I've had that done and I don't feel inclined for several reasons to upgrade to a Mk IV).
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tgarden
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #119 - 09/17/13 at 00:26:21
 
The white aluminum plate of the 3, does not get replaced with the new black steel plate in the conversion to the Mk IV.

Mike
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #120 - 09/17/13 at 04:57:57
 
UPDATE: LISTENING TESTS

Evaluations don't just happen in one evening, so to be objectively fair during this contest between the MK IV and the Mystery amp I am on night three with the MK IV reviewing material I have examined dozens of times on the Mystery Amp, and frankly the MK IV is so good, it's making it almost hard to remember what the mystery amp actually sounded like.  That's what you want in a great amplifier.  Clearly the MK IV has more bodacious bass rendering with an abundance of weight and texture, when compared to the more accurate Mystery Amp, but I have to say I'm not entirely sure which amp is actually more fun to listen to.   And if I remember one of my early posts that I defined success in the inability to decide which amp I would rather listen to on a given evening, then I have to say I'm at that place.  The MK IV is a stratospheric leap above the Mk III.  Like a magnifying glass on the music.  A bar that was set my the Mystery Amp, and the ensuring sibling rivalry that followed created the MK IV.

Frankly I couldn't be more pleased with it evolution.  I believe it's now at it's summit.

It's almost ironic if not funny to remember where it all started.... taking a pair of single ended air gapped output transformers and running them in series to create a low efficiency push pull transformer.

I found out the hard way that in the TORII circuit the output transformers had to match within a phase angle of .005% up to 100,000 Hz to keep from osculating into less than desirable conditions.  It was probably the coolest sounding amp I had built to date.  Sadly I had to build four amps just to find one that was stable enough to ship. The rare few owners of these blue Torri's will tell you how nothing sounds like them. It's a long story, but it just demonstrates why nature has certain rules.   If you bend them too far, you get into the Zen Taboo, Torii Zone and it comes with a price.   The first 25 TORII's sold cost me over $50,000.00.   So You can see why after 15 years and all these revisions, including custom output transformers, I am so pleased to see it finally peak, and what a peak it is.  To even be near the level of the Mystery Amp is a huge accomplishment... and here I am after only three days and having a hard time remembering what the mystery amp sounded like, shows you that we have a serious winner on our hands!

I would say for lower volume listening the pristine but weighty texture of the TORII MK IV is probably more desirable than the Mystery Amp.

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« Last Edit: 09/17/13 at 05:01:44 by Steve Deckert »  
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CK722
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #121 - 09/17/13 at 05:42:56
 
With the risk of sounding half-witted or just plain stupid, does anyone have a photo that shows how the foam and Torii are properly situated in the Pelican case for safe shipping? I have been using my case to store tubes and don’t want to risk any shipping damage sending my amp back for an upgrade.
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CK722
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #122 - 09/17/13 at 05:52:22
 
Reading Steve's writing is pure audiophile porn. I love it! I keep thinking to myself how does it get better than a MKIII running a pair of Siemens cca's and a quad of 50 year old EL-34's. I know it will be worth the cost and wait… although I may need to attend rehab while my Torii is gone!
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #123 - 09/17/13 at 06:20:02
 
Audiophile Porn... +1

Just imagine the soft caress of music flowing from the MK4 and powered by 2 pairs of VOLUPTUOUS KT66 tubes.... Wink
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #124 - 09/17/13 at 12:02:21
 
I have a MK3 with the Jupiters already installed.  I emailed Sarah regarding my cost to upgrade to MK4.  $450,  does not change the top to a black plate, that would require a complete rewire job.  1-3 week turn-around.

Greg
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« Last Edit: 09/17/13 at 12:04:17 by Greg12 »  

Torii MkIII with Jupiter caps, ZP3 with Jupiter caps, DM947 Monoliths, Oppo 105, Pro-ject Rm-5.1 Se TT. Hana SH Shibata MC Cartridge 2.0mV
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Lonely Raven
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #125 - 09/17/13 at 15:36:54
 
I hate when you do that, Steve. I'm practically salivating thinking about how much this would improve my sound over my one-off original Zen amp!

Still saving up the $$. I'm about 1/3 the way there!

Any idea when you're going to update the web page (and bump up the price)? That's kind of my deadline for getting up at least half the money and putting my order in...
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Greg12
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #126 - 09/17/13 at 18:57:05
 
LR,  per the email steve sent out w/ pics of the mkiv on sept 12,  it won't be until after Decfest when he can update the web page w/ the new price.
Greg
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kana813
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #127 - 09/17/13 at 20:29:11
 
"I would say for lower volume listening the pristine but weighty texture of the TORII MK IV is probably more desirable than the Mystery Amp."

Does this mean that the Mystery Amp wouldn't make it into production?
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #128 - 09/18/13 at 03:05:16
 
kana813,

The Mystery Amp will be produced.  While I give the edge to the MK IV for lower level listening, the Mystery amp still sounds better with high resolution recordings or analog sources.

Steve
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kana813
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #129 - 09/18/13 at 03:59:09
 
Steve-

Sounds like the Mystery Amp will be a better match for my system, than
the Mk.4, when can I change my order.
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #130 - 09/18/13 at 05:49:59
 
Steve-

I have a MK III Torii with V-Caps.  When I have it upgraded to MK IV would I want to use those?

Jeff
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Current system: Modwright Logitech Transporter, WTL Amadeus w/ Dynavector XX-2 Mk2, CJ Premier 17LS, Sanders Magtech, Magnepan 3.7i

Previous: same sources, CPS2+, Torii Mk3, SE34I.3, Coincident Super Eclipse 3
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #131 - 09/18/13 at 06:41:18
 
No,  the Jupiters are an upgrade from the VCaps, in Decware equipment.   I changed my Decware ZSM monoblocks from VCaps to Jupiters.  A big upgrade!

Switched my ZP3 from stock caps to Jupiters in the final stage.  Another big upgrade.

My VCapped Mk III is currently being upgraded to a MK IV with Jupiters.  I am waiting with great anticipation for  that Beeswax/Jupiter HT sound in my upgraded Torii.  Other Torii III owners who have Jupiter caps, can verify this.

Mike
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« Last Edit: 09/18/13 at 14:34:06 by tgarden »  
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maddog07
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #132 - 09/18/13 at 17:17:19
 
One question for you Steve... in one of your compare and contrast posts, either between the Torii 3 and 4 or Torii 4 and Mystery Amp.. you talked about the Torii's "ability" to deliver more current into higher impedances, and something about it making your speakers sound better than they really were, having a "weightier" sound, etc.  

I have a Torii 3... since Dec. '12.  I have heard it driving several different sets of speakers, including vastly different types of speakers, including electrostats.  While the Torii's sonic goodness is apparent to some degree on just about everything I've ever heard it drive, it Was NOT until I connected it to a pair of single, full-range, high-efficiency driver based speakers with no xover at all, did I truly hear the Torii, or the rest of my system for that matter.  
This was an OMG moment, revolutionary in my 30+ years in this hobby.  This is easily the best sound I've ever had in my room, and competes with the best I've ever heard - at any price - including any and everything I've ever heard demo'd anywhere, including at RMAF.  
At first I'm thinking, must be the speakers - right?  since I'd never owned a pair of speakers like this before.  So I hooked up other amps to them... yeah... a hint of the same thing - but not even remotely close to the Torii 3 driving them.  There is an undeniable, absolute match-made-in-heaven synergy going on here.  

And... since most of the full-ranger/high-efficiency types tend to have rising impedance in their lower frequency ranges(at least the ones I have do), they typically sound a little light unless compensated for elsewhere - at least that's been my limited experience so far with these types of speakers.

So..  your statement about the Torii's ability to drive more current into higher impedances "explains" my experience and what I'm hearing it do with my single/full-range drivers exactly.  I have "weight" in the mid bass and liquid deliciousness thru the mids and highs, while still having, at times - startling dynamics , and tons of "rez", transient snap/speed, etc.  There's really just not much to complain about.  No "sub" bass present, but that's the speakers, not the amp.  Sub-bass can be added externally.

The "gist" - my question?  Does the Torii MK.IV Retain the same impedance/drive characteristics that the III possesses?  Because I absolutely do not want to "lose" this attribute of my III.

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Decware Torii MK3, Wyred4Sound DAC2, Theta Digital Miles, Emotiva XMC-1, Emotiva XPA-5, Aesthetix Calypso, Wyred STP-SE, Martin Logan Vista, Audio Nirvana 12" Alnico's, PS Audio PW P5, Goertz, Kimber, Nordost and DIY wires, PSA pwr cords, Cary SLI-80, DM945's.....
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CK722
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #133 - 09/18/13 at 17:26:59
 
You just asked my intended question for me and a good one it is!

Steve,

I have the same concern but specifically the MKIV connected to my HDT's.
 
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #134 - 09/18/13 at 17:56:28
 
I heard the HDT's at Decfest last year.  I was surprised to see them leave production.  The "value" speaker for Decware IMO... perhaps a new model is forthcoming, but I digress.

Yes I think the HDT's fall into that same category of "type" of speaker that I'm using my Torii 3 with... the single full-range, high-efficiency driver with no xover.  My drivers are Audio Nirvana 12", cast frame, Alnico's..  I was a skeptic for at least 3 years after discovering these types of speakers at RMAF, being driven by flea-watt SET amps that just "made music" and transported me "there".  
I finally could no longer resist what my ears were hearing and telling my brain - my cognitive dissonance was resolved.  And I hopped on this bandwagon - biggest advance in music playback in my room - ever!
Forget the objectivist and the ragged measured response of these drivers... just "listen".  I have "blown away" some local audiophile friends with my speakers and the Torii.  I have one friend who sold Andra's and Avantgarde's and BAT amps after hearing my setup.  And this particular guy can afford to own just about anything he wants!!  Money talks - BS walks.... Decware wins again!
Grin
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SteveC
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #135 - 09/18/13 at 19:28:14
 
I have a Torii 3 and HDT's also. So I'm very interested in this as well.

This thread covered this too: http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1363627564

In a nutshell, (If I remember correctly) the torii pushes more power into higher impedance because it's a pentode.  A Zen Triode does not.  (per Steve at decfest'12)  This is why the torii has the treble cut,.. to counter this effect.

With the KT66 being a beam tetrode, (I know nothing more about them) since it's structurally different than a pentode, it's likely to behave differently than the el34.  (my random guess).  

From Steve's comment in the torii4 thread:
"The Hazen Grid Mod takes advantage of the internal construction of the EL34 to make it a better sounding tube, and it does.  With the circuit changes in the new MK IV, the KT66 is a better fit resulting in an even better sound.  The presentation is far better balanced and you get the full range of the volume control without any clipping." ...

And I infer from "far better balanced" means the KT66 behaves more "flat" with a single driver speaker.  this is all my speculation.

I'm very interested to hear the differences and talk to you guys.  see you in Peoria soon.
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #136 - 09/18/13 at 23:55:08
 
Dear fellow Audiophiles,

There will be an audio "Clash of the Titans" shootout in a few months time.

I managed to get hold of a matched Quad of the legendary GEC Grayglass KT66 NOS power tubes. (If you google "Tubeworld KT66", you can see what they look like)

When I receive my Torii MK4, I shall pit these against my matched Quad of Philips Metal base NOS EL34s.

KT means "kink less".
The KT66 tubes were specially developed by GEC/MOV (UK) to counter the audio sonics of the equally famous power tubes by Philips (European).

I can't wait to receive my Torii MK 4 and settle this audio contest once and for all ! Smiley
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #137 - 09/19/13 at 01:14:28
 
Quote:
So..  your statement about the Torii's ability to drive more current into higher impedances "explains" my experience and what I'm hearing it do with my single/full-range drivers exactly.  I have "weight" in the mid bass and liquid deliciousness thru the mids and highs, while still having, at times - startling dynamics , and tons of "rez", transient snap/speed, etc.  There's really just not much to complain about.  No "sub" bass present, but that's the speakers, not the amp.  Sub-bass can be added externally.

The "gist" - my question?  Does the Torii MK.IV Retain the same impedance/drive characteristics that the III possesses?  Because I absolutely do not want to "lose" this attribute of my III.


Yes, the MK IV retains this quality.  In fact, the MKIII bass dampening control has been eliminated and replaced with a superior yet simple switch operating a completely new circuit.  The  MK III bass "tightness" control worked, however the amp as a whole sounded better with it turned clockwise vs it's tighter setting of counter clockwise.  This pits the user against controlling boomy bass on certain speakers OR a more textured, open midrange.  NOW, the MK IV uses a bass tightness switch that does exactly and only that.  Effects nothing else.  When activated, the bass is deliciously cleaner than it's ever been before.

The only thing the MK III does better is to come off slightly softer than the MK IV, but then if you use KT66's any trace of hardness is gone, so really there isn't anything the MK III does better,  there really doesn't seem to be any trade offs.

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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #138 - 09/19/13 at 01:21:07
 

Quote:
Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #121 - 09/16/13 at 11:42pm    With the risk of sounding half-witted or just plain stupid, does anyone have a photo that shows how the foam and Torii are properly situated in the Pelican case for safe shipping? I have been using my case to store tubes and don’t want to risk any shipping damage sending my amp back for an upgrade.






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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #139 - 09/19/13 at 01:57:12
 

Quote:
Steve-

Sounds like the Mystery Amp will be a better match for my system, than
the Mk.4, when can I change my order.



Any time before we pull parts to build your amp.  Usually around weeks 8 to 10.  Send Sarah@decware.com an e-mail or call her at (309) 822 5255.

Base price on the Mystery Amp will be 4695.00 and we will go over any options and prices for those options prior to starting your build.

-Steve
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #140 - 09/19/13 at 02:40:21
 
"Any time before we pull parts to build your amp.  Usually around weeks 8 to 10.  Send Sarah@decware.com an e-mail or call her at (309) 822 5255.

Base price on the Mystery Amp will be 4695.00 and we will go over any options and prices for those options prior to starting your build. -Steve"


Steve,

Thanks for the info.

I see you're using transformers on the Mystery Amp's input.

Did you know that Audience has a new line of transformers?

http://www.audience-av.com/parts/ait1_description.html

If you'd like to try them, PM me and I'll see if I can get you some samples.
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #141 - 09/19/13 at 02:56:48
 
Thanks for the photos Steve!!!
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #142 - 09/21/13 at 19:21:39
 
Any new Torii mk4 users will share their impression
Thx!
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« Last Edit: 09/21/13 at 19:23:12 by ryandigital »  
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #143 - 09/21/13 at 20:48:09
 
This is gonna sound like a crazy request, but same someone give me the exact measurements of the Torii including the height of the tubes.

My little one is in the throwing stage these days, and I am going to have to build or buy an enclosure to keep any unwanted missiles from breaking the tubes.  Unfortunately my current system rack had to be taken out and put in garage.  For the time being, the Torii is going to be situated on my dresser in the bedroom.

Not really the ideal situation and setup, but it's only temporary.

Dom
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #144 - 09/21/13 at 23:35:16
 
Dom,

My MkIII has the contemporary base which is 18.5 x 13. With standard feet and Valve Art 274B rectifiers the height is a little under 8 inches. The Chatham 5R4YWG rectifiers in there now are about the same.
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« Last Edit: 09/21/13 at 23:36:48 by will »  

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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #145 - 09/22/13 at 04:51:15
 
Thanks Will.  Ideally I would love to have something constructed of glass that I could keep on permanently.  It would not only show off the beautiful nightly glow, but protect it as well.  The problem I envision would be the lack of heat dispersion and possibly causing a problem with the unit itself.  I guess Steve would be the only one who could answer that.  

When I first realized that a tube amp was the path I wanted to take....I came across the Jolida amps on a Google search.  What intrigued me was the design of this amp for its glass enclosure....

http://www.jolida.com/product/glassfx/fx10

This would be perfect fit for the Torii in my application.  Hmm....now the cogs are starting to turn.

D
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #146 - 09/22/13 at 06:07:05
 
Dom,

I designed and built a lot of pottery kilns for many years, so understand the basics of heat and draft.

When you look closely at the Jolida, you see that there is an air space top and bottom on all side pieces of glass. With the heat of the tubes and transformers, heat naturally rising, a convection cycle will start passing heat out the top spaces. This is turn sets up a pull from the spaces below, drawing in cooler, room temperature air, cooling the interior air, tubes and transformers as the upper spaces vent heat.

To a degree, the higher the distance from the bottom space to the top space the better it will create an up draft. But at the same time, the jolida unit has plenty of space above the transformers and tubes to collect the greatest heat before it vents out.

The trick would be making the air space in the top big enough, and the top and bottom side glass spaces tall enough to allow good air flow, optimally cooling/venting the unit.

None-the less, since it is enclosed rather than being open, there is likely some heat build up. I suspect the Jolida instructions tell one not to put this in an enclosed space, and not to touch the glass???

The Torri has more, hotter tubes, but also a lot more horizontal surface area. I think it could work. I might think about going a little overboard with the side spaces and the air space above the transformers and tubes. Maybe make the height  3 or so inches higher than the rectifier tops and make the spaces on the bottom and top of the side glass pieces maybe 1/2 to 5/8". If you worked out a way to hold the glass in place in a secure, but somewhat temporary way, you could start with the spaces on the smaller side, and if it heated up too much, pull the glass and get it cut.

The back glass panel would have to allow for cables, and maybe you would want to look for an elbow adapter for the IEC if there is such a thing. This would upset the balance of air flow, but I imagine it could work fine with the back/bottom space two inches or so to accommodate cables while also letting in more air. Or maybe you would not have to protect the back??? leaving it without a panel.

I am guessing you would want the design to allow for lifting off the top glass and sliding out the side glass pieces for access to the inside.

I would talk with Steve about it, but these are some thoughts. Alternately, a similarly shaped stainless steel mesh box that you could easily lift off would function close to having it out in the air, and with the right design and mesh it could look cool.
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« Last Edit: 09/22/13 at 06:17:03 by will »  

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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #147 - 09/23/13 at 00:14:26
 
Steve,

Congratulations to you and the Decware team on the Torii MKIV amplifier.  Two quick questions:

1) When do you expect new production units will be available given your current order flow?

2) I have seen some posts that the amp will have Jupiter caps.  Are these by chance the latest copper Jupiter caps?  Ric Schultz posted some limited info on these on Audio Circle from his discussions with Chris at Jupiter.

Thanks, have a great Decfest!

Nature Boy
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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #148 - 09/23/13 at 00:56:11
 
Hey Will,

Thank you so much for your input...it's greatly appreciated!!   Since you have experience in this area, your advice will be helpful.  Whether I attempt to construct this myself, or outsource it,  i think it's something that will give me peace of mind.  

While a protective metal cage may be easier to construct,  the glass structure would just be that much nicer and add a touch of class.   I did notice the spacing in the glass panes on the top, bottom, and sides.  I am sure that the heat dissipation was taken into account.  I may need to take some surface temps of the base and the tubes themselves to get a better idea of how to proceed.

Dom

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Re: New Torii MKIV
Reply #149 - 09/23/13 at 02:26:00
 
I think a clean glass and metal box would be really nice too.
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« Last Edit: 09/23/13 at 02:26:37 by will »  

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