Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
Decware Audio Forums
12/22/14 at 11:29:30


Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 ... 8
Send Topic Print
CSP3 #001 - First photos (Read 18429 times)
Rizlaw
Senior Member
***




Posts: 92
Re: CSP3 #001 - First photos
Reply #45 - 09/12/13 at 00:01:52
 
Will,

I received Steve's ICs late yesterday and installed them last night. I have positive initial impressions but I am delaying writing about them until I fully burn them in. I rumaged through my closet and found my 1991 Duo-Tech Cable enhancer (no true audiophile should be without one. Grin ). The cables need to be connected for 48hrs minimum for burn in according to the instructions.

In the meantime, as I previously said I would, I ordered and received two RCA 1951/2 NOS JAN CRC 5Y3GT (military cream color boxs that look 50 years old with U.S. Navy anchor and other military related info) just to see if they make any improvements to the sound over my Cryoset 274Bs (as mentioned by Lon). However, I was very surprised when I saw just how small these 5Y3GTs are compared to the 5U4G family. They are less than half the size of the 274Bs. The small size of thess tubes really took me by surprise.

I do have a 2 questions about 5Y3GT tubes:

1. When I turned the CSP3 on, I noticed that the heaters on these tubes lit up just as fast as the 274Bs. As an indirectly heated, delayed turn on tube, it is normal for the heaters to light up immediately? Being new to indirectly heated tubes, I thought, after AC was applied, the heaters would only fully light up after several seconds had passed.

2. The 5Y3GT tubes have no silver oxide type coating anywhere inside the glass tube, unlike all of my other rectifiers and tubes.  Is this normal for 1950s tubes? These tubes cost me $34.00 each from KCA NOS Tubes in Virginia. Just want to make sure they are OK.

Thanks, anyone who can answer these two questions.
Back to top
 
 

System 1: Computer/Linux OS > W4S DAC-2DSDse > ZBIT box > Woo WA-2 / CSP3 > Taboo III > Omega 3E / LCD-2.1/ Beyer DT-990/DT-1350
System 2: Yamaha PX-2 (Shure Ultra) / Oppo DV983H > Classe CAP2100 > Thiel 7.2
System 3: Fisher:R200/X202B > Magnapan MMG
  IP Logged
will
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 1269
Re: CSP3 #001 - First photos
Reply #46 - 09/12/13 at 02:35:11
 
Rizlaw,

I think you are fine with those RCA 53YGTs. At least the ones I have, I would describe similarly. They are very small relative to 5U4G-STs, not slow warm up, and there is no getter fuming from the bottom getter. The lack of silver getter fuming is not a 50s thing, but in this case, a tube type thing. I have some Heintz and Kaufman 5Y3WGTAs that have slow heaters, and the getters are on top. On these there is a silver getter sort of cap on the glass. I don't think the RCAs I have are slow heaters. Like yours, they light right up.

I suspect you are fine just try them and see if you like what they do.

Hope the Decware ICs are good for you. Nice you have a burnin tool for them. I can't recall how hard they were to burn in, but relative to many, I suspect they will be easy having mostly air dielectric.
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 09/12/13 at 02:36:02 by will »  

Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-6, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5 and Shunyata Defender, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab isocups and tube dampers...
  IP Logged
Lord Soth
Seasoned Member
****


I'm an American
BadAss!

Posts: 270
Re: CSP3 #001 - First photos
Reply #47 - 09/12/13 at 02:49:27
 
Hi Rizlaw,

The old 5Y3s do have the silver getter lining.
It is buried at the bottom of the glass tube near the base.

Most tubes (normal ones) have the getter on top, hence the source of confusion.

If you shine a torchlight down into the base of the glass tube, whilst looking down from the top, you should be able to spot the silver getter lining.

Suggest u give them at least 50 hrs of play before making any sonic judgements. Rectifiers take at least 50-100 hrs before they bloom.
My Bendix 5y3 - the super rectifier used in the US NIKE intercontinental missiles during the Cold War took at least 200 hrs of burnin before they gave acceptable sonic results.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
funch
Verified Member
**




Posts: 19
Re: CSP3 #001 - First photos
Reply #48 - 09/12/13 at 03:35:34
 
Rizlaw:
I just read your reply #27 and it was a revelation, as I have been
having trouble with tubes in the output positions on my 2+. I'll have
to spend some more time reading the link you posted. Now my mind
is at ease, except for the 67VDC heater voltage I'm measuring.  >:(

There's a link to a couple of black knobs below.

Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 09/12/13 at 04:15:36 by funch »  
  IP Logged
funch
Verified Member
**




Posts: 19
Re: CSP3 #001 - First photos
Reply #49 - 09/12/13 at 03:41:07
 
Here's the link:http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?pv91=329&pv183=6711&pv73=37&pv76=469&pv...

To pry off the stock knob, you can use two spoons. Place the tip of
each one under the knob on opposite sides and push down on the handles. You will probably need two fairly strong spoons.

BTW, this http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?pv91=329&pv183=3121&pv73=37&pv76=510&pv... is the knob I'm using on my
CSP and Taboo II for volume.
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 09/12/13 at 04:18:35 by funch »  
  IP Logged
Rizlaw
Senior Member
***




Posts: 92
Re: CSP3 #001 - First photos
Reply #50 - 09/12/13 at 04:35:47
 
Lord Soth,

Thanks for the info on where to look for the silver getter material. It looks like you said: buried right down at the bottom of the base where the pins come out. It's hard to see, but I think I see it.

BTW, in you're opinion, are the Bendix 6101 sonically the same as the black plate RCA 5Y3GTs from the 50's or are they better? I ask because I found them at this Turkish link for $39.00 each and I'm wondering whether it's really worth spending another $80-90 bucks for another pair.
http://www.nostubestore.com/2010/04/bendix-61065y3wgt.html
I'm sure I can find a U.S. retailer if it's really worth the effort.

Funch,

That SRPP circuit is a tough baby for the driver tubes in the CSP2+ and 3. I think that's part of the reason Steve designed the preamps around the 6N1P-EV tubes. Amperex 7308s seem to work well, too. It seems that the Russian tubes and American/European 7308 class tubes are what's needed for the drivers.

Also, thanks for the link to the black knobs, I've bookmarked it for future reference. I could have used it before I got the 8 silver knobs from Parts-Express. Cry  I completely forgot to look at DigiKey. But, I am tempted.

Will,

My RCA 5Y3GTs light up fast like yours do and that's why I asked the question. I thought indirectly heated tubes were supposed to lite up slowly to protect the outputs tubes. By slowly, I mean several seconds (maybe 10 sec or more) so that full current isn't passed to the output tubes before they have had a chance to warm up/ fully turn on. I believe this is to avoid what's called "cathode stripping". However, in my readings I have learned that cathode stripping in audio gear is really a non-issue at the lower voltages we are dealing with in audio amps. I posted about it in the Taboo III forum.
Back to top
 
 

System 1: Computer/Linux OS > W4S DAC-2DSDse > ZBIT box > Woo WA-2 / CSP3 > Taboo III > Omega 3E / LCD-2.1/ Beyer DT-990/DT-1350
System 2: Yamaha PX-2 (Shure Ultra) / Oppo DV983H > Classe CAP2100 > Thiel 7.2
System 3: Fisher:R200/X202B > Magnapan MMG
  IP Logged
funch
Verified Member
**




Posts: 19
Re: CSP3 #001 - First photos
Reply #51 - 09/12/13 at 04:50:21
 
I actually bought 4 Russian 6N1P's, and three of the four are also
noisy. I guess I'll just stick with the stockers for now.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Lord Soth
Seasoned Member
****


I'm an American
BadAss!

Posts: 270
Re: CSP3 #001 - First photos
Reply #52 - 09/12/13 at 05:53:49
 
Hi Rizlaw,

I believe that I burned in my Bendix 5Y3s for over 200+ hrs.
Mine were from the same Turkish seller u mentioned.
I bought 2 from NOS tube store some time back when I was still tube rolling the rectifier section of the CSP2+.

Sonics wise, the 5Y3 either Tung Sol or RCA sound much better in an organic way. The Bendix sounded too SOLID State too me. Maybe I have to burn them in for 500+ hrs?
Anyway I finally gave up on these tough critters.

At 200+ hrs, the Tung Sol 5Y3 still sounds much better in the mids.

Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
will
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 1269
Re: CSP3 #001 - First photos
Reply #53 - 09/12/13 at 07:05:09
 
Rizlaw said: Quote:
My RCA 5Y3GTs light up fast like yours do and that's why I asked the question. I thought indirectly heated tubes were supposed to lite up slowly to protect the outputs tubes.


Sorry, I thought I was answering this, but realize it was obscure. I don't think the RCA 5Y3GTs you or I have are indirectly heated, whereas the Heintz and Kaufman 5Y3WGTAs are. These by the way are the same tubes as the Bendix from the NOStubestore, but the Heintz were cheaper not having the Bendix label.

I remember liking them a lot at one point, but last tube set I listened to them in, I would agree with LS for the most part. The RCAs in that test were more organic and textural. I tend not to use the 5y3s. I like their tonal qualities, but always lose out with their lower power and reduced dynamics compared to 5U4G, 5R4GY, and 5AR4s.

Once I get the CSP3 fully burned in, I will give them a good try though. Listening to it now in perhaps the third stage of burnin, I am happy with the sound of the Westinghouse (RCA) 5U4G-ST I have been using. With the ERA (MUllard) 6DJ8 input, and black plate "17" 6N1Ps outputs, to me, it has a nice natural sound, open and spacious, dynamic in a soft and musical way, warmth without darkness, really nice timbre...

I am really impressed with how tubes show up with the CSP3. It is fun to hear how clearly it reveals their qualities while keeping its special signature alive and well. The output stage is really something cool, and the Jupiter caps.....very nice.
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 09/12/13 at 07:08:25 by will »  

Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-6, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5 and Shunyata Defender, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab isocups and tube dampers...
  IP Logged
thegrobe
Verified Member
**




Posts: 25
Re: CSP3 #001 - First photos
Reply #54 - 10/05/13 at 06:34:02
 
So I ordered up a matched pair of Genelex Gold Lion 6922 and a more premium graded one for the input tube. I popped the matched set into the output positions of my CSP3. ....and that's exactly what I got...POP POP POP POP POP.  :o

So then I check this thread and now I see there's been some discussion about the circuit needing really strong tubes. I guess the Gold Lion is on the "no good" list.

Question- Did I damage these tubes at all? The CSP was on for about a minute or two before I turned on the Taboo and heard the mayhem. I tried them in the input position and they seem fine....

So it's back to the 6N1P-EV stockers for now on the output.

Another question - Can anyone recommend a seller to get a nice matched, maybe cryoed pair of the 6N1P? Seems maybe a good idea to stick with that until there are some further recommendations here for a tube that creates a sonic improvement in the CSP and is strong enough to work in the circuit. I'm not into jamming more experimental, expensive tubes in there to listen to fireworks   Cheesy
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 10/05/13 at 06:35:47 by thegrobe »  

Jriver MC > Audiophilleo 2+PurePower > Audio-GD SA-2 DAC > Decware Zen Triode CSP3 > Decware Zen Taboo mkIII > Norse Audio Skuld 8 > HD800 (also: DH Labs Silver Revelation / SoundSilver Interconnects...And a few fistfulls of tubes!)
  IP Logged
Lord Soth
Seasoned Member
****


I'm an American
BadAss!

Posts: 270
Re: CSP3 #001 - First photos
Reply #55 - 10/05/13 at 06:58:48
 
Hi thegrobe,

I got my super Cryoed 6N1P-EV matched pair from Cryoset.com.

I think Lon over here has dealt with this tube seller too.

Cryoset is one of the reliable non-bs kind of seller.
Although detractors of Cryoed tubes out there might beg to differ ..... Wink
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 7913
Re: CSP3 #001 - First photos
Reply #56 - 10/05/13 at 11:12:09
 
As LS has noted, I've dealt with cryoset, very favorably, for years. Excellent tube vendor. I use their "Super Cryo'd" 6N1P in my CSP2, CSP2+ and Torii Mk III components; 6N1P is the tube type that offers the most sonic improvement for me in my system, have tried most of the others that can be used and don't prefer therm.

The cryo'd tubes can take a few hundred hours to really be all they can be.
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 10/05/13 at 11:12:43 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DVD-A1UDCI, Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Stradivarius, Ultra Linear+Evo ICs, Iso-Pods,Mapleshade:Double Heiix Plus,Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
  IP Logged
will
Seasoned Member
****




Posts: 1269
Re: CSP3 #001 - First photos
Reply #57 - 10/05/13 at 16:43:26
 
I have bought loads of tubes from cryoset. Really good guy.

Also I have tried many 6922, 6DJ8, 7DJ8, an E188CC, and even had one pair of NOS Ediswan 6BQ7A make the dreaded popping, though some other 6BQ7As hum, and several work fine, especially if I lower the voltage going into the CSP3 below 120 and have a very quiet 6 type in the input. It seems that hum may be the almost works phase. The same tubes are fine in the Torii inputs so I assume it is the SRPP output circuit of the CSP.

I even got some NOS Siemens E288CC on LS's recommendation, and no popping, but I can barely get sound out of them. Any thoughts ...bad tubes? They fire up in a pretty quiet way, and really do look NOS.

I am not sure what constitutes a "strong tube" but with my CSP3, it seems to be a crap shoot at best to use anything other than the 6N1P in the outputs. I would love to hear more about "strong tubes". From my experience, only perhaps the 6BQ7A should even be referred to as an option on the output section, which luckily is an inexpensive tube, so if the pair does not work, it is not a great loss.

Any thoughts?
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 10/05/13 at 16:44:46 by will »  

Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, CSP3, TORII MkIV, Morrow SP-6, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PSAudio P5 and Shunyata Defender, PI Audio and DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab isocups and tube dampers...
  IP Logged
Francesco
Verified Member
**




Posts: 21
Re: CSP3 #001 - First photos
Reply #58 - 10/05/13 at 17:20:44
 
Hello all
Now I have in my CSP2 3 E188CC philips and one GE 5UAGT and everything is OK no noisy no popping and sound  very good.
Yesterday I receave a quad of 6N1P-EB from Russia they are from 1972 made in novosibriaski factory (20.00$ include shipping, I givve a try) (people said the best) I put in my tester and test strong.
Tomorrow I will try in my CSP and see.
Also I ordered A 5Y3GB Mazda/Belvu from France, this tube is indirect heathing, and are like a soft start, very good for the life of tubes, sonically they must very good, I will let you know
Have a nice day
Francesco
Back to top
 
« Last Edit: 10/05/13 at 17:23:15 by Francesco »  
  IP Logged
Lon
Seasoned Member
****


"Love without
guts is
worthless!"
Philip K. D*ck

Posts: 7913
Re: CSP3 #001 - First photos
Reply #59 - 10/05/13 at 17:41:01
 
Sounds like some really good tubes Francesco, great, let us know how they sound.

Back to top
 
 

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DVD-A1UDCI, Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Stradivarius, Ultra Linear+Evo ICs, Iso-Pods,Mapleshade:Double Heiix Plus,Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
  IP Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 ... 8
Send Topic Print