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Anyone there to help? (Read 4961 times)
Rivieraranch
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Re: Anyone there to help?
Reply #30 - 08/19/13 at 12:44:15
 
You've ruled out the MINI TORII by now.

You probably need 6 watts for classical music, which often goes from dead silent to a full orchestral crescendo at a moment's notice.

A 2-4 watt amplifier would not be able to handle that as well as one with more juice.

To have 6 watts you have either The Rachel or a pair of SUPER ZENS strapped in mono. The Rachel is more laid back sounding than the SUPER ZEN.  I have had both. However the ZEN has a bias switch that goes from laid back to a hotter sound, which you can use on the fly.

You could purchase two SUPER ZENS and run each in a mono configuration. You will get 6 watts per block from that combination. You can get a switch box to route the sources.  You can modify the volume for each side individually as well. If you go the SUPER ZEN route, don't get the EX (6-16 ohm) transformers. Your speakers are sensitive enough that the regular transformer (2-8 ohms) would do fine. You lose some transparency with the higher OHM transformer.
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« Last Edit: 08/19/13 at 12:47:45 by Rivieraranch »  

DECWARE CSP2+, TABOO MK III; SE84CKC; HR1; TRAPEZIUM DESKTOP SPEAKERS; TECHNICS SL1200MK5 turntable; Ah! Njoe Tjoeb CD player; MARANTZ 2226B, 2216B receivers; SENNHEISER HD-580 headphones
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Lon
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Re: Anyone there to help?
Reply #31 - 08/19/13 at 13:20:08
 
JIm (RR) is giving good advice. Personally, I'd go with the Integrated as it is a bit more mellow/forgiving than the Zen amp sound, and with many classical recordings that will be a boon. Also I recommend you request to have the treble cut circuit added. . . when I had this on my Integrated it was particularly a boon for classical music, allowing you to get the violin tone just right.
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DVD-A1UDCI, Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Stradivarius, Ultra Linear+Evo ICs, Iso-Pods,Mapleshade:Double Heiix Plus,Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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Rose
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Re: Anyone there to help?
Reply #32 - 08/19/13 at 15:40:49
 
How do you get a treble cut circuit added (BTW, I don't even know what this is)? I didn't see it as an upgrade. I'm assuming this isn't free, right?
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Lon
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Re: Anyone there to help?
Reply #33 - 08/19/13 at 15:51:30
 
This is a trim circuit that is outside the signal path that allows you to tailor the high frequency sound from the speakers, on each channel. It's included on a few models "stock" and Steve told me it could be added to any amp. When I had it added to my Integrated (four or five years ago) it was a 100 dollar option. Whenever you DO (and you will eventually) get in contact with Decware, mention it.

Here is what Steve says bout the circuit in the Torii Mk III page:

Trim control on each channel for the treble.  This allows you to adjust the top end this amp offers so that virtually any loudspeaker can sound right, be it a Lowther full range driver or your favorite hi-fi speaker.
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« Last Edit: 08/19/13 at 15:53:38 by Lon »  

Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DVD-A1UDCI, Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Stradivarius, Ultra Linear+Evo ICs, Iso-Pods,Mapleshade:Double Heiix Plus,Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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maddog07
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Re: Anyone there to help?
Reply #34 - 08/19/13 at 16:54:18
 
Rose...
on the communications issue with Decware right now.  I have been communicating with them the last couple of weeks myself and found them to be a bit less responsive than normal.  And I found out "why" from DeVon last Friday - Steve had an accident and has been down & out for the last couple of weeks.  Sarah has been out also.  Good news is; Steve is on the mend and Sarah will be back shortly as well.  Decware is worth the wait - trust me.  They are not ignoring you.  I have found that the phone is typically the best way to communicate with them.  You are dealing with a very personal, family business and they will treat you like family also - just be patient and persistent - when necessary.
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Decware Torii MK3, Wyred4Sound DAC2, Theta Digital Miles, Emotiva UMC-1, Emotiva XPA-5, Aesthetix Calypso, Marsh P200b, Martin Logan Vista, Audio Nirvana 12" Alnico's, PS Audio PW P5, Goertz, Kimber, Nordost and DIY wires, PSA pwr cords, I'm outta room..
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Rose
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Re: Anyone there to help?
Reply #35 - 08/19/13 at 18:32:39
 
maddog07,
Thanks for the update. I understand that unexpected events occur in life. I don't hold it against anyone. People keep telling me that it's worth the wait, so I will continue to wait.
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Rose
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Re: Anyone there to help?
Reply #36 - 08/19/13 at 18:45:34
 
I apologize beforehand for yet more rudimentary questions I am about to ask. These are based on what some people have told me.

1. Do I need a DAC? I was told that I do since I'll use my speakers to listen to CDs. Apparently I either need a separate DAC or a preamp with an internal DAC even though the Oppo has a DAC.

2. I was told that I need an active preamp. Why?

As you can see, I'm still confused about a lot of things, and I have a long way to go and learn. If I don't buy an amp from Decware, I'd like to at least buy a preamp to use with another amp.
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Lon
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Re: Anyone there to help?
Reply #37 - 08/19/13 at 19:53:30
 
Rose,

The Oppo has a DAC within (all CD players do) that has gotten really good reviews. I've personally not been bowled over by the sound of Oppo players, but my DAC and Transport (two separate units that are combined in a CD player) costs far more than the Oppos I've heard. You don't need a standalone DAC, I think others may have said you do because they may think you will be using a computer as a transport for your discs.

In your case the Oppo's DAC section can be accessed via inputs on the Oppo to be used by other components such as your Roku, so you really don't need another DAC.

The need for a preamp will depend on the amp you select. Some (one or two Decware amps can be configured this way) do not offer any control of volume or more than one input, so these would need a preamp, although not necessarily an active one, some passive would work. But others have more than one input and a "preamp stage" that allows you to switch between sources and control volume. One configuration of the Integrated offers four inputs and volume control. One would not need a preamp with that amp, though a good one may improve sound quality or make it significantly better in some ways.

Bottom line: you probably need neither a DAC nor a preamp with your source and the right amp.
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Decware:ERR,HR-1,ZP3,CSP2+,Torii Mk III,PS Audio PWT+DS,PowerBases,PPP,AC-12 pcs, Denon DVD-A1UDCI, Rega RP3 +TTPSU,white belt+Exact2, VooDoo Cable:Stradivarius, Ultra Linear+Evo ICs, Iso-Pods,Mapleshade:Double Heiix Plus,Samsonv2+v3 +4" platforms,Herbie's Iso-Cup
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beowulf
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Re: Anyone there to help?
Reply #38 - 08/19/13 at 21:07:43
 
Quote:
Rivieraranch said,
If you go the SUPER ZEN route, don't get the EX (6-16 ohm) transformers. Your speakers are sensitive enough that the regular transformer (2-8 ohms) would do fine. You lose some transparency with the higher OHM transformer.


RR, this is good to know ... I always suspected that the regular 2-6 ohms transformer would be best even though a persons speakers would fall into the 6-16 ohm range.  How would you feel with a pair of 16 ohm speakers such as the Zu Soul Superfly ... would you still go with the 2-6?
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Lin
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Re: Anyone there to help?
Reply #39 - 08/19/13 at 22:12:26
 
FWIW
I have owned several SE84s and I have an original Torii, with all of them an active preamp was necessary to reach a satisfying listening level on about 10% of my CDs* with a standard 2 volt out CD player. Most everything else also benefited from an active preamp.

YMMV,
Lin
*Classical and Jazz
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beowulf
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Re: Anyone there to help?
Reply #40 - 08/19/13 at 22:19:28
 
Quote:
Rosa said,
1. Do I need a DAC? I was told that I do since I'll use my speakers to listen to CDs. Apparently I either need a separate DAC or a preamp with an internal DAC even though the Oppo has a DAC.

2. I was told that I need an active preamp. Why?


Echoing what Lon said ...

The Oppo BDP-105 has actually 2 state of the art DACs inside it.  I believe one DAC is for when playing media such as CD's and Blu-Rays from the Oppo's drive and the other DAC is for external components such as your Ruko and if you added another source component such as a PC or Mac.  The sound of the DAC is subjective, some people really like it, some don't ... I think it sounds pretty good, Lon doesn't care for it.

1. So, No ... you do not need a DAC if you run all your source components through the Oppo (in fact the Oppo is a DAC).

Think of a Preamp as a device that you hook up all of your audio source components to and you can control things such as volume, balance of everything connected to it the Preamp.  An Integrated Amp is a combination of a Preamp + Amp usually in one box.

A lot of Decware amps come with volume controls and inputs, this allows you to hook up 1 or 2 source componets (such as your Oppo) directly to the Decware amp because you can control the volume, etc. through the amp, but I wouldn't necessarily call that an Inegrated Amp as when I think of a Integrated I think of a unit that has a little more control other than volume control, I also think it should have multiple inputs, a selector switch that would allow you to hook up more than one component and some form of balance controls.  By the way the Rachel hits all the marks for this.

Decware offers a Preamp called the CSP2+, and it can be used with almost if not all of Decware's amp and lot of people love this little preamp as giving just a little more oomph by combining it with a Decware amp.  But it is not a necessary componet if your amp has volume controls and inputs.

Since the Oppo has inputs and volume control ... you can actully think of the Oppo BDP-105 as a Preamp/Home Theater Processor (that just happens to also have a Universal Disc player in it) as it does almost everything those 2 components can do (although it is limited by the number of inputs compared to full blown Home Theater Processor (usually they have 5-10 inputs or more whereas the Oppo has only 2).  A lot of people buy the Oppo because it is a great Blu-Ray player, but they don't realize that it can do way more such as act like a A/V Preamp/Processor, it can stream media from anywhere in your house, it can play Blu-Rays, CDs, SACD and just about anything else on disc under the sun, it can play files of a USB Drive, Hard Disk Drive, etc., etc.

2. So, No you do not need a Preamp with your current system because the Oppo is a Preamp and the Rachel also has enough control to get your room setup nicely.

Here's what I woud get and how to hook it up:

Decware Rachel option 5 (this will be your master volume control and your source componets will hook up to this (except for the Roku, which will hook up through the Oppo to take advantage of the Oppos DAC and video output processing).

So...

1. Roku HDMI output into the Oppo HDMI input,
2. Oppo HDMI output in your TV's HDMI input,
3. Oppo RCA Stereo outputs (the Red and White ports) into the Rachel's RCA stereo inputs.
4. Set the Rachel's volume as high as possible before clipping and then use the Oppo's remote to control the volume of the source components.

All media including CD's, etc. will played through the Oppo so you will have to turn on the Oppo everytime you watch TV or Listen to music.
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« Last Edit: 08/19/13 at 22:27:16 by beowulf »  
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Rivieraranch
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Re: Anyone there to help?
Reply #41 - 08/19/13 at 22:28:47
 
With the SUPER ZEN and 16 ohm speakers I think at that point you would be best to get the optional SE transformer (6-16 ohms). However with 8 ohm 96 db efficiency you are best to stick with the standard transformer.
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SteveC
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Re: Anyone there to help?
Reply #42 - 08/19/13 at 22:55:04
 
Rose and anyone else who wants background info about DAC's
This tries to answer "what is a DAC and why would anyone want one?"

DAC: Digital to Analog Converter - converts a digital signal to an analog signal.

Digital signal: music represented as 1's and 0's, similar to Morse code.  It can be bits in a computer.  hi and low voltage on a wire.  The microscopic pits or lack of pits on the surface of a CD, which reflect or don't reflect a laser passing by. A digital signal is any information stored/transmitted in 2 states (binary), kind of similar to Morse code.  I'll say "1's and 0's" from here on.

Analog signal: the air vibrations that hit your eardrums are analog pressure waves.  you feel analog vibrations with your hands on the speaker or a nearby wall or window, or in your lungs when loud enough. These are the real musical vibrations as they came from the originating musical instruments. less frequent vibrations are bass notes. more frequent vibrations are treble notes, etc.   An Analog electrical signal on a wire, if you could see it visually, would "vibrate" exactly the way you feel with your hand on the speaker.  The electricity on the wire would oscillate exactly like the window does.  I'll use "vibrations" from here on.


Here's picture showing gray analog wave and red digital samples
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/04/Digital.signal.discret....

the red digital signal has discrete values: 0,4,5,4,3,4,6,7,5 and so on. A sequence of 1's and 0's represents code, similar to Morse code. (ex: 0000 is 0, 0100 is 4, 0101 is 5, so the coded sequence is 000001000101 (0,4,5) Anyway, not necessary to remember this part. Just know that 1's and 0's represent the discrete red value's, which approximate the original vibration.  the DAC tries to reconstruct the vibrations from the discrete values/pulses)

The analog signal is: the gray wave form or vibration.

The DAC coverts the red discrete values into a continuous wave (vibration). converts electrical pulses (codes) into a continuous electrical vibration

The quality of the DAC determines how accurately this gray vibration is produced.

A small digital mp3 player has music in 1's and 0's.  but it has to go through a DAC before it goes out to the headphone jack(speakers), because speakers need the electrical vibration, not the 1's and 0's. (If you've heard the old sound a computer modem makes when it dials and connects to a service provider, that's the sound of pure 1's and 0's. Fax machine is doing the same thing.  digital noise)

DAC quality differences (are multidimensional) and audible to us all. There's lots of DAC quality debate.   The DAC in an mp3 player is cheap and relatively inaccurate. (it's just good enough)

There are many many separate DAC's on the market from $hundreds to many $thousands.  and as many opinions of their quality and value per dollar.

A CD player take's 1's and 0's off a disc (the sequence of pits), and outputs small vibrations (thus an internal DAC had to have been involved).  The quality of the DAC has a lot to do with the price of the CD player.

People who play music files straight from a computer...usually buy an external DAC of their choice.  they feed 1's and 0's from their music files to the dac.  The dac feeds small vibrations to an amplifier.  the amplifier amplifies the vibrations to the needs of the speakers and then you hear those vibrations.  (Decware amps do this will least alteration to those vibrations, so you hear what was originally there)


So, a DAC is a very fundamental device in modern music playback.  most people don't realize they are there or what they do.  People who care to control the quality of their music from source to ears, choose which dac they use. (or buy an excellent CD player, same thing).

to contrast: The only analog sources I can think of that don't need a DAC are cassette tape, reel to reel tape, vinyl records.  The vinyl physically records the vibrations in the grooves.  The magnetic tapes record the vibrations in the magnetic media instead of recording 1'0 and 0's into the magnetic media (There's is a device, a DAT (digital audio tape) that does exactly this, records 1's and 0's into the tape, and must use a DAC for playback))
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« Last Edit: 08/19/13 at 23:27:49 by SteveC »  
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Steve Deckert
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Re: Anyone there to help?
Reply #43 - 08/22/13 at 21:28:35
 
Rose,

Thank you for sticking it out despite not being able to contact us!  I've read over the advise given in this thread and you're in good hands.  With Sarah on maternity leave for 8 weeks this summer there has been several issues with the rest of us trying to pick up the slack and obviously failing at it.  It's not an excuse because as you pointed out, there is no excuse and no one agrees with you on that point more than I.   I am creating office space now to hire more help.  Also I'd be happy to talk with you in person.  With Sarah back in the office checking messages, I'm sure you'll have better luck if you decide to try and call again.

Thanks,

Steve
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Rose
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Re: Anyone there to help?
Reply #44 - 08/22/13 at 22:42:00
 
Steve,
Thank you for your reply. You're right, everybody on the forum has been very helpful. I completely understand that things happen in life. I'm glad I waited it out.  :)
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