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Suggestions 10' Speaker Cables (Read 6527 times)
Lon
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Re: Suggestions 10' Speaker Cables
Reply #60 - 09/21/13 at 00:14:45
 
Well, I have one pair of garden hose sized speaker wire, PS Audio xStream Statement, that I bought at about a third its list cost and that I have to say sounds as good as this Mapleshade, a tad warmer, a tad more full-bodied. I'd use it in my main system as I have in the past but the length is way too short. Great sound. And the Styx are in between the two in diameter. . . great sound. Three really good choices each with their particular strengths.

More than one way to skin a cat I say.

Just hooked the Styx up in my Dad's system and I think they're going to be quite nice there, an improvement over the 16 guage Monster Cable I put in there over ten years ago.
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Douger
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Re: Suggestions 10' Speaker Cables
Reply #61 - 09/21/13 at 01:30:21
 
I was going to suggest that you try 12ga. stranded wire without connectors until you mentioned your Velocity meets that description. Is it feasible for you to remove any connectors from those cables? Otherwise the last I knew Home Depot sells this for .65/ft.
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will
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Re: Suggestions 10' Speaker Cables
Reply #62 - 09/21/13 at 01:31:54
 
Quote:
I wonder if the thin gauge twist helps with that smearing...
I think this is a common theory and I have noticed it in several cables, each making their own attempt at "accuracy" merged with "musicality."

Reality cables uses very specific solid copper with a very particular dielectric, very specific twist pattern, very specific ends. Then loads of listening test using folks with really good ears to refine these things.

For me, they were too clear due to amazing flow by my ear, but with all the right stuff. Great frequency balance with brilliant extension, no sense of smearing, a bit of copper darkness ("warmth")...but really feeling very neutral and transparent for the most part. Finally though, they were a bit hard and cool in the mids for me. "Too good."

Paul at Clearday uses his version of right with solid silver, the right twists that change from one end to the other, just the right ends for transparency and accuracy...I found the shotguns really nice, but for me, there was not enough flow...not enough wire to get the full bass/mid-bass part of the balance, and I did not want to go there for the double shotguns at the time. I bet they are nice though.

Morrow audio uses their version of technological to create the perfectly complete cable...specifically twisted, specific wires and dielectric also, and no notable smearing, nice warmth, the SP6 has softer flow, but good and so on...good, relatively neutral and transparent cables. More musical to me than Realities, but still a little false sounding...seemingly quite good, but not exactly like music.

Styx to me are really nice, especially with 6-10 twists in a ten foot length. I heard this twisting tighten them up, solve some smearing without losing musicality.

Virtue Nirvana...still in my system for now....sort of a cross between Styx and Morrow...Full, deep and musical, the little nod in the Decware direction, and nicely clarified, presumably due to the smaller wire/helix twisting scheme of the probably pretty cheap stranded copper wires...four per connection.

Since I was doing cable rolling to explore them, I was over the spade ends on these, so I ordered some Audioquest silver bananas from music direct. I just got them on one end for now, but this made a nice change, more-or-less as I hoped..the silver clarifying things in a silvery way compared to the gold plated copper spades. NO idea what this does with inductance, resistance or capacitance, but I like what it did to the sound.

This is an interesting thread. I am enjoying it.
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« Last Edit: 09/21/13 at 07:42:04 by will »  

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Lord Soth
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Re: Suggestions 10' Speaker Cables
Reply #63 - 09/21/13 at 02:32:07
 
Yes, this is a wonderful (future) resource for speaker cables.

I'm running a pair of Paul's Clearday double shotgun speaker cables in my system. They are solid silver cables at US$450 ish but the sonics are so good they are worth their "weight in gold".

Despite their solid core silver nature, they got the clarity of solid silver and a nice touch of warmth which is more typical from copper wires.
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tgarden
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Re: Suggestions 10' Speaker Cables
Reply #64 - 09/21/13 at 04:24:42
 
He's not known on this forum, but I've been using Grover Huffman's speaker cables for app. nine years now. He's well known on the Steve Hoffman Music Forums (audio hardware section). A thread on Grover has been running there for close to nine  years now.

Before I found about him, I  was using Mapleshade's most expensive cables.  They were fine, but I feel Grover easily exceeded their best stuff, even with his earlier work.  His life is centered around creating what he feels to be the best interconnect, speaker, and power cables. He's pretty obsessed (for lack of a better word) about cables, and is continually upgrading his work.  He doe not have different price points, he only sells his best creations.
His background was in designing custom tube amps and preamps, but he switched to making cables ten+? years ago. He's using his own tube amp/speaker designs to voice his cables, and has several beta testers who own a variety of gear, both solid state and tube. 

I'm using all Grover wiring in my main system (Torii III-soon to be IV, ZP3, and Steve's new ZSB) and his interconnects and speaker cables within my second system  (ZSM monos and MG944 speakers).

His latest speaker cables, with very pure copper, silver, and aluminum ribbons, with passive carbon nickel shielding, sound just sublime in my two Decware systems.  
They cost $40 per foot for a pair.

He goes to a lot of trouble, fabricating the ribbons himself from pure wire (he has a patent on the cable design) and offers a generous trade-in policy.

He's always upgrading his designs, sort of like Steve, and that can get annoying when you've just bought something and he comes out with a new version...but his trade-in policy on your old cables, is pretty fair.  

You may have to wait a month or two for his cables, as he sells a lot of stuff overseas, but if you're used to waiting for Decware gear, a month or two is a walk in the park.

Yeah, I'm a friend of his, but not that good a friend (I don't get a discount).  I feel his prices are good for the quality.  Who else has $200+ interconnects with custom fabricated low mass terminations?  No off the shelf parts/wire for Grover.

Anyway, one/some of you guys out there should try his speaker cables.  I really doubt you'd regret it.

Mike in Seattle area



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« Last Edit: 09/21/13 at 05:57:21 by tgarden »  
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marky
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Re: Suggestions 10' Speaker Cables
Reply #65 - 09/21/13 at 11:52:00
 
If you`re anything like me and all the acronyms for cable construction, dialectrics, crystaline, six x 9, cryo treated, awg gauges, twist patterns, multiple price structure just leaves the memory banks in reject mode while you look for a one stop cable you might like to peruse the Townshend Isoldas. They`ve made this one sp cbl for donkeys years, no others. Yes a 3mtr pair will be over 1000 US ( you might be able to lose the 20% vat ) but come up not infrequently on e-bay for 1/2 that. I cant compare them to anything but old Rega cables and would agree with the reviews and site description. And they are cryo treated. They generate the bass power from the Decware amps and I have heard the very high sonics from a tube settling in. Everything else is subject to my cartridges performance, which, I have no reason to think their is any shortcomings.
In short, they are up to the task for a clean picture.
That said, if I were now looking for a pair, having not had the Isoldas then a pair of Styx would, by reputation of their amps, be high on the list.
2 ways to avoid a cable binge.
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« Last Edit: 09/21/13 at 11:52:47 by marky »  
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jameskk
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Re: Suggestions 10' Speaker Cables
Reply #66 - 09/21/13 at 12:30:26
 
Anticable, if you can't get a used pair of Decware styx
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« Last Edit: 09/21/13 at 12:31:53 by jameskk »  
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Lonely Raven
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Re: Suggestions 10' Speaker Cables
Reply #67 - 09/21/13 at 17:59:28
 
Quote:
I’m somewhat ashamed to admit that I once fell for some of the ridiculous claims made by some of the boutique wire companies.  There came a day, when I participated in my first volume matched to within  1/10th of a volt measured at the speaker terminals AB/X test, that changed my perspective on the hi-end wire industry game forever.  Yes there is wire that generally has a certain “affect” on the sound, and sometimes the effect is desirable and sometimes not.  And there is a lot of reasonably priced wire that is “accurate” and “neutral”.  A lot of people would be stunned to discover, if given the opportunity to have it demonstrated to them, that typically, the more expensive and “exotic” the design… the more “tailoring” of the sound the wire does.  I thinks it just makes far more sense to use competent wire, based on sound, long-established, electrical parameters that can be had for reasonable costs and spend your hard earned $$ on better components… or the most ignored component of 99% of systems – room acoustics.  You’ll get far more for your $$$.


My hero!   Wink
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will
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Re: Suggestions 10' Speaker Cables
Reply #68 - 09/21/13 at 18:17:38
 
I forgot about anticable. It is all individual, and it was some years ago I tried them, but if I recall correctly, the speaker cables excelled in overall signal flow, but were heavy and dense for me, and in the mids, a little hard edged...lacking in delicacy and texture. Same with their ICs, but to a lesser degree. I think I was comparing some homemade speaker cables made from CAT5 at the time. I kept the ICs but since I got some inexpensive MAC deals for silver, a pair of Decware silver, and made some VHaudio silver recipe ICs, the anticable ICs never stay in.

At the time there were a lot of folks really happy with them, so it could have just been me in my room.

And now I see they have discontinued the speaker cable I tried (single wire), now using more pure copper and twisting smaller wires. And they have several ICs above the ones I have, mine now being entry level with better copper.

So why am I commenting? Anticables got a lot of brilliant talk at the time I tried them from the maker and users, and they were just not that impressive to me. In theory the newer ones should be a notable improvement over the ones I had though. The purer copper and twisting schemes could theoretically solve the issues I had. I would like to hear the newer designs.
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beowulf
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Re: Suggestions 10' Speaker Cables
Reply #69 - 09/21/13 at 20:39:33
 
Quote:
maddog07 said,
what I find quite entertaining at times, is the latest "revelation" in speaker wire or IC's, where the creator has gone to great length and in some cases, expense, to create some hi-tech solution to a problem that has already been solved long, long ago.  Yet they present it as "new", "radical", "revolutionary".  They just seem to take great satisfaction in impressing themselves with their discovery of a solution for a problem that doesn’t exist.  And then they come up with some wild marketing to spin it on the naïve and gullible.  Caveat emptor applies here more than just about anywhere else, with the possible exception of the used car business, and late night infomercials!


This is great insight... And I'm not sure if you've ever read some of the articles on Audioholics such as Debunking the Myth of Speaker Cable Resonance, Audioquest Cable Theories Exposed and Dielectric Absorption in Cables Debunked but they are excellent articles and real engineering tests are done be Gene ... he's not afraid to get into it with cable manufacturers either ... you could say he's on the $h!t list of Audioquest and Transparent to say the least. Grin

Quote:
Douger said,
I was going to suggest that you try 12ga. stranded wire without connectors until you mentioned your Velocity meets that description. Is it feasible for you to remove any connectors from those cables? Otherwise the last I knew Home Depot sells this for .65/ft.


This is not a bad idea ... They are OFC Pure Copper after all and since they are so cheap and I already have 5 sets (I had them in a 5.1 setup a while ago) I could simply cut the bananas off a pair and go straight to bare wire to see if that makes any improvements.  

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marky
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Re: Suggestions 10' Speaker Cables
Reply #70 - 09/23/13 at 22:23:34
 
Johns wire site is back up. http://johnswireshop.com/
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« Last Edit: 09/23/13 at 22:24:04 by marky »  
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beowulf
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Re: Suggestions 10' Speaker Cables
Reply #71 - 10/03/13 at 06:24:01
 
Quote:
tgarden said,
I'm using all Grover wiring in my main system (Torii III-soon to be IV, ZP3, and Steve's new ZSB) and his interconnects and speaker cables within my second system  (ZSM monos and MG944 speakers).


He has one of the biggest followings on Steve Hoffman's forums that I've ever seen.  He must be doing something right!  I've noticed the trend seems to be going towards solid metals with Morrow, Clear Day, etc., but Grover is using ribbons with a combo of different metals ... I wonder how this compares to the others out there.  Grover's are $400 for a 10' pair with your choice of terminations which are slightly cheaper than a pair of Zen Styx.

Anybody hear of Tempo Electric?  They seem to have a nice product:

1. .9999 pure, (solid) silver wire,
2. Jacketed in an oversized PTFE (Teflon) tubing,
3. Oversized tubing = air as the dielectric constant.

Their philosophy is that:

The temper (degree of hardness) is actually more important to good sound than the ultimate degree of purity. Once we tried it, it became immediately clear that the extra soft grade of silver exhibited dramatically less glare and more detail in the upper frequencies then the more commonly available regular or medium temper wire. This is the critical area of the sound spectrum which allows us, as listeners, to perceive the minute aural cues which characterize and differentiate various performance spaces.

That said the very minimum gauge recommended for my setup would be 14 gauge at $684, but highly recommend 12 gauge at $894.  Out of my price range, but they seem like a solid design and get a lot of check marks with the latest trends.
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maddog07
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Re: Suggestions 10' Speaker Cables
Reply #72 - 10/04/13 at 13:17:08
 
Tempo Electric.... same product as Clear Day....

"Foils".... Goertz/Alpha-Core copper and silver foil IC's and speaker cable... they've been making them for years(at least a decade)... along with copper foil inductors...old news... And also the "real deal".  They have been my "references" for about 6-7 years now....
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beowulf
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Re: Suggestions 10' Speaker Cables
Reply #73 - 10/05/13 at 08:31:52
 
Quote:
maddog07 said,
Tempo Electric.... same product as Clear Day....


Wow, I had no idea ... obviously the Clear Day are a WAY better value!
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will
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Re: Suggestions 10' Speaker Cables
Reply #74 - 10/05/13 at 20:42:44
 
Thanks for pointing to the Tempo site Beowulf. Pleasantly informative.

As to being the same as Clearday....I don't know....it may be pretty much the same core material, Tempo (.9999 pure) and Clearday (.999 pure) soft annealed silver, but I am guessing the way they use their wire may be enough to make them sound different.

They use different gauges...Clearday's appear to be one-to-many 24 AWG wires, more wires for bigger cables, with twists that increase toward the speaker end (I believe I recall this). Tempo's appear to be 16-10 AWG individual strands (depending on amp power) twisting the pair in what looks like a relatively close twist, but not as tight as many.

Individual wire size and twist patterns seem to be big design factors with many cable makers, and their conclusions vary quite a lot it seems. Some prefer two larger wires and some many twisted smaller ones, with a lot in between (helix, double helix etc), and ribbons...a whole different thing. I found pretty notable sound changes with different twist schemes with my Styx.

Since both seem to employ a concept of air dielectric, this may not matter much, but Clearday uses PET (Polyethylene) insulation (providing air dielectric in a way I could not identify on the site), and Tempo uses oversized PTFE (Teflon) with much talk of air space. I do find it interesting that Clearday recommends a fairly long breakin since many atribute longer breaking with dielectric while air dielectric is mentioned in Clearday reviews.

Clearday's largest cable, the Double Shotguns appear to use 4 - 24 AWG cable runs per terminal. This is equivalent to 18 gauge. Tempos smallest cable is bigger, a single strand 16 AWG (other than the one they recommend for tweeters in a by-wire cable). So though not recommended by Tempo except for amps below 19 watts, a larger equivalent 16 gauge cable in oversized teflon looks like it would cost about 468 for a 3 meter unterminated pair.... 8 foot terminated Double Shotguns are 450. Don't know about 10 feet, but presumably the Tempo would be a little cheaper.

Hard to say how they would sound without direct comparison, but I guess there are enough variants to make these cables sound different.
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« Last Edit: 10/05/13 at 20:47:18 by will »  

Mac mini, Tranquility DAC, modded Oppo 83, TORII MkIV, MorrowAudio SP7 cables, HR-1s...VHaudio DIY, Grover, MAC ICs...PI Audio Uberbuss...PI, VHaudio DIY, Neotech DIY, Cryoparts DIY power cables, HerbiesAudioLab feet and tube dampers
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