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Pushing the envelope? (Read 1972 times)
jsm71
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Pushing the envelope?
06/03/13 at 21:06:04
 
Greetings.  I am not an owner but had my first live taste of the Zen Torii on my system yesterday thanks to a local friend and rabid owner who was as curious as I was about driving my speakers with his amp.

I have Janszen zA2.1 hybrid electrostatic speakers whose sensitivity rating is 87db.  The designer (David Janszen) claims his speakers are easy to drive but this rating seemed a stretch for only 25 watts.  OK, both of us were blown away with the sound differences we heard compared to my solid stage Sanders Magtech amp.  The sonic effects of the Zen Torii were quite a bit more musical.  My Magtech is probably very foreign to this crowd as it puts out 900 watts/4ohms.  My prior speakers were Magnepan 1.7s which drank power like a vampire.

When we asked for good volume from the amp we got it without any complaint or audible distortion.  We were having fun.  After about 2 hours of pushing the envelope it was time to switch back the amps so my friend could leave.  As I bent close to the Zen I could clearly hear some tube ringing.  I didn't do the original hook up so I can't attest if this was present at the beginning.  We clearly didn't hear any of this at the listening seat even with the music off.

Did we push this amp too hard, too long, or is some faint tube ringing part of the package?  The sound from the speakers did not containt any bad artifacts.  This ringing was a physical noise.  I loved the amp but am wondering if my original fear of asking too much with my speakers was correct.  BTW, I normally don't listen as loudly as we were.  My friend likes his music firm and kept asking to bump it up.  His speakers are 89db sensitive and he listens loud all day.  I could have been happy with far less volume.  

Do other owners have speakers with sensitivity ratings at or about 87db?
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Lon
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Re: Pushing the envelope?
Reply #1 - 06/03/13 at 21:30:44
 
Sounds as if there were some really good sounds there! The Torii is a very impressive amp, I love mine!

If the amp has the Ruby rectifiers that often come with the amp, that ringing sound could well be coming from them, and is nothing to worry about as far as power output or stress on the amp, they just seem constructed to make that quiet ringing sound. That was my very first thought when you spoke of the ringing sound, that it was coming from Ruby 5U4G bottle shaped rectifiers.
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Rivieraranch
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Re: Pushing the envelope?
Reply #2 - 06/03/13 at 22:17:09
 
The rectifiers I am using in my TORII MK III also exhibit a bit of ringing, not noticeable when you step away from the amp.
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DECWARE CSP2+, TABOO MK III; SE84CKC; HR1; TRAPEZIUM DESKTOP SPEAKERS; TECHNICS SL1200MK5 turntable; Ah! Njoe Tjoeb CD player; MARANTZ 2226B, 2216B receivers; SENNHEISER HD-580 headphones
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marky
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Re: Pushing the envelope?
Reply #3 - 06/03/13 at 23:28:22
 
My ML e/stats are 89db and reccomended power is 20-400 watts.
My bridged Decware amps are rated at 12 watts max.
Digital and tape sources can go very loud while remaining stable
Phono input is getting less volts but even thats too loud  at 75% and no distortion. Pushing it further and you get swallowd up as the notes get so big and are projected past you, and ( and I`m not squeamish )) the bass being pumped can leave you with ringing ears.
I`ve taken all the silicon dampers off now, didin`t think I needed them, and cant say I`ve heard and tubes ringing while playing. I haven`t had Rubys in.
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jsm71
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Re: Pushing the envelope?
Reply #4 - 06/04/13 at 02:16:06
 
Using ML stats with half the output of the Zen Torii MKIII is perhaps more impressive than my "test".  I am quite familiar with Logans as a planar fan and they are not that easy of a load.  A lot of ML owners in fact use the very same Magtech amp I own because it regulates the voltage across varying impedances, a design object for Sanders' own ESL speakers.

I'm glad mild tube ringing has been observed by others.  I was hoping this was indeed a "feature" of one of the tube types and nothing we did.  My friend wasn't worried when I pointed it out but he didn't say he had heard it before.

The great sound the two of us observed got us both thinking.  I am more driven to maximize sound quality than losing my hearing over excessive SPLs.  My friend will never swap out the Zen Torii for another amp but may now be interested in pursuing my Janszens.  Funny how we both have something to consider.

I also use a Cary SLP 98P active preamp, a tube model driven by 6SN7GT tubes.  The combination with the Zen was marvelous.
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maddog07
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Re: Pushing the envelope?
Reply #5 - 06/04/13 at 19:23:25
 
color another person impressed... I too discovered kind of by accident that my Torii MKIII will drive my Martin Logan Vista's quite well.  I'm stunned and amazed actually at how well it drives them and how good it sounds.
 
I bought the Torii to drive my first DIY, full-range, crossoverless, high-efficiency speakers(a work in progress).  
I have a few conventional class A/B amps that I typically use to drive the Vista's, but thought "what the heck"... let's strap the Torii to the ML's and see how it sounds..!!!  stunned and amazed gentlepersons.. stunned & amazed is all I can say.  Gets plently loud and sounds plenty good too.....
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Decware Torii MK3, Wyred4Sound DAC2, Theta Digital Miles, Emotiva UMC-1, Emotiva XPA-5, Aesthetix Calypso, Marsh P200b, Martin Logan Vista, Audio Nirvana 12" Alnico's, PS Audio PW P5, Goertz, Kimber, Nordost and DIY wires, PSA pwr cords, I'm outta room..
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jsm71
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Posts: 107
Re: Pushing the envelope?
Reply #6 - 06/05/13 at 19:19:25
 
I asked David Janszen about his sensitivity rating and he indicated that 87db was from a prior build generation.  Mine incorporate most of his latest changes.  I thought the output from this amp suggested a higher sensitivity.  I'm glad that he confirmed that.  He said I'm more in the 90 to 93db range depending on measurment approach.  This paring seems far more attractive now.  Perhaps I'll get in line. Smiley
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« Last Edit: 06/06/13 at 01:03:49 by jsm71 »  
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